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Slicker
11-04-2008, 12:15 PM
So I was reading about Charlize Theron and saw that she was born in South-Africa and is now an American citizen. Therefore that makes her an African-American. How mad would people be if the media started to call her an African-American? I would personally love to hear her called that from now on.

If this ends up having to go to the pit because people are sensitive bitc*es then just delete it. The pit sucks.

bigbarada
11-04-2008, 05:14 PM
That is actually a good question. Technically, she is an African-American, even more so than many of the "African-Americans" who have been in the US for generations. lol

sith_killer_99
11-04-2008, 05:22 PM
The pit sucks.

Join the Dark Side...it is your destiny!lol

You pose an interesting question she is indeed a true-true African-American, as opposed to a false-true African-American.

On the flip side, how come other nationalities don't go around hyphening their American heritage?

I have yet to be referred to as German-Swedish-Irish-American.:confused:

bigbarada
11-04-2008, 05:33 PM
Join the Dark Side...it is your destiny!lol

You pose an interesting question she is indeed a true-true African-American, as opposed to a false-true African-American.

On the flip side, how come other nationalities don't go around hyphening their American heritage?

I have yet to be referred to as German-Swedish-Irish-American.:confused:

Well, how would one go about organizing that? If you are half Irish, 3/8 English and 1/8 Welsh, then are you a Irish-English-Welsh-American? Or are you a Welsh-English-Irish-American?

I would either be a Jewish-English-French-Scottish-Swedish-Irish-Russian-Cherokee-American or a Cherokee-Russian-Irish-Swedish-Scottish-French-English-Jewish-American

TeeEye7
11-04-2008, 07:15 PM
I would either be a Jewish-English-French-Scottish-Swedish-Irish-Russian-Cherokee-American or a Cherokee-Russian-Irish-Swedish-Scottish-French-English-Jewish-American

"....and a partirdge in a pear tree...." ;)

We mongrels need to unite! :D :thumbsup:

German-English-Irish-French_Canadian here....

Mad Slanted Powers
11-04-2008, 07:21 PM
I'm Irish, German and Scandavian, so I'm a Drunken Nazi Viking.

2-1B
11-04-2008, 08:10 PM
her "race" would still be Caucasian, not African-America which is also known as a "race." South Africa knows all about the distinction between White Africans and Black Africans. ;)

The animosity against people using the phrase African-American baffles me because nobody is stopping you from calling yourself European-American if you want to. Within my family tree and lots of other white people I know, I hear them talking fondly about being Irish, German, etc. and they fawn over the ideas. For some reason though, people like to pick at African-American as being overly PC or whatever. :)

Meh. :)

Blue2th
11-04-2008, 11:52 PM
I still want to meet a Eurotrash girl.

Depending on how old Charlize is, she could be considered born in a commonwealth of Great Britain as born in one of the UK's colonies.

Maybe race is what it means when it says African, and to be South African is caucasian.
Kind of like the Australians, but only the indigenous people are called Aborigines.

Slicker
11-05-2008, 06:02 AM
I have yet to be referred to as German-Swedish-Irish-American.:confused:It's funny you should say that because I have actually started to do that. If I get paperwork or a questionnaire that asks what my race is and it has an "other" slot I'll fill it in and if there's a blank for what I am I'll write in "German-American". It's as true as 99.99% of the black people putting "African-American".

Ji'dai
11-05-2008, 06:05 AM
Native white South Africans consider themselves to be Africans first and foremost. I've seen interviews with some and they are fiercely proud of their origins and do not consider themselves European at all.

I understand why people use the description African-American, but I don't like to be corrected when I refuse to use it to refer to Americans, white or black, who were born in the US.

Slicker
11-05-2008, 06:14 AM
I understand why people use the description African-American, but I don't like to be corrected when I refuse to use it to refer to Americans, white or black, who were born in the US.I'm the same way. I just hate how they'll say white this and white that but then they'll say African-American. We're all American's to begin with so just say that if anything and leave the rest out.

I'm just making an example here and that's all. It's like with Obama winning. Every headline has some carp about him being the first African-American president. Big damn deal! At least he's still an American president.

