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View Full Version : In defense of the new DS2 Luke figure



JediTricks
10-25-2009, 06:44 PM
There's been a lot of complaining about Hasbro's new Death Star II Luke figure which seems to have snowballed into a sense that this figure flat-out sucks. Granted, there are some deficiencies in this figure, but it's not that bad really, and I encourage everybody to really check this figure out before deciding.

First though, let me focus on the figure's actual problems:
- The arms and legs, recycled from a previous figure, don't fit the body too well. The shoulders are bulky and gapped, a little wide too. The legs are too close together and don't quite meet the crotch properly.
- Incorrect/incomplete belt design.
- Extreme left hand pose.
- Wasp-waisted proportions.
- Handcuffs don't fit too well.
- Wrong lightsaber.

Ok, so there definitely are a few issues with this figure. There's no question the recycled limbs were not effective, though I feel the arms are the real problem, the legs aren't that bad. The left hand thing is a Force gesture I suppose, reaching for the saber on the Emperor's throne, but that's not a good enough reason to go extreme with the pose. There's no excuse for the wrong belt, but at a glance it's not a huge difference. The handcuffs are limited by the scale. And the lightsaber thing is a repeated situation that we're just stuck with for poor Luke.

The waist issue is a pretty noteworthy one, and Mark Hamill was slight but not like this. Compared to the last Luke figure, where the waist meets the hips on this new figure is around 12% narrower, that's a considerable amount visually, scaled up that's nearly 2 and a half inches smaller than the previous figure.

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Ok, so here's where the defense comes in. First off, the likeness is very good, this is probably my favorite main character OT sculpted likeness in the last 5 years. The hairline isn't quite right, and there's a passive nature to the expression, but the likeness itself is quite strong.

The articulation on this figure is excellent, the mid-torso can be overused but with some restraint can be posed in ways that are extremely expressive. Little tilts and leans for smaller stuff, arches for the big battle poses, it's got it all and it can move in multiple directions at once unlike most mid-torso joints. The head has ok range, the legs and arms look good in action, and the elbows aren't hampered (though they stop at 90 degrees). And once you have any pose going on this figure, even a fairly passive one, the small waist and ill-fitting arms don't have as great an impact on the overall look, so posing this figure is a massive improvement every time.

The removable chest panel is a nifty idea and works with the actual costume's lines. The "closed" panel is ok but not fantastic. The "open" panel though is a great design, even with the slight paint slop on mine it looks utterly terrific. This is a major element for the costume even though it was only seen after the battle, it is one if its signature elements.

The gloved right hand is a new design despite the previous use of these arms having its own glove, and this is a better design, it really looks like a glove, slightly thicker than the other hand.

If Hasbro is going to use the Obi-Wan lightsaber sculpt, at least they're using the best mold this time and painting it like Luke's. They're using the ROTS Obi-Wan sculpt, and even though it has some differences like the notched upper hilt and PT belt attachment, it's lightyears better than the POTJ Ben saber they had been using that had an extremely soft sculpt and overly long blade. Plus, unlike the previous Luke ROTJ that came out last year, this time they've painted the hilt correctly (minus the silver rings around the upper hilt, but not sure if that'd even be possible at this size).

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In conclusion, yes this is a flawed figure, that is not in doubt. But it has positive aspects as well, and is not the horrible figure that many fans are making it out to be. Luke DS2 is my favorite look for my favorite Star Wars hero, so I'm both biased for AND against any figure - after all, how can it live up to my expectations? Yet that the likeness and the panel gimmick both work means this is an ok figure in my book, and I intend to buy a second one when I find it at retail.

morpheus282
10-25-2009, 07:47 PM
I hadn't noticed the problem with the legs until reading your review. Overall I suppose it's not a bad figure, but the waist thing really bothers me. I'm also not too keen on the elbows, but as you said the arms are recycled and I didn't care much for them on that figure either. The figure isn't horrible, but it does seem to be one of the weakest of the wave. It's like they had such potential, but missed it by that much.

DarkJedi5
10-25-2009, 07:55 PM
I agree with JT, it's not a great figure. But it does have its flaws and for a figure that we have been waiting and wanting for so long to end up rather halfhearted leaves a bad taste. Though it is much better in my hands than I thought it would be once I first saw the photos online.

