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View Full Version : So who has been rendered "apathetic" towards new Star wars, film or TV show?



Devo
09-21-2008, 11:27 PM
Anyone totally lost any faith that Star wars will ever get as good as Empire Strikes Back again? It certainly doesn't seem like it will as long as George has his way - he seems to have settled on the idea that since it was never meant to be as good as many of us feel it was (or could be) he doesn't need to try to make it that way - mediocrity still makes money so why bother. Does anyone else, like me, just not care about the upcoming TV shows since they're likely to just be an extension of modern Star wars and the ethic of modern Star wars entertainment i.e it makes money, the toys are cool thats all it needs to be?

sith_killer_99
09-22-2008, 12:28 AM
Does anyone else, like me, just not care about the upcoming TV shows since they're likely to just be an extension of modern Star wars and the ethic of modern Star wars entertainment i.e it makes money, the toys are cool thats all it needs to be?

Nope, not here. In fact my daughter and I enjoyed the new movie. She keeps reminding me that it will be released in December. lol

BTW, I just bought her the Clone Wars figures Anakin Skywalker and Ahsoka Tano and she loves 'em!;)

Mr. JabbaJohnL
09-22-2008, 01:14 AM
Devo, have you played The Force Unleashed? I have a good feeling that at least some of your faith will be restored. (If you don't play video games, then get an adaptation or something.)

El Chuxter
09-22-2008, 01:28 AM
I don't know what the last SW book or comic was that I picked up. I used to be a hardcore reader of all things SW. Even of the last few I got, I've not read most of them.

I'm still buying some of the Hasbro toys, but I've cut back. I'm more excited by the GIJoe and Transformers Classics lines by a long shot, even with zero expectations for the Joe movie and knowing that it and the Transformers sequel will totally interrupt both lines for about a year in just a few short months. :(

I plan to pick up The Force Unleashed but, since no one had any great sales, haven't done so yet. I might wait until TRU runs one of their "buy one, get one half off" or "buy two, get one half off" sales they're so fond of, and get it with either Lego Indy or Lego Batman.

My daughter loves the McDonalds toys, though. She'll probably be old enough to actually watch the movies in a few months. I'll keep her away from AOTC and ROTS, though, so she can put off being a jaded cuss like me for a few years. :D

bigbarada
09-22-2008, 01:46 AM
I actually thought the Clone Wars cartoon brought back a lot of the magic to Star Wars that's been missing for decades.

Rocketboy
09-22-2008, 10:13 AM
My interest in Star Wars has been on the decline since 2005. Currently my fandom is on life support.
I still want to be a Star Wars fan, but the everything that has been released over the last few years has been so mediocre.

To say that the Clone Wars movie was underwhelming would be an understatement.
Terrible, shoehorned characters like Ahsoka, subpar animation ("stylized" my *ss - the flesh and blood characters looked embarrassingly bad), and a cringe-worthy story (dialogue included) were worse than anything in the Prequels has all added up to me not giving a crap about the series. If I happen to be home and I notice its on, I'll probably watch it, but I won't make it a point.

The Force Unleashed also holds zero interest. The storyline was an instant turn-off. Vader's "Secret Apprentice?" Oh yay, another apprentice for Anakin/Vader to be shoe-horned into continuity (although this one is a bit more plausable). Plus the reviews seem to land on Good, not Great.

The toys are a joke. I've purchased two in the past few years (2-1B and two-piece helmet Vader) and had instant buyers remorse with one of them (Vader).

Publications are pretty bad also, but for some reason I still buy Star Wars Insider and Star Wars Legacy. Insider has been bad for well over a year now and the Lecacy story is damn slow moving. I'll probably stop buying very soon.

Devo
09-22-2008, 12:15 PM
Devo, have you played The Force Unleashed? I have a good feeling that at least some of your faith will be restored. (If you don't play video games, then get an adaptation or something.)

Alas I don't play computer games anymore, nor do I read novels generally so I can't comment on those. I'm talking mainly about films and tv shows.


I actually thought the Clone Wars cartoon brought back a lot of the magic to Star Wars that's been missing for decades.

Hmm. I thought I enjoyed those but only because, unlike the prequels, they weren't pretending to be anything other than a cartoon. With the sheer amount of CG in the films I don't know why they bothered with real actors at all. But this doesn't say much for Clone Wars. Its just mindless repetitive action which I've heard the CG film is aswell. On that basis I feel I can skip the follow-on TV show for definite

I'd like to have been optimistic about the live action show but I expect Lucas will have a great hand in it, his writers will defer to him, he'll insist on a certain quota of slapstick kiddy humour and superfluous FX showcasing scenes etc etc. I'll give it a look because it'll have stormtroopers and TIE fighters but I just don't expect it to be good.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
09-22-2008, 06:48 PM
Seriously, though, any middling reviews for TFU are only in terms of the length of the game (I finished it in around 10 hours, but most people were quicker). And Devo, I haven't bought a video game in a long while, but this was an exception. The storyline is phenomenal, though. And the makers have said that George actually had a hand in it, and from all accounts, made it a hell of a lot better than what they were planning.

And there's much more to SW than just the movies and TV shows, if you're willing to look into it.

As to that, though, I hate the Legacy storyline and don't pay much attention to post-ROTJ EU (or any that's thousands of years before the movies). Insider does indeed seem like it's declining in quality but there's enough good in it still that I keep up with it (this one had a ton of interviews and the Star Tours information was cool). It's the same with it overall - if I don't like something here, there's something over there that's still great.

