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View Full Version : EU wave to become TRU exclusive, released in May



JediTricks
02-03-2010, 01:42 PM
Uh, I hate to be the bearer of bad news guys, but we just got word in the Q&A that the EU wave's orders were so poor that it's become exclusive to TRU, and won't be out until May.

http://www.sirstevesguide.com/index.php?categoryid=13&p2_articleid=2665

Shocking! Tycho may have a heart attack after seeing this.

Old Fossil
02-03-2010, 01:57 PM
At least now TRU can count on some strong SW figure sales.:rolleyes:

mtriv73
02-03-2010, 02:05 PM
And we can probably count on them being $8.99 or higher.:sad:

pbarnard
02-03-2010, 02:18 PM
Wow, Tycho and I are going to fight in TRU aisles, that's if we lived 1500+ miles closer together.

At least they're being consistent with all the lines, nothing new till late summer/early fall.

El Chuxter
02-03-2010, 02:23 PM
Oh, man, this SUCKS. While I appreciate their making it available when overall orders were so low, this makes the inclusion of BG-J38 in an EU wave while multiple EU droids showed up in movie waves seem even more a poor choice in hindsight. :(

Hopefully they'll be standard figure prices, as the TRU Rise of Cobra exclusive figures (Firefly, Barbecue, Bench Press, Snow Serpent, and the current Arctic-themed wave) have been. If they're handled similar to the Joes, then they should see some pretty decent distribution.

I'm going on record right now that, though I couldn't care less about the Shaak Ti, I actually want all of these and definitely want the BG. Who wants Shaak Ti and doesn't care about the BG part?

JediTricks
02-03-2010, 02:26 PM
I want Shaak Ti and don't care about the BG part.

NerfTW
02-03-2010, 02:28 PM
I don't get it. Why do some people already seem to have the figures from that wave if it isn't hitting stores? Did some ship out?

El Chuxter
02-03-2010, 02:32 PM
Probably got them from China somehow. I bet some of the eBay sellers don't actually have them in hand yet, either.

JT, I'm a bit surprised you don't want BG, but you can have my Shaak Ti (or, if you want to look at it the other way around, I'll take your BG part). TFU is a fun little game, but, as far as I'm concerned, she died when Vader killed her in the Temple. And I don't care for the bimbonization of yet another female Jedi. (You still need that part I have from Breha, too, right?)

JEDIpartner
02-03-2010, 02:32 PM
D'oh! :eek:

I was one of those people who didn't care about this wave. :twisted:

LTBasker
02-03-2010, 02:45 PM
Give me my Dark Trooper (phase 1) or give me death!

And I kinda want Jacen and Jaina as well.

JediTricks
02-03-2010, 03:01 PM
I started a news article about this situation, linking to this thread. I think this news is going to hit the collecting community hard, and I want to get the news out there ASAP.
JT, I'm a bit surprised you don't want BG, but you can have my Shaak Ti (or, if you want to look at it the other way around, I'll take your BG part). TFU is a fun little game, but, as far as I'm concerned, she died when Vader killed her in the Temple. And I don't care for the bimbonization of yet another female Jedi. (You still need that part I have from Breha, too, right?)Sure thing, sounds like a plan.

It's not that I don't want the BG-J38 figure, it's that I know I won't have a hope in hell of completing it. I don't want the Solo twins or K'kruhk, and am not champing at the bit for the phase 1 Darktrooper (the inability to get the phase 3 took the wind out of my sails there), and now it looks like it's going to be a real beast just to get the figures I do want, so realistically there's no use in even getting my hopes up for the parts. It's like the black RA-7 droid, wishing won't make it work and I'm not willing to commit stupid money to it. I still have 3 unfinished BADs to deal with first as well, plus a missing TLC figure (Holo Sidious), so a line has been drawn by this situation.

I really dig TFU, and yes her bikini costume is downright ridiculous, but I started playing it again and it's a fun game, she's a fun battle because she's tough, and it fits the situation she's in pretty well. Even Starkiller is in his fetish garb on that world.

Yes, I desperately need that Breha part! I had totally forgotten about that when my other friend who lived in your area suddenly moved to Oklahoma! How did bimboization remind you of Breha? ;)

El Chuxter
02-03-2010, 03:10 PM
It didn't, but discussion of a BAD part did. :)

I wonder if Hasbro discontinued the BAD concept after seeing so many people accepting not getting figures, or not being drawn into the "buy them all to get the droid" idea. It worked fine for Marvel Legends early on (with Toybiz), when the waves were spaced out pretty well, there were no reissues with different parts from the original release, figures were more or less evenly distributed within waves, and the BAF's were must-haves like Apocalypse or a Sentinel. It's easy to justify getting that stupid X-23 to get one leg or arm for a humongazoid figure. But when the BAF is the same size as the standard, and there's distribution problems, and the BAF doesn't "match" the theme of the wave, it's not nearly as ideal.

For me, I desperately want K'krukh (you know me and anything connected to the Tartakovsky series :)), Jacen and Jaina (even if I would've preferred them younger), and the Spacetrooper (which is a massive improvement over the dull 1998 version). I'm not super-excited about the Darktrooper, for the same reason you're not getting him, but I figure any Imperial-era army builder is a good thing. (And I could honestly see re-painting one to be a Cobra, if I don't want to display him with Star Wars.)

El Chuxter
02-03-2010, 03:28 PM
Sorry for the double post, but I just noticed this part of the original post.
Shocking! Tycho may have a heart attack after seeing this.

I'm expecting him to come along and post something along the lines of "I only need six Jacens, five Jainas, thirty BG-J38's, and fourteen K'krukhs, and have no interest in the rest."

:D

sonofsokol
02-03-2010, 03:32 PM
This is really depressing news:sad:

Droid
02-03-2010, 03:41 PM
So do you think that all of the figures that were supposed to be in that case assortment are now TRU exclusives, or just the EU figures?

The case was supposed to have:

1x Obi-Wan Kenobi (Episode I)
1x Darth Maul (Sith Tattoos)
1x Luke Skywalker (Death Star II/Jedi Knight)
1x Bespin Wing Guard
1x Spacetrooper (Expanded Universe)
1x Shaak Ti (The Force Unleashed)
1x Chewbacca (with headset)
1x Jacen Solo
1x R2-D2 with restraining bolt & Jawa stun net
1x K'Kruhk
1x Dark Trooper (Phase I)
1x Jaina Solo

And all figures were supposed to have the BG droid parts. I was going to buy mostly figures from the film to complete the droid. Will TRU get this whole assortment, INCLUDING the Bespin Guard variant, or just the EU ones. If so, will the movie figures with BG parts ship to all stores, or not at all? Will the Bespin Guard variant be everywhere, TRU, or nowhere?

JediTricks
02-03-2010, 03:46 PM
It didn't, but discussion of a BAD part did. :)Heh heh, I think I liked it better when you saw a connection between bimboization and Breha Organa. :D


I wonder if Hasbro discontinued the BAD concept after seeing so many people accepting not getting figures, or not being drawn into the "buy them all to get the droid" idea. It worked fine for Marvel Legends early on (with Toybiz), when the waves were spaced out pretty well, there were no reissues with different parts from the original release, figures were more or less evenly distributed within waves, and the BAF's were must-haves like Apocalypse or a Sentinel. It's easy to justify getting that stupid X-23 to get one leg or arm for a humongazoid figure. But when the BAF is the same size as the standard, and there's distribution problems, and the BAF doesn't "match" the theme of the wave, it's not nearly as ideal.I honestly don't think the BAD concept was canned for any such reasons. I think it was just a little expensive for a pack-in to design and manufacture, and ran its course. Astromechs were already beginning to feel played out, and I suspect the protocol-sized droids were quickly running short of supply as well. I haven't heard a lot of solid condemnation about the parts, only about the inability to get them - that suggests there is still a market for them.


Sorry for the double post, but I just noticed this part of the original post.

I'm expecting him to come along and post something along the lines of "I only need six Jacens, five Jainas, thirty BG-J38's, and fourteen K'krukhs, and have no interest in the rest."

:DThat, my friend, is a given. ;)



So do you think that all of the figures that were supposed to be in that case assortment are now TRU exclusives, or just the EU figures?

The case was supposed to have:

1x Obi-Wan Kenobi (Episode I)
1x Darth Maul (Sith Tattoos)
1x Luke Skywalker (Death Star II/Jedi Knight)
1x Bespin Wing Guard
1x Spacetrooper (Expanded Universe)
1x Shaak Ti (The Force Unleashed)
1x Chewbacca (with headset)
1x Jacen Solo
1x R2-D2 with restraining bolt & Jawa stun net
1x K'Kruhk
1x Dark Trooper (Phase I)
1x Jaina Solo

And all figures were supposed to have the BG droid parts. I was going to buy mostly figures from the film to complete the droid. Will TRU get this whole assortment, INCLUDING the Bespin Guard variant, or just the EU ones. If so, will the movie figures with BG parts ship to all stores, or not at all? Will the Bespin Guard variant be everywhere, TRU, or nowhere?That is a very interesting question. I really don't know. My gut says they will tweak it to be only new figures, but there's no real reason they would since TRU already was buying those figures in regular waves anyway.

sebillba
02-03-2010, 03:47 PM
Well I'm really pleased now I coughed up for a loose BG-J38 from ebay. But I still want to get Utris M'toc and probably K'Kruhk.

sonofsokol
02-03-2010, 03:49 PM
There are people selling this droid on ebay already (http://cgi.ebay.com/STAR-WARS-Legacy-tlc-bad-BG-J38-droid_W0QQitemZ260546356304QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_D efaultDomain_0?hash=item3ca9c5e450). I know where was some discussion of this in the ANH wave thread recently. Just a thought for anyone who is worried/willing to pay the price.

JediTricks
02-03-2010, 03:51 PM
I hadn't thought of that, Utris M'toc was going to be in that wave.

El Chuxter
02-03-2010, 05:06 PM
Even though another site will probably ask it, the case breakdown probably does warrant a question.

DarkJedi5
02-03-2010, 05:40 PM
This has got me really bummed. I was going to get everything in this wave (and the Utris fig) and double or triple up on the Spacetrooper and the Darktrooper. Now I'm sure I'll be lucky if I find them all, let alone the extra army builders.

Maradona
02-03-2010, 05:51 PM
Did you feel that? It was as if the collective souls of scalpers cried out in ecstasy at the revelation of this news.

morpheus282
02-03-2010, 05:55 PM
I wonder if my pre-ordered case will be cancelled now?

clone157
02-03-2010, 06:38 PM
NOOOOO! I AM SICK AND TIRED OF HASBRO TRYING TO KILL THE REALISTIC STYLE FIGURES!! This is really iritating me. I was looking forward to this wave more that most of the others that were released this year. I hate going into Toys r Gone and especially because of the cost of their Star Wars exclusives. I have been buying more and more figures that I didn't really want because I wanted those little droids and the fact that I want to help to keep the line alive, but I feel stabbed in the back. Hasblo has been screwing up their case assortments for a long time now and can't seem to see that there needs to be more thought put into case breakdowns beyond doing it by movie. Heck, one from each movie, one collector specific, and one EU would have been smarter and keep the line alive longer. Now, I have to go hit something.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
02-03-2010, 06:41 PM
This sucks indeed. I wasn't too hard-on for any of these figures, but I want them; that's not really the issue at hand, though, as TRU has been pretty great with their exclusive availability lately (though the pricing has been awful). This is just bad news for the line in general, I feel. Those vintage figures better be freakin' spectacular sellers in the fall.

Darth Jax
02-03-2010, 06:50 PM
since hasbro has the rights for figures until 2018, if they kill the line we can't even hope someone else would want to pick it up. buying the rights on top of costs for all new tooling for figures wouldn't make it feasible for a smaller toy company.

El Chuxter
02-03-2010, 07:10 PM
I'm going to mention this again (partly because a lot of folks are complaining, and partly because I hope it's true). :)

TRU has received, by now, three different exclusive waves of GIJoe: Rise of Cobra figures. Not only has every TRU near me had plenty of every figure in those waves, but they were priced exactly the same as the standard ROC figures. In fact, they ran specials on all figures around the times the waves were released.

