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Engineernerd
09-13-2008, 08:29 AM
Now I'll be the first to admit, this question has probably been discussed before. But, it came up during a "breakfast of the nerds" at work the other day. How does Vader know Luke is his son in Empire? As far as Vader (Anakin) knows, Padme died before giving birth. We came up with two answers and reasons why they don't work.

1. The Force. In this solution, Vader just "knows" from the vibe Luke gives off. However, in Episode 4, Vader is standing withing spitting distance of Leia numerous times. Surely, that would have tipped him off.

2. Bothan Spies. Well, maybe not Bothan, but some sort of intel. However, again, you would think if their was Intel about Luke's birth, Leia would have been attached to it as well.

Anyway, if anyone knows the official EU answer please let me know.

stillakid
09-13-2008, 09:36 AM
Now I'll be the first to admit, this question has probably been discussed before. But, it came up during a "breakfast of the nerds" at work the other day. How does Vader know Luke is his son in Empire? As far as Vader (Anakin) knows, Padme died before giving birth. We came up with two answers and reasons why they don't work.

1. The Force. In this solution, Vader just "knows" from the vibe Luke gives off. However, in Episode 4, Vader is standing withing spitting distance of Leia numerous times. Surely, that would have tipped him off.

2. Bothan Spies. Well, maybe not Bothan, but some sort of intel. However, again, you would think if their was Intel about Luke's birth, Leia would have been attached to it as well.

Anyway, if anyone knows the official EU answer please let me know.

:) Yes, I sure we beat this one to death back in the day given the Prequel contamination of the saga.

However, while I don't know for sure, waayyy back in the day when Kasdan wrote the scripts and didn't assume that the audience were morons, one could safely surmise that post ANH, Imperial spies learning Luke's last name and it got back to Vader. OT Vader is an intelligent fellow, so it wouldn't take much to put two and two together. Of course, we don't know how many "Skywalkers" are in that galaxy, but the assumption is that its a fairly unique name.

The most logical Prequel story would have been to have an older Anakin already married to Mrs. Skywalker. Somewhere down the line in the story, after Obi Wan had begun the training on his own (per the OT), Anakin would run off to fight some battle that Palpatine sends him toward. Just prior to Anakin going off into space, he and Padme have one of those "we might never see each other again" moments that military men and their wives have. This goodbye sex results in the wife getting pregnant, but because Anakin never comes back, he doesn't know this. So, after ANH, he learns that a twenty year old kid named "Skywalker" blew up the Death Star and he, like the audience, is smart enough to figure this out.

Of course Lucas doesn't think highly of the audience, so he wrote an absurd Prequel story that doesn't work on many levels. It would've been so easy to write the correct version. :yes:

Rocketboy
09-13-2008, 10:12 AM
I'm sure Vader put 2 and 2 together when he found out the kid that was strong with the Force blew up the Death Star was named Skywalker.

Bel-Cam Jos
09-13-2008, 10:16 AM
There's also been the talk of Leia's lack of Jedi training (that perhaps Ben's presence "helped" Luke with over the years) and isolation from Force users kind of "masked" her powers from Vader.

The Bothan spies might be good, but no one can keep a secret like the Emperor! Figure he hid as much of Anakin Skywalker's history, with Vader wanting to purge that name from his mind and memories.

BTW, the Marvel Comics series (probably before issue #27 or so) covered this plotline, and Stilla is right about the Imperial spies relaying it back to Darth.

Engineernerd
09-13-2008, 11:00 AM
You would think if Vader had spies good enough to get Luke's name, they could have also have learned where the hidden base on Hoth was without shoot probe droids all over the galaxy.

As for Leia not being trained as a Jedi, youg Ani wasn't trained and Qui-Gon could sense him.

I guess you could say that they got some hair or skin out of the stormtrooper uniform he was wearing on the Death Star and sent it to the Imperial version of CSI who matched enough loci on the DNA to recognize the paternal side of the his heritage.

El Chuxter
09-13-2008, 03:06 PM
I would imagine the kid from a desert hole-in-the-wall who blew up the Death Star would be somewhat famous among dissidents across the galaxy.

Vader would've heard that he was a kid named Luke Skywalker who was from Tatooine. He knew already he was strong in the Force. Perhaps he immediately considered tracking down this kid and making him an apprentice. A very small amount of research would reveal he was raised by the Larses (but, curiously, given the name Skywalker), and had been in the company of Obi-Wan at the time he resurfaced on Tatooine. It wouldn't have taken much to figure out.

Plus, Luke wasn't good at hiding his emotions yet. Even if he suppressed it in combat, Vader would sense that Luke blamed him for the death of his father. Vader could've figured out based on that and what he already knew that Obi-Wan had told him something not altogether true.

Droid
09-15-2008, 02:03 PM
I speculate Luke did not know his last name was Skywalker until his conversation with Obi-wan at his house in Episode IV.

Could be Luke was raised as Luke Lars.

Darth Metalmute
09-15-2008, 03:26 PM
Padme didn't show in Episode III when she first told Anakin. Considering that you don't know for a month and typically don't show for three months, We can assume she was three months pregnant. Taking into effect space travel and such, the movie probably takes place over a three month period. So when Anakin chokes her, she is probably 6-7 months pregnant. And by looking at her, she's not ready to burst. Therefore even though the babies looked full size, they were born pre-mature. So Vader would have though they died with her due to her just starting her third trimester.

Because he was from a backworld planet, a planet controlled by the Hutts, Luke wasn't heard of. But when he destroyed the Death Star, everybody new his name. It was probably front page news on the Coursucant Times. Vader and the Emperor took the strength of the Force he felt in the Death Star run and combined it with the information going across the AP wire.

