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View Full Version : New law could be a major problem for toy collectors....



El Chuxter
01-07-2009, 01:23 PM
I just found out about this and am still looking for info. On February 10, it will be illegal for anyone to sell any item intended for children under 12 unless it has been tested for lead paint.

Thrift stores are obviously concerned, as it can cost in the thousands to test items. They can be run completely out of business. And this could possibly wipe out cheaper items for the less fortunate, as well.

There are no loopholes based on the size of the business (apparently even individuals having yard sales and selling on eBay are liable!). (Nor is there any loophole for handmade toys and clothing.)

I'm still looking into this, but it looks like this could severely limit our possibilities for buying and selling older toys.

bigbarada
01-07-2009, 01:36 PM
I would assume that they stopped using lead paint on toys in the 60s or 70s, so this wouldn't necessarily affect vintage Star Wars toys. I know I've been hearing about lead-free paint ever since I was a kid and I'm almost positive that Kenner never used lead paint on their toys.

Tycho
01-07-2009, 01:42 PM
Do you guys realize how long I've been sniffing these things? :crazed:

Kidhuman
01-07-2009, 02:41 PM
I can trade them though. Ebay will take a huge hit on this. What if we sell it to adults even though they are "childrens toys"?

El Chuxter
01-07-2009, 03:46 PM
It does look like they're already listening to complaints and drilling loopholes into the law, though none of the proposed changes will be implemented until after February 10, it at all.

The law as it stands now doesn't prohibit resaling toys, BTW, just requires anyone doing so to prove it's been tested and is safe. If thrift stores are found to be immune in the proposed changes, I would assume that would cover eBay sellers as well.

Beast
01-07-2009, 03:53 PM
I would assume that they stopped using lead paint on toys in the 60s or 70s, so this wouldn't necessarily affect vintage Star Wars toys. I know I've been hearing about lead-free paint ever since I was a kid and I'm almost positive that Kenner never used lead paint on their toys.
Yeah. Hasbro wasn't one of the companies who've had issues with Lead Paint in the last couple years. Mattel however has been dealing with tons of recalls over figures and toys with lead paint.

El Chuxter
01-07-2009, 03:59 PM
The problem with the law right now is that the seller has to offer proof that a toy is lead-free. Not an issue for most sellers who know what they have. But it makes it impossible for folks who aren't sure, or for thrift stores/flea markets/swap meets who don't have the time or manpower to research. The days of finding cool toys in a flea market or yard sale could be doomed.

And is simply pointing out what an item is and that it's lead free sufficient, or would the seller have to offer proof (an added expense)? That's not clear right now.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
01-07-2009, 07:17 PM
The article on the main page here said it would be illegal to resell used toys or clothes, so maybe it only applies to open toys? If so, then no big deal. If not, then that would suck since I'm still looking for a lot of older SW stuff.

Snowtrooper
01-07-2009, 07:32 PM
Yet another example of laws being passed so lawmakers can feel good about themselves and with no consideration as to how it affects the general population.

sith_killer_99
01-07-2009, 09:26 PM
Oh trust me they have thought about this. They want us to spend money on shiney new things so we can get the economy going again and keep pushing the corporate machine.:twisted:

JediTricks
01-07-2009, 09:29 PM
Yeah, no worries that this is about children buying used toys that are loaded with unsafe chemicals. :rolleyes:

Beast
01-07-2009, 09:30 PM
Yeah, no worries that this is about children buying used toys that are loaded with unsafe chemicals. :rolleyes:
Curse you Mattel!

sith_killer_99
01-07-2009, 09:54 PM
Yeah, no worries that this is about children buying used toys that are loaded with unsafe chemicals.

That's called "pretext"...don't believe the hype, and remember, just because you may be paranoid, that doesn't mean they aren't out to get you...or does it? :yes:

Blue2th
01-07-2009, 10:11 PM
It's unclear as to whether this law is retroactive or for toys manufactured after a certain date.
A lot of secondary sellers are worried, as well as places like Goodwill.

What it will do is put a lot of second tier toy companies out of the game, because the testing will be too expensive.
21st Century Toys is already on life support. :cry:

This could also limit the variety of different toys one manufacturer might issue because each initial toy will have to be certified.

This law needs to be sent back to the drawing board.
They need to be practical here.

Hasbro and Mattel-the one responsible for this, are probably licking their chops at the thought of decreased competition.

sith_killer_99
01-07-2009, 10:18 PM
On the flip side AFA could make a LOT of money.

Hey fans, have your toy encased in a thick plastic tomb, graded and verified for resell, complete with certificate of authenticity.

