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Slicker
02-13-2008, 03:57 AM
...then why is that when something happens people are quick to sue? It's ridiculous really. I was reading an article about the aboriginal people in Australia and getting an apology and whatever other BS and then at the end they said that a call for money won't be far off. So you can take my kids away and make me unhappy but you can make it all better with money? And they'll gladly take it and be done with it. I'm sure I'll hit a soft spot but the same thing applies to reparations in our country (well, yours since I live in Japan :p). Why should we all have to pay for something that only a small percentage of our family trees participated in. How many people in America can only trace there lineage back to the early 1900's? I'm betting at least half the country if not more so why should we all have to pay?


Also, people say you can't put a price on life but then I read articles and it seems that about $10 million is the going price that people are happy with when someone dies from an accident. :rolleyes:

Devil King
02-13-2008, 04:34 AM
I would imagine people who've never had any money don't know any better?

Slicker
02-13-2008, 06:08 AM
Well, it's also the fact of stupid lawsuits. Burning your lip on a pickle? Spilling coffee that's clearly labeled "hot"? I know that if I eat something that's hot and I burn myself I get mad at MYSELF and not the restaraunt. I'm the dumba55 that tried to take a bite of something that should be hot.

I just hate seeing people get awarded millions for trivial things. The "mental trauma" one always kills me.

Kidhuman
02-13-2008, 06:24 AM
BS lawsuits are ridiculous. That Mickey D's coffee thing was absurd. People tried to sue fast food chains for making them fat.No one is to blame but yourself.

The suing of cigarette companies was dumb also as was the gun companies for producing weapons that killed people. People smoked themselves, no one forced them. People have to pull triggers to kill people, why are the gun companies at fault, oh yeah, they installed triggers. If they didnt loved ones would still be alive. :rolleyes:

CaptainSolo1138
02-13-2008, 06:56 AM
The suing of cigarette companies was dumb
I'm with you on that. They weren't labeled "tasty, life extenders!" behind the counter at the store.

Jargo
02-13-2008, 07:17 AM
actually back in the day cigerettes were advertised as healthy and good for you. 1940's/50's era. people who started back then did have a claim against the industry for false advertising. however they could only claim so much because of course once the facts of nicotine addiction and tarring of lungs and cancer were discovered it's up to the individual to make the choice to continue smoking or not. for those that got cancer and died compensation was due but only for those of a certain age.

sorry if that reads awkwardly i only just crawled out of bed and my brain hasn't engaged yet.

JON9000
02-13-2008, 09:48 AM
That Mickey D's coffee thing was absurd.

Here are a few facts about that case we should hasten to add before passing judgment:

"McDonald's refused an offer to settle with her for $20,000 in medical costs.

Stella was burned badly (some sources say six percent of her skin was burned, other sources say 16 percent was) and needed two years of treatment and rehabilitation, including skin grafts.

From 1982 to 1992, McDonald's coffee burned more than 700 people, usually slightly but sometimes seriously, resulting in some number of other claims and lawsuits.

Witnesses for McDonald's admitted in court that consumers are unaware of the extent of the risk of serious burns from spilled coffee served at McDonald's required temperature, admitted that it did not warn customers of this risk, could offer no explanation as to why it did not, and testified that it did not intend to turn down the heat even though it admitted that its coffee is "not fit for consumption" when sold because it is too hot."

In any products liability case there is a bit of a dodo factor to overcome, but we only get the soundbites out here, while jury has the benefit of hearing all of the facts.


Also, people say you can't put a price on life but then I read articles and it seems that about $10 million is the going price that people are happy with when someone dies from an accident. :rolleyes:

Slick, we've had this conversation before. Did my arguments have no impact on your POV?

http://forums.sirstevesguide.com/showpost.php?p=534691&postcount=9

Unsaid is that suing when there is loss of life serves 2 purposes, restitution of the victims (which you don't seem to believe it), but also deterrence of unsafe behavior/ encouragement of safe behavior. The nature of capitalism demands that awards be given, because corporations understand one thing only: money.


I was reading an article about the aboriginal people in Australia and getting an apology and whatever other BS and then at the end they said that a call for money won't be far off. So you can take my kids away and make me unhappy but you can make it all better with money? And they'll gladly take it and be done with it. I'm sure I'll hit a soft spot but the same thing applies to reparations in our country (well, yours since I live in Japan :p).

