PDA

View Full Version : If there could only be ten more EU figures, who do you want and why?



El Chuxter
02-17-2010, 01:40 PM
Chukha-Trok (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Chukha-Trok): We know he at least made it to the prototype stage, but that may or may not mean anything in the long run. All kidding about him aside, he's a unique Ewok (and Ewoks sell), and he has the unique distinction of being a non-ROTJ adult Ewok who appeared in both the live-action Ewok movies and the cartoon.

Jaxxon (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jaxxon): He's the epitome of everything the Marvel comic was: goofy. No matter how they might try to make bits of pieces of the comic "cool" now, it was goofy. Jaxxon's already been established as being a bounty hunter during the Clone Wars, so he could make an appearance on that show at some point, and I imagine kids would love him. He's actually one of the few characters who would work equally well done realistically or in animated style.

Lumpawarrump (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lumpy): Trimming down Chewie's family to only get one in is painful. I'd like to have the whole family, but, if I can only take one, Lumpy has the most screen time. Malla's Chewie with a dress, and Itchy looks more like a puppy than a Wookiee. And there are no Wookiee kids right now.

Bollux (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bollux) and Blue Max (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Blue_Max): A cool-looking droid from the 1970s Han Solo novels, with another cool-looking droid who lives in his chest. He's the only character from these novels who really stands out (can't say I'm clamoring for a Gallandro figure), and, well, he's a cool droid.

Joruus C'baoth (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Joruus): Probably the most important unmade figure from the Thrawn Trilogy. An advantage to Joruus would be that, if you don't like the EU, he's an older Jedi with a very long beard, which is cool in and of itself.

Guri (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Guri): Somehow, despite her importance in the Shadows of the Empire book and comic, despite her being the only new character to not suck, and despite people literally begging for her for over ten years, she remains unproduced.

Jedi Master Kyp Durron (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kyp): One of the most important EU Jedi, he probably should've been produced before NJO Luke, to be honest. I'd prefer him as a cocky Jedi Master rather than a punk kid.

Jedi Master Corran Horn (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Corran): We got a Corran last year in the Wal-Mart sets, but not the one anyone preferred. We need him as a Jedi Master, older and wearing green robes. Yet another who could be a generic prequel Jedi if someone wants.

Siri Tachi (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Siri): A female Jedi about Obi-Wan's age. There really don't seem to be enough girl Jedis (disregarding the insane number of Aayla resculpts).

Nelvaan Mutant (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_of_Nelvaan): These things are awesome. I would've preferred one of these to most of the other Tartakovsky figures we got.

pbarnard
02-17-2010, 02:07 PM
I'm going by "impact" factor. That means they weren't just one shot characters, or throw away villians, they recurred across sources for years (if not decades).

Kyp Durron, Jedi Aprentice/Exar Kuhn pupil. It's how most people think of Kyp even if it was so fleeting and could stand as his younger version.
Kyp Durron, Jedi Master: Older, not always the wiser, longer hair is a must.

Corran Horn Jedi. Don't care if Knight or Master, grey beard or not.

Tahiri Viella, post shaping. Or is it Rina Kawad? Either way, the barefooted dual minded Jee'dai who was shaped is a big one.

Admiral Gilliad Pelleon.

Yuuzhan Vong Warrior that isn't on steroids. Please, some one at Hasbro read the actual description unlike the DH artists!!!! If you can't read it, I will cover for your illiteracy again and read it to you. Even explain what the words mean by using simpler synonyms and syntax (or since it is close enough, use the Legacy work which obviously had an artist who read the descriptions).

Bullox and Blue Max, like Chux says.

Ben Skywalker/Anakin Solo. Since both are in the 14-16 age range in their prominent features, a simple head variant/paint applicaiton would suffice. Not sure if that would count as or not.

Jaxxon for the cheese factor of his time and being the earliest of early EU.

And depending on how you cound Ben/Anakin Kennth Hamner. Older non-descript man who can fit in as a prequal Jedi if you won't take who he is.

No Fem-bot, no touching the forbidden zone that is the Holiday Special.

Sinscia Fat'o
02-17-2010, 02:39 PM
1. Nomi Sunrider (TOTJ Awesome EU)
2. Jacen Solo as a Sith Darth Caedeus (Best star wars saga ever being legacy novels.)
3.Ben Skywalker (See above)
4. Guri (Awesome character, SW version of the termenator!)
5. Alema Ra (Twlieks are sweet come on and she's insane)
6. Anakin Solo (He's a solo!)
7. Sprit of Exar Kun (Just my favorite character who needs to be made)
8. Jag Fel (Mando gear prefered)
9. Vong Warriors (Fodder)
10.kyp durron why not another awesome jedi

Runners Up
Suri Tachi, who doesn't want a sarah michelle gellar jedi figure
Jaxxon, cool character early Eu, lumiya got love why not Jaxxon
Jorus C Both, needs to be done.
Lowbacca, even though lucas wont allow it, no wookie jedis you say!?
Young Han Solo from the Corporate sector novels. would be cool.

mtriv73
02-17-2010, 02:40 PM
a decent Vong figure

Guri

Ben Skywalker

a killik

Tahiri

Darth Bane's apprentice Darth Zannah (Sith hotties make great figures)

Shado Val

Darth Nihl

Wolf Sazen

Darth Maladi

Darth Metalmute
02-17-2010, 02:58 PM
You will find most of mine are from the Thrawn Trilogy.