I would assume (and, at the very least, hope) that an exclusive wave of standard Star Wars figures would be handled the same.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
02-03-2010, 07:26 PM
I'm going to mention this again (partly because a lot of folks are complaining, and partly because I hope it's true). :)

TRU has received, by now, three different exclusive waves of GIJoe: Rise of Cobra figures. Not only has every TRU near me had plenty of every figure in those waves, but they were priced exactly the same as the standard ROC figures. In fact, they ran specials on all figures around the times the waves were released.

I would assume (and, at the very least, hope) that an exclusive wave of standard Star Wars figures would be handled the same.
I do hope you're right. Then again, they released Commander Ponds for $9.99 a while back, and he was on the basic card and everything. I hope for an entire wave, though, they would indeed keep the same price, and since the GI Joe stuff was entire waves, then hopefully they'll do the same here.

morpheus282
02-03-2010, 07:48 PM
I'm hoping for one of two things out of this:

TRU will not only have the wave at regular price, but their distribution of the wave will be nothing like what the rest of the Legacy line has been since July of last year.
If my TRU doesn't get any, my pre-order of the case from EE will still come through.

Old Fossil
02-03-2010, 08:00 PM
Has this ever happened before? I mean, an entire last wave of figures from a line being siphoned off onto a retailer as an exclusive. Would that last wave of Freeze Frame figures from POTF2 -- Hoth Leia, AT-AT Driver, Ree-Yees, DS Trooper, DS Droid -- would that count?

El Chuxter
02-03-2010, 08:03 PM
The final, repaint wave from around The Saga Collection (2006) became Wal-Mart exclusives. Most stores got a lot, but, it being WM, some stores got none. At least TRU usually seems to be better about actually receiving, shipping, and stocking their exclusives.

Old Fossil
02-03-2010, 08:25 PM
The final, repaint wave from around The Saga Collection (2006) became Wal-Mart exclusives. Most stores got a lot, but, it being WM, some stores got none. At least TRU usually seems to be better about actually receiving, shipping, and stocking their exclusives.

Thanks! I'd forgotten about that. Then again, that was a mostly forgettable wave.

bikerscout
02-03-2010, 09:17 PM
this is really *&#ty news. I hope the wave is also available online through TRU and other etailers, esp. if the stores don't stock these or they stock so little the scalpers take everything. Horrible.

jamesbondo07
02-03-2010, 09:39 PM
This is really going to suck. The nearest toys r us to me is around a 2 hour drive. Most of the time that one toys r us has nothing when it comes to star wars figures.

gba88
02-03-2010, 09:47 PM
Yep total suckage.... tru is like an hour away and i've personally seen scalpers at work there many a time. oh well..............

Darth Jax
02-03-2010, 09:52 PM
more figures i'll never see. since the TRU down the block closed several years ago i only shop at TRU about once every 6 months (and when i'm there it seems like the inventory is exactly the same as the previous visit)

bigbarada
02-03-2010, 09:53 PM
Well, if nothing else, this has only reinforced the lesson learned in 1996 and 1998: EU figures don't sell.

From SOTE and the 1998 EU wave to the failed Comic Packs and now the last Legacy EU wave. It's clear that figures based on EU sources are retail suicide.

El Chuxter
02-03-2010, 10:06 PM
Did the 1998 EU figures really not sell in your neck of the woods? Just asking.

Darth Jax
02-03-2010, 10:09 PM
Well, if nothing else, this has only reinforced the lesson learned in 1996 and 1998: EU figures don't sell.

From SOTE and the 1998 EU wave to the failed Comic Packs and now the last Legacy EU wave. It's clear that figures based on EU sources are retail suicide.

and yet 2 of the priciest individual figures (on the secondhand market) over the last few years are EU - Darth Revan and pre-cyborg grievous

bigbarada
02-03-2010, 10:13 PM
and yet 2 of the priciest individual figures (on the secondhand market) over the last few years are EU - Darth Revan and pre-cyborg grievous

Those guys pegwarmed pretty good over here for several weeks before Christmas. At any time I could have gone over to my Wal-Mart and picked up 2 or 3 of each of them.

bigbarada
02-03-2010, 10:14 PM
Did the 1998 EU figures really not sell in your neck of the woods? Just asking.

None of the retailers in my area even ordered them.

Darth Jax
02-03-2010, 10:31 PM
Those guys pegwarmed pretty good over here for several weeks before Christmas. At any time I could have gone over to my Wal-Mart and picked up 2 or 3 of each of them.

i never saw them on the shelves at Target or WM, never saw them at retail anywhere. it was like they didn't exist around me.

further proof of the unequal distribution across parts of the country.

bigbarada
02-03-2010, 10:43 PM
i never saw them on the shelves at Target or WM, never saw them at retail anywhere. it was like they didn't exist around me.

further proof of the unequal distribution across parts of the country.

Well, to be fair, I think that my area is made up of Hasbro's core audience: kids who beg their parents to buy them toys. I don't think a trip to Walmart goes by that I don't see some kid rifling through the Star Wars toys (unless I go late at night on a school night). Clone Wars and Saga Legends seem to move pretty well and, exactly like Hasbro describes, EU and collector-focused figures rot on the pegs without fail. This is especially true as you get closer to East St. Louis.

DarkJedi5
02-03-2010, 11:15 PM
Well, if nothing else, this has only reinforced the lesson learned in 1996 and 1998: EU figures don't sell.

From SOTE and the 1998 EU wave to the failed Comic Packs and now the last Legacy EU wave. It's clear that figures based on EU sources are retail suicide.

While it's true that there's probably three bad EU items for every good one, but things like the Battlefront battle packs sold well enough to justify another set down the road (so says big H if things hold to the schedule they've got) and the fan's choice concept stormtrooper was impossible to find in my area on its first run. Just sayin, that not all EU stuff tanks.

Phantom-like Menace
02-04-2010, 12:36 AM
Well, if nothing else, this has only reinforced the lesson learned in 1996 and 1998: EU figures don't sell.

From SOTE and the 1998 EU wave to the failed Comic Packs and now the last Legacy EU wave. It's clear that figures based on EU sources are retail suicide.

Wow, crop failures in China would be direct evidence for you that EU figures shouldn't be sold. Sometimes I find myself almost believing you've really convinced yourself you've cracked the EU conspiracy wide open.

First, let's pretend that EU figures are the Great Satan you make them out to be. I hear an image of Yarna Dal-whatsherface appeared burned into a piece of toast in Boise, ID, so that will be our empirical evidence making this statement an immutable truth.

Second, though, you're going to need to have me pretend that executives at major retail stores have any clue whatsoever which figures have and haven't been Expanded Universe. Then based on that, I'm going to have to pretend that they then heard the final wave of Legacy figures is going to be all Expanded Universe, so they decided not to buy them. I'm picturing these well informed executives, but it's like picturing Santa Claus. It's cool to think they're out there, but--sorry kids--they don't exist.


Legacy sales have been so far off the mark

Aside from the Comic Packs and a BAD or two, have there been any EU figures in the Legacy Collection? We might have to look more closely at those crop failures in China. They just might not be watering properly. And that might have been Danny DeVito instead of Yarna in that piece of toast, because it sounds like even movie figures are screwing this pooch.


We originally set out to have more figures after the EU wave, but it became apparent that we would never get to them so they became the Toys 'R Us exclusive multi-packs.

Well, only TRU wanted these movie figures that would come after the EU wave, so--to paraphrase--if nothing else, this has only reinforced the lesson that Star Wars figures don't sell. It's clear that figures based on Star Wars are retail suicide.

bigbarada
02-04-2010, 12:45 AM
Wow, crop failures in China would be direct evidence for you that EU figures shouldn't be sold. Sometimes I find myself almost believing you've really convinced yourself you've cracked the EU conspiracy wide open.

First, let's pretend that EU figures are the Great Satan you make them out to be. I hear an image of Yarna Dal-whatsherface appeared burned into a piece of toast in Boise, ID, so that will be our empirical evidence making this statement an immutable truth.

Second, though, you're going to need to have me pretend that executives at major retail stores have any clue whatsoever which figures have and haven't been Expanded Universe. Then based on that, I'm going to have to pretend that they then heard the final wave of Legacy figures is going to be all Expanded Universe, so they decided not to buy them. I'm picturing these well informed executives, but it's like picturing Santa Claus. It's cool to think they're out there, but--sorry kids--they don't exist.



Aside from the Comic Packs and a BAD or two, have there been any EU figures in the Legacy Collection? We might have to look more closely at those crop failures in China. They just might not be watering properly. And that might have been Danny DeVito instead of Yarna in that piece of toast, because it sounds like even movie figures are screwing this pooch.



Well, only TRU wanted these movie figures that would come after the EU wave, so--to paraphrase--if nothing else, this has only reinforced the lesson that Star Wars figures don't sell. It's clear that figures based on Star Wars are retail suicide.

And all this time I thought I was on your ignore list. :D

Anyways, Hasbro has already stated in a previous Q&A that the high focus on EU based figures was part of the downfall of Legacy and they are going to be significantly scaling back the number of EU figures that they make. No conspiracy theory there, so you're little straw man argument falls flat.

I never claimed that EU figures were the "Great Satan" so you obviously missed my whole point. However, if you had paraphrased me to say that "EU figures suck and I'm not sorry to see them go," then you would have truly understood where I was coming from. :p

Darth Metalmute
02-04-2010, 08:08 AM
If peg warming is the ultimate display of what no one wants, then The Clone Wars line will bankrupt Hasbro, at least in my area. The Toys R Us I visit weekly hasn't had a new figure in months. And they are all Clone Wars on the shelves. I haven't seen a BAD figure there is 6 months. The only Slave Leia I found was in a Target buy one get one free two pack. I'm looking forward to the EU line to be a TRU exclusive because it means I should actually see it, instead of just hearing about it.

That being said, I will never understand how Hasbro always makes an EU wave, instead of just having an EU figure packed in with another box.

El Chuxter
02-04-2010, 08:35 AM
Do the buyers even know what figures are in a wave unless they read fan sites? Really, do we know for sure they're not just seeing "new Star Wars figures" and entering a number?

bikerscout
02-04-2010, 09:26 AM
disagree that EU doesn't sell well -- in '07 TAC wave 5 has extremely hard to find, due to poor distribution and b/c it had figs people really wanted - Revan, Malak, Roronn Corobb, pre-cyborg Grievous. '08: early in the year the Force Unleased wave was not easy to find -great figs- BD Vader, Shadow Guard, Kota. Later in '08: TLC microseries CW figs sold fairly well and were cool too e.g. Obi-wan & Saesee tiin w/armor, Scuba trooper, Quarren & mon calamari warriors. '09: The cmdr Faie, Yuuzhan Vong, Lumiya, and Krayt comic packs were movin off the shelves. The Darth Maleval figure (from the Joker squad pack) is one the best SW figs i've ever seen. Very well made.
Dunno if the McQ concept figs count as EU, but those were a real pain to find. I think toy sales overall (minus Xmas season) are down, EU figs aren't killin it.

pbarnard
02-04-2010, 09:52 AM
... Yuuzhan Vong, Lumiya, and Krayt comic packs were movin off the shelves. ....EU figs aren't killin it.

This is just with respect to the last wave of comic pack figures, the EU ones aren't the problems. It's the repacking of several earlier packs like the Vader/RFT, Han/Chewie etc that are choking it to death. Hasbro can be blamed for terrible case distribution here. They decided to put them in, and well when half the case gets sold and the rest languishes, "they don't sell".

bigbarada
02-04-2010, 09:52 AM
disagree that EU doesn't sell well --

That must be why the comic packs continue to be such a roaring success. :p

And FYI, "hard to find" does not necessarily mean successful. Plus, in regards to previous comments, a high secondary market value does not equate retail success. Just look at examples from the past. Of all the vintage toys, the POTF figures consistently command the highest loose values on the secondary market (we're talking about strictly basic releases and not accounting for carded figures, variants or errors). Why are they still some of the most sought after loose action figures from the vintage Kenner days? Because they were such strong sellers? No, the line died the same year they were released. It was only because they were retail failures that they are so rare today.