Reparations is a pretty sticky subject, because human history is nothing more than a catalogue of technologically advanced peoples murdering and destroying their less advanced cousins. I'm currently reading "Guns, Germs, and Steel", and there is a startling chapter about the destruction of entire nations of South American natives by a few hundred Spaniards. The truth is, had the shoe been on the other foot, tech speaking, the indians would have subdued Spain. That said, I have a problem with reparations, but I have absolutely no problem with an honest apology.

Kidhuman
02-13-2008, 10:01 AM
Even though, they had to know it was hot. She didnt order ice coffee. I am quite sure it wasnt the very first time she ordered coffee from there. She had to know how hot it was.

CaptainSolo1138
02-13-2008, 10:12 AM
it did not warn customers of this risk, could offer no explanation as to why it did notCoffee is hot. Does Baskin-Robbins need to put up a warning that their ice cream is cold?

JON9000
02-13-2008, 10:12 AM
how hot

I consider myself to be of average intelligence, and until I read this information, I had no idea that spilling McDonald's coffee on my jeans would resulting in my skin melting into the fabric, requiring the hospital to rip my flesh off in order to remove the jeans from my body. That's HOT!


Coffee is hot. Does Baskin-Robbins need to put up a warning that their ice cream is cold?

That depends. Will dropping it on your lap cause the same amount of trauma? Of course not. Like I said, there is a dodo factor involved in these cases, but the level of warning should be proportional to the level of danger.

Kidhuman
02-13-2008, 10:41 AM
I consider myself to be of average intelligence, and until I read this information, I had no idea that spilling McDonald's coffee on my jeans would resulting in my skin melting into the fabric, requiring the hospital to rip my flesh off in order to remove the jeans from my body. That's HOT!




Its freaking boiling water. IT boils at 212 degrees. Did she think it would tickle? You set your water heater in the house to 120degrees and that is hot. This is 92 degrees hotter.

jedi master sal
02-13-2008, 12:27 PM
Going back to the thread title "Money can't buy you happiness," I beg to differ. There are certain levels of happiness. There certainly is one attained by having material things and it's in this sense that happiness can be bought.

Sex, yep, can be bought. (heh, I beat Tycho to the punch on that one, and I bet this is unexpected)

Physical looks-to a point, yes it can be bought. Plastic surgery is always improving. Other weight loss type surgeries also change ones looks. etc.

Buying a home can bring happiness to people in general.

Never having to want for food because you have money...yep happiness.

Now when it comes to relationships, that can get a bit sticky. There are those relationships who survive in spite of financial level-poor OR rich. Though I suspect that many more relationships would fall apart if money became an issue than those that stay together. So to a point here to, money can buy that happiness. True enough that there is something to be said about feelings, emotion and love and those particular intangibles can't be bought, however they CAN be influenced by money.

Imagine these very real scenarios.
Guy "A" has money AND looks good, he meets a gorgeous woman. She finds he has money and can "keep" her. So they go out, eventually get married and live happily ever after.
Guy "B" has looks but not much money. Same woman while finding him attractive will not stay with him forever, unless per chance he gets a good job and then bam, money.
Guy "C" is modest looking or even possibly ugly, same woman. While at first she either finds disdain in him or is repulsed, she learns he has money. He treats her "right" and gives her everything she desires (except a good looking husband). She learns to "settle" for his looks. He gets a trophy wife and for the most part "love" is bought.
Guy "D" neither has looks or money. Same woman blows him off and the guy looks for a woman who is on par with him. He meets her, they make due with what they have and may or may not last. In many cases by shear for of will they stay together, but you can bet if the money really dried up totally, one of them would split.

Fact is money CAN buy you happiness to some degree. Sad, but it IS true.

Are the above scenarios unfair or make the woman seem shallow? Yes, but tell me those aren't very real scenarios. We see it all the time in Hollywood. And it's even prevalent in our own lives if we open our eyes. How many times have you seen one not-so-good-looking person with a hot one? Not often and when you do, do you find yourself wondering how that is? Money is one of the first things that comes to mind, good in bed second maybe.

Fact is we are a money driven society. Lawsuits are part of that. Right or wrong as they may be. Money can open doors for a person that their winning personality might not. (I mean that sarcastic as well as realistically.)

