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View Full Version : Do You Think It's Better To LIE, Or Just Be Real?



Tycho
08-08-2008, 08:55 PM
I have to go through the yearly evaluations to make sure I'm suitable for a kidney transplant. While it appears that I'm very fortunate to have a living donor that will save my life, I probably need to remain qualified to have the surgery preformed and get to keep my life.

That being said, I have to fill out a questionaire about "how happy I am (or not)."

Well, I can LIE, and respond to all the questions in such a way that I'd be telling everyone what they want to hear.

Or I can answer truthfully. The last time, it was recommended I be evaluated by professional counseling (though that probably was a standard proceedure).

Now having a debilitating and possibly terminal illness IS something to be depressed about, I believe that only when one gets better, is that something to be happy about.

I don't want the interference of a counselor who's advice is going to be "accept what you've been dealt and be happy about whatever it is that you've got left." You know, for $150 an hour (albeit largely paid by my insurance), I don't need to hear that.

Then there's the lack of a real girlfriend in my life (my pseudo-relationship with the old girlfriend I frequently date not withstanding.) One either has someone who means that much to them in their lives, or they can try and take steps to find someone. Paying a counselor to "talk about it," or "adjust to being happy in one's loneliness" are stupid wastes of time and money almost any time you ask me.

You know, years ago I beat a police lie detector test while screening to get into police academy, and I told my interviewer what I knew they wanted to hear. What is the point of telling the truth now? A counselor cannot help me. Only changing things in my life will do that.

Almost all I have left that I can count on is setting up my dioramas. Almost everyone off this website would never understand that anyway. So I want to live to at least see the way to completing that. And I might become a published author along the way.

But I cannot be HONEST. I cannot tell the truth about how I feel - and even on this site, it's difficult to tell the truth about what I believe. If it doesn't jive with whatever the majority think I should feel or believe, it's terribly sinful.

But you know, I played the political game for a few years. That by itself tells me the answer. I must be a LOW DOWN DIRTY LIAR and not reveal how I feel, what I really believe, and just suck it up.

When someone asks, "how am I?," I should just respond, "I'm fine," not "I need an AK-47 so I can start blasting things."

My conclusion here is that we are ALL part of a dishonest society where LYING is the social norm and our illusions are bought and sold.

So now that I've ranted, I'll get back to LYING: "Hope you have a wonderful day!"

jediguy
08-08-2008, 09:52 PM
that is sad to learn, I hope all goes well for you

I have enjoyed reading your posts, and I for one know that I would miss them if you weren't around

back in 1995, I almost died from pneumonia
I had accepted the fact that twilight was upon me, and soon night must fall
but my friends wanted me to stay alive, so I put up the pretense that I wanted to as well

and then some things really odd happened:

the Star Wars Special Editions came out as I was recovering, the POTF2 figures started hitting the market, and soon the prequels came along as well

I made almost a full recovery, and I credit to my love for all things Star Wars

so, in relation to your current situation, I lied to my love ones until I found the reason for me to keep going, and now I don't have to lie any more

as for lying, please consider this:

be true to yourself, and the rest will follow

my sincere best wishes for you

Blue2th
08-09-2008, 01:05 AM
Society teaches us to lie.

There are degrees of happiness. Are they asking you on a scale of one to ten? Or as compared to who? A person in a third world country in the same situation with no hope whatsoever? Obviously you would be happy you are not him.

I think that you have a remarkably positive attitude considering your circumstances.

All answers can't be answered in absolute yes or no (only the Sith deal in absolutes)

Tycho
08-09-2008, 01:16 AM
I think they are "ratings questions," such as "on a scale from 1-10."

Thanks for the kind words. Sorry I'm such a cynic, but that's just who I am.

LTBasker
08-09-2008, 01:20 PM
In this case, I would definitely say lie. Not just because it's easier, but because it's probably the only way to not get into a bunch of them getting uptight about transplating an organ if the person might kill themself even post-surgery, but it's really not a fair test. Obviously even with a glimmer of hope in sight, at this point you're going to be cynical, but of course nobody likes that because they have to believe what they do makes people all happy and profound and hallmarky. The big Medical decision-makers are fake like that.

