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View Full Version : If you needed evidence Lucas was just jealous of Genndy...



El Chuxter
11-17-2008, 01:18 AM
Both volumes of the original Clone Wars series are out of print. Right about the time Uncle Nutsy's new series comes out. Coincidence? I'm not starting this thread to argue the merits of one version of the series over the other, but this REEKS of Lucas' "I want to deny such-and-such ever existed, so I'll pretend it didn't and ignore the fact that people saw it" jackarsery (read: the original versions of every Star Wars movie made).

Screw you, Lucas. I hope Genndy shows up at Skywalker Ranch one night while you're asleep, wakes you up, and kicks you in the nads with a steel-toed boot. If you want to try to outdo someone, I suppose that's fine, but deleting someone's output so there's no frame of reference? That's just low.

I don't care if you prefer the new version or not. This behavior is childish. The last shred of hope that I held is dead; I no longer believe that there is any of the nerdy genius storyteller still alive inside that fat, money-grubbing, Ronstadt-porking SOB. He's more donkey than man now, stinking of his own chutzpah (which he probably will deep fry and eat, then deny ever existed).

Mr. JabbaJohnL
11-17-2008, 02:32 AM
Yes, he was so super jealous, which is why he commissioned the guy to make three seasons.

You've known they were going out of print for a while, though, right? It's the same thing with the Ewoks, Droids, and Ewok Adventures DVDs. That's just the way it is - older things go out of print.


Both volumes of the original Clone Wars series are out of print. Right about the time Uncle Nutsy's new series comes out. Coincidence?
I've noticed an occasional person not knowing what the difference was between the new and old Clone Wars (based on the name, before they've seen either the new one or both), so that could have been a reason aside from the fact that it's just an older DVD release.


(read: the original versions of every Star Wars movie made)
The original versions of the OT were rereleased again two weeks ago. And is anyone really clamoring for the version of AOTC where Anakin doesn't hold Padmé's hand at their wedding?


This behavior is childish.
And calling a man a "fat, money-grubbing, Ronstadt-porking SOB" is sooo mature. ;)

I can't honestly think of an actual example of him claiming that an older version didn't exist. For the original trilogy, it was stated over and over and over that the 1995 VHS versions were the last time the originals would be released, but people apparently didn't listen, or just really wanted them on DVD, despite the fact that they knew they weren't going to be released again. Lucas never said there weren't older versions, I distinctly remember him saying, "They're on VHS if anyone wants them." Then when Lucasfilm buckled and released them on DVD, people complained that they weren't anamorphic. But, as I said, they're also included in the multipack released earlier this month. But all sorts of other movies undergo changes that people never even know about (cropping older movies so as to look widescreen, speeding up a film to fit onto a tape, etc.), even though we (obviously, as fans) hear about SW more.

As to the original series, lest we forget that it was originally intended to be more like commercials than an actual series (and it kind of was), and it later evolved into being a so-called "pilot" for the new series. We knew that they were going to make a CGI Clone Wars show at least back in 2005 if not earlier.

Again, why don't you care that the other DVDs are also going out of print? Sure, Tartakovsky's CW was fun, but it wasn't the second coming, as you seem to think it was. You don't need to get so worked up about this new series, or the old one going out of print. Everyone that wants it probably already has it, or can easily get it, or can watch it online.

El Chuxter
11-17-2008, 10:53 AM
I didn't say I was being mature. I'm a troll, not an entertainment mogul. :D

No, I didn't know these were going out of print. And, no, I'm not as concerned about Ewoks and Droids; these didn't have much of an audience. (They might have, if they'd marketed them AT ALL, but that's another issue.) But all old stuff doesn't go out of print (though I suspect copious amounts of crack are involved in deciding what does)--three years is a rather short shelf life for a Star Wars spinoff of any sort.

The title of this series should make it a shoo-in for a marketing, for the same reason Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut was released around the same time as Superman Returns on DVD, or why Batman: The Animated Series is being re-released in new packaging to more or less coincide with The Dark Knight on DVD. It's not a matter of confusing people. You yourself mentioned that the existing DVDs were recently re-released to coincide with The Clone Wars on DVD and TV. Don't you think there'd be a mix of people, some who see the new one and are reminded of the old one, some who realize they never picked it up, and even some (particularly kids) who didn't know it existed?

Lucas is, if nothing else, a master of cross-promotion. And he has shown a tendency to disavow things on a massive scale. To delete a surefire cross-sell, especially in light of enough fans claiming to like the original series more than the prequel movies (not a majority, but enough for him to be aware of it) and dismal reviews for the movie? Doesn't that strike you as just a bit odd?

I'm not worked up about the new series. I don't care for it, but I don't care if other people do. (My name isn't Peaches. :p) But this really smells of trying to hide something with a similar name to his new show that he's afraid of unflattering comparisons. (Worse when you take into account the current series wasn't announced until after the original series was done with and meeting a mostly enthusiastic response.) That's a new level of douchiness even from him.

I've held out hope that, somehow, the guy who gave us three Star Wars movies that are three of the greatest films ever made was still somewhere in there. But he's surrounded himself by yes-men for so long, and been so concerned with the almighty dollar over crafting an actual story, I doubt there's any talent left in there, or it's so far buried under the greed that it will never again surface.

By the way, none of the six movies have been released on DVD in their original theatrical forms. There were at least minor alterations to each. It might be a minor quibble, but people have actually asked for them. (I'd especially like TPM without the stupid extended podrace scene.)

bigbarada
11-17-2008, 11:26 AM
Most people I know don't even realize that the original CW cartoon even existed. If you're life didn't revolve around Star Wars or you didn't make it a habit of watching Cartoon Network back in 03-04, then you would have missed the whole "phenomenon" entirely.

This is probably just to avoid confusion and I'm sure they'll be available as bonus features on some Clone Wars boxed set in the future.

