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View Full Version : " No more training do you require, already know you, that which you need."



Battle Droid
02-14-2002, 09:28 PM
If Luke doesn't require anymore training, why does Yoda say a little while after that, that Luke must complete with his training.

2-1B
02-14-2002, 09:43 PM
I believe he was referring to Luke's hastiness in leaving for Bespin in ESB and the subsequent duel with Vader. Yoda said, "not ready for the burden were you."

stillakid
02-14-2002, 10:47 PM
Yoda neglected to tell Luke about the Midichlorian's. It was on the syllabus for the next day...but Luke took off.

Rollo Tomassi
02-15-2002, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by stillakid
Yoda neglected to tell Luke about the Midichlorian's. It was on the syllabus for the next day...but Luke took off.

Heh. It wasn't so much Jedi Training as it was a weekend seminar...:)

Starfig873
02-15-2002, 11:33 AM
Well I'm sure there are different types of force training. It appeared that Luke was good with the physical training part, and he might have just passed that. *shrugs* once again, I'm just thinking up stuff here.

stillakid
02-15-2002, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by Starfig873
Well I'm sure there are different types of force training. It appeared that Luke was good with the physical training part, and he might have just passed that. *shrugs* once again, I'm just thinking up stuff here.


Hmm, maybe you're right. They neglected to show us the classroom portion and subsequent long essay and comprehension exam. We didn't see "shop" where he would've learned how to build a lightsaber or Biology, where we all would have heard about the Midi's. But of course, I've brought that up before. Sorry.:rolleyes:

Rollo Tomassi
02-15-2002, 05:22 PM
There was actually more training footage on Dagobah that got cut/never filmed. There was a scene where Yoda threw up a metal bar and told Luke to cut into pieces before it the ground. And there was a scene where Luke is up against the training spheres like he was in the hold on the Falcon in ANH. But either G. Lu or Kershner said "Okay. He's training. We get it." and dropped a bunch of them in order to move the story along.

Nothing about Midis, though.;)

stillakid
02-15-2002, 06:07 PM
:eek: never?


;)

Rollo Tomassi
02-16-2002, 01:28 AM
Well, not in ESB. but here's the original cut from ANH...

Han: Well you can forget about those imperial slugs. I told you I'd outrun 'em. (pause) Don't everybody thank me at onc...HEY! (looks at console) Who left my Midichlorian counter turned on??!

Ben: Sorry. I was just checking the boy's Midi count.

Luke: A whatty count?

Ben: Never mind. It was already explained to your father thirty two years ago. Doing so now would be redundant.

Luke: :confused:

Han: Yeah, but the "big guy" has a thing for recurring themes. I wouldn't be suprised if the kid here loses a limb at some point in the future.

Luke: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Ben: Or perhaps you are a clone of a famous Bounty Hunter.

Han: Let's not go there...

Luke: WHAT ARE YOU GUYS TALKING ABOUT?!?:mad: :mad: :mad:

Ben: Never mind. Here put this blast helmet on...

Battle Droid
02-16-2002, 01:34 AM
Getting off subject, but it's sad when Yoda dies, and Luke see's the light go out in his Hut.

Brings a tear to my eye everytime.

I feel sorry for Yoda that he had to live & die in that slimey mudhole.

stillakid
02-16-2002, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by Rollo Tomassi
Well, not in ESB. but here's the original cut from ANH...

Han: Well you can forget about those imperial slugs. I told you I'd outrun 'em. (pause) Don't everybody thank me at onc...HEY! (looks at console) Who left my Midichlorian counter turned on??!

Ben: Sorry. I was just checking the boy's Midi count.

Luke: A whatty count?

Ben: Never mind. It was already explained to your father thirty two years ago. Doing so now would be redundant.

Luke: :confused:

Han: Yeah, but the "big guy" has a thing for recurring themes. I wouldn't be suprised if the kid here loses a limb at some point in the future.

Luke: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Ben: Or perhaps you are a clone of a famous Bounty Hunter.

Han: Let's not go there...

Luke: WHAT ARE YOU GUYS TALKING ABOUT?!?:mad: :mad: :mad:

Ben: Never mind. Here put this blast helmet on...