On the plus side though, you could at least live up to the lie after getting the transplant by being less cynical about things, and going back to some sort of normality.


Give your life to Christ.

If it makes you feel any better, your avatar makes me want to yell, "OH JESUS CHRIST!" And pray that I never have to look upon it again.

JetsAndHeels
08-09-2008, 01:27 PM
Tycho, you just have to do what you feel is best. There are some situations where you almost have to lie. For instance, there is a fellow teacher at my workplace who will talk your ear off if you enter a conversation. I am talking at least 30 minutes....I don't like that, so I usually say I am busy if she wants to talk or whatever. That may be mean, but I am not for that stuff, and I would literally be sitting there just going "yeah", "okay", or "that's right".

Then again, honesty is a great policy. In my civics and US history classes, I like to keep it real. Things can get ugly...history IS ugly. We do not sugarcoat things...we look at it the way it is. If someone's feelings get hurt, well so be it.

The PC viewpoint our society has taken on some things makes me sick.


So, I guess there are occasions that call for blunt honesty and then there are occasions that call for being untruthful. It is upto you to figure out which is which.


I tend to keep it real most of the time though..I just like it that way.

After all, we can never be afraid to stretch the truth, but we probably shouldn't learn to make a habit out of lying!!

scruffziller
08-09-2008, 02:00 PM
I would say take a look at the silver lining to things and find happiness in the midst of all of this. Then you wouldn't have to lie. You need to find it for other reasons besides just getting the green light for surgery. But that would be the paramount goal.

jedi master sal
08-09-2008, 02:56 PM
I'd opt for the truth Josh. Certainly when it comes to talking with a therapist. It does you NO good at all to "dupe" someone who is trying to help you. In fact you may end up receiving BAD advice that was based off of what you told them. Then if you acted upon that advice, YOU yourself would be solely responsible for what happened to you as a result of that bad advice.

By telling the truth, if you take someone's advice and their advice turns out to be bad, you then have everyright to throw some blame their way.

As far as a girlfriend goes, bud, I'm your friend so I'll talk this straight to you...

You've posted countless times how you view relationships and women in general. While you may need someone to be by your side, I DO NOT think it should be someone of a girlfriend type status. You HAVE had plenty of opportunity to have a girlfriend and make a real relationship of it. For whatever reason YOU have chosen not to. So with respect, you've put yourself in this position so don't cry about it now. Harsh response? YES. But that is what telling the truth is about bro.

You've got us to listen to you. Whether we agree or not really isn't even important. But what IS important is that you DO sound off to someone about how you feel about things in your life. If it's us GREAT if not, so be it.

And PLEASE don't think because you need to see a therapist for any reason that that is a bad thing. In fact it's better to admit it. Again that's telling the truth. We certain don't think less of you for that. We all know you're going through a very hard time physically in your life. If that means you need to see someone to talk it out and help you through the pain and how to deal and understand it, again so be it.

one thing I will say is don't take the woes-is-me attitude. If anything look to that one professor who had a terminal illness and passed away. he didn't **** away the remaining days of his life. In fact he embraced them. That's NOT to say you're on your way out bro. What I'm saying is make the most of ALL your days. Yes it's tough, yes it's not fair, but you DO have things going for you that others don't. Without going into details, you've made it known that you're not neccessarily hurting for money. Think about how hard this would be had you been poor.

I can only look to my own life experiences to say that being poor SUCKS. I've said it before, but I'll repeat it here. When I was 15 I was homeless. yet in all of that I was lucky enough to have my mom by side and she loved me. And that is all that really mattered. We got through that terrible time in our lives and now I'm doing fairly well for myself. Rich? No, but fairly well satisfied. I still have life goals to achieve and that is something we ALL should have. NEVER become complacent with your life. That's for everyone, not just Josh. And yes it's JOSH, not Tycho. This thread is about the REAL you, not your online persona/screen name.