1. Admiral Gilliad Pelleon - Not just because of his importance to Post PT EU, but also because he coudl be used as a background character in a Star Destroyer display.

2. C'baoth - We have Jade, we have Luke; we need a dark jedi to fight.

3. Guri - She would pretty much complete the Shadows figure line. Minus Leebo.

4. Leebo - Kidding.
4. Tsavong Lah - Need a Vong comander.

5. Garm Bel Iblis

6. Bastila Shan

7. Carth Onasi w/ T3-M4 - I want the droid, but don't want to waste a pick.

8. Admiral Daala

9. Norghi

10. Arden Lyn

I would add Anakin Solo and Nom Anor but I think we are getting them. I would have placed Horn as well but feel that since we have one from the Walmart 2 packs that I wouldn't hold my breath for another one.

JediTricks
02-17-2010, 04:05 PM
I'm not a big EU guy, but here's what I'd like to see.



Guri - the very notion of this character is exciting, she's a killer robot meant to look like a beautiful woman, and the right hand of a powerful mafia boss. She played a huge role in SOTE, and I've always wanted her as an action figure. She was possibly slated for a comic pack before the line crashed.
Dash Rendar - a new main guy, Dash may be a Han ripoff but he did it with his own attitude. The original figure was worthless crap from hair to boots and even weapons. Dash deserved better. Plus, Dash was the star of one of the best Star Wars games of all time.
Leebo - Dash's droid companion, the only other person to hang out on The Outrider. Dash's version of Chewbacca.
Joruus C'baoth - the mad Jedi clone's machinations nearly tore the galaxy apart and wrecked Luke & Leia. His existence would give Mara Jade figures more context, since he is her character's final turning point.
Noghri - Anyway, the Noghri were extremely important to the Thrawn trilogy and need to be made, especially Rukh. I don't really like the comics' look for the race though, it doesn't fit how I pictured them in the novels. Also, the death of comic packs took out the Noghri that was planned.
Darktrooper - from SW Battlefront series of video games. It's a totally different design, and a hateful class to play because it's so cheap. But it's also cool looking, and sports an arc-caster (which annoyingly just looks like a regular E-11 blaster).
Jerec - from Dark Forces 2: Jedi Knight. I didn't know he had been retconned into being Jocasta Nu's apprentice, that is some really weird stuff. But he's a blind dark Jedi and has a look that isn't your standard Sith crap.
Jan Ors - Kyle Katarn's sidekick from the Dark Forces series, she's not a particularly exciting action figure, but she's been through some serious stuff.
Gorc & Pic - from Dark Forces 2: Jedi Knight. Evil dark Jedi "twins", one is a Gamorrean, the other a Kowakian Monkey Lizard. It's just something different.
Ackmena - ha! Didn't see that coming, didja??? But Darth Maude deserves an action figure. Her musical turn in Chalmun's Cantina interacted with a lot of aliens and did her bit to fight the Empire... in her own way.

One would think, Chux, that with your avatar, I wouldn't be the first one asking for Ackmena in your thread here. Personally, I find Chewie's whole family to be icky.

bigbarada
02-17-2010, 05:12 PM
I'm having trouble ranking all the figures I would want so I'm going to break it down by source material:

The Ewok Adventure (Caravan of Courage)

Chukha-Trok
Kaink (with her full robe and not just a crappy soft-goods hood)

Ewoks animated series (all of these figures would be sculpted as they appeared in the cartoon - animated styling)

Paploo
Weechee
Chukha-Trok
Kaink

Droids animated series (these could be realistic or animated style)

Jann Tosh
Vlix

That's only 8 but filling the last two slots will take a lot more consideration. These are all the "no brainers" for me.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
02-17-2010, 05:46 PM
1. Jaxxon
2. Lumpy
3. Itchy
4. Malla
5. Ackmena
6. Kneesa
7. No more EU figures. :D

Ji'dai
02-17-2010, 05:47 PM
I dig EU but there are only three sources that I really truly love. So if there are only going to be 10 more EU figures, then these are the ones I want the most:

Droids (1985) - 25th Anniversary!
1. Admiral Screed
2. Jessica Meade
3. Mungo Baobab

Tales of the Jedi (1994-1997) - everything the prequels should've been
4. Nomi Sunrider
5. Exar Kun
6. Ulic-Qel Droma
7. Vodo-Siosk Baas
8. Master Thon

Dark Forces (1995) - 15th Anniversary
9. Jan Ors
10. Dark Trooper Phase III

LTBasker
02-17-2010, 08:02 PM
1. Jerec (Dark Forces 2: Jedi Knight) - Bald, blind, and bloody lethal, this guy is one of the best Expanded Universe "dark jedi" to ever be created.
2. Jan Ors (Dark Forces 2: Jedi Knight) - Kyle wouldn't be able to survive without Jan frequently watching his back, and he shouldn't go solo in figure form either. Plus, her actress is quite a looker.
3. Maw (Dark Forces 2: Jedi Knight) - Despite being one of three "dark jedi" to not have a live action actor for the cutscenes, this character was brutal and the alien look just begs for a figure. Plus, he mastered the art of seeking vengeance despite being separated from his legs long before that pansy Darth Maul was even conceptualized.
4. Dash Rendar (Shadows of the Empire) - I loved the POTF2 figure quite a bit, but he inarguably deserves an upgrade, and has for a long time.
5. Leebo (Shadows of the Empire) - Hasbro seriously missed a great comic 2-pack by not using the line to release Leebo and Dash.
6. Sariss (Dark Forces 2: Jedi Knight) - Like Kyle, Jerec would be nothing without a female partner watching his back and if Jerec ever gets made, Sariss should get made.
7. 8t88 (Dark Forces 2: Jedi Knight) - He's a droid, and he's cool.
8. Gorc & Pic (Dark Forces 2: Jedi Knight) - What JT said.
9. Boc (Dark Forces 2: Jedi Knight) - Crazy Twi'lek that dual wields lightsaber, not much else needs to be said.
10. Tenel Ka (Young Jedi Knights - My favorite character from the YJK series, her unique story along with losing a limb and denying a robotic replacement brought a lot to the series.