Hey, at least they were released at one point. If you are a fan of the original Droids and Ewoks cartoons, then you have to live with only portions of those series on DVD.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
11-17-2008, 05:20 PM
Most people I know don't even realize that the original CW cartoon even existed. If you're life didn't revolve around Star Wars or you didn't make it a habit of watching Cartoon Network back in 03-04, then you would have missed the whole "phenomenon" entirely.

This is probably just to avoid confusion and I'm sure they'll be available as bonus features on some Clone Wars boxed set in the future.

Hey, at least they were released at one point. If you are a fan of the original Droids and Ewoks cartoons, then you have to live with only portions of those series on DVD.
I agree. What are more people going to know - a series of three-minute blips from three-to-five years ago, or the current TV show and recent movie? Chux, you said yourself that the audiences weren't very big for the Ewok and Droid shows and Ewok movies. Why would the microseries be any different?


Don't you think there'd be a mix of people, some who see the new one and are reminded of the old one, some who realize they never picked it up, and even some (particularly kids) who didn't know it existed?
There's also the risk of kids and casual fans getting confused between the two, seeing one show or the other, and not caring about the other one due to a sort of "been there, done that" attitude, which could go against any effects of cross-promotion. I don't know how big the effects would be, though.


(Worse when you take into account the current series wasn't announced until after the original series was done with and meeting a mostly enthusiastic response.)
Call me nuts, but I thought that they always knew and said that these were sort of a pilot for a different series down the road. Maybe that revisionist history has invaded my own memories. :p


And he has shown a tendency to disavow things on a massive scale.
Apart from the original original original versions of any movie, what are you talking about? And while some may want the mono mix of ANH without Chewbacca growling at the mouse droid, and some may want the version of ROTS with the wipe between Obi-Wan leaving Mustafar and Anakin crawling up the volcano, but do you really truly think the market is that huge for it? I don't even know of any differences in ESB and ROTJ from the versions available now. I mean, when Anakin says "I'm a Jedi; I know I'm better than this" in AOTC, you can just put it on mute and close your eyes for a few seconds and relive the theatrical experience. ;)


To delete a surefire cross-sell, especially in light of enough fans claiming to like the original series more than the prequel movies (not a majority, but enough for him to be aware of it) and dismal reviews for the movie? Doesn't that strike you as just a bit odd?
You know he doesn't pay attention to critics, for better or for worse. But the show was the biggest premiere in Cartoon Network's history, so that's at least something. The show is generally getting better response from critics and fans (at least those who aren't deep-throating Tartakovsky :p ). But I think this was going out of print well before the movie premiered anyway.


I've held out hope that, somehow, the guy who gave us three Star Wars movies that are three of the greatest films ever made was still somewhere in there. But he's surrounded himself by yes-men for so long, and been so concerned with the almighty dollar over crafting an actual story, I doubt there's any talent left in there, or it's so far buried under the greed that it will never again surface.
If he was really that greedy (and it's not like there hasn't been a ton of product and a ton of demand for it every day for the last 30 years or so, so I don't buy the "Lucas is greedy" argument since it's not like he's holding us at gunpoint and making us buy this stuff), wouldn't he release every episode of Ewoks and Droids and keep the old Clone Wars DVD in constant circulation?

The bottom line is, I really don't think these could have been profitable to keep in circulation. Nowadays, movies are repackaged every few years anyway, so any given version of a movie doesn't really have that long of a shelf life, especially within the last few years. Look at the Star Wars movies - they get rereleased every two years. Indiana Jones was just rereleased five years after they were available the first time. Reno 911! Miami has like three different versions, for Christ's sake! These DVDs will still be sitting on Wal-Mart shelves for any future fans; I doubt they've been flying off the shelves lately anyway.

2-1B
11-17-2008, 07:48 PM
I don't believe there is jealousy here.

If Lucas wanted people to forget about the Gendy garbage, why did they carry over silly ideas such as Ventress and Obi-Wan Cloneobi?

Thankfully they ignored Durge, though.

pbarnard
11-18-2008, 09:42 AM
I don't believe there is jealousy here.

If Lucas wanted people to forget about the Gendy garbage, why did they carry over silly ideas such as Ventress and Obi-Wan Cloneobi?

Thankfully they ignored Durge, though.

So you buy into the (crap) line that Retard-esky claims to have created all the characters and the concept of the Clone Wars? I do sort of agree with Chux's premise, but only in the regards that Retard-esky tried to trample in on King George's idea. Fat Plaid squashes any one and anything that tries to claim some ownership that is his intelectual property.

These characters were discussed/created in a comittee meeting with DH/Hasbro/Bantam a year before he was brought on for anything, which was still 6 months before AotC was released. The fat man may have been in a diabetic coma on the conference call, but the multiple CW stories reeks to me of Rick McCallum as Georges enabler in chief.

McCallum--just enough brains to have a decent concept, not enough testes to stop from being walked all over.

But this is so inside politics, the bottom line and Chux's correct premise, George got ****ed.

Blue2th
08-15-2009, 05:09 PM
Well this thread kinda sheds a little light on why we are, but aren't getting figures from the Micro Series.

Why we get an occasional figure from the line slipped in a wave kind of disquises that it might be affiliated with the Micro Series, but is on the down low so it's "not really."

Why "Lucasfilm specifically asked us (Hasbro) not to do anymore Micro Series figures."

Wouldn't want George to be jealous of Emmy winning Gendy in any way would we?

I've been peein' in the wind over more Micro Series figures.
Golden showers anyone? :ermm:

Qui-Long Gone
08-15-2009, 05:13 PM
the Gendy garbage

Are you sure you watched the same cartoons? The Gendy series was the best SW PT series, feature film or animated, to date!

Blue2th
08-15-2009, 07:07 PM
Maybe there's a little resentment from the Creator of Star Wars over the fact that the original series got such critical acclaim, and when the new Clone Wars roles around to Emmy time...nothing. That's gotta hurt.

