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View Full Version : Who owes Star Wars fans a bigger apology: George Lucas or Hasbro?



Mister Roboto
03-14-2008, 11:12 AM
Who owes Star Wars fans a bigger apology: George Lucas or Hasbro?

Uncle George put out three pretty good movies 30 years ago, only to follow them up with three pretty crappy prequels. And in between prequels, he changed those original moives.

Hasbro. All of you know of their alleged crimes against SW collectors. The endless production of Clones, Vaders, and Tatooine Lukes (most of which are poor sculpts). Then there are the impossible t find convention exclusives, in-store exclusives and UGH figures. The frustration is doubled for collectors outside of the U.S.

Personally, I say Lucas owes the fans a bigger apology because screwing up the prequels is worse than anything that Hasbro has done. And I also take the production of a Yarna figure as an apology from Hasbro.

Rocketboy
03-14-2008, 11:27 AM
George's 3 "crappy" movies vs Hasbro's 500+ wastes of plastic (including, what, like 50 clones by now)?

I guess Hasbro "wins"?

Jedi_Kal-El
03-14-2008, 12:09 PM
That's a tough one( No not really). I'd have to say Hasbro. Not that I don't enjoy some of the "just offscreen" clones they make, but there comes a time when it gets a little old. UGH, is just stupid IMHO. Convention exclusives aren't bad if done right, and made available to those who can't attend somewhere down the road at a reasonable price(yeah right, never gonna happen). As far as Vader and Luke, well don't get me started there.

Beast
03-14-2008, 12:18 PM
Neither owes anyone an apology. :rolleyes:

bigbarada
03-14-2008, 12:19 PM
I'd say Lucas. The prequels added absolutely nothing to the OT storyline. In fact, they actually weakened the OT storyline by confusing and convoluting everything that the OT clearly set up.

Hasbro has done a stellar job in the last few years of making quality figures. Take the worst figures from 2007 and they would have been absolutely amazing if they had been released in 1995.

Hasbro never claimed to be a charity and they're sculptors never claimed to be fine artists (even though many of their sculpts are absolutely beautiful). They are a business in the business of making toys, solely for the purpose of making money, they have never hidden that fact.

George Lucas pretended to be a writer and an artist and a director. The Prequels proved that he's nothing but a liar, standing on the shoulders of truly talented people claiming their work as his own.

Jargo
03-14-2008, 12:27 PM
business is business. if people didn't buy the stuff hasbro wouldn't make it. when people don't buy stuff hasbro stop making it.

George, well his movies are less about fulfilling the story arc and more about what he can prove do-able. Jar Jar is annoying but it proved a CGI actor can work with live action actors. the progression of the prequels was about the digital realm. digital hi def cameras and the integration of live action and pixels. making big budget blockbuster movies outside the hollywood system.

there are people who thing the OT sucks same as there are people who think the PT does. it's just down to personal taste really. I don't think either Lucas or Hasbro owe anyone any kind of apology. I think if you bought the SE versions of the OT and bought the product hasbro made that you don't like you owe yourself an apology and a kick up the butt to say stop whining and be more objective. (not aimed at the OP just a general musing)

JON9000
03-14-2008, 01:52 PM
it's just down to personal taste really. I don't think either Lucas or Hasbro owe anyone any kind of apology. I think if you bought the SE versions of the OT and bought the product hasbro made that you don't like you owe yourself an apology and a kick up the butt to say stop whining and be more objective. (not aimed at the OP just a general musing)

***NOTE: I agree with the above quote***

Seriously, if anybody has anything original to say in this thread that hasn't been said twenty times already (as if saying it again will make you sound any more intelligent this time around), please, let me know. :rolleyes:

Jargo
03-14-2008, 01:58 PM
oh you're such a charmer aren't you. take your self percieved superiority and shove it somewhere painful.

JON9000
03-14-2008, 02:14 PM
oh you're such a charmer aren't you. take your self percieved superiority and shove it somewhere painful.

I'm agreeing with you, Sparky, not putting you down. Try to relax. And I don't consider myself superior to anyone, just as another forumite bored with same tired conversation. :)

Kidhuman
03-14-2008, 02:21 PM
Hasbro has done a stellar job in the last few years of making quality figures. Take the worst figures from 2007 and they would have been absolutely amazing if they had been released in 1995.



I dont think so, that MV Luke was horrendous. It would have been CARP in 95.