Not to be redundant, and I don't want to repeat myself :rolleyes:, but that interchange EXACTLY proves why Midi's don't belong anywhere in the Universe. Just too silly of a concept all 'round. But, what a great idea for a fan film, though...a "rewrite" of the OT to include Midi's, Qui Gon, and all the other assorted "inconsistencies" of the prequels. If I had the time and resources ($), I'd do it myself.

Rollo Tomassi
02-16-2002, 12:32 PM
Slimy? Mudhole?? His home that was! Just because you think it was icky, doesn't mean the Yodster wasn't peaches and cream in his little hut. Maybe he liked being alone with his thoughts and be able to just Jeditate.


Stillakid, I thought it was mildly amusing that Han Solo would have a Midi counter on the Falcon in the first place...just in case.:rolleyes: ;) :)

stillakid
02-16-2002, 01:05 PM
Originally posted by Rollo Tomassi


Stillakid, I thought it was mildly amusing that Han Solo would have a Midi counter on the Falcon in the first place...just in case.:rolleyes: ;) :)


Based on TPM, they were apparently a standard installation on all interstellar spacecraft, along with the radio jamming equipment and hyperdrive. AM/FM/CD changer, sunroof, and Anti-lock brakes are extra.

Bel-Cam Jos
02-16-2002, 01:06 PM
See, Luke was supposed to be a Student Jedi or unpaid apprentice and Yoda was looking forward to being able to golf more often.

Other Jedi training Luke missed:
REALLY fast running
the Force push
battle meditation
braiding
IRS evasion
mustache shrinking
at-home envelope mailing
rotisserie cooking
Tae-Bo
moonwalking
speed reading
double jointed fingers
ear wiggling
the Macarana
karaoke

mark2d2
03-04-2002, 02:49 AM
Wait, actually, isn't the quote in question actually from ROTJ? "No more training do you require . . . " that's from when Luke returns to Degobah. It's not from ESB.

JEDIpartner
03-04-2002, 09:27 AM
I think because of the fact that Luke faced Vader and did not give in to the Dark Side that he passed the BIG TEST. I think it would be fair to say that the rest of the stuff would be easy in comparison. Wouldn't something like this usually have turned up at the end of a Padawan's basic training? I mean- certainly wouldn't think they would send a half-trained student off to face such a huge thing as the Dark Side of the Force.

Darkross
03-20-2002, 11:56 AM
Originally posted by JEDIpartnr
I think because of the fact that Luke faced Vader and did not give in to the Dark Side that he passed the BIG TEST. I think it would be fair to say that the rest of the stuff would be easy in comparison. Wouldn't something like this usually have turned up at the end of a Padawan's basic training? I mean- certainly wouldn't think they would send a half-trained student off to face such a huge thing as the Dark Side of the Force.

OK...well then how do you explain Qui Gon, Mace and hundreds of other Jedi Knights / Masters no longer being Padawans without facing a Sith? Since the Sith had been extinct for at least 1000 years...none of the Jedi...save Yoda and a few others would have ever met up with a Sith or even Duel a Sith.

Darkross
03-20-2002, 12:00 PM
Originally posted by Battle Droid
If Luke doesn't require anymore training, why does Yoda say a little while after that, that Luke must complete with his training.

"No more training do you require...already know you that what you need!" Yoda is referring to the training that he gave Luke in ESB...Yoda forsaw that Luke would abandon his training early and only taught him what he absolutely needed to know...how not to give into hate...etc... "Try what you have learned...save you (from the darkside) it can!"

Then in Jedi...Yoda doesn't say that Luke must complete his training...but rather refers that "incomplete was your training...that not ready for the burden were you!". "Only a fully trained Jedi Knight...with the Force as his allie can he conquer Vader and his Emperor" and Luke does this...once he becomes a Jedi Knight...at the very end of JEDI.

stillakid
03-20-2002, 01:03 PM
When Luke left Dagobah in ESB, he had some of the basic training on how to tap into the Force, but what he was missing was the control, both technically and emotionally. By the time he returns in ROTJ, he still is missing some of the basic training that Jedi in the prequels get (Midichlorians anyone?) but because he went through such an emotional and physical trial in the dragon's lair, Luke finished off his quest that began in ANH and "grew up." No longer the rash young naive farmboy looking for adventure, Luke matured enough that Yoda realized that he knew enough to be worthy of the Jedi title.

