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Devo
04-01-2008, 02:30 PM
Though I love Hasbros work on background aliens and droids and appreciate that they make such obscure characters in the first place their '07 line really dented my confidence in their ability to do good Original trilogy core character sculpts. I've reached the point where although I want them to 'try again' I'm also afraid to see what they come up with, that they won't have learnt from previous mistakes and will just put out more sub-par figures that we'll be stuck with for years because that figure will be 'done' as far as they're concerned.

Heres the offenders of the TAC lineup:

Bespin Han - horrific frankenstein figure, IMO nothing is salvageable
Jabbas Palace Luke - shoulda been DSII but if this is the quality thank god it wasn't
Smuggler Lando - downgraded headsculpt that looks more like Satan, awkward puffy body, swivel elbows, wrong type of sleeve
Vaporator Luke - giant head syndrome (one extreme or the other, wheres the happy medium?)
Ewok net R2-D2 - yet another shiny chrome dome and the less preferred body sculpt
Yavin Luke - most examples didn't have eyebrows, skin was unusually white, some say he has gorilla arms and his joints are awkward (I agree only on the headsculpt, I think the rest is fine)
Stormtrooper - burdened by an unnecessary removeable helmet that can be warped out of shape and will inevitably turn yellow very quickly
VTAC endor Leia - giraffe neck, another dollface
VTAC Bespin Luke - taller than other lukes, no likeness to speak of, awkward pointy shoulder and elbow joints (although I don't think this one is too bad)
VTAC Hoth han - some hated that he didn't have the hood, some thought he looks fat (I actually liked him)

For me Hoth han was the closest to being completely satisfactory, followed by Bespin Luke and yavin Luke but after that theres a plunge with the figures having what are, for me, glaring flaws as bad as anything from POTF2.

There are a number of trends on which Hasbro seem to be staying the course that make me feel discouraged about what we might get when they eventually make Death Star II Luke for example.

- overuse of Soft goods

a frighteningly ridiculous recent example has to be that Order 66 Anakin - http://www.rebelscum.com/photo.asp?image=/TAC/TAC08order662AS1.jpg

or perhaps the repaint Emperor from the same series - http://www.rebelscum.com/photo.asp?image=/TAC/TAC08order664EP1.jpg

Who can honestly say this looks good? Soft goods should be used with far greater consideration and restraint than Hasbro is evidently giving it right now. At the very least the Emperor requires sculpted outer robes and hood, maybe softgoods underneath. The Evolutions figure proves this. Jedi figures should use softgoods only on the lower parts of their tunics like the first figures to do so from the Episode I line. I long for Hasbro to give us a newly sculpted neutral-pose Darth Vader cape - an update of the POTF2 removeable helmet Vader's cape - as soft goods simply do not hang naturally.

- poorly disguised joints

Hasbro messed up last year in an area where previously they have been successful. For some reason ball-jointed shoulders, elbows and knees became too noticeable this year and on one figure from the previous year that springs to mind VTSC X-wing Luke. Some figures in '07 such as Bespin Luke, Death Star trooper and Jabbas palace luke had terrible, unnatural looking joints.

- the insistence on balljoint necks

This kind of jointing looks terrible on human figures but it seems I can't convince most people of this. Nevertheless I must point out that it does lead to atrocities like Giraffe neck VTAC endor Leia, Bobble-head Jabbas palace Luke or figures whose hair juts out unnaturally like X-wing Luke. Other figures get left without lower jaws. Its an added complication in the making of a figure and when it goes wrong it really goes wrong.

- Hasbros persistant reuse of VOTC Han and R2-D2

that Han figure was, and is, far too thin. They cheated us by reusing his legs in the next line of expensive Vintage figures for the, consequently poor, VTSC endor Han and they created a true abomination in 07 with the Torture Rack Han - a figure so proportionally mismatched as to beggar belief that it ever saw release approval. Hasbro needs to get over this idea that because people liked that figure on first release that they can just keep rehashing his parts for every Han figure they do. Its not working. Likewise I and many others continue to be puzzled and irritated by Hasbros refusal to put out a definitive R2-D2, which could easily be done. People weren't overly fond of VOTC R2 and yet its the only sculpt of the main droid of the entire saga they seem to put out in the basic line. A more accurate body sculpt exists and more accurate paintjobs of his dome have previously been done. So why have Hasbro taken it on themselves to return to POTF2 by painting his head in inaccurate chrome whilst persistently issuing a less preferred body?

- disimproving likenesses

Luke peaked in 2004 with the (superior) Saga Jabbas palace figure. Granted his ROTJ luke was quite specific, getting an accurate ANH and ESB likeness is a different story altogether. A standout character whose likenesses have regressed is Lando Calrissian. POTF2 did a basic but not bad likeness of Billy Dee, POTJ did a pretty much flawless one. The Skiff Lando was also good. However VOTC and Smuggler Lando had terrible likenesses. Proof indeed that newer isn't always better - which is why I fear to ask for 'new sculpts'. Likewise Princess Leia hasn't had it good since POTJ's Bespin escape and 25th anniversary figures. Those figures were the closest to Carrie fisher Hasbro ever achieved in this scale. But since VOTC Leia looks like a childs doll.

Probably the best served Original Trilogy main character is Chewbacca. VOTC was a truly great figure and Hasbro have given us headsculpt variants to reflect the various 'hairstyles' or moods of Chewbacca. I only hope these variants get release in the basic line.

- inconsistent scale

We're getting Han figures that are almost as thin as Leia, Luke figures from ROTJ that are shorter than Luke figures from ANH, and figures whose heads are either too big or too small. It seems Hasbro have settled on VOTC as the standard size for Boba Fett's helmet. Unfortunately they have it wrong. The '300th' Boba Fett figure had a helmet that was both the correct size and shape and it hasn't been used since. Why?


So is anyone else going to be excited yet fearful of what we might see when the likes of DSII jedi Luke are finally unveiled?

Jargo
04-01-2008, 03:10 PM
in an ideal world there would be fewer figures released per year and each woud have the utmost care and attention lavished upon them to ensure every detail is as perfect as can be. unfortunately hasbo's production and release policies mean that doesn't happen and the factories can make changes at the last minute that are beyond hasbro's control. one of the inherent problems with outsourcing production to foreign countries for cheap labour's sake.
there are things on every single figure hat can be pointed at as a bit iffy. I feel the ball jointing of heads is too much. I was ok with foward back head hinging and swivel turning at the collar. it wasn't a perfect solution but it didn't maul facial likenesses the way ball jointing has. the ball jointed shoulders seem to have got larger and larger and protrude further from the torso with each successive wave. it's harder with sleeveless or skinny characters but with clothed characters it shouldn't be so difficult to integrate the ball jointing. diagonal swivel elbow joints are usually pretty cruddy, in some ways just as limiting in the poses you can achieve as non jointed elbows. if it meant dropping a figure from a wave in order to cost out better articultion on the rest of the wave I'd be ok with that.
my opinion is mostly academic though as i don't buy a lot of figures these days. Just Tatooine themed ones. or any I can customise into unproduced Tatooine characters. I still collect pictures of everything and compare stuff though. scrutinise the details.
i don't suppose it matters one way or another to carded collectors. the figures could all be zero articulation for them. what does it matter when the figure never leaves the blister? I think kids opinions are underestimated too. I'll wager they'd prefer better articulation too. and better facial likenesses and fewer weird proportioned heads because of neck ball jointing.

