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Darth Metalmute
06-25-2009, 06:39 PM
Just coming across the wire, Micheal Jackson is dead at 50.

El Chuxter
06-25-2009, 06:42 PM
Wow. I'm in shock. I know he's been exhibiting a disturbing level of eccentricity for about 25 years, and has looked like a zombie for more than a decade, but, still, this is some sad news.

Regardless of how he's acted of late, the man was one of the greatest pop singers of all time.

Darth Duranium
06-25-2009, 07:10 PM
There's no denying his talent as an entertainer 25 years ago but his predilection for young boys overshadowed any legacy he had left, IMO.

To lionize him now that he's dead seems pretty disingenuous to me, considering the negative media attention he's received due to his sickening tastes and bizarre narcissistic (Wacko Jacko) behaviours... but I expect that's what's coming up...

bobafrett
06-25-2009, 07:13 PM
What? Nothing on Farrah?

Rest in Peace, both Farrah, and Micheal.

DarthBrandon
06-25-2009, 07:13 PM
Meh,

Farrah Fawcett died today as well, much more respect for her than this bum.

Mad Slanted Powers
06-25-2009, 07:14 PM
Regardless of how he's acted of late, the man was one of the greatest pop singers of all time.Agreed. I've purchased "Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough" and "Off the Wall" from iTunes. At some point I might get "Beat It", "Billy Jean" and perhaps a couple others. I never cared for much his stuff after Thriller.

I heard some people at work talking about something, but I didn't hear who it was until I got home.

El Chuxter
06-25-2009, 07:26 PM
There's no denying his talent as an entertainer 25 years ago but his predilection for young boys overshadowed any legacy he had left, IMO.

To lionize him now that he's dead seems pretty disingenuous to me, considering the negative media attention he's received due to his sickening tastes and bizarre narcissistic (Wacko Jacko) behaviours... but I expect that's what's coming up...

And Pete Townsend is a pedophile. And Phil Spector is a murderer. And Eric Clapton is such a lousy father he let his son fall out of a window in his high-rise apartment. And John Lennon moved in with his wife's personal assistant for several years. And Great White tend to burn up folks at their concerts.

Doesn't mean any of them aren't some damned good musicians. Same goes for Michael. No matter what he did, how he acted, or how mediocre his later stuff was, everything up through the Bad album was golden.

I do hope he had the foresight to will the rights to the Beatles' catalog to McCartney and that troll who married Lennon, though.

Blue2th
06-25-2009, 07:28 PM
Yeah Off the Wall was his best IMO, then he went and put that putty where his nose used to be. Then he bleached all his mojo out and went freakezoid. Lots of talent though. He'll be remembered for the good music as well as the other stuff. Better fate than Phil Spector.

I'm gonna miss Farrah.

mabudonicus
06-25-2009, 07:30 PM
Yeah, somehow I was more surprised he made it this far after his true superstardom period- as a self professed Metal King I have no problem admitting that I think "wanna be startin' something" is one of the more kick-arse tunes EVER put down out of ANY genre- I actually checked out a live performance from the 80's on youtube recently and it made me rock out like MAD...

With all the negatives the poor guy had to deal with, I hope he is in the same place he was in when he was layin down the KILLER material I will always remember him by.

RIP- he was far from perfect in some aspects, but seriously who ISN'T exactly?? The stuff he did RIGHT is all that's important
:beard: Iso&Baws&topes

I could get myself super-banned if I added "the rest of the story"

Mr. JabbaJohnL
06-25-2009, 07:37 PM
What a strange man he was, from the glove to the baby-dangling to the skin color change to the neverending quest to recapture a childhood he never had. I've never been the biggest fan of his music but it is damn good. It's still quite shocking to hear about it, though.

Old Fossil
06-25-2009, 07:39 PM
Jeez. Two icons gone in one day, three in a week.:(

Mad Slanted Powers
06-25-2009, 07:47 PM
I thought the skin color thing was a disease.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitiligo

Beast
06-25-2009, 08:07 PM
I thought the skin color thing was a disease.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitiligo
It was.

But he apperantly bleached his skin after it started, rather than have discolored patches.

It's a shame that he passed away. Yes, he was incredibly weird, but he still was an incredibly talented artist and his contributions to the music scene won't ever be forgotten. That's his legacy that really matters.

Darth Duranium
06-25-2009, 08:14 PM
And Pete Townsend is a pedophile. And Phil Spector is a murderer. And Eric Clapton is such a lousy father he let his son fall out of a window in his high-rise apartment. And John Lennon moved in with his wife's personal assistant for several years. And Great White tend to burn up folks at their concerts.

Doesn't mean any of them aren't some damned good musicians. Same goes for Michael. No matter what he did, how he acted, or how mediocre his later stuff was, everything up through the Bad album was golden.

I do hope he had the foresight to will the rights to the Beatles' catalog to McCartney and that troll who married Lennon, though.

Pete obviously had a good lawyer (like MJ) but I don't listen to his "Rough Boys" stuff or The Who anymore. Or anything by Gary Glitter, either.

Spector actually pulled a gun on Lennon in the 70's... Phil should have been jailed years ago (with MJ, Pete, and Gary). Clapton's kid left Level 42 and joined New Kids On The Block but it was clearly a freak accident, not an intentional act. Great White's human marshmallow roast was unintentional, too.

I mean, so what if Jackson could dance and sing? I just don't get why the public is willing to continue to worship a sicko like Michael. His "talent" doesn't mean squat if he's a $10 million unconvicted child molester... how can people be blind to that? I'm sure Jeffrey Dahmer had a nice singing voice....

BTW, MJ screwed McCartney out of the Beatles catalogue shortly after he received Paul's advice about getting into music publishing as an investment. Swell guy.

Beast
06-25-2009, 08:27 PM
So that's what you're in a snit about?

He didn't "screw" McCartney. It's a hell of a lot more complicated than that. There was a bidding war, and he won. And you should be happy to know that MJ was planning to return the rights to the Beetles catalog to Paul. In fact his will supposedly returns his half of the rights to McCartney.

http://www.spinner.com/2009/01/06/jackson-leaving-beatles-songs-to-mccartney-in-will/

Darth Duranium
06-25-2009, 08:38 PM
So that's what you're in a snit about?

He didn't "screw" McCartney. It's a hell of a lot more complicated than that. There was a bidding war, and he won. And you should be happy to know that MJ was planning to return the rights to the Beetles catalog to Paul. In fact his will supposedly returns his half of the rights to McCartney.

http://www.spinner.com/2009/01/06/jackson-leaving-beatles-songs-to-mccartney-in-will/


It's common knowledge that he screwed McCartney and he obviously felt like a jerk for doing it later... clearly that's why he wants to give the catalogue back.

And no, I'm not in a "snit" about his treatment of Paul or Yoko... they're both rich and they're not kids.

I'm sickened by the worship of a dead child molester, obviously.