autumnsdescent
02-17-2010, 08:33 PM
@ JediTricks:

As mediocre as they were, Hasbro did produce Dash Rendar and Dark Troopers in the late 90's. Perhaps you are referring to re-do's with full articulation?

--------------------
I enjoyed the Thrawn trilogy, but I'm not all that eager to have figs from that saga. I'll probably be one of the minorities in the sense that I would thoroughly enjoy EU characters from the KOTOR video games being made:

1. Bastila
2. Carth Onasi
3. Mission Vao
4. T3-M4
5. Sith trooper (army builder) from original KOTOR
6. Selkath
7. Juhani
8. Darth Sion
9. Kreia
10. Mira


And there's probably going to be quite a few characters from The Old Republic that will be cool as well...

Tycho
02-17-2010, 08:35 PM
In no particular order. I need them all anyway.

NJO Han Solo in his 50's
SOTE Guri
HTTE Joruus C'Boath
HTTE Capt. / Adm. Palleon
HTTE Noghri
NJO Tsavong Lah
LEG Darth Caedus
LEG Ben Skywalker
TOTJ Nomi Sunrider
NJO Leia in her 40's

Probably something like that. I'm really missing Anakin Solo on my list!

Hasbro should note that NJO, HTTE, and SOTE are topping most folks' comic and novel EU list, and though I'm not in support, Dark Forces video games do really well, too. They know about KOTOR.

JediTricks
02-17-2010, 11:58 PM
@ JediTricks:

As mediocre as they were, Hasbro did produce Dash Rendar and Dark Troopers in the late 90's. Perhaps you are referring to re-do's with full articulation?I already addressed both issues in my comments. A new Dash with better sculpting, and Darktrooper from SW:Battlefront is a different design.

El Chuxter
02-18-2010, 12:05 AM
I'm not trying to diminish anyone else's picks, but I tried to get ten that I wanted and might actually sell to at least fourteen other people. :p

LTBasker
02-18-2010, 12:33 AM
You simply asked us what do "you," as in I the reader, want, and why. Considerations for other people were not a requisite, and thus they can let their own wishlists speak. :razz:

bigbarada
02-18-2010, 12:36 AM
I'm not trying to diminish anyone else's picks, but I tried to get ten that I wanted and might actually sell to at least fourteen other people. :p

I can guarantee that all of my picks would result in stampedes in the stores and worldwide plastic shortages as Hasbro tries to keep up with demand.

Phantom-like Menace
02-18-2010, 12:59 AM
Guri-- I've never been a fan of SotE, but the two best things about it were Guri, who Hasbro ignores as much as possible, and the Outrider, which Hasbro turned into a travesty of a toy.

Bastila Shan w/T3-M4-- Not a fan of her look, but I liked the character. And like Darth Metalmute, I'm cheating and tucking T3-M4 in there, because he just has to go with the HK-47 that proved completely impossible to find . . . thank you very much Hasbro.

Ahsoka Tano (realistic sculpt)-- Love her, hate her, or tolerate her, she's an enormously important character now outside of the movies.

Anakin Solo-- Not only should the character have never died, since he was the best thing going for the NJO, but this figure needs to be made, especially since we're getting his siblings.

Admiral Gilad Pellaeon-- We don't have him yet? Way to blow it Hasbro.

Joruus C'Baoth-- I don't care for him, but he's significantly important to arguably the best loved Star Wars novel trilogy.

Rukh-- The last major Thrawn Trilogy character I want made. We need someone to keep our Thrawn figure in check!

Kal Skirata-- I love Mando figures, and the last ones being hideous comic figures covered in clown makeup, I'd really like to pick up one that doesn't look like it was colored by a preschooler.

Darth Sion-- Unique looking Sith, and who doesn't like Sith? He'd go great with Darth Nihilus.

Kyp Durron-- I've disliked him since the beginning, but he is a significant part of the EU.

Cane_Adiss
02-18-2010, 10:37 AM
JT, your list is almost perfect! I'd swap out probably Jan Ors for the Revwien concept art figure and Joruus C'Baoth for Ket Maliss. Otherwise your list is pretty much what I would most like to see. I'm a big SOTE fan and both Guri and Leebo have left pretty big holes in that line.

I'd also like Hasbro to make the rest of the unique Holiday Special cantina aliens:

Myhr Rho
Cebann Veekan
Y'bith
Thorp

RENDAR LIVES
02-18-2010, 10:38 AM
So hard to choose such a small list from so many cool characters. There are a dozen or so movie figures I think need to be updated but I would gladly sacrifice any new movie based figures for these EU choices.

1-Anakin Solo as he appeared on the novel covers with flight suit and jacket rather than the Invasion comics where he looks much youger than he was in that period. He was so awsome they even state in the latest novel that there hasn't been a Jedi like him since.