Any credit given for the Micro series in any way, would be a slap in the face. That would include new figures to remind us of how good it was, and detract from the new series.
Even though it's all Star Wars, it all would seem the same to us, yet Lucasfilm refuses to openly give permission to do more Micro Series characters.
Yet a couple make it under the wire like L8-L9, which is a Build-a-Droid, so I can understand how he could pass without too much notice.

Then we get K'Kruhk early next year. Well he's a Micro Series character, but also appeared in the comics, but yet is released on a single card instead of a comic two-pack, so he kinda sort of gets a pass under the wire.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the reasons why Micro Series characters are not allowed to be released. There is no clear explanation, and one is left to speculate, so I'm speculating. Maybe obsessively so, but if there's one thing I know is that there are quite a few obsessive Star Wars fans out there, or here.

I'm coming to a conclusion as to why though, and it really is a shame.
Maybe I'm wrong but no other explanation fits. Either that or no one really cares one way or the other, because the latest flavor of Clone Wars is out there and the original is being forgotten, and maybe that's what they want.

Prove me wrong.

JediTricks
08-15-2009, 09:59 PM
Occam's razor: Lucas doesn't want new audiences getting the 2 series confused with each other, what with them having the same name and characters and setting.

Mad Slanted Powers
08-15-2009, 11:22 PM
Considering how poorly people reacted to the prequels, I don't see why people think the original Clone Wars series was so great. I enjoyed watching it, but don't see what was so special about it. It did get better as it went along, though, and I liked how it led into Episode III.

Blue2th
08-15-2009, 11:26 PM
That's a good analogy (Occam's razor) but it really doesn't apply when you are doing the Micro Series in realistic style, and you don't even put Clone Wars on the package. So any character done is not confused with the new Clone Wars anyways.
As far as anyone's guess, it's just another Star Wars figure.

El Chuxter
08-16-2009, 12:58 AM
One of the late 2009 or early 2010 BAD's is from the micro series, though even I didn't recognize him until they pointed it out on the Hasbro panel.

The over-the-top qualities of the micro series are more forgiveable because the style is so abstract, it's clearly not meant to be 100% realistic. The new series, however, tries to be realistic and is just pure fanwank. Which is why it fails. My opinion, I know, but I still cannot make myself like the new series no matter how many episodes I force myself to watch. They're like some bad early 1990s cartoon that paled next to Batman, TMNT, or even X-Men (which aged poorly, but was cool at the time), and was forgotten... just it happens to be from the present and feature characters who share names with Star Wars characters.

Lucas is such a w***e now, why doesn't he release the Holiday Special? It's odd that blocking its release is the only shred of his former dignity he has left.

Blue2th
08-16-2009, 07:24 AM
Considering how poorly people reacted to the prequels, I don't see why people think the original Clone Wars series was so great. I enjoyed watching it, but don't see what was so special about it. It did get better as it went along, though, and I liked how it led into Episode III.

You get Love, Hate, wasn't so great, for all the Star Wars series. Doesn't mean you have to exclude figures from being made from them unless they're the Tonnika Sisters and there's some kinda legal rights thing. Maybe that could be a sticking point, though I doubt that happened because all is understood up front, and all rights go to Lucasfilm.

I like both Clone Wars, but Micro Series characters should not all of a sudden be excluded when they had been doing them in realistic style since the beginning, right on through the Saga collection, then the TAC collection, then right up to last year on the white cards. Now all of a sudden they say they are excluded and are "asked not to do anymore" when they don't even resemble any animated figures?

It doesn't make sense in my mind at all, except that like was alluded to, there's some bitterness, or resentment to Genndy. Surely they wouldn't be saying no figures because "it wasn't so great"
What are they ashamed of it like the Holiday Special?


That's L8-L9 Build-a-Droid from the Cauldron Arena scene I do believe Chux.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
08-16-2009, 12:44 PM
Again, like I said in November and JT said yesterday, they don't want people confusing the two. I don't think George has anything against Genndy - again, he had the guy do three seasons (albeit short ones). I don't think he's bitter. If anything, when doing the first Clone Wars, he chose the guy whose show he liked and wanted CW to be like, and it happened to be the guy who did Samurai Jack. He did the same thing for the new series, and he picked the guy who did Avatar: The Last Airbender. Chux, we know you hate Lucas' guts, and it seems like you're shaping the situation into something it's really not in order to fit that viewpoint.

Are there really that many microseries figures you still want? I mean, is your top thirty list all just Clone Wars figures, or what? They hit all the high points for me - I really don't need a Sha'a Gi figure, but I do still want a Captain Fordo, and I'm glad they're doing L8-L9 and K'Kruhk.

Blue2th
08-16-2009, 01:23 PM
Again, like I said in November and JT said yesterday, they don't want people confusing the two. I don't think George has anything against Genndy - again, he had the guy do three seasons (albeit short ones). I don't think he's bitter. If anything, when doing the first Clone Wars, he chose the guy whose show he liked and wanted CW to be like, and it happened to be the guy who did Samurai Jack. He did the same thing for the new series, and he picked the guy who did Avatar: The Last Airbender. Chux, we know you hate Lucas' guts, and it seems like you're shaping the situation into something it's really not in order to fit that viewpoint.

Are there really that many microseries figures you still want? I mean, is your top thirty list all just Clone Wars figures, or what? They hit all the high points for me - I really don't need a Sha'a Gi figure, but I do still want a Captain Fordo, and I'm glad they're doing L8-L9 and K'Kruhk.
Some people zig some people zag. To each their own. Some people obsess over Jocasta Nu, some people obsess over Nute Gunray.
I happen to like Micro Series characters.
In round 1 and 2 my top 10 only had 5 Micro Series figures.
I mean for the first two, Captain Fordo Coruscant, and an ARC Pilot too much to ask for? For crissakes they're simple repaints, yet we can't even ASK for them? Give me a frikkin' break!

Yet we can include the most obscure figure from the EU who never had any screen time in the poll. Yeah I know JT asked about Micro Series characters being allowed in the poll at SDCC. He didn't get an answer did he?