I know I talk quite frequently with my fiancee about us winning the lottery. Not even to be rich. I'd like maybe a half million. That would wipe out our bills, buy and furnish a home, and give us the home based business we've always wanted. Me a work shop and her an art studio. And that WOULD go a very long way to making us happy. I don't need to be rich, but damn, I'd like to be out from under debt and "start-over."

To anyone who says money can't buy you happiness, I say they are a fool and are looking at life through blinders.

True happiness? Well that's something entirely different and also has different levels depending on the individual.

El Chuxter
02-13-2008, 12:29 PM
To quote a very wise man:


If money can't buy happiness, I guess I'll have to rent it.

JON9000
02-13-2008, 12:45 PM
Yousa point is well said, JedimasterSal

jedi master sal
02-13-2008, 03:05 PM
To quote a very wise man:



Originally Posted by Alfred Yankovic
If money can't buy happiness, I guess I'll have to rent it.

A man I quote very often...

jedi master sal
02-13-2008, 03:06 PM
Yousa point is well said, JedimasterSal

Thank you. I'm glad someone gets it. I was sure there was going to be an uproar about my post.

Jedi_Kal-El
02-13-2008, 03:12 PM
I don't have alot of money, probably never will so I guess I don't know what I'm missing. I'm not unhappy because I never have any money. Would be nice, and would help out quite a bit, but I suppose I'm no worse off without it.

2-1B
02-13-2008, 07:10 PM
Burrrrrrrrrrrrrrrn, Carolina Jon got them Michigan Boys GOOD. :thumbsup:


sorry if that reads awkwardly i only just crawled out of bed and my brain hasn't engaged yet.

Old age will do that to a person. :thumbsup: :whip: ;)

: old bean :

Devil King
02-13-2008, 07:18 PM
Going back to the thread title "Money can't buy you happiness," I beg to differ. There are certain levels of happiness. There certainly is one attained by having material things and it's in this sense that happiness can be bought.

Sex, yep, can be bought. (heh, I beat Tycho to the punch on that one, and I bet this is unexpected)

Physical looks-to a point, yes it can be bought. Plastic surgery is always improving. Other weight loss type surgeries also change ones looks. etc.

Buying a home can bring happiness to people in general.

Never having to want for food because you have money...yep happiness.

Now when it comes to relationships, that can get a bit sticky. There are those relationships who survive in spite of financial level-poor OR rich. Though I suspect that many more relationships would fall apart if money became an issue than those that stay together. So to a point here to, money can buy that happiness. True enough that there is something to be said about feelings, emotion and love and those particular intangibles can't be bought, however they CAN be influenced by money.

Imagine these very real scenarios.
Guy "A" has money AND looks good, he meets a gorgeous woman. She finds he has money and can "keep" her. So they go out, eventually get married and live happily ever after.
Guy "B" has looks but not much money. Same woman while finding him attractive will not stay with him forever, unless per chance he gets a good job and then bam, money.
Guy "C" is modest looking or even possibly ugly, same woman. While at first she either finds disdain in him or is repulsed, she learns he has money. He treats her "right" and gives her everything she desires (except a good looking husband). She learns to "settle" for his looks. He gets a trophy wife and for the most part "love" is bought.
Guy "D" neither has looks or money. Same woman blows him off and the guy looks for a woman who is on par with him. He meets her, they make due with what they have and may or may not last. In many cases by shear for of will they stay together, but you can bet if the money really dried up totally, one of them would split.

Fact is money CAN buy you happiness to some degree. Sad, but it IS true.

Are the above scenarios unfair or make the woman seem shallow? Yes, but tell me those aren't very real scenarios. We see it all the time in Hollywood. And it's even prevalent in our own lives if we open our eyes. How many times have you seen one not-so-good-looking person with a hot one? Not often and when you do, do you find yourself wondering how that is? Money is one of the first things that comes to mind, good in bed second maybe.

Fact is we are a money driven society. Lawsuits are part of that. Right or wrong as they may be. Money can open doors for a person that their winning personality might not. (I mean that sarcastic as well as realistically.)

I know I talk quite frequently with my fiancee about us winning the lottery. Not even to be rich. I'd like maybe a half million. That would wipe out our bills, buy and furnish a home, and give us the home based business we've always wanted. Me a work shop and her an art studio. And that WOULD go a very long way to making us happy. I don't need to be rich, but damn, I'd like to be out from under debt and "start-over."