JediTricks
04-01-2008, 08:35 PM
Devo, you are right on so many of those. I am a secret optimist, I hope they'll do better next time since with many non-main character entries, they do. But the TAC line I actually sent Hasbro this in Q&A...

SSG, Oct 26th, 2007:
Q: While the TAC line has been doing great designs with aliens and armored figures, a lot of fans feel there have been a number of misfires with main characters in this line. Luke Yavin and Luke Tatooine's headsculpts and decos, Mace Windu's head, Vintage Leia Endor's long neck and inaccurate face deco, Lando in smuggler outfit's new head design and its rolled-back-in-his-head eyes, Vintage Luke Bespin's likeness, and everything about Han Torture Rack from the odd head to the mismatched proportions of the body. And it's not like we always need resculpted heads, POTJ Bespin Leia and Early Bird Kit Luke already have superior likenesses. So what is happening here? A: Thanks for the comments. In general, there has always been variety to the likenesses 3-3/4" figure line and while we would like every likeness to be exact, at our scale this is not something that we can expect. We're sorry you have been disappointed; while some of your comments are areas we hope to improve upon, for others, it's the first we have heard about overall dissatisfaction with these figures.
Honestly, I think the soft goods on this year's Anakin and Obi-Wan figures was astounding work, but in general we get rather uninspiring entries like what you linked. Somewhere in the middle lies the ROTS Emperor's Guard and last year's Jango poncho.

As for the joints problem, they have gotten sloppy with gappy and fat or round joints, it's like they're trying to hide the joints in costume bulges but both end up failing.

With the ball-jointed heads, I don't mind it as much as you. Some figures do suffer bad design, but for example, that Jabba's Palace Luke we got last year, there's nothing really wrong with that head IMO except for the likeness, but that's due to the Saga figure's sculpt from 3 years prior being a lesser sculpt - and the TAC version's head is the same height and neck the same size as its Saga cousin. The hair on the VOTC Luke head (recycled for X-wing Luke) was a bad style choice, the joint itself wasn't the cause. I like the expressive poses I can get out of figures with this joint (usually, some are too restricted) and I stand by my support of it.

Look at ROTS Pilot Obi-Wan, that's a decent head likeness, and the newest version we just got this year is even better.


- Hasbros persistant reuse of VOTC Han and R2-D2

that Han figure was, and is, far too thin. They cheated us by reusing his legs in the next line of expensive Vintage figures for the, consequently poor, VTSC endor Han and they created a true abomination in 07 with the Torture Rack Han - a figure so proportionally mismatched as to beggar belief that it ever saw release approval. Hasbro needs to get over this idea that because people liked that figure on first release that they can just keep rehashing his parts for every Han figure they do. Its not working. Likewise I and many others continue to be puzzled and irritated by Hasbros refusal to put out a definitive R2-D2, which could easily be done. People weren't overly fond of VOTC R2 and yet its the only sculpt of the main droid of the entire saga they seem to put out in the basic line. A more accurate body sculpt exists and more accurate paintjobs of his dome have previously been done. So why have Hasbro taken it on themselves to return to POTF2 by painting his head in inaccurate chrome whilst persistently issuing a less preferred body?While I totally agree with you on the Han issue, with the VOTC R2 I'm not there. I am bothered by reuses of that figure with the chrome dome (which is not entirely inaccurate for the OT) and that awkwardly-glued main body panel, but this is the most accurate sculpt of R2 so far, the R4-G9 body while very good and entertaining, is slightly less accurate in both dome and body sculpt areas. The best VOTC body to judge R2 on is the TSC Hoth repaint, the grime on that makes the sculpt really come alive.

That said, R2-D2 is not "done" yet, they have yet to address some of his crucial gimmicks, and overall there's still the inaccurate "hips".


Luke peaked in 2004 with the (superior) Saga Jabbas palace figure. Granted his ROTJ luke was quite specificIt's the same sculpted likeness, the TAC version is a modification of the one you mentioned. Sometimes it's more about paint - eyes, eyebrows, and hair - than about sculpt, Leia and Lando are good examples of this since superior sculpts still yield lesser results with poor paint.



It seems Hasbro have settled on VOTC as the standard size for Boba Fett's helmet. Unfortunately they have it wrong. The '300th' Boba Fett figure had a helmet that was both the correct size and shape and it hasn't been used since. Why?See, this comes from a subjective viewpoint. I just measured the helmets against each other, I'd have to get out my micrometer to find a noticeable difference in size, in both width and height they are within a millimeter of each other. The only significant difference is the height of the rangefinder, and the more accurate design is on the VOTC figure. My guess is you're seeing a difference because of its relationship to the shoulder armor, but the helmets and bodies are pretty much otherwise in sync.



Bottom line, for me, I want to ask for these figures, I want to strive for better. I don't think one should fear change just because of a few missteps along the way - maybe they'll do better, maybe worse, but if they don't try to improve things, then we may as well just cling to our he-man POTF2 figures. Am I risking disappointment? Absolutely, and it's frustrating to see Hasbro blow it because it also means it'll be another year or 2 before they try it again, but my personal risks are merely a couple bucks and a little disappointment.

bigbarada
04-02-2008, 01:53 AM
I agree with JT about the Saga Hoth Artoo being the best version of that character and the chrome-dome doesn't bother me at all. It's kind of a tradition for Artoo figures.

The Hoth version of the VOTC Artoo is an improvement because, as JT said, the paint apps really highlight the details (plus he's dirty in the films way more than he is clean) and it also does an acceptable job of drawing attention away from the glued-on body panel.

I also like the removable leg better than the retractable leg of the other astromech body. It's a K.I.S.S. solution to the whole third leg issue. Plus it allowed me to swap out the central leg from the Saga R5 figure, since those silver and blue rods are painted on the R5 figure, but for some reason have never been painted on the Artoo figure.

Hasbro would have to do something pretty amazing with a new Artoo figure to improve upon this one.

However, I disagree about VOTC Han Solo, that's an incredible figure, IMO. Aside from retooling him with a removable vest, I don't see any ways to improve upon the figure. If we never see another ANH Han Solo, then I'm perfectly happy with this one.

We've still never had a decent version of ANH Luke, but I've just lost interest in the figure. Hasbro would have to do something really cool to get me to buy another version of ANH Luke.