LOL

Snowtrooper
01-07-2009, 10:58 PM
By the time they get around to creating loopholes and exemptions, it will be too late for alot of small/home businesses. Yeah, thats great for our economy.

And why include clothes? I haven't heard of clothes being made with lead. This wreaks of some dirty deal.

The more I think about this, the more ****ed off I get.

bobafrett
01-08-2009, 08:39 AM
I have no intention of selling any of my collection.............Myyyyy Preccciouuusssss!

And I'm to broke to buy tainted toys, so I'm all good!

Blue2th
01-08-2009, 09:43 AM
This law needs to be amended.
It's too broad and non specific.

The idea behind it is to stop new tainted toys from hitting the market, but it effects a lot of other things.

It doesn't address the fact that some businesses have warehouse stock that has already been paid for.

Many handmade clothes makers and knitters won't be able to sell their stuff.

Handmade toys and crafts.

Small European toy manufacturers who already have better laws and screening than the US.

I don't understand why the suppliers of raw materials are not being scrutinized or penalized. If you want a place to start, that's where they should.
Surely lead can be found a lot easier before it's been used in paint or manufacturing.

Hopefully our new Prez elect, who has been described as practical and pragmatic, level headed, can take a close look at this and go WTF were you guys thinking?

I don't want to get political, but with a Dem congress and a Rep president, who is really behind this new law? Who are the ones who stand to benefit? The ones who perpetrated the mistakes?
It just doesn't make sense.

DarkJedi5
01-08-2009, 12:45 PM
So the story is mentioned on the SSG front page (http://www.sirstevesguide.com/index.php?categoryid=10&p2_articleid=1881) and I've done a little digging on my own and this looks like a lot of bad news for collectors. From the reading I did on the Consumer Product Safety Commission's Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act website (http://http://www.cpsc.gov/about/cpsia/cpsia.html) it seems to me that this will get a lot of shops to stop selling vintage toys and even those from as recent as this past year. The explanations of the legislation that I have come across say that occasional sellers won't be impacted (like garage sales) but any business that relys on toy sales as a regular aspect of their business will fall under the new laws. It isn't clear yet what this means for people who buy old figures off of eBay (because eBay is made up of occasional sellers and etailers alike). The law comes into effect on February 10th of 2009 and after that all new products for children 12 and under will have to be tested with new lead standards inplace meaning anything that wasn't tested cannot be sold. I guess if you've got any holes in your collection that need filling, you've got about a month before it becomes a lot tougher?

bigbarada
01-08-2009, 12:50 PM
So the story is mentioned on the SSG front page (http://www.sirstevesguide.com/index.php?categoryid=10&p2_articleid=1881) and I've done a little digging on my own and this looks like a lot of bad news for collectors. From the reading I did on the Consumer Product Safety Commission's Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act website (http://http://www.cpsc.gov/about/cpsia/cpsia.html) it seems to me that this will get a lot of shops to stop selling vintage toys and even those from as recent as this past year. The explanations of the legislation that I have come across say that occasional sellers won't be impacted (like garage sales) but any business that relys on toy sales as a regular aspect of their business will fall under the new laws. It isn't clear yet what this means for people who buy old figures off of eBay (because eBay is made up of occasional sellers and etailers alike). The law comes into effect on February 10th of 2009 and after that all new products for children 12 and under will have to be tested with new lead standards inplace meaning anything that wasn't tested cannot be sold. I guess if you've got any holes in your collection that need filling, you've got about a month before it becomes a lot tougher?

If this is true, then I predict all the Etailers will be unloading their vintage toys like crazy in the next few weeks, just to keep from getting stuck with toys they can't sell.

Jargo
01-08-2009, 01:22 PM
man, lead never did us any harm back in the d-d-d-pshawpfftbzzzzzargh-ay. All this fuss over n-n-n-nothAAARGHing.

El Chuxter
01-08-2009, 01:33 PM
I found several articles from Oregon, where it looks like one of the representatives (not sure of his party) sponsored this bill WITHOUT KNOWING WHAT THE SPECIFICS WERE!

Reminds you of the Congressman who told Michael Moore in Farenheit 911, when asked why he voted for the Patriot Act, that no one in Congress actually reads the things they vote on. :dead:

DarkArtist
01-08-2009, 01:49 PM
Lead what Lead... Where ????? I'm so confused :D

Dark Marble
01-08-2009, 02:20 PM
I will be very interested to see how this will shake out. What will the law apply to? How will it be enforced? What will be the safety standards on old toys?

