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View Full Version : Big Slip Up, Georgie!



Jek Porky 2002
02-21-2002, 05:34 PM
I know it's really obvious to us, but on the Audio comentary of the Phantom Menace, when Darth Sidious apeers for the first time as a hologram on the Trade Federation Control ship, George Lucas says something along the lines of "that is how we saw him for the first time on The Empire Strikes Back", but as far as we're concerned Palpatine and Sidious are two different people.

Ha Ha, gotcha George!

LTBasker
02-21-2002, 05:46 PM
Only from a certain point of view...

He could also mean as in the individual who was behind it all. Palpy was the ONE behind it all in ESB, and Siddy was behind it E1, so only from a certain point of view could that be considered evidence. :)

Jek Porky 2002
02-21-2002, 05:51 PM
What the hell are you talking about?

Lord Tenebrous
02-21-2002, 06:20 PM
Palpatine = Sidious
Dooku = Tyranus


The Sith are taking over the galaxy while acting as the leaders of warring galactic factions. The role of duality is essential, especially to represent the massive amount of manipulation occurring on multiple sides.

DARTH DUBIOUS
02-21-2002, 06:59 PM
Wull, y'see, it's like my Momma used to tell me - 'life is like a box o' chocolates'.........

HEHEHE! :D

How can they not be the same person, they both wear the same brooch for gods sake! Everybody knows that you NEVER EVER lend out your cloak brooch, so it has to be Palpatine on the bridge of the trade feds ship in hologram and also with Mauly Maul. And the cloaks are made from the same cloth and they both have that dimple in their chins and - they're both played by the same guy and they're both the same height and they both have the same voice and they both.... no, can't think of another one.

Um, why is this such a big deal again? ;)

LTBasker
02-21-2002, 07:03 PM
Jek, what I mean is, Lucas could've actually been refering to Sidious as the main character behind everything as Palpatine was the character behind everything in the original trilogy and not necassarialy have been refering to Sidious as Palpatine.

derek
02-21-2002, 08:52 PM
this is no slip up. lucas is stating the obvious. sideous is palpatine.plain and simple.

master jedi
02-21-2002, 09:05 PM
Originally posted by derek
this is no slip up. lucas is stating the obvious. sideous is palpatine.plain and simple.

This is only a slip up to people who can't see the obvious.

LTBasker
02-21-2002, 11:24 PM
I like to look past the obvious, into the complex, which seems to be hard for several. :D

Co Jo-Da
02-22-2002, 02:12 AM
Originally posted by Lord Tenebrous
Palpatine = Sidious
Dooku = Tyranus

Enough Said...

jawaboy
02-22-2002, 09:01 AM
On the official site it talks about Dooku as a charismatic separatist and rebel leader. Does anyone think that there will be a reversal in the third film, so that Dooku goes against Palpy and the Rebellion we see in the OT stems from Dooku? Afterall, it is the incessant corruption that Dooku is against, not necessarily galactic domination.

Darth Evil
02-22-2002, 02:32 PM
If you look at the pictures of Palpatine and Sidious in the E1 Visual Dictionary, you'll also see that their noses are identical. Unless Lucas wants a twist of ESB proportions, he'll have them as the same person.

LTBasker
02-22-2002, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by Darth Evil
If you look at the pictures of Palpatine and Sidious in the E1 Visual Dictionary, you'll also see that their noses are identical. Unless Lucas wants a twist of ESB proportions, he'll have them as the same person.

Gee I guess that's what happens when the same actor plays them. Although that doesn't prove anything, yeesh, Jeremy Bulloch played Boba Fett and an Imperial Officer on Bespin, that doesn't mean Fett infiltrated the Imperials undercover to get secret information. :rolleyes:

Jedi Clint
02-22-2002, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by jawaboy
On the official site it talks about Dooku as a charismatic separatist and rebel leader. Does anyone think that there will be a reversal in the third film, so that Dooku goes against Palpy and the Rebellion we see in the OT stems from Dooku? Afterall, it is the incessant corruption that Dooku is against, not necessarily galactic domination.

No, I think it is a completely different group of people. I think Palpatine will unify the factions of the Republic that Dooku helped to split in AOTC some time during E3 allowing him to become Emperor.

I also think the Rebel Alliance is born of the few remaining Jedi Knights and their sympathizers (leaders and politicians)......and it just grows from there. A very small start at first though, as Palpatine will have the vast majority of support.

Also Count Dooku may be a political idealist, but Darth Tyranus is a Sith Lord. Bail Organa supports Palpatine in AOTC, while Nute Gunray supports Dooku. There will be some major side-switchin' going on in the next film.

