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View Full Version : How Saggy Legends Can Save Our Hobby



Old Fossil
12-30-2009, 04:26 PM
Okay, so we all know the bad news: no new Legacy waves after the coming month's EU wave -- not until August. So says Hasbro. Say what you will about past "droughts," this is possibly the longest we will have seen; certainly the longest I can remember, in fifteen years of collecting the modern line.

No new product for Legacy = no new sales. Hasbro anticipates this, of course, and will draw down their expected revenues accordingly. But what will exacerbate the situation is the economy. People are more tight-fisted than ever, and with good reason. The country is still hemmorhaging jobs, and we may see inflation -- or hyperinflation -- in 2010. This is bad news for all toymakers. Also, many may have overspent for Christmas 2009, hamstringing their ability to make future purchases on luxury items, such as Star Wars action figures. So sales of said luxury item will take a hit on three fronts: fewer available product, the broader economic conditions, and historic consumer debt.

I can't imagine that these conditions will invite Hasbro to do any expansion of the Star Wars line beyond what they've already announced, which I guess is fine. But beyond that, there is absolutely nothing to prevent them from shelving Legacy altogether, seeing poor sales for the first three quarters of 2010. They have been wrong in their estimates before, and have also changed their previously-announced plans in the past, to meet changing economic conditions.

The way I see it, Legacy -- even the somewhat different Legacy Hasbro has talked about, a kind of mish-mash of Legacy and Legends -- is in great jeapordy. I'm surprised it's not being talked about more here; surely I'm not the only one worried about the dearth of new product between now and August? But it's coming, whether we want to talk about it or not, and it could (despite what Hasbro says) spell the beginning of the end for our hobby.

But then, we have pegs full of Saga Legends figures -- Anakins, Obi-Wans, Super Battle Droids, Bespin Hans, various and sundry Clones, and (of course) the hordes of Saesee Tiin's and Plo Koon's. None of us collectors here give a crap about adding more of those figures to our collections, right? But there they sit on the pegs nonetheless, and we with our wallets and our need to collect look at them and shake our heads.

I suggest we buy them.

Seriously. I for one plan on doing just that. Not all of them, all at once, but one here, one there, as my budget allows. Not to keep 'em all, mind you -- they'll make great Christmas gifts next year -- though I won't mind adding a few Clones to my pitiful little band of prequel troopers.

So what's the point of buying them at all? To support the line, to encourage Hasbro to go on with their plans of continuing to make figures. I love this hobby, and I would be sad to see it end. I don't want it to end. Therefore, I'm going to send some money Hasbro's way, via Saggy Legends. To my mind, and my eyes, seeing Saesee Tiin and Plo Koon on the pegs is better than not seeing any Star Wars figures at all; and that might just happen, if we don't support the line during this time of crisis in our hobby. We need to get a sense of urgency about it, all of us, if we want it to keep going, I believe.

Mind you, I'm no blind fan of Hasbro's. They've done a LOT of stupid things. And I'm sure a lot of us are, like me, tired of putting up with them doing said stupid things, like making upwards of eighty billion Saesee Tiin figures. But the you-know-what is hitting the fan right now, albeit in slow motion, and we need to be there for our little plastic Jedi and Clones and droids and aliens, and the characters we've loved since 1977.

So I say, support the hobby, and BUY SAGGY LEGENDS!

Droid
12-30-2009, 04:39 PM
If we buy figures we don't need or want aren't we encouraging Hasbro to make figures we don't need or want?

Old Fossil
12-30-2009, 04:49 PM
If we buy figures we don't need or want aren't we encouraging Hasbro to make figures we don't need or want?

Of course that's a risk. But I'll gladly take that risk, if it means maybe getting new Star Wars figures that I DO want. If you don't want them, then give them to a kid you know, or save 'em for Toys for Tots. There's a lot of children in need out there these days.

bigbarada
12-30-2009, 04:53 PM
Interesting timing for this thread, I just purchased two SL Shocktroopers last night. For some reason, I have kind of a weak spot for those particular red highlighted clones.

It is an interesting idea and I would have no problem supporting it as long as Hasbro resets the selection more frequently. The only way Hasbro is going to know that we don't want any more Saesee Tiins or Plo Koons is if we DON'T buy them. Hasbro will put more stock into what we say with our wallets than what we say on the internet, so I would highly recommend against buying figures that you don't want just on the off chance that it MIGHT help keep the line successful in Hasbro's eyes a little longer. That would just lead to resentment when and if the line does fold.

Although, buying up a bunch of figures to clear the pegs and then donating those figures to a charity or just giving them to your kids might not be a bad idea; but only if you have the money to spare.

Personally, I believe the heavy focus on EU, in 2008 and 2009, is one of the reasons that sales have taken such a hit (second only to the price increase in the middle of a worldwide recession). Fortunately Hasbro is correcting that mistake.

EU is only successful when the timing is right and history has proven to us that that time is NEVER.

Old Fossil
12-30-2009, 04:58 PM
Interesting timing for this thread, I just purchased two SL Shocktroopers last night. For some reason, I have kind of a weak spot for those particular red highlighted clones.

That's along the lines of what I plan to do with Clones, myself.


It is an interesting idea and I would have no problem supporting it as long as Hasbro resets the selection more frequently. The only way Hasbro is going to know that we don't want any more Saesee Tiins or Plo Koons is if we DON'T buy them. Hasbro will put more stock into what we say with our wallets than what we say on the internet, so I would highly recommend against buying figures that you don't want just on the off chance that it MIGHT help keep the line successful in Hasbro's eyes a little longer. That would just lead to resentment when and if the line does fold.

Agreed on all counts... though I still plan on buying those Jedi, for the reason you state below:


Although, buying up a bunch of figures to clear the pegs and then donating those figures to a charity or just giving them to your kids might not be a bad idea; but only if you have the money to spare.


Personally, I believe the heavy focus on EU, in 2008 and 2009, is one of the reasons that sales have taken such a hit (second only to the price increase in the middle of a worldwide recession). Fortunately Hasbro is correcting that mistake.

I dunno. We had some reall great OT-focused waves this year, though the ESB wave in particular has been difficult for many to track down, and I don't know that refresh shipments are forthcoming. There have been no reports of new cases being found, that I know of.

bigbarada
12-30-2009, 05:51 PM
I dunno. We had some reall great OT-focused waves this year, though the ESB wave in particular has been difficult for many to track down, and I don't know that refresh shipments are forthcoming. There have been no reports of new cases being found, that I know of.

Well, that would lead me to reason #3 of why I think sales have dropped. I believe that the 2009 Legacy line has answered a very important question for us: "Is there a such thing as 'too obscure' when it comes to making successful action figures?" Obviously, as much as it pains me to admit it, the answer to that would be yes.

This year has also demonstrated that Hasbro does know what they are talking about when they say that "aggressive" characters sell and background fodder doesn't (to a mass market, not to collectors).

Mr. JabbaJohnL
12-30-2009, 06:01 PM
I dunno. We had some reall great OT-focused waves this year, though the ESB wave in particular has been difficult for many to track down, and I don't know that refresh shipments are forthcoming. There have been no reports of new cases being found, that I know of.
Hasbro said that they had so much TLC product to send out that it didn't always get out in the order it was produced. This has led to some people finding more and more of the TPM wave recently, several months after it first shipped, well after several other waves were also shipped. So there's still a very good possibility that the ESB wave will be shipping for a while.

I was at a Target today, and the problem wasn't Saga Legends or Clone Wars. It was the Droid Factory line. There were tons of ROTJ figures that weren't moving, and this is more bothersome to me than anything else involving this line. Of course, there were still a few Plo Koons and Saesee Tiins, but nothing horrible. This time last year, the pegs were mostly devoid of figures except for Yarna. Even the Organas had sold out; it was the continued post-Christmas shippings that killed it. Every store is different, but hopefully the downtime will allow the pegs to clear out a bit more.

Kids and casual collectors are still going to want Anakin, Obi-Wan, and the other main characters, so having collectors waste their time and money isn't going to help anything in that department. (None of those guys are pegwarming here, anyway.) Buy up all the extra Major Pannos and Nien Nunbs if you really want to do something. Hasbro has confirmed that Saesee Tiin and Plo Koon will be pulled from the Legends lineup, so buy what's remaining from there if you really feel like it. (I got a Plo Koon for Toys for Tots, so that's at least something.) And they still claim that the Legends line is doing better than the Droid Factory line, so buying more Legends is only going to cause them to make more Legends.

If people really want to help out, they can buy the several exclusives that the stores picked up. Those, not the Legends line, are what are truly aimed at collectors, and I saw a lot of "eh, I'll wait until it's on clearance" talk around here, which is frustrating. What's even more frustrating is people getting these items, like the Rancor or Octuptarra, on clearance, and realizing that these are truly great pieces far too late to actually help the line. Legends will continue no matter what we do.

bigbarada
12-30-2009, 06:18 PM
Hasbro said that they had so much TLC product to send out that it didn't always get out in the order it was produced. This has led to some people finding more and more of the TPM wave recently, several months after it first shipped, well after several other waves were also shipped. So there's still a very good possibility that the ESB wave will be shipping for a while.

I was at a Target today, and the problem wasn't Saga Legends or Clone Wars. It was the Droid Factory line. There were tons of ROTJ figures that weren't moving, and this is more bothersome to me than anything else involving this line. Of course, there were still a few Plo Koons and Saesee Tiins, but nothing horrible. This time last year, the pegs were mostly devoid of figures except for Yarna. Even the Organas had sold out; it was the continued post-Christmas shippings that killed it. Every store is different, but hopefully the downtime will allow the pegs to clear out a bit more.

Kids and casual collectors are still going to want Anakin, Obi-Wan, and the other main characters, so having collectors waste their time and money isn't going to help anything in that department. (None of those guys are pegwarming here, anyway.) Buy up all the extra Major Pannos and Nien Nunbs if you really want to do something. Hasbro has confirmed that Saesee Tiin and Plo Koon will be pulled from the Legends lineup, so buy what's remaining from there if you really feel like it. (I got a Plo Koon for Toys for Tots, so that's at least something.) And they still claim that the Legends line is doing better than the Droid Factory line, so buying more Legends is only going to cause them to make more Legends.

If people really want to help out, they can buy the several exclusives that the stores picked up. Those, not the Legends line, are what are truly aimed at collectors, and I saw a lot of "eh, I'll wait until it's on clearance" talk around here, which is frustrating. What's even more frustrating is people getting these items, like the Rancor or Octuptarra, on clearance, and realizing that these are truly great pieces far too late to actually help the line. Legends will continue no matter what we do.

I would agree with this. It's more important that we keep retailers happy, not Hasbro. They are a critical link in the chain as well and if all the retailers lose faith in the Star Wars brand, then it's over, regardless of what plans Hasbro has for the future.

I would also agree that those collectors who wait for clearance princes on EVERY exclusive do nothing but hurt the hobby for everyone.

JediTricks
12-30-2009, 06:38 PM
IMO, we should buy what we want, what we like, as individuals. That will tell them what is working, that alone will send the message. The Soggy Legends line isn't really meant for collector interests, so the kids and casual collectors need to keep buying it for it to matter more than anyone else. But that doesn't mean we should ignore it, there are some figures worth buying in it for a lot of us. If they had the TAC Stormtrooper in there, I'd probably buy 1 a week, but sadly that is not one of the SL figs for some reason.


I also agree that buying exclusives is a good indicator of how the future of the line looks. A lot of collectors are holding off on buying great stuff like the Rancor, the Clone Wars Y-wing (not an exclusive, but it fits in the "great stuff folks aren't buying category), the AT-ST, the big-wing SOTE TIE Fighter, the Octuptarra Droid, because of the perception that they are overpriced and will go on clearance. Well, buying them on clearance sends the wrong message altogether, that the line doesn't have legs. Buying on clearance helps your pocket now but DOOMS the future of the line. And there isn't a single item I just mentioned that is notably overpriced. The AT-ST is nearly double the size of the original, far more detailed, and comes with a figure. The Rancor is big and rad and comes with a figure. The Octuptarra is huge. The TIE Fighter is nearly perfect, looks great, and comes with a figure. Granted, not everybody will be into these, but collectors should be buying what interests them now, not waiting for it to tank. Back in '85, a trip to Pic-n-Sav would net a MOUNTAIN of clearanced SW toys; then in '86, there were no more SW toys at all. That's not what we want.

Mad Slanted Powers
12-30-2009, 09:05 PM
I rarely wait to buy something, because I never know if I'm going to see it again.

I might be inclined to buy some Legends figures if there is a long drought, but it will probably just be troopers or other generic figures that I can use.

Old Fossil
12-30-2009, 10:36 PM
I was at a Target today, and the problem wasn't Saga Legends or Clone Wars. It was the Droid Factory line. There were tons of ROTJ figures that weren't moving, and this is more bothersome to me than anything else involving this line. Of course, there were still a few Plo Koons and Saesee Tiins, but nothing horrible. This time last year, the pegs were mostly devoid of figures except for Yarna. Even the Organas had sold out; it was the continued post-Christmas shippings that killed it. Every store is different, but hopefully the downtime will allow the pegs to clear out a bit more.

That is almost the complete reverse of every store I check -- 3 different Wal-Marts, 1 Target, and 1 TRU. In each case, Legacy was in short supply, and the pegs were still mostly full of Legends. From what I understand, most stores are similar.


Kids and casual collectors are still going to want Anakin, Obi-Wan, and the other main characters, so having collectors waste their time and money isn't going to help anything in that department. (None of those guys are pegwarming here, anyway.) Buy up all the extra Major Pannos and Nien Nunbs if you really want to do something. Hasbro has confirmed that Saesee Tiin and Plo Koon will be pulled from the Legends lineup, so buy what's remaining from there if you really feel like it. (I got a Plo Koon for Toys for Tots, so that's at least something.) And they still claim that the Legends line is doing better than the Droid Factory line, so buying more Legends is only going to cause them to make more Legends.

I have no problem buying more Legacy to support the hobby, but the point of my original post is that there will be no new Legacy to support the line in the coming months. Besides Clone Wars, it is going to fall to Saga Legends to carry the line until August, whether we like it or not. Legacy, for all intents and purposes, is a done deal until August; and even that is not guaranteed. Like I said a moment ago, most stores do not have a terrific glut of Legacy, so the line will not depend on Legacy so much to survive in the coming months -- much more will depend on Legends.


If people really want to help out, they can buy the several exclusives that the stores picked up. Those, not the Legends line, are what are truly aimed at collectors, and I saw a lot of "eh, I'll wait until it's on clearance" talk around here, which is frustrating. What's even more frustrating is people getting these items, like the Rancor or Octuptarra, on clearance, and realizing that these are truly great pieces far too late to actually help the line. Legends will continue no matter what we do.

I do not agree that "Legends will continue no matter what we do." Nothing is set in stone, especially in this economy. We should be more proactive in ensuring our hobby survives, not just assume that things will continue as they always have. You cannot take anything for granted in retail sales, not anymore.

I agree that the clearance talk is frustrating, but is it surprising, given the nearly ridiculous price point for nearly every store exclusive this holiday season? I only bought the Dewback, and it did not feel good to pay $30 for it. Pretty much everything else -- the Octuparra droid, the AT-ST, the Rancor, Wedge's X-Wing, the TIE Interceptor -- was priced such that only collectors would be willing to buy, and it turns out not enough of us were willing. Collector-targeted exclusives have never carried this line; it is the main figure line that is the meat and potatoes of the Hasbro Star Wars line, and Kenner before that.


I would agree with this. It's more important that we keep retailers happy, not Hasbro. They are a critical link in the chain as well and if all the retailers lose faith in the Star Wars brand, then it's over, regardless of what plans Hasbro has for the future.


No arguments there. Happy consumers=happy retailers=happy Hasbro. We were not happy with exclusive prices, and it showed in poor sales for those items. Hasbro will not be so quick to offer them again; I'm willing to bet right now that, come next holiday, we will not see more than 1/4 of the number of exclusives we had this year, if that much. We had our chance to show Hasbro the level of collector support for the line, and, well, I guess we did. But what DID sell well? Basic figures -- Legacy, and Legends -- and (to a lesser extent) basic vehicles. We will see more Legends. We should support Legends in the coming year, while we are offered the chance.


IMO, we should buy what we want, what we like, as individuals. That will tell them what is working, that alone will send the message.

Agreed. That has worked in the past, for the most part. But these are not normal times. Apparently it is becoming as Hasbro has argued for years: kids are the real supporters of this line. Adult collectors seem to be a dying breed, though we make ourselves heard better than kids... though our cries are underscored by our reluctance or inability to support collector-focused items. As you said:


The Soggy Legends line isn't really meant for collector interests, so the kids and casual collectors need to keep buying it for it to matter more than anyone else. But that doesn't mean we should ignore it, there are some figures worth buying in it for a lot of us. If they had the TAC Stormtrooper in there, I'd probably buy 1 a week, but sadly that is not one of the SL figs for some reason.

There are absolutely some figures worth buying, as BigBarada's example above shows. We should absolutely get those when we are able; at $7-$8 each, they are much easier on the budget than any collector-targeted store exclusive, a great way to support the hobby in the 7 to 8-month lull ahead.

And there IS a Sandtrooper (clean) in the assortments I've seen.:yes:


I also agree that buying exclusives is a good indicator of how the future of the line looks. A lot of collectors are holding off on buying great stuff like the Rancor, the Clone Wars Y-wing (not an exclusive, but it fits in the "great stuff folks aren't buying category), the AT-ST, the big-wing SOTE TIE Fighter, the Octuptarra Droid, because of the perception that they are overpriced and will go on clearance. Well, buying them on clearance sends the wrong message altogether, that the line doesn't have legs. Buying on clearance helps your pocket now but DOOMS the future of the line. And there isn't a single item I just mentioned that is notably overpriced. The AT-ST is nearly double the size of the original, far more detailed, and comes with a figure. The Rancor is big and rad and comes with a figure. The Octuptarra is huge. The TIE Fighter is nearly perfect, looks great, and comes with a figure. Granted, not everybody will be into these, but collectors should be buying what interests them now, not waiting for it to tank. Back in '85, a trip to Pic-n-Sav would net a MOUNTAIN of clearanced SW toys; then in '86, there were no more SW toys at all. That's not what we want.

Again, I agree totally with all this, but we have unfortunately missed our chance to support collector-targeted store exclusives this year. I cannot imagine, given the volume of leftover clearance items I've witnessed, that we will be given this opportunity again in 2010. The failure of store exclusives this year is going to be what nearly kills them permanently.

And again, I'm looking ahead. We have to support the line somehow until August. Saga Legends (and to a much lesser extent, Legacy) is a way to do that, to at least show we are still here and buying Star Wars figures. Buying clearanced store exclusives, as you said, sends the wrong message, but the message has for all intents and purposes already been sent.

We have to live with Saga Legends. We should make the most of it.

Blue2th
12-30-2009, 11:31 PM
As far back as the BMF I've paid full pop for most everything coming down the pipe. Sure I like a sale, like the Walmart $6 a figure, but I've learned one thing is don't wait for a sale or you could miss out on some good stuff. Try to find a dark colored Rancor. There's plenty of the light ones on sale. It doesn't even have to be an exclusive, just a good value like the Yavin BP.
I'm not guilt free in buying a few of the Walmart BAD's for $13 a piece though.

I'm a believer in supporting Hasbro and not waiting for a clearance. I realize all the effort and expense to bring us the wonderful figures and vehicles we've been getting, and if everybody did that it is unsustainable, which could very well happen these days. So I do what I can to keep it going.

I go this far, but I cannot support the Legends line, sorry it's a redundant waste of resources for me, made for kids who want the SW heroes and clones plus a few poor business decisions like too many Saaesee's clogging the pegs.
Legends should have only figures with a proven track record of being good sellers. That's just common sense.

morpheus282
12-30-2009, 11:39 PM
If people really want to help out, they can buy the several exclusives that the stores picked up. Those, not the Legends line, are what are truly aimed at collectors, and I saw a lot of "eh, I'll wait until it's on clearance" talk around here, which is frustrating. What's even more frustrating is people getting these items, like the Rancor or Octuptarra, on clearance, and realizing that these are truly great pieces far too late to actually help the line. Legends will continue no matter what we do.

