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Old Fossil
12-22-2008, 04:47 PM
This is amazing (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28283260/wid=18298287). I can't wait to buy wooden Star Wars figures!

JediTricks
12-22-2008, 05:39 PM
I'd be more impressed if I hadn't been using for the past 5 years toothbrushes made from Cellulose Propionate, a plastic derived from wood: http://www.radiustoothbrush.com/

I also bought early corn-based plastics in the form of plastic forks, but early corn-based plastics tasted HORRIBLE. They have newer corn-based plastics that are more suited to such needs, but those can't be recycled, they have to be sent to a special composting facility.

Ji'dai
12-22-2008, 06:07 PM
This thread was very misleading :dis:




I'm still waiting on transparent aluminum.

LusiferSam
12-22-2008, 10:49 PM
I also bought early corn-based plastics in the form of plastic forks, but early corn-based plastics tasted HORRIBLE. They have newer corn-based plastics that are more suited to such needs, but those can't be recycled, they have to be sent to a special composting facility.

Really? I've never noticed that before. One of my aunts use to be involved with the research into corn based plastics. We've gotten a ton of this stuff from her over the years. Plates, forks, tee shirts, pillows, blankets, coffee mugs, and other random stuff. In '94 my Mom buried a plate in the "compost" pile to test the claim of decomposition. A year later I dug it up and saw little change.

El Chuxter
12-22-2008, 11:02 PM
Must... resist... obvious... dirty joke...!

Lord Malakite
12-23-2008, 03:25 PM
I'm still waiting on transparent aluminum.
Are you planning on transporting a bunch of whales into the future by a few hundred years?

JediTricks
12-23-2008, 08:49 PM
Really? I've never noticed that before. One of my aunts use to be involved with the research into corn based plastics. We've gotten a ton of this stuff from her over the years. Plates, forks, tee shirts, pillows, blankets, coffee mugs, and other random stuff. In '94 my Mom buried a plate in the "compost" pile to test the claim of decomposition. A year later I dug it up and saw little change.The forks had a strong, bitter flavor, it was noteworthy. Like I said though, these were VERY early corn-based forks.

You can't compose corn-based plastics in normal composting environments, that's one of the complaints about them, in normal waste or compost they take 100 to 1,000 years to break down. However, they do break down to compost in a matter of weeks under the proper heat and pressure environment, but as I mentioned before, there are not many facilities which do that at this time.



I'm still waiting on transparent aluminum.Why wait? There are now ceramic camera lenses made out of transparent aluminum:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminum_oxynitride

LusiferSam
12-23-2008, 10:08 PM
The forks had a strong, bitter flavor, it was noteworthy. Like I said though, these were VERY early corn-based forks.

You can't compose corn-based plastics in normal composting environments, that's one of the complaints about them, in normal waste or compost they take 100 to 1,000 years to break down. However, they do break down to compost in a matter of weeks under the proper heat and pressure environment, but as I mentioned before, there are not many facilities which do that at this time.

How early are we talking? The earliest corn plastics I've heard of were like from the 70's and were terrible expensive and very poor in most applications. My aunt starting working in this field in the early 90's. At that time I was told very clearly that you just toss the stuff in a regular compost pile. Later it was learned that you need very specific compost conditions in order to break it down like they had hoped.

I find that all plastics are terrible misunderstood. No plastic takes 1,000 years of to break down. My mom has a 15 year old sample of corn plastic in a sealed glass container. She normal keeps in a cool, dark drawer. About 5 years she noticed it was starting to break down. I'd guess 10 to 20 years in a standard compost pile and you'd see total break down of most corn based plastics. Even petrochemical based plastics break down rather quickly. Now those do last longer in compost or landfill conditions. But exposed I've seen break down begin in a little as two years.

Ji'dai
12-23-2008, 10:57 PM
Are you planning on transporting a bunch of whales into the future by a few hundred years? Nah, anchovies. They're extinct in the 30th century, you know. Whales are everywhere, blasted pests.


