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View Full Version : Oldest Domain Name Company Stealing Searched Domains



JediTricks
01-16-2008, 08:30 PM
Network Solutions, the company that was first on the scene to offer domain names when the internet went public, is now stealing domain name ideas searched at the site: http://blog.domaintools.com/2008/01/network-solutions-steals-domain-ideas-confirmed/

This is a big deal, it means if you check through NetSol the availability for an idea you have for a website and it's not taken but you don't buy it immediately, they snatch it up, make it public, get revenues off it, then sell it 4 days later. It's extremely sleazy.

So be warned all you potential webmasters, if you want to search for a domain name, keep it far away from NetSol's whois system.

bigbarada
01-16-2008, 09:17 PM
What about GoDaddy? If you search for a domain name there, but don't purchase it, would they be able to get ahold of it?

JediTricks
01-16-2008, 09:42 PM
Not that I know of, in fact they sued the company that owns NetSol for similar tactics a few years ago which got NetSol in trouble with ICANN (the corporation that manages domain name/IP address registration, they took it over from the US government).

stillakid
01-16-2008, 10:00 PM
I've always been VERY confused over who exactly controls domain name registry. At one time, I had two domain names...one with Network Solutions and the other with a cheaper registry company, or so I thought. When I wanted to move/renew the second domain name onto Network Solutions, I could've sworn that everything was routed through Network Solutions anyway, no matter who you bought the name from.

Anyway, it's never made a lick of sense to me which is why I just registered with Network Solutions and have my websites hosted through them. The more I tried to figure it all out, the more confusing it got. I'm sure they do that on purpose.

bigbarada
01-16-2008, 10:35 PM
It's all very strange and mysterious. A small group of businessmen controls the whole internet and there are something like 13 super-servers around the world that direct all internet traffic on the planet. At least that's what I learned in college. I don't know if the identity of these men is even public knowledge, but they're not elected officials or government leaders, they're just businessmen who seemed to be in the right place at the right time to position themselves to control the whole deal.

2-1B
01-16-2008, 11:13 PM
is www.clownpenis.fart still available ? :confused:

CaptainSolo1138
01-16-2008, 11:14 PM
is www.clownpenis.fart still available ? :confused:Never will a day come when that is not funny.

2-1B
01-16-2008, 11:25 PM
Yeah, Jim Jam and I have been trying to run that into the ground for almost a decade...we still find it funny.

The 'Xir
01-16-2008, 11:39 PM
It's all very strange and mysterious. A small group of businessmen controls the whole internet and there are something like 13 super-servers around the world that direct all internet traffic on the planet. At least that's what I learned in college. I don't know if the identity of these men is even public knowledge, but they're not elected officials or government leaders, they're just businessmen who seemed to be in the right place at the right time to position themselves to control the whole deal.


And here all this time I thought Al Gore was still in control of and running the whole thing! Go figure! ;)

stillakid
01-17-2008, 12:19 AM
And here all this time I thought Al Gore was still in control of and running the whole thing! Go figure! ;)

Nah. Bush is in charge of the Internets.

bigbarada
01-17-2008, 01:12 AM
And here all this time I thought Al Gore was still in control of and running the whole thing! Go figure! ;)

Well, my professor told us that he couldn't confirm the identities of the men who ran the internet, but some very reliable sources revealed that Elvis, JFK and Hitler are involved somehow and one of those super-servers is built from the wreckage of the Roswell UFO. :ninja:

:D:D:D

plasticfetish
01-17-2008, 01:40 AM
Well, it isn't exactly "stealing" is it, if nobody owns a particular domain name? More like speculating...

El Chuxter
01-17-2008, 02:14 AM
I'm convinced that Garry Shandling is behind it all.

stillakid
01-17-2008, 08:36 AM
Well, it isn't exactly "stealing" is it, if nobody owns a particular domain name? More like speculating...

Truuuuuuueee, but... smarmy, nonetheless.