I will have to agree with Devo about the soft-goods. I used to drive the soft-goods bandwagon until Hasbro proved just how bad soft-goods could look on such a regular basis. I think the biggest problem is that their choice of material is terrible, it's too thin and almost transparent. Plus it doesn't hang off the figures well and juts out at odd angles. They either need to find a new material or just go back to sculpted capes.

Devo
04-02-2008, 03:32 PM
OK if I'm honest I've never particularly scrutinised and compared with film all the R2 sculpts and I may have overstated the extent to which his figures rile me. I mentioned him because he's a main character, I've read many times that people wanted the R4-G9 sculpt rather than the VOTC, and therefore added him to my 'list' of 'failed' core character figures Hasbro put out this year. As with some other figures like Yavin luke, so hated by some people and yet not by me, I don't particularly have a problem with R2 figures and which body sculpt they use for him. However the chrome definitely does annoy me - I see it as a backward step - and not film accurate if you ask me. All the other astro droids get painted with matte silver and I don't see why they treat R2 differently.

Apart from the chrome dome I too loved the paintjob on the TSC Hoth Artoo, it seemed the most in touch with how R2 normally looks in the films. Still waiting on a new Tatooine version though - the best we have is still the commtech. I wouldn't mind a return to some planet-specific sculpted dirt and the restraining bolt for just one figure - likewise C-3PO.

I'm also forced to admit that the TAC jabbas palace head and the '04 Saga jabbas palace luke head are one and the same - but my god does that head not suit the ball-joint treatment! To me it looks like a really bad amateur custom job and not something a toy company-proper should have put out. I'm pretty sure someone else put it this way before I did - but the balljointing on that head makes it look like a Bobblehead figure - some sort of caricature. The poorer repaint doesn't help. I'm surprised to see you say JT "there's nothing really wrong with that head IMO except for the likeness, but that's due to the Saga figure's sculpt from 3 years prior being a lesser sculpt". Maybe I misunderstand you but I think and always did think that the 04 Saga JP Luke has an excellent sculpt - and is far superior as it was painted originally on that figure than has been done in 2007.

As to the Fett issue, I still think the 300th figure has the better headsculpt, if not the 'bigger'. Having them both in my hand I see that you're actually probably right in your observations JT, the difference is negligible and thanks for bothering enough to actually check this out. It could be a combination of the 300th figure's more downward pointing shoulder pads, the paintjob and the fact that its a solid head on a swivel neck that made me assume it was 'bigger' without having taken them both in hand to confirm. I don't know, my mind was telling me, and kind of still is, that the VOTC helmet has a more conical look to it. So alright this is subjective. I'd prefer to see the 300th figures' head on that new Evolutions body but obviously Hasbro wanted a removeable helmet and a (more) hollowed out VOTC head was the easier option.

I guess a whole lot of what I've said is subjective. I wish todays figures would combine the likenesses achieved in 2000 with the better examples of Superarticulation we've gotten under Hasbros current output. Its why I hold up ROTS Count Dooku as the closest to a definitive figure as Hasbro have done in recent years, even despite my own lack of enthusiasm for the prequel films:

-the best likeness of Christopher Lee
-god bless the days - a normal swivel neck
-a soft goods cape that can hang well
-and NO OTHER softgoods to compromise the look of the figure
-no unnatural looking joints visible
-and yet the joints are there and they work
-furthermore the figures sabre-handling capabilities are indeed 'far beyond' those of any other figures - he can hold a lightsabre pointing outwards from his body - not only due to the sabre design but because of the shoulders and the sculpting of his palm

All this figure lacks is an unlit lightsabre mountable on his belt. The Evolutions Dooku would have been good had it been released before this figure but its ball-joint head and its inferior softgoods made it a step back for me. Subjective again I'm forced to admit because there are people who prefer that figure for the very reasons I don't.


In summary, a lot of Hasbros current trends - soft-goods, super-articulation, balljointed heads, converting originally swivel-based heads into balljoints - seem to be introducing with them a whole lot of risks and complications that, in '07 particularly, are seeing fruition into out-and-out flaws in final figures. It could be as Jargo said, and as Hasbro say themselves, that factory changes beyond their control result in some of the issues I'm ranting on about. But that doesn't change the fact that we wouldn't be talking about 'different neck post sizes' and 'head sockets' if Hasbro didn't insist on balljointed heads in the first place. It doesn't change the fact that we wouldn't be talking about VOTC Kenobis awful puffed up blanket or the Emperor's...what...are we supposed to call it a 'robe'?....if Hasbro didn't insist on Softgoods in the first place. Hasbro sometimes don't seem to be showing due consideration of what works when it works, and what clearly doesn't work when it doesn't work. Which is why I worry (inasmuch as one can 'worry' about toys) that I'm still going to be using my POTF2 Emperor for years after their next attempt.


.......look all I'm asking is for Hasbro to make the figures to my personal specifications, now is that too much to ask???!!!

Mad Slanted Powers
04-03-2008, 12:47 AM
If a core character needs improvement or a different take on it, then by all means go ahead and ask for it. This is the very discussion that I was just reading in the ANH poll thread on Rebelscum. Some really want new versions of R2-D2 and Tatooine Luke. Others feel that those have been done too many times and it would be a waste to vote for one they will probably redo anyway.

These are some of my preferences on some of these issues:

R2-D2 - I prefer to have a retractable middle leg. The chrome doesn't bother me as much, but they've made him with the proper look, so why not all the time?

Ball-Jointed Heads - These don't bother me. I like the increased range of motion they provide.

Poorly disguised joints - I think it's more the blocky style ones that bother me. That's why I didn't like any of the ROTS Obi-Wans and Anakins very much, or the Maces. The VTAC Bespin Luke does have that piece that sticks out of the shoulder, but overall the joints don't bother me much on him.

Soft-goods - There certainly are plenty of examples of bad uses of soft-goods, like the Evolutions Sidious. However, at least it allows for some freedom of movement. A sculpted robe means the character can't sit even if he has articulated knees. When the ROTS Obi-Wan pilot was released, people were praising it and I didn't like it. Not until I took the plastic robe off and looked at the rest of the figure did I notice how good the rest of the figure was, though I still had some issues with it. The sculpted cape on the concept Han Solo throws off the center of balance and make it hard to keep him standing without him being hunched over. I think that is my least favorite thing about all of the concept figures. Other figures with sculpted robes and capes make it hard to get the foot on a foot peg. The new Darth Vader/Anakin and Obi-Wan have the right mix of plastic and cloth for non-robed figures.

Poor likeness - I guess some of these are personal preferences, as I thought the VOTC Lando looked all right. Even the smuggler Lando didn't bother me. I think that was more the expression and the eyes that were painted oddly. They both have shallow peg holes though. That is my pet peeve. I can certainly agree that TAC Tatooine Luke didn't look all that much like Luke.

Scale - I was recently noticing how puny TAC 2-1B is compared to POTF2 2-1B.

