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View Full Version : Whats with all the fancy vehicles?



BanthaPoodoo
12-05-2007, 02:49 PM
OK, as far as timelines go, all the fancy sleek stuff came out way before Lukes time, but yet in Lukes time all his stuff is all blocky & crappy looking.


Shouldnt the vehicles in the prequels be even more crappy & outdated compared to the stuff in the OT?

Sure, special effects are much better now, but come on, everybody knows that styling is evolutionary, there werent really round cars way back in the day, everything was a huge box. Then it got rounder & rounder.


So what gives?

JimJamBonds
12-05-2007, 02:54 PM
I'd say the Empire didn't give a hoot about being fancy they just wanted machines that would do the job. The colors are more drab as are the vehicles.

If you look at our cars they got bigger during the '90's with suv's being king but they seem to be getting smaller again.

BanthaPoodoo
12-05-2007, 03:07 PM
I agree old Palps could give two ***** about what his TIE Fighters looked like, or that his AT-AT's were Rectangles on stilts.

But ol George Lucas tried to seemingly stick as many vehicle references as he could in the prequels so that you would recognize the evolution of said vehicle.

Take for example the ARC-170. Clearly it was meant to portray a much older style X-Wing. They even say in the films "Lock S-foils in attack position" just like the OT.

But how does a sleek ship with a really great design go to a boxy looking thing?

Shouldnt it be the other way around?

Now dont get me wrong. I absolutely love the PT & the OT even with all the messups & plot holes that exist in the PT.

But this one thing has bothered me since day one.

Neuroleptic
12-05-2007, 03:29 PM
I always chalked the N-1 Naboo star fighters up to the culture of the planet. It made sence the naboo would put a lot of emphasis on what there stuff looked like.

The difference between the empire and the new republic might be that the stuff in the empire may be newer, but it may be mass produced on a much larger scale, thus being cheaper. The Empire's stuff may even work better and be stronger. But its all biult for a much larger military and probably needed to be pushed out much quicker. So maybe they went for efficency over style? That's the best I could come up with for them anyway.

Now, the X wing and the ARC-170 . . . that one is a bit harder to try to justify. Perhaps they were made by the same company, but are for different purposes? The ARC-170 almost reminds me more of a B-17 than a fighter with all its gunners it has. Maybe the X wing is bulkier because it has more armor? Or, maybe even the X-wing (and deffinetly the Y-wing) predate the ARC-170? The rebellion is sorta working with whatever they can get there hands on after all, and maybe the best they could do were old fighters. We don't see anything that looks newer until Return of the Jedi, so maybe that's the case? That's the best I can come up with.

2-1B
12-05-2007, 07:29 PM
It was a more fanciful time, so more fanciful vehicles would make sense.

Plus the OT is pretty tightly confined, we don't see much of the galaxy as the films focus on the conflict against some pretty remote backdrops. Bespin had those groovy orange cloud cars which look out of place compared to other OT vehicles but for the environment they are in, it makes complete sense.

decadentdave
12-05-2007, 07:38 PM
I think Ridley Scott said it best when he made Blade Runner. He said, "The future is not new... it's OLD."

bigbarada
12-06-2007, 03:08 PM
Sure, special effects are much better now, but come on, everybody knows that styling is evolutionary, there werent really round cars way back in the day, everything was a huge box. Then it got rounder & rounder.


So what gives?

That's not really true. Look at the attached pictures: The first is a beer delivery truck from the 1930s, the second is a semi from the 1970s and the last is a modern semi. So you can see that "aerodynamic design" is not a recent thing.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
12-06-2007, 03:41 PM
I thought I read/heard that they did this intentionally, to make things start out looking sleek since there was more care put into the design (in the SW universe) and then as times changed they had to "stamp out" the ships so to speak so the look of the design wasn't as important. I know it was supposed to correllate to a certain period in time - I think before WWII, but I'm not sure - but Bigbarada's pictures showed that this has happened in real life.

BanthaPoodoo
12-06-2007, 04:46 PM
That's not really true. Look at the attached pictures: The first is a beer delivery truck from the 1930s, the second is a semi from the 1970s and the last is a modern semi. So you can see that "aerodynamic design" is not a recent thing.

Is the first truck a production or concept vehicle?

bigbarada
12-06-2007, 05:09 PM
Is the first truck a production or concept vehicle?

Not sure, so let's try it again with production cars. The first car is a 1961 Chrysler 300, the second is a Dodge Aries K Car from the 1980s, the last one is the modern Chrysler 300.

You can see the trend. Design asthetics rarely progress in a straight line. Like everything else, they kind of cycle back and forth.

JediTricks
12-07-2007, 11:12 PM
If you look at our cars they got bigger during the '90's with suv's being king but they seem to be getting smaller again.Yeah, but we've had cars for around a hundred years, their galaxy had spaceships for centuries before we got to the OT and prequels, they should have gone through their various design sillinesses before finally falling into patterns of what REALLY worked long before we got to the PT. My car from '93 doesn't look particularly different from cars from today - you stretch that timeline out by a factor of 8 and there's no way the PT should be so different from the OT. It's all about opulence, Lucas' specifically.