DarthQuack
06-25-2009, 08:44 PM
I'm just in shock of all this today....Words fail me....:cry:

El Chuxter
06-25-2009, 08:46 PM
My point is sort of what mabs was saying: no one is perfect. And Jacko was, in many ways, far less perfect than most. I've always thought the guy was one of the best, if not THE best, R&B singer of his time. All artists are screwed up in one way or another; if you can't separate their flaws from their work, you can't really enjoy much of anything. Should I stop listening to "Ride of the Valkyries" because Wagner was anti-Semitic? Mark Twain and Jonathan Swift were two of the most bitter misanthropes to ever live, so should I hate them? All evidence indicates Lewis Carroll was a pedophile (even if there's no reason to believe he ever actually acted on his impulses), so should we burn Alice in Wonderland now?

You can attribute the greatness of the Jackson 5 to the often-underappreciated talents of his brothers, or the glory of Thriller to Quincy Jones' production, but, without someone with the talent and artistic vision of Michael in the middle, they simply would never have been what they are.

For the record, I've always found the molestation charges fishy. Why only two kids over twenty years, when he'd palled around with so many, and was indisputably closer to others? To me, it looks like two opportunistic sets of parents taking advantage of Jackson's very distorted sense of what's appropriate and what's not. I'm not denying Jackson put himself into a lot of very questionable situations because he simply wasn't all there, but the allegations never quite stacked up in my mind.

BTW, Beast, thanks for the link about the Beatles' rights. I've been wondering that.

Mad Slanted Powers
06-25-2009, 08:52 PM
How do you know he actually molested anyone? He wasn't convicted, and he settled out of court on the other one. I just heard someone that knew him said Michael told him he never touched anyone inappropriately, and he settled just because he couldn't take it anymore. He said he liked hanging out with kids because they were the only ones that told him the truth. His behavior was weird, but who knows what really went on. So, I'm not going to bash the guy over something I know nothing about.

Tycho
06-25-2009, 09:09 PM
Another one bites the dust. Comments?

I am saddened that he was only 50 and inspite of his great wealth and success, I don't think he ever found what he was looking for in himself and his life.

Darth Duranium
06-25-2009, 09:11 PM
Here's 15.3 million reasons why he's a pedophile.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0616041jacko1.html

He may not be guilty of the later charges levelled against him by the other kids... but this child was able to accurately describe Jackson's genitals.... shortly before the payout. Coincidence? Remember Jackson's forced genital photo session at the L.A. police station? The only reason he wasn't jailed was because he was so wealthy and he paid them off.... Gary Glitter wasn't so lucky.

I have no problem with freakish eccentricities in rock stars at all, so long as they leave kids alone.

bigbarada
06-25-2009, 09:13 PM
You can't really deny his influence on pop music. While he might have been really screwed up in the head, he was still incredibly talented.

Beast
06-25-2009, 09:16 PM
How do you know he actually molested anyone? He wasn't convicted, and he settled out of court on the other one. I just heard someone that knew him said Michael told him he never touched anyone inappropriately, and he settled just because he couldn't take it anymore. He said he liked hanging out with kids because they were the only ones that told him the truth. His behavior was weird, but who knows what really went on. So, I'm not going to bash the guy over something I know nothing about.
Exactly.

He was a guy who didn't have a real childhood, who was trying to recapture it.

Yeah, he wasn't exactly right in the head. But folks do lie, especially when there's money involved.

El Chuxter
06-25-2009, 09:25 PM
I can't believe we're arguing about this still....

He hung out with kids. All the time. He had sleepovers. He had no sense of what's appropriate between an adult and a child. I can buy that, at some point, the kid saw him naked, maybe taking a leak or changing clothes. I don't mean to be completely and crassly blunt, but if a woman bends down in front of me and is wearing a low-cut top without a bra, and I can accurately describe her breasts because I saw them accidentally, that doesn't mean I had sex with her. I won't deny he shouldn't have put himself in a position where a kid could see him undressed, but that was the most compelling evidence raised against him, and it doesn't convince me, not when given how undeniably not-quite-right he was.

Beast
06-25-2009, 09:28 PM
I can't believe we're arguing about this still....

He hung out with kids. All the time. He had sleepovers. He had no sense of what's appropriate between an adult and a child. I can buy that, at some point, the kid saw him naked, maybe taking a leak or changing clothes. I don't mean to be completely and crassly blunt, but if a woman bends down in front of me and is wearing a low-cut top without a bra, and I can accurately describe her breasts because I saw them accidentally, that doesn't mean I had sex with her. I won't deny he shouldn't have put himself in a position where a kid could see him undressed, but that was the most compelling evidence raised against him, and it doesn't convince me, not when given how undeniably not-quite-right he was.
Ditto. It's not like he left a bloody glove in a kid's pants or something. :D

2-1B
06-25-2009, 09:51 PM
Say what you will about Jackson's weirdness and possible crimes...but how about this media coverage? Fox News (during Geraldo's show) just showed footage of the Coroner's office loading his body from a helicopter into a van. Michael's body is wrapped, of course, but you can make out his feet and stuff.

Now Geraldo just said "I'm sure we'll see it again"...what a joke.

And for the record, since the topic won't die, I'll just say I'm with Chux that the allegations were fishy. I'm not saying that I believe he's innocent, just that I can't say I believe he's guilty...I don't think the case against him is as solid as some people think.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
06-25-2009, 11:54 PM
RIP MJ. You were a musical genius and a legend.

Bel-Cam Jos
06-26-2009, 12:02 AM
Ed McMahon suffered near the end. Farrah Fawcett definitely suffered at the end. Michael Jackson suffered (not so much physically) for a long time prior to his end. All sad. May they truly have peace.

Darth Duranium
06-26-2009, 01:42 AM
If these allegations had been made by your own kids, I sincerely doubt the MJ fans would feel the same way about it.

I used to work with abused kids so I have zero tolerance for people like Jackson. It honestly makes me sick to hear rationalizations and the minimizing of what is clearly degenerate and sick behaviour. There's loads of evidence from multiple cases (and his own interviews) that showed Jackson to be a truly sick, unapologetic, and deluded man.

His "talent" became moot as soon as he became a pedo, as far I'm concerned.

Noone, especially an "entertainer", pays out $15.3 million on an allegation like that unless he knew he was gonna be held accountable and/or jailed.

Ok that's all I have to say about that guy. I have a hunch that the rest of Jackson's skeletons will be exposed to the world very soon... and we'll find out a lot more, mark my words.
At least the kids will be a little safer with him in the ground.

Tycho
06-26-2009, 03:54 AM
I agree with what Darth Titanium said, however I don't feel as comfortable putting it so harshly while the body has barely cooled.

I guess having been close to death a few times myself, any loss of life seems a bit more tragic at this particular moment.

Maybe I'll wake up tomorrow and be back to my regular self?

JEDIpartner
06-26-2009, 08:48 AM
See, for me, he had a bunch of undeniably catchy dippy pop songs with his brothers, one good album, one monster album, another good album, one mediocre album and two pretty stinky ones. That's really what I look at. I think Thriller put him in the big leagues, but his wackiness is what sustained his notoriety.