Since Hasbro revisits core characters, I think it is important to let them know what we want when they get around to making them. They just don't usually rank as high on my want list as all new figures.

majikmonkee
04-03-2008, 12:34 PM
Perhaps I'm too easily pleased, but I was satisfied with most of the core characters as of mid to late POTF2, POTJ, and Commtech era OT fig releases. I haven't really had any desire to snag any of the new sculpts since the Saga collection began. I'm not really concerned about articulation either, I'd rather have a nice, solid figure who only bends as much as your average POTF2 figure than a super poseable figure who has lots of visible joints and only half a head to they can give him a huge range of neck motion. I did buy the Jabba's palace Luke when it came out, and I agree that they really nailed the head and body sculpt, but when you consider that I was upgrading from the orange carded POTF2 Jedi Luke, that one badly needed an update.

I hate soft goods. I think in some cases, they are an excuse to not have to take the time to sculpt a good looking cape or cloak. I like the capes and cloaks that are made from soft, bendable plastic, like the ROTS Pilot Ob-Wan had. I do agree soft goods have a place on the lower body if you're giving a figure extra leg articulation, but remember, I don't really care that much about articulation myself.

I know I haven't addressed nearly all the points made in the original post, but I can safely say I have no interest in requesting any new sculpts of core characters, I'd rather see that energy directed toward giving us decent sculpts of some of the EU core characters like Kyle Katarn or Dash Rendar or the like...

Sinscia Fat'o
04-03-2008, 12:37 PM
Wow were to begin? I disagree with A LOT said in this thread. Let's start at the begining.

Soft Goods: I love soft goods and i hope Hasbro keeps up the great work on it. I own virtually every figure that have soft goods on it, and i have never noticed any of them having weird angles. I loved the EVO Emperor with soft goods, i actually will never buy another Emperor unless he comes with a throne... that's how awesome i think this figure is. Order 66 Anakin i can't comment on because i've never seen one and i don't like to judge unless i have one in hand. Over all the worse use of soft goods i've ever seen, but it wasn't so bad that it made me hate the figure was VOTC Luke Skywalker (ANH). His soft goods tunic, or shirt which ever you prefer was a little to short on the bottom and a little to puffy on the top, as TAC Tatooine Luke Skywalker goes i loved that figure, the soft goods on the vest i thought was cool and different and made me purchase this figure when i would have passed.

Joints: I've been with Hasbro/Kenner since the days of Vintage, and back then the figures had what 5 points of movement? Now or days we have some figures with 18-20 points of movement that's three times the motion than a vintage, and three times the movement of an average POTF2 figure. So why complain? We're actually getting our money worth in these figures now. Do some of the joints to be well disguised? If it's possiable. But does Hasbro need to go with Sculpt over Articulation? Please god no!!! I'll take a big bulkly joint over a static does nothing arm or leg any day. And has anyone noticed since Hasbro joined the 21st century in toys that figures actually stand up now?

Ball Joint Necks: I love them! If you customize figures like a good chunk of collectors and ever kids do, then Ball Joint necks are a god's send. Do they need to be better in some cases? Sure. There's always need for improvement. VOTC Leia (Endor) TAC Luke, were all named bad examples of this but what about VOTC Han Solo, Comic Packs Kir Kanos, TAC Biggs Darklighter (Tatooine), All really great examples of Ball jointed necks. Personally i liked VOTC Leia as he neck doesn't look that big to me.

VOTC Han Solo...I have and will never buy another Han Solo again. Why should I? VOTC has the best possiable likeness, the best articulation, the only reason i would buy another is just exactly what Big Barada said, as if they made a figure just like this one, but with a removable vest or a soft goods vest.

As for R2-D2, i agree with you on some issues here and i think we need a ultimate R2 with all of his gadgets and gimmicks ETC. I would pay 20 bucks for a great R2-D2 but the VOTC, or Saga R2 doesn't cut it for me even though i do like the Hoth one, and the TAC Endor one...Which are pretty much the same figure.

disimproving likenesses, I agree with a lot that has been said here...some figures such as Tatooine Luke from TAC could have been improved on (Even though i liked the figure...it could use some work.) Leia's first VOTC figure i thought had the doll face going and i hate that on this kind of figure, and even VOTC Leia Endor suffers from this to some degree, but they at least tried a little more on the endor than the ANH version of Leia. Though Chewie is the end all be all of figures hands down.

inconsistent scale Yep, something needs to be done here...at least they are going in the right direction. Look at the wookies from ROTS (Those figures at least had it right in the scale department even though they suck all the way around the board in every other way.) Chewie again is the stand out, while i think the TAC Jawa and all of the R2-D2 figures except for the VOTC one suffer in this catagory. I also must say C-3P0 is another good example. Saga Endor C-3P0 is a great figure but it lacks the scale value of VOTC one.

Over all, yes there are a lot of problems with the line, but i might ask is there really a problem? Because let's face it, the day they make a perfect main character is the day the line ends...

majikmonkee
04-03-2008, 12:45 PM
I just don't really care for soft goods because they have a tendency to shift out of place when you handle the figure, and hoods and cloaks tend to flare out on figures rather than "hanging" like they should, since gravity doesn't pull on small pieces of cloth like it does a full size cloak. I'm definitely not trashing them all around, just saying I prefer the figures that don't have them. At least they've made an effort to improve on the old plastic "capes" the vintage figures used to wear. If I saw that Order 66 Anakin in the store, though, and he looked just like he does in that picture, I'd run...far, far away.

Devo
04-03-2008, 01:40 PM
Alright I think I know what my problem is. There are all these issues that bother me, but these same issues aren't even seen as 'issues' by some others - I don't understand it but what can I say. Some love soft-goods in virtually all its applications whilst I hate it in almost all its applications, some love ball-jointed heads while I generally can't stand them - but these days Hasbro are only catering to one side of this divide...and it aint mine. All core characters, with few exceptions, are being burdened with ball-jointed heads and soft-goods are being used on key characters where I really wish there would be a plastic, more realistic looking alternative.

I have this terrible feeling that when Hasbro next do a ROTJ Emperor they're going to go the soft-goods route again - they're going to try to 'improve' that ridiculous Evolutions soft-goods robe (possible only to a minimal extent if you ask me). Fine for those of you who just can't stand the idea of a salt-shaker....but what about my preferance for a figure that actually looks like what its supposed to be right out of the box? Because I will take an excellent, accurate sculpt over a figure that barely resembles what its based on when its obcured inside some oversized cloth piece that sticks out everywhere it shouldn't. People complained about that Saga Emperor with its ridiculous huge hood and they were right to...but I don't see how the likes of the Evolutions Emperor is any better. So when Hasbro dish out a new Soft-goods Emperor and it inevitably ends up looking out of place next to all those sculpted troops in a Death Star II diorama, where will be my nice new plastic alternative?...I won't get one, I'll be sticking to POTF2, not by choice but because theres no better alternative. I'll also be asking where my cool new Death Star II Jedi Luke is, the one that does have a lower jaw and whose hair doesn't stick out 5 feet at the back - which I think is more important than the ability to tilt his head. I more than likely won't have one. I'll have to settle for an anatomical mutant...unless Hasbro pulls off one of those rarities of a ball-joint head that actually looks alright. But I won't start praising ball-joint heads if they happen to get it right on one figure when its a needless risk in the first place.