So, if anything, history teaches us that a high secondary market value is more likely to indicate a failure at retail, not success.

pbarnard
02-04-2010, 09:54 AM
That must be why the comic packs continue to be such a roaring success. :p

And FYI, "hard to find" does not necessarily mean successful. Plus, in regards to previous comments, a high secondary market value does not equate retail success. Just look at examples from the past. Of all the vintage toys, the POTF figures consistently command the highest loose values on the secondary market (we're talking about strictly basic releases and not accounting for carded figures, variants or errors). Why are they still some of the most sought after loose action figures from the vintage Kenner days? Because they were such strong sellers? No, the line died the same year they were released. It was only because they were retail failures that they are so rare today.

So, if anything, history teaches us that a high secondary market value is more likely to indicate a failure at retail, not success.

Well just to take a cheap shot, skiff guards and Rancor Keepers warming the pegs are just as good as comic packs with main characters (in EU settings) warming the pegs. Warming the pegs is warming the pegs.

bigbarada
02-04-2010, 10:07 AM
Well just to take a cheap shot, skiff guards and Rancor Keepers warming the pegs are just as good as comic packs with main characters (in EU settings) warming the pegs. Warming the pegs is warming the pegs.

Well, Malakili is in a class of Loserville all by himself.:) Although, the pegwarming must be a regional thing because I've only seen one Malakili in the stores. In fact, the entire ROTJ wave has been nonexistent in my area. The only figure I ever saw with any consistency was DS2 Luke and that was only because he was repacked in later waves.

Plus, I'm not sure which Skiff Guards you are talking about, because none were released in 2009. We had a Sail Barge/Palace Guard and two Rancor Keepers, but no Skiff Guards. ;)

However, you are right, they don't have a huge history of selling extremely well. Barada pegwarmed in 1985 on into 1986, and he pegwarmed again pretty heavily in 2006. However, the big difference is that I'm not asking for entire waves full of Skiff Guards. If Hasbro could just squeeze in one or two a year (starting with Kithaba), I would be happy.

pbarnard
02-04-2010, 10:07 AM
Has this ever happened before? I mean, an entire last wave of figures from a line being siphoned off onto a retailer as an exclusive. Would that last wave of Freeze Frame figures from POTF2 -- Hoth Leia, AT-AT Driver, Ree-Yees, DS Trooper, DS Droid -- would that count?

In star Wars I would count that. Also, the Bespin Freeze Chamber playset was scheduled to be released in stores, but was pulled and made a fanclub exclusive in 2000/2001. It has happened several times in GI Joe since 1997 (mostly with the whole line ending, going to Hasbrotoyshop.com, them cancelling, the collector's club getting the last wave, and restarting again with 25th Aniversary).

RENDAR LIVES
02-04-2010, 10:16 AM
This is just with respect to the last wave of comic pack figures, the EU ones aren't the problems. It's the repacking of several earlier packs like the Vader/RFT, Han/Chewie etc that are choking it to death. Hasbro can be blamed for terrible case distribution here. They decided to put them in, and well when half the case gets sold and the rest languishes, "they don't sell".

This is a key factor. Almost every online store has sold out of pre-orders for this EU wave. Even Hasbrotoyshop has sold out of the new comic packs and has been sold out for a long time. So if the preorders are sold out then why is Hasbro blowing smoke up our ***? I don't get it. Also of note they stated the Vintage line would include new and used figures. Isn't that why there is legends? Who are they trying to fool?

I don't like it one bit. Like G.I.Joe, everyone wanted new sculpts of classic characters and they ignored the fans and one day somone finally accomodated the fans and boom! 25th Anniversary became the hottest thing to happen to that brand since the original line.

Almost every Walmart and Target I go to they know nothing about the colored tops that seperate the collections. They just scan one sku to order and thats what is clogging everything. I have talked to every manager at my local stores and had to explaine this to them. Fortunately I got some good insight in return. At Walmart you can have an employee scan the sku and they can order it right then and there. It takes specifically 21 days for turnaround so if you want some legacy love then go do that.

Yes. Between legends and repacks in legacy, its choking off our new figures. Hasbro has got to be pretty f'n ignorant to just put this on our shoulders and I am sick to death of the bad economy excuse.

TRU is full of scalpers. I used to work there and they open the cases fresh of the truck and repack them. They watch fan sites and ebay to see what will be hot items and places like EE give case break downs to show what will be rare. I have 2 TRUs within ten minutes of me and would gladly pick up whatever for anyone at cost plus shipping but my TRUs dont stock stuff very well. I haven't seen legacy there at all since August.

Kinda scares me. Walmart never even carried the Marvel Universe stuff until just before Christmas and the were supposed to have a couple exclusives in the fall like Bucky Cap. I never saw them and cant even find them on ebay.

bigbarada
02-04-2010, 10:38 AM
This is a key factor. Almost every online store has sold out of pre-orders for this EU wave. Even Hasbrotoyshop has sold out of the new comic packs and has been sold out for a long time. So if the preorders are sold out then why is Hasbro blowing smoke up our ***? I don't get it. Also of note they stated the Vintage line would include new and used figures. Isn't that why there is legends? Who are they trying to fool?

I don't like it one bit. Like G.I.Joe, everyone wanted new sculpts of classic characters and they ignored the fans and one day somone finally accomodated the fans and boom! 25th Anniversary became the hottest thing to happen to that brand since the original line.

Almost every Walmart and Target I go to they know nothing about the colored tops that seperate the collections. They just scan one sku to order and thats what is clogging everything. I have talked to every manager at my local stores and had to explaine this to them. Fortunately I got some good insight in return. At Walmart you can have an employee scan the sku and they can order it right then and there. It takes specifically 21 days for turnaround so if you want some legacy love then go do that.

Yes. Between legends and repacks in legacy, its choking off our new figures. Hasbro has got to be pretty f'n ignorant to just put this on our shoulders and I am sick to death of the bad economy excuse.

TRU is full of scalpers. I used to work there and they open the cases fresh of the truck and repack them. They watch fan sites and ebay to see what will be hot items and places like EE give case break downs to show what will be rare. I have 2 TRUs within ten minutes of me and would gladly pick up whatever for anyone at cost plus shipping but my TRUs dont stock stuff very well. I haven't seen legacy there at all since August.

Kinda scares me. Walmart never even carried the Marvel Universe stuff until just before Christmas and the were supposed to have a couple exclusives in the fall like Bucky Cap. I never saw them and cant even find them on ebay.

You just have to be cautious to not equate what is going on within 100 miles of your home with nationwide or worldwide trends. There is clearly a lot of inconsistency in the distribution and just because one figure is pegwarming where you live doesn't mean it is pegwarming everywhere. Conversely just because on figure is hard to find in your area, doesn't mean it is not pegwarming elsewhere.

So, we have a limited view of what sales trends are, Hasbro has the benefit of looking at nationwide and worldwide sales trends. Thus, I wouldn't be so quick to just assume that Hasbro is stupid or lying. It's more logical to assume that you are simply not seeing the bigger picture.

RENDAR LIVES
02-04-2010, 11:21 AM
You just have to be cautious to not equate what is going on within 100 miles of your home with nationwide or worldwide trends. There is clearly a lot of inconsistency in the distribution and just because one figure is pegwarming where you live doesn't mean it is pegwarming everywhere. Conversely just because on figure is hard to find in your area, doesn't mean it is not pegwarming elsewhere.

So, we have a limited view of what sales trends are, Hasbro has the benefit of looking at nationwide and worldwide sales trends. Thus, I wouldn't be so quick to just assume that Hasbro is stupid or lying. It's more logical to assume that you are simply not seeing the bigger picture.

Yeah but when I see the same complaints about the same figures on here from people all over the country it says a lot. Same with the e-tailers.

And about your comment on secondary market values, it may not have been a success but it says there is still a ton of demand and most people complaine that they couldn't find those figures because of poor distribution.

How am I not seeing the bigger picture? Aren't you the one who said they'd narrow themselves down to a single portion of a movie if prices increased? Hasbro only has a veiw of what retailers are ordering and what consumers are buying but the argument is people can not buy what isn't there.

bigbarada
02-04-2010, 11:41 AM
Yeah but when I see the same complaints about the same figures on here from people all over the country it says a lot. Same with the e-tailers.

Again, exactly how many people are we talking about here? Even if JT's high estimate of 100,000 adult collectors is accurate, that's still a tiny fraction of Hasbro's worldwide sales and distribution. And I seriously doubt you have read complaints from more than 100,000 people online. If you really count everyone up, then I would almost be willing to bet that you haven't even read the complaints of 100 adult collectors. When you are dealing with numbers that small, then you are dealing with individuals, not national trends.


And about your comment on secondary market values, it may not have been a success but it says there is still a ton of demand and most people complaine that they couldn't find those figures because of poor distribution.

There are many variable that affect secondary market value. My main point was that it is simply not sufficient evidence to "prove" that a toy line is a retail success. Some of the most high dollar toys on the vintage secondary market come from failed toy lines.

Also, just because a 3 year old figure is commanding 2-3 times retail at this point in time, doesn't mean that that pattern will hold 20-30 years from now.


How am I not seeing the bigger picture? Aren't you the one who said they'd narrow themselves down to a single portion of a movie if prices increased? Hasbro only has a veiw of what retailers are ordering and what consumers are buying but the argument is people can not buy what isn't there.

I said that I would narrow my focus on specific parts of the OT if prices continued to increase. That wasn't a reference to Hasbro, I was talking about my personal spending habits.

However, I do agree with your last statement, but that is simply a part of the downward spiral that eventually kills every toy line. Once retailers start to lose faith, then it would take almost a miracle for a line to recover. Obviously, EU and super-obscure movie figures are the first casualties of sagging sales; but that shouldn't have come as a surprise to anybody.

If the return of vintage-styling doesn't rejuvenate the realistic line in 2010, then I would bet that we won't see anything but Clone Wars, Saga Legends and maybe a few exclusive releases in 2011.

However, for harmony's sake, let's just all agree to blame this on Yarna. :D

mtriv73
02-04-2010, 11:50 AM
This is just with respect to the last wave of comic pack figures, the EU ones aren't the problems. It's the repacking of several earlier packs like the Vader/RFT, Han/Chewie etc that are choking it to death. Hasbro can be blamed for terrible case distribution here. They decided to put them in, and well when half the case gets sold and the rest languishes, "they don't sell".

Amen. I've seen tons of the rainbow trooper with vader as well as the luke and han stormtroopers (which were available at the same time as single carded figures in a more realistic version.) But I've never seen the Darth Krayt pack in the wild and I've only seen the other 2 once. Some idiot at hasbro thinking these would sell well again killed this line in much the same way they thought tons of repacks were a good idea for titanium.

RENDAR LIVES
02-04-2010, 12:16 PM
Again, exactly how many people are we talking about here? Even if JT's high estimate of 100,000 adult collectors is accurate, that's still a tiny fraction of Hasbro's worldwide sales and distribution. And I seriously doubt you have read complaints from more than 100,000 people online. If you really count everyone up, then I would almost be willing to bet that you haven't even read the complaints of 100 adult collectors. When you are dealing with numbers that small, then you are dealing with individuals, not national trends.



There are many variable that affect secondary market value. My main point was that it is simply not sufficient evidence to "prove" that a toy line is a retail success. Some of the most high dollar toys on the vintage secondary market come from failed toy lines.

Also, just because a 3 year old figure is commanding 2-3 times retail at this point in time, doesn't mean that that pattern will hold 20-30 years from now.



I said that I would narrow my focus on specific parts of the OT if prices continued to increase. That wasn't a reference to Hasbro, I was talking about my personal spending habits.

