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View Full Version : Before everyone gets excited about an accurate Snowspeeder...



El Chuxter
01-27-2010, 03:37 PM
...look carefully at the design (http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/6/60/T47airspeeder_schem.jpg), and ask yourself, "Can this actually be achieved?" I'll argue it cannot. I'm not trying to be negative here. Fact is, from my perspective, the design cannot even work as a two-person craft in-universe.

Most of the design is perfectly fine. It's when we get to the gunner's seat that we run into problems. Dak is shown in ESB sitting near (within arm's length) of the rear window. There's not enough room there for a second person, unless he's a contortionist. The pilot lies down comfortably (though one can argue that's not especially effective for a dude who's flying a combat vehicle). The gunner would have to be almost standing, only there's not enough height for him to do so. The only way he could fit would to squat in an incredibly uncomfortable position, where his only concern would be "Where can I get something to take my mind off the throbbing pain in my thighs and calves?" as opposed to "I need to shoot this AT-AT!" (Also bear in mind that there are what look like some sort of cooling or heating coils in the rear of the speeder, which would presumably take up a good chunk of space inside.)

Design issues in the movie notwithstanding (let's imagine the gunners either are highly trained to deal with the cramped quarters, or humans in the Star Wars galaxy aren't built with the same pain receptors we have), there's no way to fit an action figure into that space in a totally accurate Snowspeeder. The cockpit is shown only opening at the one hinge; forget how tough it must be for a human to get into that second seat without totally kicking out one or two major systems, it's tough enough to get a figure into the existing Snowspeeder. Make it smaller, and how are you going to get Dak (or Janson, or whoever) in and out? Even with added articulation on the figures, it'd require an additional opening on the Snowspeeder, which a lot of folks won't like. They could go for a permanently affixed figure (maybe just the upper body), though this proved unpopular with the Cruisemissile and Power FX X-Wing.

I don't see any way the new Snowspeeder can really be entirely accurate. The gunner is going to have to be placed in through a different hatch, or he's going to have to sit a bit too far forward. It looks better than the existing one, true, and I'm not complaining--fact is, I never even realized how physically impossible the Snowspeeder is in the movie until today. Just saying, is all.

mtriv73
01-27-2010, 04:09 PM
Sometimes, close enough is close enough. From the one picture I've seen, I love it. I'll probably by multiples.

bigbarada
01-27-2010, 04:18 PM
According to the film model, things look cramped for both pilot and gunner. But there is still more space consideration for both occupants than in many of the military vehicles I've ridden in.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
01-27-2010, 04:43 PM
Chux, I think you're going off of the assumption that the gunner's head is lined up with the tiny window in the back, when, as seen in bigbarada's picture, it's actually visible in the large window. This image (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/2/29/Dak-hd.jpg) shows that Dack's head is lined up with the large window as well, so it's accurate to the models. The way you're describing sounds like the vintage design. The vintage mold (http://www.rebelscum.com/potjsnowspeeder.asp) had the seats back too far; look at the figures in the ship (http://www.rebelscum.com/toys2/potjsnowspeederloosertside.jpg) compared to the film model (http://www.rebelscum.com/toys2/potjsnowspeederboxltside.jpg) as seen on the box. Given the few pics we've seen from UK Toy Fair, the new one is much, much closer to accurate. But they did seem to fudge the scale in the film itself; when you're doing a ship as a full-sized prop (in the hangar), a double cockpit (for the shots of the pilots and gunners), and models at likely several different sizes, discontinuities are bound to pop up. This was actually addressed in a recent Insider, which also noted that the Falcon in the Death Star hangar is much too small and that astromech droids couldn't physically fit into the ROTS Jedi Starfighters, but the filmmakers have to do what they can to make these ships look good on screen with less than 100% attention to real-world feasibility. According to the article, there were actually small-scale snowspeeders in the backgrounds of some shots, and children were dressed as Rebel pilots to make the ships look bigger.

bigbarada
01-27-2010, 04:48 PM
Chux, I think you're going off of the assumption that the gunner's head is lined up with the tiny window in the back, when, as seen in bigbarada's picture, it's actually visible in the large window. The way you're describing sounds like the vintage design. The vintage mold (http://www.rebelscum.com/potjsnowspeeder.asp) had the seats back too far; look at the figures in the ship (http://www.rebelscum.com/toys2/potjsnowspeederloosertside.jpg) compared to the film model (http://www.rebelscum.com/toys2/potjsnowspeederboxltside.jpg) as seen on the box. Given the few pics we've seen from UK Toy Fair, the new one is much, much closer to accurate. But they did seem to fudge the scale in the film itself; when you're doing a ship as a full-sized prop (in the hangar), a double cockpit (for the shots of the pilots and gunners), and models at likely several different sizes, discontinuities are bound to pop up. This was actually addressed in a recent Insider, which also noted that the Falcon in the Death Star hangar is much too small and that astromech droids couldn't physically fit into the ROTS Jedi Starfighters, but the filmmakers have to do what they can to make these ships look good on screen with less than 100% attention to real-world feasibility.

Yeah, I seriously doubt the ILM modelmakers considered the possibility that fans would be scrutinizing the "reality" of Star Wars spaceships nearly 27 years after ROTJ was released.

Personally, the inconsistent scales don't bother me. It looks good on screen and that's all that matters.

El Chuxter
01-27-2010, 05:06 PM
I didn't say this isn't as good as it can get. :) I might get it, I might not--the price is going to be the kicker.