Beast
02-22-2002, 03:14 PM
Palpatine could always be a clone of Darth Sidious. Ya have to figure, training his student Maul, as well as serving in the galactic senate at the same time sure takes alot of time up. When would he have time to sleep? Hmm, maybe that's why he looks like death warmed over by ROTJ, it was all those all nighters in his youth. :D

But the clone idea is a possibility, from what I understand the kaminoian cloners started mass production 10 years ago, and that the clones (other then Boba Fett) age at twice the normal rate. Palpatine could have been the original prototype created from himself, when he visited Kamino under the guise of the head of the Jedi council Sido-Dyas. And we have no clue exactly when Sidious first showed up on Kamino to set the cloning plans into motion.

We know that Palpatine is around 50 some years old as of Episode 1. So therefor, he could have been created approximatly 25 years before E1, which would be roughly around the same time that Sidious would be training Darth Maul. Creating a clone to handle the annoyances of the senate, so that he can direct his attentions to training Maul and start his plans in motion would be what I would do. :D After all, remember the Jedi's never even felt a twinge of the dark side even though Palpatine was standing right in a large grouping of them during E1.

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Jek Porky 2002
02-22-2002, 03:30 PM
Of course the biggest shock in film history could be the revelation that they are actually not the same person, that would be a refreshing little suprise for us.

jawaboy
02-22-2002, 05:30 PM
How wild would that be? Palpy trains himself to take over the galaxy. It's like a mini-Palpy.

preacher
02-24-2002, 01:16 PM
If Sideous and Palpatine are two different individuals why would Sideous remain on Coruscant. Seems like an awefully big risk to stay on the same planet the jedi occupy unless you're locating yourself on Corruscant was critical to your plan. Such as overseeing the political arena. Which would make since because ... SIDEOUS AND PALPATINE are the same person.

Are you forgetting that in the next episode Palpaine has the exact same chair that was in the throne room of the DSII? Are you saying that after Palpatine accomplishes what Sideous told him to do that he goes to Palpatines appartment spies the chair and thinks to himself, "You know that is a very nice chair that my clone has. I think I'll keep it for myself."

Don't overanalyze the Sideous Palpatine connection. Remember that the entire star wars ...er...Hexology? is meant to be watched from EPI-EPVI. Its unfortunate that we know from the OT that Palpatine is the emperor, otherwise the fact that the friendly grandfatherly and polite Senator Palpaine becomeing Chancellor and eventually becoming emperor would have match greater shock. The symbolism is there right in front of you, you just have to unlearn what you already learned.

Beast
02-24-2002, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by preacher
Are you forgetting that in the next episode Palpaine has the exact same chair that was in the throne room of the DSII? Are you saying that after Palpatine accomplishes what Sideous told him to do that he goes to Palpatines appartment spies the chair and thinks to himself, "You know that is a very nice chair that my clone has. I think I'll keep it for myself."
It's a similar chair, but not the exact same chair. If you look at the chair in Episode II, it doesn't have the headrest upper section that is on the chair on the Death Star II. Having a similar chair doesn't prove anything. We know that cloning is a major aspect of the next movie, so there is always a chance of Palpatine being a clone of Darth Sidious.

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

2-1B
02-24-2002, 03:00 PM
I really believe (and HOPE) that the two are the same person. There is a much better story involved if one man is able to deceive and manipulate his way into supreme rule instead of an "evil twin" scenario that might come off as too "science fiction." I think there is a lesson here about the tragic abuse of trust and friendship.

LTBasker
02-24-2002, 05:03 PM
In the beginning of E1 both Sidious and Palpy are sending holograms but both act differently then would've been able to have been implemented into a recording.

A Jedi Council of 12 + Obi&Qui + The Chosen One = Not enough to since the Dark Side if it was standing right next to them? Hard to see it is, sure, but c'mon...

Surely the Jedi would've been monitoring transmissions from Coruscant to the Trade Federation ships around Naboo.

Things aren't always the obvious in SW.

jw_bryant
02-24-2002, 05:59 PM
Originally posted by preacher
Don't overanalyze...

thats exactly the problem. people over analyze way too much. take the first answer that makes sense. :)

preacher
02-24-2002, 08:37 PM
Egad! That would be even worse if WASN'T the same chair.

Instead of "You know that is a mighty fine chair my clone has...I think I'll take it."

______________

You'd get

SIDEOUS

"My goodness my clone had mighty fine taste in furniture. I do wonder where he obtained such a fine chair...Vader!"