I'd liken it to if Hasbro released an exclusive and only let loyal collectors know about it. Say it cost $100. BUT, they don't sell it right away but instead "hold it" for everyone to get a look at and they offer it to collectors for a special "hold price" of $500. But if everyone waits, then they can have it for the $100. Then, on the last day, they also let scalpers know about it too. So then, when it is "available," the scalpers who have that "out the backdoor deal" manage to get it. Of course they don't really care about the thing itself, so they instantly put it on sale again, only this time for an inflated price.

bigbarada
01-17-2008, 02:49 PM
Well, it isn't exactly "stealing" is it, if nobody owns a particular domain name? More like speculating...

Well, it's not stealing someone's property, but it is stealing their idea. Which isn't really illegal, but it is devious and underhanded. Similar to someone taking the idea for a new invention and getting it patented before the inventor gets a chance to.

Another parallel would be a TV studio asking for viewers to send in ideas for new TV shows, then passing those ideas off as their own without giving any credit to the people who originally came up with it.

JediTricks
01-17-2008, 03:58 PM
I've always been VERY confused over who exactly controls domain name registry. At one time, I had two domain names...one with Network Solutions and the other with a cheaper registry company, or so I thought. When I wanted to move/renew the second domain name onto Network Solutions, I could've sworn that everything was routed through Network Solutions anyway, no matter who you bought the name from.

Anyway, it's never made a lick of sense to me which is why I just registered with Network Solutions and have my websites hosted through them. The more I tried to figure it all out, the more confusing it got. I'm sure they do that on purpose.Until the late '90s, NetSol was the only domain name registrar, but after that the field opened up and there became lots and lots of them. NetSol now sends out (physical) mailings letting you know when your domain name is about to expire when you've bought it from OTHER companies, the intention being you're fooled into thinking they're an authority on the matter and you'll end up transferring your domain name management to them. But no, it doesn't all go through NetSol, they just want you to think it does.

Each registrar sends its information into the web on their own, they answer to ICANN but they register and manage your domain name themselves, and propagate their domain names into the web from their own systems.



Well, it isn't exactly "stealing" is it, if nobody owns a particular domain name? More like speculating...It's stealing your ideas, they claim they let you search to see if your idea has already been used, but what they don't tell you is that if it hasn't, they're gonna take it and "domain taste" it and make money off it and probably sell it to some domain selling scalper who has the resources to get in on the sale before you even realize you've been hosed.

I see it as a violation of the whois service, you're not searching the database to give them ideas on what to put up, you're searching it to decide how to form your own website model.

The 'Xir
01-17-2008, 05:02 PM
I see it as a violation of the whois service, you're not searching the database to give them ideas on what to put up, you're searching it to decide how to form your own website model.

Your right JT!, but on a moral basis. I know Im no legal expert by any means but to my limited knowledge their is nothing legally ilegal about what their doing. It's their website, they own that and the contorl of information on it! You have a choice not to use their website.
Unless you were to actually apply for IPR's(intellectual property rights), on the "idea" of a domain name(which I also am not 100% positive if you can even do that) and then search the domain name through NetSol's search database, and as a result they "stole" the idea(you own through IPR's) before you actually purchased it, you wouldnt have a legal leg to stand on!

Not unless their is some sort of Organization or House sub-committee that actually monitors these type of business practices and you would have to bring the matter to and eventually before them in order to establish some sort of unethical busines practice NetSol is commiting(which it is), but they bank on the fact that your average John Q citizen isnt going to go through all that! Corporate Bastards! :twisted:

stillakid
01-17-2008, 06:20 PM
Another parallel would be a TV studio asking for viewers to send in ideas for new TV shows, then passing those ideas off as their own without giving any credit to the people who originally came up with it.

That sh** happens all the time, only they don't want anything in writing. Pitches are verbal for a reason.

I've heard similar for musicians who "pitch" new songs to established Producers. They hum it or play the hook in the office then wind up hearing those notes on some future song months later.

If there's a buck to be made, there's some smarmy SOB out there who won't think twice about F-in you over for it.