I bought the rancor, Red 2 X-wing, dewback, and AT-ST at full price. I bought my daughter the turbo tank on sale, but not clearanced. The Target TIE, TRU TIE interceptor and gunship, and the Y-wing were all in the realm of "yes it's very nice, but I've only got enough dollars to buy so much". Should any of the items I passed on go on clearance I may be able to reconsider the purchase, but the ones I did buy I bought as soon as I saw them hit the shelf.

morpheus282
12-30-2009, 11:42 PM
I also bought 4 out of 5 of the Droid Factory packs to get a full darktrooper. If I run across #5 on clearance, I won't feel guilty about buying it since I've already plunked down $68 on the first four.

El Chuxter
12-31-2009, 01:17 PM
Well, buying them on clearance sends the wrong message altogether, that the line doesn't have legs. Buying on clearance helps your pocket now but DOOMS the future of the line.

How else to send the message that we don't want all the exclusives (and an awful lot of them) at one time, especially at the prices they charge? Or to send the message that the steadily-increasing prices on exclusives have finally surpassed the breaking point?

I'm not especially "up" on all the exclusives, but, within a couple of months of Christmas, we had at least two, possibly three, exclusive ARC-170s, an exclusive TIE, the exclusive Rancor (a holdout from earlier in the year, more on him later), the Droid Factory exclusive sets, the exclusive Dewback, the exclusive Octuparra, the exclusive X-Wing, two Target exclusive Battlepacks, the Geonosis Arena exclusive sets, and, I'm pretty sure, a few others I'm missing. Whew! And that's in addition to the bulk of the new 2009 SW material finally showing up in the period since September, including big pieces like the Y-Wing, as well as exclusives and new products in the Transformers, GIJoe, and Marvel lines, at least one of which will appeal to most adult collectors.

That's a LOT of money for them to ask for all at once. In this economy, with the price hike on all the basic Hasbro toys, it's even worse. Never mind the additional expenses most families have to deal with around Christmas, what with that crazy desire to buy things for other people and decorate and all.

At some point, consumers have to, somehow, tell Hasbro that it's too much, too fast. It's not that we don't want this stuff, but all at once, at the end of the year--it's tough to do.


And there isn't a single item I just mentioned that is notably overpriced.

I would argue with you over the Rancor here. The Rancor itself is beautiful, and quite big. But it's a re-used mold. And the Luke is not only re-used, but really lousy, and so inaccurate to the scene (blasted hand and lightsaber?), it's not even funny.

At $40, I was considering it. I thought it was probably worth it, but that's a lot of money to spend. But it actually went up $10 before I found one that looked decent, and it remained at the new price for what seemed like an eternity. It was absolutely not worth $50. About $35 seems like the ideal point, and I would've paid that, only most Targets (including all the ones around me) marked it down to $25.

IIRC, the TFU Rancor was $40, with it being a new sculpt with a new figure. Ten dollars more, for a re-use with a re-release figure that most collectors simply will have no need for, and for a scene that probably has more general consumer appeal than the TFU version, is insanity. The same price would've been acceptable, but more wasn't.

I would've gladly paid $35 to send the message it was worth that much, but it wasn't until today, after seeing it half-price at six other Targets, I found one that marked it down to that point. And it's one isolated Target, about five hours from my house. If the distribution had been better for the brief time it was $40, at least good enough for me to find one that looked good, I would've paid $40.

The AT-ST was more in line with reality, costing less than the Rancor for a more detailed and intricate--and new!--sculpt. If not for all the other competing SW items recently, coupled with the way this rotted on shelves, I would've paid full price.

Bottom line: if people are always so afraid of sending the message that SW doesn't sell and buys every exclusive item at full price, it sends the wrong message: that we're willing to pay everything. And, being a company (and I can't blame them), Hasbro will try to charge more for more items each year. Was the breaking point 2009? Will it be 2010? 2011? At some point, it will come for everyone (except Tycho, since I figure anyone who can army-build AT-ST's budgets an awful lot for SW :p).

And, unless every collector, young and old, goes along with the plan to buy at full price, or if we all buy multiples, it won't be enough to make a real difference.

Dark Marble
12-31-2009, 01:59 PM
I for one welcome the break and won't be buying very much until August. I support the line with my purchases and buy everything full price for the most part and buy the things that really interest me.

I guess the worst that could happpen is that the toy line could end and they won't make any new movie collectibles for a while. I don't know if that is such a horrible terrible thing. We number into the thousands of figures, more vehicles than we could have hoped for, and have moved past the movies into expanded universe to get things we never dreamed would be made. Not bad for 15 years of steady collecting.

I say this because I think the line is fine. There is still a buck to be made and we will see a lot more before it is over. But when it is over I kind of hope it is abrupt instead of having things trickle out and be hard to find.

Bottom line, we just got the ice cream maker guy from ESB. That is an official we are coming to the end of everything the line has to offer.

morpheus282
12-31-2009, 02:10 PM
Careful with that kind of talk, Dark Marble. I said something similar a month or so ago in another thread and dang near got nailed to a tree because of it.

AmanaMatt
12-31-2009, 02:35 PM
I suspect not many collectors spend the big money anymore......I still support the line:

Paid full price for BMF
Full price on two Rancors
Full price on the Dewbacks from Walmart
Full price on the TRU Inceptor and Target Tie


Did pass on the At-St, but it sold out everywhere near me....

Personally, it doesnt phase me that Hasbro has the line on hold or whatever...they release too much garbage these days and hate 70% of the figure choices

sith_killer_99
12-31-2009, 02:38 PM
I dropped my Hasbro collecting back in 2006. The only Hasbro stuff I buy anymore is for my daughter, she is a big Clone Wars fan.

These days my focus is on Kotobukiya and Gentle Giants stuff.

Besides, much to my dismay figures seem to have jumped to almost $9.00 each, no way I will pay that much for a basic figure, except for the few I buy for my daughter here and there.

Sure, I can always find sales for $6.00 each or whatever, but "collecting" means I have to take a chance that I will find the stuff I want when it goes on sale, or pay full price most of the time.

No, the quality of figures does not command a $9.00 price tag (or $7.50-$8.00 at Wal-Mart) and so, despite my recent renewed interest in collecting and a few really awesome figures that have popped up, I simply can not justify the price point.

I would rather buy 1 new GG Mini Bust for the price of a single wave of new figures. Also, as GG has branched out with some cool stuff like the Classics Busts, Maquettes, Animated versions of classic characters, etc. I am all set in terms of what I can spend for my SW collecting.

It really is a shame too, as my renewed interest has also stemmed from Hasbro addressing a critical aspect of my collecting. Army Builders, they have done a tremendous job of adding troopers of all kinds. New Imperial Officers, Stormtrooper, Sandtroopers, Scout Troopers, Snowtroopers, Scanning Crew, etc. in addition to Clones. In fact, I could walk into 6 different stores around my area right now and buy 4-5 army builders from either the PT or OT! Add to that all the box sets out there with army builders and I could easily drop $2,000.00 and have an incredible army. Then there are all the new ships OT and PT. Build a droid was also an awesome idea and gives collectors something they have wanted for a long time.

I may not be collecting anymore, but trust me, it seems Hasbro has been pulling out all the stops to keep the line alive. Now if we could just see them cut down the price point I may consider coming back, but that isn't likely to happen.

mtriv73
12-31-2009, 03:19 PM
How else to send the message that we don't want all the exclusives (and an awful lot of them) at one time, especially at the prices they charge? Or to send the message that the steadily-increasing prices on exclusives have finally surpassed the breaking point?



That's exactly it. Everything at once has made it almost impossible to keep up. Unless you have a 6 figure income and no kids or mortgage, it's hard to justify that much money over such a short period of time. The worst part is, it looks like they're going to do the same thing to us again next year. Rather than trying to support a line I have no interest in by throwing money away on legends figures I already bought enough of the first time around, I'll be saving my dollars for when the flood gates reopen next fall.

As far as the exclusives go. I had no trouble justifying $30 for the dewback or $43 for the AT-ST. The build a droid walmart exclusives were an insult at $17 a piece. Especially since we got pretty much the same thing from Target for $12 each. I also happily laid out the money for the TIE Int and the Wedge X-wing. I probably would have eventually bought the gunship at full price (if I hadn't just spent over $500 on other exclusives and wave after wave of figures) but I found it on sale first. I would have never bought the turbo tank at full price. It just didn't interest me enough to justify the money so I figure Hasbro moved one more until than they would have otherwise when I bought it on sale.

For me, the bottom line is that if the pacing. It's been ridiculous since comic-con and then we'll have a whole lot of nothing for many months. I wonder how many more collectors Hasbro will lose because they find other (better) uses for their disposable income in the interim?

JetsAndHeels
12-31-2009, 03:44 PM
I was in Walmart earlier today and saw a lady with her son (who was probably around 10 or 11). They were looking through the SW figures and had several of them placed to the side that they were going to purchase. I overheard the mom ask him if he had a certain one, to which he replied "No, but that is from the legacy collection. I really only want the legends."

It is basically the opposite of my mentality when I am hunting for figures (because I want the newer stuff, not the repacks), but it does support the idea of this entire thread. The legends line does carry alot of weight in this hobby, whether we like them or not.

TheDarthVader
12-31-2009, 04:00 PM
If I am going to buy some legends they need to make them better. I wanted to buy the new Han Solo mynock hunt figure, but the body sculpt looked horrible.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
12-31-2009, 05:06 PM
we had at least two, possibly three, exclusive ARC-170s
There was the shadow ARC-170, but that was a general release, and the only ARC-170 this year.


If I am going to buy some legends they need to make them better. I wanted to buy the new Han Solo mynock hunt figure, but the body sculpt looked horrible.
It's a repack of the 2000 figure but with an added mask, so it's definitely outdated. The rest of them are more up-to-date.

A Walmart I was just at had the opposite situation from the aforementioned Target: an absolute ton of Legends, some Clone Wars, and just a few Droid Factory remnants (some leftovers from the ROTS wave). They had a similar situation before Christmas, but it looks like most of the Legends figures sold out and were possibly replaced. For instance, I remember seeing a lot of X-wing Luke and Darth Maul last time, but didn't notice any this time. Come to think of it, many of the Targets in my area have more Droid Factory than Saga Legends, while Walmart is the opposite. The Walmart also had a ton of their Octuptarra, Dewback, and AT-ST all in the clearance section but at regular price. That was a little sad to see.

I suppose I do agree about there being too many exclusives. When I got the Walmart Droid Factory sets and they rang up at $92 after tax, my eyes nearly exploded. And while there were indeed quite a few exclusives in the latter part of the year, there were also some spread throughout - as I said, I got the Droid Factory sets sometime in the summer, along with several non-exclusives like the Turbo Tank, ARC-170, and deluxe sets. The Rancor was available online in January or February at $40, but after shipping it was about $50. It didn't show up in stores for several months after that, and then went through everything Chux described and sat around much longer than the 2007 TFU version. Still, since it seems like a lot of collectors passed on the TFU one, then I'm not sure why they waited so much on the ROTJ one, even with the $10 price hike.

Anyway, quite a few of the exclusives this year were EU or TCW, so again, I'm not sure why OT-only collectors would feel like there was too much. From the movies, we had the Dewback, AT-ST, TIE Interceptor, the Geonosis sets (in October), Rancor (in the spring), and Wedge's X-wing (in the summer). From the EU, we had the Target TIE Fighter, the Droid Factory sets (in the summer) and the Imperial V-wing (in October, which could kind of be considered a ROTS vehicle). From TCW, we had the two Target battle packs, four Walmart two-packs, Octuptarra, and Republic Gunship, which even I admit was a ripoff at $70 but thankfully they decreased the price to $50 for almost a month. There was also some stuff at the beginning of the year. Okay, well, maybe that was quite a lot. But most of it was really high-quality - certainly better than the $63 Sarlacc set from last year - and relatively spread out across a few months and across several categories. Anyway, my original point was that supporting the exclusives is going to help the collectors out more than supporting Saga Legends. As Chux said, one or two collectors isn't going to change anything, but the fact that this is a widespread issue is a little disheartening.

I want to see how Hasbro responds to the question we asked about the hiatus, and I also want to know what all they have planned for next year.

Blue2th
12-31-2009, 06:22 PM
When hasbro goes on a hiatus is the time to fill in the gaps of my collection. This doesn't mean repaints or re-releases though.

I collect other things so I can catch up on that also. There's a couple of 21st Century Toys 1:18 Planes I'm missing that are no longer made only available on the pricey secondary market.

Maybe try to get a Action Fleet Alpha Sith Infiltrator $$$.

There's always something to buy. I welcome a small break. Just don't make it too long.

JediTricks
12-31-2009, 07:09 PM
That is almost the complete reverse of every store I check -- 3 different Wal-Marts, 1 Target, and 1 TRU. In each case, Legacy was in short supply, and the pegs were still mostly full of Legends. From what I understand, most stores are similar. Same here, Legacy is in short supply while CW and SL crowd the pegs. I've been talking about this problem a lot lately around the forums.


I have no problem buying more Legacy to support the hobby, but the point of my original post is that there will be no new Legacy to support the line in the coming months. Besides Clone Wars, it is going to fall to Saga Legends to carry the line until August, whether we like it or not. Legacy, for all intents and purposes, is a done deal until August; and even that is not guaranteed. Like I said a moment ago, most stores do not have a terrific glut of Legacy, so the line will not depend on Legacy so much to survive in the coming months -- much more will depend on Legends.I think the idea is that SL and Legacy are both "movie" lines and retailers need to know there are still movie buying audiences out there.


I agree that the clearance talk is frustrating, but is it surprising, given the nearly ridiculous price point for nearly every store exclusive this holiday season? I only bought the Dewback, and it did not feel good to pay $30 for it. Pretty much everything else -- the Octuparra droid, the AT-ST, the Rancor, Wedge's X-Wing, the TIE Interceptor -- was priced such that only collectors would be willing to buy, and it turns out not enough of us were willing. Collector-targeted exclusives have never carried this line; it is the main figure line that is the meat and potatoes of the Hasbro Star Wars line, and Kenner before that.This I don't get. The Dewback is larger and more articulated than the original which was $15 but that was 12 years ago and had movie support. Granted, I don't think this new Dewback is all that good, but that's due to my distaste for the new design edict from LFL, not Hasbro's work. Some of the exclusives this year have been high, some haven't. The Rancor was first a good price then jumped $10. The AT-ST is not an unreasonable price IMO, that thing is way bigger than the original and far more articulated and detailed, plus it comes with a figure. The Octuptarra Droid is bigger than a standard vehicle as well, so it's not surprising the price is higher. The question in my mind isn't whether or not the exclusives are too expensive, IMO most are within normal parameters, but whether there's a market for this stuff that will pay to own it.


No arguments there. Happy consumers=happy retailers=happy Hasbro. We were not happy with exclusive prices, and it showed in poor sales for those items. Hasbro will not be so quick to offer them again; I'm willing to bet right now that, come next holiday, we will not see more than 1/4 of the number of exclusives we had this year, if that much. We had our chance to show Hasbro the level of collector support for the line, and, well, I guess we did. But what DID sell well? Basic figures -- Legacy, and Legends -- and (to a lesser extent) basic vehicles. We will see more Legends. We should support Legends in the coming year, while we are offered the chance.I don't follow the thinking here. We don't support the line strongly anymore so we should support a line that's not geared towards us? Next holiday, we'll be lucky if there's ANY non-Clone Wars product on the shelves. Basic figures didn't sell that great, that's why Legacy sales are at the bottom and why the line is going on hiatus for 8 months.


Agreed. That has worked in the past, for the most part. But these are not normal times. Apparently it is becoming as Hasbro has argued for years: kids are the real supporters of this line. Adult collectors seem to be a dying breed, though we make ourselves heard better than kids... though our cries are underscored by our reluctance or inability to support collector-focused items.Kids aren't part of the line anymore, they're only into Clone Wars apparently. SL is popular with retailers because they had seen past sales, but that doesn't mean it sold well in the now, only they hoped it would based on past sales.

If we buy what we don't really want, then we'll get more of that, not more of what we do want.


There are absolutely some figures worth buying, as BigBarada's example above shows. We should absolutely get those when we are able; at $7-$8 each, they are much easier on the budget than any collector-targeted store exclusive, a great way to support the hobby in the 7 to 8-month lull ahead.What's easy on the budget about buying stuff one doesn't want? Look at the '09 Saga Legends wave currently shipping, there are 3 revisions of this assortment, totaling 18 figures:


Super Battle Droid - I'm unimpressed with this mold, it's got an odd deco, could use more articulation, and wilts too easily.
Plo Koon - pegs are overloaded on this guy, I have no more use for this ROTS mold.
Clone Trooper - I've never liked the sad puppy Ep 2 clone, but I did get what I needed over the last few years.
Obi-Wan Kenobi (Mustafar) - a fair figure, but I'm not a fan of ROTS and already bought this one. Maybe I could buy an extra to headswap with Ep 1 and 2 Obi-Wan, but I'm not sure their outfits are close enough.
Anakin Skywalker (Darth Vader) - See previous, minus the interest to buy any more.
Shock Trooper - I never liked this variant.
501st Clone Trooper - This one isn't as bad, but I didn't feel compelled to buy it before and still don't.
Darth Maul - Inferior decade-old mold rehashed to work with a vehicle nobody liked, now painted even worse.
Clone Trooper (Episode III) - a good figure but one I've bought plenty of over the last 4 years. I'm done with this guy, it's clone overload.
Sandtrooper - the VOTC Stormie in black pauldron gear, so it's inaccurate as 2 figures instead of 1. I prefer the TAC Stormie mold now, this one has that big ugly ball joint neck that shows, and the TAC sculpt is cleaner overall. I might buy another one of these mainly out of pity, but what is the point of a clean sandtrooper?
Han Solo - Look, I dug this figure in POTJ, but gas mask or no, it's way outdated now with its simplistic design and modest articulation. And now its paint has surprise-eyes? Not tempting.
Chewbacca - VOTC Chewie with a new added gas mask. It's an ok figure, but I just got a new, more versatile ANH-hair Chewie with the Falcon, and ROTJ Chewie with pilot headset. I don't need another ROTJ Chewie... ever. Maybe I'll buy one to go with the AT-ST, but again, this would be a pity buy.
R2-D2 - a cute figure for kids, but utterly useless for collectors, and way overproduced. This frankensteined mold has modern legs but a body sculpt from 11 years ago with a non-movable dome and inaccurate orange LED radar eye. This is among the last R2s I ever want to buy again, I have one, it's cute, but that's it.
Saesee Tiin -AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I think I've said enough on this subject. Let's just say there's no chance I am going to pity-buy this figure. And it's pegwarming hard, so I'm not alone there.
C-3PO - I liked this mold enough to buy 2 when it came out, but it's been easily available for a while, and I just don't think it's good enough to warrant buying more of. I want a better C-3PO than this thing can deliver
Yoda with Kybuck - I didn't go for it when it first came out, and I still don't dig it.
Darth Vader - aka Captain Inevitable. Because yeah, if there's one thing we collectors are missing, it's this guy. So what if he's been released half a dozen different previous ways and is inferior in every way to the latest version, which itself could be better? I'm done buying 500th Vader.
Luke Skywalker (X-wing Pilot) - I liked this SL repaint of the figure enough to buy it last year, but how many Luke X-wings does one guy need?

This is not an inspiring line to support, there's very little offered to collectors, very little that I find easy to support. The army builders are all prequels save 1 Sandtrooper that converts to the VOTC Stormie which is the inferior version of the character, and is somewhat useless as a sandtrooper since he's a clean variant. The OT main characters are poorly represented, and there's a lot of holes in the PT main guys as well. Basically, this is an ROTS wave 4 years+ after that film came out, the support for it overall has waned and SL hasn't caught up with the times. If there was something better offered in the upcoming SL line, I might support that, but this here is not viable from any perspective, it's like a leftovers line rather than true legends of the SW line.