Dryanta
03-20-2002, 06:19 PM
If the sith had been gone for 1000 years yoda himself would have never faced one.He died at 900 years old.remember?
I really don't think facing a sith is a requirment for Jedi Knight status.But I do think that if you do face one and walk away from it you are given the title.See what I'm saying here?Obi wan said he was ready to"face the Trials" to be a Jedi Knight.But remember after defeting Maul the title was given to him.I'm assuming it was because of Maul not that it was Just because his Master was dead.
Luke too faced a Sith and lived to tell the tale.His defete of Vader wasn't a physical one but one of not being turned.The burden that Luke wasn't ready for was not facing a sith but dealing with the fact that the sith in question was his own father.It was very apparent his wasn't ready physically to face Vader.By the way, if Vader was deliberatley trying not to kill Luke He would have never put Vader down in ROTJ.He'd have been dead in seconds.IMHO.I just had to put that in there,sorry

Darkross
03-21-2002, 07:28 AM
Originally posted by Dryanta
Luke too faced a Sith and lived to tell the tale.His defete of Vader wasn't a physical one but one of not being turned.The burden that Luke wasn't ready for was not facing a sith but dealing with the fact that the sith in question was his own father.It was very apparent his wasn't ready physically to face Vader.By the way, if Vader was deliberatley trying not to kill Luke He would have never put Vader down in ROTJ.He'd have been dead in seconds.IMHO.I just had to put that in there,sorry

Yeah...but also...Yoda told Luke that he had to face Vader again...why is that? Well, probably because their first duel didn't really count, since Vader was only toying with Luke and wasn't trying to kill him.

Another thing...is that I don't think that Vader would have killed Luke in seconds in ROTJ, Luke drew from the darkside to defeat Vader...using his anger, hate I believe (for the Emperor - for turning Vader and possibly Leia to the darkside) to strike down Vader. Then once he did that...he refused to turn.

187-Maul
03-21-2002, 08:45 AM
I don't know but it seems to me that every jedi that kills a sith in the movies is - in that moment - full of hate
that means you have to be hatefull and use anger to destroy a powerful opponent - isn't that the exact same opposite of the Jedi-believes ?

Dryanta
03-21-2002, 09:39 AM
Darkross you are right about Luke useing his hate to put Vader down.My point is that Vader could have taken him out at the very beginning of the second confrontation.Before Luke even had the chance to get mad.Let alone On Bespin.
And I too seem to think that useing anger to defeat a sith is a recuring theme.Obi wan was preaty POed when took out Maul.

Darkross
03-21-2002, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by Dryanta
Darkross you are right about Luke useing his hate to put Vader down.My point is that Vader could have taken him out at the very beginning of the second confrontation.Before Luke even had the chance to get mad.Let alone On Bespin.
And I too seem to think that useing anger to defeat a sith is a recuring theme.Obi wan was preaty POed when took out Maul.

I'm not sure if hate is necessary...since OBI-WAN was POed...but he got careless in his anger and was knocked down into the (incinerator?) shaft. It wasn't until he calmed down, that he was able to draw on the light side of the force to jump and Force-pull Qui-Gon's lightsaber and then expoit Darth Maul's over-confidence and slice him in half when he least expected it.

stillakid
03-21-2002, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by Darkross


Yeah...but also...Yoda told Luke that he had to face Vader again...why is that? Well, probably because their first duel didn't really count, since Vader was only toying with Luke and wasn't trying to kill him.

Another thing...is that I don't think that Vader would have killed Luke in seconds in ROTJ, Luke drew from the darkside to defeat Vader...using his anger, hate I believe (for the Emperor - for turning Vader and possibly Leia to the darkside) to strike down Vader. Then once he did that...he refused to turn.

Luke having to face Vader again has absolutely nothing to do with some kind of checklist of requirements to become a Jedi. It is a more "spiritual" and intangible thing. In order to fully grow as human being and be free of his doubts, fears, desires (sins of the flesh), he needed to face his biggest test which just happened to be facing his father again. Running away or avoiding the conflict altogether would have left Luke in a kind of purgatory between ignorant youth and full fledged manhood. He knew what he needed to do before Yoda said it. It's a real Zen-Buddhist way of thinking. You need to let go, face your inner demons and if you're strong enough, you'll emerge on the other side victorious. Star Wars just took that kind of trial and personified it into the person of Luke Skywalker.