Snowtrooper
10-25-2009, 09:09 PM
I also agree with you on this JT. I think alot of people have jumped on the bandwagon for hating this figure without taking a close look at it. Here's some of my random thoughts:

-The headsculpt is one of the best of Mark Hamill in ROTJ. Its one of the few times where the product's likeness was better than the early photos we saw. I like the serious determined look on his face too. It gets high marks for this, in my book.

-I don't mind that they reused the limbs. They are a bit bulbous, but theres been worse.

-At first, I didn't like the swappable chestplate. I thought it made him look a bit like a droid. But I don't mind it so much now. If you put in the flap open panel, the white flap distracts from chestplate seams, or so I think.

-The waist is the one thing I really don't like. It is so much narrower than the shoulders, that it really looks odd. If Hasbro would've fixed this probelm, we'd have a pretty good DSII Luke.

TheDarthVader
10-25-2009, 10:28 PM
I like this figure and don't have many problems with it. It beats the ones before it.

Tycho
10-26-2009, 12:52 AM
I opened him and made him with his tunic folded open. I like that look.

Luke's busy fighting 2 Yuuzhan Vong right now.

I'll be adding Vong to the scene as I get around to it - moreso when I have a Jacen Solo figure to fight along side the Jedi Master (from "Darktide: Onslaught! (or Ruin! (?)" in the NJO novel series - good stuff!)

Devo
10-26-2009, 06:53 PM
I too found this figures poseability to be a pleasant surprise and the headsculpt is actually good with the least offensive ball-jointed neck I've seen in some time. Thats where the good ends though.

The aesthetics of the figure are downright awful. Off proportions and huge joints. Look if they can put tiny invisible joints in a naked princess Leia figure they can do it on DSII Luke. Theres no excuse as far as I'm concerned. It was bad on the TAC Luke, this time they were just being lazy and cheap.

AmanaMatt
10-27-2009, 07:25 PM
Jt: you are with us or against us!!!! Pick you Jedi defender!!!! Figure is crap! Admit it....turn to the darkside!!!!!

AmanaMatt
10-29-2009, 07:08 AM
Ok, I picked up a Rancor - I assume this is pretty similar to the updated ROTJ version?

Its an ok figure - perfect example of how a SUPER ARTICULATED figure is totally unaesthetically pleasing. Sculpt is as sublte as a Mack truck doing 150 down a school zone.......for my money, I much prefer the far less articulated, but far nicer sculpt from a few years back with soft goods cloak

Hasbro is using the economy to justify subpar work....at least, in some cases. They are not very consistent these days

Mr. JabbaJohnL
10-29-2009, 01:39 PM
The Luke that came with the Rancor is the same one from the 2007 TAC line, with all the accessories but the coin. This one shares parts with the new Luke figure, being discussed in this thread.

It looks like they updated/corrected his vest for the new Endor battle pack, but now it looks huge. Eh, I'll keep the poncho on and it won't matter.

El Chuxter
10-29-2009, 02:10 PM
You could actually use the DS2 Luke figure for defense. It could easily put out an eye, wielded properly.

pbarnard
10-29-2009, 02:18 PM
You could actually use the DS2 Luke figure for defense. It could easily put out an eye, wielded properly.

I was thinking staking a vampire. If not for extreme T-build of the figure, it would be pretty ok overall.

JediTricks
10-29-2009, 04:23 PM
I also agree with you on this JT. I think alot of people have jumped on the bandwagon for hating this figure without taking a close look at it. Here's some of my random thoughts:

-The headsculpt is one of the best of Mark Hamill in ROTJ. Its one of the few times where the product's likeness was better than the early photos we saw. I like the serious determined look on his face too. It gets high marks for this, in my book.I really like this headsculpt too, but the expression isn't battle-worthy IMO, it's determined but not active. That's not a huge problem though, it's still a good likeness and not smiling.


-At first, I didn't like the swappable chestplate. I thought it made him look a bit like a droid. But I don't mind it so much now. If you put in the flap open panel, the white flap distracts from chestplate seams, or so I think.The seams are part of the outfit, those lines are on the actual costume, you can see them sculpted into the lower part of the torso beneath the removable panel. They do stand out more than they should though, so I can understand why folks won't dig them, but the open flap version looks great.



Ok, I picked up a Rancor - I assume this is pretty similar to the updated ROTJ version? Only the arms and legs, the head and torso on the DS2 Luke are totally different.