That's not really true. Look at the attached pictures: The first is a beer delivery truck from the 1930s, the second is a semi from the 1970s and the last is a modern semi. So you can see that "aerodynamic design" is not a recent thing.Except the aerodynamics on that Labatts truck are a load of crap, there's no understanding of aerodynamics in play there, it's just to LOOK like it's sleek and goes fast. It's pretending to be an element of the rocket age, while that last shot with the Mack truck actually uses real science to make it what the original could only dream of. At the time of that old old truck, labor was cheap enough that they could knock out rounded pieces by hand, but as labor prices went up, it became cheaper to do stamped sheet metal which at first looked boxy, but in the last 15 years has gotten advanced enough to do stuff that looks rounded, only this time they have the tools to actually make it the aerodynamics they once only pretended to have. That's evolutionary.

Granted, there were a few guys at the time that Labatts truck was put out that DID understand these things and performed the complex mathmatics to design these things, but they were either the Wright Brothers or their ideas were deemed too expensive at the time (the flying wing was properly mathed out in the '50s but couldn't be realistically produced until the '80s).



I thought I read/heard that they did this intentionally, to make things start out looking sleek since there was more care put into the design (in the SW universe) and then as times changed they had to "stamp out" the ships so to speak so the look of the design wasn't as important. I know it was supposed to correllate to a certain period in time - I think before WWII, but I'm not sure - but Bigbarada's pictures showed that this has happened in real life.That's Lucas' suggestion, but I dunno if it jives. You look at vehicles in the era after WW1 when there was a vague understanding of rockets and aerodynamics, and the US was flush with cash, and the vehicles are ridiculously over the top with that swoopy stuff. Then the country went into the depression and cars got more simple, but still tried to cling to those fancy lines. In WW2, the vehicles went in 2 directions - fliers evolved quickly into new shapes and eventually jets but still clung to the old lines, while land vehicles became easier to produce and more utilitarian, so they were eventually designed more boxy and task-oriented. But you look at footage from WW2 and they're using more than 1 era of vehicle in those battles (and the Germans were using converted pre-era vehicles to start their war). And then after the war it went crazy again, so it's not like it perfectly tracks.


Not sure, so let's try it again with production cars. The first car is a 1961 Chrysler 300, the second is a Dodge Aries K Car from the 1980s, the last one is the modern Chrysler 300.

You can see the trend. Design asthetics rarely progress in a straight line. Like everything else, they kind of cycle back and forth.The trend there isn't for the same task though. The '61 Chrysler is coming out of the '50s opulence era of huge, rocket-age design aesthetics and the ability to throw money around. The '80s K-cars were all designed to be interchangeable LEGO factory items for the masses as money went down. And the modern 300 is a repurposed 1-generation-back Mercedes body dolled up to recharge sagging interest in the line through sex appeal and low cost, and using current science making its aerodynamics possible and its curved parts sexier while remaining cheap.

decadentdave
12-07-2007, 11:25 PM
Yeah, but we've had cars for around a hundred years, their galaxy had spaceships for centuries before we got to the OT and prequels, they should have gone through their various design sillinesses before finally falling into patterns of what REALLY worked long before we got to the PT. My car from '93 doesn't look particularly different from cars from today - you stretch that timeline out by a factor of 8 and there's no way the PT should be so different from the OT. It's all about opulence, Lucas' specifically.


As Kenobi had said, it was a more civilized age. The Republic was very opulent. Once the Empire had came about the grandeur and opulence became superfluous and more militaristic. The rebels had to make do with whatever they they could muster which is why the Empire always had much better looking ships and vehicles, a byproduct of the military forces during the Clone Wars, and the rebels had junky looking transport ships and obsolete fighters built by Incom that were decades old. A civilized society is bound to be more opulent and elegant, an uncivilized one with the presence of war, does not. I look at the OT as looking like the Middle East does during the Iraq war... bombed out to hell.

El Chuxter
12-08-2007, 01:23 AM
It would've been forgiveable if ROTS showed a lot of brand spanking new Y-Wings flying around. To be these outdated bombers, they don't see any action in the prequels. And how did they wind up in such poor repair in such a short time?

JediTricks
12-08-2007, 01:37 AM
But the timeline is too short, you've got the opulent vehicles of the PT and then the vehicles of the OT which are just the opposite in just 18 years. Where are the older vehicles that are left over? Oh right, the Falcon's old, the Y-wing's old... yet somehow this ancient society sees those as old designs in a matter of weeks? No sense does that make. Even in our short-term society, we have cars from 25, 30 years back that intermingle with the fancy new ones. But the Falcon's an "old" vehicle yet has NOTHING in common with the designs from just 18 years before? That doesn't track.

In the middle east, the rebels put machine guns on Toyota trucks which is said to be VERY effective. Are you saying that the truck - minus machine gun - somehow would stand out in a crowd of other cars on any US street? Of course not. Maybe if we were talking about Cuba, but the reason their cars look old is because they were embargoed 50 years ago, not 18.


edit: sorry chux, didn't see your reply come in, mine is also a reply to dave's post, not yours obviously.

decadentdave
12-08-2007, 02:03 AM
It would've been forgiveable if ROTS showed a lot of brand spanking new Y-Wings flying around. To be these outdated bombers, they don't see any action in the prequels. And how did they wind up in such poor repair in such a short time?

Just because the Republic didn't have them in service doesn't mean they weren't being used on other systems in the galaxy. The rebels could have acquired them through a trade or an alliance with an outlying world and I'm sure there are many battles that take place between ROTS and ANH. Look at the Falcon and the Tantive IV, they are brand new in ROTS and get beat to crap before ANH. They've been in many battles. Several, I think. :D I'm sure there will be some attempt at an explanation in the TV show.