VADER

"yes my master"

SIDEOUS

"You're next duty as sith lord is to find the exact model chair as this one here"

VADER

"Um...master, wouldn't it be easier just to take that one? I mean you're clone won't be needing it anymore"

SIDEOUS

"No. I want mine to have a bit more black in it. This one is far to platinum colored for my taste. Besides it doesn't have a headrest"

VADER

"Then couldn't we have some clone troopers paint it black? Then perhaps add a headrest"

SIDEOUS

"Vader who is the sith master here?"

VADER

"You are master"

SIDEOUS

"And who is apprentice?"

VADER

"I am"

SIDEOUS

"Need I say more"

VADER

"As you wish...master"

JediTricks
02-24-2002, 11:00 PM
Luke's face changes dramatically from ANH to ESB, are we to assume that the guy almost killed on Hoth was Luuke, the clone?

I don't think it was ever Lucas' intention to keep Sidious a big secret to the audience, in Lucas' the journal of the whills (a short SW synopsis from 26+ years ago which he's basing a lot of the framework of the prequels upon), he makes it quite clear that Senator Palpatine rises to power while manipulating behind the scenes, becomes Supreme Chancellor of the Senate (he wrote "president of the senate", I believe) and eventually uses this seat to make himself the Emperor we see in ESB and ROTJ.

I think everybody expects big surprise twists from Lucas because ESB and ROTJ had 1 big twist each (and ESB had a smaller twist in the form of Yoda being a little green guy), but that's not a proof of Lucas' style since Lucas didn't directly write or direct those 2; yet Lucas made several "clues" to Senator Palpatine being Sidious/"Emperor Palpatine" in Episode I without being blatant - the opposite of what he'd do if he were going to be doing a big twist. I would be totally disappointed if Lucas made Senator/Supreme Chancellor Palpatine a different character from Darth Sidious/Emperor Palpatine from ROTJ - this would serve no purpose. Besides, most audience members who didn't get the "clues" about Palp being Sid will be surprised by that twist in Ep 2 when they're shown to be the same guy.

Beast
02-24-2002, 11:05 PM
Originally posted by JediTricks
Luke's face changes dramatically from ANH to ESB, are we to assume that the guy almost killed on Hoth was Luuke, the clone?
The facial feature changes were explained away in the movie thru the wampa attack scene though. There is still a small possibility that Palpatine could be a clone. After all, many never considered the fact that Boba Fett could be one either, but he is. :D

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

LTBasker
02-24-2002, 11:09 PM
Originally posted by JarJarBinks

After all, we never considered the fact that Boba Fett could be one either, but he is. :D

And we didn't even see his face! :eek:

Like it's been pointed out many times, things aren't always the obvious in SW. :cool:

Wolfwood319
02-25-2002, 12:56 AM
Some people here have way too much time on their hands.




Of course the biggest shock in film history could be the revelation that they are actually not the same person, that would be a refreshing little suprise for us.

Yeah Porky, the biggest shock in film history. Only to you my friend, only to you...

Darth Evil
02-25-2002, 04:20 PM
Yeah, I think we should leave this issue for the moment, until after we see AOTC! :crazed: Seriously though, I think the idea of Palpatine doing his concerned Senator/Supreme Chancellor act then turning around and stabbing everyone in the back just shows how evil he really is. It would be far more interesting to see the evil of his character finally reveal itself in E3. We'll just see what Lucas does....

Co Jo-Da
02-25-2002, 08:36 PM
Originally posted by Darth Evil
Yeah, I think we should leave this issue for the moment, until after we see AOTC! :crazed: Seriously though, I think the idea of Palpatine doing his concerned Senator/Supreme Chancellor act then turning around and stabbing everyone in the back just shows how evil he really is. It would be far more interesting to see the evil of his character finally reveal itself in E3. We'll just see what Lucas does....

I think the samething, Palpatine is Darth Sidious but WE'LL HAVE TO WAIT TILL EPISODE III, so can everyone chill out...

jw_bryant
02-25-2002, 09:31 PM
boy i love hate getting ignored.

Toad
02-28-2002, 05:28 PM
It does seem way too blatantly obvious that GL will make them the same person. But I don't see how it could work out any other way.

Now, this Dooku/Tyranus thing is getting ridiculous. Too many 2-faced people.

Co Jo-Da
02-28-2002, 05:34 PM
Originally posted by Toad
Now, this Dooku/Tyranus thing is getting ridiculous.

Here...Here TOAD!