And there IS a Sandtrooper (clean) in the assortments I've seen.:yes:I didn't say Sandtrooper, I said Stormtrooper. They are different armor designs. I am sick of clean sandtroopers, I am kinda tired of buying sandtroopers at all anymore, they're not getting better the way the Stormie did with the TAC figure. And I mentioned this figures issues above as well.

And BTW, $7.49 to $8.64 for these Soggy Legends is a joke, most of them we bought for $6 only a few years ago. These are not the cream of the crop figures.


Again, I agree totally with all this, but we have unfortunately missed our chance to support collector-targeted store exclusives this year. I cannot imagine, given the volume of leftover clearance items I've witnessed, that we will be given this opportunity again in 2010. The failure of store exclusives this year is going to be what nearly kills them permanently. If the product moves at full price, even late, they'll notice. But exclusives aren't going to bury the line, each retailer sets up those deals separately, it just dents it. The failure of 2008 TLC overall seems to be what's really killing the line, and the failure of non-exclusives like Comic Packs, Evolutions, stuff that too much faith was put into during a long break on SW and price increases.


And again, I'm looking ahead. We have to support the line somehow until August. Saga Legends (and to a much lesser extent, Legacy) is a way to do that, to at least show we are still here and buying Star Wars figures. Buying clearanced store exclusives, as you said, sends the wrong message, but the message has for all intents and purposes already been sent.

We have to live with Saga Legends. We should make the most of it.I don't think this is correct. Hasbro and retailers treat Saga Legends as a separate entity from Legacy. SL is not the savior as your desperate tone here claims. If TPTB see SL as separate, then buying stuff we really don't want for too much money isn't going to send any message other than "we are suckers who will buy anything". Buying SL for the sake of sending a message is not sending the message that we want Legacy - these aren't good enough movie figures to sell that concept.




How else to send the message that we don't want all the exclusives (and an awful lot of them) at one time, especially at the prices they charge? Or to send the message that the steadily-increasing prices on exclusives have finally surpassed the breaking point?

I'm not especially "up" on all the exclusives, but, within a couple of months of Christmas, we had at least two, possibly three, exclusive ARC-170s, an exclusive TIE, the exclusive Rancor (a holdout from earlier in the year, more on him later), the Droid Factory exclusive sets, the exclusive Dewback, the exclusive Octuparra, the exclusive X-Wing, two Target exclusive Battlepacks, the Geonosis Arena exclusive sets, and, I'm pretty sure, a few others I'm missing. Whew! And that's in addition to the bulk of the new 2009 SW material finally showing up in the period since September, including big pieces like the Y-Wing, as well as exclusives and new products in the Transformers, GIJoe, and Marvel lines, at least one of which will appeal to most adult collectors.Dude, you're becoming my favorite reactionary. :D


- How many ARC-170 exclusives are there again within a couple months of xmas? You say 2 or 3, reality says: zero. The non-exclusive Shadow ARC-170 has been on shelves since summer, and the only exclusive ARC-170 is the Wampa TRU one which has been on shelves for over a YEAR.
- When were the Droid Factory exclusives out? You say a couple months from xmas, reality: the last day of Comic-Con, July.
- When did the exclusive Rancor hit shelves? You said "within a couple of months of Christmas", reality: Spring.
- Last couple months for the Octuptarra? Reality: late summer.
- Last couple months for the X-wing? Reality: late summer, though I'll give you this one trickled out a little slowly.
- Y-wing in September? I got mine with birthday money in August.

And now it's SW's fault for having product on shelves the same time as other lines? Hasbro should only focus on 1 adult-collector-themed line per quarter or something?


That's a LOT of money for them to ask for all at once. It might be if it were true.


In this economy, with the price hike on all the basic Hasbro toys, it's even worse. Never mind the additional expenses most families have to deal with around Christmas, what with that crazy desire to buy things for other people and decorate and all.

At some point, consumers have to, somehow, tell Hasbro that it's too much, too fast. It's not that we don't want this stuff, but all at once, at the end of the year--it's tough to do.Well, aside from your arbitrary blaming of the end of the year for this stuff - some of which will have shelf life into 2010 - not all of it is meant for the same audiences. And a lot of the exclusives this year have been pretty good, to boot. Would you rather not see them made at all? What would that accomplish? Yes, the economy is making collecting hard, but exclusives taking down the main line? I don't buy it for a second. They are a small fish in a much bigger pond within the brand.



I for one welcome the break and won't be buying very much until August. I support the line with my purchases and buy everything full price for the most part and buy the things that really interest me.

I guess the worst that could happpen is that the toy line could end and they won't make any new movie collectibles for a while. I don't know if that is such a horrible terrible thing. We number into the thousands of figures, more vehicles than we could have hoped for, and have moved past the movies into expanded universe to get things we never dreamed would be made. Not bad for 15 years of steady collecting.

I say this because I think the line is fine. There is still a buck to be made and we will see a lot more before it is over. But when it is over I kind of hope it is abrupt instead of having things trickle out and be hard to find.

Bottom line, we just got the ice cream maker guy from ESB. That is an official we are coming to the end of everything the line has to offer.The quality of main characters is something I'm always looking for them to address. There are still tons of old figures that need updating, that's what I'm in for. Saga Legends isn't that line though, it's just exploiting the benefits of existing popular character tooling, it's a pure-profit line for Hasbro so it can afford to overwhelm, but that's selling the future for the now. You guys who want the line to die make no sense to me, if you don't like it, walk away. But for the collectors who want to stick with it, you make it seem like a burden when it's not, why should we have to suffer simply because you don't want to collect anymore?


Careful with that kind of talk, Dark Marble. I said something similar a month or so ago in another thread and dang near got nailed to a tree because of it."Wah". :p Get over it. You didn't make your point properly, I replied to what you said, not what you later say you meant because I didn't know what you intended, only what you said. It's a discussion about the future of the line, what kind of collectors want it to go away? To me, it seems like only the selfish kind who are too weak to walk away from something they no longer have interest in but are addicted to. How is that not a fair point?



I suspect not many collectors spend the big money anymore......I still support the line:

Paid full price for BMF
Full price on two Rancors
Full price on the Dewbacks from Walmart
Full price on the TRU Inceptor and Target Tie

Did pass on the At-St, but it sold out everywhere near me....

Personally, it doesnt phase me that Hasbro has the line on hold or whatever...they release too much garbage these days and hate 70% of the figure choicesYou bought 2 of the TPM Dewback and none of the AT-ST? How come?

I will follow your lead and talk about when I put my money where my mouth is:
- full price BMF
- full price Rancor
- full price AT-ST
- full price Target TIE
- full price Clone Wars Y-wing
- full price Obi-Wan TPM Force FX Lightsaber
- full price Galactic Heroes Vader's TIE
- full price G.Heroes Snowspeeder
- full price Rishi Moon Outpost Attack battle pack
- full price Geonosis Assault battle pack
- full price SWTF Magnaguard / Manga Fighter
- full price + shipping last new vehicles of Titanium Series
- sale price Octuptarra Droid
- clearance price AT-TE

Each one sends a statement - good and bad alike - on what I want and what I'm willing to spend. I don't think the line will survive into 2011 unfortunately, collectors are tightwads who don't see how $43 for the AT-ST is reasonable and get reactionary when the end of the year comes like much of this stuff wasn't there for months ahead of time, and then these long delays just clobber collector drive to boot. Pacing and momentum are really suffering these last few years, and Saga Legends isn't the line to salvage that.



That's exactly it. Everything at once has made it almost impossible to keep up. Unless you have a 6 figure income and no kids or mortgage, it's hard to justify that much money over such a short period of time. The worst part is, it looks like they're going to do the same thing to us again next year. Rather than trying to support a line I have no interest in by throwing money away on legends figures I already bought enough of the first time around, I'll be saving my dollars for when the flood gates reopen next fall. Not that Chux's claim is entirely correct, as I addressed above, but what exclusives did you actually want that came out in the last half of this year? Don't tell me whether or not you bought them, just list the exclusives you wanted. Let's see how many of them collectors wanted. I'll go to my list and add up the exclusives and bigger-ticket items from that period. I get: $232, not counting the $120 for the Obi-Wan TPM Force FX saber. As a collector, that's not exactly bonkers money for the last 6 months of exclusives and big-ticket items. Yes, I have no kids and no mortgage, but it didn't take a 6-figure income to get those items either. That's part of collecting. I spend maybe $400 a year on basic figures as well, but nobody seems to be kvetching about that like it's craaaazy of Hasbro to release keep releasing basic figures (except a few folks who post about how they want the line to die, but that silliness stems from self-loathing :p).


As far as the exclusives go. I had no trouble justifying $30 for the dewback or $43 for the AT-ST. The build a droid walmart exclusives were an insult at $17 a piece. Especially since we got pretty much the same thing from Target for $12 each. I also happily laid out the money for the TIE Int and the Wedge X-wing. I probably would have eventually bought the gunship at full price (if I hadn't just spent over $500 on other exclusives and wave after wave of figures) but I found it on sale first. I would have never bought the turbo tank at full price. It just didn't interest me enough to justify the money so I figure Hasbro moved one more until than they would have otherwise when I bought it on sale. Totally! I didn't buy the Dewback or TIE Interceptor, I didn't like the former's TPM design and I do feel the latter is overpriced, but the concept is solid - they make a lot of exclusives that are a justifiable price, and the ones that aren't should stand out like a sore thumb a la Droid Factory $17 packs. And then they make stuff that is worth something but not as much as they're charging like the Octuptarra Droid (decent at $28). It's about choosing what the individual wants and is willing to spend on that item, what seems fair. So many collectors don't look at the AT-ST as being "more than" the previous version, they only see it in their mind's eye and not for what it really is, then complain how it's overpriced and they don't want it.


For me, the bottom line is that if the pacing. It's been ridiculous since comic-con and then we'll have a whole lot of nothing for many months. I wonder how many more collectors Hasbro will lose because they find other (better) uses for their disposable income in the interim?Pacing has been a huge problem since the Saga line, but '08 and '09 have pushed it to new lows, and '10 looks to be even worse.



If I am going to buy some legends they need to make them better. I wanted to buy the new Han Solo mynock hunt figure, but the body sculpt looked horrible.Bingo!


This break coming up is going to be for me Clone Wars, catching up after Hot Toys Iron Man mk 3 battle damaged, and Transformers. Saga Legends so far seems to offer me absolutely nothing during the break.

El Chuxter
12-31-2009, 08:39 PM
Okay, I was wrong about the ARC-170. I have seen it (and overpriced it is) at both Target and Wal-Mart, and must've mixed up its exclusive status with the Gunship, assuming it was two since I'd seen ARC-170s at different stores. (The sheer number of ARC-170 and Gunship redecos is getting really absurd, and tough to keep up with if you don't collect them.) I'll totally admit I was wrong on that one.

JT, I said the Rancor was from earlier in the year, not the months before Christmas. I never saw the X-Wing, Y-Wing, or Octuparra until the last couple of months, and, though I saw the Droid Factory sets earlier, didn't see them in any numbers until recently. You might've found some earlier, but I didn't. When it seems all the stores wait to put everything on the shelves, exclusive and mainline, until toward the end of the year, it hurts the wallet. A lot more of the long-term collectors, who've been going at it since 1995, have more financial obligations now... especially those of us with kids who expect their own toys at Christmas. And if people are losing their jobs or their hours at their jobs, it's even tougher.

I don't dislike the amount of product, but, when both the amount and costs keep going up, it is getting tough for a lot of people. I'm not saying that Hasbro shouldn't make things, but to make a lot of stuff for a lot of money, in a retail system where stores want as fast a turnaround as possible and are willing to clearance items after only a few weeks in many cases, it doesn't make sense to say, "Well, you're not buying it, so obviously you're not interested, and we're going to put the line on hiatus for more than half a year."

morpheus282
12-31-2009, 09:26 PM
"Wah". :p Get over it. You didn't make your point properly, I replied to what you said, not what you later say you meant because I didn't know what you intended, only what you said. It's a discussion about the future of the line, what kind of collectors want it to go away? To me, it seems like only the selfish kind who are too weak to walk away from something they no longer have interest in but are addicted to. How is that not a fair point?


Maybe I wasn't clear on the fact that I'm not ready to march outside Hasbro HQ with a torch and pitchfork yelling "death to the Star Wars line". I'll try to make my point better next time. I for one can walk away from collecting. I did it from 2000 - 2003 when I went back to school to finish my BS. I did it again for a time 2005, and again in 2007. I keep coming back because I enjoy the hobby, not because I'm addicted. If the line ends tomorrow, I'll be ok. I'll keep picking up items on the secondary market that I missed (like the sandcrawler) and keep discussing the hobby in forums such as this. I'll also be ready for the 2020 revival of the line. I have no desire to inflict pain on others by wishing death on the line for my own good. Star Wars is the only line I collect. I'm happy that others may have other lines to fall back on between now and August, but I won't be buying anything. Again, I don't want it to go away, but I will have other things going on while it's on hiatus and should they decide to cancel it I'll still have plenty to look for at conventions and on eBay.

Old Fossil
01-01-2010, 02:30 AM
This I don't get. The Dewback is larger and more articulated than the original which was $15 but that was 12 years ago and had movie support. Granted, I don't think this new Dewback is all that good, but that's due to my distaste for the new design edict from LFL, not Hasbro's work. Some of the exclusives this year have been high, some haven't. The Rancor was first a good price then jumped $10. The AT-ST is not an unreasonable price IMO, that thing is way bigger than the original and far more articulated and detailed, plus it comes with a figure. The Octuptarra Droid is bigger than a standard vehicle as well, so it's not surprising the price is higher. The question in my mind isn't whether or not the exclusives are too expensive, IMO most are within normal parameters, but whether there's a market for this stuff that will pay to own it.

I think there is a market, but the costs to own this stuff (whatever the merits of the items themselves) are prohibitive in this economy and are killing the collector-targeted exclusives. That, plus the simple fact of the "exclusive" fad. I want to be able to find a Dewback at someplace else besides Wal-Mart. Hunting overpriced exclusives has been a frustrating aspect of this hobby for years, and it is proved unsustainable by us.


I don't follow the thinking here. We don't support the line strongly anymore so we should support a line that's not geared towards us? Next holiday, we'll be lucky if there's ANY non-Clone Wars product on the shelves. Basic figures didn't sell that great, that's why Legacy sales are at the bottom and why the line is going on hiatus for 8 months.

I do not agree that the line is not geared towards us, nor that basic figures didn't sell that great. There are exceptions, obviously, like Saesee Tiin and Plo Koon. Saga Legends offers core characters and troop builders. How can that not have something to offer us? Or are we all just interested in clone pilot variations and Jabba's Palace aliens?


Kids aren't part of the line anymore, they're only into Clone Wars apparently.

My own experience, which I have heard repeated often here, is that kids are still a viable part of the support for Saga Legends. I understand that you may have different observations.


SL is popular with retailers because they had seen past sales, but that doesn't mean it sold well in the now, only they hoped it would based on past sales.

True, that's simple enough to understand. I'd like to see greater collector support for Legends, now that Legacy is on the back burner. It may happen naturally, but I think a strong demand for Legends in the interim will signal to Hasbro that there is much life (and profit, for them) left in the non-Clone Wars line.


If we buy what we don't really want, then we'll get more of that, not more of what we do want.

I have to admit, that is a risk, but one we should be willing to take to ensure the line as a whole continues.


What's easy on the budget about buying stuff one doesn't want?

I suppose spending $7-$8 every couple of weeks to support my hobby in a difficult time is acceptable in my mind. I can understand it is not a universal feeling. It is much easier to do than to continue to support what is IMO ridiculously overpriced store exclusives; and as I've said before, I believe it to be more important to show strong support for the basic figure line, as it is the engine that drives the 3/34" Star Wars Hasbro line.


Look at the '09 Saga Legends wave currently shipping, there are 3 revisions of this assortment, totaling 18 figures:


Super Battle Droid - I'm unimpressed with this mold, it's got an odd deco, could use more articulation, and wilts too easily.
Plo Koon - pegs are overloaded on this guy, I have no more use for this ROTS mold.
Clone Trooper - I've never liked the sad puppy Ep 2 clone, but I did get what I needed over the last few years.
Obi-Wan Kenobi (Mustafar) - a fair figure, but I'm not a fan of ROTS and already bought this one. Maybe I could buy an extra to headswap with Ep 1 and 2 Obi-Wan, but I'm not sure their outfits are close enough.
Anakin Skywalker (Darth Vader) - See previous, minus the interest to buy any more.
Shock Trooper - I never liked this variant.
501st Clone Trooper - This one isn't as bad, but I didn't feel compelled to buy it before and still don't.
Darth Maul - Inferior decade-old mold rehashed to work with a vehicle nobody liked, now painted even worse.
Clone Trooper (Episode III) - a good figure but one I've bought plenty of over the last 4 years. I'm done with this guy, it's clone overload.
Sandtrooper - the VOTC Stormie in black pauldron gear, so it's inaccurate as 2 figures instead of 1. I prefer the TAC Stormie mold now, this one has that big ugly ball joint neck that shows, and the TAC sculpt is cleaner overall. I might buy another one of these mainly out of pity, but what is the point of a clean sandtrooper?
Han Solo - Look, I dug this figure in POTJ, but gas mask or no, it's way outdated now with its simplistic design and modest articulation. And now its paint has surprise-eyes? Not tempting.
Chewbacca - VOTC Chewie with a new added gas mask. It's an ok figure, but I just got a new, more versatile ANH-hair Chewie with the Falcon, and ROTJ Chewie with pilot headset. I don't need another ROTJ Chewie... ever. Maybe I'll buy one to go with the AT-ST, but again, this would be a pity buy.
R2-D2 - a cute figure for kids, but utterly useless for collectors, and way overproduced. This frankensteined mold has modern legs but a body sculpt from 11 years ago with a non-movable dome and inaccurate orange LED radar eye. This is among the last R2s I ever want to buy again, I have one, it's cute, but that's it.
Saesee Tiin -AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I think I've said enough on this subject. Let's just say there's no chance I am going to pity-buy this figure. And it's pegwarming hard, so I'm not alone there.
C-3PO - I liked this mold enough to buy 2 when it came out, but it's been easily available for a while, and I just don't think it's good enough to warrant buying more of. I want a better C-3PO than this thing can deliver
Yoda with Kybuck - I didn't go for it when it first came out, and I still don't dig it.
Darth Vader - aka Captain Inevitable. Because yeah, if there's one thing we collectors are missing, it's this guy. So what if he's been released half a dozen different previous ways and is inferior in every way to the latest version, which itself could be better? I'm done buying 500th Vader.
Luke Skywalker (X-wing Pilot) - I liked this SL repaint of the figure enough to buy it last year, but how many Luke X-wings does one guy need?

This is not an inspiring line to support, there's very little offered to collectors, very little that I find easy to support. The army builders are all prequels save 1 Sandtrooper that converts to the VOTC Stormie which is the inferior version of the character, and is somewhat useless as a sandtrooper since he's a clean variant. The OT main characters are poorly represented, and there's a lot of holes in the PT main guys as well. Basically, this is an ROTS wave 4 years+ after that film came out, the support for it overall has waned and SL hasn't caught up with the times. If there was something better offered in the upcoming SL line, I might support that, but this here is not viable from any perspective, it's like a leftovers line rather than true legends of the SW line.

I share many of your sentiments on most points, save where the troopers are concerned. But it is what we have for a basic figure line, though hopefully Hasbro will revise the assortment in the coming year. (Have they been asked about Saga Legends in 2010, regarding figure choices? I don't recall seeing a question.)