2-1B
11-05-2008, 08:22 PM
But it IS a big damn deal within an historical perspective.

Just like Doug Williams winning a Super Bowl MVP. :cool:

As long as there are people out there who judge others because of the color of their skin, there will be a desire to point out these "firsts" as they happen.

For as many people who are maybe being too PC by celebrating the first black president, I truly believe there are as many people who are ticked off because we have our first black president.

I'm not arguing against your personal views Slick, just talking about the broader picture. I agree with you that it shouldn't matter...but in reality I think it will be an issue for awhile now. :)

mabudonicus
11-05-2008, 09:57 PM
I saw a funny headline about "Obama makes World History" and I just found it a tad overblown in an odd way, it's like a Japanese president making world history for being the first president who didn't speak english
:beard: Iso&Baws

And to keep this in public domain, that's that on this subject

Slicker
11-06-2008, 06:53 AM
As long as there are people out there who judge others because of the color of their skin, there will be a desire to point out these "firsts" as they happen.I get judged because I'm pale white but you don't see me going around bragging because white people were the first race to win 43 consecutive presidencies!!! ;) (that was in jest in case you couldn't tell!!!)


I'm not arguing against your personal views Slick, just talking about the broader picture. I agree with you that it shouldn't matter...but in reality I think it will be an issue for awhile now. :)No harm no foul. I don't know if it shouldn't matter but it's almost like they're cheapening his victory somehow because that's all that they're talking about is the race factor. If we've allegedly gotten over our race predjudice (which we haven't) then why make the big deal about it?

Blue2th
11-06-2008, 08:24 AM
I agree, talking about the "achievement" is somehow cheapening it.
It's like none before were good enough.
What about how smart, even tempered he is. How hard he worked to get where he is. The education he took full advantage of to be the man he is.
How about passing an IQ test or being able to not butcher the english language being a requirement. That should be the focus.

Jargo
11-06-2008, 09:32 AM
it's all a bit nucular. The dude pulled the best campaign out of the bag and garnered more votes. Therefore the man won. Regardless of race or age or military service.

It's sad that race plays any part in people's decision making, but then again if Hilary had been there and not Barack it would have been a sex issue instead. there's always an 'ism'.

The race issue won't go away. It'll dog Barack all the way through his term in office and beyond. despite the fact that his ability to do the job should be the only issue being talked about. And that has yet to be seen.

He won. let him get to work and let's see what he can do. then judge.

the press and other media are just shooting themselves in the foot if they don't pipe down. Barack has inherited a very poopy stick created by the previous administration and he needs to figure out what to do with it. let that be his footnote in history not the colour of his skin.

Tycho
11-09-2008, 12:12 AM
Let's remember some things:

Obama was raised by his white mother and white grandparents who taught him continuously about hard work. (He's just not the first white president)

There are people in America with skin color like Obamas, but they are raised to join gangs and admire Snoop Doggy Dog (a Los Angeles Crips gang member and entertainer, who rose to fame by posturing, not studying hard and attending Havard).

If Obama encourages many with his skin color to compete to work their hardest, and attend college or pursue excellence in their chosen field of work, then let others of his skin color be as encouraged by him as they want. It will help tremendously!

Nevermind the fact that they might have nothing in common with Obama beyond skin color.

The good news regarding race is that a role model like Obama is going to bring with him very positive changes. They won't happen overnight, but they have really begun with the election of this man as President of the United States.

I am very optimistic about what he will do, but I am already very proud of what he can symbolically represent.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
11-09-2008, 12:31 AM
Since this thread is already probably headed for the pit, I'll just nudge it there a little faster. ;)

It's not like people are talking about his race in a negative way, or saying that's why he won. But don't you think it's at least a little noteworthy that this country enslaved black people for nearly its first century and now we've got a black president? Four decades ago, they had to use separate schools and bathrooms, for crying out loud. It just shows that we've (hopefully) come so far in this nation. That isn't to say that we don't still have a long way to go, though. Some people will say "we shouldn't think it's a big deal that he's black," but that itself is kind of a big deal, in that most people don't even focus on his race.