2-Hondo Karr in his Beskar Gam. Sure black and gold is plain but the outfit is very distinguishable and this guy has been an Imperial, Mando, and a rogue.

3-Shado Vao. The guy has a very interesting look mixing Jedi robes with pieces of armor. He's bad *** with that double bladed lightsaber and moderately cocky too.

4-Siri Tachi as Zora. She is cool enough as a Jedi and all but her undercover bounty hunter disguise makes her stand out a little more as an individual.

5-Nom Anor. Iether version is okay with me. Many see him as the Starscream of Star Wars. Sure he was a coniving backstabber but his personality went so much deeper. There were times he had doubts or believed in his peoples faith. He was clever and even though he was out for himself you never really knew where he was gonna end up next. I can't remember, did he die in the end or survive?

6-Tahiri Veilah post shaping. Like Hondo Karr she is another character that has pretty much done it all. She has been a Jedi, a Sith, a Vong, and a bounty hunter.

7-Ben Skywalker. He is basically the next inevitable step in the blood line from Anakin. Obviously the Skywalkers continue to be pivotal characters if not the most important ones for generations to come. I loved what they did with him in the NJO series but so far in the Legacy series he hasn't really developed as a character.

8-Corran Horn as a Jedi. One of my all time favorite characters. The smart *** of the Jedi. Green robes and silver bladed saber. I agree that with or with out the beard it wouldn't make or break this character.

9-Vestarah Khai. I'm really digging the development of this character and the ancient Sith order that seems to be connected to the "true Sith" from KOTOR and Revan. Besides knowing Krayte's Sith order is out there as well, I can't help but dream of these two factions colliding in their bid for power. She doesn't wear the traditional robes and carries an unconventional purple glass knife as well as an ancient lightsaber.

10-Hondo Karr's ex-wife (I cannot remember her name). Her Mando armor was very different from anything I have seen this far and deserves a figure on that merit alone. Just for diversity's sake and it's a female.

Of course there is more but characters like Plaguis that could be remedied by using San Hill with a black robe. I love Aleema Rar but the blue Twi'lek chick thing is kinda getting out played. I know she is different but right now it doesn't seem necessary. Abeloth is a cool character but I don't see her as a fun toy. Cilgal is a must for me at some point. I know she isn't a action type character but she is important none the less. Kind of like Luke's most trusted advisor. But Nadarr Vebb will tide me over for Mon Cal Jedi's at least a little while. Kypp Durron is important as a character as well as, Zekk, Jagged Fel, Tenel Ka, Lowbacca, Raynar Thul post Swarm War, Ganner Rhysode, Mezaan Kwaad, Nen Yim, Shimraa Jermaan, Onimi, Nomi Sunrider, Tott Donetta, Sylvar, and Vima Sunrider. Though if I could only have the 10 above I'd have to make sacrifices.

ChukhaTrok76
02-18-2010, 11:17 AM
Be forewarned,all of mine are from the Ewok movies. That being said:

1. Chukha-Trok with axe and breastplate.
Why: Duh, he's the baddest Ewok mofo around.

2. Deej Warrick with knife and white wings of courage.
Why: He's Wicket and Widdle's father and the one to kick off the storyline in "Caravan of Courage".

3. Shodu Warrick with baby Winda.
Why: She's a female Ewok and a momma! In retrospect, I guess they could do a Deej/Shoudu 2-pack.

4. Weechee Warrick with spear and blue wings of Hope.
Why: Wicket's older brother and a brave warrior. He was slated for series II of the Ewok Animated figures but never made it beyond the prototype stage and those command high prices.

5. Cindel Towani with life monitor.
Why: Cindel is a sweet character and she became a reporter in the New Reppublic later. She would also appeal to little girls.

6. Terack and Charal with sword and mask and cloak and raven.
Why: Terack is one scary bad guy and Charal would be a cool Nightsister to have. think how cool the sculpts could be!

7. Noah Briqualin with Teek and battle staff
Why: Yes, it's Wilford Brimley, but c'mon, Cindel would never have made it off Endor if she'd never met Noah and Teek. Plus a Teek that's not a Star Tours exclusive would be nice!

8. Sanyassan Maurader warrior with gun and sword or battle horn.
Why: Strike terror into your Ewoks! Or have the Ewoks whop him. I want that cool little one, i think he's the general.

9. Kaink with hood, cloak, and crystal staff.
Why: It'd be nice to have a Kaink who wasn't a Star Tours exclusive, and the one coming out doesn't have her cloak or her staff. She's basically a Keoulkeech repaint with a piece of felt wrapped around her head. I know Hasbro loves cutting costs, but c'mon...

10. Logray w/ crytal immage spinner and staff. Caravan of Courage style.
Why: Didn't Logray look uber creepy on that movie? Plus the image spinner could double as a top, to make it actually spin! Logray would have the dark grey and white patterning to his fur and that long beard.

Runners up: Jaxxon and Lumpawarrump. I agree strongly on them. Unfourtunately for Big Barrada and myself (and others) chances of us seeing any Ewoks and Droids animated figures are non-existant. Hasbro has refused to make them due to extensive re-tooling put forth from Lucasfilm. i read that somewhere. :(

dindae
02-19-2010, 02:43 PM
I'm really bummed that the comic packs are going away. I think that Hasbro really wasted the opportunity with this line by just making weird choices that really seemed to miss the mark with me. And finally they started making some that I really want they kill the line. I haven't read that many of the books but some.