Mad Slanted Powers
01-17-2008, 09:15 PM
Rather than ask them if a domain is available, wouldn't it make sense to try typing it into the browser? These days, there are plenty of sites that are just domain parking, but sometimes I come up with something that doesn't work. If I wanted to register a domain, I would try and register one of those. If I got to register it and find out it's taken, then I didn't really lose anything. If it is not taken, then I should get it.

JediTricks
01-18-2008, 02:56 PM
Your right JT!, but on a moral basis. I know Im no legal expert by any means but to my limited knowledge their is nothing legally ilegal about what their doing. It's their website, they own that and the contorl of information on it! You have a choice not to use their website.Legally they're in murky waters but it's still being figured out. As I see it, until they make it abundantly clear what the WHOIS search does before you use it, they are misrepresenting the tool by inviting people in to search for domain name ideas and stealing the ideas as they do so.


Unless you were to actually apply for IPR's(intellectual property rights), on the "idea" of a domain name(which I also am not 100% positive if you can even do that) and then search the domain name through NetSol's search database, and as a result they "stole" the idea(you own through IPR's) before you actually purchased it, you wouldnt have a legal leg to stand on!It may even violate copyright law though, you "wrote" that idea out when you typed it into the WHOIS database search query and they took it away from you as a method of extortion - now we have your idea, pay us the $35 registration fee ($20+ higher than some other registrars) or we sell your idea to a domain scalper.


Not unless their is some sort of Organization or House sub-committee that actually monitors these type of business practices and you would have to bring the matter to and eventually before them in order to establish some sort of unethical busines practice NetSol is commiting(which it is), but they bank on the fact that your average John Q citizen isnt going to go through all that! Corporate Bastards! :twisted:That's the real problem, the government doesn't really know what to do with this stuff, it actually can take longer to have educational hearings for a judge to understand what a domain name is than the actual trial (not kidding, it's happened several times, and most times the judge still doesn't get it).



Rather than ask them if a domain is available, wouldn't it make sense to try typing it into the browser? These days, there are plenty of sites that are just domain parking, but sometimes I come up with something that doesn't work. If I wanted to register a domain, I would try and register one of those. If I got to register it and find out it's taken, then I didn't really lose anything. If it is not taken, then I should get it.No, some domains are owned but not pointed ANYWHERE, so you can type it and it'll not show up, yet still be owned. Also, if you try to register an owned domain, some registrars will ban you for trying to steal it (basically, domain name registration is far too easy to steal, some registrars aren't careful enough and sell already-owned domains out from under people by accident simply because someone else ordered it). Also, sometimes a domain is owned but abandoned and by searching WHOIS, you can find out when it's expiring and if it's worth waiting out - I've done that (some registrars have a domain-waiting preorder service).

The 'Xir
01-18-2008, 06:22 PM
It may even violate copyright law though, you "wrote" that idea out when you typed it into the WHOIS database search query and they took it away from you as a method of extortion - now we have your idea, pay us the $35 registration fee ($20+ higher than some other registrars) or we sell your idea to a domain scalper.

As I said I'm no legal expert and although your hearts in the right place and I agree with you overall, you are wrong on this point. There is no binding arbitration in the use of their website or any legal precedence that protects the words you type on their website or anywhere else online for that matter.
As and only as an American the best you can hope for is that your words are protected by 'Freedom of Speech' unless of course your spoutting off about how you want to kill the President or something, which Im sure just by me typing that just now, Im sure there is some watchdog group looking at this content as your reading this! On a social level the Internet is still regarded as the last truely free democratic exchange of Ideas. However each "online" person enjoys(or is supressed by) the same laws that govern the country they live in. For example we as americans cant go as far as typing that we want to kill the President before the FBI and HLS officers raid our house, but in some other countries their own watchdog groups might report to their government that you support or agree with some political group, faction or individual, deemed as an enemy of state. Or something even more stupid like just the fact that your a woman, you cant use it at all! Sounds preposterous but I wouldnt be suprised!
However back to the main point, just like IPR's you would have to legally apply for AND BE GRANTED ownership of, the words you type, a domain name, a book, or whatever; through IPR's, Copyrights, or trademark laws in order to actually bring a case against; a person, business/corporation, or any other entity you feel has victimized you in some way. Now you can look at it as a freedom of "online" protection or a suppression of "online" democracy, but in this instance it's the same laws that you enjoy as an "offline" American. :cross-eye