After you've had your operation and then come through it and are on your way back to health, then you should start to think about what is in the future for you. Dioramas are NOT the only thing that should be on your mind bro, and this coming from your closest diorama bud here on the boards. By all means USE the thought of building those as something to help you get through this time in your life. But I'd also recommend thinking about what type of REAL relationship you'd like to have with a woman. Will you work again? If so what field? I do suggest staying out of politics. You've mentioned writing, so DO IT. That in fact is something I'd HIGHLY suggest for you to do NOW. It most certainly will help to get your mind off things, unless what your writing about is this experience. And even THAT can be useful and good for you. Just don't sit back and expect people to give you pity. People in general just won't care. Yes, of course you'll get some of that here because we know you somewhat and know a little about your condition. But is it really PITY that you want? Wouldn't you rather have someone tell YOU the truth?


And so the conversation turns full circle.

Your FRIEND,
-Sal

Bel-Cam Jos
08-09-2008, 04:17 PM
Does Obi-Wan's "a certain point of view" line apply here? While I don't think our society teaches us to lie, I think that we are socialized to determine when to bend the truth (lying is still a no-no, we just have disagreements in semantics :D ).

Here's my $.02 (which would be worth more as Euros :greedy: )... if the "lie" is done for selfish personal gain reasons, laziness/apathy at not trying, or to hurt someone else, no. Do not lie in that case. If the "lie" is told to protect someone, then "it depends." (I really hate that phrase, as everything "depends" on certain situations and specifics.)

In the end, it is you who have to live with your own decisions. I will usually tell the truth, even if it hurts me, because then I can live with myself; nothing depresses me more than letting people down (including myself). "To thyne own self be true."

Tycho
08-09-2008, 08:14 PM
I really appreciate how this conversation is going. Now to Sal: I already have written an entire 505 page novel (historical fiction, partially centered on the Civil War with extensive research). I am trying to get it published now. I incorporated my attitudes and misgivings about society within the fiction of the story (by my characters' actions). Yup - it was very therapeutic and I'm going to start writing another one. I just got through Comic Con and now Slicker is in town visiting.

So eventually, there will be more. Yeah, I'd love to make it as an author. I think I'm pretty good actually. But I wouldn't know if I didn't go for it and saw what happens.

As to getting help with someone to talk to? Well I think you guys on the boards care about me more than a stranger who signs me up to collect payments from my medical insurance. That's what THEY care about: billing. If you think about how many patients they see, they can't afford to get emotionally involved anyway.

And yes, I'm thankful for 'some' of my inheritance. That's a double-edged sword. I got it because my father (and later my mother) died, but I got kidney disease because that is strongly hereditary also and killed everyone on my father's side of the family. So, if I didn't have kidney disease, I wouldn't have any kind of inheritence either. But then I'd probably still have a father. I really don't dwell on this. If things had been different, my father would be expecting me to make use of my education he provided for me, and be employed regardless of whether I liked whatever it was I'd be doing.

I'm inclined towards politics because my real interest is in social work. I just don't want my budget at the mercy of politicians but want to make those decisions myself. Anyway, I have to run and pick up Slicker. I'll be online much later, and maybe tomorrow night post some pictures of our adventure at the San Diego Zoo or something. I don't have my camera with me at the moment.

JON9000
08-10-2008, 01:57 PM
I am struck by the absurdity of your being asked if you are "happy" when bed-ridden and undergoing painful treatments. This scenario is like the ultimate Catch-22.

Your relative "happiness" could be a matter of life and death. Tell the truth and admit being miserable, and you increase the hazard to your life. Lie, and tell the world you are "happy," and you are obviously crazy or a liar, because almost nobody with your challenges could be happy as a clam.

Heck, life is on the line- your's. I've lied over much lesser matters than my own life, and so has everyone else. Besides, you wanna die because some schmuck lied and moved up to the head of the class? You've already stated you lied on a police exam, and that you are a heavyweight champion of lying. So LIE. LIE through your teeth, and have no regrets.

Bel-Cam Jos
08-10-2008, 02:11 PM
Tycho, I realized I replied to the issue you expanded upon, rather than just the title of this thread. The concept of "being real" is bogus, the idea that one just says what he/she feels (since it's their opinion it's right or their right to do so) regardless of what others might feel is not to be commended. That's simple, that's selfish, and that's childish. If someone went down the street telling every person what he/she felt about them, they'd probably get punched a few times. But since that's not what this thread's about, I'll step aside. :D

Was that "being real?" :confused:

Mad Slanted Powers
08-10-2008, 04:03 PM
You can tell the truth, but just not the whole truth. If they ask how you are feeling, you can say, "about as good as can be expected given the circumstances." Then you could tell them about how hopeful you are for a successful transplant because of the things you want to accomplish. You might want to leave out the details of your book and your plans for world domination.