It's kind of a complex issue. Imagine that. :p

I agree, Tycho, that he's a great role model. His election definitely speaks to the idea that anybody can be president if you work hard enough, not just that you have to be related to other presidents or super insanely rich. I don't want to sound racist or weird or anything, but it was quite nice to see many black people in attendance at the Obama speech I went to since I think he's a role model to a great many people for a number of reasons.

Mad Slanted Powers
11-09-2008, 01:47 AM
I agree that it is an important historic event. I also think that it shows that you can't use race as an excuse for failure anymore. Certainly things aren't perfect. They may still have to work harder, and there will always be somebody who is prejudiced against something, but everyone has their own set of obstacles to overcome.

Blue2th
11-09-2008, 08:22 AM
I agree that it is an important historic event. I also think that it shows that you can't use race as an excuse for failure anymore. Certainly things aren't perfect. They may still have to work harder, and there will always be somebody who is prejudiced against something, but everyone has their own set of obstacles to overcome.
I wholeheartedly agree with that. Every one and thing should be colorblind now. Even programs that give preferential treatment just because you are of a different race should be phased out.
Just goes to show you, everybody has the capability to think as smart as the next guy, or even smarter because of obstacles.

I liked it when they asked him what kind of puppy they will get for the white house, and he said probably from the pound and that it would probably be a mutt like him. We're all mutts.

jediguy
11-09-2008, 08:37 AM
I dislike the term 'race' for defining a person's ethnicity

it makes it sound like there will be one winner and the rest losers

I wish there was a better term than 'race'

just my two cents (because America voted for change)
get it? cents=change?

sorry, it's early

mabudonicus
11-09-2008, 09:41 AM
Agreed with jediguy there, I personally think we should ALL be subspecies of a particular species, "race" is indeed a very archaic way to describe the reality, and it tends to give an impression of a much more important distinction than what actually exists.

Not arguing with you JJL, for the US is truly is an accomplishment in that particular country, but it kinda indicates justhow far behind the US is in many ways, and the "makes world history" headline just irked me ever so slightly as it showed the intense myopia that characterizes the worldview of what seems like a LOT of US folks.

:beard: Iso&Baws

Oh this'll end up in the Pit for SURE :D

Mad Slanted Powers
11-09-2008, 11:28 AM
I dislike the term 'race' for defining a person's ethnicity
I was a racist in school. I raced the 1600 and 3200 in high school, and the 5000 and 10000 in college. I raced cross country as well. I don't race much anymore.


Not arguing with you JJL, for the US is truly is an accomplishment in that particular country, but it kinda indicates justhow far behind the US is in many ways, and the "makes world history" headline just irked me ever so slightly as it showed the intense myopia that characterizes the worldview of what seems like a LOT of US folks.I'm not too up on my Canadian politics, but I don't think there have been any black Prime Ministers there. Has there been any black premiers? Even before Obama, there had been plenty of black elected officials, and the Bush administration had plenty of minorities in it. So, I had no doubt it would eventually happen. There just needed to be a viable candidate that would appeal to most people. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson didn't fit that description. Colin Powell would have been a good candidate.

Tycho
11-09-2008, 02:03 PM
Every one and thing should be colorblind now. Even programs that give preferential treatment just because you are of a different race should be phased out.

I disagree. And I DO want a colorblind society, but we're not ready for that yet. (by 2065) And I'll discuss it further in the Rancor Pit, but just know that I have good reasons.

Slicker
11-09-2008, 02:12 PM
Another thing that I've thought would be hilarious (but then again, not really) would be for a black man from what say England to come to America to visit and have something happen to him (good or bad) and have the media pick it up and start saying something happened to an "african-american" man. I would love to hear them try to clear THAT one up!

Mr. JabbaJohnL
11-09-2008, 03:12 PM
Not arguing with you JJL, for the US is truly is an accomplishment in that particular country, but it kinda indicates justhow far behind the US is in many ways, and the "makes world history" headline just irked me ever so slightly as it showed the intense myopia that characterizes the worldview of what seems like a LOT of US folks.
I kind of agree, but to expand on what MSP said, how many other countries have had leaders who were minorities (as per that particular country)? I can't think of any (but I'm not thinking too hard on it).