I didn't say Sandtrooper, I said Stormtrooper. They are different armor designs. I am sick of clean sandtroopers, I am kinda tired of buying sandtroopers at all anymore, they're not getting better the way the Stormie did with the TAC figure. And I mentioned this figures issues above as well.

I know. I constantly underestimate the attention to detail of my fellow collectors.:) I have bought a couple of SL Sandtroopers to use as Stormies in my dioramas, but that's just me.


And BTW, $7.49 to $8.64 for these Soggy Legends is a joke, most of them we bought for $6 only a few years ago. These are not the cream of the crop figures.

Can't argue with you there. They were much easier to buy at WM before Xmas, when they were an even $6. But everything is more expensive these days, except movie GI Joe figures. And in my opinion, the SL figures are more worth it than comparable figures, especially when purchased as gifts for children -- a small price to pay to help further the Saga.


If the product moves at full price, even late, they'll notice. But exclusives aren't going to bury the line, each retailer sets up those deals separately, it just dents it. The failure of 2008 TLC overall seems to be what's really killing the line, and the failure of non-exclusives like Comic Packs, Evolutions, stuff that too much faith was put into during a long break on SW and price increases.

They will not notice after the end of the financial period. They are not looking at Q1 2010, they are looking at Q4 2009, which for many ends on Jan. 3. I believe there will be a tremendous drawback in store exclusives next year, but (like you) I don't believe it will kill the line. What would kill the line would be soft sales in the basic figure line, and that is where we can help see that sales are "strong, strong, strong!" (to quote Smaug. I'm reading The Hobbit to my daughter.)


I don't think this is correct. Hasbro and retailers treat Saga Legends as a separate entity from Legacy. SL is not the savior as your desperate tone here claims. If TPTB see SL as separate, then buying stuff we really don't want for too much money isn't going to send any message other than "we are suckers who will buy anything". Buying SL for the sake of sending a message is not sending the message that we want Legacy - these aren't good enough movie figures to sell that concept.

Here I have to refer to you:


I think the idea is that SL and Legacy are both "movie" lines and retailers need to know there are still movie buying audiences out there.

I understand the retailer's view of separate lines, but your original thought here underscores the reality of it. To kids, and the general public, they are not separate, they are just Star Wars figures. I don't think that they aren't good enough movie figures, though; there are some real quality figures in SL, even if they are ubiquitous. I mean, is Jeremoch Colton better than SL Darth Vader??? (IF you can find a SL Darth Vader, that is; Colton is easily had these days.)

Mad Slanted Powers
01-01-2010, 02:42 AM
II mean, is Jeremoch Colton better than SL Darth Vader??? (IF you can find a SL Darth Vader, that is; Colton is easily had these days.)I've yet to see that wave, except for Plo Koon and maybe some repacked figures. My Plo Koon has a HK-50 piece though instead of a YVH-1 piece.

Phantom-like Menace
01-01-2010, 07:59 AM
All I'll say to this discussion is that I think JT's shamed me into getting an AT-ST or two. Thanks for that.:rolleyes:;)

Well, I'll add one more thing: too often I find I desperately search for an exclusive hoping to find it. I don't see it for the longest time, but then all of a sudden I see fifty on them on an endcap clearanced straight out of the backroom. Almost all the Order 66 two packs I got were like this, especially the first run of them. Target does that more often than Wal-Mart, but Wal-Mart here did it most recently with the Droid Factory figures.

2-1B
01-01-2010, 11:21 AM
I don't even collect figures anymore...but I also feel like buying an AT-ST out of guilt. :D

Mr. JabbaJohnL
01-01-2010, 02:49 PM
I think there is a market, but the costs to own this stuff (whatever the merits of the items themselves) are prohibitive in this economy and are killing the collector-targeted exclusives. That, plus the simple fact of the "exclusive" fad. I want to be able to find a Dewback at someplace else besides Wal-Mart. Hunting overpriced exclusives has been a frustrating aspect of this hobby for years, and it is proved unsustainable by us.
It's not a "fad", it's a way to get items to us that would likely not sell on a wider basis. If not for exclusives, we wouldn't be able to even have a new Dewback (or AT-ST, or, Octuptarra, or Wedge's X-wing, etc.) at all. You say you want to be able to find a Dewback elsewhere, but there are a ton of them sitting on the shelves at a local Walmart, so clearly they wouldn't have been viable as a wide release. It is also supposed to help the stores by offering something that no other store has, thus increasing traffic into those specific stores. These exclusive programs are worked out as a way to benefit everybody - more items for collectors, more traffic for the stores, and more money for Hasbro. The lower runs of these items results in them being more expensive than other items, though it often seems that either Hasbro or the retailers increases the price too much because they can. But that's the reality of the line, and when everything else is getting more expensive, it makes sense that exclusives would follow suit.


I do not agree that the line is not geared towards us, nor that basic figures didn't sell that great. There are exceptions, obviously, like Saesee Tiin and Plo Koon. Saga Legends offers core characters and troop builders. How can that not have something to offer us? Or are we all just interested in clone pilot variations and Jabba's Palace aliens?
Saga Legends may occasionally offer collectors something we want, but it is first and foremost geared at kids and casual collectors. We bought these core character figures when they were first released years ago, so the core character repacks are useless to us. The line needs to keep Vader, Anakin, Obi-Wan, Luke, and Yoda in the line rotation, since those are the characters that newcomers are going to want, not Yarna or Leesub Sirln. And while many collectors do like army builders, I already used the Saga Legends line to get a ton of troopers over the past few years when they were more affordable, and now $7.49 is a little high for me to be going clone crazy all the time. Perhaps during the hiatus I'll get more clones and SBDs, but when new stuff is coming all the time, I'd rather spend the money on that. (I don't really mind the price when it buys an all-new, high-quality basic figure, but six-year-old repacks are tougher to swallow.) Some figures are selling well, but too many are not; that's why they had to cut back on the number of figures they produce, yet as I said before, the ROTJ wave is still stinking up the pegs at Targets here. Stores can move mountains of Clone Wars figures, but just a few too many cases of Droid Factory figures and they get stuck. Around here, Legends seems to be somewhere in the middle.


I suppose spending $7-$8 every couple of weeks to support my hobby in a difficult time is acceptable in my mind. I can understand it is not a universal feeling. It is much easier to do than to continue to support what is IMO ridiculously overpriced store exclusives; and as I've said before, I believe it to be more important to show strong support for the basic figure line, as it is the engine that drives the 3/34" Star Wars Hasbro line.
The fact that Droid Factory, Saga Legends, and The Clone Wars are three different SKUs means Hasbro looks at them as different lines altogether. I know that Droid Factory and Saga Legends, both under the Legacy Collection banner, are both realistic movie-based lines, but buying Legends will only support that one line, not the other. I already suggested buying exclusives to show support for the more collector-oriented segment of the brand, which you essentially said you were unable (or unwilling) to do so.


What would kill the line would be soft sales in the basic figure line, and that is where we can help see that sales are "strong, strong, strong!" (to quote Smaug. I'm reading The Hobbit to my daughter.)
...
I understand the retailer's view of separate lines, but your original thought here underscores the reality of it. To kids, and the general public, they are not separate, they are just Star Wars figures.
So, to more directly help out the Droid Factory line (or whatever it will be called next fall), you should really, truly be buying those figures instead. Do you have them all? If not, then I suggest you track them down instead of wasting your money and energy on Saga Legends. Certainly you still see an Agen Kolar or Jeremoch Colton here and there, and you can't be lacking for Nien Nunb. So get those instead. Hell, if you see a Yarna or Breha Organa that Hasbro missed, please buy them. And you say you understand that the Hasbro and the retailers know that Droid Factory and Legends are two separate entities, but that common people don't; we, however, do, and need to support the Droid Factory line, NOT the Saga Legends line, since that is what will really help us all.

Devo
01-01-2010, 05:39 PM
As I'm in Ireland and Hasbro, in the best and in the worst of times, probably doesn't give much of a crap what is and isn't available here I don't have to worry about the fact that I'm not buying saga legends. I gave up the hunt years ago and only venture out occasionally to find toys (my last hunt happened upon the new TIE and TIE interceptor though). Mostly I buy from american online retailers or UK online retailers and I'm certainly not going to be ordering any saga legends crap.

I'm buying only Legacy basic figures and Legacy exclusives. I'm not terribly picky about price, if its an OT Battlepack containing new stuff I'm all over it. So I don't wait for price reductions unless it is just clearly a ridiculous price. I was looking to get the Sarlacc BP and BBTS were selling it for over a $100. I looked elsewhere. Rare case though.

Anyway the second half of 09 has plunged me into debt so I for one am relieved about this break until August. I need to cut back on something in '10, probably I'll reduce on Hot Toys figures to give me a chance to clear my CC. They make it tough though. No way I can miss their T2 figure(s).

Blue2th
01-01-2010, 07:18 PM
So, to more directly help out the Droid Factory line (or whatever it will be called next fall), you should really, truly be buying those figures instead. Do you have them all? If not, then I suggest you track them down instead of wasting your money and energy on Saga Legends. Certainly you still see an Agen Kolar or Jeremoch Colton here and there, and you can't be lacking for Nien Nunb. So get those instead. Hell, if you see a Yarna or Breha Organa that Hasbro missed, please buy them. And you say you understand that the Hasbro and the retailers know that Droid Factory and Legends are two separate entities, but that common people don't; we, however, do, and need to support the Droid Factory line, NOT the Saga Legends line, since that is what will really help us all.

I agree, at least go out and buy figures you don't have is better than supporting the Legends line is my reasoning also.
If you want another side of this coin, buy these figures for selfish motives. You would be surprised how much an obscure figure will go for on the secondary market when they are scarce. This especially happens after a few years.
Some if not most obscure figures are just not viable for Hasbro to produce again. Many are plentiful now but in the future I have doubts that any will be made again (Cantina Aliens, Jabba's Denizens)
Especially now when the sculpting and articulation is at a peak. Even the Ice Cream Maker Guy has superior articulation to many of the regurge Legends figures.

I used to buy two of every figure, one to open, one to keep on the card.
When I finally decided I was a loose collector and unload the carded ones, I opened them and sold them loose "freshly opened" and the figures that got the most money were the obscure ones people hadn't seen in a few years. Usually the figures produced one time. This also goes for many of the Clones produced in various obscure battalion colors back in Saga II days.

It's just logical to support Hasbro with the "one of every figure" mentality IMO.

DarkArtist
01-02-2010, 04:40 PM
for me the only legends that I would pick up would be extra Clones for customs... I'm thinking that now that my work station is up and ready might seriously start customizing some of the Clones so that they look similiar to the Clone Wars versions but more realistic.

love the looks of Rex, Gree and a few others so I'm planning on doing some custom work and seeing what happens. going to start with Rex and Gree first and go from there.

Val Da Car
01-02-2010, 07:38 PM
After not being able to find Rum Sleg until the 3rd week of December I found him bundled (with Legends) at 2 for 1 pricing at Target & Walmart has the Spacetrooper/Han & Luke in StormTrooper wave.

If the Marketing group knew Merchandising was doing this they would not seem so out of touch with their answers and actions.

Old Fossil
01-02-2010, 08:54 PM
It's not a "fad", it's a way to get items to us that would likely not sell on a wider basis. If not for exclusives, we wouldn't be able to even have a new Dewback (or AT-ST, or, Octuptarra, or Wedge's X-wing, etc.) at all. You say you want to be able to find a Dewback elsewhere, but there are a ton of them sitting on the shelves at a local Walmart, so clearly they wouldn't have been viable as a wide release. It is also supposed to help the stores by offering something that no other store has, thus increasing traffic into those specific stores. These exclusive programs are worked out as a way to benefit everybody - more items for collectors, more traffic for the stores, and more money for Hasbro. The lower runs of these items results in them being more expensive than other items, though it often seems that either Hasbro or the retailers increases the price too much because they can. But that's the reality of the line, and when everything else is getting more expensive, it makes sense that exclusives would follow suit.

I disagree, it IS a fad of sorts, to my mind. There have never been so many exclusives. It worked OK for some stores some years ago, so others have jumped on the bandwagon. And like all fads, it will (and is) fall out of favor, and will end. I understand the intention of exclusives -- I've been collecting the modern line since its inception -- but they are no longer profitable to the retailer, or generally affordable to the collector or parent.



We bought these core character figures when they were first released years ago, so the core character repacks are useless to us.

I don't believe they are useless to us, not completely.


The fact that Droid Factory, Saga Legends, and The Clone Wars are three different SKUs means Hasbro looks at them as different lines altogether. I know that Droid Factory and Saga Legends, both under the Legacy Collection banner, are both realistic movie-based lines, but buying Legends will only support that one line, not the other. I already suggested buying exclusives to show support for the more collector-oriented segment of the brand, which you essentially said you were unable (or unwilling) to do so.

Here's the thing: I buy Legacy. I bought exclusives in the past, and the Dewback this year. But I am looking at the next eight months, as I have said several times already, not just this week or this month. There is a time ahead when even Legacy will dry up in most markets (yours excepted, apparently). Overpriced exclusives from 2009 are being quickly clearanced and moved out. So we will largely have one venue -- again, let me be specific, over the next eight months -- to support the line, and that will be Saga Legends.



So, to more directly help out the Droid Factory line (or whatever it will be called next fall), you should really, truly be buying those figures instead. Do you have them all? If not, then I suggest you track them down instead of wasting your money and energy on Saga Legends. Certainly you still see an Agen Kolar or Jeremoch Colton here and there, and you can't be lacking for Nien Nunb. So get those instead. Hell, if you see a Yarna or Breha Organa that Hasbro missed, please buy them. And you say you understand that the Hasbro and the retailers know that Droid Factory and Legends are two separate entities, but that common people don't; we, however, do, and need to support the Droid Factory line, NOT the Saga Legends line, since that is what will really help us all.

I bought, and continue to buy Legacy. I bought another ANH Obi-Wan just yesterday. I plan on buying more Legacy, concurrently with Legends. But again, I am looking ahead to what will be available in the coming months, not just what is on the pegs right now. After the EU wave, we will be treated to mostly leftovers from old Legacy waves, and Saga Legends. I wil support both, but given Hasbro's putting Legacy on the back burner for eight months (which I believe may actually be the death knell for a solely collector-focused line), I see it vitally important that we support (as we can) the only non-animated series still shipping, which is Saga Legends.

Sure, go ahead and buy remaining Legacy product. I know I will. But I believe Hasbro has already made up their mind on Legacy (based off what they say are lackluster sales figures from 2008 and 2009), and that they plan on giving it extremely short shrift in the future, whatever sales Legacy generates in the next eight months. Otherwise, they would not have put the line on hiatus. I would advise any one of us here to buy what Legacy they find on the pegs in the next few months, as they are quality figures of mostly background characters that we will likely never see in such quantities again. Meanwhile, support the line that is still shipping, too -- Saga Legends.

JetsAndHeels
01-02-2010, 10:27 PM
I prefer Legacy myself, but I think this will be the ideal time for me, personally, to buy more clones and perhaps do some army building. That means I will probably be buying more saga legends in the near future.

And in all honesty, we are going to be having some serious toy withdrawals during the Legacy hiatus. :)

Mr. JabbaJohnL
01-03-2010, 03:51 PM
I don't believe they are useless to us, not completely.
Well, I already have at least one of all 19 2009 Saga Legends figures in their original incarnations, and in some cases, multiples. If you buy other lines, like comic packs or battle packs, you are bound to have several of these exact figures. I mean, could I buy a Legends Darth Maul to go in the Sith Infiltrator, never to be seen again? Sure, but it doesn't seem worth it to me. I set up my displays in dioramas, and I have so many versions of these characters that I sometimes don't even know what to do with them. So, for me, re-buying these figures that I already have isn't what I want to do.


I bought, and continue to buy Legacy. I bought another ANH Obi-Wan just yesterday. I plan on buying more Legacy, concurrently with Legends. But again, I am looking ahead to what will be available in the coming months, not just what is on the pegs right now. After the EU wave, we will be treated to mostly leftovers from old Legacy waves, and Saga Legends. I wil support both, but given Hasbro's putting Legacy on the back burner for eight months (which I believe may actually be the death knell for a solely collector-focused line), I see it vitally important that we support (as we can) the only non-animated series still shipping, which is Saga Legends.

Sure, go ahead and buy remaining Legacy product. I know I will. But I believe Hasbro has already made up their mind on Legacy (based off what they say are lackluster sales figures from 2008 and 2009), and that they plan on giving it extremely short shrift in the future, whatever sales Legacy generates in the next eight months. Otherwise, they would not have put the line on hiatus. I would advise any one of us here to buy what Legacy they find on the pegs in the next few months, as they are quality figures of mostly background characters that we will likely never see in such quantities again. Meanwhile, support the line that is still shipping, too -- Saga Legends.
I know your heart is in the right place, and you're trying to do the right thing, which is great. But, as you said, Hasbro has already made up their minds on the Legacy Droid Factory figures - but they've also made up their minds on Legends, which they see as extremely profitable. Since Legends are already moving and Hasbro is going forward with them anyway, I just think buying more Legends is going to only support Legends and nothing else. But clearly you see it differently, and you are free to spend your money as you wish. I just suggest that, when you look to buy a figure to support the line, you wait on buying Saga Legends until your stores are 100% devoid of Legacy figures. Legends will continue on with us or without us - it's Legacy that needs help.

RENDAR LIVES
01-03-2010, 04:59 PM
Everyone has different preferences. Some people like cantina aliens, others like EU and everyone seems to be sick to death of core movie characters done over and over again. I think the EU and background characters would thrive more if not pushed out all at once but Hasbro is so hell bent on these themed waves.

The late releases and all at once are crippling. I have found ESB waves but little to nothing beyond that since a few weeks before Christmas. Many stores won't order and several retailers have just seemed to lump everything onto the few pegs that are available where before the holiday there were designated sections for each collection.

At my local Walmart (#2198) the skus/skns on the pegs are listed with character labels rather than assortments. Like "Bespin Han Solo Saga Legends" or "Echo Clone Trooper Clone Wars". I rarely pay attention to this but I did notice it and if that's how they are logging these figures into the computer then the sales data is gonna show Hasbro that Bespin Hans and Clone Echos are selling like hotcakes because every figure purchased will be listed under these Skus/skins in the Walmart computer. I have pics on my phone but lost my USB cable so if a mod wants to pm me a number I can send picture mail for proof or better detail of what the skn/sku says. I plan on paying closer attention to this on my trips to Target and Walmart to see just how unreliable Hasbros vaunted sales data is.

I think the biggest fault is at the retail level. They control what they purchase and it controls what you purchase if you allow yourself to be a consumer *****. The retailers are screwing crap up and thier employees don't care enough to stock them right in the first place let alone list the correct skns/skus.

Star Wars will always sell itself. There is no other worldwide market for collectors and toys like SW. If the line flops they will just come up with a new line. they will not just give up on making SW toys altogether. With the hiatus I will gladly protest my dismay. If I see something cool I want to pick up from SL or CW I will but at this point even purchasing a Legacy figure from my Walmart wont let Hasbro know what figures I as a consumer are interested in.

RENDAR LIVES
01-03-2010, 05:10 PM
I'd also like to add that if the exclusive vehicles came without figures and were then 5 to ten bucks cheaper it would be an easier sell for me. I already have tons of figures and a crappy jedi Luke (wich I have plenty of) doesn't help sell the rancor for me.

I have an original ARC-170 that I purchased for $35 and have seen it re-released each time at a higher price. Similar to the Gunship. I realize they have remolded the TIE Interceptor but I cannot justify paying $50 for something that was once only $20 or would be $25 if they made an all new vehicle such as the CW Jedi starfighters or Magna Guard fighters. How does that even happen? How does an all new mold cost less than something redone 3 times? RIP OFF!!!

Whatever happened to the sound fx and light up blasters that made these vehicles so sweet to begin with? Firing missiles are cool and I realize inflation is a ***** but I feel I am getting less for my money these days as far as the vehicles are concerned. I feel the opposite as far as figures go because the SA seems more standard and is still significantly chaeper than what Hasbro was using as SRP on the vintage line.