Its an ok figure - perfect example of how a SUPER ARTICULATED figure is totally unaesthetically pleasing. Sculpt is as sublte as a Mack truck doing 150 down a school zone.......for my money, I much prefer the far less articulated, but far nicer sculpt from a few years back with soft goods cloakI don't agree. That figure is here on my desk, it has horrible knees and cut joints for the boots, and the swivel elbows don't line up properly, with the lower sleeve being bigger than the upper. It does have less unattractive shoulders, but they don't have the range of motion. The head on the one with the Rancor is a modified version and not really intended for the ball joint, so that is fair, but the older Saga version has a double chin. :p It's 50/50, they each have deficiencies and pluses.

As for the vest, nobody liked that cloth vest so it's not a stretch to call that out.



It looks like they updated/corrected his vest for the new Endor battle pack, but now it looks huge. Eh, I'll keep the poncho on and it won't matter.I didn't know about that, just looked at some pics, and they sure did but it's really big and ugly, and ironically, it's missing the outer fold that the 2008 figure's cloth represents.

AmanaMatt
10-29-2009, 08:19 PM
I saw this once and passed. In fairness to the character, I'll probably get it.....as it is a Jedi luke........

Once I do, I'll stay opened minded

Rik Duel
10-29-2009, 10:54 PM
After 14 years of trying (!) I don't think it's unreasonable to expect this one to be not just good but great.

JediTricks
10-30-2009, 02:08 AM
After 14 years of trying (!) I don't think it's unreasonable to expect this one to be not just good but great.
Never met Hasbro, huh? ;) We still don't have an adequate Leia ANH or any capes on Vader worth a damn.

AmanaMatt
10-30-2009, 11:22 AM
Never met Hasbro, huh? ;) We still don't have an adequate Leia ANH or any capes on Vader worth a damn.

Add to that so so C-3P0s and ANH luke too!

DarkArtist
10-30-2009, 11:57 AM
i have to say i for one love the new DS II Luke. i mean there are some flaws with the figure, legs and arms, but overall it is a really decent figure. the headsculpt looks great, I actually like the Force hand gesture and the lightsaber really isn't an issue for me.

i get that alot of people want Hasbro to sculpt a more accurate version of Luke ROTJ blade but for what we got I'm happy, i mean afterall, in the EU (Shadows of the Empire and ROTJ Radio Drama) Luke models his lightsaber after Obi Wan's while he is constructing it in his hut on Tatoonie. he uses Ben's journal to see how to build one, and the sabers are very close to each other. I think there is also mention of Ben's journals in the new Legacy of the Jedi books as well as well as other EU sources

JediTricks
10-30-2009, 03:23 PM
Add to that so so C-3P0s and ANH luke too!I was going to mention 3PO but most folks get defensive and point to Ewok Village 3PO.

A good new Luke looks to be coming in the Resurgence of the Jedi battle pack, finally. That set also has the first R4-G9 based R2-D2 as well. A couple years ago, I would have bought 3 of this set.

We still don't have a good ROTJ Emperor, and I'd argue we don't have a good Han Solo yet, only a ton of so-so ones.


This new Luke is growing on me, I put the '08 ROTJ Luke Sandstorm up as Luke Throne Room and it looked weird the whole time, it's because the torso can't move properly and the belt is too high. New Luke may have the wrong belt, but man can that figure pose nicely.


The Luke Saber thing is a big deal to me. Luke's saber is based on Obi-Wan's ANH saber - the stunt model actually IS one of the ones used for Obi-Wan with several modifications - but there's something a little more elegant and unique about Luke's. The emitter is a big deal, as are the silver unbroken rings on the upper half of the hilt. Plus, Luke's saber (hero model) is the first lightsaber made specifically for the Star Wars movies rather than cobbled together from flash guns.

Qui-Long Gone
11-02-2009, 03:23 PM
I was going to pass on this Luke, but I picked one up today.

Not a great figure (left hand, waist, saber, torso, interchangeable chest)

Not a bad figure (head sculpt, articulation, articulation)

Worth getting but here's hoping for better...(vest, changeable right hand, correct saber, black robe...maybe Endor gear to boot?)

*I was really dissapointed in slave Leia...:tired:

JT, I could not agree with you more about 3PO, ANH Leia, Solo, and Emperor.

JediTricks
11-02-2009, 04:12 PM
When you say "torso", do you mean the lower torso or the upper part? I think the upper part works beautifully, that's why I ask.

Articulation twice, huh? :p


What was "really" disappointing about Leia? I don't feel that way about the fig so I am curious.


It's weird that there isn't more of an outcry to get those characters right. Maybe we should splinter off this discussion and start a new one about that, get more people involved.