As for the USA being "behind," I mean, when a country is built on slave labor, it kind of takes a while to get over that. It was just 40 years ago that Martin Luther King, Jr. was killed while working to end segregation, and just three years ago we saw the racial barrier come up again after Hurricane Katrina. We may be behind, but hopefully we're moving forward in meaningful ways.


There just needed to be a viable candidate that would appeal to most people. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson didn't fit that description. Colin Powell would have been a good candidate.
Exactly. It's not like we elected the first black guy we saw - it just so happened that we elected the guy who we (or 52% of us) most wanted to become president, and he just so happened to be black. But it's still a pretty big deal for that reason, as well as many others (him showing the changing America by being born to a foreign father, being raised by a single mother, etc.).

As I said, it's kind of more complex than I'm able to express.

Slicker
11-09-2008, 03:29 PM
But it's still a pretty big deal for that reason, as well as many others (him showing the changing America by being born to a foreign father, being raised by a single mother, etc.).
And he's a smoker!!!!! :shocked:

sith_killer_99
11-09-2008, 04:01 PM
And he's a smoker!!!!!

He quite...

Well you know, it's been hard and he's fallen off the wagon a few times, but he's back on.

pbarnard
11-10-2008, 10:16 AM
Genetically, there are no "races" because there is no statitistical difference at the baseline genome. There maybe ethnicities that share common polymorphic sequences/protiens moities that are unique. But we're talking a 1 base difference that leads to a 1 amino acid difference in the same protien that alters the function and explains why ethnic group Y gets disease A while the rest don't. Science lesson over for the day.

TeeEye7
11-10-2008, 11:04 AM
Which answers the questions as to why some groups say: "My amino acid is better than your amino acid!" ;)

Can't we all just get along?

mabudonicus
11-10-2008, 12:51 PM
easy Rdoney, I got the superior polymorphic sequence on these here boards, bask in the glory that is a reduced likelihood of diabetes :D

MSP- no we don't have a black PM on record, but that doesn't mean too much in my book. It's one of those things, I think, there aren't a lot of black people in the running up here- most of the how could I say "natural" black Canadians have been here for a LONG time after fleeing slavery- we never really had "social programs" like projects to deal with large numbers of "second class citizens" so by contrast to in the US there is a LOT less to symbolically "rise above" IMO

Another KEY difference is that unlike the US president, the PM is just some politician. The godlike reverence for the US president makes the office seem somehow important to the rank-and-file. It is rare (so rare in fact I personally have NEVER heard it) to hear people say "Little Jimmy is so smart, one day he could even be the Prime Minister"

Unlike the artificial glory of being the "most powerful, the position of the PM is seen by-and-large as a job that's nowhere near the top of the list of "dream jobs", whereas I hear it very often in reference to the office of the president.

So I guess yeah, we never had a black prime minister, but I think it has more to do with most black Canadians having NO interest in the BS that is politics on a national level than any sort of systemic racism.....


Oh and for the record (since you're not "up" on Canadian political history), we DID have a woman as PM some years back, but we didn't try to pass it off as some world record, patting ourselves on the back about how we'd "finally beaten sexism", it was just a female person taking a position in government, pretty much any qualified human can do that job, colour or gender is nowhere near as important as results (also for the record, Campbell wasn't actually elected, but she WAS named by her party and was actually PM)

JJL- I'll get to your points in whatever my next post is ;)

:beard: Iso&Baws

I'm really not arguing with anyone btw, I'm glad Obama won

Tycho
11-10-2008, 01:15 PM
Mabs, wasn't your woman Prime Minister "hot," and didn't Bill Clinton try to sleep with her?