Why are they taboo? I'm sorry but the "confuse the two" theory is just not going to wash with me. I could see it getting confusing if we wanted them animated, but the Legacy realistic line is a different animal.

I don't really think anyone can give their opinion and say with credibility that all their "high point" characters from the Micro Series they wanted were made already, when their lists of obscurities CAN be included in the poll, when what I want gets excluded. How would you feel?

Yeah, my top thirty list had mostly Micro Series characters. There's plenty, and they're just as good as any figure in the poll now IMHO, yet we can't include them. Sorry no legitimate reason given in my eyes, so I'm left to speculate away in vain.


General Oro Dassyne
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Oro_Dassyne.jpg
Tarr Seirr
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Tarr_seirr.jpg
Sha'a Gi
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Shaa_gi.jpg
K'Kruhk
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Kkruhktoon.jpg
Paxi Sylo
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image:PaxiSylo.jpg
Rattataki Spy
http://starwars.wikiii.net/w/pl/Imag...e_of_Dooku.png
Barrack Daakman
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Barrek.jpg
Fordo (Coruscant)
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Fordoblaster.JPG
Arc Pilot
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image:ARCpilot.jpg
Sidious on Mechno Chair
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Mechnochair.jpg
Nelvaan
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/st...elvaan_ani.JPG
Nelvaan Kid
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image:TuzesAdazSon.jpg
Nelvan Wives and Chidren
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Nelvaanians.JPG
Nelvaan Shaman
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image...8Shaman%29.JPG
Nembees
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Nembees.jpg
Blorga
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image...a_cauldron.jpg
Grunda
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Grunda_Mantoid.jpg
Kullta
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Kullta.JPG
Mantoid
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Mantoid.jpg
Bugnaught
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Bugnaught.jpg
Carl
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Carl.jpg
Crockagor
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Crockagor1.jpg
Krutch
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Krutch.jpg
Anchor Blue
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Anchorblue.jpg
Giant Flog
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Giant_flog.jpg
McKnives
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image:McKnives.jpg
Falios
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Flalios.jpg

Mr. JabbaJohnL
08-16-2009, 03:13 PM
I'll assume you already know that Sidious on Mechno-Chair is coming next month and K'Kruhk is scheduled for December or January. My interest in the rest has waned do about zero, as I'd rather have more skiff guards than Jasper McKnives and the others were all quite frankly a little bit unmemorable, but to each his own. I do still want Fordo and maybe the ARC Pilot, since we already have the ship for him.

Mad Slanted Powers
08-16-2009, 04:05 PM
I wouldn't mind seeing Shaggy the Jedi.

Blue2th
08-16-2009, 04:38 PM
I'll assume you already know that Sidious on Mechno-Chair is coming next month and K'Kruhk is scheduled for December or January. My interest in the rest has waned do about zero, as I'd rather have more skiff guards than Jasper McKnives and the others were all quite frankly a little bit unmemorable, but to each his own. I do still want Fordo and maybe the ARC Pilot, since we already have the ship for him.

Yeah that's an old list I copied and pasted from long ago. Like I was saying they slip one in every once and a while which is fine. Sidious never appeared like that in the movies did he? Or was it Phantom Menace?
I would be ok if they would release that ARC Pilot, instead of all these other EU pilots we've been getting from the comics and the Target Elite Squad pilots for the same design ARC 170 that were from the made up universe.

Many of those other ones on the list are colorful characters in my favorite action scene, The Cauldron Arena, but they weren't in my final 10. The Nelvaan was though.

Nothing against more skiff guards, but I'll take any Cauldron alien over the Ice Cream Maker Guy, and the other guy standing behind the other guy in a screen shot I barely saw.
Oh well. :tired:

I wouldn't mind seeing Shaggy the Jedi.

You mean Sha'a Gi. He does look like Shaggy! lol (hence the name)

masterbrocksamson
08-16-2009, 05:16 PM
I'd like to see the 03 CW out on Blu Ray. I watched some of both DVDs on my cousin's HD set up. Seeing them on a 1080p HDTV with an upscaling Sony DVD player was really nice.
The funny thing is that while there are many ways George Lucas is called out as $$$ grubbing, if he really wanted to milk that last dime, the 03 CW series, the Complete Droids and Ewoks cartoons, and the Ewoks films would be put out on both DVD and Blu Ray. I'm not going to touch the Holiday Special issue. If it was on DVD I'd buy it to watch it and I am fully aware Lucas said it would never be put out on DVD proper, but hey, people change their minds.
I used to have the Troops that came with issue 1 of Total...film, I think it was. Guess I have to buy Cops now to see it.
I grew to really like the new CW cartoon, but I also really like the old (03) series. But yeah, I'd love to see an 03 Blu Ray set. The starfields just pop with color...

El Chuxter
08-16-2009, 08:58 PM
I don't hate Lucas. I just lose a little more respect for him every day, and hope that one day he can equal the greatness of Willow, at the very least. Or at least go back to TPM.

2-1B
08-17-2009, 10:01 PM
So you buy into the (crap) line that Retard-esky claims to have created all the characters and the concept of the Clone Wars? I do sort of agree with Chux's premise, but only in the regards that Retard-esky tried to trample in on King George's idea. Fat Plaid squashes any one and anything that tries to claim some ownership that is his intelectual property.

These characters were discussed/created in a comittee meeting with DH/Hasbro/Bantam a year before he was brought on for anything, which was still 6 months before AotC was released. The fat man may have been in a diabetic coma on the conference call, but the multiple CW stories reeks to me of Rick McCallum as Georges enabler in chief.

McCallum--just enough brains to have a decent concept, not enough testes to stop from being walked all over.

But this is so inside politics, the bottom line and Chux's correct premise, George got ****ed.

I really don't know anything about any claims, I haven't heard about that. :confused:
I don't know if Genndy created Obi in his clone armor, I just know I first saw it in his show. :)


Are you sure you watched the same cartoons? The Gendy series was the best SW PT series, feature film or animated, to date!