Why wait? There are now ceramic camera lenses made out of transparent aluminum:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminum_oxynitride Oh, ALON doesn't count :razz:

Lord Malakite
12-24-2008, 12:51 AM
Nah, anchovies. They're extinct in the 30th century, you know. Whales are everywhere, blasted pests.
I suppose getting into the robot oil business would be the more profitable choice. :thumbsup:

JediTricks
12-24-2008, 05:09 AM
How early are we talking? The earliest corn plastics I've heard of were like from the 70's and were terrible expensive and very poor in most applications. My aunt starting working in this field in the early 90's. At that time I was told very clearly that you just toss the stuff in a regular compost pile. Later it was learned that you need very specific compost conditions in order to break it down like they had hoped. I didn't realize there were commercial corn plastics that early. This was late '90s, I don't remember exactly. I may actually have the Popular Science magazine I read about said forks in laying around somewhere deep in my closet, I went out and bought them at Whole Foods market a few days later.


I find that all plastics are terrible misunderstood. No plastic takes 1,000 years of to break down. My mom has a 15 year old sample of corn plastic in a sealed glass container. She normal keeps in a cool, dark drawer. About 5 years she noticed it was starting to break down. I'd guess 10 to 20 years in a standard compost pile and you'd see total break down of most corn based plastics. Even petrochemical based plastics break down rather quickly. Now those do last longer in compost or landfill conditions. But exposed I've seen break down begin in a little as two years.Well, everything I've seen says that PLA (Polymerized Lactic Acid) will not break down under normal conditions, otherwise in 10 years you'd have unsold bottles of water bursting. It takes specific conditions to properly break it down. This is where I got the 100 to 1,000 year quote: http://features.csmonitor.com/environment/2008/07/11/earthtalk-how-green-is-corn-based-plastic/
(that article is actually found in several places on the web verbatim, but I love that photo)

Here's another article where the manufacturer of the PLA material itself, NatureWorks, says it'll last in a regular landfill as long as traditional PET plastics, it's not fully known how long that is but estimates are... wait for it... 100 to 1,000 years (I'll link to the page saying it):
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/plastic.html?c=y&page=3

This secondary manufacturer claims no breakdown at all without specific environment:
http://www.alphap.com/products/pla.html


As an aside, here's what happens when they are composted under conditions exceeding the minimums, with photos: http://www.co.carver.mn.us/departments/LWS/docs/PLAstudy.pdf


Nah, anchovies. They're extinct in the 30th century, you know. Whales are everywhere, blasted pests.Along with those pesky owls everywhere. But you wouldn't want to lubricate all those robots, then the government would have to bail out the robot oil industry. ;)


Oh, ALON doesn't count :razz:
Annnnd, why not, exactly? And what about the other Transparent Aluminum, Aluminum Oxide? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transparent_alumina :p

Ji'dai
12-24-2008, 05:22 PM
Along with those pesky owls everywhere. But you wouldn't want to lubricate all those robots, then the government would have to bail out the robot oil industry. ;) Robot lube jobs?! I was going to open a pizza joint on Decapod 10. Besides, no one messes with Mom.


Annnnd, why not, exactly? And what about the other Transparent Aluminum, Aluminum Oxide? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transparent_alumina :p Wow, I didn't know rubies and sapphires were transparent alumina.

Mad Slanted Powers
12-25-2008, 11:12 PM
The forks had a strong, bitter flavor, it was noteworthy. Like I said though, these were VERY early corn-based forks.Well, you're not supposed to eat the forks.

JediTricks
12-28-2008, 05:55 PM
Robot lube jobs?! I was going to open a pizza joint on Decapod 10. Besides, no one messes with Mom.It appears Professor Farnsworth has, on several occasions. Ugh.


Wow, I didn't know rubies and sapphires were transparent alumina.I know, isn't that nifty? Now we just need windows made out of sapphires, and warp drives, and we're all set.



Well, you're not supposed to eat the forks.Yes, but you are supposed to put them in your mouth, and when that happens, unfortunately there's no way not to taste them. They were nasty.