To anyone who says money can't buy you happiness, I say they are a fool and are looking at life through blinders.

True happiness? Well that's something entirely different and also has different levels depending on the individual.

I'm guessing the chick in question will marry guy A, but cheat on him with guy B.

jedi master sal
02-13-2008, 08:13 PM
I'm guessing the chick in question will marry guy A, but cheat on him with guy B.

True nuff. Or she's with guy C and cheats on him for guys A and B.

Slicker
02-13-2008, 10:08 PM
I see that I'm not the only person that thinks these ridiculous lawsuits are absurd. I totally see where you're coming from JON but why should a company be punished because of someone knocking over there very own coffee? It's not like the Fry Guys got too rough in the back seat and made her spill it. She made herself spill it.

Another one that gets me is when something happens in the workplace between two parties and then the lawsuits come flying and they bring the corporation into it. It's all about the money because an entire corporation can certainly get you more money than an individual will. Whatever happened to the term "accidents happen"? I know I use that term a lot. Maybe I should just start suing people...it's the American way after all! :thumbsup:

2-1B
02-13-2008, 11:58 PM
Thanks Slick, now I'm picturing two of those Fry Guys going down on each other and bumping the driver's seat in the process.

JediTricks
02-14-2008, 12:22 AM
I enjoy buying products sold for immediate consumption that are so hot they will scald me severely upon said immediate consumption. I'm sure I would also enjoy products that were so cold they did the same. I especially enjoy having my crotch horribly burned and scarred for life due to a spilled beverage.

Slicker
02-14-2008, 02:40 AM
I enjoy buying products sold for immediate consumption that are so hot they will scald me severely upon said immediate consumption. I'm sure I would also enjoy products that were so cold they did the same. I especially enjoy having my crotch horribly burned and scarred for life due to a spilled beverage.You do? Then that makes you the first perso...wait...sarcasm. I get sarcasm. ;)

JediTricks
02-14-2008, 04:14 PM
Money can be a path to happiness, but often can also lead away from it. It is not the only source of happiness though, one does not necessarily need money to be happy. But whomever said money can't buy happiness is full of crap.


As for "ridiculous lawsuits", it makes me sad to see so many sheep in our society who don't think for themselves and merely take the media's sensationalism of these cases at face value. However, the reality is that at some point, a judge must have found there to be sufficient legal merit to the case to let it continue, and the media machine merely ignores those aspects for the quick "grab" to make a joke at the complainant's expense.


As for reparations, the idea is that the government which trod down on those peoples, holding them back for so long, can at least try to restore some semblance of where their place in modern society might have been had they not been downtrodden.

JON9000
02-14-2008, 05:01 PM
I see that I'm not the only person that thinks these ridiculous lawsuits are absurd. I totally see where you're coming from JON but why should a company be punished because of someone knocking over there very own coffee? It's not like the Fry Guys got too rough in the back seat and made her spill it. She made herself spill it.

Coffee is served hot and therefore requires care in handling. This is a matter of common knowledge, to be sure. If you know something is dangerous, you will exercise care around it. If we stop there, fine, she knew it was dangerous and obviously didn't exercise the requisite care.

Take it a step further, though. The amount of care you exercise is proportional to the level of risk you associate with the product. If the product is far more hazardous to your health than you understand it to be, you are likely to not exercise the required amount of care. That's what I was getting at when I said I myself had no idea coffee was hot enough to severly disfigure you.

So, does McDonald's have any duty to make the product safer (less boiling hot when served), or provide a more adequate warning so you, the consumer, will have the knowledge required to exercise the proper amount of caution?

I say yes. And think about it: based on the party that knows the level of danger, who is in the best position to prevent the accident? At least if she was given the proper warning, you could say she was aware of the level of danger when she went messing about with the coffee.

Also- coffee spills. It is a fact of life endemic to the product. Since McDonald's knows that X amount of people will spill the coffee, and there is no extra cost associated with brewing it at a safer temperature, shouldn't McDonald's do so?