However, I do agree with your last statement, but that is simply a part of the downward spiral that eventually kills every toy line. Once retailers start to lose faith, then it would take almost a miracle for a line to recover. Obviously, EU and super-obscure movie figures are the first casualties of sagging sales; but that shouldn't have come as a surprise to anybody.

If the return of vintage-styling doesn't rejuvenate the realistic line in 2010, then I would bet that we won't see anything but Clone Wars, Saga Legends and maybe a few exclusive releases in 2011.

However, for harmony's sake, let's just all agree to blame this on Yarna. :D

I'm sure between Yakface and Rebelscum and here there are more than a hundred collectors complaining about the same thing. I may be getting technical but you just compared JTs one country to worldwide sales. So in that case you would be right. I have a hard time believing we are just a minority. I'm sure any kids who grow into collecting will not want 20 Lukes or Vaders iether.

My argument for the secondary market isn't sales or cost. It's that there is still demand for it and thus revenue from meeting that demand.

It's sad people need constant reminders like cartoons or movies to maintain an interest in this stuff. I'd hate to see Star Wars end up like Transformers and have a new revamp every year. So I hope Star Wars is an exception to that rule.

I did blame her but now I wanna blame that pink headed broad who keeps clogging my pegs. :D

pbarnard
02-04-2010, 01:02 PM
However, for harmony's sake, let's just all agree to blame this on Yarna. :D



I did blame her but now I wanna blame that pink headed broad who keeps clogging my pegs. :D

We all agree, ugly chicks made into figs killed the line!!! Kumbaya!!!! Lazy good for nothing women who charge for their services and people who at least one time buy at those rates that would be more concisely stated with a word begining with "w".

Now, let's go find Slicker's mom and stone her for this fact!:tired:

bigbarada
02-04-2010, 01:15 PM
I'm sure between Yakface and Rebelscum and here there are more than a hundred collectors complaining about the same thing. I may be getting technical but you just compared JTs one country to worldwide sales. So in that case you would be right. I have a hard time believing we are just a minority. I'm sure any kids who grow into collecting will not want 20 Lukes or Vaders iether.

My argument for the secondary market isn't sales or cost. It's that there is still demand for it and thus revenue from meeting that demand.

It's sad people need constant reminders like cartoons or movies to maintain an interest in this stuff. I'd hate to see Star Wars end up like Transformers and have a new revamp every year. So I hope Star Wars is an exception to that rule.

I did blame her but now I wanna blame that pink headed broad who keeps clogging my pegs. :D

The problem is that we can only guess on actual sales numbers. Hasbro has full access to the actual sales numbers. So I think it's unwise to not trust them. I don't believe in any of this conspiracy theory stuff about Hasbro lying or intentionally trying to kill Star Wars.

If you put the pieces together, Hasbro has stated over and over again that sales on Legacy are lagging worse than they expected. However, according to this:
http://www.sirstevesguide.com/index.php?categoryid=57&p2_articleid=2668
Star Wars still maintains the #1 spot for Boys Toy Properties in the US. So how do we reconcile these two seemingly contradictory statements?

1. Just assume that Hasbro is lying and, for whatever reason, intentionally trying to kill off the collectors market. Which makes no logical sense. The goal of any company is to make products that appeal to a wide variety of consumers. Why would Hasbro deliberately choke off the collectors' market if they were actually profiting from it?

2. Trust Hasbro, because they have access to all the facts and we, as individuals, can only make assumptions based on our personal experiences.

So, if Star Wars still holds the top spot, but collector focused sales are dwindling badly, then the only logical explanation is that Hasbro is being truthful when they say that the kid's market is booming and collectors are walking away in what seems to be record numbers.

When you take into account the global recession, then this explanation makes even more sense. Many adult collectors are at the age where they have children who are in the prime age range for Star Wars toys. When times are tough, those parents are more likely to buy new toys for their kids to keep them happy while foregoing buying new toys for themselves. In fact, things like toys, candy, etc. become consolation items for children when their families hit hard financial times. Because parents like to keep up the illusion that everything is fine while they struggle to get back on their feet. (It doesn't necessarily make sense, but it's true. Which is why families in America who can't afford 3 meals a day still own a television set.)

Anyways, enough with the Sociology lesson, I'm glad to see Hasbro refocusing on the Original Trilogy for 2010; but if this doesn't draw collectors back and sales continue to drop, then it doesn't look good for anyone but Clone Wars fans in 2011.

Lord Malakite
02-04-2010, 01:23 PM
Well, if nothing else, this has only reinforced the lesson learned in 1996 and 1998: EU figures don't sell.

From SOTE and the 1998 EU wave to the failed Comic Packs and now the last Legacy EU wave. It's clear that figures based on EU sources are retail suicide.


Did the 1998 EU figures really not sell in your neck of the woods? Just asking.
Yeah, I'd have to agree on the 1998 EU wave. Aside from the 3 "concept drawing" figure/vehicles I never even saw any of these guys at retail. I had to get 4 of the figures through the SW Fan Club in "figure sets" (Mara Jade, Kyle Katarn, Space Trooper, & Dark Trooper) and the other 5 figures I got only because JBF got lucky one day at KB toys (just happened to bring out a sealed case while he was there). Incidentally said case was gone after he and few others purchased them up.

bigbarada
02-04-2010, 01:33 PM
Yeah, I'd have to agree on the 1998 EU wave. Aside from the 3 "concept drawing" figure/vehicles I never even saw any of these guys at retail. I had to get 4 of the figures through the SW Fan Club in "figure sets" (Mara Jade, Kyle Katarn, Space Trooper, & Dark Trooper) and the other 5 figures I got only because JBF got lucky one day at KB toys (just happened to bring out a sealed case while he was there). Incidentally said case was gone after he and few others purchased them up.

Well, that just begs the question, if the 1998 EU wave was so successful, then why did Hasbro wait 9 years before releasing more EU figures in significant numbers? And why did it take 10 years for Hasbro to release another all-EU wave?

Again, putting our personal experiences aside and looking at the facts, it doesn't add up to say that the 1998 EU wave was a retail success.

El Chuxter
02-04-2010, 01:43 PM
The 1998 EU wave, IIRC, wasn't a separate SKU, and came at (or near) the end of a subline. Those are always underordered, because stores have tons of the less desirable figures Hasbro keeps re-releasing in every case.

pbarnard
02-04-2010, 01:44 PM
Well, that just begs the question, if the 1998 EU wave was so successful, then why did Hasbro wait 9 years before releasing more EU figures in significant numbers? And why did it take 10 years for Hasbro to release another all-EU wave?

Again, putting our personal experiences aside and looking at the facts, it doesn't add up to say that the 1998 EU wave was a retail success.

Honestly, because the EU comic packs were fine or the occasional figure here and there, just like Jabba's Guard (location neutral) :p

But a wave failing could fail just from 1 or two figures sagging behind. Look at what wasn't included later in the EU Fan Club version: Imperial Sentinel and Thrawn specificlly. Certain EU figures are hot but if a whole case has a stinker like Yarna or Malakili or Leensa or 44858567th version of earlier comic packs is included, the wave/line in question fails because if doesn't sell all the way through the way the rest does. It doesn't mean the line or the wave failed, that given figure did. Why did it fail? Lame character/design/unknown? Overpacked in case? Repacked from previous cases? All contribute.

RENDAR LIVES
02-04-2010, 01:47 PM
The problem is that we can only guess on actual sales numbers. Hasbro has full access to the actual sales numbers. So I think it's unwise to not trust them. I don't believe in any of this conspiracy theory stuff about Hasbro lying or intentionally trying to kill Star Wars.

If you put the pieces together, Hasbro has stated over and over again that sales on Legacy are lagging worse than they expected. However, according to this:
http://www.sirstevesguide.com/index.php?categoryid=57&p2_articleid=2668
Star Wars still maintains the #1 spot for Boys Toy Properties in the US. So how do we reconcile these two seemingly contradictory statements?

1. Just assume that Hasbro is lying and, for whatever reason, intentionally trying to kill off the collectors market. Which makes no logical sense. The goal of any company is to make products that appeal to a wide variety of consumers. Why would Hasbro deliberately choke off the collectors' market if they were actually profiting from it?

2. Trust Hasbro, because they have access to all the facts and we, as individuals, can only make assumptions based on our personal experiences.

So, if Star Wars still holds the top spot, but collector focused sales are dwindling badly, then the only logical explanation is that Hasbro is being truthful when they say that the kid's market is booming and collectors are walking away in what seems to be record numbers.

When you take into account the global recession, then this explanation makes even more sense. Many adult collectors are at the age where they have children who are in the prime age range for Star Wars toys. When times are tough, those parents are more likely to buy new toys for their kids to keep them happy while foregoing buying new toys for themselves. In fact, things like toys, candy, etc. become consolation items for children when their families hit hard financial times. Because parents like to keep up the illusion that everything is fine while they struggle to get back on their feet. (It doesn't necessarily make sense, but it's true. Which is why families in America who can't afford 3 meals a day still own a television set.)

Anyways, enough with the Sociology lesson, I'm glad to see Hasbro refocusing on the Original Trilogy for 2010; but if this doesn't draw collectors back and sales continue to drop, then it doesn't look good for anyone but Clone Wars fans in 2011.

I never said it was a conspiracy theory or that Hasbro is lying. I just don't think their numbers are accurate. If stores are only ordering Saga Legends then thats all that can be bought. Many retailers in my area have pleaded ignorance of even knowing these were seperate lines so they have pegs filled with nothing but SL and that is also all they have in the back room. True, it may be my area alone but it doesn't sound like that.

I have to wonder how true that statement is. Sounds like an assumption to me. I would assume people are more likely to spend money on a $8 toy than a $60 video game.

As I said before, I love the way the new Vintage figures look but there are only so many versions of main characters I can stomache and if that's the route Hasbro intends to go here on out they will be losing me as a customer as well. I like new things and not just the 30th release of a clonetrooper.

Lord Malakite
02-04-2010, 02:10 PM
Well, that just begs the question, if the 1998 EU wave was so successful, then why did Hasbro wait 9 years before releasing more EU figures in significant numbers? And why did it take 10 years for Hasbro to release another all-EU wave?

Again, putting our personal experiences aside and looking at the facts, it doesn't add up to say that the 1998 EU wave was a retail success.
It depends on how you define "retail success".

If you mean made enough money/sales to warrant future figure waves by Hasbro, then no they weren't a retail success. I'd have to say they simply weren't available in a "large" quantity to make the "profit" needed in Hasbro's mind to justify future waves.

If you mean "actually selling" though, then yes I'd say they were a retail success. The fact that you couldn't just walk into any store on any day and just buy them off the shelves as you pleased and the fact that the Fan Club had to step in and offer some of them in sets (which also sold out as quickly as they were offered) due to complaints that they couldn't be found attest to that.

As for why most of the new EU stuff isn't selling. I'd say over-saturation (like the SOTE line) is one culprit. The other in my opinion is too many EU figures being released at one time with a good deal of those being based on unwanted/less popular EU characters (the Jocasta Nus of EU). With the 1998 EU line you had popular/well recognized EU figures (multiple appearances over several forms of SW EU mediums) of Thrawn, Mara, Dark Trooper being made for the first time. The recent EU stuff, you have re-sculpts of already released EU figures (Mara, Thrawn), already released movie characters being re-sculpted/repainted in "comic book" colors (Stormtrooper, Tarken), and relatively obscure EU figures that have little to no recognition outside from one or two appearances (Duros Stormtrooper).

El Chuxter
02-04-2010, 02:30 PM
Their strategy on EU almost seems to be designed to fail. They insist that EU figures must be in comic packs, though an awful lot of them weren't. Then they release "who?" characters like Basso and Mouse or Deena Shan (again, twice... WTF?), and re-release these sets as nauseum.

Yet, figures who have been highly-demanded for ages take forever to see production (if at all). And many of them are poorly executed (like Talon Karrde, who's, uh, the wrong ethnicity). And they churn out tons of "we can simply slap a different color of paint on this old figure and re-release him in a comic pack!" figures that no one was asking for, like the Mandalorean set from WM a year or so ago.