That's a new one - someone actually didn't like the prequels? :eek:
I never heard of that over the last 6-10 years. lol

The Yoda/Chewie BK commercials were better than the Genndy show. ;)

El Chuxter
08-17-2009, 11:20 PM
The Yoda/Chewie BK commercials were better than the Genndy show. ;)

Only because they were so awesome that they topped everything except The Empire Strikes Back, and then only if you have a magic TV that turns everyone into slave Leia.

Qui-Long Gone
08-17-2009, 11:23 PM
That's a new one - someone actually didn't like the prequels? :eek:
I never heard of that over the last 6-10 years. lol


Of course I like the prequels, I'm saying the Genndy cartoon was better. :rolleyes:

Of course you never heard that over the last 6-10 years becasue those cartoons didn't exist 6 years ago! :)

pbarnard
08-18-2009, 08:41 AM
I really don't know anything about any claims, I haven't heard about that. :confused:
I don't know if Genndy created Obi in his clone armor, I just know I first saw it in his show. :)

Specifically it is in reference to Ventress and Durge.

Blue2th
08-18-2009, 09:49 AM
I honestly enjoyed them more than the Prequels I must say. That goes back from being a cartoon junky sitting in front of the tube all day on Saturdays, and everything was 2D.

So who came up with Sha'a Gi? That's obviously homage to Shaggy from Scooby Do.
Did they come up with that in a conference?
I think it's a mixture of Genndy's and Lucasfilm's brainstorming on fun names for characters to come up with. Lucas gets the credit of course, because it's his baby.

You have to remember all these had to be rushed into production, and Genndy's crew were under a lot of pressure to make it work in the short time schedule they had. I think most of the ideas were his and his crew, give or take a few key characters and George said fine, let's go with it, but obviously he steered the final episodes to tie in with ROTS, and probably had a general outline of the whole story he wanted from the beginning.

El Chuxter
08-18-2009, 12:05 PM
Ventress and Durge were supposedly collaborative efforts. I'm not sure exactly how much input any party had into their creation, but it wouldn't surprise me if Genndy was given a skeletal final description of each and ran with it, never realizing they were planned to be in other media.

pbarnard
08-18-2009, 12:30 PM
Ventress and Durge were supposedly collaborative efforts. I'm not sure exactly how much input any party had into their creation, but it wouldn't surprise me if Genndy was given a skeletal final description of each and ran with it, never realizing they were planned to be in other media.


Just stating that LFL "develops" a new character that appears in DH 1 month after AotC is released. Bantam's foray comes about 3-4 months after that, Hasbro follows quickly about 6 months time. Hasbro is on record that they need at least ~1 full year to ideally plan and develop a figure. DH writes/draws about 6 months ahead, novels are (fully) aproved about 4 months prior--and author to author can take anywhere from a year to a month to churn out a rough draft with a month or two for revisions. They were developed well before he was even involved and out just before he was brought on to make his microseries. Claiming credit for work that is not yours is the most capital/cardinal/henious thing people can do in my profession (research science/academic).

It always was shoe horned into a continous story arc up until the new show which just seems so scattered. The better episodes focus away from Obi-wan and Anakin, take two or three episodes. Focus on building arcs/campaigns that show the Clone Wars as the galaxy wide destructive event that it was proported to be.

El Chuxter
08-18-2009, 12:39 PM
The first wave of Clone Wars figures were mainly from the cartoon. Kit Fisto never swam around shirtless and Durge never rode a chopper before the cartoon aired. The lead time on a cartoon, especially a new one, is pretty long, usually a few years (especially if one is working on another cartoon at the same time).

I can't definitively say that Tartakovsky didn't claim credit for work that wasn't his own. But I do know the guy has a pretty amazing track record as far as original ideas go (Dexter's Lab and Samurai Jack alone would be an impressive resume). And why would he be brought on for a third season if he was unfairly stealing credit?

I don't disagree that taking credit for someone else's work is heinous. I just don't see enough evidence to jive with everything else I know about the guy.

Qui-Long Gone
08-18-2009, 12:43 PM
Star Wars fans should be grateful for Genndy's contributions. Name one light saber fight cooler than Anakin and Ventress' rain battle...seriously, have the films ever made those sabers more terrifying than they were sizzling rain drops with two really angry Jedi?

Blue2th
08-18-2009, 02:33 PM
A little snippet of an interview with Genndy:

SFO: What is Lucasfilm's involvement with the creation of the series? Has the company told you what storyline to follow or have they given you a free hand?


GT: They've been remarkably hands-off with us about Clone Wars. I think once George Lucas gave his overall blessing or "seal of approval" because of what we've achieved to date with Samurai Jack, everyone felt they could trust us to handle the property with the appropriate care and concern it deserves. So we went away and developed our own storyline, a new perspective and approach, along with character designs and production elements-all of which really excited us-and we brought it back and pitched the new scenario to them. And fortunately, everyone really loved it.

El Chuxter
08-18-2009, 03:30 PM
Yeah, but given the lead time for a cartoon, when did the interview take place and when were the character designs supposedly submitted? And were these specifically for Durge and Asajj, or background characters?

Again, I'm not arguing with anyone, but that makes a difference.

pbarnard
08-18-2009, 03:43 PM
This is not the interview. I'm thinking commentary or DVD feature and again on a Forcecast.

I'm not stating anything about the series, just an extremely personal and sensitive issue that I have with it's producer/director.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
08-18-2009, 05:01 PM
The first wave of Clone Wars figures were mainly from the cartoon. Kit Fisto never swam around shirtless and Durge never rode a chopper before the cartoon aired. The lead time on a cartoon, especially a new one, is pretty long, usually a few years (especially if one is working on another cartoon at the same time).
Kit came out in the final wave of '03 CW figures, along with Saesee Tiin and the then-hard-to-find SA Clone. Here (http://www.rebelscum.com/CWfigures.asp) is a group shot as a reminder. Some of the figures were based on comics, and some out of Hasbro's imagination (how could we forget the infamous Frito Bandito Yoda?), but Kit's really the only one based on the cartoon at all. From the non-basic figures, Durge had the bike, but it looks nothing like the one from the show. Anakin's ship was based on the one in the show; there was also the aqua repaint of Obi-Wan's, but that was seen in the deleted scene, I believe.