I picked up the Corran Horn BAD two-pack even though it was just a new head sculpt. I would have loved to pick up the rest for the droids but couldn't justify $17 per droid since they are packed with re-issued figures. Not even re-tooled though Grievous's soft goods cape is a nice incentive. Now if Hasbro packed new figures or just packed the droids together as 2-packs I would have bought all of them. I'm glad I have Corran and Whistler is the best color scheme I have seen on an R2 unit IMO. I even bought 2 because I am a MISB and loose collector.

sith_killer_99
01-03-2010, 05:47 PM
Well, today I finally broke down and bought something Star Wars related from Hasbro.

I had the coupons printed and in my glove box, as I never know when I might find something for my daughter.

Well today I was at TRU and found a lone (beat up package) of "Disturbance at the Lars Homestead" I scanned the price, $29.98, with my $5.00 off coupon and after taxes I got the thing for $27 and change.

I then proceeded to break down further and bought a few figures, also with the coupon. I ended up getting:

Han Stormtrooper
Luke Stormtrooper
Scout Trooper
Spacetrooper
Sandtrooper

Anyway, I just thought I would share, though I think these are all "Legacy" and not "Legends" or whatever, I can't really keep it all straight any more.

All I know is that I like all the OT army builder stuff and my daughter likes all the new Clone Wars stuff.:laugh:

morpheus282
01-03-2010, 06:47 PM
I just got back from Walmart and found five of the Legacy figures on the pegs, all with YVH-1 parts. 2 Plo Koon, 2 Agen Kolar, and 1 Han Solo repack from the ANH wave. There was approximaely 30 figures warming the pegs and the rest was CW. I got a wild hair and checked the stickers on the pegs, and only one suggested that it was reserved for Legacy out of the 40 or so pegs in the display. Six of the others were labeled as Legends and the rest CW.

I'm really looking forward to what Hasbro has to show at toy fair. It's going to be hard for me to actually spend money on toys until August unless they change their minds and actually put something other than CW on the shelf.

Old Fossil
01-03-2010, 06:58 PM
Well, I already have at least one of all 19 2009 Saga Legends figures in their original incarnations, and in some cases, multiples. If you buy other lines, like comic packs or battle packs, you are bound to have several of these exact figures. I mean, could I buy a Legends Darth Maul to go in the Sith Infiltrator, never to be seen again? Sure, but it doesn't seem worth it to me. I set up my displays in dioramas, and I have so many versions of these characters that I sometimes don't even know what to do with them. So, for me, re-buying these figures that I already have isn't what I want to do.

Obviously, Legends is not for you, and that's cool. That could change, though, if and when Hasbro revises the case assortments. Hopefully that will make Legends more appealing and useful to collectors.



I know your heart is in the right place, and you're trying to do the right thing, which is great.

Right back at you, my friend.:)


But, as you said, Hasbro has already made up their minds on the Legacy Droid Factory figures - but they've also made up their minds on Legends, which they see as extremely profitable. Since Legends are already moving and Hasbro is going forward with them anyway, I just think buying more Legends is going to only support Legends and nothing else. But clearly you see it differently, and you are free to spend your money as you wish. I just suggest that, when you look to buy a figure to support the line, you wait on buying Saga Legends until your stores are 100% devoid of Legacy figures. Legends will continue on with us or without us - it's Legacy that needs help.

Your last line is telling. I wonder if it is perhaps already beyond help. I would like to think otherwise; but consider the situation at your own locale -- pegs loaded down with Legacy. In my neck of the woods, it is the reverse, which I think is also the case in most markets.

On that note, I think it entirely possible that, come time to reset the modulars at the major retailers, no space will be alloted to Legacy. Likely I'm wrong and being a gloom-and-doom-er, but it is not unrealistic. I mean, with only one more case assortment scheduled for this month, it seems unlikely that retailers would want to devote space to a SKU that will have little if any support from Hasbro over the next eight months. I don't think it out of the question that Legacy could be clearanced (we are actually already seeing this, in those "blockbuster" bundles I keep hearing about), and vanish altogether.

gba88
01-03-2010, 07:10 PM
Hey Guys,
I hit 2 walmarts since new years.... one had a "side cap" -not on the end but same size, just around the side of an end :) There had to be at LEAST 10 or 12 cases of ALL saga legends just put out. The entire display was the same case x10 or 12.

The local wm put out about 2 cases of saga legends, and I haven't seen any new legacy since before Christmas. I'm thinking that at some locations, the phasing out of legacy has already begun :(

RENDAR LIVES
01-03-2010, 09:52 PM
I just got back from a few more Walmarts in my area. One had the correct skns/skus but the other (2642) had only Saga Legends tags. No wonder Hasbro thinks they are selling so well. The manager couldn't find anything but legends in the back because thats all he could scan and locate. The 3rd one 1855 had only tags for SL and CW. No Legacy whatsoever! Again the guy couldn't scan and locate to find them in the back. So when Hasbro complaines that the sales data shows a declined interest you can blame Walmart. With these store #s and my last post I hope you mods can send that to Hasbro for them to check out. I will check some Targets this week to see if they are having the same problem.

morpheus282
01-03-2010, 09:55 PM
Add WM #1320 to the list of locations, only a single peg is labeled anything but Legends or CW.

RENDAR LIVES
01-03-2010, 09:55 PM
Oh that 1 Walmart I didn't list a # for that has everything correctly placed and tagged is getting new ESB waves all the time and some from the ROTS though select figures like Cody and Rx-whatever I havent found yet. So like I said, the retail level is where the problem is.

RENDAR LIVES
01-03-2010, 10:00 PM
Awsome Morpheous! Lets crack down on these and not give up our passion without a fight.

Just to make it easy on the mods.

Walmart #2198
Walmart #2642
Walmart #1855
Walmart #1320

JediTricks
01-08-2010, 07:39 PM
Okay, I was wrong about the ARC-170. I have seen it (and overpriced it is) at both Target and Wal-Mart, and must've mixed up its exclusive status with the Gunship, assuming it was two since I'd seen ARC-170s at different stores. (The sheer number of ARC-170 and Gunship redecos is getting really absurd, and tough to keep up with if you don't collect them.) I'll totally admit I was wrong on that one.I have been tired of Gunship/ARC-170 redecos since their second releases each, but on those, it seems like the fans of the prequels are really hungry for the concept, so I don't fault them too much, I just avoid the product and hope it doesn't destroy my chances for better product (which the latest ARC-170 seems to have, unfortunately). I was a little tempted by the new CW Republic Gunship retool, but TRU's pricing killed it. I guess that makes it shades of gray.


JT, I said the Rancor was from earlier in the year, not the months before Christmas.That's how the section read though, that you were complaining of stuff out around Christmas:
"I'm not especially "up" on all the exclusives, but, within a couple of months of Christmas, we had..."


I never saw the X-Wing, Y-Wing, or Octuparra until the last couple of months, and, though I saw the Droid Factory sets earlier, didn't see them in any numbers until recently. You might've found some earlier, but I didn't. It seems like you are blaming the whole line for what you personally did and didn't see. For all I know, you didn't go looking for them because you had to work overtime or something. Or maybe your area stores just got bought up faster than normal, or stocked less, I don't know, but the whole line isn't out to get you.


A lot more of the long-term collectors, who've been going at it since 1995, have more financial obligations now... especially those of us with kids who expect their own toys at Christmas. And if people are losing their jobs or their hours at their jobs, it's even tougher.Yes, that is rough. Either those collectors have to sacrifice for their collecting, or more responsibly they have to sacrifice their collecting itself for their greater good, but all I'm saying is it's not the line's fault that good product is out when some collectors are broke.


I don't dislike the amount of product, but, when both the amount and costs keep going up, it is getting tough for a lot of people. I'm not saying that Hasbro shouldn't make things, but to make a lot of stuff for a lot of money, in a retail system where stores want as fast a turnaround as possible and are willing to clearance items after only a few weeks in many cases, it doesn't make sense to say, "Well, you're not buying it, so obviously you're not interested, and we're going to put the line on hiatus for more than half a year."Such are the risks of doing business in the internet age, you get it out there when you can and hope your intended market can get there. If this market can't afford it, then the line needs to be rethought so it can work. It sucks, but it's meant to protect the line from failing, which is meant to protect everybody including collectors who want it to continue.



Maybe I wasn't clear on the fact that I'm not ready to march outside Hasbro HQ with a torch and pitchfork yelling "death to the Star Wars line". I'll try to make my point better next time. I for one can walk away from collecting. I did it from 2000 - 2003 when I went back to school to finish my BS. I did it again for a time 2005, and again in 2007. I keep coming back because I enjoy the hobby, not because I'm addicted. If the line ends tomorrow, I'll be ok. I'll keep picking up items on the secondary market that I missed (like the sandcrawler) and keep discussing the hobby in forums such as this. I'll also be ready for the 2020 revival of the line. I have no desire to inflict pain on others by wishing death on the line for my own good. Star Wars is the only line I collect. I'm happy that others may have other lines to fall back on between now and August, but I won't be buying anything. Again, I don't want it to go away, but I will have other things going on while it's on hiatus and should they decide to cancel it I'll still have plenty to look for at conventions and on eBay.I understand, and my only point in my last reply was that you don't need to act martyred. With your post, it was a misunderstanding and everybody can move on now, you don't need to bring it up like you were unduly dumped upon. Aka "stop yer cryin'!!!" ;)



I think there is a market, but the costs to own this stuff (whatever the merits of the items themselves) are prohibitive in this economy and are killing the collector-targeted exclusives. That, plus the simple fact of the "exclusive" fad. I want to be able to find a Dewback at someplace else besides Wal-Mart. Hunting overpriced exclusives has been a frustrating aspect of this hobby for years, and it is proved unsustainable by us.Again, I don't get this thinking. Exclusives exist because it's either that route or nothing, but setting that aside, I think I posted that I spent $250 on exclusives in '09, how is that an excessive cost to own them? We're not talking about 1 $250 item from Sideshow, we're not talking about a $250 payment to Attakus for part of their Falcon display, so I don't see it. $250 is less than a week's worth of minimum wage pay, and we're talking about spread across months, even a whole year. That's the hobby, we're buying stuff, it's not unreasonable that it's got to cost something to stay in business. Let's take the $40 Rancor, 1/8th the price of it is a combo meal at McDonalds. If someone can't brownbag it 8 times to sacrifice for this thing, they don't want it enough; if they're already brownbagging it, it's going to be out of their pricepoint no matter what and they should be better prioritizing their life than collecting toys. $8 for a figure sucks, but if it's going to break my bank, I'm not going to do it, and I don't buy enough figures to make its sacrifice add up to something more important.

If it were proved unsustainable by us, these wouldn't exist - back in the '90s, Target ate it hard on SW 12" Hasbro exclusives and they stopped carrying Hasbro exclusives for years afterwards from all of their brands, they slowed all Hasbro ordering to very cautious levels until a better business model could be reached between them and Hasbro that would ensure less risk and failure. Ultimately, Target came back in a big way with Hasbro exclusives to become one of their strongest retail partners. Consumers are buying this stuff.


I do not agree that the line is not geared towards us, nor that basic figures didn't sell that great. There are exceptions, obviously, like Saesee Tiin and Plo Koon. Saga Legends offers core characters and troop builders. How can that not have something to offer us? Or are we all just interested in clone pilot variations and Jabba's Palace aliens?First off, Hasbro has said that Saga Legends is geared towards kids and casual collectors, not hardcore collectors. Secondly, I just showed why there are almost no figures in the current 18 Saga Legends worth a care to collectors. They don't use the best molds we've come to expect or were too recently released to matter, they don't focus on the OT very well, they are basically largely coasting on the last movie's recognition.


My own experience, which I have heard repeated often here, is that kids are still a viable part of the support for Saga Legends. I understand that you may have different observations.We weren't talking about SL in that line of discussion.


I suppose spending $7-$8 every couple of weeks to support my hobby in a difficult time is acceptable in my mind. I can understand it is not a universal feeling. It is much easier to do than to continue to support what is IMO ridiculously overpriced store exclusives; and as I've said before, I believe it to be more important to show strong support for the basic figure line, as it is the engine that drives the 3/34" Star Wars Hasbro line.That would be fine if it were a product I wanted, but as I pointed out, there's not much in the way of that product which is worth pursuing that way, certainly not 8 months' worth. A better tactic would be to every 5 weeks buy something more expensive in the line that one does sorta want. You claim the exclusives are ridiculously overpriced, yet they seem to be a level of product that scales up accurately from the $25 vehicle line, and quite favorably compared to the $8 figures you're saying we should buy. I could either buy 5 crummy SL figures, or save that money up and buy a nifty exclusive that's much larger and goes better with my collection.

And I still don't buy for a moment this claim that SL somehow has any statement on Legacy figures, I don't see how those dots connect even with the "movie" line I drew - they may as well be LEGO sets or those awful keychains from early '08 for all the impact they seem to have on Legacy.


(Have they been asked about Saga Legends in 2010, regarding figure choices? I don't recall seeing a question.) No, it's only a month until Toy Fair, we already have questions still outstanding, so it wouldn't even get answered until after that anyway.


I know. I constantly underestimate the attention to detail of my fellow collectors.:) I have bought a couple of SL Sandtroopers to use as Stormies in my dioramas, but that's just me.I did the same thing a couple times over the last 3 years, but it wasn't satisfying, and it's done now.


They will not notice after the end of the financial period. They are not looking at Q1 2010, they are looking at Q4 2009, which for many ends on Jan. 3. I believe there will be a tremendous drawback in store exclusives next year, but (like you) I don't believe it will kill the line. What would kill the line would be soft sales in the basic figure line, and that is where we can help see that sales are "strong, strong, strong!" (to quote Smaug. I'm reading The Hobbit to my daughter.)This isn't taxes. They look at daily sales, even hourly sales, so they are going to notice.


I understand the retailer's view of separate lines, but your original thought here underscores the reality of it. To kids, and the general public, they are not separate, they are just Star Wars figures. I don't think that they aren't good enough movie figures, though; there are some real quality figures in SL, even if they are ubiquitous. I mean, is Jeremoch Colton better than SL Darth Vader??? (IF you can find a SL Darth Vader, that is; Colton is easily had these days.)It was just a conceptual comment though. I was saying I saw the kernel of the idea, but the reality of the idea is nowhere near that. SL's job is to get kids to stick with SW buying that the retailers believe them to be doing and maybe tempt them into something more obscure than Han & R2, but on its own it's just to exploit existing, paid-for tooling that is of some interest to a larger audience than collectors.



All I'll say to this discussion is that I think JT's shamed me into getting an AT-ST or two. Thanks for that.:rolleyes:;)Then my job is truly done. :thumbsup:


Well, I'll add one more thing: too often I find I desperately search for an exclusive hoping to find it. I don't see it for the longest time, but then all of a sudden I see fifty on them on an endcap clearanced straight out of the backroom. Almost all the Order 66 two packs I got were like this, especially the first run of them. Target does that more often than Wal-Mart, but Wal-Mart here did it most recently with the Droid Factory figures.Target and WM shift product from store to store based on which stores they think sell well. So they'll get initial product, it'll sell through, and then when other stores don't sell as well, the distribution centers will pull it back and redistribute it to ensure they don't get saddled with leftover stock.



I don't even collect figures anymore...but I also feel like buying an AT-ST out of guilt. :DAnd you damned well should! :p Buy one now, what are you waiting for?!?



The fact that Droid Factory, Saga Legends, and The Clone Wars are three different SKUs means Hasbro looks at them as different lines altogether. I know that Droid Factory and Saga Legends, both under the Legacy Collection banner, are both realistic movie-based lines, but buying Legends will only support that one line, not the other. I already suggested buying exclusives to show support for the more collector-oriented segment of the brand, which you essentially said you were unable (or unwilling) to do so.


So, to more directly help out the Droid Factory line (or whatever it will be called next fall), you should really, truly be buying those figures instead. Do you have them all? If not, then I suggest you track them down instead of wasting your money and energy on Saga Legends. Certainly you still see an Agen Kolar or Jeremoch Colton here and there, and you can't be lacking for Nien Nunb. So get those instead. Hell, if you see a Yarna or Breha Organa that Hasbro missed, please buy them. And you say you understand that the Hasbro and the retailers know that Droid Factory and Legends are two separate entities, but that common people don't; we, however, do, and need to support the Droid Factory line, NOT the Saga Legends line, since that is what will really help us all.These are good points. If you're going to buy more Legacy Collection figs at full price when you see them, that is a better message than randomly buying SL.



As I'm in Ireland and Hasbro, in the best and in the worst of times, probably doesn't give much of a crap what is and isn't available here I don't have to worry about the fact that I'm not buying saga legends. I gave up the hunt years ago and only venture out occasionally to find toys (my last hunt happened upon the new TIE and TIE interceptor though). Mostly I buy from american online retailers or UK online retailers and I'm certainly not going to be ordering any saga legends crap.
The problem is that there aren't enough of your fellow countrymen buying the line, so your retailers get gun-shy and don't think there's enough market, Hasbro Europe seems to agree and doesn't push the line much there.



After not being able to find Rum Sleg until the 3rd week of December I found him bundled (with Legends) at 2 for 1 pricing at Target & Walmart has the Spacetrooper/Han & Luke in StormTrooper wave.

If the Marketing group knew Merchandising was doing this they would not seem so out of touch with their answers and actions.Brand management is in charge of both. How the TPM wave ended up in those multi-packs, I don't know, but it seems to be Target is part of this situation.



I disagree, it IS a fad of sorts, to my mind. There have never been so many exclusives. It worked OK for some stores some years ago, so others have jumped on the bandwagon. And like all fads, it will (and is) fall out of favor, and will end. I understand the intention of exclusives -- I've been collecting the modern line since its inception -- but they are no longer profitable to the retailer, or generally affordable to the collector or parent.Legacy Collection has been on the rocks since July of '08, that is 18 months ago. If exclusives were suffering as bad as you are claiming, we wouldn't have had the last 6 months of exclusives we did. There is some perceived market interested in seeing this stuff get made. Exclusives are no more a fad than Star Wars collecting in general, we've had them since the '70s, and in the modern line we've had a steady stream getting stronger for the last 13 years. Hell, exclusives have had almost as long a run as that other "fad", the internet.



I'd also like to add that if the exclusive vehicles came without figures and were then 5 to ten bucks cheaper it would be an easier sell for me. I already have tons of figures and a crappy jedi Luke (wich I have plenty of) doesn't help sell the rancor for me.The point of those figures is to broaden the appeal of the set so it has a greater chance at retail. The last TIE Pilot on basic card was 5 years ago, right? Makes the TIE Interceptor and TIE Fighter less fun and accessible for anybody who got into collecting since then. And parents are way more into buying a "battle in a box" type of set for their kids. So it's $5 more for a reused figure, or less unit sales which means more expensive anyway.


I have an original ARC-170 that I purchased for $35 and have seen it re-released each time at a higher price. Similar to the Gunship. I realize they have remolded the TIE Interceptor but I cannot justify paying $50 for something that was once only $20 or would be $25 if they made an all new vehicle such as the CW Jedi starfighters or Magna Guard fighters. How does that even happen? How does an all new mold cost less than something redone 3 times? RIP OFF!!!The Republic Gunship's original MSRP was $40, with slow sales Hasbro dropped the price to $30 which worked out better, coasting off higher sales from the lower price and the movie and Clone Wars micro series recognizability. When the next movie came out, the pricepoint held at $30, but after the movie's release, the next iterations started going up in price as the oil crisis caused materials and manufacturing costs to sharply increase. TRU offered the next Gunship in the TSC line at $45, but a year later, Target offered the ARC-170 at $30 again, while simultaneously offering a co-sell of a corresponding exclusive Battle Pack. The next year, TRU offered another ARC-170 for $45, and after that the prices exploded.