Neuroleptic
08-10-2008, 04:17 PM
I gotta agree with the people who said to lie like a little . . . uh . . . I suppose my last word in that line of thought would be inapropriate for a forum that might have kids reading it . . .

Anyway, I say lie. If you are still unhappy once you recover, get some help. No shame in that. Tons of people get psycological help all the time, and many, many more, truly need to do the same.

^_^ On a side note, my last appointment with a psycatrist was interesting. It was the end of my treatment, so, we discussed how Hasbro's stock at the time was almost totaly dependent on the Star Wars line.

Course, he ended it by comparing my personality somewhat to Darth Vader . . .

Eh, no one is perfect!

Tycho
08-11-2008, 04:27 AM
The concept of "being real" is bogus, the idea that one just says what he/she feels (since it's their opinion it's right or their right to do so) regardless of what others might feel is not to be commended. That's simple, that's selfish, and that's childish.

I think that's being dishonest. It's one thing to attack another member of our forums for example, but to state your beliefs about something in a discussion, without walking on eggshells to be politically correct, IS having the right to HONESTLY express your opinion. It's beyond restrictive (and stressful) to hide what you really think on discussion forums of all places too.

That doesn't mean you have to be selfish or childish. In fact, you can do your best to be a really kind person, and be a good friend to others. But no one should demand you have this "cookie-cutter opinion" that's tailored to be perfectly politically correct. A person should be free to express their observations and conclusions they draw from them.

Back on the main topic, I'm never going to "get help" if I truthfully reveal how miserable I am. Right now a girlfriend and a kidney donor are the people who are going to help me the most to feel better right now. I already have some great friends. Everyone just doesn't always have time for me and there are moments where I can feel really alone. But paying a psychologist to "be my friend," is not real. And neither is all that medacine they are precribing these days to make people "feel better." That's selling an illusion.

I agree - as my physical health concerns get taken care of, I can re-assess my mental state down the road. Right now I have some very REAL things to be depressed about.

jedi master sal
08-11-2008, 08:45 AM
...Back on the main topic, I'm never going to "get help" if I truthfully reveal how miserable I am. Right now a girlfriend and a kidney donor are the people who are going to help me the most to feel better right now. I already have some great friends. Everyone just doesn't always have time for me and there are moments where I can feel really alone. But paying a psychologist to "be my friend," is not real. And neither is all that medacine they are precribing these days to make people "feel better." That's selling an illusion.

I agree - as my physical health concerns get taken care of, I can re-assess my mental state down the road. Right now I have some very REAL things to be depressed about.

You are NOT paying a psychologist to be your friend. You are seeking their PROFESSIONAL help. They have insights into the psyche of people that the average person does not. As well they can be more readily connected to other health and social services that the regular person doesn't have. Yes, we are you're friends here Josh, but that doesn't at all qualify us to give you psychological help and/or therapy. Looking to us to help you feel better is one thing and that's fine. But looking to us to help you understand your condition and/or to compare them with other people who have gone through what you are going through is NOT something I'd suggest. As you've stated enough times, most people here on SSG don't really know the real you. There's only so much we can glean from your posts as to who the real you is. Going to see a psychologist will not only allow you express who you feel you are truly, but will give you that privacy to do so without the worry of exposing yourself. Granted that psychologist may not get personally involved in your situation, but again, that's NOT what you are "paying" them for.

You need to look at them as an unbiased opinion of who you are. They will look at the surface issues of who you are, then work harder to delve into the deeper issues. That's something we here on SSG can't and shouldn't do. As I said, we can be here for you emotionally and of course we're all pulling for you. But you need to have someone there for your mental state and like it or no, that would be better to be a psychologist. Likewise that is a person who is there in the physical form as well. You are lucky enough to live relatively near some SSGers so that can help in the physical interaction.