One thing that could help would be getting retailers to stock collections of the older comics, though that's unlikely.

TheDarthVader
02-04-2010, 02:57 PM
Yet, figures who have been highly-demanded for ages take forever to see production (if at all).

I totally agree with this. Even though I am not an EU fan, there are some figures I like. If I may add to your statement, El Chuxter, high demand figures either:

1. take ages to come out
2. do not see production
*3. are released in low numbers at times and are very hard to find (ie: Darth Revan and Darth Malak)

*added by TheDarthVader

LTBasker
02-04-2010, 03:04 PM
This is also annoying for the Dark Trooper, as they always seem to be a pain in the butt. The first release was the POTF2 EU wave release, and that was barely existent or not existent at all in some places, then the rerelease was sparse, and sought after by scalpers due to the gold EU coin. The Phase 3 Dark Trooper was an overpriced pain, and didn't even show up here, and now the Phase 1 is in danger. How nice.

I demand a HasbroToyShop-exclusive Dark Trooper Evolutions pack. -_-

Darth Metalmute
02-04-2010, 03:18 PM
I never said it was a conspiracy theory or that Hasbro is lying. I just don't think their numbers are accurate. If stores are only ordering Saga Legends then thats all that can be bought. Many retailers in my area have pleaded ignorance of even knowing these were seperate lines so they have pegs filled with nothing but SL and that is also all they have in the back room. True, it may be my area alone but it doesn't sound like that.

There some important truths to this. When a store like TRU goes through a shelf change, that comes from corporate. They line up the sku on the racks Legends, BAD, Clone Wars. Hasbro and TRU will over load the Clone Wars since thats whats new. When Legends pegwarm, the BAD's fly off the shelves, and the Clone Wars can't sell their doubled inventory, stockers will fill the BAD racks with Clone Wars backroom stock due to Store Managers not liking to see empty slots. So when the order takers come into scan, they have no idea what is needed and upon seeing full racks, don't order new inventory. So BAD line has high demand due to how fast they fly off the shelves, yet appear as no demand to Hasbro as no purchases have been made due to the over-saturation of another line.

bigbarada
02-04-2010, 03:23 PM
Yeah, as someone who has campaigned regularly over the last 8 years for some pretty obscure background characters from ROTJ, I don't want to delve too much into this.

I don't want to begrudge EU fans of their figures, but I would definitely agree that the oversaturation of "who cares?" figures from both EU sources and the films is what has led the Star Wars line to this point. Since I don't care much for modern EU sources, I can't tell the difference between a core EU character and the super obscure. I liked the Duro Stormtrooper and actually purchased that set. I had no idea that he wasn't as important as someone like Mara Jade, but I thought he was pretty cool.

I could live with one EU figure per wave similar to the McQuarrie figures. I think that would be a fair ratio for everyone. However, I think the days of Hasbro releasing entire EU-only waves are over.

sonofsokol
02-04-2010, 03:35 PM
I demand a HasbroToyShop-exclusive Dark Trooper Evolutions pack. -_-

I would buy a couple for sure.

El Chuxter
02-04-2010, 03:41 PM
Another problem is how ridiculously spread out some of these EU figures are. Some, like the KOTOR, SOTE, and TFU figures, are released in bunches. But with NJO, a series of novels that stretched over four years real-time (and is still being continued in a current comic book series), the figures have been insanely spread out. There was NJO Luke in an Evolutions set, then the Kyle Katarn/Yuuzhan Vong set over a year later, and the YVH-1 Build-A-Droid a few months after that. Then Jacen and Jaina a few months later.

With EU stuff, I think it's important, even if it's not all available at one time, to make similar figures and accessories available within a relatively short time. We know that Nom Anor and Anakin Solo have at least reached the prototype stage, but have they planned anything beyond that? Pretty slim subline, if these are all the figures we get.

Darth Metalmute
02-04-2010, 04:17 PM
Plus, we've gotten two exclusive EU Battlepacks, Crimson Empire Crucible and Joker Squad. Both, to my recollection, have sold very poorly. Hasbro could use this as evidence that EU doesn't sell or that EU battlepacks will never happen again. Yet the sets they released had little exposure themselves. The crucible was one or two pages out of a six book series and I have no idea about the Joker squad as I don't even pretend to follow that series. One could make an argument that a KOTOR or a Trawn Trilogy battle pack would sell much better. If fact, I would bet a battlepack of generic Vong or Sith troopers would sell better than those two sets.

El Chuxter
02-04-2010, 04:21 PM
A Battlepack of Vong soldiers would sell more than both combined, and just to Tycho. ;) Provided, of course, they don't stick a Darth Vader in it for some reason.

pbarnard
02-04-2010, 04:21 PM
Plus, we've gotten two exclusive EU Battlepacks, Crimson Empire Crucible and Joker Squad. Both, to my recollection, have sold very poorly. Hasbro could use this as evidence that EU doesn't sell or that EU battlepacks will never happen again. Yet the sets they released had little exposure themselves. The crucible was one or two pages out of a six book series and I have no idea about the Joker squad as I don't even pretend to follow that series. One could make an argument that a KOTOR or a Trawn Trilogy battle pack would sell much better. If fact, I would bet a battlepack of generic Vong or Sith troopers would sell better than those two sets.


Joker Squad was at least featured in one entire issue of the book. Couple of the characters later defected and joined the Galactic Alliance remnants, but they at least had more page time.

And yet, they are making 2 more EU battlepacks: The Force Unleased upcoming.

Darth Metalmute
02-05-2010, 09:19 AM
And yet, they are making 2 more EU battlepacks: The Force Unleased upcoming.

But isn't the upcoming battlepacks just existing Hasbro backstock from figures that were going to be released when the game dropped? Sort of a, "we chose not to release these figures due to the poor selling of the initial line, but we need to get them out of our warehouse."

TheDarthVader
02-05-2010, 05:40 PM
I, too, would be down for a dark trooper evolutions pack. That would be superb.

Jabbapalacespy
02-05-2010, 05:49 PM
All I want is the BG-J38 droid. Praise the Lord for Ebay! I"m sure I can buy it off ebay for less than I would spend at TRU for 6 EU figures that I really don't have any use for.

TheDarthVader
02-05-2010, 07:28 PM
I agree. I just mainly want the droid plus the jedi guy. He looks really cool.

RENDAR LIVES
02-06-2010, 11:05 AM
I'm so bummed about the comic packs. There are a few good sets that would have been perfect for that line. Like Siri as Zora and Kenobi in Ubeese disguise as well as Hondo Karr and his ex wife in Beskar Gam from the end of Legacy #41 (I think). Their armor just seemed so original than just Boba and Jango repaints.

I'd consider myself spoiled if I got at least 1 EU figure per wave. Anakin and Nom Anor are at the top of that list. Especially since we are already getting the Solo twins. I hope the Anakin is from the novel covers rather than how he is depicted in the comics. I just hope my pre-orders for them are still good with them going to exclusive.

I think the Crimson Empire set did poorly because it looked like Power Rangers and it was more than a decade after the comic series and any power behind it had already died down. As for Joker Squad, I think it's hard for anyone but troop builders to justify the purchase of different heads and 1 new female stormy sculpt. Besides that, most of those characters died in that 1 issue.

RENDAR LIVES
02-06-2010, 11:11 AM
But isn't the upcoming battlepacks just existing Hasbro backstock from figures that were going to be released when the game dropped? Sort of a, "we chose not to release these figures due to the poor selling of the initial line, but we need to get them out of our warehouse."

The funny thing about that statement is at the time Hasbro said TFU was doing exceptionally well. So why did they drop the other waves until now? This is why I don't always take Hasbro at their word.

JediTricks
02-06-2010, 03:48 PM
Let me start by saying that we don't need to bicker over this and further splinter the collecting community, we need to rally together to save what's important.


Well, if nothing else, this has only reinforced the lesson learned in 1996 and 1998: EU figures don't sell.

From SOTE and the 1998 EU wave to the failed Comic Packs and now the last Legacy EU wave. It's clear that figures based on EU sources are retail suicide.I think they do sell, but only in small bites. They need a specialized pacing to work, can't inundate consumers with too many a year. In any case, this EU wave isn't the problem, it's the regular figures which came before it having trouble at market that caused this. I do agree that they over-focused on EU though the last few years, taking ToyFare's first Fans Choice poll results as gospel despite their readership not being heavy SW buyers.



and yet 2 of the priciest individual figures (on the secondhand market) over the last few years are EU - Darth Revan and pre-cyborg grievousAftermarket pricing isn't a good indicator. For a long time, swimming Jar Jar was a super hot seller. Aftermarket only shows how desperately a small group of fans is demanding a product.



While it's true that there's probably three bad EU items for every good one, but things like the Battlefront battle packs sold well enough to justify another set down the road (so says big H if things hold to the schedule they've got) and the fan's choice concept stormtrooper was impossible to find in my area on its first run. Just sayin, that not all EU stuff tanks.Those Battlefront packs were even reissued to success. But that's not a good indicator of EU either, those are awesome army-building packs. The 2 Battlefront figures on basic cards, the Rebel Trooper (Endor) and the Imperial Engineer didn't fare that well.



Do the buyers even know what figures are in a wave unless they read fan sites? Really, do we know for sure they're not just seeing "new Star Wars figures" and entering a number?Yes. What is it with you on this kick of retailer buyers not knowing anything? They're the ones who said no more females or Neimoidians in the Ep 1 line or they'd walk, that's a very specific requirement. They know what does and doesn't sell in their stores pretty well, they weigh the power of a Darth Vader selling well against the collector-only interest of a Darth Trapjaw and decide how many they want to risk. They know our brand. Otherwise Toy Fair wouldn't have any entries at all, just generic figures fighting it out and a quick ad pitch. Even at Comic-Con you can see buyers dropping by the Hasbro booth and talking to the team there, and if you stay in the booth long enough you can hear them talking business about specific characters and vehicles.



This is a key factor. Almost every online store has sold out of pre-orders for this EU wave. Even Hasbrotoyshop has sold out of the new comic packs and has been sold out for a long time. So if the preorders are sold out then why is Hasbro blowing smoke up our ***? I don't get it. Because online sales are a scant fraction of the overall sales, probably not even 5%. Brick&mortar retailers are still stuck with old Comic Packs stock, they don't want to order more until they sell through. And around here, it's not just the reissued sets, it's the ones with Wedge & Borssk Fey'lya.



Again, exactly how many people are we talking about here? Even if JT's high estimate of 100,000 adult collectors is accurate, that's still a tiny fraction of Hasbro's worldwide sales and distribution. And I seriously doubt you have read complaints from more than 100,000 people online. If you really count everyone up, then I would almost be willing to bet that you haven't even read the complaints of 100 adult collectors. When you are dealing with numbers that small, then you are dealing with individuals, not national trends.Umm, no it's not. The US is easily the largest base for sales and distribution, that's why they pander to us so heavily and sell so few in other parts of the world. It seems to be US, Canada (distant second), Japan, Australia, the rest of the world, but the US seems to be at least 3/4s of Hasbro's market. And yeah, 100k is a very high estimate, it's more likely 50k on its best day and right now maybe 30k.

You are right though that just because there is a small group of collectors who go online and talk about the same problems which matches empirical data, that doesn't mean it's how it really is or takes greater issues into account.



The 1998 EU wave, IIRC, wasn't a separate SKU, and came at (or near) the end of a subline. Those are always underordered, because stores have tons of the less desirable figures Hasbro keeps re-releasing in every case.It was a separate SKU.



Their strategy on EU almost seems to be designed to fail. They insist that EU figures must be in comic packs, though an awful lot of them weren't. Then they release "who?" characters like Basso and Mouse or Deena Shan (again, twice... WTF?), and re-release these sets as nauseum.

Yet, figures who have been highly-demanded for ages take forever to see production (if at all). And many of them are poorly executed (like Talon Karrde, who's, uh, the wrong ethnicity). And they churn out tons of "we can simply slap a different color of paint on this old figure and re-release him in a comic pack!" figures that no one was asking for, like the Mandalorean set from WM a year or so ago.