JJL, I didn't take the exterior view into account, but used an interior shot of Dak. The exterior shot of where their heads are situated (though it doesn't entirely jive with the interior view) makes a bit more sense.

Bottom line, though, anyone expecting utter perfection may as well complain about it now and get it out of their system. These designs were never intended to be translated into 100% faithful real-world versions, even toys.

JediTricks
01-27-2010, 06:02 PM
JabbaJohn's evidence confirms what BB is saying. The exterior prop model shown DOES line up with the interior set piece with the actor, the headrest is at the sliver middle window and the gunner sits behind that at the large rear window. The toy shown at UK Toy Fair is exactly the same, the headrest is at the sliver middle window. You can even see rear controls behind that.

I don't get why this came up at all.

The Space Outlaw
01-27-2010, 07:22 PM
Sometimes, close enough is close enough. From the one picture I've seen, I love it. I'll probably by multiples.

To what picture are you referring? I've been scouring for images but so far nothing....

EDIT: Never mind, found 'em.

Wow.

And a new Cloud Car, the ROTS Swamp Speeder and Gunship Droid, and even a new (looks like the old mold though) A-Wing.

Pics: http://www.toyark.com/news/star-wars-toy-news-3/new-upcoming-star-wars-toy-prototypes-for-2010-2065/

Darth Jax
01-27-2010, 09:13 PM
i want a fin on the top of my snowspeeder and a door rather that the opening cockpit hatch. that would totally rock and look really good next to the cruisemissile trooper

Devo
01-27-2010, 09:59 PM
I don't get why anyone required a smaller snowspeeder at all, accurate or not. We don't need to ask Hasbro to shrink vehicles, they do that of their own accord, more often than not where we don't want them to.

But yeah I've never quite understood the need for a smaller snowspeeder where it surely can only be even more difficult to get the figures to fit inside in any kind of realistic manner. I hope the new one is about to prove me wrong but personally I would have been fine with the existing mold modified again to have more film accurate cockpit detail and perhaps enabling the pilot to sit up straighter. I don't see how a smaller vehicle will achieve this.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
01-27-2010, 11:25 PM
To what picture are you referring? I've been scouring for images but so far nothing....

EDIT: Never mind, found 'em.

Wow.

And a new Cloud Car, the ROTS Swamp Speeder and Gunship Droid, and even a new (looks like the old mold though) A-Wing.

Pics: http://www.toyark.com/news/star-wars-toy-news-3/new-upcoming-star-wars-toy-prototypes-for-2010-2065/
Just so you know, JediNews.co.uk has boxed and loose shots of the final product (or at least something close to it).

bigbarada
01-28-2010, 12:36 AM
and even a new (looks like the old mold though) A-Wing.

Hmmmm, I wonder if that's just going to be a standard A-Wing in the $25 vehicle line or the blue "concept" version.

Even though it will never happen, I actually wouldn't mind a redo on the A-Wing, if for no other reason than to get rid of that ugly reverse-etching.

Sinscia Fat'o
01-28-2010, 05:46 AM
im just very sad they r just now bringing this thing out, if they would have done this a year or two ago i would have bought like three of them, but now i just dont have the funds or the space. awesome looking toy though!

The Space Outlaw
01-28-2010, 08:01 PM
Just so you know, JediNews.co.uk has boxed and loose shots of the final product (or at least something close to it).

Oh, that is pretty. Definitely a Must-Buy. Thanks!!

Slicker
01-28-2010, 09:09 PM
I almost want to have this thread on record so I can come back to it and say, "He told you so!", when you guys start complaining about the way the gunner sits in the Speeder.

Rocketboy
01-28-2010, 09:35 PM
Dak and Jansen didn't have legs.
Problem solved.




You're welcome.

2-1B
01-30-2010, 09:36 AM
Nice retcon, RB !

darthbooger
02-01-2010, 05:46 PM
So the speeder coming out this year is a new mold? Is it bigger ?

DarkJedi5
02-01-2010, 07:19 PM
So the speeder coming out this year is a new mold? Is it bigger ?

It looks like it's 100% new and it should be smaller and more inline with the actual scale. I know some people think that scaling down the snowspeeder is a bad thing but when it is so big next to the AT-AT it kind of ruins it. I mean, it's probably not going to be able to have the new snowspeeder be able to pass cleanly through the legs of the rumored (and seemingly very likely) BAT-AT, but it should at least be close. With the current versions of these two craft the snowspeeder is almost as large as the AT-AT's body!

darthbooger
02-01-2010, 08:18 PM
Thanks for the answer but oh my god I'm getting old ,even for star wars , whats a BAT-AT?

Old Fossil
02-01-2010, 08:37 PM
Thanks for the answer but oh my god I'm getting old ,even for star wars , whats a BAT-AT?

Big AT-AT.:thumbsup:

darthbooger
02-01-2010, 10:44 PM
Oh duh! :rolleyes::D:rolleyes: thats like I thought BMF was a bad word for like a month here.

Slicker
02-03-2010, 07:56 PM
Oh duh! :rolleyes::D:rolleyes: thats like I thought BMF was a bad word for like a month here.I'm in the same category. I literally didn't realize what BMF stood for until about 3 weeks ago. Seriously.

Darth Jax
02-03-2010, 09:59 PM
there needs to be a glossary somewhere as a sticky for abbreviations. i constantly get thrown by references to past lines (because i can never remember before the current one)