I'm not sure that this makes any difference what is going on since I don't know what's going on. lol

2-1B
08-18-2009, 05:36 PM
A little snippet of an interview with Genndy:

GT: They've been remarkably hands-off with us about Clone Wars. I think once George Lucas gave his overall blessing or "seal of approval" because of what we've achieved to date with Samurai Jack, everyone felt they could trust us to handle the property with the appropriate care and concern it deserves.

"care and concern" ? They shouldn't have done it in that style to begin with...but actually rendering it in that style was a failure from the start. lol

Blue2th
08-18-2009, 07:08 PM
I'm not sure that this makes any difference what is going on since I don't know what's going on. lol

I dug up Chux's thread and hijacked it. :D

Anyways, I'm just trying to understand why we can't get a straight answer from Hasbro as to why they say they can't make Micro Series characters, yet they are, but they say they can't, and we can't ask. :crazed: Does it have anything to do with all the aforementioned?

Mr. JabbaJohnL
08-18-2009, 09:33 PM
Why don't you go look through all the Q&As and see where they mentioned this?

If into the archives you go, only pain will you find. Or, actually, the answers. And pain. Hopefully not.

Blue2th
08-18-2009, 10:04 PM
Why don't you go look through all the Q&As and see where they mentioned this?

If into the archives you go, only pain will you find. Or, actually, the answers. And pain. Hopefully not.

"Pain, pain, young Skywalker is in pain!" lol

Well here's the part where they are asked not to do any more Micro Series characters. There is a glimmer of hope for Fordo and possibly the (ARC) pilot though:

JediInsider.com: Question from JI reader Alpha 77: What I'd be hoping to see appear as a Clone Wars or Saga Legends figure would be ARC Captain Fordo, since the new packaging for the figures is dedicated to Fordo, I would believe that there would be a figure for him as well. Is there a possibility of this?
Hasbro: There is no Fordo planned right now, but there's a strong likelihood that we'll get to him someday.Lucasfilm has asked that we not pursue any more of the Clone Wars micro series figures, but given there are a couple important ones still to go, we think we'll be able to get them into the lineup in the future.

JediDefender.com: Your Legacy Wave 2, all figure from the 2-D Clone Wars cartoon, was outstanding. You wrapped up a lot of the main wants people had from the original CW cartoons in one fell swoop! The question is now, which characters/figures would Hasbro most like to crank out from the original cartoon? Fans at JediDefender certainly liked a lot of the "arena combat" characters from one episode.
Hasbro: There are still one or two figures (such as Fordo in Type II armor that with Lucasfilm's permission we could possibly do, but for all intents and purposes we are done exploring the original Clone Wars micro-series. Given their very minor screen time, it is highly unlikely we'll ever do any characters from the Asaaj/arena scene, as cool as it was.


Mousedroid.com. QUESTION #1
Dear Hasbro
I am a huge fan of The Legacy Collection's Wave 2 - Clone Wars. Every single figure is just fantastic. I cannot remember the last time a Wave was released where I couldn't wait for every figure. Do you have any plans for more Waves based on the Clone Wars Micro-Series or figures as part of an EU Wave?
I would really like to see a Battle Ravaged Anakin from his duel with Asajj Ventress on Yavin, a Battle Ravaged Ki-Adi-Mundi from Hypori, the nervious looking padawan Sha'a Gi and his Master Daakman Barrek, Advanced Recon Commando pilot, the Clone Marines who accompany Saesee Tiin, and Captain Fordo in Phase 2 Armour.
Thanks
Commander Collars

HASBRO REPLY:
We're glad you liked that Wave - we agree that it is a super wave and a great way to say goodbye, with a bang, to the original Clone Wars micro-series. It will be our last wave to focus on that series, as at the request of Lucasfilm we have been concentrating our Clone Wars efforts on the new series. It is possible that we could get approval to do an occasional one here or there and we will take your suggestions into account if we do have an opportunity (Fordo and the Pilots are great choices and are highest on our list!).

"Lucasfilm has asked that we not pursue anymore of the Micro Series characters"
Hmm, L8-L9, Sidious on Mechno Cair, K'Kruhk, sounds like characters they were asked not to pursue to me (maybe they're the "important ones" or "approval to do an occasional one")
"Minor screen time" doesn't make sense with plenty of "minor screen time" oh and "no screen time" or "made up out of thin air" figures we were or are getting. :rolleyes:

I think there was also a recent one mentioning L8-L9 (hmm, "unlikely Arena character") but I have to find it.

Dig I will yes into the archives I go, exist it does not listen to Jocasta Nu I will.

Blue2th
08-18-2009, 10:12 PM
Yeah, but given the lead time for a cartoon, when did the interview take place and when were the character designs supposedly submitted? And were these specifically for Durge and Asajj, or background characters?

Again, I'm not arguing with anyone, but that makes a difference.
Not sure of the date Chux. During or right after the cartoon.

This is not the interview. I'm thinking commentary or DVD feature and again on a Forcecast.

I'm not stating anything about the series, just an extremely personal and sensitive issue that I have with it's producer/director.
Here's the link to the interview: http://sci-fi-online.50megs.com/Interview/05-03-18_GenndyTartakovsky.htm

El Chuxter
08-18-2009, 10:38 PM
Sidious with the Mechno Chair was in TPM, though. And K'krukh has been a major player in the comics since AOTC or shortly before. I doubt they'd be affected by any such mandate.

I find it odd they say they'll likely never get to any characters from the arena fight but are already making L8-L9.