1. Zayne Carrick - Loved this comic and was thrilled that the annouced Jareal and Rohlan but surprised that they passed up Zayne and
2. Gryph - a great con artist. Again I can't understand why these two weren't in a pack. Sadly the comic is coming to an end.
3. Jariah "Syn"- They made Cade and now Deliah Blue is coming so I will feel incomplete without Syn.
4. Dass Jennir - truly the star of Dark Times and the current Blue Harvest storyline is a terrific.
5. Bomo Greenbark - has to be the saddest story of the entire Star Wars universe.
6. Guri - Maybe it is because I hang out on these board but she sticks out in my mind and having that wave of SOTE figure I could find a spot for her.
7. Winter - She has been in tons of things and the more often I read a name the more deserving a figure in my eyes
8. Morrigan Corde / Nyna Calixte - I would want the Morrigan outfit version of the character which is the more interesting part of the character to me.
9. Rukh - I really liked the story of the species and Rukh would be the best choice for a representation.
10. Schurk Heren - I really liked the crew of the Uhumele so I could put them all on a list but I only have one spot.

Really the top five are the only one I really want probably more than any figures from the movies at this point.

Tycho
02-21-2010, 10:21 AM
Dindae, I love your taste in figures, but I have bad news to break to you.

I think the Jareal / Rohlan 2-pack was cancelled, and perhaps never even prototyped. Gryph and Zayne probably would have sold single-carded, so that's why I assume they weren't slated for the 2-pack scene.

Jariah Syn and Deliah Blue are also unlikely, even though Blue was at least designed. I don't know if she ever even got a hardcopy beyond that.

Dass Jennir and Bomo are really good characters as well. I surely would have bought them, too.

Like I said, your choices are great. I didn't comment on your other figures because they are actually the ones I voted on (Guri, Noghri, etc...) and I would very well buy them, - multiples of them in fact - too.

What about box sets for the EU, like they're doing with Force Unleashed.

Legacy
SOTE
HTTE
Rogue Squadron
Tales of the Jedi

- each would work this way. 5 - packs I guess?

dindae
02-21-2010, 11:23 AM
Yeah the Jareal ad Blue packs are cancelled but they did say they will try to get them out in some fashion which is better then nothing I guess. The fact that they have the molds makes it more likely than not. 5 packs could be cool but aside from Legacy I don't know if there is enough interest.

Blue2th
02-21-2010, 02:13 PM
I'd still like to see some characters from the Micro Series & Heir to the Empire

1. Arc Pilot - Hypori Rescue
2. Captain Fordo - Coruscant Phase II Armor
3. Nelvaan Warrior - Techno Union Mutation (or without)
4. General Oro Dassyne
5. Palleon
6. Rattataki Spy
7. Noghri
8. Arc Trooper - Muunilinst (corrected blue color)
9. Bugnaught
10. Rukh

Phantom-like Menace
02-21-2010, 11:47 PM
7. Winter - She has been in tons of things and the more often I read a name the more deserving a figure in my eyes

That's a great choice, and I didn't even think of her. I'd probably replace Darth Sion in my list. I really like him, but I've already left Kreia out, so the loss isn't that glaring.

bigbarada
02-22-2010, 12:44 AM
I'm having trouble ranking all the figures I would want so I'm going to break it down by source material:

The Ewok Adventure (Caravan of Courage)

Chukha-Trok
Kaink (with her full robe and not just a crappy soft-goods hood)

Ewoks animated series (all of these figures would be sculpted as they appeared in the cartoon - animated styling)

Paploo
Weechee
Chukha-Trok
Kaink

Droids animated series (these could be realistic or animated style)

Jann Tosh
Vlix

That's only 8 but filling the last two slots will take a lot more consideration. These are all the "no brainers" for me.

After much consideration, I decided to revise and prioritize my list

So the full list in order is now:
1. Chukha-Trok - this action figure would cure cancer and eliminate world poverty, plus he would be super-articulated and come with an axe.

2. Animated Paploo - my favorite season 1 recurring character, almost made it into the vintage Ewoks line, even got into the prototype and packaging phase before the line was cancelled.

3. Jann Tosh - a very underrated and cool EU character from the days when EU didn't suck (and we didn't call it "EU" either, we just called it "Star Wars"). He should be realistically styled, super-articulated and come with an A-Wing Pilot helmet along with other accessories.

4. Animated Wicket - the star of two seasons worth of Ewoks cartoons. He should come with two removable hoods, Season 1 brown and Season 2 green.

5. Animated Princess Kneesa - after over 25 years, the other Star Wars princess deserves her own action figure.

6. Animated Weechee - Wicket's big brother is long overdue for a figure. Like Paploo, he came so close in 1986, but the line was cancelled before the figure could get past the prototype stage.

7. Kaink - she drops a bit down on my list because of the failed Star Tours attempt, but give her a sculpted robe and she'd be perfect.

8. Animated Teebo - Wicket's best buddy and Logray's apprentice. After 25 years, he's long overdue for a figure.

9. Animated Latara - this would finish up the 4 main Ewoks from the animated series. Again, 25 years is too long to wait for these guys.

10. Vlix - not only is he one of the most insanely rare Star Wars figures ever produced, he was actually an interesting character in the Droids series as well.

Tycho
02-22-2010, 05:23 AM
Some people don't read Star Wars here.

They count only motion picture (maybe including cartoons and video games) as "Star Wars."

Funny, as they are not written by George Lucas either (just like comics and books).

In fact, novelist James Luceno and comic writer John Ostrander, are a lot better than most of the motion-picture SW EU writers (cartoons and video games).

