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View Full Version : Is POTF2 "Vintage?"



Old Fossil
10-01-2009, 08:38 PM
So it's been, what, going on 15 years now since the launch of the POTF2 line? In my meanderings about Ebay I often see figures from that line, all the way up to (but not usually including) Ep.I, referred to as "vintage." I always scoff a little, but I am beginning to wonder if the sellers have a point.

In 1995, it had been a decade since the POTF line ended. And in 1995 the POTF line was considered part of the "true" Vintage line, right? And here we are, some 10 years since POTF2 was winding down. Is it time to begin including the POTF2, neo-Kenner stuff "vintage?"

It's all semantics, I know, but it's been bugging me a little.

LusiferSam
10-01-2009, 10:51 PM
The simple answer is no, POTF2 is not 'vintage' and never will be. It's the same reason GI JOE RAH can never vintage or with G1 Transformers. The names refers to well defined groups of toys.

Any e-Bay seller that list POTF2 as 'vintage' is idiot, lier, or cheat.

indyjones1981
10-01-2009, 11:31 PM
The simple answer is no, POTF2 is not 'vintage' and never will be. It's the same reason GI JOE RAH can never vintage or with G1 Transformers. The names refers to well defined groups of toys.

Any e-Bay seller that list POTF2 as 'vintage' is idiot, lier, or cheat.

POTF2 is not vintage. The original Kenner Star Wars line from 1978-1985 is the vintage line. End of debate!

El Chuxter
10-01-2009, 11:48 PM
Ask again when they finally get around to updating Uncle Owen, Aunt Beru, and Dr Evazan.

JediTricks
10-02-2009, 02:43 AM
Old? Yes. Vintage? No. :p

DarkArtist
10-02-2009, 07:55 AM
I think alot of sellers throw the term vintage around because they know they will attract people to their merchandise and perhaps lore a naive person to buying something labeled vintage for Big $$$$ when the figure itself is worth more like $.

I can remember going to shows in the past where people where buying the original POTF He-Man Luke thinking it was the 1977 Luke and the seller was like telling them that the figure was worth $$$$. the buyer was an uneducated mother looking to buy a Luke Skywalker for her son. she was about to pay $50 for the Luke and i stopped her and told her that the figure is not an original that it was only a few years old and that the price was insane. I told her there was a TRU around the corner that just unpacked a ton of new figures including at the time the "new VOTC" line of toys and that for the $50 she was willing to drop on one figure she couold get 5 figures at TRU. she thanked me and left the show..

about 30 minutes later as I was leaving she came up to me with a bag full of the VOTC stuff and gave me a Darth Vader as thanks for being honest and helping her out. her son was so excited to see a bag full of Luke, Leia, R2, Ben, Han, and Vader.

Old Fossil
10-02-2009, 09:54 AM
So age alone does not qualify POTF2 as vintage, then? I totally agree that POTF2 will never - in my mind - qualify as vintage. What I'm trying to understand is why, and why so many others feel the same way.

What makes vintage, Vintage?

Surely there is a 20 year-old out there who looks on the POTF2 line the same way I, as a 39 year-old, look on the POTF and older lines?

bigbarada
10-02-2009, 01:07 PM
I agree that POTF2 should never be considered vintage, but I don't think it should be classified as modern either. Right now, I believe we have four distinct times periods: vintage (77-86), "dark years" (87-94), POTF2 (95-98), modern era (99-now). I think the modern era started with the release of the first waves of Ep1 toys.

The "dark years" were only dark if you are talking about 3 3/4" action figures; but there was still plenty of Star Wars merchandise being released during that time. There was the West End Games RPG in 1987, the Heir to the Empire novel in 1991 (which ushered in modern-EU... for better or worse), and the 1994 Micro Machines line. While Star Wars was far from being the center of media attention, it hardly vanished into thin air.

According to Ebay, the eras break down like this:
Episodes 4-6 (vintage): 1977-1989
NeoClassic: 1990-2000
Episodes 1-3: 1999-2005
The Clone Wars: 2008

I'm not sure if I like the term "neoclassic" but it seems to be a good way to distinguish the POTF2 line from both vintage and modern toy lines.

LusiferSam
10-02-2009, 03:47 PM
So age alone does not qualify POTF2 as vintage, then? I totally agree that POTF2 will never - in my mind - qualify as vintage. What I'm trying to understand is why, and why so many others feel the same way.

What makes vintage, Vintage?
At it's simplest it's agreed upon term. I personally don't like the it. I think it's semi non-descriptive. I'd used another term, but nobody would know I was talking about. Once I rule the world that will all change of course. ;)

Think about Golden Age comics. Why are they 'Golden Age?' The art work is ok and the stories were mediocre at best. But anyone who knows anything about comics knows what a Golden Age is. Nobody in the 40's said "This is Golden Age of comics." The term was coined long after the fact.