Qui-Long Gone
11-02-2009, 11:29 PM
When you say "torso", do you mean the lower torso or the upper part? I think the upper part works beautifully, that's why I ask.

Lower torso of course, upper works just fine. In general, the waist is really bad, and almost wrecks the figure...almost...



What was "really" disappointing about Leia? I don't feel that way about the fig so I am curious.

The recline is great, but the head sculpt is horrid...at least the dozen or so I've seen around here....I also can't figure out the shortened chain?



It's weird that there isn't more of an outcry to get those characters right. Maybe we should splinter off this discussion and start a new one about that, get more people involved.

I will outcry :upset: on another splinter discussion with you and do my part to get more people involved! :D:thumbsup:

darthbooger
11-03-2009, 07:15 AM
$7.99 = Hasbro quality. $149.99 = Hot Toys quality. I hope everyone can see the point I'm making here. And before I get flamed, I'm not saying we should get total crap (aka Sarlaac Luke) but I wont expect high end sculpts for a $8.00 price point. I will say that both prices are too high , but thats for another thread.:thumbsup:

Mr. JabbaJohnL
11-03-2009, 07:58 PM
I found and got one of these guys today, but I might keep it in the package for a few days and exchange it for one with better paint on the hairline if I can find one (it's pretty bad). Overall, it does look pretty good in person, but those bulky joints on his shoulders and elbows are really distracting, especially when combined with his tiny waist. Hopefully I can find a better one soon and see how it is out of the package . . .

JediTricks
11-04-2009, 02:31 AM
Lower torso of course, upper works just fine. In general, the waist is really bad, and almost wrecks the figure...almost...Yeah, posing it hides this, otherwise it looks weird. I wrote a question in Q&A about this, not sure if it's gotten any votes yet.


The recline is great, but the head sculpt is horrid...at least the dozen or so I've seen around here....I also can't figure out the shortened chain?I don't find the sculpt "horrid", the paint is thick which doesn't help, but it's not Monkey Face Leia or anything, just not super accurate. The shortened chain sucks, no excuse, the plastic looks bad all around.


I will outcry :upset: on another splinter discussion with you and do my part to get more people involved! :D:thumbsup:I'll have to start that thread.


$7.99 = Hasbro quality. $149.99 = Hot Toys quality. I hope everyone can see the point I'm making here. And before I get flamed, I'm not saying we should get total crap (aka Sarlaac Luke) but I wont expect high end sculpts for a $8.00 price point. I will say that both prices are too high , but thats for another thread.:thumbsup:I dunno, that's pretty darn forgiving. It's not like we're expecting miracles, the quality of the likenesses seems to be largely in decline, and there's no excuse for getting the body design wrong, that's just sloppy. For $8, there's no reason these shouldn't be as good as they can be, yet none of the main characters live up to the rest of the line. Compare Giran to Luke, it's not even in the same ballpark.


I found and got one of these guys today, but I might keep it in the package for a few days and exchange it for one with better paint on the hairline if I can find one (it's pretty bad). Overall, it does look pretty good in person, but those bulky joints on his shoulders and elbows are really distracting, especially when combined with his tiny waist. Hopefully I can find a better one soon and see how it is out of the package . . .Like the waist, the arms look less awful posed, but yeah, try to find better hairline, one of the 2 I got is less than perfect while the other is good, it makes a nice difference.

Qui-Long Gone
11-04-2009, 08:38 AM
the paint is thick which doesn't help

That is a better way of putting it....the sculpt isn't horrid, the finish job wrecked it...


I do like that this Luke is my dynamic in pose. The bulging knees and ankles are a bit of a bother and I was glad to see that the shoulders weren't quite as exaggerated as the initial picture made them out to be...I like the attempt to bring the arms together, something that is ALWAYS frustrating when you try to get your Jedi to hold their sabers with two hands....I'll take this shoulder articulation anyday, even if it's slightly too broad...

darthbooger
11-04-2009, 08:47 AM
Okay, got this last night, need to make a retraction from my last post - I dont expect Hot Toys quality at an $8.00 price point , but I do expect enough quality control to make sure Luke isnt wearing a skirt.:tired:

JediTricks
11-04-2009, 03:59 PM
Is that a reference to the way this figure's thighs touch due to the overly narrow lower body?

AmanaMatt
11-11-2009, 08:33 PM
Ok, picked up a loose one today...