Clone Wars is doing really well however, though different episodes have different writers as well.

But all media have bad installments as well as good ones.

Ando
02-22-2010, 01:42 PM
My picks:

- ARC Pilot from the CW Micro Series.
- New and Improved Dash Rendar + Leebo from SOTE.

(I still hold out hope there will be a new+improved Outrider smeday)

From the Karen Traviss Republic Commando/Imperial Commando novels:
- Kal Skirata.
- Walon Vau.
- Bardin Jusik.
- Etain Tur-Mukan.
- Imperial Commando trooper (plain white for army building).

I don't have a 10th choice.

bigbarada
02-22-2010, 02:56 PM
Some people don't read Star Wars here.

They count only motion picture (maybe including cartoons and video games) as "Star Wars."

Funny, as they are not written by George Lucas either (just like comics and books).

In fact, novelist James Luceno and comic writer John Ostrander, are a lot better than most of the motion-picture SW EU writers (cartoons and video games).

Clone Wars is doing really well however, though different episodes have different writers as well.

But all media have bad installments as well as good ones.

Well, first of all, if I'm going to take the time to read a book, then I would prefer that it be something more substantial than a Star Wars fiction book. I mostly read historical/non-fiction. When it comes to comic books, I'm a superhero guy, not a sci-fi guy, first and foremost.

However, I do read Star Wars non-fiction, which mostly just deals with behind the scenes info from the movies. And I would read Star Wars fiction, except that I simply don't care about the characters or storylines that the current EU sources are chronicling.

ChukhaTrok76
02-22-2010, 02:59 PM
The ONLY animated figures of Teebo and Paploo I have seen are from a pvc set put out in 1986 by Comic Figuras (Comics Spain). They came in an Ewoks/Droids set. They're non-posable, but very good likeness of the characters. Took me 4 years to find them, but they fit in nicely with the rest of the Ewoks cartoon figures. But I agree, they all need action figures. Teebo was always my favorite in the animated series (next to Chukha-Trok and Asha of course). http://droidsandewoks.weebly.com/teebo-pvc.html

http://www.starwars.com/vault/collecting/20081111a.html

Here are some pics of the Teebo pvc and a pic of the whole set on Star Wars.com

bigbarada
02-22-2010, 03:23 PM
The ONLY animated figures of Teebo and Paploo I have seen are from a pvc set put out in 1986 by Comic Figuras (Comics Spain). They came in an Ewoks/Droids set. They're non-posable, but very good likeness of the characters. Took me 4 years to find them, but they fit in nicely with the rest of the Ewoks cartoon figures. But I agree, they all need action figures. Teebo was always my favorite in the animated series (next to Chukha-Trok and Asha of course). http://droidsandewoks.weebly.com/teebo-pvc.html

http://www.starwars.com/vault/collecting/20081111a.html

Here are some pics of the Teebo pvc and a pic of the whole set on Star Wars.com

Well, Paploo, Weechee and Chief Chirpa were all planned for the second wave of Kenner Ewoks figures before the line was cancelled.

Paploo, painted prototype and carded sample:
http://theswca.com/index.php?action=disp_item&item_id=35770

Chief Chirpa, painted prototype and carded sample:
http://theswca.com/index.php?action=disp_item&item_id=35768

Weechee, painted prototype and carded sample:
http://theswca.com/index.php?action=disp_item&item_id=35772

Others from the unproduced second wave were:
Chituhr:
http://theswca.com/index.php?action=disp_item&item_id=35767
Morag:
http://theswca.com/index.php?action=disp_item&item_id=35771
Bondo:
http://theswca.com/index.php?action=disp_item&item_id=35769

Anyways, that PVC set is pretty cool (even though Wicket looks a little creepy) might be worth tracking down just for the Paploo and Teebo figures.

Tycho
02-22-2010, 04:35 PM
Well, first of all, if I'm going to take the time to read a book, then I would prefer that it be something more substantial than a Star Wars fiction book.

I love to read all kinds of stuff. For me, getting into a Star Wars book is great escapism. Since there's a chronology to that universe that's kept pretty strictly, I look at Star Wars having its own history of which the movies only cover about 36 years of.


I mostly read historical/non-fiction.

I love real history, too - especially military and political history, but some having to do with inventions as well.


When it comes to comic books, I'm a superhero guy, not a sci-fi guy, first and foremost.

Maybe Batman would be OK, but I just can't seem to get into superhero comics. They are so unrealistic to me and don't seem to attempt to fake it, or suspend disbelief. (Batman's a ninja and uses high-tech military hardware that Wayne Enterprises produces - so along with Ironman, these guys are closer to "real," than some others. But Smallville tried to make Superman more realistic, so I give that show props.)


However, I do read Star Wars non-fiction, which mostly just deals with behind the scenes info from the movies.

That stuff might hook me, but it struggles to intially do so. I like to "believe" in something. Others have religion. I like to think Geoge Lucas really took a camera crew to Geonosis to film that battle ;)



And I would read Star Wars fiction, except that I simply don't care about the characters or storylines that the current EU sources are chronicling.

Clone Wars? Prequel stuff? What would you like and what did you read that you liked?

SOTE and HTTE favor very highly amongst our poll respondents in this thread you know (Noghri, Palleon, C'Boath, Clone Luuke, Guri, Leebo, Jix, etc.)

bigbarada
02-22-2010, 05:15 PM
Clone Wars? Prequel stuff? What would you like and what did you read that you liked?