Still... it's really tragic. I wish that he'd had the opportunity to redeem himself in some way before he'd passed. Unfortunately, we're left with the memory of a talented individual who spent roughly the last 20 years of his life in musical mediocrity and scandal. :(

Slicker
06-26-2009, 11:56 AM
This really is a shame. Whenever someone this big dies I always try to think who out there is going to fill the shoes and then I realize that this generations music is garbage and his shoes are gonna go unfilled.

It's also a shame that he couldn't redeem himself somewhat with these London concerts.

JEDIpartner
06-26-2009, 12:27 PM
Well... the last 15 years of his life were spent putting out garbage music as well. :( That's the part that really sucks!!!

No... at this time there are no good acts out there. Most of the better acts are just pale imitations of the innovators that came before...

El Chuxter
06-26-2009, 12:58 PM
Noone, especially an "entertainer", pays out $15.3 million on an allegation like that unless he knew he was gonna be held accountable and/or jailed.

I actually see that the exact opposite of you. No parent is going to take $15.3 million if he or she thinks their kid was molested. Period. Money does not make up for that. If you believe something like that happened to your kid, you're not satisfied until the SOB responsible is either dead or in prison, being buggered 24 hours a day for the rest of his life.

In the second case, why did some father allow his son to be hugging up on him in a TV special where he talked about how loving it is to share a bed, then let it go on for months before bringing charges? That's parental negligence that makes Clapton look like Father of the Year.

I'm not some mindless Jackson fan, and I've no patience for perverts. It's just that, in this particular case, the evidence doesn't add up in my opinion. A jury (in a trial conducted in a way that wasn't a total joke and media circus, like the first OJ trial) saw and heard a lot more evidence and didn't think that was enough to prove guilt. It looks more like a reclusive lunatic being taken advantage of or being the target of some personal vendetta.

Slicker
06-26-2009, 01:58 PM
That's so true Chux. But it's just like people not putting a price on life then being happy with a multi-million dollar settlement in someones death.

Michael's life seems a lot like Fatty Arbuckles in that they both had amazing careers at a young age, were wrongly accused of a heinous thing (rape that led to a death for Arbuckle), were ostracized by the public for years, then, when things started to look up and they were making a comeback, they die before they can do so (Arbuckle died the night that he had just signed a multi-picture deal that would've brought him back into Hollywood).

Darth Duranium
06-26-2009, 02:57 PM
They obviously paid out $15.3 million because the alternatives for Jackson were clearly worse and the evidence would have nailed him... that is the ONLY reason his highest-priced dirty-tricks legal team would have settled out. To pay out is accepting professional suicide for an entertainer.

If he was innocent, why wouldn't he have fought the charges, like in the 2nd case? He had the cash, private investigators, and scumbag lawyers to do so.

Look, there's a clear pattern of disturbing behaviour here... from sham unconsumated marriages to giving kids alcohol on planes to bribing parents to stay away. He wants to spend all his time locked away with small children and casts them out once they grow up. Then there's the sick particulars of the allegations themselves... and yes, I believe the first boy who came from a wealthy respectable family. I think there are shades of truth to the other allegations as well.

The parents should share blame too... but it was Jackson who was a pedophile... other people enabled his sick behavours to happen, and allowed him to go on untreated and unrepentant. He clearly felt that he had the right to do anything to anyone, no matter how disgusting others felt it was.

Comparing Jackson to Arbuckle and Clapton is just plain ridiculous. How about Jerry Lee Lewis, Gary Glitter, or Roman Polanski? Were they unfairly treated, too?

One more thing: all this talk of "musical genius" makes me puke. While I can appreciate that he was the first person of colour to become a worldwide video star (25 years ago!), the "music" was shallow, plastic, pre-processed, and devoid of any depth of meaning whatsoever. At best, it's pop crap. "Artists" like Jackson and Madonna are the main reason that lip-syncing is so prevalent, and why artificial over-produced crap like N'Sync, Backstreet Boys, Lady Gaga, Usher, and Justin Timberlake sells so well. What happened to real music made by real human beings?

Darth Metalmute
06-26-2009, 04:31 PM
I actually see that the exact opposite of you. No parent is going to take $15.3 million if he or she thinks their kid was molested. Period. Money does not make up for that. If you believe something like that happened to your kid, you're not satisfied until the SOB responsible is either dead or in prison, being buggered 24 hours a day for the rest of his life.

Without getting involved in the "did he or didn't he do it" aspect of the argument, I have to disagree with you on this point.

The death or imprisonment of the cuplrit doesn't not bring back the innocence that the child lost. The money doesn't either, however 15.3 million will pay for alot of therapy that the child will need.

mabudonicus
06-26-2009, 05:12 PM
Ahhh Darth Titanium- one thing you must understand is that, while I agree with you that the acts you mentioned were a stepping stone to the current state of the pop-music scene, the innovations being made in the recording scene of the early 80's are pretty huge overall- the ability to get a clean, tight live-style sound down without it being a punchy mess was practically perfected analog-wise in the late 70's earlys 80's

Jackson wasn't the engineer besides, but the beautiful production on most of his "top"
work is NOT what led to the current dismal state of the music business- a poorp workman blaming the tools or something like that ;)
:beard:Iso&Baws x topes

SOyes

DarthQuack
06-26-2009, 05:13 PM
1. This probably belongs in the Cell now if this carp is going to keep up.

2. Odds are you're probably a few years younger than the majority of those who aren't stomping on his grave.

Darth Duranium
06-26-2009, 07:04 PM
No... not the Pit!!! :sur: No, not.... the Comfy Chair!

Well, there's loads of material on Smoking Gun... so I'd suggest that anyone can go there and judge the evidence for themselves. Don't believe the hype and see for yourself.

Actually, I used to like the Jackson 5 and even the Thriller video... a guilty pleasure, back in the day... but what he became is unacceptable, to me at least. It taints everything he ever did... I can't listen to any of it anymore. I know I'm not alone in this.

Mab, recording technology and production was pretty good by the early 70's (i.e. Pink Floyd, James Brown, Earth Wind and Fire) and most of Jackson's solo stuff was either syrupy ballads or recycled BeeGees/Chic-style disco-funk, IMO.

As a solo artist, his contribution to music as an innovator is hugely overstated but his videos, dancing, and stagecraft were outstanding. As a unique cultural phenomenon that spread synthpop around the planet, his persona's success and eventual downfall is a sad and bizarre epic. A shame he never got treatment.

This is the only clean Chris Rock quote I could find::D
"Remember when we was young, everybody used to have these arguments about who's better, Michael Jackson or Prince? Prince won!"

Beast
06-26-2009, 07:14 PM
Prince is batcrap insane as well. Just ask Kevin Smith.

Mad Slanted Powers
06-26-2009, 07:25 PM
Prince is batcrap insane as well. Just ask Kevin Smith.
I wonder if he's anything like how he is portrayed by Fred Armisen in those SNL sketches.

Darth Duranium
06-26-2009, 11:10 PM
Prince is batcrap insane as well. Just ask Kevin Smith.

So true, so true... batcrap insane is very apt.

I just watched Kevin Smith's Prince videos on Youtube... never saw them before... funny stuff! Thanks for the info, Beast.

