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Jon
02-16-2002, 05:14 PM
I just finished watching the original trilogy...again....and I did it this time deciding to really check out the Special Edition changes and decide which ones were good and which ones really sucked...here's my list of good & bad

Good

1. Scene with Jabba (except for how he looks, he must have gone on a diet between Episode I and Episode IV and then reverted back to his binge eating by Episode VI, but the scene was pretty good)

2. Celebration Scenes & New song at end of Return of the Jedi
3. Expanded Mos Eisley
4. Wampa
5. Expanded Bespin approach
6. Expanded Oola in Rancor Pit scene
7. C-3PO voiceover during explantion of Death Star Tractor Beam deactivation
8. Yavin Battle...Best addition to Special Edition overall I think


Bad

1. Greedo shoots first...yeah that looked real good

2. Changing Lines...why change Luke's funny line on Dagobah to R2-D2 "good thing you don't taste very good" to "you were lucky to get out of there"? It was better the first time

3. New line for Vader on Bespin "Bring my shuttle" unnecessary unless James Earl Jones would have done it

4. Shuttle scene to Executor from Bespin. Just another camera angle from the ROJ Death Star Landing. If you look you can see Moff Jerjerrod in the background moving his mouth to his ROJ lines. Crappy insertion

5. "Windows" on Bespin during the escape. Looked pretty phony, shouldn't it be windy way the heck up there?

6. Jedi Rocks....pretty horrible

7. Sarlaac Monster....unecessary and poorly done

8. Still omitting the Biggs scene in ANH, would have rather seen that than Joh Yowzah acting like a Muppet on Acid

well, that's about it, the one that really steamed me has always been Jedi Rocks & changing Luke's line on Dagobah. Ugh.

Rollo Tomassi
02-16-2002, 05:55 PM
Greedo didn't shoot first. It was just..uh..a glare on the lens. yeah. That's it.

dr_evazan22
02-16-2002, 07:21 PM
I agree with alot of what you said, especially about the Battle of Yavin.

The new approach to Cloud City, while it was good to show more of the city, it looked very 2D.

I think overall a better job cpuld have been done with the digital insertions: Cloud city like I said above, the Jabba scene from ANH when Han was standing right next to Jabba.

In addition, I thought that ROTJ, which, IMO, should have had the best effects of the OT, had the WORST. The Rancor pit comes to mind. The speeder bike chase.

I kind of expected the movie to have all the effects shots cleaned up for the release.

You are absolutely right about the bad scenes though. I cringe when I watch Jedi Rocks and Joh Yowza. And I just can't understand how, if Greedo shot first, how he missed from just 1-2 feet away!
And those windows on Bespin... I'm cringing again.

I hope that when the OT is released on DVD that the viewer can cut out the additions that were put in, if thats what we want.

Beast
02-16-2002, 07:28 PM
Originally posted by Jon
3. New line for Vader on Bespin "Bring my shuttle" unnecessary unless James Earl Jones would have done it
James Earl Jones did record the line, Lucasfilm and he himself have confirmed it in the insider. For some reason probably due to him being older then he was in 1980, and the lack of the original way that his lines were recorded, it came out sounding different then Vader normally sounds. Hopefully this and Jabba's look in ANH can be fixed for the Archival Edition DVD box set. :(

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Jon
02-16-2002, 11:23 PM
Really? I had no idea....still unnecessary to change the line though even with James Earl Jones.

GNT
02-18-2002, 02:43 AM
Just wait for the Special,special one of a kind special edition,one of a kind release of the the Star Wars movies 3,where Lucas totally ruins the films and has new actors as stand ins :( Due for release in 2005 :(

Wolfwood319
02-18-2002, 03:52 AM
Its funny, to this day, whenever one of my friends or myself think we have a good idea, someone always says; "yeah...and someone thought Greedo shooting first was a good idea too..."

Its kind of an homage I guess, that this change has impacted the "fan boy" social base that it is used in such a context. A lot of people refer to it as the "change," if you will, from the original Star Wars to the Star Wars that is perceived today. Truly a terrible change.

The only SE I truly liked as a whole was ESB. The additional Wampa scenes, the Bespin stuff, the transfer was the best (IMO,) and the sound were top notch. With the exception of a few changed lines and that Vader scene at the end, its flawless.

Jedi Rocks is still bad, I didn't like the celebration either. Just because the Rebels destroyed the DSII, doesn't mean the entire galaxy starts throwing this massive New Years-esque party. It didn't seem in the right context.