edit: I will add that IMO minimal and considered Soft-goods use is perfectly fine where a good or at least 'not bad' result is able to be guaranteed - such as on the new Obi-wan and Anakin figures - and the lower parts of jedi tunics generally. However I think full robes rarely turn out right, and entire tunics and jackets are very ill-advised.

bigbarada
04-03-2008, 01:44 PM
inconsistent scale Yep, something needs to be done here...at least they are going in the right direction. Look at the wookies from ROTS (Those figures at least had it right in the scale department even though they suck all the way around the board in every other way.) Chewie again is the stand out, while i think the TAC Jawa and all of the R2-D2 figures except for the VOTC one suffer in this catagory. I also must say C-3P0 is another good example. Saga Endor C-3P0 is a great figure but it lacks the scale value of VOTC one.

I like the fact that we're seeing all the figures properly scaled to each other. Sure some of them end up on the small side, but that's supposed to be balanced out with the larger figures like Chewbacca and Hermi Odle. Unfortunately, Hasbro hasn't been doing as good of a job of balancing out the waves; but that problem's existed since the vintage days.

I'm not sure what you mean about the astromechs. Are you referring to the scale of one droid to another? If so then I agree completely. We really need new R3 and R4 units using the newer astromech sculpts.

majikmonkee
04-03-2008, 01:53 PM
Alright I think I know what my problem is. There are all these issues that bother me, but these same issues aren't even seen as 'issues' by some others - I don't understand it but what can I say. Some love soft-goods in virtually all its applications whilst I hate it in almost all its applications, some love ball-jointed heads while I generally can't stand them - but these days Hasbro are only catering to one side of this divide...and it aint mine. All core characters, with few exceptions, are being burdened with ball-jointed heads and soft-goods are being used on key characters where I really wish there would be a plastic, more realistic looking alternative.

I have this terrible feeling that when Hasbro next do a ROTJ Emperor they're going to go the soft-goods route again - they're going to try to 'improve' that ridiculous Evolutions soft-goods robe (possible only to a minimal extent if you ask me). Fine for those of you who just can't stand the idea of a salt-shaker....but what about my preferance for a figure that actually looks like what its supposed to be right out of the box? Because I will take an excellent, accurate sculpt over a figure that barely resembles what its based on when its obcured inside some oversized cloth piece that sticks out everywhere it shouldn't. People complained about that Saga Emperor with its ridiculous huge hood and they were right to...but I don't see how the likes of the Evolutions Emperor is any better. So when Hasbro dish out a new Soft-goods Emperor and it inevitably ends up looking out of place next to all those sculpted troops in a Death Star II diorama, where will be my nice new plastic alternative?...I won't get one, I'll be sticking to POTF2.

In case my reply got lost in the shuffle, you're not alone. I'm of the old school that loves sculpted plastic and dislikes soft goods, simply because cloth pieces on that scale don't emulate full size cloth garments in any way. Kenner and Hasbro have done some wonderful looking plastic capes and cloaks, I wish they would keep doing them. My favorite thing about the Sith Legacy Evo set was the decided lack of soft goods included. I don't like excessive joints or articulation either, anything that robs the figures of their ability to look like miniaturized versions of the character they represent, and every little joint or visible screw hole or head that doesn't merge neatly into the neck it's sitting on takes away from that appearance. Maybe I'm not evolving with the times, but at the same time, maybe Hasbro is evolving too fast (I'm just thankful at very least they've abandoned the over the top poses or "action features" the early AOTC figures had...ugh)...

Sinscia Fat'o
04-03-2008, 02:22 PM
I like the fact that we're seeing all the figures properly scaled to each other. Sure some of them end up on the small side, but that's supposed to be balanced out with the larger figures like Chewbacca and Hermi Odle. Unfortunately, Hasbro hasn't been doing as good of a job of balancing out the waves; but that problem's existed since the vintage days.

I'm not sure what you mean about the astromechs. Are you referring to the scale of one droid to another? If so then I agree completely. We really need new R3 and R4 units using the newer astromech sculpts.

Yes, I wish the droids had a little more scale to them as not all R units are created equally.

Devo
04-03-2008, 02:37 PM
Ball Joint Necks: I love them! If you customize figures like a good chunk of collectors and ever kids do, then Ball Joint necks are a god's send. ...

This I don't get. Sure, in theory its easier to pop the head off a neck post than it is to have to boil a figure and then use force to yank the head out of the body - but in practice all these Ball-jointed heads are not cross-compatible. Some are but not all. Either one of the heads is physically too big for the other body or the socket is too shallow for the other figures neck post to fit inside resulting in a giraffe neck. I think I've managed about 2 crossovers where there were no compatability issues to contend with. And I honestly don't recall back in the says of swivel necks there being a comparable amount of scale discrepancies between figure heads that we have today. Things were more uniform then if you ask me.

Sinscia Fat'o
04-03-2008, 02:40 PM
Alright I think I know what my problem is. There are all these issues that bother me, but these same issues aren't even seen as 'issues' by some others - I don't understand it but what can I say. Some love soft-goods in virtually all its applications whilst I hate it in almost all its applications, some love ball-jointed heads while I generally can't stand them - but these days Hasbro are only catering to one side of this divide...and it aint mine. All core characters, with few exceptions, are being burdened with ball-jointed heads and soft-goods are being used on key characters where I really wish there would be a plastic, more realistic looking alternative.

I have this terrible feeling that when Hasbro next do a ROTJ Emperor they're going to go the soft-goods route again - they're going to try to 'improve' that ridiculous Evolutions soft-goods robe (possible only to a minimal extent if you ask me). Fine for those of you who just can't stand the idea of a salt-shaker....but what about my preferance for a figure that actually looks like what its supposed to be right out of the box? Because I will take an excellent, accurate sculpt over a figure that barely resembles what its based on when its obcured inside some oversized cloth piece that sticks out everywhere it shouldn't. People complained about that Saga Emperor with its ridiculous huge hood and they were right to...but I don't see how the likes of the Evolutions Emperor is any better. So when Hasbro dish out a new Soft-goods Emperor and it inevitably ends up looking out of place next to all those sculpted troops in a Death Star II diorama, where will be my nice new plastic alternative?...I won't get one, I'll be sticking to POTF2, not by choice but because theres no better alternative. I'll also be asking where my cool new Death Star II Jedi Luke is, the one that does have a lower jaw and whose hair doesn't stick out 5 feet at the back - which I think is more important than the ability to tilt his head. I more than likely won't have one. I'll have to settle for an anatomical mutant...unless Hasbro pulls off one of those rarities of a ball-joint head that actually looks alright. But I won't start praising ball-joint heads if they happen to get it right on one figure when its a needless risk in the first place.