Well, at least he likes 18+ chicks.lol

Maradona
06-27-2009, 02:10 AM
Comparing Jackson to Arbuckle and Clapton is just plain ridiculous. How about Jerry Lee Lewis, Gary Glitter, or Roman Polanski? Were they unfairly treated, too?


But does the fact that Polanski slept with an underage girl mean that Rosemary's Baby is not a good film? Or that Jerry Lee Lewis can't play piano well? You can equate a person's behavior with all forms of abnormalcy, degeneracy, and criminality, but their past accomplishments remain intact.

Kidhuman
06-27-2009, 10:32 AM
Meh, dont really care

Tycho
06-27-2009, 12:36 PM
So far, I've really liked everything Darth Titanium has to say in this thread.

I can't add anything to it right now, but I'm following this discussion along.

DarthBrandon
06-27-2009, 08:19 PM
There's no denying his talent as an entertainer 25 years ago but his predilection for young boys overshadowed any legacy he had left, IMO.

To lionize him now that he's dead seems pretty disingenuous to me, considering the negative media attention he's received due to his sickening tastes and bizarre narcissistic (Wacko Jacko) behaviours... but I expect that's what's coming up...

Nicely said, let's all carry on with our lives & forget this nut job.:thumbsup:

bobafrett
06-27-2009, 10:25 PM
I'm thinking of sueing his estate because he once looked at a picture of me with bad intentions in his eyes.

Blue2th
06-28-2009, 12:29 AM
I hate to be such a fun sucker, but IMO it's much sadder to see the fresh faces that have died serving our country during the "moments of silence while we honor the men and women that have died as their names and faces become available" on PBS just tears me up. Sorry but kids still teenagers or barely out of their teens who never enjoyed the excesses he had, don't get as many tears.
Not one tear for MJ. Plenty of other tragic things to save them for.

What's wrong with people?

Darth Duranium
06-28-2009, 07:30 PM
I hate to be such a fun sucker, but IMO it's much sadder to see the fresh faces that have died serving our country during the "moments of silence while we honor the men and women that have died as their names and faces become available" on PBS just tears me up. Sorry but kids still teenagers or barely out of their teens who never enjoyed the excesses he had, don't get as many tears.
Not one tear for MJ. Plenty of other tragic things to save them for.

What's wrong with people?

I couldn't agree more.

Right on cue, Blue:

Michael Jackson's death sparks bus brawl

Fri Jun 26, 10:21 PM

MIAMI (Reuters) - A fight broke out on a Florida bus when news of Michael Jackson's death sparked debate over whether he should be remembered as a great musical talent, and one passenger was charged with assault, police said on Friday.

The bus was moving through the city of North Lauderdale on Thursday when passenger James Kiernan received a text message about Jackson's death on his cell phone, and he read it aloud on the bus, the Broward County Sheriff's Department said.

The unidentified bus driver opined that "Michael Jackson should have been in jail long ago," prompting Kiernan, 60, to retort that "the world just lost a great musical talent," the police report said.

It said the last remark enraged another passenger, Henry Wideman, who started a swearing match with Kiernan, then pulled out a knife and chased Kiernan down the aisle with it.

The driver called his dispatcher and pulled over near a convenience store to wait for sheriff's deputies, who arrested Wideman, 54. He remained in jail on Friday on a charge of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon.



But does the fact that Polanski slept with an underage girl mean that Rosemary's Baby is not a good film? Or that Jerry Lee Lewis can't play piano well? You can equate a person's behavior with all forms of abnormalcy, degeneracy, and criminality, but their past accomplishments remain intact.



If a celebrity falls in a cesspool and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

Look at what (rightfully) happened to Polanski's, Lewis', and Jackson's careers. And Rosemary's Baby (the film) was a collaborative affair, like most films... good actors and a great book by Ira Levin were as important to its success as Polanski.

Hitler's paintings, Charlie Manson's music, the sports records of OJ Simpson, Gary Glitter's hits, or even Pee Wee's Playhouse... not what they're remembered for. I can think of a million other examples where people's choices destroyed their formerly good names and made their earlier life's work worthless.

Clearly, the redemption of one's legacy depends on the nature of the offence and whether society feels that justice has been served.

2-1B
06-28-2009, 09:49 PM
Hitler's paintings, Charlie Manson's music, the sports records of OJ Simpson, Gary Glitter's hits, or even Pee Wee's Playhouse... not what they're remembered for. I can think of a million other examples where people's choices destroyed their formerly good names and made their earlier life's work worthless.


Don't forget Brett Favre, too.

Tycho
06-28-2009, 10:33 PM
Michael Vick will never get a guest spot with Snoopy, that's for sure.

Blue2th
06-28-2009, 10:35 PM
At least Pee Wee just got caught choking the chicken, peeling the chili, tally whackin' as it were. lol

Tycho
06-28-2009, 11:00 PM
At least Pee Wee just got caught choking the chicken, peeling the chili, tally whackin' as it were. lol

So did George Michael.

"Before this river, there comes an ocean..." (lyrics to Faith)

Jedi_Master_Guyute
06-28-2009, 11:42 PM
also, keep this thread on topic. Thanks

Maradona
06-29-2009, 02:51 AM
DT, don't misunderstand my intention here. I'm far from being an apologist or even a fan of Jackson and definitely not of Hitler or Manson, mass murderers who out of respect for their victims should not be cited lightly, much less to illustrate a point to a toy collector on a toy collecting website. My comment centered solely on saying history exists and cannot be erased by the later actions of those who created it. OJ sadly got away with bloody murder, but that does not change the scores of any games he played in.


I can think of a million other examples where people's choices destroyed their formerly good names and made their earlier life's work worthless.

Worthless. Really? Using this rationale, The Portrait of Dorian Gray is a worthless novel because Oscar Wilde went to jail. Kurt Cobain's music (which I find often overrated) is worthless because he committed suicide? Jimi Hendrix's guitar playing is worthless because he was a drug user and died because of it? Jim Morrison, Keith Moon, John Bonham, Brian Jones all had what many would consider morally reprehensible behaviors that ultimately destroyed their lives, but is their music, though made collaboratively, worthless? Is The Catcher in the Rye is worthless because JD Salinger had an affair with with a teen age girl while in his 50s? Are Chaplin's films are worthless because he had a 36 year age difference with his last wife whom he married while she was a teen?

I don't agree with what any of them did and their legacies are inextricably linked to their actions, but regardless of what they are remembered for, I cannot discredit and certainly not erase the work they created prior to.

JEDIpartner
06-29-2009, 12:04 PM
At least Pee Wee just got caught choking the chicken, peeling the chili, tally whackin' as it were. lol

Bubbling the chimp. :o

Darth Duranium
06-30-2009, 07:49 PM
Well, like I said above, Maradona:
Clearly, the redemption of one's legacy depends on the nature of the offence and whether society feels that justice has been served.

I would never suggest erasing anything... people should judge for themselves.

Wilde was judged and did time for his offences... apparently, the society in which he lived felt he had paid enough for his crimes... after jail, a penniless and wretched death in exile did the trick.