There are definitely hair color variations ranging from dark brown to light blonde...

The main issue I have with the figure: tiny waist with large upper body...makes Luke look beefy in a way...

Definitely a decent figure - great likeness....and I dig the interchangeable chest part....

Why no Jedi cloak?

bigbarada
11-11-2009, 09:59 PM
Why no Jedi cloak?

Because he never wore it again after they left Tatooine.

AmanaMatt
11-11-2009, 10:17 PM
Because he never wore it again after they left Tatooine.

Thanks....wow, clearly I need to watch Jedi again. Its been awhile.

JediTricks
11-14-2009, 03:50 AM
There are definitely hair color variations ranging from dark brown to light blonde...Wow, that's weird! As light as the TAC figure? That was pretty far off the mark.


Because he never wore it again after they left Tatooine.Dang, that's a good point. I was gonna mention budgetary issues, but you nailed it. He wears a poncho, but no cloak. The cloak stayed at Jabba's Palace most likely.

Ando
11-16-2009, 03:28 PM
He flings it off when he lands in the Rancor Pit and that's the last we see of it.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
11-22-2009, 01:04 PM
I broke down and opened my figure last night. I couldn't find a better one and I figured he'd start shipping soon with a different droid part, and it's not too terrible-looking, after all.

I more or less agree with the first post of this thread. The figure certainly has issues, mainly for me due to the wide shoulders and tiny waist. But the added waist articulation does allow for some great posing, and the likeness is damn near perfect. Hopefully they'll fix some of the issues in a few years since this figure has potential to be just about perfect.

gba88
11-23-2009, 05:12 PM
This guy actually isn't too bad... put a soft goods cloak on him, and everything will be all better :)

JediTricks
11-24-2009, 01:49 PM
I'm glad to see folks are getting into this figure a little more. I'm not seeing them on shelves, so I guess buyers are there.

Qui-Long Gone
11-25-2009, 09:19 AM
I just got a second figure last night with the lighter hair...an even better face sculpt than the other...notwithstanding the knocky knees and left hand, this is an excellent figure. :thumbsup:

DarkJedi5
11-25-2009, 11:00 AM
I swapped the left hand with a saga Bespin Luke and it works great. And since he'd in agony when he gets his hand cut of it's fine that his other hand is contorted (as far as I'm concerned) and now my favorite Luke has two useable hands!

JediTricks
11-25-2009, 01:24 PM
I ended up putting the left index finger over the right hand for the double-handed saber pose, never thought to just swap hands with another figure.

bigbarada
11-25-2009, 02:31 PM
I just got this figure yesterday. I've seen them around for a few weeks now, but only yesterday found one with a decent paint job on his face.

I honestly don't see what everyone is complaining about. Sure, he's not perfect and has some noticeable ball-joints in there, but I think his nearly-perfect face sculpt more than makes up for most of his flaws.

Qui-Long Gone
11-25-2009, 10:02 PM
I honestly don't see what everyone is complaining about. Sure, he's not perfect and has some noticeable ball-joints in there, but I think his nearly-perfect face sculpt more than makes up for most of his flaws.

Well put...but this is an "In defense of" thread, so we have to have something to complain about!

I may look into the hand swap....

*Has anyone tried the Jabba palace cloak or Endor poncho on this figure?

bigbarada
11-25-2009, 11:47 PM
Well put...but this is an "In defense of" thread, so we have to have something to complain about!

I may look into the hand swap....

*Has anyone tried the Jabba palace cloak or Endor poncho on this figure?

Well, then my one complaint would be that his left foot seems to be attached in such a way that it looks almost like his ankle is broken. If that's intended to help him achieve a certain pose, then I just haven't discovered that pose yet.

Devo
11-26-2009, 12:29 AM
Well, then my one complaint would be that his left foot seems to be attached in such a way that it looks almost like his ankle is broken. If that's intended to help him achieve a certain pose, then I just haven't discovered that pose yet.

I'm seeing that issue on a few figures lately. Captain Needa and TPM Obi-wan come to mind.

JediTricks
11-26-2009, 04:59 PM
Well, then my one complaint would be that his left foot seems to be attached in such a way that it looks almost like his ankle is broken. If that's intended to help him achieve a certain pose, then I just haven't discovered that pose yet.Yes, this is super annoying. It's on the other uses of that leg tooling as well, it's ok when posed with the foot stepping forward slightly, but anything else is messed up. Every iteration of this figure I own seems to end up that way.