The 'Xir
01-18-2008, 06:41 PM
Actually, i got to thinking about it, and as I said before because they own the website and control the information on it, and you have the freedom of choice not to use their website if you so chose; they actually do own the words you type into that search query! Working on SSG as long as you have you should know this JT! Now SSG may not, but alot of websites have that right in their 'rights of use' agreement when you register with them. It ususally states something to the fact that when you agree to use their website, any or all content you supply becomes the sole ownership or property of "said" website! Doesnt SSG have something like this?

bigbarada
01-18-2008, 08:39 PM
Actually, i got to thinking about it, and as I said before because they own the website and control the information on it, and you have the freedom of choice not to use their website if you so chose; they actually do own the words you type into that search query! Working on SSG as long as you have you should know this JT! Now SSG may not, but alot of websites have that right in their 'rights of use' agreement when you register with them. It ususally states something to the fact that when you agree to use their website, any or all content you supply becomes the sole ownership or property of "said" website! Doesnt SSG have something like this?

So, does that mean that SirSteve and JT own all of the ideas posted on this forum?:eek: I knew I shouldn't have posted my Doss Bolder character.:(

;)

JediTricks
01-20-2008, 12:21 AM
It's not a stated protected right, but since you're not entering data for public consumption it's not owned by them either merely because you typed it in their search tool. Just because you wrote your idea on a McDonalds napkin while sitting in a McDonalds restaurant doesn't mean the idea is now the property of Ronald McDonald. In fact, nowhere on their search page is any mention made of this "service", the TOS for the page is all about not using it in a mass-data-gathering manner, and the description on the tool says:

Find out who registered a domain name and view additional registration and Web site data with Network Solutions enhanced WHOIS database. WHOIS allows you to search across multiple registrar databases to give you registration information on millions of domain names, regardless of where they are registered. Our comprehensive WHOIS search results report gives you registration and expiration dates, contact information (if public) for the registrant and, if available, a thumbnail of the Web site home page with traffic ranking, meta descriptions, keywords and more.

Unless directly and expressly agreed upon prior to transmission, ownership of author's material transmitted to and posted by a website is supposed to remain with the author, and in fact in a forum situation such as this, the courts have found that the owner of the website cannot be held responsible for the author's material should it be violative (there's a little more to it than that and it is fairly untested at this point, but there is precedent). Just because the author has not registered his ideas with the government does not mean they are not copyrighted.




Actually, i got to thinking about it, and as I said before because they own the website and control the information on it, and you have the freedom of choice not to use their website if you so chose; they actually do own the words you type into that search query! Working on SSG as long as you have you should know this JT! Now SSG may not, but alot of websites have that right in their 'rights of use' agreement when you register with them. It ususally states something to the fact that when you agree to use their website, any or all content you supply becomes the sole ownership or property of "said" website! Doesnt SSG have something like this?I dunno, didn't you read the agreement when you joined? There probably is, but there are 2 distinct differences here:
A) you "signed" that agreement when you clicked the "I agree to these terms" box during registration, which NetSol does not employ for searching;
-and-
B) you are talking about registered users posting information for forums dissemination, which is wholly different than non-registered users using a WHOIS search tool.






BB, I don't own the site, I just work here, leave me out of that. :p

The 'Xir
01-20-2008, 03:23 AM
So, does that mean that SirSteve and JT own all of the ideas posted on this forum?:eek: I knew I shouldn't have posted my Doss Bolder character.:(

;)


See, we got blind sided BB! We should have know that this was just all a front for their villanous ambitions to take over the world! :twisted:

"EHHXCELLENT!"

bigbarada
01-20-2008, 03:42 AM
All the pieces are finally starting to fit together.... I bet "SirSteve" and "JediTricks" are not even their real names. I feel like such a tool.:ninja:

lol

The 'Xir
01-20-2008, 04:02 AM
I dunno, didn't you read the agreement when you joined? There probably is, but there are 2 distinct differences here:
A) you "signed" that agreement when you clicked the "I agree to these terms" box during registration, which NetSol does not employ for searching;
-and-
B) you are talking about registered users posting information for forums dissemination, which is wholly different than non-registered users using a WHOIS search tool.