As for why Vader couldn't reconize Leia, I imagine if you were 100% positive that your children died, why would even bother to look.

Engineernerd
09-15-2008, 06:30 PM
DM, I think I might by into the why bother looking thing. Going to have ruminate on that a bit.

Still chuckling at Luke Lars...

Rocketboy
09-15-2008, 07:07 PM
Padme didn't show in Episode III when she first told Anakin. Considering that you don't know for a month and typically don't show for three months, We can assume she was three months pregnant. Taking into effect space travel and such, the movie probably takes place over a three month period. So when Anakin chokes her, she is probably 6-7 months pregnant. And by looking at her, she's not ready to burst. Therefore even though the babies looked full size, they were born pre-mature. So Vader would have though they died with her due to her just starting her third trimester.She was showing quite a bit (awful small for twins though) at the beginning of Episode III. She just hid her tummy with the extra large gowns.

Neuroleptic
09-15-2008, 07:13 PM
She was showing quite a bit (awful small for twins though) at the beginning of Episode III. She just hid her tummy with the extra large gowns.

That is probably true, but it is normal for twins to be born early. I and my twin brother were born three months early, so it isn't impossible. Though, they would have been considerably smaller!

El Chuxter
09-15-2008, 07:41 PM
Except that Lucas has said it takes place over a mere few days.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
09-15-2008, 08:42 PM
Lucas said he didn't want Padmé to be "distractingly" pregnant, but then he had the twins be huge . . . just go with it. ROTS takes place over nine days, from an estimated guess I once read that explained everything and its relation to each other.

bigbarada
09-20-2008, 11:43 PM
Well, once Vader figured out that Owen and Beru Lars were the caretakers for a kid with the last name of Skywalker, it wouldn't be too hard to piece it together.

Which makes you wonder why Luke didn't take on the Lars name. Of course, maybe Luke was the bait and Yoda was really pinning his hopes on Leia to defeat Vader.

Engineernerd
09-21-2008, 06:50 AM
I rewatched Empire the other night and was wondering the same thing BB. Like Yoda was going, "Here's a strong farmboy with your name in an obvious place raised by people you've met. This sweet little girl raised on a peaceful planet is not child you're looking for."

bigbarada
09-21-2008, 12:50 PM
You would think if Vader had spies good enough to get Luke's name, they could have also have learned where the hidden base on Hoth was without shoot probe droids all over the galaxy.

I think those would be two completely different things. Luke had lived on Tatooine his entire life and it was essentially an isolated, "small town" rural environment. Anyone who's lived in a small town knows that word gets around quickly and your personal business quickly becomes everyone's business.

The Sandtroopers had probably been around long enough to know of the Lars home and their "nephew" Luke Skywalker. It's unlikely that Vader would put out standing orders to be on the lookout for anyone named Skywalker, because that would arouse the Emperor's suspicion and we're never told whether Palpatine knows that Anakin had any kids prior to ESB. So with a little bit of questioning the locals the information about Luke would essentially fall into Vader's lap. No one was actively trying to keep the information from him. Obi-Wan, Owen and Beru were dead, thus no one was left on Tatooine who knew the significance of the Skywalker name.

The info on the Hoth base would be clouded with counter-intelligence and misinformation fed to the Imperials by Rebel operatives. In other words, someone was actively trying to keep the information from Vader, which makes all the difference in the world.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
09-23-2008, 05:51 PM
But Vader had a serious problem visiting places from his past, as seen in The Clone Wars and Dark Lord. He wouldn't have wanted to go to Tatooine, and since nobody knew he was looking for a guy named Skywalker (or even that he himself was once Anakin), then Luke was safe.

bigbarada
09-23-2008, 09:34 PM
But Vader had a serious problem visiting places from his past, as seen in The Clone Wars and Dark Lord. He wouldn't have wanted to go to Tatooine, and since nobody knew he was looking for a guy named Skywalker (or even that he himself was once Anakin), then Luke was safe.

Well, Vader never really came across as the kind of guy who would personally investigate anything. So most likely he would send his own operatives to gather information for him.

Qui-Long Gone
09-24-2008, 02:43 PM
But Vader had a serious problem visiting places from his past, as seen in The Clone Wars and Dark Lord. He wouldn't have wanted to go to Tatooine, and since nobody knew he was looking for a guy named Skywalker (or even that he himself was once Anakin), then Luke was safe.

But could you imagine how miffed Vader would have been at himself when he realized that by turning down the Lars' annual thanksgiving invitation so many times he missed meeting his son? Good thing he never got the urge to bring flowers to mother's grave, that would have been awkward!

cookiemonster
10-06-2008, 02:15 PM
It reminds me of an old joke "How Did Vader know what Luke was getting for Christmas, he Felt His Presents".

And in a nut shell there you go Vader felt The Force that was Present in Luke skywalker, he did a little searching to find out who this boy was and bingo everything falls into place, hell he even says "The Force is Strong in this one".

What screwed things up was that they created the Prequel Movies.

El Chuxter
10-06-2008, 03:07 PM
Luke would've been a celebrity. It would not have taken much for his name and background to get back to Vader through his spies and agents. Once he hears that there's a kid named Skywalker, about the age his son would've been, who was raised by Vader's stepbrother and sister-in-law, who was identified as their nephew, it really isn't a stretch to get to Point B.

cookiemonster
10-06-2008, 07:27 PM
Damn no one liked my joke, lol.:upset:

Snowtrooper
10-06-2008, 09:35 PM
Damn no one liked my joke, lol.:upset:


It was good for a laugh. :D

cookiemonster
10-06-2008, 10:24 PM
Aha someone liked it, ok I feel better now, lol.