I actually loved the "expanded universe" back in the 1980s and I followed it very enthusiastically. I love the Droids and Ewoks TV shows. I was super excited at the idea of creating my own unique Star Wars characters when the WEG role playing game came out in 1987.

Unfortunately, starting in 1991 with HTTE, a new version of Star Wars EU appeared on the scene and began to replace and rewrite all previous "EU" sources from 1978-1990. All the stories that I had grown up with were swept to the curb to make room for new stories. That's probably why I will always hold a grudge against modern EU.

As for the stuff that I do like. If the Clone Wars is EU, then that would be up there. Also I'm still a big fan of the Droids and Ewoks cartoons.

In fact, according to the 1985 Droids cardback, Jann Tosh, was an orphan from the Clone Wars. In the cartoon, he is the teenager who purchased C-3PO and R2-D2 in the second story arc: The Lost Prince. So, I think it would be really cool to see Jann Tosh make an appearance in the Clone Wars cartoon, even it it's just as a young child. He was always one of my favorite characters, so I would really like to see him worked into the current continuity.

Something like that, that pays homage to original EU sources, would get me to start paying attention to modern EU again. If we just get more post-ROTJ adventures of Luke, Han, and Leia, then I'll pass.

pbarnard
02-22-2010, 05:28 PM
Something like that, that pays homage to original EU sources, would get me to start paying attention to modern EU again. If we just get more post-ROTJ adventures of Luke, Han, and Leia, then I'll pass.

Check out most if not all the stuff by James Luceno in that acase. Also, Luke SKywalker and the Shadows of Mindor has a lot of early EU references and characters from Fenn Shyssa to Blackhole and even Kaibur crystals.

Tycho
02-22-2010, 06:51 PM
I own the Droids: Pirate and the Prince, and like Jann Tosh as well.

I'd also like to acquire an official, well-mastered copy of the speeder racing team with Thall Joban and Jord Dusat, with their Rebel Alliance contact Kea Moll. I know you also remember them.

The thing is, the fight couldn't be over after ROTJ, and Thrawn and Palleon as the Imperials make sense. There are good stories, and bad ones. The Yuuzhan Vong invasion really aided highlighting reasons Jedi would seek the Dark Side of the Force, too.

However, I'd like to see the young Jann Tosh during the Clone Wars myself.

It all comes into play. And yes, James Luceno's stuff is brilliant. I'd always wanted to meet him. I met Timothy Zahn at Comic Con before.

I would want to write for Star Wars myself, explaining Palpatine's coming of age as the Sith Apprentice under Darth Plageuis and the intentional creation of Anakin to become the ultimate Sith. I have an idea of what their master plan was, and how Palpatine usurped it when he killed his master and became the Dark Lord of the Sith himself.

I realize other people have their own ideas about this, but I am competitive and want to be in the race to have my version be the first that's "cannonized." The EU represents a literary opportunity for me to "win," as well as share what I hope a majority of other fans would love to read as well. James Luceno was once on track to write this: "The Tragedy of Darth Plageuis." I don't know what happened: if it was put on hold or cancelled. Luceno is still writing Star Wars and "Millennium Falcon" came out after "Tragedy" was cancelled. So it wasn't an issue with Luceno. He's still writing for SW. It must have been something else, specific to a Plageuis issue.

Anyway, I can't resent HTTE or anything else that came afterward (though I dislike some - such as Barbara Hambly's SW stories). I don't think Ewoks and Droids covered SW that well. They told cool stories of isolated incidents that didn't affect the greater galaxy like the Yuuzhan Vong invasion or Thrawn's reconquest did, not to mention Luke restarting the Jedi Order.

This helps SW continue.

Like I said, I love history, especially military history. But we all shudder to think about the sequel to World War II.

It's better that SW has the on-going history - and there's a lot to enjoy.

Those of you not as familiar with it yet, ask some of us that are which books you'll really enjoy - related to which era of SW history you're most interested in: Obi-Wan, Luke, Exar Kun, Cade Skywalker, etc.

vger
02-22-2010, 09:07 PM
Dash Rendar -needs a SA update. A few SOTE comic packs would have been great if the line continued

Guri-memorable EU character. Needed to go with Xizor.

Leebo-cool co-pilot droid. SOTE helped get SW popular thru comics video games and books.

Emperor Roan Fel-Legacy is a great comic line but alot of important characters are still missing in figure form

Princess Marasiah Fel-same as above

Anakin Solo-the last Solo child needs a figure to complete the family.

Ben Skywalker-Luke's son needs a figure.

Kyle Katarn (Dark Forces)- POTF2 needs an update. Great videogame, great character.

Luke in Imperial Guard Disguise-cool design and another cool SOTE character.

Lando in Imperial Guard disguise-same as above.

Shadows of the Empire and Dark Forces got me back into Star Wars big time and I'd love to see more merchandise from them.

DarkJedi5
02-23-2010, 02:25 AM
Not sure if I can make a list of 10 but I know Ysane Isard would have to be on my list as well as Paleon and maybe Daala. Am I obsessed with Imperial officers? No, not really. But some variety in the ranks would be great and they would be pretty easy to do sine we've already got most of the body parts to make these figures they'd be pretty simple kit-bashes.

Sinscia Fat'o
02-24-2010, 10:58 AM
I actually loved the "expanded universe" back in the 1980s and I followed it very enthusiastically. I love the Droids and Ewoks TV shows. I was super excited at the idea of creating my own unique Star Wars characters when the WEG role playing game came out in 1987.