IDK! JT, although I think I should clarify the word own! It's not like they actually leagally own the material you submit as their own words or something they created, but because they do own the website and the information that is on it, they "own" slash control how that information once submitted is used and distibuted throughout their website and can do with it what they will. Unless of course it is actually and legally owned by someone through copyright, trademarks or IPR's!

For example, Say someone like Tom Clancy came out with a new book(that hasn't been released yet, and for some ungodly reason(no offense Steve), say even he was drunk and, decided he wanted to give the public a sample of his new book, and inturn posted the entire book here onto the SSG forums! That post(and post only) is the property of SSG! Now, SSG can use that information pretty much anyway they want! they can invite people to read Tom Clancy's brand new book on this website to build traffic, they can take lines from it and put it in SSG banners whatever! How you ask? Well Clancy gave up his rights to the material, as to how SSG uses it(on their website only) because he willfully submitted it to you! However, it doesnt give SSG free-reign over the material because it's copyrighted! Which means the main thing that SSG can't do is profit off of it! You couldn't remove the post to then charge people to download it, as I said you could use it in SSG banners to promote your own website, but you couldn't say, charge other advertisers to use parts of the book in their banners they will advertise on SSG. You couldn't like sell it to Access Hollywood or anything, you know, things like that!

Furthermore, even if he was drunk, or just used that as his excuse as to why he posted it here and wanted the material back or removed from this site, he would find it would be a very difficult process! It probably would never make it to a court of law, and would end very nicely in SSG's favor as an out of court settlement! Some agreement(:greedy:SSG:greedy:) would be reached by both parties to have the material removed! Basicaly although it's his copyrighted work, he cant dictate to you how you run your website when he willfuly submitted the material!

Now, you might argue about leaked movie scripts and how sites have been court ordered to remove them from their site! Well that is different, because usually that is an instance where someone who works on the movie/project has "stolen" the material and leaked it onto the Internet, and no willfull submission was made by the actual owners of the material, just someone who works for the owners!

Man, maybe I should have listened to my mother and became a lawyer! Although my head feels like it's starting to spin! :cross-eye

JediTricks
01-24-2008, 10:24 PM
Unless of course it is actually and legally owned by someone through copyright, trademarks or IPR's!That's the point I was making which you were arguing with before, the moment you write something that's a "copyrighted" item right there, it's not registered but it's copyrighted none the less. Just because something isn't registered doesn't mean it's not legally protected.


For example, Say someone like Tom Clancy came out with a new book(that hasn't been released yet, and for some ungodly reason(no offense Steve), say even he was drunk and, decided he wanted to give the public a sample of his new book, and inturn posted the entire book here onto the SSG forums! That post(and post only) is the property of SSG! Now, SSG can use that information pretty much anyway they want!Again though, this is TOTALLY different from a whois search tool, especially one not stating they have any ownership or right to control material submitted.


However, it doesnt give SSG free-reign over the material because it's copyrighted! Which means the main thing that SSG can't do is profit off of it! Which is exactly what Netsol is doing, they profit from the holding page on the domain name through advertising, and then they profit again through the domain tasting and opportunistic selling to domain scalpers.


Furthermore, even if he was drunk, or just used that as his excuse as to why he posted it here and wanted the material back or removed from this site, he would find it would be a very difficult process! It probably would never make it to a court of law, and would end very nicely in SSG's favor as an out of court settlement! Some agreement(:greedy:SSG:greedy:) would be reached by both parties to have the material removed! Basicaly although it's his copyrighted work, he cant dictate to you how you run your website when he willfuly submitted the material!Again though, when he joined and used the forums previously, he agreed to the terms and conditions that said as much - Netsol has no such thing on their whois search.