One thing that could help would be getting retailers to stock collections of the older comics, though that's unlikely.I honestly think the 3 biggest problems for the comic packs was:
1) poor WM exclusives which held those pegs back, cascading into poor overall orders from WM.
2) the price increase from $10 to $13.
3) a really bad series of choices after the 2 Legacy (comic, not brand) sets, consisting of too much bad pacing, overdriven re-releases, and cheap-out repaints right on top of each other.



This is also annoying for the Dark Trooper, as they always seem to be a pain in the butt. The first release was the POTF2 EU wave release, and that was barely existent or not existent at all in some places, then the rerelease was sparse, and sought after by scalpers due to the gold EU coin. The Phase 3 Dark Trooper was an overpriced pain, and didn't even show up here, and now the Phase 1 is in danger. How nice.

I demand a HasbroToyShop-exclusive Dark Trooper Evolutions pack. -_-SECONDED!!! Please post that idea in the Q&A thread.




The funny thing about that statement is at the time Hasbro said TFU was doing exceptionally well. So why did they drop the other waves until now? This is why I don't always take Hasbro at their word.TFU did do well, wave 1 sold extremely well months before the game even came out. It's the failure of TLC basics which tanked things for the TFU 2nd wave of figures, and that's why we are getting these 2 multipacks now. That said, the 2 multipack approach is getting us some figure updates we weren't going to get otherwise, updates to troopers that weren't game-accurate the first time, and such, so that's cool.

El Chuxter
02-06-2010, 04:29 PM
What I meant, JT, is do the buyers actually look at the list of figures, find out exactly what they're from, analyze how much time they've got, etc, or do they just say, "Hmm... six names I've not seen before. As long as it's not Neimoidians, fine by me"?

JediTricks
02-08-2010, 03:57 PM
As I understand it, they know a good portion and Hasbro supplies them with background info on the ones they don't.

bigbarada
02-08-2010, 04:11 PM
Umm, no it's not. The US is easily the largest base for sales and distribution, that's why they pander to us so heavily and sell so few in other parts of the world. It seems to be US, Canada (distant second), Japan, Australia, the rest of the world, but the US seems to be at least 3/4s of Hasbro's market. And yeah, 100k is a very high estimate, it's more likely 50k on its best day and right now maybe 30k.

You are right though that just because there is a small group of collectors who go online and talk about the same problems which matches empirical data, that doesn't mean it's how it really is or takes greater issues into account.

I was saying that the high estimate of 100,000 adult collectors was the tiny fraction of worldwide sales, which would include the entire US market. It made sense to me when I thought it but I'm not necessarily sure that it makes sense when I type it. :cross-eye

Anyways, do we know what the minimum production numbers of any given figure are? In other words, when Hasbro released Ephant Mon in 2002 for $5, then claimed to have lost money on the figure, exactly how many Ephant Mon figures were produced? Over 100,000? Over a million? What's a minimum number of figures that Hasbro has to produce in order to make this whole business profitable (assuming they all sell through)?

pbarnard
02-08-2010, 04:14 PM
I was saying that the high estimate of 100,000 adult collectors was the tiny fraction of worldwide sales, which would include the entire US market. It made sense to me when I thought it but I'm not necessarily sure that it makes sense when I type it. :cross-eye

Anyways, do we know what the minimum production numbers of any given figure are? In other words, when Hasbro released Ephant Mon in 2002 for $5, then claimed to have lost money on the figure, exactly how many Ephant Mon figures were produced? Over 100,000? Over a million? What's a minimum number of figures that Hasbro has to produce in order to make this whole business profitable (assuming they all sell through)?

Hasbro has never released a production run number to date. Don't think they'd start either.

bigbarada
02-08-2010, 04:18 PM
Hasbro has never released a production run number to date. Don't think they'd start either.

I guess I'm just wondering if we know the general ballpark of how many figures of any particular character are made in a single, wide release. Are we talking tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions, or even more?

JediTricks
02-08-2010, 04:34 PM
Back in the day, the numbers we got were 50k for a regular figure and 5k for exclusives. Since then, there's been an increase and then a huge backslide. That's for the US, the market for the entire rest of the world wasn't even a 5th of that, IIRC.

Tycho
02-08-2010, 05:56 PM
I will buy like:

8 Jacens
8 Jainas
5 K'Kruhks
1 Utriss M'Toc

I think that's it. I'm not sure I'll want Shaak-Ti or the Dark Trooper.

I will only be building 1 BG-J38. Please wait until I have these figures or you are finding them and can sell them to me at cost (minus $1 for you to keep the BAD part included with each) and 5-7 people here can get their BG-J38s assembled with my help.

morpheus282
02-08-2010, 06:14 PM
Tycho - where do you keep everything? I don't buy a third of your purchases and I'm running out space quicker than the government can spend money.

Darth Jax
02-08-2010, 06:30 PM
he's got multiple storage units. he has a thread about it somewhere around here.

Tycho
02-09-2010, 01:50 AM
Tycho - where do you keep everything? I don't buy a third of your purchases and I'm running out space quicker than the government can spend money.

Yes, I do have 2 (currently 3) storage units I'm organizing.

I'd like to get a 5 bedroom house eventually to turn the whole thing into my man-cave and have it be a Star Wars museum with a room for each different planet (or groupings of similar looking ones).

Then I'll get rid of the storages.

The plan gives me a goal to work for.

Right now the carded figures (that will be opened - I don't have intentional carded collections) go in boxes by their scene. That is there will not be a box of 8 Jacens. There might be 8 boxes, each with Jaina, and whatever allies or enemies belong with them in a certain scene (like Yuuzhan Vong, Han, Leia, and Luke).

DarkArtist
02-09-2010, 09:23 PM
sorta worried about the exclusive wave but relieved that they will be a sort of break for the moment. I really want this wave of figures especially a few of the Dark Trooper jut not crazy about hunting them through multiple stores.... i hope TRU orders hundreds of cases of this wave so that there is no shortage in the stores. all the TRU's by me still are dry with only a few of the Legends figures, a couple of Blue Cards from the first Jedi wave and the first wave of CW.

Sinscia Fat'o
02-11-2010, 05:43 AM
i ordered this wave from Entertainment earth, i wonder if ill still be getting this wave from them or will my order be canceled?

And if this kind of deal keeps up i guess hasbro can forgey my money goong to them...ive been fed up with the hunt for a while now, and with computer problems...i had to go back to the whole search and destroy the retail aisles...yeah if i dont get my jacen and jainia im F'n done!!! dont even get me started on exar kun comic pack! still have no idea which entity i have to summon up to get that danged thing.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
02-11-2010, 04:23 PM
i ordered this wave from Entertainment earth, i wonder if ill still be getting this wave from them or will my order be canceled?

And if this kind of deal keeps up i guess hasbro can forgey my money goong to them...ive been fed up with the hunt for a while now, and with computer problems...i had to go back to the whole search and destroy the retail aisles...yeah if i dont get my jacen and jainia im F'n done!!! dont even get me started on exar kun comic pack! still have no idea which entity i have to summon up to get that danged thing.
The Exar Kun/Ulic Qel-Droma pack is coming out this spring, I believe, as one of the final five mass retail comic packs.

morpheus282
02-11-2010, 05:56 PM
I could be wrong - and I'll gladly admit it if I am - but I thought retail had seen the end of the comic packs?

JediTricks
02-11-2010, 06:11 PM
Here's the most recent, but certainly not only, answer from Hasbro about the last 5 retail comic packs coming this spring:


HansHideout.blogspot.com: Man, the comic pack situation is getting harder to track with all the cancellations and moves. Any chance you can give us a definative list of which Comic Packs *are* coming in 2010 - basic releases, Walmart exclusives, and 2010 convention exclusives included?
Hasbro: Thanks for the interest and we glad to provide an update. Unfortunately, sales on the Comic Packs really fell last Fall, so the situation has become more dire. What *will* be released: the final Fall wave, shown last year at Comic Con, including the Republic Tholme/T'ra Saa pack, the Tales of the Jedi pack with Exar Kun/Ulic Quel Dromis, the Republic Kashyyyk "Bogey Squad" Clone pack, the Star Wars Early Adventures Black Hole Trooper/droid/Black Hole figure pack, and the Routine Valor Commander Cody Battalion pack. Look for this wave approximately March. The Spring '10 wave has been cancelled, which included the Legacy Delia Blue/Darth Nihl and Knights of the Old Republic Jarael/Rohlan Dyre. We will look to bring these two out in some format in the next couple of years.
The Wal-Mart Fall '10 Comic Pack exclusive assortment has shrunk to two: Star Wars Tales IG-97 and Rohm Moc, and Star Wars X-Wing Rogue Leader and General Weir. These two will be at retail sometime in February. The X-Wing Rogue Squadron pack with Plourr Illo and Dllr Nep has been pulled from the Wal-Mart packs and will be made available through another retailer or as an additional Convention item. It was pulled not to be an exclusive at the shows, but because of the subject matter. There will also be an exclusive Comic Pack debuting at both Comic Con and Celebration V this year. We have not announced them yet, but these will be revealed at Toy Fair.

morpheus282
02-11-2010, 08:51 PM
I admit it. I was wrong.

Sinscia Fat'o
02-17-2010, 08:28 AM
Will online retailers like entertainment earth be getting this wave still? i pre ordered my case of these back in november na dhave been waiting patiently like a good little boy and really want my jacen and jainia...i dont have a toys r us around me and im not paying jacked up prices online for something i preordered anyways! if anyone could shed some light on this i would really be thankful!

bigbarada
02-17-2010, 09:19 AM
Will online retailers like entertainment earth be getting this wave still? i pre ordered my case of these back in november na dhave been waiting patiently like a good little boy and really want my jacen and jainia...i dont have a toys r us around me and im not paying jacked up prices online for something i preordered anyways! if anyone could shed some light on this i would really be thankful!

I would assume that TRU-exclusive means just that and all the online retailers, like EE, will end up canceling their pre-orders. You might still be able to buy them from toysrus.com, but I'm pretty sure that site won't do pre-orders.

This was clearly a last minute change, since orders for the EU wave were so low and it was the only way that Hasbro could prevent canceling the entire wave altogether.

DarkJedi5
02-17-2010, 09:41 AM
I seem to remember them saying in the Q&A that online etailers may get some cases at the end of the run if there are any left. Actually, Hasbro's exact words were "that even the EU wave has become a Toys 'R Us exclusive in May, with some online retailers having access to the last of the run in June." Though who knows of that will happen and which etailers will get it.

Sinscia Fat'o
02-17-2010, 11:20 AM
its crap like this that really makes me get fed up with the whole hobby. if your going to make a wave an exclusive then make it an exclusive dont change it half way through, this is really wrong to do to fans and to etailers...dont know if or what ill do... i guess ill try TRU.com and see what happens here in the next few months, and what really makes me 10 shades of ****ed is that EE hasnt told me anything yet reguarding this wave...im just waiting on them to say yeah well have this out to you in june, or were sorry but hasbro screwed us over too...
Exclusives suck, i was ****ed about the teek being disney exclusive, and now this.

bigbarada
02-17-2010, 12:09 PM
its crap like this that really makes me get fed up with the whole hobby. if your going to make a wave an exclusive then make it an exclusive dont change it half way through, this is really wrong to do to fans and to etailers...dont know if or what ill do... i guess ill try TRU.com and see what happens here in the next few months, and what really makes me 10 shades of ****ed is that EE hasnt told me anything yet reguarding this wave...im just waiting on them to say yeah well have this out to you in june, or were sorry but hasbro screwed us over too...
Exclusives suck, i was ****ed about the teek being disney exclusive, and now this.