Neuroleptic
09-22-2008, 07:03 PM
As to that, though, I hate the Legacy storyline and don't pay much attention to post-ROTJ EU (or any that's thousands of years before the movies).

I stopped paying attention to just about everything post ROTJ about 8 or 9 years ago now. However, the stuff that takes place thousands of years before the movies is actualy preaty darn good. Knights of the old republic one and two were great, and from what I'v read of Tails of the Jedi was just awsome.

As for the clone wars T.V. show, I plan to skip it entierly because I don't watch much TV at all. I may watch it if I find the seasons for ludicrusly cheap.

The live action I'm a little more interested in, but I'll wait and see what I hear about it, as I will have to buy it on DVD to watch it since I refuse to get cable or sattelite T.V. So, if I hear its the best darn thing since The Empire Strikes Back, I might be interested in it enough to fork over whatever they ask for the 1st seasonal box set. Otherwise?

I'll pass.

CaptainSolo1138
09-22-2008, 07:56 PM
I've never been anything but apathetic towards it. If I see it while I'm flipping, I'll stop. Otherwise its simply joining the crowd of other shows "I may check out".

Mad Slanted Powers
09-22-2008, 08:36 PM
I'm looking forward to it. Not quite in the same was as the movies, but I'll enjoy watching it. I'm more interested in seeing what they do with the live action series. I sort of felt that another Clone Wars was unnecessary because they already had an animated series and tons of books and comics.

I'd like to get the Force Unleashed game, but I don't have a new console that will play it. If it comes out for the Mac, maybe I'll get it if I can meet the system requirements.

I'm so far behind on the reading of books and comics, but I keep getting them. Someday I'll get around to going through them all.

bigbarada
09-22-2008, 10:28 PM
Hmm. I thought I enjoyed those but only because, unlike the prequels, they weren't pretending to be anything other than a cartoon. With the sheer amount of CG in the films I don't know why they bothered with real actors at all. But this doesn't say much for Clone Wars. Its just mindless repetitive action which I've heard the CG film is aswell. On that basis I feel I can skip the follow-on TV show for definite


I was actually referring to the recent CG cartoon; but I went in expecting it to be a 90 minute toy commercial and got exactly that.

If you watch the first seasons of the Droids and Ewoks cartoons (in the case of Droids, the only season), then you will see that they were no different. A-Wing's were everywhere in Droids, because Kenner was trying to sell the A-Wing toy. There was an entire episode of Ewoks devoted to the Ewok Battle Wagon, because they needed a way to tie the toy into the TV series.

Then there was breakdancing Artoo, the "Material Girl" Ewok (Latara), along with many other aspects of the show that were definitive products of '80s pop culture. Regardless of all of that, the cartoons were still enjoyable.

The difference with CG Clone Wars is just a matter of production values; but any "crimes against Star Wars" that are being committed were initially committed over 20 years ago.

cookiemonster
09-24-2008, 09:48 PM
I am really looking forward to seeing this new series of Clone Wars, to me the only crimes that have been commited is the Making of the Prequel Movies (The Phantom Menace, Attack of the Clones and to a lesser degree Revenge of the Sith).

With the Clone Wars it takes Star Wars back to where it should have been always, it is fun Pop Corn Action Adventure (reminds me of the old flash gordon serials, just like the originals did).

The Prequels pretty much killed anything prior to the New Hope for me, I still think most of it is pap, but I do like the Republic Comics (that deal with the Clone Wars bits) and Clone Wars Adventure Comics.

Like BB said Droids and Ewok Cartoons rocked back in the day, and in my humble opinion still do.

Also I love anything set after the ROTJ as well, never read the KOTOR stuff - however I have read all of the Tales of the Jedi and these rock as well, Legacy never read it looks as if its got some interesting characters in it however.

bigbarada
09-24-2008, 10:39 PM
I loved the Ewoks and Droids cartoons. I think I was always a bigger fan of the Ewoks series, even though it completely rebooted itself after season 1.

After reading the complaints about Ahsoka, Ziro the Hutt, and the Battle Droid dialog from The Clone Wars, I couldn't help but remember this segment from the old Ewoks cartoon (a little over a minute in, when they meet the Sun King):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_Ps_1R638k&watch_response

There's nothing new under the sun (or the Sun King) here. Star Wars has been goofy since the very beginning. I don't care about continuity or accuracy to EU sources, it's about fun and after I watched the CW movie, I realized that Star Wars was finally fun again.

Devo
09-24-2008, 11:13 PM
The whole clone wars/young anakin era has been bled dry for me, to say nothing of my opinion that it turned out nothing like the OT implied.

As I said before I would want to see TIE fighters and stormtroopers again if anything but I just have no confidence that it'll be handled well. I think it'll more likely match up to the PT in its quality and tone than the OT. Star Wars is just not what it used to be. The OT is still what it used to be but theres been nothing but let-downs and forcefully lowered expectations ever since.

preacher
09-25-2008, 11:52 AM
Empire magazine had an aricle on the clone wars this month in which there was a quote that originated from the producer saying that the "The Clone Wars" replaces the continuity of "Clone Wars". This is my problem with what has happened to the Star Wars mythology. It has become something like Star Trek. It remains to be seen whether the reboot is going to save that franchise. The only thing Star Wars is missing now is parallel universes and time travel to explain all the paradoxes and continuity problems. It used to be fun to analyze the story elements of Star Wars, but now that history is being rewritten in order to sell more and more merchandise why even bother. And I'm not talking about EU either. I'm talking stuff that is considered canon, Lucas sanctioned, stories. Seems to me a better term would be semi-canon. Or canon until I can figure out a way to remarket a new story that kinda sorta adheres to Star Wars but not really. It depends on your perspective. Your point of view. I'm just waiting for it to be revealed that Vader really wasn't Luke's father and that young boba fett REALLY grew up to be Han Solo.