JediTricks
02-18-2002, 08:27 AM
In general, I think the Special Editions are a bad thing. The effects changes are mostly great, but there was a lot of stuff that still feels sloppy or even worse, forced. Then there's the "revisioning" stuff like Greedo shooting first, I think that is the worst thing to happen to Star Wars. Some day, I'd like to edit my own personal "definitive version" for my personal collection, replacing stuff like Jedi Rocks and Greedo with their original scenes while maintaining the SE parts I liked.

master jedi
02-18-2002, 03:06 PM
I like some of the things they added but there were a lot of things they could have done better with or just left out.

I liked the Jabba scene in ANH but could have made him look more like the Jabba in RotJ.

I could have done without the changes in the cantina. Especially Greedo firing first.

I hate that beak thing in added to the Sarlac(sp?).

The Joh Yowza thing sucked. The original was fine for me.

I liked the music at the end of RotJ but I don't really think it fits in quite right.

Darth Ovori
02-19-2002, 02:42 PM
WARNING: This post contains a possible Episode 2 spoiler! Highlight to read.

The changes that I feel should be made...

Redo that Jabba scene in ANH... We have the technology!

Change Vaders lines back to "Bring me my Shuttle" in ESB!

Redo the final Endor battle!!! Seeing little fuzzy bears beat up Emperial elite forces was super lame!!!

Either give Boba a proper honourble Death or make him blast out of the scarlett pit with use of his back pack...

After seeing Jango's moves I find it hard to believe that his clone son is that pathetic in battle!!!

chewie
02-21-2002, 10:20 PM
ANH good

CGI Dewbacks

CGI x-wings (and tie fighters in some scenes I'm guessing, though most apparent with the x-wings)

ANH bad

Greedo shooting (duh)

Rontos. Why did they need to be in there? Just because ILM had some triceratops 3D models lying around on their hard drives shouldn't have been reason to morph them into strange SW versions.

Jabba's CGI addition. I didn't like it when I first saw it, and when I saw how Jabba looked in TPM, I liked it even less because it negated the ANH version completely. Jabba was also far too forgiving in ANH compared to how he felt about Han in ESB and RotJ. I know why Lucas kept this part of the movie out of the original cut. Not only was it using a human actor, but Jabba's character/persona was totally different as well.

Boba Fett. He seriously didn't need to be there.


ESB good.

Pretty much all of it.

ESB bad

Showing Vader's shuttle go up to the Executor. A strange exposition added to the movie.

The altering of some of Vader's lines/fight grunts. Totally unnecessary.

Luke's scream (of course).


RotJ good.

Not much good added

RotJ bad.

Sarlac monster's beak. While it "might" have originally supposed to look like that (with a beak), but given technical limitations of the early 80s I can understand leaving it out. As for the CGI inclusion of the beak, it looked WAY too much like CGI compared to its surroundings. A very smooth, well lit CGI squeaking beak that was sitting on top of old special effects tentacles and film grain from the 80s. It just looked out of place, plain and simple.

Jedi Rocks, Joh Yowza, and the CGI Sly Snootles. Bad song. Joh and Sly wouldn't be so bad if they didnt look like CGI cartoons. Stiff, nearly immobile puppets looked far more real than they did. I felt like I was watching Who Framed Roger Rabbit in that scene.

The crappy ending. I didn't like RotJ's original ending that much either, but this one was just a badly done redress of all the new cgi city scenes with some celebratory stuff added to them. Cheap and crappy way to end it.

Fixer
02-22-2002, 05:14 PM
Initially, I was excited by the Special Editions, because they were going to be in the theater (still an amazing memorable rush, to hear the fanfare and see STAR WARS fly onto the screen after all those years) and because, well, it was new, old, and new/old OT material. After the glow faded, and in the 5 years (holy crap) since, I have gone from :D excited, to :) somewhat pleased, to :o ambivalent, :( to somewhat annoyed, to :mad: utter dislike. When I want to watch the OT, I pull out the THX widescreen set from '95.

The only thing I like about the SE is the Biggs hangar scene from Ep4. As far as I'm concerned, GL can put everything else back the way it was, even that friggin' Yub Yub song - at least it's distinctively annoying. The new ROTJ end song is just forgettable muzak. The only other thing I'd like to see fixed in the next SE go-round is Ben's lightsaber in the Death Star duel. I might be talked into replacing the Emperor in ESB with Ian McDiarmid, (cuz I love him so :crazed: ) but I'm not sure about that.

But, I'm resigned to the fact that GL will never stop screwing with his original masterpieces, so I guess I'll just be stockpiling enough of those '95 VHS sets to last me the rest of my natural life. Anyone got an extra? :)