Blue2th
08-19-2009, 12:16 PM
A mysterious web they have weaved concerning this. :yes:

I guess that's the only way we're going to get them. Don't ask don't tell policy.
Don't ask us (Hasbro) and we won't have to say no, yet we will trickle out a few here and there.
Wouldn't want to make it official. Somebody might get jealous and the hammer would come down and we'd get nothing at all. :rolleyes:

JediTricks
08-19-2009, 02:21 PM
Anyways, I'm just trying to understand why we can't get a straight answer from Hasbro as to why they say they can't make Micro Series characters, yet they are, but they say they can't, and we can't ask. :crazed: Does it have anything to do with all the aforementioned?You are misreading what their answer is. They have been ASKED not to do more, but are going to try to get what they consider to be a few more important ones made, the rest aren't important enough in their eyes to go to the mat over.

Blue2th
08-19-2009, 02:28 PM
You are misreading what their answer is. They have been ASKED not to do more, but are going to try to get what they consider to be a few more important ones made, the rest aren't important enough in their eyes to go to the mat over.

You probably want to give me such a slap, but why have they been asked not to do more?

Mr. JabbaJohnL
08-19-2009, 04:41 PM
You probably want to give me such a slap, but why have they been asked not to do more?
We've said it nine thousand times in this thread already - that was the old Clone Wars, and Lucasfilm wants them to focus on the new one. Case closed!

Blue2th
08-19-2009, 05:50 PM
We've said it nine thousand times in this thread already - that was the old Clone Wars, and Lucasfilm wants them to focus on the new one. Case closed!

Sorry not good enough explanation. :whip:

El Chuxter
08-19-2009, 06:03 PM
Obviously, no one said, "We're making Legacy comics now. Please do not make anything from Rogue Squadron, Republic, or Marvel." If they wouldn't be in the Clone Wars line proper, and done in realistic style, I don't see an issue. They like to say, "It's all Star Wars." Until someone wants something they don't like.

JediTricks
08-19-2009, 09:23 PM
Sorry not good enough explanation. :whip:


Obviously, no one said, "We're making Legacy comics now. Please do not make anything from Rogue Squadron, Republic, or Marvel." If they wouldn't be in the Clone Wars line proper, and done in realistic style, I don't see an issue. They like to say, "It's all Star Wars." Until someone wants something they don't like.
Gee, what could be the problem? Oh, gee, I know, they're telling the SAME STORY IN DIFFERENT WAYS! It's not like Legacy will step on Rogue Squadron's toes, but this will. Genndy had his freedom to make his show, and now Dave Filoni needs the same freedom from constriction to tell his tale. It's a similar style and the same era and the same NAME for corn's sake.

El Chuxter
08-19-2009, 11:07 PM
Legacy steps on the toes of anyone with taste. :) Seriously, though, the Dark Horse and Marvel series do often butt heads, timeline-wise.

I just don't see a problem with releasing micro-series figures on Legacy cards, without any direct indication they're Clone Wars.

Darth Jax
08-20-2009, 08:04 AM
Gee, what could be the problem? Oh, gee, I know, they're telling the SAME STORY IN DIFFERENT WAYS! It's not like Legacy will step on Rogue Squadron's toes, but this will. Genndy had his freedom to make his show, and now Dave Filoni needs the same freedom from constriction to tell his tale. It's a similar style and the same era and the same NAME for corn's sake.

will g.lu retcon his vision of ROTS to match Filoni's CW or are we gonna get to see Ahsoka's death in the final episode?

While i didn't like the subplot of the nelvans in Genndy's version, it made anakins fall (after seemingly learning to become their savior) that much more tragic.

Blue2th
08-20-2009, 08:25 AM
That's what I've been trying to say. If it's TLC realistic, it doesn't interfere with the animated line.
I don't see the conflict. Yet Lucasfilm does, I don't understand it, but that's the decision. No plausible explanation given to "Lucasfilm asked us not to do anymore Micro Series characters." Hasbro did not say why, they just said it. Show me where in any Q&A where it says why this decision is so. No one seems to want to put their feet to the fire for the reason.

The confusion may lie in the fact the two series have the same title, but I'm not asking for an expansion of animated figures into any other realm. I'm asking that Micro Series characters be treated like any other EU character, any other Poll character, any other realistic style character. It's all Star Wars, but it seems to get confused because it has the same title?

It's not like I want a realistic Ashoka.

I don't think this will ever get resolved. I can just hope for the best at this point. Can't even get a stupid repaint of a clone or two. Whatever. :rolleyes:

JediTricks
08-20-2009, 01:44 PM
Legacy steps on the toes of anyone with taste. :) Seriously, though, the Dark Horse and Marvel series do often butt heads, timeline-wise.Yes, and one is commonly used in the brand, while the other is left as a curiosity that's only rarely mined.

Legacy is fine for what it is, you're just in need of a new thing to be against. :p


I just don't see a problem with releasing micro-series figures on Legacy cards, without any direct indication they're Clone Wars.We're aware you feel this way. However, for the bio text and character art, something will have to give way to their origins.



will g.lu retcon his vision of ROTS to match Filoni's CW or are we gonna get to see Ahsoka's death in the final episode?I suspect CW is meant to align with ROTS more or less by the time it wraps, but I have no idea if Ahsoka will die. IMO, it'd be more interesting if her learning from Anakin either turned her to the Dark Side or simply caused her to wash out, that would make more of a cause & effect.

El Chuxter
08-20-2009, 01:53 PM
I've been against Legacy from the beginning. Whether I liked the prequels or not, what part of "bring balance to the Force" did they not understand. The comic was indecipherable from the beginning, and the books go in a direction that's just insanely ludicrous. It's total fanwank, and nothing more. It isn't even Clone Wars, which I dislike but can respect the existence of.