Qui-Long Gone
09-25-2008, 03:37 PM
I think a Wookie Christmas special sequel will boost my apathy exponentially! :D

Actually, I just re-watched the 2D animated clone wars series with my son and I loved it again! I really liked the ghost hand story with Anakin, especially his ominous vision in the cave paintings....

My kids ironically dig the OT movies over the NT movies, but don't seem to have a preference over toys....as long as there's a lightsaber and plenty of Vaders to go around!

I would like to see George back off a little and share the reigns with other minds....he's like the guy who paints a beautiful picture, then overworks it with more and more detail until the canvas gets so muddy you lose the first strokes of genius.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
09-25-2008, 06:24 PM
Empire magazine had an aricle on the clone wars this month in which there was a quote that originated from the producer saying that the "The Clone Wars" replaces the continuity of "Clone Wars". This is my problem with what has happened to the Star Wars mythology. It has become something like Star Trek. It remains to be seen whether the reboot is going to save that franchise. The only thing Star Wars is missing now is parallel universes and time travel to explain all the paradoxes and continuity problems. It used to be fun to analyze the story elements of Star Wars, but now that history is being rewritten in order to sell more and more merchandise why even bother. And I'm not talking about EU either. I'm talking stuff that is considered canon, Lucas sanctioned, stories. Seems to me a better term would be semi-canon. Or canon until I can figure out a way to remarket a new story that kinda sorta adheres to Star Wars but not really. It depends on your perspective. Your point of view. I'm just waiting for it to be revealed that Vader really wasn't Luke's father and that young boba fett REALLY grew up to be Han Solo.
Do you have a link to that? I've read a few times that Filoni said this takes place kind of alongside the first series, not replaces it.

stillakid
09-26-2008, 11:16 PM
Hmm. Interesting philosophical question.

As a lot of people my age, we were quite young (me in 2nd grade) when the original Star Wars came out in 1977. As kids, we didn't have a lot to compare Star Wars to except the random Disney movie that we were allowed to see at that time. Movies like "The Cat From Outer Space" and of course all of the animated films from then were nothing like Star Wars.

As kids, we weren't really interested in examining complicated things like story. All we knew was that it was all so very "cool!" The toys came soon after and we all embraced it in a lot of ways.

Then in 1980 we were all just a little older when Empire came out. It wasn't just a dumb rehash of the first, but a true continuation of the story that offered all the cool stuff we loved from three years ago and so much more.

As much as so many people love to complain about Return of the Jedi, the truth is that it was just as well received at the time as the previous two. It offered a really fun, fast paced, "cool" story with even more cool stuff that Kenner could make into toys. NOBODY was complaining about any of it then.


We all got older and our toy collections got put into boxes as we finished school, moved from home, got married, and started careers. Then the news that GL would release a brand new episode, going back to the Prequel story that was well hinted at in the original trilogy. Who wouldn't be excited?

The first new toys to come out in so many years were the Galoob mini environments. They were cool enough, but more importantly, they were Star Wars! After this many years we were getting brand new toys! How awesome!

Then came the new Hasbro action figures. Sure, they were on the "He Man" side, but we didn't care. They were Star Wars action figures! Cool again! And the new additions to the original movies were cool. Not all of them were welcome, but having the chance to see the movies on a big screen again was something not to be missed.

Enthusiasm for the saga was renewed for so many in so many generations. Then came Episode I. EVERYONE was excited. Who wouldn't be?

sigh. Then the reality hit. The first new episode in years blew huge chunks. What happened? Oh, the toys were still cool because the production design is always top-notch with the Star Wars universe, but beyond Lucas apologists, the world agreed that the movie sucked. The renewed enthusiasm for the Star Wars world was being tempered with some doubt. Then came Episode II, which had some decent moments, but arguably was worse than TPM. Enthusiasm for Star Wars among the rank and file diminshed. Then The Phantom Menace put the nail in the coffin. A poor story filled with bad acting and bad dialogue. Gratuitous moments designed to please just a handful of diehard Lucas Apologists pretty much killed any respect Lucas might have left with the general public. Despite the money made, the Prequels were a creative and critical failure for most of the world.

General apathy for the property built after so much of the enthusiasm and expectations were dashed with the Prequels. Most adults abandoned the hobby. Most kids found other pursuits, like Harry Potter which provided that same sense of wonder that the original trilogy provided for so many of us.

The Star Wars story goes on in the form of a new TV show, a new animated movie, new books, new toys, and sites like this. But on the whole, apathy has grown since the Prequels disappointed so many.

I've tried to keep up with the toys, but "life" has gotten in the way of being able to shop as well as just being able to keep up with what is available. I have three bags of action figures in my closet that I just haven't had time to open. My last two years were similar when by EE orders would arrive while I was out of town and I had to wait weeks or months before being able to open them.