JD Salinger dated an 18 year old woman for one year... so what? Chaplin was made a British Knight late in life... so I guess he stayed within the laws of his times, though marrying 16 year-olds is pretty gross indeed.

OJ's football scores didn't change but he's the posterboy for largely unpunished murderers with ruined legacies. Does anyone ever talk about his football records anymore? They're now a footnote.

The musicians you cited are remembered as much for their excesses as their talents... especially the over-rated Cobain, as you say... but they're guilty of self-destruction, not an offense against someone's children. A totally different deal...

Watching "The Genius" touch his crotch and wriggle around on TV going "Wahhhhh" is completely worthless... to me, at least.

I guess the early Jackson 5 stuff should be seen differently as Jackson was a kid himself back then... but to my gut, it doesn't matter. Buh-bye.

preacher
07-02-2009, 01:43 PM
Karma is a *****.

If you behave abnormally it can and will catch up with you in the end. Its natural for people to side with a winner. Its very hard to build a reputation and whether its fair or not you have to work very hard not to mistep and lose a good reputation. When you are recognized a positive influence people know the work that goes into it.

Even giving the impression you are a pedophile is detrimental. Whether Michael had relations with young children or not is quite beside the point. His tendencies to associate with younger people were just creepy and people pushed him away. He became a bit of a joke and it doesn't matter how good his early artistry may have been he lost value. Years from now, when his odd behavior is mostly forgotten maybe future generations will rediscover his innovation. Except he also went from looking normal to looking like a manequin. Hard to explain why he felt compelled to butcher himself. A picture is worth a thousand words. And pictures of him black one year and looking like Data from Star Trek the next can only be explained one way. He had major problems.

My take is, he was doomed from the start. An abusive father planted those seeds and he never was given the chance to deal with his issues in a healthy way. But ultimately he could've chosen to. Now because of him childrens' innocence were taken. It wasn't proven but people aren't as stupid as the media would hope. They can connect the dots. And to take from the Dorian Grey analogy the dots reveal a very ugly picture.

Old Fossil
07-02-2009, 01:46 PM
"Judge not, lest ye be judged."

:sleeping:

Maradona
07-02-2009, 02:12 PM
If you behave abnormally it can and will catch up with you in the end.

I agree. I was listening to the John and Ken radio program (conservative talk keeps me from falling asleep while driving by making me angry) yesterday that was scary in its definition of normality. "A grown man," I'm paraphrasing, "should not be the one in the neighborhood with the most toys" and "a grown man does not watch cartoons." This made me look at how my behaviors as a toy collector might be perceived (regular trips to the toy store, near encyclopedic knowledge of past toy lines and animated programs, etc). My gut reaction was that these guys were making blanket generalizations. I find what I do to be perfectly normal. But to others, men in their 30s patrolling toy stores, knowing who the good and bad employees are in most of them, knowing who the scalpers in the area are, keeping tabs on toy listings on ebay, anxiously awaiting conventions, knowing what's playing on the cartoon channels, all these might seem to be decidedly abnormal.

El Chuxter
07-02-2009, 02:22 PM
That's odd, since it's finally considered more or less acceptable in most circles for adults to admit to watching cartoons. Truth is, they've always watched them, just now they don't get funny looks for admitting it. From most people, that is.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
07-02-2009, 05:55 PM
Conservative radio talk show hosts voicing conservative, backwards viewpoints? Shocking! :p

After seeing so much of him on TV lately, it really does seem like all of his problems link back to his father and being pushed into stardom so young. He acted like a child, possibly doing things that might be considered "naughty" when children do them but just "weird" when an adult does them around children (like sneaking alcohol or looking at porn, as some of the charges apparently were). He clearly had self-esteem issues that manifested in him changing his appearance so drastically. You could tell he had a nose job while he was still black, and then the skin color change likely led to him wanting to have more "white" features to match the skin but overdoing it. I dunno. If he had had a more normal childhood, I believe he would have ended up more normal, and hopefully he still would have had the same musical output.

preacher
07-02-2009, 08:25 PM
I agree. I was listening to the John and Ken radio program (conservative talk keeps me from falling asleep while driving by making me angry) yesterday that was scary in its definition of normality. "A grown man," I'm paraphrasing, "should not be the one in the neighborhood with the most toys" and "a grown man does not watch cartoons." This made me look at how my behaviors as a toy collector might be perceived (regular trips to the toy store, near encyclopedic knowledge of past toy lines and animated programs, etc). My gut reaction was that these guys were making blanket generalizations. I find what I do to be perfectly normal. But to others, men in their 30s patrolling toy stores, knowing who the good and bad employees are in most of them, knowing who the scalpers in the area are, keeping tabs on toy listings on ebay, anxiously awaiting conventions, knowing what's playing on the cartoon channels, all these might seem to be decidedly abnormal.

I'm guessing you don't have dozens of children living with you at once. Never befriended a young McCullny Culkin. Nor do you have a mansion named Neverland. And if you have kids I'm betting you have never dangled one upside down over a balcony. Or if you don't have children you still would never dreaming of doing that. Collecting toys and watching cartoons is nowhere close to the exploitation of kids. And regardless if you think he sexually abused them or not, his entire modus operandi, such as building an amusement on his private property, was meant as an attractor for children.

And as far as passing judgement, you're damn right I am! The dude was a freak and he damaged children. Had he gone to prison you can bet there would've been reprisal. Karma caught up to him though. I appreciate his art, but as far as he is concerned, the world will be better off with him as a role model for future generations.

Mad Slanted Powers
07-02-2009, 08:32 PM
And as far as passing judgement, you're damn right I am! The dude was a freak and he damaged children.What children has he damaged, though? How do we know that all these claims aren't just people trying to extort money from him? Because he was weird and admits to some things most would consider inappropriate, people believe that he molested or raped the kids.

DarthQuack
07-02-2009, 09:39 PM
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/showbiz/2009/07/02/vo.aeg.jackson.rehearsal.cnn

Final rehearsal....just 2 days before he passed....:cry:

He looked pretty good to me.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
07-02-2009, 10:04 PM
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/showbiz/2009/07/02/vo.aeg.jackson.rehearsal.cnn

Final rehearsal....just 2 days before he passed....:cry:

He looked pretty good to me.
Agreed. He looked just like he did nearly 20 years ago, which is a lot better than he looked, say, seven years ago or so (when he had the super-womanly hair . . . yikes). Hopefully they'll release more video from the rehearsal. He looked like he was having a great time.

Maradona
07-02-2009, 10:07 PM
Collecting toys and watching cartoons is nowhere close to the exploitation of kids.

No, it is not. It can be perfectly healthy and puts money into the economy. My comment is that to the eyes of others it can seem abnormal. Normality is constructed by society based on what the majority of people do.

And no, I have never befriended McCauley Culkin.

Reading the first paragraph of your comment again made me think of the bizarre parallels between Jackson and Bruce Wayne: mansion with toys, dangling an underage kid out of balcony (albeit to fight crime), reclusive lifestyle, an identity the public cannot understand.