It would help if you took some time to learn how this industry works. There are three key links in this chain: Hasbro-Retailers-Consumers. Hasbro doesn't sell toys directly to consumers, they sell them to retailers. If the retailers refuse to buy the toys, then Hasbro is stuck with toys they want to sell, but can't (I know that HTS clouds this a bit, but this is the basic structure that has existed for decades). So, don't blame Hasbro, you're actually lucky that these figures are being released at all. It's the retailers that "screwed you over" here (although it's more like deciding to not risk any more money on a line that has proven to be a poor performer). When orders for this last wave dropped as low as they did, Hasbro could have just as easily cancelled it altogether. However, because of the money they already have invested and because they care about you as a fan, they decided to resell the wave as an exclusive. Because the other option would be that you never see these figures at all.

Basically, you want the figures and Hasbro wants you to buy them. However, only TRU is willing to actually buy a sufficient amount of them from Hasbro, enough to cover their costs, and sell them to you.

So, your anger is misplaced and you should be thankful to Hasbro not hurling insults. With the money Hasbro has invested in the tooling costs for these figures, why in the world would they risk losing money by arbitrarily shifting it from a regular release to an exclusive?

Hasbro is not evil and there is no conspiracy here, it's just another casualty of the economic times we are in combined with the poor sales of Legacy all through 2009. As adults we just have to learn to accept these things.

El Chuxter
02-17-2010, 12:16 PM
It's the retailers that "screwed you over" here (although it's more like deciding to not risk any more money on a line that has proven to be a poor performer).

Or they decided not to risk any more money on a line that looked almost exactly like another line that is a poor performer. (I'm looking at you Plo Koon's Greatest Hits Saga Legends.)

pbarnard
02-17-2010, 12:33 PM
It would help if you took some time to learn how this industry works. There are three key links in this chain: Hasbro-Retailers-Consumers. Hasbro doesn't sell toys directly to consumers, they sell them to retailers. If the retailers refuse to buy the toys, then Hasbro is stuck with toys they want to sell, but can't (I know that HTS clouds this a bit, but this is the basic structure that has existed for decades). So, don't blame Hasbro, you're actually lucky that these figures are being released at all. It's the retailers that "screwed you over" here (although it's more like deciding to not risk any more money on a line that has proven to be a poor performer). When orders for this last wave dropped as low as they did, Hasbro could have just as easily cancelled it altogether. However, because of the money they already have invested and because they care about you as a fan, they decided to resell the wave as an exclusive. Because the other option would be that you never see these figures at all.

Basically, you want the figures and Hasbro wants you to buy them. However, only TRU is willing to actually buy a sufficient amount of them from Hasbro, enough to cover their costs, and sell them to you.

So, your anger is misplaced and you should be thankful to Hasbro not hurling insults. With the money Hasbro has invested in the tooling costs for these figures, why in the world would they risk losing money by arbitrarily shifting it from a regular release to an exclusive?

Hasbro is not evil and there is no conspiracy here, it's just another casualty of the economic times we are in combined with the poor sales of Legacy all through 2009. As adults we just have to learn to accept these things.

*STANDS AND APPLAUDS...THROWS RANDOM WOMENS UNDERWEAR @BigB*

I'm pretty sure Hasbro has subcontracted out DTC through FedEx or whatever it is that FedEx does to help business with online logistics in the airports/warehouses around it's headquarters.

Sinscia Fat'o
02-17-2010, 12:44 PM
Or they decided not to risk any more money on a line that looked almost exactly like another line that is a poor performer. (I'm looking at you Plo Koon's Greatest Hits Saga Legends.)

kinda what i was getting at, the stores i frequent are still filled with legacy peg warmers like piett, yarna, upnaughts, and the saga legends line. now dont get me wrong, im not blaiming hasbro im just a little disgusted that alot of what i buy from them is getting canceled. Now peg warmers arent the fault of hasbro, nor are they our fault espically in this day and age as i to have felt the economic stab in the heart, peg warmers are the fualts of big business who refuse to reduce items down to clearence prices to move them to make room for new product. Take wal mart as a prime example of this. The store i frequent, is still filled with anakin space suits, obi wan from clone wars, the same ol basic one thta has been oput for close to two years now...still with orginal backing...not a newer print of the same figure. How come they wont mark these puppies down? Take the Luke and Dena comic packs...those things have been hanging around forever now and wal mart hasnt even marked them down under 12 bucks in an effort to move them. Knowing what these chains pay for these itmes in disgusting in the first place, espically seeing what we pay for them. If these massive retail stores would watch their inventory and price it to move while still turning a little profit guess what? We would get waves like this to our local stores, instead of having to pay brains toys, or big bad toy store who are going to charge double if not tripple for some of these figures. Do i understand that hasbro is doing everything they can to get these toys to us the consumer, sure i do, i just dont agree with their method on this one. Not every fan or consumer has access to a TRU, or do they have the extra money to fork over a secondary etailer for the products they want. ive just been looking forward to this wave since i heard about it and to see this happen just makes me sick to my stomatch. The comic pack situation was all hasbros fault...not big business or us the consumer. They created a poor program for those things, and suckers like me kept supporting it even though i knew i was supporting a sinking ship. kinda what i feel like im doing with the legacy line. because within the next 3 years the movie line will be a memory, and we'll have either clone wars or a mythological live action TV show to purchase figures from...which is when i really and i do mean really fold.

El Chuxter
02-17-2010, 12:49 PM
Hasbro did drop the ball with the comic packs, I'll agree. Instead of, "So, you folks want Exar Kun and Nomi Sunrider and Corran Horn and Mara Jade and C-3PX and Nom Anor and Jaxxon and maybe Mimban Luke, in short, the same characters you've been consistently asking for for years," it became "follow the further adventures of Luke and Deena 'Who' Shan, as they hang out with their easily repainted friends and fight loads of easily repainted villains."

I'm hoping they won't feel the need to include obvious pegwarmers (Malakili, Willrow, etc) in large numbers with the Neo-Vintage line. (Which is what I'll call it until a consensus is reached, since that's the one I came up with. :p) I think they made more of characters like this in the Legacy line because of the droid parts, even if they don't want to admit it.

pbarnard
02-17-2010, 12:58 PM
Hasbro did drop the ball with the comic packs, I'll agree. Instead of, "So, you folks want Exar Kun and Nomi Sunrider and Corran Horn and Mara Jade and C-3PX and Nom Anor and Jaxxon and maybe Mimban Luke, in short, the same characters you've been consistently asking for for years," it became "follow the further adventures of Luke and Deena 'Who' Shan, as they hang out with their easily repainted friends and fight loads of easily repainted villains."

The problem with the comic packs was never the Deena Shans, but the Clones, and the Han Solo/Chewies. Add to it that the comic line started at around 9.99 maybe as high as 11.99 and card art change it became closer to 13.99-14.99 which totally destroys the value one got for buying 2 figures and a comic reprint. Deena Shan may have become a problem when they were packing her and Luke 2-3 per case while putting in newer ones like Kyle Katarn and Darth Kryat (no matter how much Chux is revolted) at only 1 per case.

Sinscia Fat'o
02-17-2010, 01:14 PM
which is also the problem with the legacy line. If they need to get han and chewie and clones to retail which i agree they do then keep those characters out of legacy...but if its a new sculpt or a verson not yet done then yes but them in legacy...keep repacks out of the main line. Why put evo padme, fett and jango in legacy? It didnt make sense! and it was dang confusin to most common fans. i even had to look twice and go is this new or just a repack...thats what legends are for! though lets face it the eu wave dint get pushed back because of who was in the line, it was actually a pretty good wave, it was pushed back because of of the stock the retailers had, and still have on hand, and will have until fall if not longer. Which is also why the vintage line is been pushed back to far, so hasbro and retialers can clean up this mess of waves being released every other week after week in a three month span. it flooded retailers and left fans having to be picky about what they bought.

Darth Metalmute
02-17-2010, 01:43 PM
It would help if you took some time to learn how this industry works. There are three key links in this chain: Hasbro-Retailers-Consumers. Hasbro doesn't sell toys directly to consumers, they sell them to retailers. If the retailers refuse to buy the toys, then Hasbro is stuck with toys they want to sell, but can't (I know that HTS clouds this a bit, but this is the basic structure that has existed for decades). So, don't blame Hasbro, you're actually lucky that these figures are being released at all. It's the retailers that "screwed you over" here (although it's more like deciding to not risk any more money on a line that has proven to be a poor performer). When orders for this last wave dropped as low as they did, Hasbro could have just as easily cancelled it altogether. However, because of the money they already have invested and because they care about you as a fan, they decided to resell the wave as an exclusive. Because the other option would be that you never see these figures at all.

With that logic, the ones who "screwed us over" are the consumers themselves. If the consumers have bought more product, the retailers would have bought more stock. If the retailers have bought more stock, Hasbro wouldn't have made the line an exclusive.

So put down that loaf of bread, there are still Yarna's on the shelf. You don't need milk this week, you need the 15th version of Darth Maul who only had 10 minutes of air time.:twisted:

The truth is, it's everybodys fault. It's Hasbro's fault for re-releasing the same figures over and over. It's the retailers fault for not knowing exactly what they are selling. It's our fault for being so addicted that we want every single figure every invented in every outfit made, yet complain when these figures sit on the pegs.

El Chuxter
02-17-2010, 01:44 PM
Even if I can't stand Legacy (the comic), I'm not dumb enough to honestly think everyone else is as enlightened as I am. :p Repacks were probably the main cause; anyone who wanted Ki-Adi and Sharad got that set the first time around, not in the subsequent re-releases. Then there were the silly Marvel repacks of main characters who were available in the Legacy and/or Legends line at the same time, for less.

I do stand by my accusation of Deena Shan, though. If someone is such a scrape-the-bottom character that even most fans don't know her, she doesn't need two sets within a year. Especially if they're both with Luke Skywalker in disguise.

Darth Metalmute
02-17-2010, 01:56 PM
Even if I can't stand Legacy (the comic), I'm not dumb enough to honestly think everyone else is as enlightened as I am. :p

Let's face it, Legacy ruined our chances of getting more Zahn Trilogy figures.


I do stand by my accusation of Deena Shan, though. If someone is such a scrape-the-bottom character that even most fans don't know her, she doesn't need two sets within a year. Especially if they're both with Luke Skywalker in disguise.

And if your going to do a character like Deena Shan make it an exclusive like they are doing with Camie and Fixer.

JediTricks
02-17-2010, 04:21 PM
its crap like this that really makes me get fed up with the whole hobby. if your going to make a wave an exclusive then make it an exclusive dont change it half way through, this is really wrong to do to fans and to etailers...dont know if or what ill do... i guess ill try TRU.com and see what happens here in the next few months, and what really makes me 10 shades of ****ed is that EE hasnt told me anything yet reguarding this wave...im just waiting on them to say yeah well have this out to you in june, or were sorry but hasbro screwed us over too...
Exclusives suck, i was ****ed about the teek being disney exclusive, and now this.They didn't want to make the wave exclusive, the situation with the rest of the line doomed the wave and this was the only way to get it into collectors' hands. EE probably doesn't know how many cases they're getting, IF they're getting any, until late in the game.

Tycho
02-17-2010, 05:09 PM
Legacy is NOT pegwarming.

Luke & Deena - at Wal-Mart

Xizor & Leia - at Wal-Mart and Target (SOTE!!!)

Thrawn & Karrde - at Wal-Mart and Target (Zahn / HTTE!!!)


The thing is, SOTE and HTTE (classic OT Star Wars EU would sell if they'd have helped the line further along with more offerings, less Marvel repaints, etc.)

Having me the guys running the show for Star Wars at Hasbro every year now for going on 15 years or something, I know they wanted to bring out Nomi Sunrider, Spiker, Nom Anor, Guri, etc.

Why would they bring out "Marvel Comics colored Han & Chewie, Tarkin & Trooper, etc.?"

1) breaking even with costs. I don't think the line was nearly as successful as they used to laud it (though I LOVE this line - and keep that in mind) - so they repainted stuff they already had tooling for. "Pink Chewbacca" costs less than an all-knew Zayne Carrick from KOTOR which would have to be tooled and sculpted. Since Pink Chewbacca is cheap to make - they can re-invest money from his sales to the Zayne Carrick mold. Then they could give us Carrick, while barely keeping in the black.