So I saw the Clone Wars movie and was :ermm: when it was over. The toys are still cool, but the way Hasbro is releasing lines and waves anymore is ridiculously confusing. The Droid Parts chase is irritating as I don't really know how many unique droids are availabe to build or what figures it takes to get all the parts. There are too many individual "lines" and they look too similar to know what is unique and what is a rehash. Most of my collection sits wallowing in a storage locker waiting for the day I can pull it all out again for that dream display room.

So I want to keep buying the unique toys because they are cool and I enjoy having minature versions of Star Wars characters. But given that I don't have a lot of time, that the lines are currently very confusing, and that I don't have a place to display everything, it makes feeling apathy all too easy. I don't want to feel this way, but it is just happening naturally. Perhaps if the Clone Wars movie/TV show was/will be really interesting (and a lot better looking), my overall interest could hit original trilogy levels. But Lucas has to rebuild the trust in the saga since he nearly destroyed it with his ridiculous Prequels.

Qui-Long Gone
09-29-2008, 03:07 PM
Bravo Stilla, very articulate and accurate assesment of the dream that once was SW. Not to diminish from Lucas' bad choices, but the SW prequels had terrific hype to live up to: hype overblown, in part, with nostalgia....for backyard sieges in the snow with 3/4" scale snowtroopers, tuantauns, and imperial walkers.The best films are always made when a director makes the movie they want to see....but the prequals proved that Lucas was a better producer than writer/director.

Maybe those of us who cringe at the 3 newest installments would have responded better to them when we were younger (although my children, 2 and 6 years old, get bored with episodes 1-3 but love 4-6, so maybe not).....

As toys, SW will always be on top, but most of us seem to agree that as the product line got sharper, the narrative got, well, duller. That's too bad because with SW, less was always more (what was that thing that swallowed R2? Who is this Jabba thug? Why did Anakin turn evil?). The questions in episodes 4-6 kept the story fresh and mysterious, but the explanations in 1-3 (the force is basically the flu) pulled the curtain too far back to reveal a wizzard who was better at illusion than reality.

My kids still love SW, although my son is now getting hooked on Batman....not too bad an interest if I might say! My daughter is transitioning from SW to....gulp....Hannah Montannnananahhhh! I can't even say it!!!!! My boy loves his Vader, but he could care less for the rest.

But I'll still collect figs occasionally. I still like watching Empire and Hope and Jedi. I dig the 2D animated Clone Wars, but am unimpressed with the 3D version.....SW will always be an interest -and a great memory of childhood - but it's not so bad to grow up and enjoy life.

bigbarada
09-29-2008, 11:17 PM
Maybe those of us who cringe at the 3 newest installments would have responded better to them when we were younger (although my children, 2 and 6 years old, get bored with episodes 1-3 but love 4-6, so maybe not).....

I've had that same experience. TPM's 10th anniversary is next year and I've known several kids who are approaching ten years old now and grew up with one of the prequel films being their introduction to Star Wars. However, every single one of them will list an OT film as their favorite Star Wars film (usually ROTJ) and they recreate the OT battles (mainly the Battle of Hoth) more frequently than anything from the prequels.

ANH was an instant success in 1977 and was seen as a classic film by it's tenth anniversary in 1987. Ep1 was looked upon as a whole lot of overblown hype in 1999 and has practically been forgotten almost ten years later. If not for Darth Maul, kid interest in this film would be at zero right now.

It's no contest, the OT are simply better films.

preacher
09-29-2008, 11:30 PM
Do you have a link to that? I've read a few times that Filoni said this takes place kind of alongside the first series, not replaces it.

Sorry man. I don't. I found this one the old fashioned way - skimming at Barnes and Noble while my daughter was at cheer practice.

Devo
10-05-2008, 12:36 PM
Maybe those of us who cringe at the 3 newest installments would have responded better to them when we were younger (although my children, 2 and 6 years old, get bored with episodes 1-3 but love 4-6, so maybe not)


I wonder how widescale that is. The Lucas apologists as Stilla calls them keep referring to the kids who love the prequels but what of those kids that prefer the originals - even despite their "inferior" special effects and lightsabre battles. If more than the odd piece of anecdotal evidence could be gathered then what a terrible indictment of the prequels that would be. It'd be great if you guys in the US could do a national survey! The saddest thing about the prequels and any new star wars that lucas is involved in, I'm convinced, is that if it was made to please the older fans kids would love it just the same - no need whatsoever for all the pandering with fartgags and funny droid voices.

Phantom-like Menace
10-05-2008, 12:45 PM
The saddest thing about the prequels and any new star wars that lucas is involved in, I'm convinced, is that if it was made to please the older fans kids would love it just the same - no need whatsoever for all the pandering with fartgags and funny droid voices.

My little cousin was about five when TPM came out. Every time someone excused the kid-friendliness of the movie, all I could think of was how every time Vader revealed himself to be Luke's father, my cousin was riveted, enjoying it as much as he enjoyed it the first time he heard James Earl Jones deliver that bombshell.

Of course I often mention my theory, that adopting/having children messed Lucas up in ways we'll never appreciate. Almost as soon as he adopted, we're suddenly getting Ewoks and animals burping when they eat things/people. Flash forward to three times the trauma (3 times the children), and we've got Jar-Jar stepping in poo and smelling eopie farts. Everything is all about the kids, even if he has to ignore every damned one of them to make everything about them.