Darth Duranium
07-03-2009, 12:44 AM
Agreed on all points, Preacher.

Never thought I’d find myself typing that last sentence, being an atheist and all.:twisted:

He never chose to get treatment… even for the things he admitted to. They were all justifiable and hunky-dory by him.

It’s weird… seems some people have difficulty in differentiating between toy collecting, cartoon-watching, overdosing on drugs, and child exploitation as "crimes". Smells like minimizing, rationalizing, and lionizing to me…

Comparing Jackson to Bruce Wayne is just beyond bizarre, IMO. Whoa.


How do we know that all these claims aren't just people trying to extort money from him? Because he was weird and admits to some things most would consider inappropriate, people believe that he molested or raped the kids.

If it walks like a duck…
What points to his innocence? That he’s a good dancer with tape stuck to his fingers? I just don’t see a single thing that points to a healthy human being that I’d let anywhere near a kid. “Inappropriate” behaviour doesn’t cover it.

If it were true then we would see lawsuits and charges of this kind against celebrities all the time, especially in uber-litigious America.

Jackson paid out $15.3 million… an acceptance of professional suicide for an entertainer. Why? For you fans, how do his statements about sleeping with children jibe with watching his new lip-sync…er, "live" concert video?

His father’s pitch for a new record company during a memorial for Jackson was truly moving. The apple probably doesn’t fall far from the tree. A universe of one… times two.

He made “his” genetically-improbable Aryan children wear burqas in public. Taliban children don't even have to do that. Then there was the chimp. And the kiddie-attractor theme park, as Preacher put it. “Jesus Juice” on airplanes. And a million other things that shows that he clearly has no insight into his sickness and drug-addled excesses. He even denied having had plastic surgery on his face.

He was totally out of touch with humanity and fit the classic profile of a sociopath to a T.


He looked pretty good to me.

Hate to disagree with another Darth but….

DarthQuack, if it moonwalks like a duck…

El Chuxter
07-03-2009, 01:20 AM
So if anyone has thought all along he was likely innocent of the charges and was a talented musician, they're not allowed to say that now or it's lionization? I don't have a problem with you disagreeing with me, since only Jackson and his accusers know with 100% certainty what happened and everyone else has to judge for themselves based on what is reported by the news media, but you honestly seem like you think everyone who thinks he wasn't a rabid child molester constantly raping little boys is completely out of their gourd.

One correction to your post: it's been confirmed within the past week that his kids were actually out in public unmasked quite a bit. Just not with him. They went out with other family members and Jackson's staff often, but no one seemed to put two and two together. I agree it was a misguided gesture at best, and insane at worst, but apparently he made them wear masks when with him so that they wouldn't be targets for the papparazzi when they weren't with him.

2-1B
07-03-2009, 12:44 PM
I appreciate his art, but as far as he is concerned, the world will be better off with him as a role model for future generations.

That's a very nice comment, I'm sure he would appreciate your endorsement of him as a future role model. :)

preacher
07-03-2009, 02:32 PM
That's a very nice comment, I'm sure he would appreciate your endorsement of him as a future role model. :)

Freudian slip. I meant "without" and typed "with". Clearly, my argument is that I would never let my kids within fifty feet of the man much less stay at Neverland.

They can and have listened to "Beat It" and "Thriller" and appreciate his art. Its fun music. And I don't stand in the way of exploring other music. Britney Spears was topic of discussion last year in these forums. And I more or less said the same sorts of things about her. To my surprise she has arisen like a phoenix more popular than she ever has been. My kids like the music. I detest it.

I always make sure they understand that these superstars are influential to the music industry, but it is job. They are no different and no more special than any one else. Like any other stranger just because they can be charming that does not make them your friend. And some of them, even with their successes are dangerous.

2-1B
07-03-2009, 03:55 PM
Freudian slip. I meant "without" and typed "with".

I know, I just thought we could use a little levity. lol

Lord Malakite
07-04-2009, 05:31 AM
Well, I've found the link to Michael Jackson's stuff that is/was going to be auctioned off (http://www.liveauctioneers.com/catalog/18624). This item (http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/6294954) from the auction just jumped right out at me. :thumbsup:

Mad Slanted Powers
07-04-2009, 10:06 AM
Oh, and right next to that was Bruce Lee, E.T., Marilyn Monroe, and Elvis.

Bel-Cam Jos
07-06-2009, 06:19 PM
With 1.2 million requests worldwide for tickets to an arena that holds just under 20K, and an expected (read: it'll be more) 700K other gatherers around Staples Center, tomorrow's going to be a weird time to be around LA (and I'm 50-60 miles away from that).

Maradona
07-06-2009, 07:39 PM
With 1.2 million requests worldwide for tickets to an arena that holds just under 20K, and an expected (read: it'll be more) 700K other gatherers around Staples Center, tomorrow's going to be a weird time to be around LA (and I'm 50-60 miles away from that).

I live in the vicinity of Dodger Stadium, where the tickets are being distributed, and it was nightmarish earlier. When I attended Anime Expo this weekend (held at the LA Convention Center next to Staples Center), I could not help but notice the sea of news vans from around the nation parked wherever there was space.

Bel-Cam Jos
07-07-2009, 04:35 PM
I ended up watching the whole thing; the benefit of not being at work. It was a nice blend of show and memorial. Touching at some times, slightly humorous at others, and inspiring at others.

Then, listening to talk radio after, some hosts were blasting it as a waste of taxpayers' money. Have we healed the world, then? Made that change? :(

Darth Metalmute
07-07-2009, 04:39 PM
I only caught the Stevie Wonder song and appearences of Kobe and Magic.
I realize that Magic was in one of his music videos but why was Kobe there?

The only reason I could come up with is that he lives at the Staples Center now because his wife threw him out after the whole Colorado thing.

DarthBrandon
07-07-2009, 05:49 PM
Meh, I can't wait until this is all over.

Mad Slanted Powers
07-07-2009, 06:32 PM
I went out to my car at lunch as I usually do to listen to a little bit of Rush Limbaugh, and the memorial was on. So I turned over to the liberal talk station for a few minutes and Thom Hartmann was talking to Bill Ayers about biased testing. Then I turned back to the memorial and heard the end of Magic Johnson's speech.

Maradona
07-07-2009, 07:39 PM
I saw much of the ceremony while in a medical waiting room. The powerful performance by Stevie Wonder was the highlight for me.

Darth Duranium
07-07-2009, 07:47 PM
Meh, I can't wait until this is all over.

Couldn't agree more, DB.:frus:

How about squeezing in some of these guys during the wall-to-wall LaToya and Jermaine coverage?

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2004/oef.casualties/


I was also wondering if we were gonna see any of Janet's piercings during the eulogy...

Blue2th
07-07-2009, 10:20 PM
Couldn't agree more, DB.:frus:

How about squeezing in some of these guys during the wall-to-wall LaToya and Jermaine coverage?

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2004/oef.casualties/


I was also wondering if we were gonna see any of Janet's piercings during the eulogy...