I do understand how you feel. Because i was saying the same thing about SW figures during the POTF2 Era, POTJ era, Episode one, Two, ETC...I hated the salt and pepper shaker figures with a untold (until now) passion. I think what we're seeing now is the evolution of the line, and i'm very happy about the use of soft goods and the ball jointed heads and the such. It sucks to be on the other side of the fence, but i do understand. Though i'm willing to bet that hasbro will learn and correct a lot of the issues you have and learn how to optimize joints and ball joints in the near future.

Sinscia Fat'o
04-03-2008, 02:45 PM
This I don't get. Sure, in theory its easier to pop the head off a neck post than it is to have to boil a figure and then use force to yank the head out of the body - but in practice all these Ball-jointed heads are not cross-compatible. Some are but not all. Either one of the heads is physically too big for the other body or the socket is too shallow for the other figures neck post to fit inside resulting in a giraffe neck. I think I've managed about 2 crossovers where there were no compatability issues to contend with. And I honestly don't recall back in the says of swivel necks there being a comparable amount of scale discrepancies between figure heads that we have today. Things were more uniform then if you ask me.

They were, but it was nearly impossiable to take a head off the neck of the older figures. I hated the boiling as you said and customizing then would take weeks as of now it takes maybe one... I have not had that much problem with the ball jointed issues you mentioned, only in crossing lines such as GI Joe to Star wars, that did cause a few minor problems but nothing a little drimel couldn't cure. Out of the last three customs i've done the hardest thing to switch was hands, as the articulated hands inside the robes for jedi have caused a few headaches.

Devo
04-03-2008, 03:03 PM
In case my reply got lost in the shuffle, you're not alone. I'm of the old school that loves sculpted plastic and dislikes soft goods, simply because cloth pieces on that scale don't emulate full size cloth garments in any way. Kenner and Hasbro have done some wonderful looking plastic capes and cloaks, I wish they would keep doing them. My favorite thing about the Sith Legacy Evo set was the decided lack of soft goods included. I don't like excessive joints or articulation either, anything that robs the figures of their ability to look like miniaturized versions of the character they represent, and every little joint or visible screw hole or head that doesn't merge neatly into the neck it's sitting on takes away from that appearance. Maybe I'm not evolving with the times, but at the same time, maybe Hasbro is evolving too fast (I'm just thankful at very least they've abandoned the over the top poses or "action features" the early AOTC figures had...ugh)...


I didn't miss your posts no. I suppose theres a tendency to 'react' primarily to posts that disagree - I did enjoy reading someone else putting into words the same thoughts that I have. I think theres others even who haven't posted in this thread but who are members here and they agree on the balljoint head issue - I always forget who they are, you'd think I'd remember their boardnames because theres really not many, I lament to say.

You say one thing particularly that strikes me - "anything that robs the figures of their ability to look like miniaturized versions of the character they represent"....I dare you to look again at that picture I linked of the Evolutions Emperor. Could it look any less like what its supposed to be?

And speaking of that figure again, obviously what Hasbro were trying to do was make it an All-Purpose figure - this is why I'm having problems liking the new core characters Hasbro are doing - and why I'm simultaneously loving all the obscure background characters they're making. All those figures actually need is to look good standing around but with the main characters people want that they can do everything...which is where SA comes in and where softgoods inevitably do also. I wish they'd just make 3 Emperors like they did in POTF2 - one who sits, one who stands pointing his old finger and another who throws force lightning...just update all those figures seperately and make more money from us.

Devo
04-03-2008, 03:12 PM
Though i'm willing to bet that hasbro will learn and correct a lot of the issues you have and learn how to optimize joints and ball joints in the near future.

This is perhaps what frustrates me most - Hasbro have done figures with brilliantly executed articulation that is barely noticeable....and then they give us TAC jedi Luke. Its the inconsistency that troubles me and why I find it harder to be optimistic than you do. DSII luke might end up a brilliant figure even by my standards (and Hasbros own past standards)...but then again he may well not.

bigbarada
04-03-2008, 05:03 PM
Yes, I wish the droids had a little more scale to them as not all R units are created equally.

I agree then. For a minute there I was thinking that you were asking for the astromechs to be made the same size as the human characters so they would be more of a value for the price.:stupid:

Anyways, aside from nitpicky stuff, the Hoth Artoo is an amazingly accurate representation of the droid. I think the figure is almost at the prop replica level of accuracy for a 4" scale, $7 toy.

JediTricks
04-03-2008, 09:37 PM
OK if I'm honest I've never particularly scrutinised and compared with film all the R2 sculpts and I may have overstated the extent to which his figures rile me. I mentioned him because he's a main character, I've read many times that people wanted the R4-G9 sculpt rather than the VOTC, and therefore added him to my 'list' of 'failed' core character figures Hasbro put out this year. That was more about the lack of chrome dome (which I agree with) and the retractable leg and the middle panel than sculpt quality.


I'm also forced to admit that the TAC jabbas palace head and the '04 Saga jabbas palace luke head are one and the same - but my god does that head not suit the ball-joint treatment! To me it looks like a really bad amateur custom job and not something a toy company-proper should have put out. I'm pretty sure someone else put it this way before I did - but the balljointing on that head makes it look like a Bobblehead figure - some sort of caricature. The poorer repaint doesn't help. I'm surprised to see you say JT "there's nothing really wrong with that head IMO except for the likeness, but that's due to the Saga figure's sculpt from 3 years prior being a lesser sculpt". Maybe I misunderstand you but I think and always did think that the 04 Saga JP Luke has an excellent sculpt - and is far superior as it was painted originally on that figure than has been done in 2007. I don't see a significant difference in aesthetic between Saga and TAC Luke's likenesses, I see no such "bobble head" issue on the latter, and the neck joint doesn't make the figure look bad to me.

In '04, it was a very good likeness of the character, but as the technology has progressed and there's a huge piece of artwork on the card comparing the figure to the character for the TAC version, the issues stand out. Paint also hurts, as the hair is not as good and the eyes are a massive step backwards on the TAC version (larger and looking upwards and angry-eyebrows).


As to the Fett issue, I still think the 300th figure has the better headsculpt, if not the 'bigger'. Having them both in my hand I see that you're actually probably right in your observations JT, the difference is negligible and thanks for bothering enough to actually check this out. It could be a combination of the 300th figure's more downward pointing shoulder pads, the paintjob and the fact that its a solid head on a swivel neck that made me assume it was 'bigger' without having taken them both in hand to confirm. I don't know, my mind was telling me, and kind of still is, that the VOTC helmet has a more conical look to it. So alright this is subjective. I'd prefer to see the 300th figures' head on that new Evolutions body but obviously Hasbro wanted a removeable helmet and a (more) hollowed out VOTC head was the easier option.That's perception-based though, the VOTC Fett's neck joint is well-hidden, mine is in the same position as the 300th version and I can't see the neck at all, so it cannot be about the ball-jointing IMO. Anyway, the VOTC looks far more screen-accurate than the 300th, which looked good for its day but now has several little issues including the shape of the visor.