Mad Slanted Powers
10-05-2008, 12:46 PM
The thing is, I don't think that even prequel lovers claim that they are better than the originals. They just don't understand the level of hate directed at them. In my case, I can see how after the entire PT was completed that there could be some disappointment. I just didn't understand it after TPM, because I thought that it was great and figured things would get better from there. The other two movies didn't quite live up to those expectations, but I still enjoyed them.

Devo
10-05-2008, 02:39 PM
I'm also apathetic about new star wars on the basis of what new indiana jones is. That boring as hell 4th film demonstrated that Lucas can't even make a good non-scifi fantasy film without inane cutesy animals and ridiculous CG sequences. He seems to be a blight on anything he touches now. Not even Spielberg reined him in. Hence not only my lack of optimism about the live-action star wars show but increasingly (and ironically given that I started this thread) my lack of interest fullstop.

Rocketboy
10-05-2008, 03:19 PM
The thing is, I don't think that even prequel lovers claim that they are better than the originals. They just don't understand the level of hate directed at them.You hit the nail on the head.


I'm also apathetic about new star wars on the basis of what new indiana jones is. That boring as hell 4th film demonstrated that Lucas can't even make a good non-scifi fantasy film without inane cutesy animals and ridiculous CG sequences. He seems to be a blight on anything he touches now. Not even Spielberg reined him in. Hence not only my lack of optimism about the live-action star wars show but increasingly (and ironically given that I started this thread) my lack of interest fullstop.Lucas gets far too much sh*t for Indy 4. He came up with the story (with Jeff Nathanson), which was given a :thumbsup: by both Speilberg and Ford, so they are just as much to "blame."

Phantom-like Menace
10-05-2008, 04:16 PM
The thing is, I don't think that even prequel lovers claim that they are better than the originals. They just don't understand the level of hate directed at them.


You hit the nail on the head.

It's always been my vain attempt to put things into perspective with people who just bash and to a degree people who just gush over all things prequel, though there really aren't too many people who love the prequels without restraint. People who hate the prequels without restraint are numerous.

Devo
10-05-2008, 04:34 PM
You hit the nail on the head.

Lucas gets far too much sh*t for Indy 4. He came up with the story (with Jeff Nathanson), which was given a :thumbsup: by both Speilberg and Ford, so they are just as much to "blame."

Yeah but after about 10 years of delay, scripts being rejected by Lucas etc, and the likelihood of all their schedules maybe not matching up again its quite possible they would have said yes to anything just to get it over and done after so long of saying they wanted to do it.

cookiemonster
10-06-2008, 11:50 PM
I am sorry but G.L lost the ability to tell a good story along time ago, the Prequels proved this, however G.L aint writing the New Clone Wars, and so far it is pretty good, much better than the Prequel Movies we have seen so far, like I said this has taken the Star Wars universe back to its square roots, Pop-Corn and Serials like Flash Gordon.

Now do I think theres a few things in there that could be changed yeah sure, just like any TV Series, and hopefully they will learn and change the things that dont work and keep the things that do.

As far as I am concerned the New Clone Wars has the Potential to re-write the Prequels and to give us back the OT that Lucas took away, by writing the Prequel Movies. Think of this series in the similair vain to the new Star Trek movie being done, so they can rewrite Star Trek and make it more cohesive. Thats what I am hoping for from this New Clone Wars series, if it even delivers half of this I will be happy.

To me Lucas had the right idea when he wouldnt let Marvel do anything Major with the Main Star Wars cast, hence the reason they created their own characters, he had them on a short leash, I think this is what Lucas should have done with Dark Horse and The Novels, everyone has had to much free reign in the Star Wars Universe and it needs rebooted and resorted, with the end goal being the Original Trilogy Movies like they originally were.

Once they get this right, then use the Thrawn Trilogy as the Influence for the New Republic Era, up until the Yuuzhan Vong Invasion, and then onto Legacy.

Phantom-like Menace
10-07-2008, 12:15 AM
I am sorry but G.L lost the ability to tell a good story along time ago, the Prequels proved this, however G.L aint writing the New Clone Wars, and so far it is pretty good, much better than the Prequel Movies we have seen so far, like I said this has taken the Star Wars universe back to its square roots, Pop-Corn and Serials like Flash Gordon.

That's impossible. The Clone Wars is the worst thing ever. I know it's true, because I read it on the Internet.

cookiemonster
10-07-2008, 02:20 AM
Damn I must be wrong, oh well I like being wrong, lol.

Qui-Long Gone
10-07-2008, 01:10 PM
That's impossible. The Clone Wars is the worst thing ever. I know it's true, because I read it on the Internet.

I'll take that argument any day! :lipsrsealed:

Devo
10-07-2008, 11:09 PM
That's impossible. The Clone Wars is the worst thing ever. I know it's true, because I read it on the Internet.

Well, I know its true because I watched the first 2 episodes. Truly, beyond a shadow of a doubt, for 7 year olds. Even if Lucas wasn't directly involved his influence is obvious with all the battle-droid non-hilarity. Skipping the rest.

bigbarada
10-07-2008, 11:26 PM
Well, I know its true because I watched the first 2 episodes. Truly, beyond a shadow of a doubt, for 7 year olds. Even if Lucas wasn't directly involved his influence is obvious with all the battle-droid non-hilarity. Skipping the rest.

Sounds to me like you are taking Star Wars a little too seriously. Lighten up a bit. I think the Battle Droid humor is my favorite part of the show so far. The Jedi are just so somber and boring that it's nice to have a little bit of humanity in the series (even if the droids are the most human characters in the cartoon so far).