Good site. You get info about other countries losses too. :cry:

I watched a little bit today.
I was kinda hoping for a wardrobe malfunction myself.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
07-08-2009, 01:43 AM
I watched some of it off and on. The only really sad part was his daughter at the end.

But yeah, now that the funeral's done, let's all get on with it, shall we?

Slicker
07-08-2009, 09:29 AM
Couldn't agree more, DB.:frus:

How about squeezing in some of these guys during the wall-to-wall LaToya and Jermaine coverage?

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2004/oef.casualties/


And much like those soldiers Michael was a brother/father/uncle/son etc. I'll just have to keep an eye on the obituary's for a relative of yours to die and then, while you're mourning, go up to you and tell you that they didn't matter anyways so don't bother and then proceed to bring up all of there bad points.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
07-08-2009, 09:42 AM
And much like those soldiers Michael was a brother/father/uncle/son etc. I'll just have to keep an eye on the obituary's for a relative of yours to die and then, while you're mourning, go up to you and tell you that they didn't matter anyways so don't bother and then proceed to bring up all of their bad points.

Exactly. Thank you, Slicker. Very well put. I too was getting quite irritated with all the off topic moaning and whatnot going on here. His death was a big news story, if folks didn't want to watch it, they didn't have to. End of story.

Michael was a terrific dancer, singer, and his contributions to music were limitless. He will be missed.

Blue2th
07-08-2009, 10:18 AM
Yeah, talented, he will be missed, his music, death and life matters, but
I think the one "off topic" point is relevant when you have a moment of silence in the halls of congress for him.
It just seemed awkward and out of place when I watched that on CSPAN the other day (who watches CSPAN :rolleyes:) when other things happening everyday that don't get the same treatment are going on.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
07-08-2009, 11:02 AM
Yeah, talented, he will be missed, his music, death and life matters, but
I think the one "off topic" point is relevant when you have a moment of silence in the halls of congress for him.
It just seemed awkward and out of place when I watched that on CSPAN the other day (who watches CSPAN :rolleyes:) when other things happening everyday that don't get the same treatment are going on.

I do agree that is pretty far, but you're acting like it's his own fault that his death is getting a huge reaction. And frankly, i think folks were getting tired of the regular crap that's going on. Many Americans are tired of the Iraq war, nuclear threats, the recession, etc, etc. And his death made them remember what a fantastic artist he was and they appreciated the music and memories he gave them. Hence the amount of coverage.

Kidhuman
07-08-2009, 11:38 AM
I only caught the Stevie Wonder song and appearences of Kobe and Magic.
I realize that Magic was in one of his music videos but why was Kobe there?

The only reason I could come up with is that he lives at the Staples Center now because his wife threw him out after the whole Colorado thing.

Kobe was there only because its LA and the Staples center.



Or they wanted to put 2 should be convicts together.

Blue2th
07-08-2009, 11:45 AM
I do agree that is pretty far, but you're acting like it's his own fault that his death is getting a huge reaction. And frankly, i think folks were getting tired of the regular crap that's going on. Many Americans are tired of the Iraq war, nuclear threats, the recession, etc, etc. And his death made them remember what a fantastic artist he was and they appreciated the music and memories he gave them. Hence the amount of coverage.
No it's not his fault his death gets so much reaction. He was a talented but tragic figure. I'm sure some of us can relate to him never wanting to grow up. He collected toys, we collect toys.
And yes we get tired of reality and are insulated from it sometimes. He lived in lala land, and that is appealing to some who want something bigger than themselves to attach to.
It's a contradiction that someone who had it all lived such a tortured life, and we would like to understand that too.

Many memories were made by his music. Everyone has a moment when they first hear a song, where they were what they were doing. This makes him immortal in a sense, because of the gift of his music will continue to do that.

So yeah, I understand the priorities of the majority of people, I just think it gets misplaced in unreality, but that's entertainment in death as well as life.
Not much you can do about it.

Kidhuman
07-08-2009, 12:03 PM
He lived in lala land,



Actually, Neverland

Blue2th
07-08-2009, 12:16 PM
Actually, Neverland

Whoops yeah. lol

It's suprising, well maybe not, how much Peter Pan and Disney stuff he has up for auction on that previous link.

Of course he got to buy life size Star Wars action figures unlike most of us. :ermm:

Darth Duranium
07-08-2009, 01:16 PM
And much like those soldiers Michael was a brother/father/uncle/son etc. I'll just have to keep an eye on the obituary's for a relative of yours to die and then, while you're mourning, go up to you and tell you that they didn't matter anyways so don't bother and then proceed to bring up all of there bad points.

Clearly, you have a great deal of trouble discerning between true heroes dying to serve their nations overseas in a war setting... and an overdosed pedo has-been "entertainer".

I'm sorry... didn't realise you were related to Jackson... you're taking it very hard and getting personal. I'll be more sensitive to your delicate feelings toward Michael next time. Don't forget to buy the commemorative video, BTW.

Obviously, the "news media" has the same problem prioritizing things.... they would rather behave like Entertainment Tonight or the Enquirer than responsible news organisations. It was a disgrace.

El Chuxter
07-08-2009, 01:42 PM
Jesus Christ, man, we get it. You don't like him and think he's a pedophile. Your attacking everyone who disagrees with you even a bit got old a week ago. Fact is, a man died. Unlike someone like Anna Nicole Smith, who was famous simply for being famous, Jackson was a very successful musician and (like it or not) philanthropist who had an awful lot of influence on popular culture over the past few decades. I won't argue that the media coverage is overboard. We can agree on that. But it is news. Everyone in the world who thought the guy was maligned and is saddened, shocked, or merely just surprised isn't a moron because you don't think the same way.

If you'd even paid attention to anything Slicker has ever said, he's not particularly a fan of Michael Jackson. And he's not attacking US military casualties (nor is anyone else here). He's one of the few people on this board who's currently overseas in the US military, not in a combat zone, but in what's now a pretty contentious area of the world. He doesn't need me to fight his battles here, but, dammit, I'm not going to stand for it.

I said before, I don't have a problem at all with civil disagreement, but you crossed the line into personal attacks a while back and you seem quite intent to remain there.

Darth Duranium
07-08-2009, 02:23 PM
Your attacking everyone who disagrees with you even a bit got old a week ago....Everyone in the world who thought the guy was maligned and is saddened, shocked, or merely just surprised isn't a moron because you don't think the same way....I said before, I don't have a problem at all with civil disagreement, but you crossed the line into personal attacks a while back and you seem quite intent to remain there.

Speaking of personal attacks, perhaps your "buddy" should leave my relatives out of it, then. And where did I get personal? I didn't single anyone out until I responded to this last post. I've "attacked" noone and certainly didn't call anyone a "moron". So stop being a baby and argue your case on its merits.

I notice that the "fans" would rather attack me than defend Jackson on most of the points I brought up...

Slicker
07-08-2009, 02:34 PM
And he's not attacking US military casualties (nor is anyone else here). He's one of the few people on this board who's currently overseas in the US military, not in a combat zone, but in what's now a pretty contentious area of the world. He doesn't need me to fight his battles here, but, dammit, I'm not going to stand for it.