Jargo
03-14-2008, 03:03 PM
I'm agreeing with you, Sparky, not putting you down. Try to relax. And I don't consider myself superior to anyone, just as another forumite bored with same tired conversation. :)

*sigh* 1. I apologise. 2. please don't call me sparky. 3. your post came across differently before you edited in the note.


that is all. :sleeping:

Mvader91
03-14-2008, 03:55 PM
The greatest thing about collecting and moviegoing is that we all have a "choice" to enjoy what we like and dislike. No one forced any of us to go see the prequals or buy the merchandise. It was our choice. So in the end blame yourself with your less than satisfying purchases.

Jedi_Kal-El
03-14-2008, 06:36 PM
just as another forumite bored with same tired conversation. :)

No offense meant to you JON, but alot in the same way we have a choice not to watch the prequels or buy certain figures Hasbro cranks out, you have the choice to not post in a thread if you think it's pointless, or the same old thing.

JON9000
03-14-2008, 07:17 PM
No offense meant to you JON, but alot in the same way we have a choice not to watch the prequels or buy certain figures Hasbro cranks out, you have the choice to not post in a thread if you think it's pointless, or the same old thing.

None taken, nevertheless, I reserve the right to call "groundhog thread" when I see posts that could have been literally copied and pasted from about 50 others. Is there anything wrong with wondering aloud what the point of it is, other than to provoke yet another holy war?

Mr. JabbaJohnL
03-14-2008, 08:30 PM
Well, I think I've made these points before, but here goes again:

These are movies and toys we're talking about. They're supposed to be fun, not the pinnacles of Western civilization.

I do think that in both cases, they were trying to do right by the fans. But you (clearly) can't please all the people all the time. People wanted to see Anakin become Vader, and we got it, and some liked it and some didn't. People asked for clones in 2002 and 2003 after Hasbro shortpacked them, and now we are drowning in them and getting mad at them for going overboard.

As Bart Simpson once said, "if anything, YOU owe THEM." It doesn't work quite as well here given how much many of have spent on this stuff . . . but you get the idea.

plasticfetish
03-14-2008, 08:42 PM
Gee, and I'm still waiting for the Serbs to apologize for starting WW1.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
03-14-2008, 08:59 PM
Gee, and I'm still waiting for the Serbs to apologize for starting WW1.
Good thing they blamed the Germans, since THAT turned out so well.

CaptainSolo1138
03-14-2008, 09:12 PM
Gee, and I'm still waiting for the Serbs to apologize for starting WW1.Archduke Ferdinand had it coming.:mad::mad::mad:

I reserve the right to call "groundhog thread" when I see posts that could have been literally copied and pasted from about 50 others.I reserve the right to call "groundhog thread" when I see posts that could have been literally copied and pasted from about 50 others.

bigbarada
03-14-2008, 09:20 PM
I dont think so, that MV Luke was horrendous. It would have been CARP in 95.

I disagree.


The greatest thing about collecting and moviegoing is that we all have a "choice" to enjoy what we like and dislike. No one forced any of us to go see the prequals or buy the merchandise. It was our choice. So in the end blame yourself with your less than satisfying purchases.

I agree with you completely on the toys. But purchasing a ticket to a movie doesn't disqualify me from thinking that movie is crap. In fact, it gives me more of a right to criticize the movie.

Not only do the prequels add NOTHING to the OT storyline, but they actually detract from the plot and destroy the integrity of OT characters (primarily Obi-Wan who has been turned into a pathological liar by the PT).

stillakid
03-14-2008, 09:46 PM
I do think that in both cases, they were trying to do right by the fans.
That's a big assumption, that the goal was to "please" the fans. The key words in your statement above are "I" and "think." Looking at the situation for myself, I see the situation (as far as the movies go) exactly 180 degrees from your opinion. I do not believe the G. Lucas was trying to please the fans as much as serve his own personal goals which, too often, conflict with the basic tenets of quality storytelling and filmmaking. He's admitted as much in public which makes me wonder how you arrived at your conclusion above. :confused:



People wanted to see Anakin become Vader, and we got it, and some liked it and some didn't.

Again, I believe that you're misrepresenting and simplifying the argument. It hasn't been that "we" just didn't "like" it. The Original Trilogy story has a number of elements that allude to or outright establish a continuity that any prequel story was obligated to follow. Yes, we all saw Anakin "become" Darth Vader, but the issue of "how" it happens relative to the established continuity is what has been called into question. Your statement above attempts to water down the discussion into mere "like/dislike" arguments, and it couldn't be any further from the reality.

"People" didn't just "want to" see Anakin become Vader. That IS part of the Prequel story so Lucas had to show it. There really was (almost) no choice, so that's a non-argument. It's the "how did it happen?" and the details of that transformation that have been the issue.