Mr. JabbaJohnL
10-07-2008, 11:47 PM
I think I might (might) like the battle droids more if they sounded less like they do (and did in ROTS) and more like they did in TPM and AOTC. It would help if they acted that way, too, but start with the voices.

bigbarada
10-08-2008, 12:04 AM
I think I might (might) like the battle droids more if they sounded less like they do (and did in ROTS) and more like they did in TPM and AOTC. It would help if they acted that way, too, but start with the voices.

I think they're awesome, but hopefully they get more outrageous and over the top as the series goes on. The show needs some life and, unfortunately, the Jedi are not going to provide that. Hopefully, they develop the clones a little more as well.

They have always looked comical and have never been threatening or foreboding, so why not play up on that?

Devo
10-08-2008, 12:18 AM
I dunno, until TPM I just don't remember there being anywhere near the amount of reliance on slapstick for the humour in star wars. Back then we found the humour in believable and therefore naturally funny character interactions rather than the contrived kiddy pandering crap we've been forcefed since TPM. Not that the OT was totally free of it, but it was never this jarring...no pun intended. You'll probably say I'm wearing rose-tinted spectacles but I think you've been at least partially desensitised by the necessarily lowered expectations ever since TPM.

cookiemonster
10-08-2008, 12:22 AM
I am going to have to disagree with you BB.

Now dont get me wrong I love the New Clone Wars, however I did also say they would have to change a few things and the stupidness of the Battle Droids is one of them, the other one is getting someone who has a little bit more life in them for doing the opening announcements, get the guy who done Starships Troopers announcements.

bigbarada
10-08-2008, 12:58 AM
I'm just a little frustrated by Sunday night's episode, since after almost ten years, we finally get a chance to have Plo Koon's character developed onscreen and they give him the personality of an ironing board.:upset:

I find myself actually being entertained by the silly battle droids and bored to tears by the Jedi.

Phantom-like Menace
10-08-2008, 01:54 AM
Damn I must be wrong, oh well I like being wrong, lol.

I live for it myself.


I'll take that argument any day! :lipsrsealed:


Well, I know its true because I watched the first 2 episodes. Truly, beyond a shadow of a doubt, for 7 year olds. Even if Lucas wasn't directly involved his influence is obvious with all the battle-droid non-hilarity. Skipping the rest.

The real hookup--from what I understand--is to watch the Holiday Special. That was back when Lucas always hit 'em out of the park and no one had the Internet to call foul ball.

Qui-Long Gone
10-08-2008, 09:21 AM
There was a time when everything Lucas touched was golden, then came that movie about duck sex.....:upset:

Devo
10-08-2008, 05:55 PM
I find myself actually being entertained by the silly battle droids and bored to tears by the Jedi.


The jedi weren't anything but boring in the prequel films either. Added to the comedy battle droids its all pretty consistent for Lucas' modernday ethos of what Star Wars is.

bigbarada
10-08-2008, 09:37 PM
The jedi weren't anything but boring in the prequel films either. Added to the comedy battle droids its all pretty consistent for Lucas' modernday ethos of what Star Wars is.

Well, it's not a modern development at all. Watch the Droids and Ewoks cartoons. The Ewok Battle in ROTJ and read about the "rough cut" of ANH. It was full of the same silly, slapstick humor. However, back in 1976, Lucas had very little pull in Hollywood and the studio wasn't happy with his "bizarre sense of humor," thus they threatened to take the movie away from him if he didn't start making a better movie.

For instance, in the Death Star there was a sequence where Han, Luke, Leia, and Chewie were running to the Falcon and they would come upon a formation of Stormtroopers. They would then hide their weapons behind their backs and start casually walking, looking up and the ceiling and whistling, exactly like something you'd see in a Bugs Bunny or Tom & Jerry cartoon. The Stormtroopers would then continue on down the hallway, none the wiser.

So, Lucas' sense of humor hasn't changed, the difference is that the more success he enjoys, the fewer restraints he has placed upon him and the more he is able to express his bizarre humor without resistance.

ESB was the Star Wars film that Lucas was the least personally involved in and it's often seen as the most dark and "adult" of the films.

Qui-Long Gone
10-09-2008, 03:02 PM
For instance, in the Death Star there was a sequence where Han, Luke, Leia, and Chewie were running to the Falcon and they would come upon a formation of Stormtroopers. They would then hide their weapons behind their backs and start casually walking, looking up and the ceiling and whistling, exactly like something you'd see in a Bugs Bunny or Tom & Jerry cartoon. The Stormtroopers would then continue on down the hallway, none the wiser.


I just wet myself! lollollollollollollollollol

Devo
10-09-2008, 08:47 PM
Oh yeah you're right BigBarada. I've even used that in arguments before. Lucas himself has always been that way inclined. He actually didn't get to make the films he wanted to make with the Original trilogy. The rest of us got lucky that for the most part his more asinine humour was wisely rejected by people in power.

cookiemonster
10-10-2008, 08:33 AM
But yet he claims Jaxxon is to silly, but I have just found out from you, that he wanted to put this tom and jerry humor in Star Wars, damn.