Actually this all just seems like a bunch of non-sense. Are collectors of all toys going to be forced into a prohibition type setting asking for figures under the tables of speakeasies? Are retailers going to be forced to scrap and give away hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of product before Valentine's Day or face federal prison time and fines???


I really really doubt it.

DarkJedi5
01-08-2009, 02:29 PM
Well the back door is to get the toys tested. If the old toys pass the new standards then the toy is clear for sale. Things that are worth a lot of money will naturally be tested and sold on to collectors, but what about everything else? That MOC figure on eBay going for $20 probably isn't worth the effort to get tested for lead, the question is what becomes of those?

Dark Marble
01-08-2009, 02:55 PM
So far it really doesn't seem like anything to worry about. If you start looking around there is really no info on this new law and what its aims are. Plus it really looks like there is no one ready to go on record about it.

A law has to be reasonable and enforceable and how does prohibiting the resale of 30+ years of all toys sound to be either?

Snowtrooper
01-08-2009, 03:28 PM
I don't want to get political, but with a Dem congress and a Rep president, who is really behind this new law? Who are the ones who stand to benefit? The ones who perpetrated the mistakes?
It just doesn't make sense.


Both sides are responsible for this. The Congress for taking what started out as a decent idea and adding all those BS amendments to it until you get what we have now. And the prez for not having the backbone to veto such a load of crap.

The ones who benefit are chinese factories who caused this whole problem in the first place. Secondary market competition is eliminated here, so they can churn out more product and make more money. Wal-Mart, Target, & other big retail chains will also benefit from less competition.

There are alot of people out there who cant afford to go out and buy new clothes and toys. With the economy in the shape it is, this is only going to get worse. The used market was always a nice alternative for them. In my eyes, this is a direct assault on small business and the continuation of criminalizing our entire society.

My apologies if I've offended anyone with my rant.

Beast
01-08-2009, 04:38 PM
Ok, everyone needs to calm down. The law has been clarified.

From Toy Ark:

The Toy Industry Association has posted some clarifying information on the recent story about toy resales being banned.

Therefore, the Counsel’s conclusion is that the new standard applies to “only those products manufactured after the effective date of the new standard.”

So it seems initial outrage may be a bit unwarranted. We will keep everyone updated as more info becomes available. You can read the full story Here.

http://www.toyassociation.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Toy_Safety&Template=/CM/HTMLDisplay.cfm&ContentID=5916

El Chuxter
01-08-2009, 04:58 PM
They only changed it because Kris Kristofferson told them to.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
01-08-2009, 05:51 PM
The law wasn't clarified by the lawmakers, just by some committee that interpreted the law. So, they still could have gotten it wrong.

DarkJedi5
01-08-2009, 07:01 PM
So according to the link Beast posted this actually only affects the sale of toys that have yet to be produced. Which means that this would have no impact on the reselling of old toys because they would be produced before 2/10/09 and thus not affected and any toy sold after would have had to pass the lead test. So the way I see it this will have little impact on the consumers only the manufacturers.

Blue2th
01-08-2009, 11:27 PM
Common sense would say that this law is not retroactive. But ya never know.
I'd say stranger things have happened, but I can't think of anything as absurd as this.



"when toys are outlawed only outlaws will have toys"
or:
"you can have my toy when you pry my cold dead fingers off it"
or:
"psst, hey kid wanna buy some toys?" :bandit:

bobafrett
01-09-2009, 12:11 PM
They only changed it because Kris Kristofferson told them to.


That's good because I have a Kris Kristofferson action figure!

El Chuxter
01-09-2009, 01:21 PM
They tried to make a Kris Kristofferson action figure (based on him as himself, not as a character from Blade). The awesomeness destroyed the mold. They made the BMF Falcon instead.

TIE DEFENDER
01-09-2009, 07:14 PM
It`s a nonsense law.:upset:

TeeEye7
01-09-2009, 07:48 PM
Yet another example of laws being passed so lawmakers can feel good about themselves and with no consideration as to how it affects the general population.

That's their job. They'd stop doing things like this if they lived in reality.

Jedi_Kal-El
01-10-2009, 12:57 AM
They tried to make a Kris Kristofferson action figure (based on him as himself, not as a character from Blade). The awesomeness destroyed the mold. They made the BMF Falcon instead.

Didn't they make a Rubber Ducky action figure back when Convoy came out?

bobafrett
01-10-2009, 09:43 AM
I don't know, but I remember a mini van or maybe a VW van with a Rubber Ducky decal you put on the side. I know, because I owned and assembled one. Later I loaded it with firecrackers, and set it ablaze blowing melted plastic about the dirt ground behind my neighbors garage.