JediTricks
08-20-2009, 02:08 PM
I've been against Legacy from the beginning. Whether I liked the prequels or not, what part of "bring balance to the Force" did they not understand. The comic was indecipherable from the beginning, and the books go in a direction that's just insanely ludicrous. It's total fanwank, and nothing more. It isn't even Clone Wars, which I dislike but can respect the existence of.
Right, you've been against it since before you could even give it a chance. "Balance to the Force"? Lucas' nebulous concept doesn't really have a solid footing, it doesn't say what it means, and according to what we can glean it apparently means only having light-siders, but that's not even remotely realistic, human nature will find a way to find true balance. I don't mind the idea of Sith posers, Dark Side adepts who adopt the names and ways without the full meaning.

I can't believe you're counting Legacy of the Force novel series against Legacy, they're set 90 years apart from each other.

I also think it's cheap to claim it's mere fanwank, it's a cop-out that doesn't examine what the series has done with the political natures of the various factions.

El Chuxter
08-20-2009, 02:21 PM
Sorry, they launched at the same time, deal with resurgent Sith, and both have the word "Legacy" in the name. My bad.

I bought the first issue of the Legacy comic. I was willing to follow it. But I could absolutely not make sense of what was going on until I read the freebie "zero issue." That's really sloppy storytelling to rely entirely on external information to tell your story. I decided $4 per month on a book that wasn't good wasn't worth it. And I'm glad I did. The big baddie is supposedly A'Sharad Hett, who got his arm cut off by Obi-Wan, since anyone Obi-Wan cuts an arm off of becomes a Sith Lord. There may be more depth to it now, but to me it's hard to overlook the fanwank aspect of so many silly things like "Sith Lords are cool, half-naked Twi'leks are cool, so let's combine them!"

I also got the first couple of Legacy books. They're well-written, I'll give them that. But more Boba Fett action? C'mon, bringing him back in the first place was pure fanwank, and making him a star is even worse. I dropped the series because it really bothered me how little attention was paid to the character of Jacen. I don't care what changes he's been through since he was a cute little kid getting kidnapped by Imperials every novel, becoming a Sith Lord (or wannabe Sith Lord) is far too great a stretch. The "history repeats itself" argument doesn't work; Anakin Skywalker never had his parents constantly reminding him that his grandfather had fallen to the Dark Side and become a genocidal villain loathed by all. It's a total non-sequitir.

JediTricks
08-20-2009, 02:57 PM
The "legacy era" covers ABY 40 and all beyond, but the Legacy of the Force novel series is ABY 40 while the Legacy comic series covers ABY 130 and beyond. I believe the point of the Legacy of the Force novel series is to set up the new political shape of the galaxy that we see in Legacy, but little else connective.

Sith Twi'leks are no more fanwank than Jedi Twi'leks, which is to say, they're both equally fanwank.

El Chuxter
08-20-2009, 02:59 PM
But how can you argue against a split-second cameo that has gotten Amy Allen so much money signing autographs?

I do think Aayla wears too little clothing. Nice to look at, but not befitting a role that was always described as being basically a warrior monk.

JediTricks
08-20-2009, 05:52 PM
Aayla's the WORST of both because first she was just EU fanwank, then Lucas put her in the movies!!!

And she's got a belly ring!

Mr. JabbaJohnL
08-20-2009, 06:32 PM
That's what I've been trying to say. If it's TLC realistic, it doesn't interfere with the animated line.
I don't see the conflict. Yet Lucasfilm does, I don't understand it, but that's the decision. No plausible explanation given to "Lucasfilm asked us not to do anymore Micro Series characters." Hasbro did not say why, they just said it. Show me where in any Q&A where it says why this decision is so. No one seems to want to put their feet to the fire for the reason.

The confusion may lie in the fact the two series have the same title, but I'm not asking for an expansion of animated figures into any other realm. I'm asking that Micro Series characters be treated like any other EU character, any other Poll character, any other realistic style character. It's all Star Wars, but it seems to get confused because it has the same title?

It's not like I want a realistic Ashoka.

I don't think this will ever get resolved. I can just hope for the best at this point. Can't even get a stupid repaint of a clone or two. Whatever. :rolleyes:
You're more than willing to craft a question for the Q&A thread and ask about it, just don't expect a response other than what we've seen over and over again.

Are you mad because you thought they couldn't be included in the poll? I don't think that was actually part of the rules or anything, but I could be wrong.

Blue2th
08-22-2009, 07:04 AM
You're more than willing to craft a question for the Q&A thread and ask about it, just don't expect a response other than what we've seen over and over again.

Are you mad because you thought they couldn't be included in the poll? I don't think that was actually part of the rules or anything, but I could be wrong.

Yeah, been there done that.

It's not like any of them would make it to the final round anyways. (not that I didn't try to get at least one or two) It probably would have helped if they could have been included on some definitive official list in the first place, but that didn't happen, because of their undefined status or for whatever reason.

I've kicked this dead horse long enough. Guess I can go over to the Jocasta Nu thread and contribute.
Wouldn't want to stop the wave of RS kids coming over here and padding the polls for her. Maybe we can keep some of the influx after the polls are over. :ermm:

Mad Slanted Powers
08-22-2009, 08:55 AM
It probably would have helped if they could have been included on some definitive official list in the first place, but that didn't happen, because of their undefined status or for whatever reasonIf you are referring to the lists JT posted at the beginning of each round, those were the top results from our previous polls, and the only CW figures that ranked high in the EU poll have been made (Clone armor Obi-Wan & Saesee Tiin, Clone Scuba trooper, and IG Lancer Droid).

Blue2th
08-22-2009, 10:28 AM
If you are referring to the lists JT posted at the beginning of each round, those were the top results from our previous polls, and the only CW figures that ranked high in the EU poll have been made (Clone armor Obi-Wan & Saesee Tiin, Clone Scuba trooper, and IG Lancer Droid).

Yeah well that's a list from long ago that as far as Micro Series goes did pretty well huh? That ship done sailed. Was looking for some hew blood.

Nevermind. Not that big of a deal this late in the game. Too much confusion with the new CW series, lack of a definitive answer from Hasbro, to even get more Micro in a starting lineup.

Clone Wars Micro Series are like the Ralph Nader of figures that aren't even allowed in the debate or elections metaphorically speaking. ;)