The same is true of SW figures. Until the POTF2 line there was no need to differentiate the older toys from the newer toys. The package lines worked well enough. In fact they still do work with in the Vintage framework. Just like within the Modern framework the line names work to differentiate things.


Surely there is a 20 year-old out there who looks on the POTF2 line the same way I, as a 39 year-old, look on the POTF and older lines?

Maybe. The world has changed since 1985. The SW line was sold for 7 years. Hasbro only sold the original of group of POTF2 figure for about 3. The toy market is different.

IG 8D8
10-02-2009, 05:53 PM
it may as well be vintage they're so out dated. i think the new figures that are the more articulated should be differentiated from POTF/POTJ

Mad Slanted Powers
10-02-2009, 07:52 PM
The term "vintage" works for the original line because, well, they were the originals. They were also around in the era when the movies were new, and the line ended just a couple years after ROTJ. The POTF2 figure line was a complete reboot, with the figures done in a different style. It may not be entirely accurate to call them "modern" anymore, since most of the figures have been redone in a different style with more realistic proportions. Based on how the figures have been rated in the character by character thread, we could probably call most of them "garb-age" instead of "vint-age." Vintage figures often rate better, and most people would prefer newer versions to most of their POTF2 counterparts.

I'm looking up vintage in my American Heritage dictionary. The first four definitions refer to wine. Then there is definition 5. Informal. a. A group or collection of persons or things sharing certain characteristics. b. A year or period of origin: a car of 1942 vintage c. Length of existence; age. Those are all nouns. I think we are using vintage as more of an adjective, so perhaps one of these definitions fit better:

adj. 1. Of or relating to a vintage. 2. Characterized by excellence, maturity, and enduring appeal; classic. 3. Old or outmoded. 4. Of the best or most distinctive: agreed that the play was vintage O'Neill..

POTF2 would be vintage based on definition 3. Definition 2 fits the Vintage line for the most part. I wouldn't say those figures are excellent by today's standards, but there was a consistency to them and they didn't have a lot of the problems that many modern figures have. Plus, there are plenty of people who would say that those figures were better. In the future, the ROTS line forward might be considered to be vintage by definition 2, or maybe we have yet to see what will eventually be considered vintage. As long as figures keep improving, all previous versions will eventually be considered vintage by definition 3.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
10-13-2009, 09:17 PM
Looking at definitions, then, sure, the POTF2 line is "vintage". But since that term is used mostly in reference to the 1978-1985 line, then it just becomes confusing and annoying if people use it in reference to anything else.


Maybe. The world has changed since 1985. The SW line was sold for 7 years. Hasbro only sold the original of group of POTF2 figure for about 3. The toy market is different.
Huh? They've always refreshed the figure lines every so often. Remember that the vintage cards were changed whenever a new film came out, and then obviously for the POTF line. They were just more similar to each other than the modern cards are to each other, but they're still different lines (in my mind, at least).

LusiferSam
10-14-2009, 12:37 AM
Huh? They've always refreshed the figure lines every so often. Remember that the vintage cards were changed whenever a new film came out, and then obviously for the POTF line. They were just more similar to each other than the modern cards are to each other, but they're still different lines (in my mind, at least).

The cards may have changed but the figures stayed the same. The point is not about cards or "lines" or any of that stuff. It's a about the toy itself and how children play with them. Kenner sold the first 12 figure for 7 years pretty much unchanged. The same figures kids pined over after Star Wars came out were still the same who figures would pine over after ROTJ ended. There are so many more chooses today, both in the SW toy line and out of it. And toy lines don't stay that static anymore. So I think it's unlikely that somebody in their late teens or early twenties to feel the same about the the POTF2 or later lines as someone in they're thirties or forties does about the vintage line.

JediTricks
10-15-2009, 03:43 PM
So age alone does not qualify POTF2 as vintage, then? I totally agree that POTF2 will never - in my mind - qualify as vintage. What I'm trying to understand is why, and why so many others feel the same way.

What makes vintage, Vintage?

Surely there is a 20 year-old out there who looks on the POTF2 line the same way I, as a 39 year-old, look on the POTF and older lines?The term "vintage" comes from wine-making, "vin" being latin for wine. A vintage wine isn't merely an old one, but an aged one that is of exceptionally fine quality. The ways we describe action figures as quality involves their sculpt, the era they come from, their nostalgia value, and even the perception of rarity. This makes Kenner '78-85 figures "vintage" while POTF2 figures are only "old". It's like the difference between a vintage Ford Mustang and an old Ford Pinto.