I did say in my review of the Fett legacy that the figures should have come with secondary helmet-only heads that worked on the same ball-joint. The thing is though, that joint cannot be the giant ball joint that the VOTC Stormtrooper & Fett use, that thing is ugly and inaccurate to movement, it has to be smaller and deeper in the helmet-head.



I'll never understand the fanbase's satisfaction with VOTC Han. The likeness isn't that good, the figure is skinny, the vest isn't removable, and the gunbelt is too big.

Devo
04-04-2008, 06:04 PM
I'll never understand the fanbase's satisfaction with VOTC Han. The likeness isn't that good, the figure is skinny, the vest isn't removable, and the gunbelt is too big.

I'm sure I must have put him in a thread I started - 'figures you hate and yet everyone else loves' if memory serves....OK I don't hate the VOTC Han in and of itself. Its too skinny but at least its uniformly skinny unlike any Han figure since that has had a bulky torso on those stick legs. However the anorexia coupled with the headsculpt not being up to much (hair too short and too dark IMO) prevents it being a definitive ANH Han. I've also never liked the forward lean of the neck. I think its the articulation that fuels most people's enthusiasm for the figure and makes them overlook the anorexia - and the articulation certainly is good, it works well and its not too noticeable. This is the irony when Hasbro put out figures with huge sticky-out balljoints. Figures on whom the jointing could have and should have been hidden better end up looking worse than a skinny figure like VOTC Han or even a naked figure like TAC tattoo Anakin.

JediTricks
04-04-2008, 11:42 PM
Yeah, that thread exists and I posted VOTC Han on there in my list. You are right that it's consistent in scale, and it's not HORRIBLE really, it's just not the end-all be-all that many collectors make it out to be.

majikmonkee
04-07-2008, 12:21 PM
You say one thing particularly that strikes me - "anything that robs the figures of their ability to look like miniaturized versions of the character they represent"....I dare you to look again at that picture I linked of the Evolutions Emperor. Could it look any less like what its supposed to be?

And speaking of that figure again, obviously what Hasbro were trying to do was make it an All-Purpose figure - this is why I'm having problems liking the new core characters Hasbro are doing - and why I'm simultaneously loving all the obscure background characters they're making. All those figures actually need is to look good standing around but with the main characters people want that they can do everything...which is where SA comes in and where softgoods inevitably do also. I wish they'd just make 3 Emperors like they did in POTF2 - one who sits, one who stands pointing his old finger and another who throws force lightning...just update all those figures seperately and make more money from us.

I totally agree...that Evo Emperor has some serious issues in my book. It's a good figure poseability wise and all, but the soft goods robe and the strange face are sort of the kiss of death to me. They tried too hard to make him Palpatine/Darth Sideous/Emperor Palp and instead of nailing a figure who represents all three, it really feels like a figure that doesn't capture any one of them well. With the exception of Artoo, I don't feel any character can be made that will represent their likenesses in three films, and definitely not spanning four movies. I'm happier buying single figures from individual films who accurately represent that character at that point in time than an "all purpose" version that tries to cram several figures into one.

On the topic of Palpatine, considering how he's come to be a more central figure since the prequel trilogy arrived (I always saw him that way), he's gotten some shameful treatment figure wise in the past few years. I'd have to say the POTF2 figure of him still bears the closest resemblence of them all...

Devo
04-07-2008, 03:38 PM
Well I'm still using the POTF2 emperors to this day - they were never bad figures, I just know with modern sculpting they could be better - the 'material' of the robes could be sculpted to look more realistic. As they are they're a bit 'smooth&shiny' looking. Unfortunately I don't think we're ever going to get proper resculpts, not as long as Hasbro is on this softgoods bandwagon. As far as I'm concerned if they want to continue trying softgoods on the Emperor then they might aswell just rerelease the Evolutions figure.

For me, if it barely looks like what its supposed to be then whats the point? Why call it 'The Emperor'? Its a waste of the license.

Sinscia Fat'o
04-07-2008, 03:50 PM
Well I'm still using the POTF2 emperors to this day - they were never bad figures, I just know with modern sculpting they could be better - the 'material' of the robes could be sculpted to look more realistic. As they are they're a bit 'smooth&shiny' looking. Unfortunately I don't think we're ever going to get proper resculpts, not as long as Hasbro is on this softgoods bandwagon. As far as I'm concerned if they want to continue trying softgoods on the Emperor then they might aswell just rerelease the Evolutions figure.

For me, if it barely looks like what its supposed to be then whats the point? Why call it 'The Emperor'? Its a waste of the license.

The Emperor EVO. wasn't aimed to please the entire fan base IMHO. It was targeted to the fans who want their figures to be articulated, and have the soft goods treatment so they can actually sit down, just in case they ever make the throne for us...as i'm sure we all can agree the throne is a must for the Emperor.

As for something that has the sculpt and detail of a great figure, why not the Darth Sidious figure from the Episode one line? That figure i used until i got the Evolution figure for my collection. It has the detail and paint apps that most of us die hards can enjoy.

As for Han, i really don't pay attention to him being overly skinny as Han is rather slender in ANH, i really call that figure the definitive Han Solo because of the articulation, and the head sculpt, as i don't think Hasbro has ever captured the likness of Han (Mr. Ford) in such a accurate degree. That and he can actually sit in the Falcon...without throwing his feet on the dash.

majikmonkee
04-07-2008, 03:55 PM
I agree on a couple counts here - that Sideous from TPM was very well done, and I used him as my Emp for quite a while. Ignoring the shade of his skin, the shape of his face, his robes, and most everything else are very well done. I'd forgotten about him...he was one of the good ones.

That ANH Han sculpt, if it's the one I'm thinking of, is slender, but I think that's attributed to the actual tight fitting costume Han wore in that film. The figure has never bothered me, if he's too think, it never stood out for me. My favorite Han I own is the Bespin Han with the blue jacket. Can't remember if he was POTJ or POTF2, but he's got straight arms with rotating elbows, and he looks very cool IMHO...

Devo
04-07-2008, 05:18 PM
Sure ANH Han didn't exactly wear bulky clothes but its plain to see how skinny he is by comparing his arms and legs to every other Han figure ever done...or an even worse indictment, compare him to Luke and Leia figures. He should be bigger than that. This anorexia is the reason I never retired any commtech Hans and won't as long as they keep putting this guy out.

Episode I Sidious is a cool figure by me but he doesn't really do for a ROTJ Emperor - the sleeves, though I'm sure fine for TPM, are too big and the likeness is fairly generic.

The evolutions Emperor, with his soft-goods, may be able to sit down on his throne - but he probably doesn't look good doing it. Thats the pitfall of softgoods - sure it enables articulation - but it still looks terrible - it is still only with difficulty that you can get it to look realistic. For my sitting Emperor I'll be sticking to the cinema scene figure.