Back on topic, about lying and telling the truth. I've done a whole heap of both in my life and have been hurt or hurt others because of lying or telling the truth in certain situations. It's a judgement call. I do agree that to tell a lie to get out of something is bad. But if you are telling a lie to protect someone, well as previously stated, it depends. Something you may think is a "white lie" or a little lie, may have serious implications for those to whom you are lying to.

One thing that I find in telling the truth is that your motives can never be questions. While people may disagree with your opinions on things, your integrity is intact.

Neuroleptic
08-11-2008, 09:09 AM
Id also like to add something that Sal's comment made me think about.

Speaking as a medical professional, it's true that we do deal with a lot of different people from day to day. But, just because we don't know a person, dosn't mean that we don't CARE about them. Yes, I get paid wether the lady in room 126 B dies or not. But that dosn't mean that I feel terrible when it happens.

I found that while seeing psyciatrists, that you're right. They aren't your friend. But they do care about the people they see, and not just because of the money being shelled out.

Granted, there are some doctors who are souly in it for the money. But there are still some out there who truly work in this field because they want to HELP people.

Just something to think about.

And I suppose in the end, it truly is up to you Tycho, as to how you answer the questionair. We can all tell you what we would do, but in the end, it comes down to you. If it conflicts with your morals to lie, then don't do it. If it's a life and death situation, and you can live with the consequences of lieing, go ahead. Or not.

The choice is yours alone. And it's not one that there is a right or wrong answer to.

Blue2th
08-11-2008, 10:10 AM
As to getting help with someone to talk to? Well I think you guys on the boards care about me more than a stranger who signs me up to collect payments from my medical insurance. That's what THEY care about: billing. If you think about how many patients they see, they can't afford to get emotionally involved anyway.


Dealing with the medical problems myself, though not as dire as yours, I have little faith that some doctors have my best interests at heart.
It used to be in my opinion that doctors really cared about their patients, but I have come to find out that they are being squeezed by insurance companies and administrators to keep costs down.

Now that's cynical.

Growing up in a very religious family in my early age, I had learned to never lie, even white lies. Sure I've kept my integrity, but have also learned that telling the truth can be disastrous. This sort of thinking has stayed with me through life, and I can tell you that telling the truth can get you into hot water.
Maybe it is "depending on your point of view" or maybe it is as absolute as a lie is a lie the truth is the truth, there is no middle ground. (Sith?)

Though everybody's circumstances are different, I can only speak from my experiences.
I am reminded of that song by Depeche Mode:

Policy of Truth

You had something to hide
Should have hidden it, shouldn't you
Now you're not satisfied
With what you're being put through

It's just time to pay the price
For not listening to advice
And deciding in your youth
On the policy of truth

Things could be so different now
It used to be so civilized
You will always wonder how
It could have been if you'd only lied

It's too late to change events
It's time to face the consequence
For delivering the proof
In the policy of truth

Never again
Is what you swore
The time before
Never again
Is what you swore
The time before

Now you're standing there tongue tied
You'd better learn your lesson well
Hide what you have to hide
And tell what you have to tell
You'll see your problems multiplied
If you continually decide
To faithfully pursue
The policy of truth

Never again
Is what you swore
The time before

Bel-Cam Jos
08-11-2008, 11:40 AM
.Maybe it is "depending on your point of view" or maybe it is as absolute as a lie is a lie the truth is the truth, there is no middle ground. (Sith?)

...

I am reminded of that song by Depeche Mode:

Policy of Truth

...

On the policy of truth

Never again
Is what you swore
The time beforeInteresting that Obi-Wan was the character that said both of those lines. :rolleyes:

I always used to think the lyric was "upon a sea of truth," as if there is a giant "truth" floating out there. No such thing in reality.

Jargo
08-11-2008, 03:04 PM
i haven't bothered to read this thread at all. I'm merely replying to the title. and my answer is a bit of both makes the world keep spinning. it's knowing when to do either that makes the difference.

El Chuxter
08-11-2008, 03:53 PM
B-Real was the best member of Cypress Hill.

Bel-Cam Jos
08-11-2008, 04:31 PM
B-Real was the best member of Cypress Hill.There were other members of CH? :tired:

Cheryl Lynn would say "You Got to Be Real."

El Chuxter
08-11-2008, 05:02 PM
DJ Muggs and Sen Dogg.

Yes, I'm ashamed to remember that.