I think Clinton had a different idea about what North American free trade was all about.

sith_killer_99
11-10-2008, 03:42 PM
Oh and for the record (since you're not "up" on Canadian political history), we DID have a woman as PM some years back, but we didn't try to pass it off as some world record, patting ourselves on the back about how we'd "finally beaten sexism", it was just a female person taking a position in government, pretty much any qualified human can do that job, colour or gender is nowhere near as important as results (also for the record, Campbell wasn't actually elected, but she WAS named by her party and was actually PM)

That's actually pretty interesting. I remember over here when Margaret Thatcher became Prime Minister in England it seemed like a pretty big deal to Americans.

mabudonicus
11-10-2008, 04:04 PM
I think that tempers my feelings about Obamas victory in a way, just like how one could read all that "Is America READY for a black/woman president??", I found that angle kinda strange...

When Campbell took over no-one batted an eyelash really, the guy she replaced was more the person of interest in the whole deal.
:beard: Iso&Baws
Interesting, civil discussion so far...

PS JJL I will eventually get back to yer points...

Mad Slanted Powers
11-10-2008, 06:34 PM
Kim Campbell was PM for only a little over 4 months, and as you say, your system and method of choosing is a bit different up there. Margaret Thatcher had been PM of the U.K. for quite some time before that.

I used to be a bit more aware of Canadian politics. We got mostly Canadian stations when I was a kid, and even later when we could get some of the Seattle stations, we often watched the Canadian news. So, Kim Campbell sounded familiar when I looked it up. Probably more so because she was from B.C.

Tycho
11-11-2008, 03:07 AM
England has had Queens as Chiefs of State though - so getting used to a lady Prime Minister wasn't as big of deal for our friends overseas.

I myself don't have a problem with there being a woman President of the USA. It is a really stupid question to ask whether we're ready for anyone other than another white male.

Blue2th
11-11-2008, 09:01 AM
Like I said before, they all should take IQ tests. Male or female, black or white and everything in between.

Mad Slanted Powers
11-11-2008, 09:08 AM
Like I said before, they all should take IQ tests. Male or female, black or white and everything in between.

Ah, but some have suggested that IQ tests can be biased against race. Also, some say that EQ is just as important or more important than IQ. I scored over 150 on one of those internet IQ tests, and would probably do pretty well on a real one, but I don't have what it takes to be a leader.

sith_killer_99
11-11-2008, 11:13 AM
I scored over 150 on one of those internet IQ tests, and would probably do pretty well on a real one, but I don't have what it takes to be a leader.

You bring up an EXCELLENT point here. I see this all the time in the military. I have a Soldier right now who is very smart, he maxed his ASVAB (Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery) test.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armed_Services_Vocational_Aptitude_Battery

Unfortunately he is just not leadership material right now...sure, that may change over time, once he has had the opportunity to develop leadership skills, but the ability to lead and high IQ are often times VERY different things.

In my MOS (military occupational specialty) , I see this a lot, brilliant people who lack common sense.:(

TeeEye7
11-11-2008, 11:16 AM
In my MOS (military occupational specialty) , I see this a lot, brilliant people who lack common sense.:(

A common disorder I've seen in my 23-year law enforcement career as well.

Blue2th
11-11-2008, 11:32 AM
Yeah, I know some that are brilliant, but lack common sense.

Leadership qualities are very important. Like the military, instilling confidence, and showing competence to your men.

I've seen people that lack both IQ and leadership qualities, but instead are just figureheads for the real puppetmasters, behind the scenes.

Sometimes you just can't teach a rock how to swim, and certain qualities are lacking no matter what you teach them.

sith_killer_99
11-11-2008, 11:51 AM
The other major factor in leadership is the ability to make tough decisions.

I have had to do this a number of times in my career and it never gets easier, sometimes there is little or no time to make those decisions, you must be willing and able to act swiftly and decisively.

2-1B
11-11-2008, 10:10 PM
Another KEY difference is that unlike the US president, the PM is just some politician. The godlike reverence for the US president makes the office seem somehow important to the rank-and-file. It is rare (so rare in fact I personally have NEVER heard it) to hear people say "Little Jimmy is so smart, one day he could even be the Prime Minister"

More rare than people saying "Little Lanny is so smart, one day he could even be the Prime Minister" ???

CaptainSolo1138
11-14-2008, 07:44 PM
All ya'll crackas is straight buggin'.