Sinscia Fat'o
04-07-2008, 06:05 PM
Can you remove the Cinema Scene Emperor with the Throne from his throne or is he stuck in it? I don't think the EVO Emperor would look to bad in it, it just might take a few minutes to pose him right, the hood on the emperor from the EVO. line is my only real dislike, but even that i stretched it out a little to make it look like it has a little more depth on the sides.

El Chuxter
04-07-2008, 06:26 PM
Are you talking about the Emperor from the old Death Star Duel Cinema Scene (ten or so years back)? He isn't attached to the throne, but is permanently sculpted in a seated position with a flat butt, so he's useless for any other purpose.

I haven't tried fitting another Palpatine in the throne, but that's not a bad idea....

majikmonkee
04-08-2008, 07:48 AM
I like the sitting Emperor on the throne, he looks just like what he's meant to be - a sitting Emperor. I have others for his standing poses. His flat butt is perfectly designed for the purpose of sitting.

Yeah, the sleeves are a little long on Sid. I think they tried to make his face "shadowy", which is hard to do on a figure when shadows arent really being cast, it verified for me though when TPM came out that Sid and Palp were the same person, because what you could see of the faces on the figures was so similar. His robe is a little bluer than I like for a Palpatine too.

I must make a correction here. I thought the Han I was defending yesterday was the newer sculpt, but I guess the one I like so well is the Commtech Han (though I still like the Bespin one better). I can't speak for "skinny Han", I guess I never bought him.

DarthBrandon
04-08-2008, 09:47 AM
I'm done with core characters even though some are not quite up to par. You can take parts of just about every Han/Luke etc & make a decent one if you tried. I hope to see at least a good Palpy in his maroon/red robes that is articulated just like the evolutions Palpy, but I'm sure Hasbro would screw up something or another. (the face sculpt most likely) I'd better not ask for one.lol

majikmonkee
04-08-2008, 11:18 AM
You might be better off just getting some maroon paint and a POTF2 Palp and making your own... :P

Devo
04-08-2008, 01:08 PM
I must make a correction here. I thought the Han I was defending yesterday was the newer sculpt, but I guess the one I like so well is the Commtech Han (though I still like the Bespin one better). I can't speak for "skinny Han", I guess I never bought him.

The newer Han you might be thinking of is the Falcon gunner Han - again, in and of itself, a good figure IMO. However as its based mainly on the VOTC Han it too is quite skinny...uniformly skinny (i.e his torso matches the skinniness of the rest of him) but still a bit too on the thin side when compared with figures of other characters.

I'm still fond of the commtech figure, more limited in its poseability but the sculpt still looks decent even by recent standards IMO and it has no weight issues. And POTJ Bespin capture Han remains the best Bespin outfit version of the character available to us. The Torture rack figure was an abomination apart from the rack itself. I'm actually looking to pick up more of the POTJ Bespin Han figure because I have doubts we'll see a decent resculpt anytime soon after the TAC version and when they do I can see it still being based on VOTC. Hasbro are really loving their work there.

bigbarada
04-08-2008, 01:12 PM
Hasbro are really loving their work there.

They're not the only ones.:love:

majikmonkee
04-08-2008, 01:14 PM
I passed on the gunner Han because of the head set. I'm glad I did now, seems like the Commtech Han was still one of the good ones, and I like Commtech Luke much better than the Evap Luke. I missed out on the torture rack because that Han looked so bad when I saw him. I don't care much for figures designed just to capture one moment in time that don't otherwise look like them (any of the angry face or open mouth Mace Windu figs, or that horrible throne room duel Luke). That Bespin Han is still my favorite, and I wish I had the rack without the "tortured" Han fig cause I'd be content putting the old Bespin Han on if he'd fit.

Devo
04-08-2008, 05:40 PM
I'm going against the grain again but I like the Saga throne room Luke. The new DSII Luke, no matter how superarticulated, will more than likely not be able to achieve the Saga figure's pose - for that reason I'm glad to have that much hated figure. Everyone thinks its terrible because its useless for everything other than that 1 scene - for me the only things wrong are the action feature, the button sticking out the back and maybe the outfit is a bit on the shiny side. I think the headsculpt is fine for angry Luke and, for the scene its intended to represent, the pose is perfect. To sum up, I think Saga Throne room Luke is actually a great figure for what it is - a scene-specific Luke.

The new Bespin Han is harder to justify precisely because of superarticulation. The face suggests scene-specific sculpting and yet the rest of the figure is apparently 'all-purpose'. Yet taken off the rack its clear the anatomical proportions are so obviously wrong. And the hair appears to be blown backwards - the scene dictates that the hair fall forward if anything so the headsculpt even gets it wrong on the scene accuracy front. Had the figure effectively been a statue I wouldn't have complained as much - I'd have known definitively that this was intended as a one scene figure, and thats all we ought to have considered it good for. But they teased us with superarticulation and made us worry that, as far as they were concerned this was the new Bespin Han - no need to readdress this outfit for a few more years. Thats the troublesome thing about the Torture Rack figure and why I think the figure itself is worse than the reviled Saga throne room Luke. I knew then, as I know now that Hasbro didn't and don't consider that Luke a definitive DSII Luke - it was just a stopgap. I hope Hasbro redo Bespin Han in his entirety - no recycled parts - but I worry they'll just use TAC Bespin Han as the basis for a retool.

JediTricks
04-08-2008, 10:21 PM
Devo, I poorly converted the TAC ROTJ Luke to DS2 Luke (no belt and there's a small gap at the waist because the peg is designed that way) and it actually does a really good job of that pose IMO, the arms aren't quite as bendy but it wasn't designed to do this, they could sculpt a new version with similar aesthetics to go further into it. And the leg pose on mine is way better. And he doesn't look like a bad Harpo Marx gookie face.

majikmonkee
04-09-2008, 07:38 AM
Devo, I poorly converted the TAC ROTJ Luke to DS2 Luke (no belt and there's a small gap at the waist because the peg is designed that way) and it actually does a really good job of that pose IMO, the arms aren't quite as bendy but it wasn't designed to do this, they could sculpt a new version with similar aesthetics to go further into it. And the leg pose on mine is way better. And he doesn't look like a bad Harpo Marx gookie face.

I converted my one and only DSII Luke into a Reborn from Jedi Outcast. Fits the face and pose much better in my estimation than it did a Luke.

JediTricks
04-10-2008, 07:54 PM
I never played Outcast unfortunately, but I did see your custom and thought it worked pretty well for this: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Reborn

majikmonkee
04-11-2008, 07:33 AM
I never played Outcast unfortunately, but I did see your custom and thought it worked pretty well for this: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Reborn

Yeah, I like the figure much better that way. You can't really even see his face in the stance the figure usually takes, and when you do, it doesn't bear much of a likeness to Luke when it's shrouded that way (which is a good thing).