I wouldn't expect someone that goes by what the media says and takes it at face value to do something as in depth as read someones user profile...


Speaking of personal attacks, perhaps your "buddy" should leave my relatives out of it, then. And where did I get personal? I didn't single anyone out until I responded to this last post. I've "attacked" noone and certainly didn't call anyone a "moron". So stop being a baby and argue your case on its merits.

It's obvious you don't like it when the tables are turned. This is a classic case of "don't dish it out if you can't take it".

Darth Duranium
07-08-2009, 02:52 PM
I notice that the "fans" would rather attack me than defend Jackson on most of the points I brought up...

Sure I can dish it out and take it too... especially when arguing with people who haven't got a leg to stand on... but this forum's supposed to be a place where opinions are discussed in a civilised way.

Stick to the issues and I'll continue to expose your beliefs as groundless, shallow, logic-free, and uninformed... without getting personal.

That's the real issue here.

Tycho
07-08-2009, 03:35 PM
Wow. This thread has gotten contentious. I haven't been paying attention for a while because Michael Jackson just doesn't interest me that much and the news about him spins right by me whenever it's on a TV in the gym, or wherever I'm nearby. It just simply doesn't grab me.

But I don't like to see all of you guys fighting. I'm friends with the people this is going on between, but I'm not taking sides - just advising you guys to cool off. Maybe you aren't as serious as this is reading, but it is reading pretty hostile.

Meanwhile, Michael Jackson makes me feel uncomfortable because of his suspicious behavior, quirks, and strange appearances and preferences. That's all I know, as I don't know guilt or innocense about anything to do with him, but I was not one of the people who was particularly entertained by Jackson. I'm into hard rock, metal music and am learning to play guitar. I can't sing and I don't dance. I prefer Geoff Tate's singing (Queensryche) or James Hetfield's (Metallica) and I don't watch dancers really (unless girls getting naked to hard rock music counts). However, I think it's sad when anyone passes so young and I would have liked it if Michael had the opportunity to progress further with his life as long as he was enjoying it and living in a manner that was honorable and not threatening society.

That's all I really have to say about this, except (again) I'll repeat that I don't like to see friends fighting over something as trivial (in my opinion) as this.

mabudonicus
07-08-2009, 04:01 PM
how far off-topic does this have to get before it gets locked or thrown in the 'Pit??

Darth Titanium, you are now officially in the realm of trolling and it's not going to get you far on this forum. Slick is a personal friend of several folks on this board, me included, and while I don't see eye-to-eye on probably a horde of political issues (and his taste in music is pedestrian ;)) I can't recall ever disrepecting him, nor him disrespecting me, nor either of us trying to prove that one or the others beliefs were "groundless, shallow, logic-free, and uninformed."...

And as for you saying you will somehow PROVE a persons beliefs to be same without getting "personal" when the issue at hand is a matter of PERSONAL OPINION is beyond me
:beard: Iso&Baws&topes
Smart yourself up, yer makin Canucks look bad Bub

Blue2th
07-08-2009, 04:31 PM
"We are the werld, we are the children"

"it's a choice we're making" :cheeky:

Bel-Cam Jos
07-08-2009, 05:46 PM
Not too be too much of a nitpicker, but the thread's title is "Rest in Peace." Maybe somebody should open a more moral or politicized MJ thread in the 'Pit, and not automatically send this one to the RP netherworld.

I'm wondering how long it will take for the MJ Memorial DVD or CD to come out. Some of the performances there were very good, and I wouldn't mind owning a copy.

Beast
07-08-2009, 06:39 PM
I'm wondering how long it will take for the MJ Memorial DVD or CD to come out. Some of the performances there were very good, and I wouldn't mind owning a copy.
Well, apperantly his final full rehersal was filmed with Hi-Definition cameras.

And there's some talk of putting that out at some point. I'd probably buy it.

I haven't liked a lot of his recent work, but he's done some amazing stuff.

Blue2th
07-08-2009, 06:49 PM
Not too be too much of a nitpicker, but the thread's title is "Rest in Peace."

I thought it was RIP? as in rip. :cheeky:

Darth Duranium
07-10-2009, 01:58 PM
I thought it was RIP? as in rip. :cheeky:

Me, too. :shocked:

Never mind.

Mad Slanted Powers
07-10-2009, 02:43 PM
She's dead too, so she isn't around to say that anymore.

pbarnard
07-10-2009, 04:04 PM
Not too be too much of a nitpicker, but the thread's title is "Rest in Peace." Maybe somebody should open a more moral or politicized MJ thread in the 'Pit, and not automatically send this one to the RP netherworld.

I'm wondering how long it will take for the MJ Memorial DVD or CD to come out. Some of the performances there were very good, and I wouldn't mind owning a copy.

The MJ DVD of the Line in Bucharest (Romania) is on EXTREMELY LONG WAIT at Netflix.

2-1B
07-19-2009, 10:29 PM
I was looking at the "raid" photos of the messy rooms the other day and noticed a few SW items.

Slicker
07-20-2009, 10:40 AM
Did anyone else see the just released video of Michael's hair catching on fire? I thought it was a little bit funny.

Blue2th
07-20-2009, 11:31 AM
Saw that. I thought it was just a superficial burn till I saw that red bald spot on his head..ouch!

There used to be tacky jokes about the Ignited _ Fund, but I guess it was a little more serious than we thought. Hence the wig.

Wonder if Pepsi had to pay booku bucks for that incident?

Jedi_Master_Guyute
07-20-2009, 01:33 PM
Saw that. I thought it was just a superficial burn till I saw that red bald spot on his head..ouch!

There used to be tacky jokes about the Ignited _ Fund, but I guess it was a little more serious than we thought. Hence the wig.

Wonder if Pepsi had to pay booku bucks for that incident?

I believe they gave him like 1.2 million and he gave it to charity.

Blue2th
08-24-2009, 05:27 PM
Guess they ruled it a Homicide today.

TeeEye7
08-25-2009, 03:24 AM
I'll be interested to see under which section of the California Penal Code they made that ruling.

DarthBrandon
08-25-2009, 05:00 PM
I'll be interested to see under which section of the California Penal Code they made that ruling.

It's called the family needs some justice so lets find us a scapegoat clause.

TeeEye7
08-26-2009, 03:01 AM
It's called the family needs some justice so lets find us a scapegoat clause.

Ah, yes! They've used the Hollywood, California Penal Code! I should have known!

Good call, DB! :thumbsup:

Blue2th
08-26-2009, 07:57 AM
Guess it still fits as a "homicide" if he died at the hands of another person whether intentional, accident, or negligence.
They were saying that the doctor was administering the drugs, but they were prescribed by another doctor in Germany.
Still unidentified man who called 911 who was there.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
08-26-2009, 11:45 AM
from what I read, it was nearly an hour or so from when the doctor found Jackson to when he called 911. That's really awful.

Blue2th
08-26-2009, 12:30 PM
from what I read, it was nearly an hour or so from when the doctor found Jackson to when he called 911. That's really awful.

It's like he wanted to save face instead of a life. He didn't save either.