Qui-Long Gone
10-14-2008, 04:42 PM
All this talk of Lucas' humor makes me wonder what it would be like if everytime Tom mistook that kangaroo for Jerry, he faced off with Jar Jar instead. :laugh:

Mad Slanted Powers
10-14-2008, 08:09 PM
All this talk of Lucas' humor makes me wonder what it would be like if everytime Tom mistook that kangaroo for Jerry, he faced off with Jar Jar instead. :laugh:
I think you have your cartoon cats mixed up. Sylvester and son were the ones that faced off against the kangaroo.

cookiemonster
10-16-2008, 06:54 PM
I think MSP is right on this, however it would be funny no matter what, lol.

2-1B
10-19-2008, 08:18 PM
Yeah but after about 10 years of delay, scripts being rejected by Lucas etc, and the likelihood of all their schedules maybe not matching up again its quite possible they would have said yes to anything just to get it over and done after so long of saying they wanted to do it.

Does that make you a Ford and Spielberg apologist ? lol

I've watched all the Clone Wars shows so far, a few of them were terrible and some of them had cool parts. I liked the most recent one the best, I thought it was fun.

The Yoda episode with Ventress was terrible, just wretched. Some of the clone scenes have been cool and I liked the Anakin/Obi-Wan and Padme focus in the last episode.

Overall I think the Clone Wars is hit or miss, probably more miss than hit but for a half hour show that I record every Friday and catch up on whenever I can, it's a fun 25 minutes (after FFing the commercials).

Definitely better than the Genndy show.

and hey, it makes me want to watch various scenes from the movies again, so that's a good thing, I think. :)

bigbarada
11-15-2008, 12:59 PM
Does that make you a Ford and Spielberg apologist ? lol

I've watched all the Clone Wars shows so far, a few of them were terrible and some of them had cool parts. I liked the most recent one the best, I thought it was fun.

The Yoda episode with Ventress was terrible, just wretched. Some of the clone scenes have been cool and I liked the Anakin/Obi-Wan and Padme focus in the last episode.

Overall I think the Clone Wars is hit or miss, probably more miss than hit but for a half hour show that I record every Friday and catch up on whenever I can, it's a fun 25 minutes (after FFing the commercials).

Definitely better than the Genndy show.

and hey, it makes me want to watch various scenes from the movies again, so that's a good thing, I think. :)

If the Yoda/Ventress episode is the one I am thinking of, then I agree. That one bored me to tears.

I haven't seen too many episodes so far because I just keep forgetting when it is on. However I did watch the new show for this week (with the double-agent astromech droid) and I liked it a lot. In fact, I'm watching the replay right now.

So far, this show has been great when it comes to action, but really weak on developing the Jedi as anything resembling likable characters.

sith_killer_99
11-15-2008, 10:19 PM
My daughter and I enjoy this show very much, it has really increased her love of Star Wars and I enjoy spending time watching this with her every Saturday morning.

Ahsoka is her favorite character. During the fight scene between her and Grievous this morning she put her hands over her eyes and said "I hope he doesn't destroy her."lol

Mr. JabbaJohnL
11-15-2008, 10:51 PM
My daughter and I enjoy this show very much, it has really increased her love of Star Wars and I enjoy spending time watching this with her every Saturday morning.

Ahsoka is her favorite character. During the fight scene between her and Grievous this morning she put her hands over her eyes and said "I hope he doesn't destroy her."lol
That's really quite cool. And it looks like Ahsoka actually has gotten more girls into Star Wars, so I guess it worked.

stillakid
11-16-2008, 12:09 PM
My DVR has the show set to record every week, but I don't feel compelled to watch them at all. I had nothing better to do a couple days ago, so I did watch one of them that I had missed. It was okay. But still fairly blah. Not awful, but not terribly inspiring or exciting either.

I still like the Grievous moments. He's a great character, especially for this format. But the "aw shucks, you know me" moments from Anakin are wearing VERY thin. I found myself trying to marry this version of Anakin with the really angry one he is supposed to become by the end of the wars. It's like taking a look at Richie Cunningham and believing that somehow he becomes the evil Darth Vader. Just like the major disconnect between the Prequel Ani and the OT Darth Vader we all know and love, the same kind of disconnect is being built in this cartoon, only this is a completely different version of Anakin that the movies created.

I suddenly had thoughts of Sarah Palin and Anakin together. "Aw shucks, gosh golly darnit, R2. You know me!" <adorable wink> ;)

Qui-Long Gone
11-19-2008, 10:53 AM
Definitely better than the Genndy show.

I must respectfully disagree....:sad:

Devo
12-04-2008, 01:16 AM
Those of us who are OT only, having simply been unable to find much to like about the prequels or any other new star wars, are we all just wrong? Are the prequels and this clone wars animation really what star wars was always about? Or would any director other than lucas have approached the prequels with more maturity, a bit more seriousness based on how they read the OT. Personally I was expecting, if anything, the PT would be more serious in tone than the OT, not less. Did I totally have it wrong? Is it incorrect of me to think that a tale of the turning to evil of the primary character would not seem to lend itself very well to 'mesa called ja ja binks - you da bombad!' In other words was the OT essentially on the same level of childishness...did the prequels only continue on a tone that was presented by the OT that I just don't pick up on because of nostalgia goggles? If not...how in the name of god did the so-called 'darker' part of the story end up being predominantly 'for the kids'?