Yes, and Vader never really intended to kill Luke...never would have been able to bring himself to actually do it. The "good" was in there, enough so that he allowed himself to be beaten back. Luke apparently did draw on the darkside to take Vader down, but it took that momentary lapse to fully understand the path he was choosing, which in turn was depicted visually with the parallels between Vader's broken mechanical hand and Luke's gloved mechanical hand.

The Phantom Menace is so full of thematic and plot holes that it's difficult to make a fair comparison to the original trilogy. Young Obi Wan does appear to draw on his anger to take out Maul, which should be a warning flag for the darkside or something. But there is no indication (as of yet) that Obi Wan was supposed to be prone to that or if we (the audience) were to have considered the comparison to Luke's behavior in ROTJ. For what it's worth, I think that Lucas just wanted Ewan to play the character at a ramped up pace to throw some fire into the end of the fight. He did this without thinking of the implications that are being discussed here. Just another example of how little thought went into The Phantom Menace.

Dryanta
03-21-2002, 09:23 PM
Thanks for posting what I was trying to.I'm not al that articulate at times.
I too think Vader would not have been able to kill Luke.
My point is he easily had the ability to do so.See what I mean?I guess it was just me disagreeing with the opinion that Luke was actually a greater Jedi than Vader.That I don't see in terms of ability.In character?No doubt.In skill and shear power?NO way!!IMHO :D

stillakid
03-21-2002, 09:29 PM
The question of Vader's ability came up previously in a Vader vs. Maul discussion. Who knows for sure, but it seems like what Vader lacks in the speed and agility of the younger Maul, he makes up for in patient skill to overtake an enemy. Luke's "outburst" may in fact have physically overtaken the much older Vader, but if Darth really wanted to take the kid down, there shouldn't be any doubt of it.

Darkross
03-25-2002, 07:20 AM
Originally posted by stillakid
The question of Vader's ability came up previously in a Vader vs. Maul discussion. Who knows for sure, but it seems like what Vader lacks in the speed and agility of the younger Maul, he makes up for in patient skill to overtake an enemy. Luke's "outburst" may in fact have physically overtaken the much older Vader, but if Darth really wanted to take the kid down, there shouldn't be any doubt of it.

"Size matters not...look at me...judge me by my size do you?...it illuminates the weak...not this crude matter!!!" (refering to Luke's muscles).

The power of a Jedi or Sith has no bearing on their physical strength...as Yoda explains to Luke in ESB. I think that if Luke couldn't have defeated Vader...then Vader let Luke beat him. That I don't buy for a second. I think that Luke's outburst was shear strength in the Force...weather it be Light or Dark ??? none-the-less, in that moment he was stronger in the Force than Vader.

As far as the earlier comment about Vader and Maul...I think that perhaps Maul might have more agility, but there again it doesn't mean anything compared to the power of the force. If speed or agility mattered then Luke could have jumped all around the Emperor when he was shocking him. Sorry, but I don't buy into the physical limitations with the force. Power and control of that power is all that matters. Vader being a more powerful Sith than Maul, could easily have defeated Maul in any confrontation.

stillakid
03-25-2002, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by Darkross


As far as the earlier comment about Vader and Maul...I think that perhaps Maul might have more agility, but there again it doesn't mean anything compared to the power of the force. If speed or agility mattered then Luke could have jumped all around the Emperor when he was shocking him. Sorry, but I don't buy into the physical limitations with the force. Power and control of that power is all that matters. Vader being a more powerful Sith than Maul, could easily have defeated Maul in any confrontation.

Um, yeah, that's pretty much what I said. :)

gibbspaulus
03-25-2002, 12:25 PM
When a pilot qualifies he doesn't need anymore training. But he does need to fly a plane.

Luke didn't need anymore training with Yoda, he neede to put it all into practie with his Daddy.

Maybe....

Taichi
04-29-2002, 05:19 PM
I thought it was just because Yoda was old and dying, and too lazy/fragile to continue training him....