That said, the TIE Interceptor is clearly overpriced at TRU, they are asking $10 more for it than Target is for their TIE exclusive that uses the same new cockpit pod and pilot figure. If we re-adjust for the Target TIE Fighter, $40 with no movie support vs $30 with movie support seems to be the big deal, it means greater production numbers, greater sales, so lower prices which then increases sales as well. One key seems to be recognizability.


Whatever happened to the sound fx and light up blasters that made these vehicles so sweet to begin with? Firing missiles are cool and I realize inflation is a ***** but I feel I am getting less for my money these days as far as the vehicles are concerned. I feel the opposite as far as figures go because the SA seems more standard and is still significantly chaeper than what Hasbro was using as SRP on the vintage line.Electronics got more expensive, and have greater safety regulations. But I don't think the new AT-ST is less toy for more money compared to a $20 vehicle, it scales up similarly in my mind.



I then proceeded to break down further and bought a few figures, also with the coupon. I ended up getting:

Han Stormtrooper
Luke Stormtrooper
Scout Trooper
Spacetrooper
Sandtrooper

Anyway, I just thought I would share, though I think these are all "Legacy" and not "Legends" or whatever, I can't really keep it all straight any more.

All I know is that I like all the OT army builder stuff and my daughter likes all the new Clone Wars stuff.:laugh:I think the Sandtrooper is a Saga Legends figure, the rest are Legacy Collection. The Scout Trooper could go either way, it was on older SL cards but right now is in Legacy. Unfortunately, the Saga Legends line just doesn't offer hardcore collectors enough.



I just got back from Walmart and found five of the Legacy figures on the pegs, all with YVH-1 parts. 2 Plo Koon, 2 Agen Kolar, and 1 Han Solo repack from the ANH wave. There was approximaely 30 figures warming the pegs and the rest was CW. I got a wild hair and checked the stickers on the pegs, and only one suggested that it was reserved for Legacy out of the 40 or so pegs in the display. Six of the others were labeled as Legends and the rest CW.Yeah, this is a huge problem, the big retailers losing faith in Legacy means there are very few pegs for Legacy in the planogram, this furthers the downward spiral, as Legacy has less of a fighting chance on its own pegs, and then just gets mixed in with the overwhelming hoards of SL and CW anyway.



I just got back from a few more Walmarts in my area. One had the correct skns/skus but the other (2642) had only Saga Legends tags. No wonder Hasbro thinks they are selling so well. The manager couldn't find anything but legends in the back because thats all he could scan and locate. The 3rd one 1855 had only tags for SL and CW. No Legacy whatsoever! Again the guy couldn't scan and locate to find them in the back. So when Hasbro complaines that the sales data shows a declined interest you can blame Walmart. With these store #s and my last post I hope you mods can send that to Hasbro for them to check out. I will check some Targets this week to see if they are having the same problem.I'm not sending in store data on SL pegwarmers right now because they claim it's just product moving so well that it gets replenished harder. I do agree that a statement about the state of the pegs and the packaging swallowing up Legacy needs to be made, we actually said both of these in Q&A not too long ago but the point wasn't addressed thoroughly and now with this news it's a bigger deal.

Mad Slanted Powers
01-08-2010, 08:13 PM
I'm not sending in store data on SL pegwarmers right now because they claim it's just product moving so well that it gets replenished harder. I do agree that a statement about the state of the pegs and the packaging swallowing up Legacy needs to be made, we actually said both of these in Q&A not too long ago but the point wasn't addressed thoroughly and now with this news it's a bigger deal.That's the thing that's hard to tell for me. Since I just go in once a week, I can't really tell for sure what's selling. However, it seems like the CW and SL figures aren't moving. I've yet to see the latest CW wave. Wal-Mart's pegs have been crammed full since before Christmas.

JediTricks
01-09-2010, 12:01 AM
Well, you can try to get away with it by bending a lower corner on a few key figures. It's not technically on the level, but IMO the customers don't notice the lower corners, only the upper ones, so it shouldn't greatly affect the test data - although you know what they say about observing the test changes the outcome. :p Anyway, I'd suggest marking 3 random SL (not Saesee or Plo, they're confirmed slow sellers already) and 3 CW (not '08 packaging, that's already obviously not moving), then coming back in a short amount of time like 2 days or even a week. If you really want to have fun with it, double the "tagged" test subjects and spread them to both top and bottom pegs, then come back and see which has sold fastest and which has been moved the most.

Blue2th
01-09-2010, 11:33 AM
It's hard to say what's selling and what's not without some sort of marking as you say. I might just try that.

I'm seeing lots of the red card 2 figure value packs with Legends lately. This is a good opportunity to get a few figures for army building for those who do that. A value that's hard to pass up really. Though I'm not short on any Clones, I'm tempted to increase my Super Battle Droid ranks, because he is after all the latest sculpt and a good one. The only thing is you have to buy something you may not want with it. It would be cool to find 2 SBD's in one pack, though that's not likely. So I may as well buy them on the single card of which I'm seeing lots of too right next to the 2-pack Legends. He's the only Legends figure I could possibly see getting more of right now.

I'm also seeing the latest Jabba's Denizens put together in those 2-packs. I just bought them around Christmas. You can't tell what BAD is in them though. A good value for those who don't have them yet.

Mad Slanted Powers
01-09-2010, 11:44 AM
Last time I was at Target, there was some sort of oddly packaged item. It said value two pack or something, but looked kind of shabbily put together, and there was only one figure in it, a Super Battle Droid.

Mad Slanted Powers
01-09-2010, 03:46 PM
I didn't mark any cards, but I did rearrange everything. The figures at Wal-Mart were all mixed up. They had six columns of four pegs. The 2 columns to the right were for SL, the middle two for Legacy, and the right two for CW. After rearranging the figures, I had 14 full pegs of Legends, 6 pegs with some room left on them for CW, and 4 nearly full pegs of Legacy. On the plus side, I did find a Willrow Hood figure. The only other ESB figure I found was a Snowtrooper. I went ahead and got that as well.

Target had just four pegs four each line. The CW and SL pegs were about full, but there were only two lone Legacy figures (Nien Nunb & Leesub Sirln).

JediTricks
01-09-2010, 04:49 PM
I'm seeing lots of the red card 2 figure value packs with Legends lately. This is a good opportunity to get a few figures for army building for those who do that. A value that's hard to pass up really. Though I'm not short on any Clones, I'm tempted to increase my Super Battle Droid ranks, because he is after all the latest sculpt and a good one. The only thing is you have to buy something you may not want with it. It would be cool to find 2 SBD's in one pack, though that's not likely. So I may as well buy them on the single card of which I'm seeing lots of too right next to the 2-pack Legends. He's the only Legends figure I could possibly see getting more of right now.Hmm, something doesn't sound right about that 2pack situation. From what I've heard and seen, there aren't supposed to be Saga Legends in them, only Legacy Collection. Sounds like someone's pulling swap-outs. Then again...

Last time I was at Target, there was some sort of oddly packaged item. It said value two pack or something, but looked kind of shabbily put together, and there was only one figure in it, a Super Battle Droid.Why would anybody bother to do this? Someone is monkeying with them. But maybe Saga Legends are going in these now if you also saw an SBD on this packaging.



I didn't mark any cards, but I did rearrange everything. The figures at Wal-Mart were all mixed up. They had six columns of four pegs. The 2 columns to the right were for SL, the middle two for Legacy, and the right two for CW. After rearranging the figures, I had 14 full pegs of Legends, 6 pegs with some room left on them for CW, and 4 nearly full pegs of Legacy. On the plus side, I did find a Willrow Hood figure. The only other ESB figure I found was a Snowtrooper. I went ahead and got that as well.

Target had just four pegs four each line. The CW and SL pegs were about full, but there were only two lone Legacy figures (Nien Nunb & Leesub Sirln).I've done some rearranging as well, and most of my stores are totally depleted on Legacy because CW and SL has clogged its pegs. Then I come back in a few days and it's WRECKED, with a few Legacy stragglers mixed in. Hasbro and LFL have created a system of failure with this packaging problem.

bigbarada
01-09-2010, 05:04 PM
Hmm, something doesn't sound right about that 2pack situation. From what I've heard and seen, there aren't supposed to be Saga Legends in them, only Legacy Collection. Sounds like someone's pulling swap-outs. Then again...
Why would anybody bother to do this? Someone is monkeying with them. But maybe Saga Legends are going in these now if you also saw an SBD on this packaging.

Well, my Walmart has several Legends carded figures sold back-to-back as 2 packs. The recent SL versions of Yoda, Luke X-Wing, Bespin Han, Chewie, Sandtrooper, and assorted Clonetroopers, among others. There were two entire rows full of them yesterday, so if it's someone doing repacks, then he's been verrrrry busy recently.

Along with the single packed SL, CW and the ever present, blue-card Legacy pegwarmers (mostly Pons Limbic and Captain Needa), I've pretty much given up hope that I'll see any more new Legacy figures at that Walmart. :cry:

Blue2th
01-09-2010, 05:07 PM
Hmm, something doesn't sound right about that 2pack situation. From what I've heard and seen, there aren't supposed to be Saga Legends in them, only Legacy Collection. Sounds like someone's pulling swap-outs. Then again...


For realsees. There were two whole rows full of them at one Walmart. Didn't look to be any tampering there. Right next to the single carded ones. I thought it was odd.

Maybe this will clear out a few Saggy L's.

Mad Slanted Powers
01-09-2010, 05:11 PM
Well, my Walmart has several Legends carded figures sold back-to-back as 2 packs. The recent SL versions of Yoda, Luke X-Wing, Bespin Han, Chewie, Sandtrooper, and assorted Clonetroopers, among others. There were two entire rows full of them yesterday, so if it's someone doing repacks, then he's been verrrrry busy recently.Perhaps that is what I was seeing. Maybe the other figure was on the other side. It wasn't the standard packaging. It was a bit of an oversized card and looked not well put together. I didn't see any at Target today.


Along with the single packed SL, CW and the ever present, blue-card Legacy pegwarmers (mostly Pons Limbic and Captain Needa), I've pretty much given up hope that I'll see any more new Legacy figures at that Walmart. :cry:That's the way it is here at both Fred Meyer stores. Their pegs are full with the last three blue card waves, along with a few of the new card Saga Legends and Clone Wars figures.

elvandrik
01-09-2010, 07:23 PM
Same here, Legacy is in short supply while CW and SL crowd the pegs. I've been talking about this problem a lot lately around the forums.

I think the idea is that SL and Legacy are both "movie" lines and retailers need to know there are still movie buying audiences out there.

This I don't get. The Dewback is larger and more articulated than the original which was $15 but that was 12 years ago and had movie support. Granted, I don't think this new Dewback is all that good, but that's due to my distaste for the new design edict from LFL, not Hasbro's work. Some of the exclusives this year have been high, some haven't. The Rancor was first a good price then jumped $10. The AT-ST is not an unreasonable price IMO, that thing is way bigger than the original and far more articulated and detailed, plus it comes with a figure. The Octuptarra Droid is bigger than a standard vehicle as well, so it's not surprising the price is higher. The question in my mind isn't whether or not the exclusives are too expensive, IMO most are within normal parameters, but whether there's a market for this stuff that will pay to own it.

I don't follow the thinking here. We don't support the line strongly anymore so we should support a line that's not geared towards us? Next holiday, we'll be lucky if there's ANY non-Clone Wars product on the shelves. Basic figures didn't sell that great, that's why Legacy sales are at the bottom and why the line is going on hiatus for 8 months.

Kids aren't part of the line anymore, they're only into Clone Wars apparently. SL is popular with retailers because they had seen past sales, but that doesn't mean it sold well in the now, only they hoped it would based on past sales.

If we buy what we don't really want, then we'll get more of that, not more of what we do want.

What's easy on the budget about buying stuff one doesn't want? Look at the '09 Saga Legends wave currently shipping, there are 3 revisions of this assortment, totaling 18 figures:


Super Battle Droid - I'm unimpressed with this mold, it's got an odd deco, could use more articulation, and wilts too easily.
Plo Koon - pegs are overloaded on this guy, I have no more use for this ROTS mold.
Clone Trooper - I've never liked the sad puppy Ep 2 clone, but I did get what I needed over the last few years.
Obi-Wan Kenobi (Mustafar) - a fair figure, but I'm not a fan of ROTS and already bought this one. Maybe I could buy an extra to headswap with Ep 1 and 2 Obi-Wan, but I'm not sure their outfits are close enough.
Anakin Skywalker (Darth Vader) - See previous, minus the interest to buy any more.
Shock Trooper - I never liked this variant.
501st Clone Trooper - This one isn't as bad, but I didn't feel compelled to buy it before and still don't.
Darth Maul - Inferior decade-old mold rehashed to work with a vehicle nobody liked, now painted even worse.
Clone Trooper (Episode III) - a good figure but one I've bought plenty of over the last 4 years. I'm done with this guy, it's clone overload.
Sandtrooper - the VOTC Stormie in black pauldron gear, so it's inaccurate as 2 figures instead of 1. I prefer the TAC Stormie mold now, this one has that big ugly ball joint neck that shows, and the TAC sculpt is cleaner overall. I might buy another one of these mainly out of pity, but what is the point of a clean sandtrooper?
Han Solo - Look, I dug this figure in POTJ, but gas mask or no, it's way outdated now with its simplistic design and modest articulation. And now its paint has surprise-eyes? Not tempting.
Chewbacca - VOTC Chewie with a new added gas mask. It's an ok figure, but I just got a new, more versatile ANH-hair Chewie with the Falcon, and ROTJ Chewie with pilot headset. I don't need another ROTJ Chewie... ever. Maybe I'll buy one to go with the AT-ST, but again, this would be a pity buy.
R2-D2 - a cute figure for kids, but utterly useless for collectors, and way overproduced. This frankensteined mold has modern legs but a body sculpt from 11 years ago with a non-movable dome and inaccurate orange LED radar eye. This is among the last R2s I ever want to buy again, I have one, it's cute, but that's it.
Saesee Tiin -AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I think I've said enough on this subject. Let's just say there's no chance I am going to pity-buy this figure. And it's pegwarming hard, so I'm not alone there.
C-3PO - I liked this mold enough to buy 2 when it came out, but it's been easily available for a while, and I just don't think it's good enough to warrant buying more of. I want a better C-3PO than this thing can deliver
Yoda with Kybuck - I didn't go for it when it first came out, and I still don't dig it.
Darth Vader - aka Captain Inevitable. Because yeah, if there's one thing we collectors are missing, it's this guy. So what if he's been released half a dozen different previous ways and is inferior in every way to the latest version, which itself could be better? I'm done buying 500th Vader.
Luke Skywalker (X-wing Pilot) - I liked this SL repaint of the figure enough to buy it last year, but how many Luke X-wings does one guy need?
This is not an inspiring line to support, there's very little offered to collectors, very little that I find easy to support. The army builders are all prequels save 1 Sandtrooper that converts to the VOTC Stormie which is the inferior version of the character, and is somewhat useless as a sandtrooper since he's a clean variant. The OT main characters are poorly represented, and there's a lot of holes in the PT main guys as well. Basically, this is an ROTS wave 4 years+ after that film came out, the support for it overall has waned and SL hasn't caught up with the times. If there was something better offered in the upcoming SL line, I might support that, but this here is not viable from any perspective, it's like a leftovers line rather than true legends of the SW line.

I didn't say Sandtrooper, I said Stormtrooper. They are different armor designs. I am sick of clean sandtroopers, I am kinda tired of buying sandtroopers at all anymore, they're not getting better the way the Stormie did with the TAC figure. And I mentioned this figures issues above as well.

And BTW, $7.49 to $8.64 for these Soggy Legends is a joke, most of them we bought for $6 only a few years ago. These are not the cream of the crop figures.

If the product moves at full price, even late, they'll notice. But exclusives aren't going to bury the line, each retailer sets up those deals separately, it just dents it. The failure of 2008 TLC overall seems to be what's really killing the line, and the failure of non-exclusives like Comic Packs, Evolutions, stuff that too much faith was put into during a long break on SW and price increases.

I don't think this is correct. Hasbro and retailers treat Saga Legends as a separate entity from Legacy. SL is not the savior as your desperate tone here claims. If TPTB see SL as separate, then buying stuff we really don't want for too much money isn't going to send any message other than "we are suckers who will buy anything". Buying SL for the sake of sending a message is not sending the message that we want Legacy - these aren't good enough movie figures to sell that concept.



Dude, you're becoming my favorite reactionary. :D


- How many ARC-170 exclusives are there again within a couple months of xmas? You say 2 or 3, reality says: zero. The non-exclusive Shadow ARC-170 has been on shelves since summer, and the only exclusive ARC-170 is the Wampa TRU one which has been on shelves for over a YEAR.
- When were the Droid Factory exclusives out? You say a couple months from xmas, reality: the last day of Comic-Con, July.
- When did the exclusive Rancor hit shelves? You said "within a couple of months of Christmas", reality: Spring.
- Last couple months for the Octuptarra? Reality: late summer.
- Last couple months for the X-wing? Reality: late summer, though I'll give you this one trickled out a little slowly.
- Y-wing in September? I got mine with birthday money in August.
And now it's SW's fault for having product on shelves the same time as other lines? Hasbro should only focus on 1 adult-collector-themed line per quarter or something?

It might be if it were true.

Well, aside from your arbitrary blaming of the end of the year for this stuff - some of which will have shelf life into 2010 - not all of it is meant for the same audiences. And a lot of the exclusives this year have been pretty good, to boot. Would you rather not see them made at all? What would that accomplish? Yes, the economy is making collecting hard, but exclusives taking down the main line? I don't buy it for a second. They are a small fish in a much bigger pond within the brand.


The quality of main characters is something I'm always looking for them to address. There are still tons of old figures that need updating, that's what I'm in for. Saga Legends isn't that line though, it's just exploiting the benefits of existing popular character tooling, it's a pure-profit line for Hasbro so it can afford to overwhelm, but that's selling the future for the now. You guys who want the line to die make no sense to me, if you don't like it, walk away. But for the collectors who want to stick with it, you make it seem like a burden when it's not, why should we have to suffer simply because you don't want to collect anymore?

"Wah". :p Get over it. You didn't make your point properly, I replied to what you said, not what you later say you meant because I didn't know what you intended, only what you said. It's a discussion about the future of the line, what kind of collectors want it to go away? To me, it seems like only the selfish kind who are too weak to walk away from something they no longer have interest in but are addicted to. How is that not a fair point?


You bought 2 of the TPM Dewback and none of the AT-ST? How come?

I will follow your lead and talk about when I put my money where my mouth is:
- full price BMF
- full price Rancor
- full price AT-ST
- full price Target TIE
- full price Clone Wars Y-wing
- full price Obi-Wan TPM Force FX Lightsaber
- full price Galactic Heroes Vader's TIE
- full price G.Heroes Snowspeeder
- full price Rishi Moon Outpost Attack battle pack
- full price Geonosis Assault battle pack
- full price SWTF Magnaguard / Manga Fighter
- full price + shipping last new vehicles of Titanium Series
- sale price Octuptarra Droid
- clearance price AT-TE

Each one sends a statement - good and bad alike - on what I want and what I'm willing to spend. I don't think the line will survive into 2011 unfortunately, collectors are tightwads who don't see how $43 for the AT-ST is reasonable and get reactionary when the end of the year comes like much of this stuff wasn't there for months ahead of time, and then these long delays just clobber collector drive to boot. Pacing and momentum are really suffering these last few years, and Saga Legends isn't the line to salvage that.


Not that Chux's claim is entirely correct, as I addressed above, but what exclusives did you actually want that came out in the last half of this year? Don't tell me whether or not you bought them, just list the exclusives you wanted. Let's see how many of them collectors wanted. I'll go to my list and add up the exclusives and bigger-ticket items from that period. I get: $232, not counting the $120 for the Obi-Wan TPM Force FX saber. As a collector, that's not exactly bonkers money for the last 6 months of exclusives and big-ticket items. Yes, I have no kids and no mortgage, but it didn't take a 6-figure income to get those items either. That's part of collecting. I spend maybe $400 a year on basic figures as well, but nobody seems to be kvetching about that like it's craaaazy of Hasbro to release keep releasing basic figures (except a few folks who post about how they want the line to die, but that silliness stems from self-loathing :p).