Mad Slanted Powers
12-04-2008, 02:00 AM
I think that of the prequels, only Phantom Menace has the silliness you speak of, but I think there was a reason for that. Starting with something lighthearted and silly helps to create greater contrast with the dark times that are to come. Also, having Anakin be a sweet little boy makes his fall seem more tragic. If someone like that can end up as Vader, any one of us could. That's a scary thought to consider that a few bad choices or a few bad circumstances could lead us down a dark path. If Lucas had started this at the beginning of the Clone Wars with an older Anakin, he probably would have come across like a young Han Solo. I don't think that would have worked as well. You'd be able to tell he was trouble from the beginning. With the existing prequels, you first get to see him as a thoughtful kid who helps others. Then we get to see the progression to the rebellious teen who is struggling with his emotions, and finally to a young man forced to make difficult choices that have great consequences for himself and the galaxy.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
12-04-2008, 02:29 AM
I think that of the prequels, only Phantom Menace has the silliness you speak of, but I think there was a reason for that. Starting with something lighthearted and silly helps to create greater contrast with the dark times that are to come. Also, having Anakin be a sweet little boy makes his fall seem more tragic. If someone like that can end up as Vader, any one of us could. That's a scary thought to consider that a few bad choices or a few bad circumstances could lead us down a dark path. If Lucas had started this at the beginning of the Clone Wars with an older Anakin, he probably would have come across like a young Han Solo. I don't think that would have worked as well. You'd be able to tell he was trouble from the beginning. With the existing prequels, you first get to see him as a thoughtful kid who helps others. Then we get to see the progression to the rebellious teen who is struggling with his emotions, and finally to a young man forced to make difficult choices that have great consequences for himself and the galaxy.
Exactly. Once again you've put it into words very well. I think people need to realize this.

As for "lightheartedness," even back in Macbeth, there was comic relief in the form of the drunk man. (Or was it Hamlet? Either way, you see the point.) It's not like George Lucas invented it; it's been around a long time. Without the antics of R2-D2 in ROTS, it would be a very bleak, depressing film, moreso than it already is. Jar Jar serves as a release in TPM to counter the fact that there's a murderer on the loose trying to kill or capture the main characters; whether you like Binks or not, you have to see what Lucas was going for. The Ewoks served the same purpose - to offset the stuff with the Emperor trying and almost succeeding to turn Luke, the main character of the entire series, evil. ANH and ESB had C-3PO; if you like or dislike these characters, that's your own opinion. The lighthearted stuff works to enhance the darker stuff and vice versa, in my opinion.

El Chuxter
12-04-2008, 10:08 AM
As for "lightheartedness," even back in Macbeth, there was comic relief in the form of the drunk man. (Or was it Hamlet? Either way, you see the point.) It's not like George Lucas invented it; it's been around a long time.

It was MacBeth. Hamlet had the gravediggers and Rosencrantz & Guildenstern.

A major flaw with ROTS is the first part is entirely lighthearted, but once things go dark, there's no counterbalance. C-3PO is still running around in every scene, but he's uncharacteristically subdued and there's no humor at all. Even the final duels in ESB and ROTJ (the darkest moments in the moments) are interspersed with lighthearted action and droid humor. But it's like Lucas flipped the funny switch to "off" after having it in high gear for 2.5 movies.

Even minor things, like leaving in the great exchange between Obi-Wan and Grievous would've balanced things a bit:
Grievous: I was trained in the lightsaber arts by Count Dooku.
Obi-Wan: What a coincidence! I trained the man who killed Count Dooku.

bigbarada
12-04-2008, 01:27 PM
Those who have the greatest potential for good also have the greatest potential for evil. Anakin needed to be shown as this pure-hearted, innocent young boy to contrast with who he would become. The tragedy of it all is more pronounced that way.

Satan was the Angel of Light, the most powerful of all the angels and the only being who was considered second to God. Thus, all of that potential for good also created the potential for a massive fall that changed the course of the entire creation for all eternity.

So, I believe Lucas started off on the right foot, for the most part; but lost his way somewhere in the process and didn't realize it until it was too late.

pbarnard
12-04-2008, 03:12 PM
The irony is that Lucas said on I forget which commentary, Anakin's fall is really about the road to hell being paved with good intentions. Pot, Kettle Black. It's in the plaid.

Darth Metalmute
12-04-2008, 04:52 PM
We can blame Lucas for alot of things, but the story for the prequel trilogy was there and was good. The novel adaptations prove that. I enjoy all three books alot more than the movies themselves. The good conversations, like the one mentioned by El Chuxter, in the books either never made it into the films or were great rewrites by the authors.

Lets face it, three elements ruined the movies. Anakin played by Christenson/Lloyd, the forced love story, and Jar Jar. You take away these three things and you have three pretty good movies. Liam Neeson, Ewan McGregor, and Ian McDiarmid were excellent and Natalie Portman was decent although no Carrie Fisher.

Imagine being able to watch the Phantom Menace, with Jar-Jar digitally removed and Emmanuel Lewis digitally replacing Jake Lloyd. Tell me that wouldn't be a ten times better movie.

As for the clone wars series, I enjoy it, except the Jar-Jar episode. The movie was the best intro into the series, the Malenvence trilogy would have sufficed better. I don't hate Anakins apprentice and I know she will have to die in the series so thats cool. I don't mind the battle droid humor and enjoy Grievous destroying the droids when he gets ticked off.

bigbarada
12-04-2008, 05:47 PM
three elements ruined the movies. Anakin played by Christenson/Lloyd, the forced love story, and Jar Jar.

I agree with 1.5 of those reasons. The love story was forced and Hayden Christensen was not the right choice for Anakin. Jake Lloyd did just fine and I liked Jar Jar a lot.