Another one that gets me is when something happens in the workplace between two parties and then the lawsuits come flying and they bring the corporation into it. It's all about the money because an entire corporation can certainly get you more money than an individual will. Whatever happened to the term "accidents happen"? I know I use that term a lot. Maybe I should just start suing people...it's the American way after all! :thumbsup:

Companies are responsible for the actions of their employees. This creates a strong incentive for workplace safety and safety training. This is especially important in a work environment, as the industrial engines of modernity have an incredible capacity to destroy the human body. Honestly, Slick, were it not for tort law and OSHA, our collective health would be in a much more precipitous circumstance.

Many people felt as you seem to- that the loss should "lie where it falls". This attitude prevailed until Upton Sinclair published "The Jungle", which exposed corporate lust for money to have absolutely no care for the health and safety of workers. I have to admit that I am a little alarmed that the benefits that have accrued in the realm of worker safety due to the diligence of many people are held with such contempt.

I don't know where it comes from, all I know is that corporate interests spend a lot of money trying to convince people that we need tort reform.

bobafrett
02-16-2008, 11:13 AM
Coffee is hot. Does Baskin-Robbins need to put up a warning that their ice cream is cold?



That depends. Will dropping it on your lap cause the same amount of trauma? Of course not. Like I said, there is a dodo factor involved in these cases, but the level of warning should be proportional to the level of danger.

It may cause shrinkage.

Jedi_Kal-El
02-16-2008, 11:26 AM
That depends. Will dropping it on your lap cause the same amount of trauma? Of course not. Like I said, there is a dodo factor involved in these cases, but the level of warning should be proportional to the level of danger.


So if I use the dodo factor and get an Ice Cream headache frome eating it too fast can I sue?

Should they put a warning up for that?:cross-eye

JediTricks
02-16-2008, 05:00 PM
It depends on if you have medical bills stemming from it coupled with horrible physical trauma. You don't, so no. This is my previous point, you CAN sue, but it will be tossed out by a judge immediately because you have no legal merit and no damages, yet those other cases that so many goof on passed that test because there was legal merit and damages.

JON9000
02-16-2008, 10:13 PM
So if I use the dodo factor and get an Ice Cream headache frome eating it too fast can I sue?

Should they put a warning up for that?:cross-eye

The "dodo factor" is an obstacle to recovery, not something that helps you as a plaintiff in these cases.

Bel-Cam Jos
02-18-2008, 11:54 AM
Let's take a math angle (awww... no, c'mon). What if I told you that "angle" is an arithmetic pun? (well... okay... ).

Money = Happiness. Wrong.

Money + X = Happiness. (X = variable that is pleasing) Correct.
or
Money - Y = Happiness. (Y = variable that is unpleasing) Correct.

When people believe that the funds themselves will provide happiness, they are deluding themselves with delusions of grandeur, delusingly. Even some of the things purchased may not provide that sense (i.e. monogrammed Kleenex by the ton, a bathtub filled with Perrier, hiring somebody to chew one's food, etc.). There's a quote attributed to Benjamin Franklin that is something like, "the Constitution does not guarantee happiness, just the pursuit of it." What you do with your moola is what makes you happy.

As far as the lawsuit carp goes, for years, I've said that the threat (not even the actual suit itself) of the lawsuit is the worst aspect of our culture. People won't help others as often, because they might get sued for some misconstrued aspect. I've been highly sceptical of punitive damages, too. Lawsuits are no longer a deterrent to bad behavior, because you can countersue. Great. :tired:

I could've saved a lot of typing time to put simply two words:

PERSONAL
RESPONSIBILITY

That's it, folks. When that returns, it'll be many happy returns for all of us.

JON9000
02-19-2008, 10:19 AM
Sweet Jesus in Heaven. Did any of you people see Fight Club? Remember where Ed Norton talks about automobile recalls? In sum, car company sees defective condition that leads to crashes.

Company figures cost to issue recall =X

Company figures cost of lawsuits due to crashes =Y

If X is greater than Y, company does not issue recall.

This was not put into the film for your amusement. There are many americans, particularly business people, that believe economics is a substitute for morality.

If you have no lawsuits, you have absolutely no motivation for safety. Without punitive damages (which, by the way are only available when there is willfull or reckless conduct, gross negligence) you are greatly reducing the incentive for safety. But please, don't let that stop you guys for thundering down catch phrases from the mountaintop.

It's always personal responsibility until it happens to you.

P.S. Jackie Childs was a joke on a television show, not a reflection of reality.