Totally! I didn't buy the Dewback or TIE Interceptor, I didn't like the former's TPM design and I do feel the latter is overpriced, but the concept is solid - they make a lot of exclusives that are a justifiable price, and the ones that aren't should stand out like a sore thumb a la Droid Factory $17 packs. And then they make stuff that is worth something but not as much as they're charging like the Octuptarra Droid (decent at $28). It's about choosing what the individual wants and is willing to spend on that item, what seems fair. So many collectors don't look at the AT-ST as being "more than" the previous version, they only see it in their mind's eye and not for what it really is, then complain how it's overpriced and they don't want it.

Pacing has been a huge problem since the Saga line, but '08 and '09 have pushed it to new lows, and '10 looks to be even worse.


Bingo!


This break coming up is going to be for me Clone Wars, catching up after Hot Toys Iron Man mk 3 battle damaged, and Transformers. Saga Legends so far seems to offer me absolutely nothing during the break.


Lol. Dude, take a breath and think about switching to decaf. Sheesh, you guys get emotional when talking about SW figures!

But I am really enjoying this thread. Some people have some interesting ideas and opinions. I agree that SL's crappy figure assortment makes it hard to support.

RENDAR LIVES
01-09-2010, 08:41 PM
I'm not sending in store data on SL pegwarmers right now because they claim it's just product moving so well that it gets replenished harder. I do agree that a statement about the state of the pegs and the packaging swallowing up Legacy needs to be made, we actually said both of these in Q&A not too long ago but the point wasn't addressed thoroughly and now with this news it's a bigger deal.

You misunderstand me JT. It's got nothing to do with peg warmers. It's the skn tags on the pegs themselves. They are listed as individual figures like "clone echo" and "ANH Han" (wich makes me worry that will reflect sales data that says these are hot items when it's poor retail management) at one store while all the other stores just have legends and cw skn tags marking the pegs. So when I ask an employee if the can find me legacy they scan the tags and can only find legends and cw because they don't have the codes for legacy to find a location. They admitted to not knowing there was any difference as well. So it's not the actual figures on the pegs but the skn / sku's themselves. So please bring this up to Hasbro so they can look into this. It is not just an isolated incident and it reflects badly on the legacy line when we cannot purchase them because they are not being put out, wich in turn causes things like this hiatus of the collector line. "Please moderator? You're my only hope."

DarkArtist
01-12-2010, 02:21 PM
kinda bummed that I can't seem to find any of the AOTC Clones on the pegs. really need a few extra for customizing etc. all i have are ROTS Clones. checked 4 different stores and no luck. before Christmas the pegs were clogged with AOTC... wonder if they were all sold out or shipped back.

JediTricks
01-15-2010, 07:16 PM
Lol. Dude, take a breath and think about switching to decaf. Sheesh, you guys get emotional when talking about SW figures! I don't drink coffee or caffeine at all.

This is our hobby, it's easy to get passionate about it. I'd rather be passionate about it like I am right now than feeling blah the way it was a few months ago.


You misunderstand me JT. It's got nothing to do with peg warmers. It's the skn tags on the pegs themselves. They are listed as individual figures like "clone echo" and "ANH Han" (wich makes me worry that will reflect sales data that says these are hot items when it's poor retail management) at one store while all the other stores just have legends and cw skn tags marking the pegs. So when I ask an employee if the can find me legacy they scan the tags and can only find legends and cw because they don't have the codes for legacy to find a location. They admitted to not knowing there was any difference as well. So it's not the actual figures on the pegs but the skn / sku's themselves. So please bring this up to Hasbro so they can look into this. It is not just an isolated incident and it reflects badly on the legacy line when we cannot purchase them because they are not being put out, wich in turn causes things like this hiatus of the collector line. "Please moderator? You're my only hope."I did understand you, actually, hence my comment "I do agree that a statement about the state of the pegs and the packaging swallowing up Legacy needs to be made, we actually said both of these in Q&A not too long ago but the point wasn't addressed thoroughly and now with this news it's a bigger deal."

The tags that have character names are, I think, randomly chosen from those SKUs to help identify the type of product going on the pegs at WM. Target doesn't have that issue.

The problem is planogram-based, so sending in store data doesn't seem to matter, the chains are the problem overall. I think the reboot of the line this year is meant to address this, and with the news of the mainline going to "Vintage" in name and packaging, it will differentiate itself better from SL and CW.

Anyway, I plan on bringing it up to them, but at this point we have no schedule for Q&A so there's not even a point in working it into a lather yet.



kinda bummed that I can't seem to find any of the AOTC Clones on the pegs. really need a few extra for customizing etc. all i have are ROTS Clones. checked 4 different stores and no luck. before Christmas the pegs were clogged with AOTC... wonder if they were all sold out or shipped back.They were not bought back by Hasbro. Most likely they were bought up faster due to looking like the cartoon clones.

DarkArtist
01-16-2010, 02:30 PM
well i helped a little to pick up sales for the saggy Legends line. picked up 3 AOTC Clones today. 1 from Target and 2 from TRU. now if only I can spot and get the EU wave I'd be set

Mad Slanted Powers
01-16-2010, 03:29 PM
Well, I was back at Wal-Mart today. I expected that the figures wouldn't need as much rearranging as they did last week. However, they were just about as mixed up. The problems seems to be that they eliminated 4 pegs, and moved the SL pegs to the right side. So, it looks like there were supposed to be 8 pegs for BAD figures, 8 for CW, and 4 for SL. After rearranging them, there were 12 SL, 4 for CW (with room for more on those pegs), and 4 for BAD. One of those BAD pegs were the 2-packs of the TPM wave. So, that means there was one less peg BAD figures, and that was replaced those with the 2-packs. The Clone Wars figures were maybe a little less than before, while there were 2 less pegs of Legends.

Cane_Adiss
01-17-2010, 12:06 PM
I was at the Wal Mart in Buckhorn, PA recently and was suprised to find at least 16 pegs worth of nothing but legends in a different aisle than the rest of the star wars stuff. In the regular star wars section they had a pretty good selection of BAD, CW and Legends all kinda mixed up. All the BAD waves from TPM to ESB were well represented. CW was actually in the shortest supply and Legends was obviously in the largest numbers. No BAD figures in particular seemed to be pegwarming at this wal mart.

Old Fossil
01-17-2010, 12:28 PM
My Wal-Mart reset their modulars, then filled the pegs with 2 cases of the Legacy ESB wave, then at least 2 cases of Legends. Darth Vader has already sold out from the Legends assortment.

morpheus282
01-17-2010, 01:32 PM
Went to Walmart last night, 20 pegs for all lines. Didn't inventory to see how many were marked for what, but there were only two Legacy figures on the shelf and both were Plo Koon.

Old Fossil
01-17-2010, 02:19 PM
I was wondering, what would you all like to see in the future for Saga Legends? What would make it a more useful line to you? It seems that most here agree that SL is a good thing conceptually, but that there is little use for it as it has been rolled out. How could Hasbro make SL work better?

Case assortments? What would you like to see in that regard?

Price? Do you think a lower price would help, and would Hasbro drop the price on SL, since the tooling and molds costs have long since been paid for?

More limited quantities? A smaller retail footprint?

mtriv73
01-17-2010, 02:50 PM
I was wondering, what would you all like to see in the future for Saga Legends? What would make it a more useful line to you? It seems that most here agree that SL is a good thing conceptually, but that there is little use for it as it has been rolled out. How could Hasbro make SL work better?

Case assortments? What would you like to see in that regard?

Price? Do you think a lower price would help, and would Hasbro drop the price on SL, since the tooling and molds costs have long since been paid for?

More limited quantities? A smaller retail footprint?

A more rapidly rotating assortment of figures would help. I am really sick of seeing Plo koons and Saesee Tinn's clogging the pegs. It should be around 50% army builders as well (also rotating in and out.) I'd like to see 1 figure every other wave or so being something for collectors that may have been not as available as we might have liked the first time around or which was made for collectors but hasn't been released in years and has little chance for an update (like tessek or figures along those lines.) As much as I'd like to see a lower pricepoint, I don't think we ever will.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
01-17-2010, 05:38 PM
They're never going to be at a lower price than the regular basic line; Hasbro has said as much. I believe they attributed it to not wanting to have two different price points on the basic line. That said, if they were a dollar or two cheaper, I wouldn't be as hesitant to buy more figures from the line. I already have a ton of clones, about as much as I can fit into my displays, but I would be more tempted if they were, say, $5 or $6 each (I filled out the ranks when they were a little less expensive a few years ago).

Figures targeted mainly at collectors (like the aforementioned Tessek) don't necessarily need to be repacked, as I'd much rather see that space filled with all-new collector-focused figures; collectors have the means and ability to track these older figures down anyway, so unless it's an update, then there's no point to just re-release it as it was a few years ago.

The line works relatively well when it's not wasted on second- and third-tier characters like Plo Koon and Saesee Tiin. Luke and Vader can be produced in high numbers, but less well-known characters need to be pulled back. Certain characters, I feel, need to be kept in rotation on an almost constant basis:
*Darth Vader
*Yoda
*Obi-Wan Kenobi
*Anakin Skywalker
*Luke Skywalker (any costume)
*R2-D2
*Boba Fett/Jango Fett
*Darth Maul
*General Grievous
*clone trooper (any kind, preferably plain AOTC)
*stormtrooper (not sandtrooper)
*battle droids

Those are the figures that always sell through, if occasionally given time, based on what I've seen. The battle droids haven't been around since the 2007 Legends line, and those were the two-packs of the stiff-armed droids. If they ever choose to release one that can hold the blaster with both hands, perhaps based on the Geonosis Arena Showdown figure, then I'm guaranteed to buy several of them. Previous versions have been less than stellar, as I don't want several commanders (especially inaccurate ones) or several with the same blast marks.

The bottom line is, Saga Legends doesn't need to be useful for me, aside from some army builders. But it's not designed with people like me in mind.

sith_killer_99
01-17-2010, 06:13 PM
Off the top of my head:

1. Lower price point.
2. Army Builders.
3. Assortment.
4. Availability.

I refuse to shell out $7.50-$11.00 for a basic figure that has been issued 6 times in other lines. It's just not gonna happen. I would go for a $6.00 price point, OT Army Builders, Clean/Dirty Sandtroopers with White/Black/Orange pauldrons, Stormtroopers, Snowtroopers, Scout Troopers, Imperial Officers (gray and black uniforms), AT-AT Drivers, Death Star Troopers, Death Star Gunners, TIE Pilots, AT-ST Drivers, AT-AT Commanders (ala General Veers), Scanning Troopers.

I would even consider the $7.50 price point for re-tooled figures such as different head variants for the troopers, removable helmets for AT-ST Drivers, AT-AT Commanders, Imperial Officers, etc.

The other alternative would be Saga Legends Army Builder packs with 3-5 figures each, or a big 6 pack of Sandtroopers with 6 variations of clean/dirty orange/black/white pauldrons.

Price for each pack should be around $6.00 or less:

3 figures = $18.00 or less
5 figures = $30.00 or less
6 figures = $36.00 or less

Less re-tooling would have to mean a lower price point. For example, 5 basic Stormtroopers would not be worth more than $30.00 IMO ($6.00 each), but 5 different Imperial Officers could command $35.00 ($7.00 each).

Considering I just bought the "Death Star Briefing" for $35.00 (shipped) and it comes with 6 Imperial Officers and Darth Vader, that's just $5.00 per figure! Obviously, it would be difficult for Hasbro to match that price in this economy, but if they want to compete, they need to cut their prices to make their product more attractive to consumers.:yes:

Mad Slanted Powers
01-17-2010, 06:28 PM
I pretty much agree with Mr.JJL. The Legends line should be for "legends." This would mean main characters, army builders and other popular figures. Secondary figures shouldn't be there, at least not in large quantities. A hard to find figure that collectors would grab up would be a good choice. Saesee Tiin, who was readily available in the ROTS main line, TAC Legends, and in the Jedi vs. Darth Sidious battle packs, doesn't need to be there. If there is a new Vader in the main line of figures, then they could do without having one in the Legends line for that year.

clone157
01-17-2010, 09:24 PM
Don't forget Han and Chewies! I just realized that I have a shortage of Han s. And why haven't we seen Endor R2 get rereleased? Would Ewoks work on that list, too? And why haven't we seen more of the many colored EP3 era clones that were packed into the Target 2-packs? Why not apply special paint ops on the EP2 clones? Why has Hasbro dragged their feet on those that have been requested time and again, like Darth Trapjaw and Darth Revan? I just don't understand Hasbro's thought patterns.

Old Fossil
01-17-2010, 09:36 PM
Don't forget Han and Chewies! I just realized that I have a shortage of Han s. And why haven't we seen Endor R2 get rereleased? Would Ewoks work on that list, too? And why haven't we seen more of the many colored EP3 era clones that were packed into the Target 2-packs? Why not apply special paint ops on the EP2 clones? Why has Hasbro dragged their feet on those that have been requested time and again, like Darth Trapjaw and Darth Revan? I just don't understand Hasbro's thought patterns.

Bespin Han has been in Legends for a while. They should probably rotate him out and put the VOTC Han in its place, I think.

The ROTJ Chewie is also currently shipping, I believe. It sells well, better than Bespin Han.

The electronic R2-D2 has been shipping in Legends, and seems to sell pretty good. I'd like to see another version take its place, like the recent one from the ANH wave of Legacy.

I agree that new Clones should be brought in to Legends. ARC troopers always sell well, as do yellow/blue/red/green AOTC Clone troopers.

I think Ewoks are best left to Legacy.

EU Sith lords have no real place in Legends, IMO. Maul and Vader are the only ones able to make it in that line, unless they take Dooku out of circulation in Clone Wars and put one in a Legends assortment... but I don't think he'd do well.

bigbarada
01-17-2010, 10:00 PM
Why has Hasbro dragged their feet on those that have been requested time and again, like Darth Trapjaw and Darth Revan? I just don't understand Hasbro's thought patterns.

Legends is a kid focused line, not collector focused. Thus its designed to keep core and action-oriented characters, with a high degree of onscreen recognizability, in circulation. This pretty much disqualifies any EU figure.

mtriv73
01-25-2010, 11:00 AM
Apparently now Hasbro is trying to give away saggy legends figures.

Follow the jump......here (http://www.hasbro.com/starwars/en_US/discover/3-Free-Action-Figures.cfm).

sith_killer_99
01-25-2010, 01:24 PM
Apparently now Hasbro is trying to give away saggy legends figures.

Follow the jump......here (http://www.hasbro.com/starwars/en_US/discover/3-Free-Action-Figures.cfm).

I will take 3 free Sandtroopers please.:laugh:

bigbarada
01-25-2010, 02:21 PM
I will take 3 free Sandtroopers please.:laugh:

So is Hasbro willing to admit that they just might have overproduced the Saga Legends line last year?

Although, I can't help but be a little worried by this. Everywhere I go now I see Saga Legends and blue-carded Legacy figures crowding the Star Wars section, those BOGO 2-packs are on clearance and not really moving. Now this as well as reports from Hasbro of significant drops in sales.

I seem to remember experiencing something like this once before, back in 1985-86 just before the vintage Star Wars line disappeared forever.

The only difference is the animated series from the 1980s failed while the Clone Wars series seems to be one of the most popular cartoons on TV right now.

However, I still can't shake this sinking feeling that 2010 might prove to be the last year for realistic Star Wars figures at retail.

mtriv73
01-25-2010, 04:25 PM
However, I still can't shake this sinking feeling that 2010 might prove to be the last year for realistic Star Wars figures at retail.

There are a lot of rumors about the live action TV series starting in the fall of this year. If that's the case, we'll see figures from that next year and I'm sure they'll keep making OT and PT figures as well. I think the worst case senario is we will never see another very obscure character like Leesub Sirlln (which is fine with me.) I'm not going to worry until we have some solid news to worry about.

JediTricks
01-25-2010, 06:07 PM
Clearance 2-packs and now this? This is worthy of a question.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
01-25-2010, 06:43 PM
Sure thing, boss! :p

Mad Slanted Powers
01-25-2010, 08:05 PM
Apparently now Hasbro is trying to give away saggy legends figures.

Follow the jump......here (http://www.hasbro.com/starwars/en_US/discover/3-Free-Action-Figures.cfm).
It could also be a way to move the things you need to buy to get the three free figures. There always seem to be a lot of them hanging around, sometimes in the clearance section.

Old Fossil
01-25-2010, 10:21 PM
I have devised a plan to guide my Star Wars toy buying over the next eight months, and it involves both Saggy Legends and the Legacy Collection.

I shop primarily at 1 Wal-Mart, which is very close to my job. Recently my wife and I revised our budget to allow some discretionary spending each week, effectively giving each of us an allowance for that week to spend as we wish.

My goal is to buy at least 1 figure per week, 2 if I can manage it; all from the same Wal-Mart. I am going to put forth my best effort at self-control and not buy anything from any other stores or online retailers.

My figure purchases so far this month have been thus:

Week 1: Legacy, ANH Obi-Wan Kenobi
Week 2: Legends, Chewbacca
Week 3: Legends, Sandtrooper
Week 4: Legacy, ESB Luke (Snowspeeder Pilot); Legends, Luke (X-Wing)

So far I find it easiest to buy core OT characters and troopers. It is going to be more difficult when all I am left with are PT characters and troop builders, but that is a few weeks off.

I'm trying to support both lines, but limiting my purchases to only 1 specific retail outlet. This is going to be extremely trying later in the year, if this particular store still has the same full pegs each of the Ugnaught (variant 1) and Captain Needa, and the ubitquitous Saesee Tiin and Plo Koon. We'll see. I have a ways to go until then, and hopefully my efforts at thinning Legacy will be rewarded with a shipment or two of the EU wave.

RENDAR LIVES
01-26-2010, 09:42 PM
I was wondering, what would you all like to see in the future for Saga Legends? What would make it a more useful line to you? It seems that most here agree that SL is a good thing conceptually, but that there is little use for it as it has been rolled out. How could Hasbro make SL work better?

Case assortments? What would you like to see in that regard?

Price? Do you think a lower price would help, and would Hasbro drop the price on SL, since the tooling and molds costs have long since been paid for?

More limited quantities? A smaller retail footprint?


A lower price would definitely help unless as already stated, they had retools or head varients. I'd love to see the other republic commandos and that wouldn't take much more than tooling acessories and repainting. New Tarkin using an existing officer mold. Even Ackbar could be used kitbashed from some recent figures. Bothan spy anyone? Mara Jade could use a better head sculpt imo.

Troop building would sell this to me but in small doses. ROTS drove me nuts. I could barely keep up with all the clones. I gave up on clone variants during the anniversary collection. Stormtroopers with different heads? I'd buy some but I couldn't justify paying $7.50 just for a new head. Repaint as many mandos as possible with different head sculpts and I would eat them up. It's different than a trooper because it would also have different paint schemes and hopefully acessories to differentiate them at a glance.

Certain characters like Revan and Trapjaw (too funny :thumbsup:) as well as Bane would be excellent. That Yuzaan Vong warrior was massive and completely blew me away. Slight retools and paint apps of that would go a long way. I think the evolution pilots would be a good candidate for this as well.

I know the nessesity of the core characters is there too. But cycle them. All the Boba and Jango varients or even just figures that impressed me like Snowspeeder luke make me want to pick up multiples until I remind myself that I don't need 4 or 5 of them. It's a compulsive thing. They could even do a Endor Luke now with the DS2 figure or even the sand storm one.

I agree secondary characters like Seasi or Plo Koon won't do well. As much as I like Eeth Koth (so happy he is alive and well in the CW) and Kit Fisto this isn't thier place. Aayla may do well on the other hand...