Continuing discussion (or not) of the issues is fine either way, but the effort to misrepresent the reasoning behind the dissension is not.

Beast
03-14-2008, 09:49 PM
Not only do the prequels add NOTHING to the OT storyline, but they actually detract from the plot and destroy the integrity of OT characters (primarily Obi-Wan who has been turned into a pathological liar by the PT).
I disagree. And Obi-Wan was already a pathological liar in the OT.

For Cripes sake, Luke even calls him out as a big fat liar in Return of the Jedi.

stillakid
03-14-2008, 10:04 PM
I disagree. And Obi-Wan was already a pathological liar in the OT.

For Cripes sake, Luke even calls him out as a big fat liar in Return of the Jedi.

:rolleyes: Evidently, the concept of conceptual subtlety isn't a part of everyone's vocabulary.

But, that's why guys like Joel Schumacher and Michael Bay make movies, so everyone can "get it." :yes:

Kidhuman
03-14-2008, 10:12 PM
I disagree.




How so, that head sculpt was horrible. It didnt look like anything I ever saw in the SW Universe.

Old Fossil
03-14-2008, 10:17 PM
Whoa! Wrong room again!

*click*

stillakid
03-14-2008, 10:18 PM
The greatest thing about collecting and moviegoing is that we all have a "choice" to enjoy what we like and dislike. No one forced any of us to go see the prequals or buy the merchandise. It was our choice. So in the end blame yourself with your less than satisfying purchases.

Toys, maybe, because they have a clear bubble.

But there is no way to accurately or fairly judge a film until you've paid the admission price and invested the time to watch it from beginning to end.

And Prequel is spelled with an "e."

jjreason
03-14-2008, 10:32 PM
So are "elitist" and "holier-than-thou". Looking at it, "I'm smarter than you" has one in there as well.

Hasbro OWES me the biggest apology. I would have never bought half the stuff they created over the past 13 years if they hadn't created it.:mad:

Rocketboy
03-14-2008, 10:58 PM
So are "elitist" and "holier-than-thou". Looking at it, "I'm smarter than you" has one in there as well.:D So does "as*hole."

CaptainSolo1138
03-14-2008, 11:42 PM
Perhaps these off-topic comments deserve a sepÆrate thread.

Rocketboy
03-14-2008, 11:52 PM
Perhaps these off-topic comments deserve a sepÆrate thread.Perhaps in the prequal section?

2-1B
03-15-2008, 12:06 AM
Let's get back on topic, please. :thumbsup:

stillakid
03-15-2008, 12:16 AM
Let's get back on topic, please. :thumbsup:

Onli four peepol that dont carre abowt spalling rite. Thay thunk its ok to do. :lipsrsealed:

General_Grievous
03-15-2008, 01:23 AM
Who cares about spelling typos? What are we, writing a thesis paper here? Get off the high horse, Mr. Spell. :rolleyes:

As for the apologies, I think Lucas owes us all an apology for taking advantage of our wallets. But has it been worth it? You bet it has.

2-1B
03-15-2008, 01:45 AM
George Lucas drank our milkshakes. He drank them up!

Deoxyribonucleic
03-15-2008, 03:53 AM
This is hilarious, I needed a good laugh before I went to bed! lol lol lol

I think the abortion debate is going to end WAY before the OT vs. Prequel debate. I'll be walking into a clinic, only to be told, "sorry lady, no more right to abortion." And I'll say "when did this occur?" And the person will say "about 20 years ago" and I'll say "well, I'll be dipped in sh*t, I was right, the abortion debate ended before the OT vs Prequel debate which STILL hasn't ended!" "Anyone around here have a hanger?" "I need to sell some stem cells to pay for my drug habit, which got me into prostitution, which is why I came to the clinic today."

decadentdave
03-15-2008, 04:00 AM
Obviously Lucas for being the biggest pimp on the planet. This guy just can't get enough of our money. Instead of making experimental and independent films again he's busy pimping Indy 4 and repackaging the Clone Wars as a vehicle to keep making more money. The guy needs to croak or retire.

plasticfetish
03-15-2008, 04:35 AM
OK. There's a certain anarchist side of me that wants this thread to keep rolling along as a kind of freeform rant, but that part of me isn't a moderator here. As such, I'm leaning toward closing it...

I don't see this going anywhere. If anyone really needs an "I hate the prequels" or "Hasbro sucks" thread, they can use the Search feature, and they'll probably find one. (I'll bet if we gave Caesar 5 minutes, he could dig up a dozen of each.)