2) padding profit from impulse sales. There are no Grand Moff Tarkin figures available right now - and there hasn't been since the young Tarkin in 2005 - so creating Purple-Polka-Dotted-Tarkin and selling them to someone buying a gift for whoever wants Tarkin (or a Stormtrooper and Imperial Officer as someone unfamiliar with the hobby would see them) they gain and easy sale. Why do companies produce cheap stuff that end up in gumball machines? Same reason. So if they sell Polka-Tarkin when they can't afford to tool up Nomi Sunrider, they try to get the money together that they'll need to offer Nomi. Or they could do nothing and never be able to finance her. Do they want to offer Nomi Sunrider? Of course! Many of us would buy her, so all they have to do is make her and sell her for more than it cost to make her. How come YOU don't just make her yourself (from scratch)? Well, you would also need a plastics press, metal and rubber works, an artist to sculpt the original (unless you're that good) etc. So if you were set on doing this, you'd do other work (your job) until you saved money to buy your own factory. Hasbro has a job - they are doing it to make more money and expand their factory. The easiest way they can do it sucks - but it makes them some money - that is Pink Chewbacca and Polka-Tarkin. It would be worse if they were to shut-down production and shipping and lose interest while they saved money until they could afford to make Nomi Sunrider. Smaller companies have fewer employees. Maybe Hasbro could get some of that stimulus money.

3) Yup - pegwarming Tarkin is better than re-inventing the line after massive cutbacks while they sold nothing until they could tool up new product. It's always an adjustment. If I were Hasbro, I'd say that Comic Packs were NOT cancelled, but on a 2 year hiatus or something. Then I'd save up the money and continue:

SOTE:

Luke Tan Vest and Guri
New Dash and Leebo
New Leia Boussh and Chewie
Lando in armor disguise and Koth Melan (Bothan Spy Master)
Spiker and Big Gizz (or make them as small vehicle sets with their swoops)
Black Sun Thug and Guri in a different outfit

(there were 6 issues of SOTE in comics and we already have Leia / Xizor)

HTTE:

C'Boath and Clone Luuke
Palleon and Rukh (Noghri)
Leia Jedi Apprentice (pregnant) and Kahbarakh (Noghri)
Han Solo and Shadda D'Ukal (Mystril Sister - could look "Tonnika" even)
Chewbacca and Noghri Commando
Rawlra (Wookiee warrior) and Leia Night Wear (cut-off top and bikini bottom - hot!)
General Garm Bel Ibis and Agent Irenz (Correllian Spy)
Niles Ferrier and Wraith (a Defel like in the Mos Eisley Cantina)
Lando Calrissian (Nkllon Mining Baron) and General Covell (Imperial)

There were 18 issues of HTTE (between the 3 books) and we've only gotten 2. Here's 9 more for a total of 11.

morpheus282
02-17-2010, 08:50 PM
*STANDS AND APPLAUDS...THROWS RANDOM WOMENS UNDERWEAR @BigB*


Random underwear or underwear from random women?? Either way, it could get rather ugly rather quickly if it's too random.

Roseanne Barr, anyone?

morpheus282
02-17-2010, 09:41 PM
Even if I can't stand Legacy (the comic), I'm not dumb enough to honestly think everyone else is as enlightened as I am. :p


Awww, come on now. Legacy gave us Darth Talon.


Mmmmm... Darth Talon... :D

El Chuxter
02-18-2010, 12:04 AM
A half-naked Twi'lek with Maul tattoos? They should've just called her Darth Fanwank. ;)

bigbarada
02-18-2010, 12:43 AM
A half-naked Twi'lek with Maul tattoos? They should've just called her Darth Fanwank. ;)

That's why I completely ignored Legacy from the start. Such blatant pandering to horny fanboys is just pathetic. Star Wars should never have been degraded down to fanwank material.

bikerscout
02-18-2010, 04:02 AM
despite the lack of BJ elbows, Talon is a great figure. Good paint apps. (Doesn't hurt that she's really damn hot either!!!!! :love:)

morpheus282
02-18-2010, 09:06 AM
A half-naked Twi'lek with Maul tattoos? They should've just called her Darth Fanwank. ;)

Works for me.

pbarnard
02-18-2010, 09:32 AM
A half-naked Twi'lek with Maul tattoos? They should've just called her Darth Fanwank. ;)


That's why I completely ignored Legacy from the start. Such blatant pandering to horny fanboys is just pathetic. Star Wars should never have been degraded down to fanwank material.

When you put her appearance in contrast to a Zeltron, definitely created for the original SW comics by authors definitely influenced having come out of the free love era a few years prior, it adds an over sexualized bad girl to the over sexualized good girl. She's definitely not the problem in comic packs and seems to sell through fairly decent.

morpheus282
02-18-2010, 10:30 AM
Let's not forget the plethora of fanwank that was given to us by Mr. Lucas himself.

Aayla Secura
Oola
Lynn Me
And the Holy Grail of fanwank:
Slave Leia

Darth Talon has quite a bit of competition there.

DarkJedi5
02-18-2010, 10:56 AM
Actually Aayla Secura was created by Jan Dursma and then incorporated into the films (granted, because Lucas liked the look of her).

sonofsokol
02-18-2010, 11:25 AM
despite the lack of BJ elbows, Talon is a great figure. Good paint apps. (Doesn't hurt that she's really damn hot either!!!!! :love:)

I know that there is a joke in there somewhere... It took me a bit to come up with "Ball-Jointed" elbows...

The Comic Packs that seem(ed) to just sit on the shelves here are/were

Leia and Xizor - There was a pile of these at Kroger (Smiths Market Place) for less than $3 and they just sat there for weeks after Christmas.
Anakin and Durge
Anakin and Assasin Droid
Janek Sunbar and Amanin
Ibitsam and Nrin Vakil

El Chuxter
02-18-2010, 01:06 PM
It's not that she's a half-naked Twi'lek that makes her ridiculous. It's that it seems like they sat there and tried to come up with everything that fans like about flash-in-the-pan characters like Maul and (sorry) Boba Fett. All the Legacy Sith Lords have that feel, but she's the worst. "Hey, fans like Quarrens, and Yuuzhan Vong, and, you know, they really like half-naked Twi'leks. And if we give her Maul tattoos over her entire body, they'll really dig that!" I would not be surprised if she was secretly a Jedi from the old order who went underground, became a bounty hunter working for the Imperials, and got into a fight with Han Solo when he was a kid, because that's about the only goofy fanwank nods they didn't work in.

bigbarada
02-18-2010, 01:51 PM
Let's not forget the plethora of fanwank that was given to us by Mr. Lucas himself.

Aayla Secura
Oola
Lynn Me
And the Holy Grail of fanwank:
Slave Leia

Darth Talon has quite a bit of competition there.

Slave Leia, Oola and Lynn Me at least have some sort of contextual reason for dressing the way they do.

Aayla Secura is just the slutty Jedi tramp from Ep2 and definitely falls into the fanwank category.

Darth Talon is lame because it's so obvious that she's just a mishmash of Oola and Darth Maul. There is absolutely zero creativity in her design, she's just a marketing ploy.

JediTricks
02-18-2010, 03:50 PM
Is Darth Talon pandering to fanboys? Painfully so. Does that make her a bad choice for an action figure? Not really. She's visually exciting in more ways than one, she looks dangerous, even if her lack of costume is rather ludicrous. But surely she's not the first nearly-naked female warrior out there, comics have been full of them for decades, look at Red Sonja, Marvel's "She-Devil with a Sword", her so-called 'armor' is only there to keep the government from tearing the publisher's walls down, it serves no other purpose - it's part of what makes her a sexy lady-barbarian. So what's the point of arguing it? Surely Talon isn't the first character in the OT to pander to fanboys, right? Look at Boba Fett if you want to go further back than Slave Leia, that character was overhyped and manufactured to sell toys, doesn't mean it's not cool. Life's too important to get riled up over this sort of thing, just recognize they're trying to play you and enjoy what you want without letting them get entirely over on you.

El Chuxter
02-18-2010, 04:09 PM
I'm not riled up. I just have no place for that figure and think she's silly. Maybe if I decide to get Cyborg Maul and use her as his girlfriend, or something....

Red Sonja at least had the somewhat logical explanation that she lived in an ancient time when clothing technology wasn't what it is now. And the dudes were just as half-naked, and, I'm sure if there were fat old ladies in the comic, they'd be half-naked, too. :)

Old Fossil
02-18-2010, 05:06 PM
Darth Talon has no place in a respectable Star Wars action figure collection.

I have one, loose.:grin:

Tycho
02-21-2010, 05:11 PM
It figures to me that Twi'lek females were often sold by their clans or even their own fathers as sexual slaves, and hence are taught to dress that way and take pride in themselves and their keeping their form. Thus they fetch good standards of living for themselves and good dowries for their fathers.

Star Wars has never explored what happens to them when they get older and are no longer desireable. In real life, we have infidelity and divorce which happens after 5-15 years of marriage while the husband pretends to be someone he's not (and hides the SW collection in the man-cave) and then gets tired of it after his wife doesn't hold the looks he married her for. But no one wants to hear the truth so I'll get back to action figures... Oh - I was talking about them in the first place. Right.

I did forget, there was a female Twi'lek slave who was the mother of a young girl when Obi-Wan and Anakin infiltrated a slaving operation in Jedi Quest (the first book was also made into a comic and Anakin kills the slaver who had long ago captured his mother). This Twi'lek slave mined, cooked, and washed dishes if I recall. Obi-Wan used a disguise to infiltrate but his Jedi girlfriend Siri Taichi was already working the operation, although her loyalties were in question.

What this has to do with Aayla Secura? I always thought that a female Twi'lek (from an Outer Rim world) who happened to be a Jedi Knight could keep her identity much better hidden if she looked exactly like she was expected to.

In fact, in my SW displays, I plan to use Aayla (as herself) also as Orm Fre Taa's concubine (along with Shaaka) to suggest the Jedi (in my diorama stories) were already spying on Orm Fre Taa. With my idea, he unknowingly bought Aayla, thinking she was just a slave girl, and the Jedi had one more source of intelligence planted amongst his courteours.

Darth Talon does seem to be fan-wank material, forcing some charged sexuality into Legacy (well served by characters like Deliah Blue anyway) nevertheless using to spur initial sales. Maybe there was a good reason for her to dress this way, but once she got her Sith tattoos, disguise hardly seemed to be the reason unless people took her to be a Sith slave rather than a Sith Lord?

I doubt Talon could carry herself humbly, like a slave, though.

Major Karr
03-10-2010, 04:01 PM
A TRU in VA has a sidecap for preordering action figures - Clash of Titans, Jason, Iron Man - but the EU wave was not listed. It was a take this tag to the register deal, but it no tags at all. Wonder if they will go this route for EU.

JediTricks
03-10-2010, 06:36 PM
A TRU in VA has a sidecap for preordering action figures - Clash of Titans, Jason, Iron Man - but the EU wave was not listed. It was a take this tag to the register deal, but it no tags at all. Wonder if they will go this route for EU.
I highly doubt it. That sidekick is here too, and none of the figures on it look like anything anybody would actually need to preorder. I think it's only for figures like Heroes nuclear Peter Petrelli, figures nobody wants and won't be hard to get, but TRU takes because the manufacturer wants to get rid of them.

bikerscout
03-10-2010, 09:43 PM
let's hope the 6.99 basic figure price point sticks around

DarkArtist
03-11-2010, 10:19 AM
A TRU in VA has a sidecap for preordering action figures - Clash of Titans, Jason, Iron Man - but the EU wave was not listed. It was a take this tag to the register deal, but it no tags at all. Wonder if they will go this route for EU.

have yet to see one of these...might have to keep my eyes open...really hoping TRU over orders this wave and it is massively available...i really want a couple of the Phase 1 Darktrooper and SpaceTrooper. also wouldn't mind a few Jacen's and Jaina's for customizing

TheDarthVader
03-12-2010, 01:02 AM
I am just interested in jabba's droid and the alien jedi.