EU doesn't deserve the hate some of you have for it. It keeps it fresh and moving forward. The prequels and Clone Wars are pretty much new and refreshing stuff and EU is no different. It just lacks the 30 minute to 2 hour commercial. :razz: All the haters can't seem to except the fact that without new ideas they will run out of things to do and all you will have left is legends and retools (basically the same stuff we already complaine about) if even a line at all.

The line has potential but as JabbaJohn keeps saying it needs balance. Core characters for kids and keep the collectors in mind with current versions instead of crappy Bespin Hans. I think everybody would be happy seeing figures rotated in of figures that were hard to come by or sold as exclusives and sets.

RENDAR LIVES
01-26-2010, 09:49 PM
I could also use more Uatapan Clones and the Airborne clone (in diferent colors) but that is just personal preference. For such a nice figure it hasn't seen much love. It was fun to outfit the clones with their Jedi leaders being color co-ordinated and all.

Old Fossil
02-15-2010, 11:17 AM
Had a nice surprise this morning at my "project" Wal-Mart store. I had not checked the pegs there in about 5 days. In that time they sold out of all their SL Anakins, Obi-Wans, Han Solos, and the last Shocktrooper and C-3PO. This left only 1 ROTS Clone grunt, 3 Super Battle Droids, 2 full pegs of Saesee Tiin, and 2 full pegs of Plo Koon, for SL.

The CW pegs were all nearly full.

Legacy had the same usual suspects they've had for almost two months now. I bought an Utai.

One can't read too much into one store's performance. That being said I still believe: say what you will about Saggy Legends, they're likely gonna be the workhorse of the basic 3 3/4" line until August.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
02-15-2010, 02:15 PM
Well, before August, Hasbro is still going to try to push through all their Legacy backstock, and there are a few waves of really cool Clone Wars figures still on the way. Hasbro is indeed working hard to get collectors back this fall, and I think them offering those sorts of products is going to help the line out far more than us buying up crappy old figures.

El Chuxter
02-15-2010, 02:45 PM
...really cool Clone Wars figures...

That's an oxymoron. :D

Old Fossil
02-15-2010, 07:19 PM
Hasbro is indeed working hard to get collectors back this fall, and I think them offering those sorts of products is going to help the line out far more than us buying up crappy old figures.

"Crappy" is your point of view. I suspect you think they're crappy because they're taking up a good chunk of space at retail, and that's fine. But crappy or not, they're selling better than Legacy, and apparently have been doing so a long time, despite strong collector support for Legacy.

Regularly offering the same sculpts of core characters and army builders is nothing new. We who've been collectors since Back In The Day know that Kenner did it for the better part of a decade, and POTF2 saw the same thing back before TPM. After that, the collecting community kind of got used to having new sculpts all the time. It's been shown time and again that the latter is not a viable modus operandi for Star Wars figures.

I loved Legacy. I bought many figures from the line. I'll support the neo-Vintage line with my dollars, too. But the collector-oriented lines are not what drives the brand. Kids aren't going to be clamoring for Dengar or Dak.

I look forward to seeing what Saga Legends has to offer in the coming months. We won't be seeing much else in the way of non-CW figures, even with the occasional backstock of Legacy that may make its way to the pegs. So don't buy the "crappy" Saga Legends figures. The line doesn't need you to, because there are plenty of people who will, myself included.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
02-15-2010, 07:40 PM
I guess I've already given my two cents several times throughout the thread, but to reiterate, supporting Saga Legends will only support Saga Legends, and it doesn't need our help. Having collectors rebuying old figures only sends Hasbro the message that that's what we want to see . . . save your money and buy every single Legacy and Vintage Collection figure you see; don't worry about Saga Legends unless you want the army builders or whatever.

And by "crappy", I was referring to outdated figures that I already have and don't want any more of.

Mad Slanted Powers
02-15-2010, 07:56 PM
As I've posted in another thread, things haven't changed much at the Wal-Mart here. There are 20 pegs of figures. Eight are supposed to be Legacy, eight for CW and four for SL. There are actually 13 SL, 5 CW and 2 Legacy. I can't say for certain if anything has been replenished or not, but it doesn't appear that much of anything is moving. It seems that the CW increased slightly from last week, while SL and Legacy decreased a bit. There are actually less than 2 full pegs of Legacy.

I agree that there needs to be something like a Saga Legends line to keep popular figures available. However, pegs full of Plo Koon and Saesee Tiin aren't exactly what I had in mind. Unless I feel like adding some more troops, there really isn't much for me to buy in the line, since I already have most of the figures.

I think these are the only SL figures I've got since the Legacy line began:

AOTC Clone
Super Battle Droid
BARC Trooper x 2
ARC Trooper x 2
ARC Trooper Commander x 2
Snowtrooper x 2

I got a lot from the TAC Saga Legends line:

AOTC Clone x 4
ROTS Clone x 2
501st Clone x 2
Dark Trooper x 2
Clone Commander (Evolutions)
AOTC Red Clone
AOTC Yellow Clone
AOTC Blue Clone
Imperial Officer black hair
Imperial Officer brown hair x 2
Pit Droids white
Pit Droids orange
Sandtrooper orange pauldron dirty
Sandtrooper grey pauldron dirty
Sandtrooper white pauldron clean
Biker Scout x 2
R4-I9
RA-7
Commander Neyo
Shadow Stormtrooper
Utapau Shadow Trooper
Zev Senesca

So, I have plenty of troops now. I would probably buy some Stormtroopers if they were the VOTC mold. I didn't like the torso joint on the TAC ones.

Old Fossil
02-15-2010, 09:49 PM
I guess I've already given my two cents several times throughout the thread

Yep, you're at about a dime's worth now.


And by "crappy", I was referring to outdated figures that I already have and don't want any more of.

Outdated? Which ones? I can only think that you might mean Bespin Han, Darth Maul, and Plo Koon, who has a new figure in Legacy. (Even those three are among the best representations available.) Pretty much everything else goes along with current standards of paint apps, sculpts, and articulation.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
02-16-2010, 01:18 AM
Out of the current Saga Legends figures, I see these as "crappy" or "outdated" in one way or another, meaning there are better versions available and I don't want to re-buy any of these: R2-D2, Darth Maul (this one is pretty awful), Yoda (let's have a more articulated one in the realistic line already, as they did it for Clone Wars), Sandtrooper (I'm just sick to death of these by now), Saesee Tiin (see previous comment), ROTS Clone Trooper (there are only two plain white ones in the entire film, so I'm more than good here), Plo Koon (he's outdated AND ubiquitous), and Han Solo (who just looks out of place next to any modern figure). I've bought so many of the SBDs and other clones that I wouldn't have any place to put any new ones, good figures though they may be.

Not sure if I mentioned this before, but I don't rebuy figures I already have unless they're army builders (though I'm pretty much good with everything Legends currently has), significantly repainted (like the 2009 Legacy Boba Fett), or part of a set that has something else I want (i.e. most battle pack releases). By doing this, I already have four ANH X-wing Pilot Luke figures, for instance, so the Legends version offers nothing to me.

El Chuxter
02-16-2010, 01:46 AM
Y'know, if they're saggy, I'm not buying them. If I pay for a figure, I want it to stand on its own.

El Chuxter
02-27-2010, 10:41 PM
Holy crap in a hat, why didn't they market these things as accessory packs with a bonus figure? Chux Jr wanted a Stormtrooper (Clonetrooper, whatever--she just wanted a dude in white armor). I have a use for a somewhat generic Jedi body, so I got her one of the bonus pack Clonetroopers, figuring I'd keep the Saessee and the weapons (I don't let her have anything smaller than an astromech). I thought it'd be the blaster and lightsaber. I didn't expect enough weapons to outfit an entire platoon... in each figure!

Really, it's an awful lot of weapons, and simply putting some stupid "includes Clone gear!" over a nondescript box that looks like filler doesn't seem like an adequate description.

morpheus282
02-27-2010, 10:57 PM
Don't forget that the boxes make good diorama dressing. If they had put a little more variety in the assortment I would have bought tons of figures from that SKU.

Ando
03-01-2010, 11:02 AM
When they introduced he blue cards in Summer 2008, one of our local retailers here in the NW (Fred Meyer) put the blue carded Saga Legends out early (pre-7.26.2008), so I loaded up on the Phase I clones and SBD's and STOCKED UP on the weapons.

It was a nice change of pace to be able to get the DC15 RIFLE with a clone trooper.

JediTricks
03-01-2010, 05:46 PM
Holy crap in a hat, why didn't they market these things as accessory packs with a bonus figure? Chux Jr wanted a Stormtrooper (Clonetrooper, whatever--she just wanted a dude in white armor). I have a use for a somewhat generic Jedi body, so I got her one of the bonus pack Clonetroopers, figuring I'd keep the Saessee and the weapons (I don't let her have anything smaller than an astromech). I thought it'd be the blaster and lightsaber. I didn't expect enough weapons to outfit an entire platoon... in each figure!

Really, it's an awful lot of weapons, and simply putting some stupid "includes Clone gear!" over a nondescript box that looks like filler doesn't seem like an adequate description.Because accessory sets don't sell for crap.

The foot lockers full of guns is cool, but they're ALL prequel guns which I don't need, and some of them are junk. We've been Q&Aing them about putting in different weapons after years of the same ones, they keep saying "maybe next time" and then no, same ol' weapons. I could use a mountain of stormtrooper blasters, everybody in the OT uses those, but no, they keep on including the clone long rifle, the clone blaster, a small clone pistol, a droid blaster, the garbagey Battlefront 2 droid sniper rifle, and the way oversized Battlefront 2 Jet Trooper EMP launcher.

RENDAR LIVES
03-01-2010, 09:14 PM
Most of my clones came with multiple blasters for ROTS. I have far more blasters than I need to arm every figure I have as it is. So the foot lockers didn't sell me iether. I could use another Revan or Bane on single card and they are confirmed. I think Clone mentioned in the QA about the Republic Commandos and Moandolorians as an entire low cost line. I dissagreed as it lets Hasbro get away with 100% profit but in the Legends series I think it would be neat for troop building. I know they would still be the same cost as a new figure but all the line is anyways is repaints and straight repacks. Just so long as it doesnt take away from the new molds in the Vintage assortment.

Mad Slanted Powers
03-01-2010, 09:20 PM
I never found the Wal-Mart exclusive Clone Commando Evolutions, so I would like to see those available again.

RENDAR LIVES
03-01-2010, 09:41 PM
I came across 2 sets at different times. I passed them up because Alpha's helmet was inaccurate for his red armor (wich should have been a ROTS one and would have sold me) and I was saving my money for all the other stuff that was supposed to be out at the time like Cody, Corran, and comic packs. When I have money I can't find anything and the minute I spend it I find EVERYTHING. It gets frustrating.

Mister Roboto
03-03-2010, 11:05 PM
Nevermind. I thought this was a thread about topless photos of Slicker's Mom.

Ando
03-04-2010, 11:26 AM
I never found the Wal-Mart exclusive Clone Commando Evolutions, so I would like to see those available again.

Agreed. Same deal down here in Portland. Other than a scalper store (and I am 99% sure the guy running it is a scalper), I never saw the WM Evo packs until I left Portland and then it was only the Imperial Pilots II and Rebel Pilots III packs.

I really wanted 4 of those Commando Evo packs.

Cane_Adiss
03-05-2010, 12:11 PM
Agreed. Same deal down here in Portland. Other than a scalper store (and I am 99% sure the guy running it is a scalper), I never saw the WM Evo packs until I left Portland and then it was only the Imperial Pilots II and Rebel Pilots III packs.

I really wanted 4 of those Commando Evo packs.

Speaking of scalpers, I think I came across one at WM back when Legacy was just starting to hit heavy around December. He was an older guy and he had a checklist with him. He was taking one of all the Legacy off the pegs and crossing them off when he found them. I got the impression he was planning to resell them but I didn't say anything because he didn't clean everything out. But he did buy all the concept figures (at the time just Ki-Adi and IG) and got multiples of those if there were multiples. He didn't say anything to me while I was watching him. When he left pretty much the only Legacy left were ones that ended up being poorer sellers in my area.

morpheus282
03-05-2010, 01:09 PM
He may have just been on a shopping run for someone else. I've been known to send a list with my wife on occasion.

Always assume the best, it's good for the karma.

El Chuxter
03-05-2010, 01:53 PM
He could also have friends who he knew would have trouble finding some of the figures, or might've gotten them to trade for figures he didn't have.

RENDAR LIVES
03-06-2010, 02:13 AM
Yep. With distribution as poor as it has been I've been doing shopping for friends and them for me. In my experience working at retail the scalpers are usually the employees. They get them right out of the box off the truck.

JediTricks
03-06-2010, 05:38 PM
Most of my clones came with multiple blasters for ROTS. I have far more blasters than I need to arm every figure I have as it is. So the foot lockers didn't sell me iether. The ROTS #41 Super Articulated Clone came with only a blaster, not a rifle, despite only being seen in the film using the rifle. Same with the Clone Wars realistic line's Ep 2 SA Clone. The Saga Legends Ep 2 and Ep 3 Clones all came with blasters in their hands as well, so if not for the foot lockers, the only prequel clone troopers that would have rifles would be the underposeable versions. That said, I don't even like the sculpt they currently use for the rifle, it's as too fat as the Clone Wars CGI line's is too thin.

El Chuxter
03-07-2010, 12:19 AM
Call me insane, but I bought a second Legends Sassy 10 today, since his body is pretty much perfect for a custom I'm working on. That means I've now bought two more Sassy 10's than anyone else on Earth, judging by the way those things are rotting.

RENDAR LIVES
03-07-2010, 10:17 PM
Between the fast draw, red, blue, yellow, SA and all the other clones I cannot say where all the weapons came from. I do remember some clones comming with a blaster and a rifle. I have some clear plastic cases made for baseball cards that are filled with them and they are the multi-stack kind. The only Saga Legends figure I have bought to date is a SA Chewy to keep MOC since I couldn't affor 2 of every VOTC at the time. So the weapons didnt come from him.

Mad Slanted Powers
03-21-2010, 01:43 AM
Fred Meyer had all their figures marked down to $6, so I went ahead and got a Saga Legends ROTS Clone and 501st Clone. I almost got a Super Battle Droid, but passed. Hopefully, this will help to clear out a few figures. They still have a lot of Brehas, Bails, and Yarnas.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
04-30-2010, 10:52 PM
Not sure where else to put this, but according to Hasbro imagery, the upcoming Legends Battle Droid two-pack (http://www.bigbadtoystore.com/bbts/product.aspx?product=HAS18936&mode=retail&picture=out) is going to feature the mold from the Target Geonosis sets. If true, that would be awesome. Too bad they're releasing another inaccurate commander, but hopefully the grunt will have eyes, and hopefully they'll release them in non-Geonosis colors in the future.

JediTricks
04-30-2010, 11:16 PM
Wow, that would be a big improvement, especially considering these were new tools not too long ago. Using these, rotating the colors, GETTING THE DECOS RIGHT, that would almost be "there" for BDs. On the other hand, why this mold has a telescoping neck and not a hinged one I do not understand.

DarkJedi5
05-01-2010, 12:35 AM
That's good news. Should we get a question together about the deco on these? I'm pretty sure some one pointed it out when the Geonosis sets came out but these would be hot sellers if they could get them right.

JediTricks
05-01-2010, 02:31 AM
Why not? They may already be doing it, but we don't know yet, it's worth trying, seeing if enough people are interested at least.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
05-09-2010, 03:59 AM
In a possibly disheartening move, Sandtroopers put up a carded (http://www.sandtroopers.com/sandwatch/hasbro/20100509/legends/target22.html) and loose (http://www.sandtroopers.com/sandwatch/hasbro/20100509/legends/target23.html) image of the set, and the figures appear to be completely unchanged from the Target releases. As in, the Commander has huge eyes while the grunt has none. :( The picture on the cardback as well as the game cards seem to suggest that they'll be sticking with the Geonosis paint scheme, but I'd love to be proven wrong.

El Chuxter
05-09-2010, 12:36 PM
That game looks like... a lot of waste going into the landfills of America. Most adults won't care, most kids won't have enough cards to play.

DarkJedi5
05-09-2010, 01:04 PM
On the other hand, I do like how they're finally mixing up the weapons packs. There are some good looking weapons being offered (like the Clone commando weapons and the Sandtrooper long rifle) I just wonder if they will be randomly inserted or if they will be matched with a specific figure. I guess it seems like they've tried to put extra trooper weapons with troopers and bounty hunter weapons with bounty hunters so I guess it won't be random, but I could be wrong.

morpheus282
05-09-2010, 01:22 PM
That game looks like... a lot of waste going into the landfills of America. Most adults won't care, most kids won't have enough cards to play.

I agree. It makes me wonder if they didn't hire their marketing department from Sirius Cybernetics.

Next up - droids with genuine people personalities!

JediTricks
05-09-2010, 03:03 PM
In a possibly disheartening move, Sandtroopers put up a carded (http://www.sandtroopers.com/sandwatch/hasbro/20100509/legends/target22.html) and loose (http://www.sandtroopers.com/sandwatch/hasbro/20100509/legends/target23.html) image of the set, and the figures appear to be completely unchanged from the Target releases. As in, the Commander has huge eyes while the grunt has none. :( The picture on the cardback as well as the game cards seem to suggest that they'll be sticking with the Geonosis paint scheme, but I'd love to be proven wrong.The pic on the front of the cardback suggests a running change though.

Anyway, as for the wrong figures, I'm HOPING it's just that the pre-production samples used existing product, but that is quite annoying, and a kick in the pants for anybody who bought the Target sets.



That game looks like... a lot of waste going into the landfills of America. Most adults won't care, most kids won't have enough cards to play.Uh, yeah, pretty much. It's not even a new concept, it fails every time.

Kids don't need cards to play this though, the cards as I understand it are character-specific to the figure they're buying, so they battle based on the figure at hand. But they won't. I guess kids have to be playing these a little or they wouldn't keep trying, but dang if I don't believe nobody's playing.



On the other hand, I do like how they're finally mixing up the weapons packs. There are some good looking weapons being offered (like the Clone commando weapons and the Sandtrooper long rifle) I just wonder if they will be randomly inserted or if they will be matched with a specific figure. I guess it seems like they've tried to put extra trooper weapons with troopers and bounty hunter weapons with bounty hunters so I guess it won't be random, but I could be wrong.I agree, these look good, a variety. I don't think they'll be random, 3 sets and each Hasbro photo is very clear to come with set 1, 2, or 3.

DarkJedi5
05-09-2010, 04:14 PM
The pic on the front of the cardback suggests a running change though.


The picture on the card also indicates that the infantry battledroid would have eyes and that's not the case either....


I agree, these look good, a variety. I don't think they'll be random, 3 sets and each Hasbro photo is very clear to come with set 1, 2, or 3.

By random I meant whether you would get weapons locker 1, 2, or 3 since there are clearly three sets. It would be cool if you went to army build a specific trooper and got a few of each of the sets instead of just the same locker over and over.

2-1B
05-09-2010, 04:54 PM
Those cards should not end up in the landfill...this is a good opportunity for kids to learn about the importance of recycling.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
05-09-2010, 05:41 PM
The pic on the front of the cardback suggests a running change though.
It kind of looks to me like two Geonosis droids, but I'm not sure. I guess the 2007 Saga Legends pack had the same image for various combinations, so again, I'd love to be wrong.

JediTricks
05-10-2010, 07:23 PM
By random I meant whether you would get weapons locker 1, 2, or 3 since there are clearly three sets. It would be cool if you went to army build a specific trooper and got a few of each of the sets instead of just the same locker over and over.Yes, I understand that, and what I'm saying is they likely won't be random.

Ando
05-11-2010, 01:35 PM
I am actually excited about some of the Saga Legends figures coming in August and it looks like they come with the blasters I want/need the most such as the Republic Commando DC17 in both standard and anti-armor configurations.

Unfortunately they are figures that I probably won't army build with (Bossk and IG88), so I won't get multiple sets of the DC17's.