Unfortunately, starting in 1991 with HTTE, a new version of Star Wars EU appeared on the scene and began to replace and rewrite all previous "EU" sources from 1978-1990. All the stories that I had grown up with were swept to the curb to make room for new stories. That's probably why I will always hold a grudge against modern EU.

As for the stuff that I do like. If the Clone Wars is EU, then that would be up there. Also I'm still a big fan of the Droids and Ewoks cartoons.

In fact, according to the 1985 Droids cardback, Jann Tosh, was an orphan from the Clone Wars. In the cartoon, he is the teenager who purchased C-3PO and R2-D2 in the second story arc: The Lost Prince. So, I think it would be really cool to see Jann Tosh make an appearance in the Clone Wars cartoon, even it it's just as a young child. He was always one of my favorite characters, so I would really like to see him worked into the current continuity.

Something like that, that pays homage to original EU sources, would get me to start paying attention to modern EU again. If we just get more post-ROTJ adventures of Luke, Han, and Leia, then I'll pass.

i always wondered why u hated the EU so much and now i know, and it makes complete sense. I really didnt know lucas had scrapped the droids and ewoks stuff from the 80s as non cannon. that kinda makes me mad as well, even though im not a huge fan of it, but its still star wars and shouldnt be forgotten about, but worked back into continuity, which i think that lucas film will do this some how in the clone wars cartoons or maybe in the fiction that is the live action series which i doubt will ever happen.

El Chuxter
02-24-2010, 12:24 PM
They're too busy un-writing the EU from 1991-2005 right now to focus on re-integrating the earlier stuff.

Tycho
02-24-2010, 12:53 PM
I don't see how Ewoks and Droids were "scrapped."

Ewoks has nothing to do with the continuity anyway, because there was barely any contact with Endor until the Death Star II project, and I always took it that the Ewoks cartoon took place before ROTJ since the Ewoks would have blasters otherwise.

And "the Toga Witch" was probably an exiled Jedi (stunted Whipid? She looks like it) who turned to the Dark Side and escaped to Endor.

As to Droids?

R2 and 3PO were given to Captain Antilles, with 3PO's memory erased.

They became lost, wound up with Joban and then Tosh, and finally made their way back to Antilles since he was protecting Leia (Skywalker) Organa and R2 knew who she really was.

Where's the continuity error?

RENDAR LIVES
02-24-2010, 08:24 PM
Speaking of cannon. I thought I read somewhere that because they don't know how long the CW cartoon will last they may rewrite the timeline again. I got over it the first time when they switched publishers but it's getting ridiculous. How will they ever squeeze all the comics, novels and both cartoon series into 3 years? And all this just to sell toys. Lucas did sell out. I'm not opposed to new stories, in fact I love them, but I really really hate retcons.

Tycho, I suggest Captain America vol. 3 #'s 25-50. Ed Brubaker uses real life news and events as well as politics to write this series. After killing Cap off he uses Caps old sidekick from WWII. Yes there are some pretty out there ideas still but he totally turned a super hero comic into a more realistic spy comic with real world politics. Green Lantern is pretty b*d*ss too but obviously far more sci-fi. All in all it's really the writers who make these books cool.

El Chuxter
02-24-2010, 08:47 PM
I used to love Green Lantern, but I can't get into all this Blue/Red/Yellow/Chartreuse/Vermillion/Stripedy Lanterns vs superhero zombies stuff that's been going on for a while.

I'd wholeheartedly recommend Emerald Dawn and Emerald Dawn II, but I don't think they're still in print, which is sad. Those, to me, are the definitive Green Lantern tales. Actually, it looks like the first one is, which is better than nothing, I suppose.

Mad Slanted Powers
02-24-2010, 09:44 PM
I haven't kept up with EU in several years. I read most of the post ROTJ stuff before NJO, and I read the Jedi Apprentice and a few other prequel era things. My favorite sources would be the following:

Heir to the Empire Trilogy - The start of the modern EU. At the time, I thought this was episodes VII-IX.

X-Wing Novels - I really liked the stories and characters of Rogue and Wraith Squadrons.

Jedi Apprentice - I really liked how it gave us more background on Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon and their relationship.

Dark Forces - From the moment I first started playing the demo of this game, I felt immersed in the Star Wars universe.

Knights of the Old Republic - An even more immersive video game experience with lots of great characters. I got an Xbox and this game shortly after I bought my house, so I have good memories of early 2004 when I was playing this game.

Jedi Academy trilogy & I, Jedi - A chance to see Luke rebuild the Jedi Order. Lots of new Jedi. I, Jedi takes a character (Corran Horn) from another favorite series and meshes that in with some of the events of the existing Jedi Academy trilogy.

Shadows of the Empire - A multi-media Star Wars event. It even had a soundtrack.

Dark Empire - I actually listened to the audio dramatization before I read the comic. Upon listening to it a second time, it didn't seem near as good, but the first time through it was great to listen to a new Star Wars story with all the sound, effects and music.

Tales of the Jedi - I've only read a bit of it, but it will probably be the first thing I get to when I get back into reading Star Wars EU.


I'm looking at how I voted in our EU poll a couple years ago. Not sure if I totally agree with it now, or if I even did then. It's always so hard to pick from so many characters. I'd like to see all of Rogue and Wraith Squadron made, but I don't really have room for any of them on a list of just 10. Likewise with the Jedi Academy Trilogy Jedi.

Carth Onasi - KOTOR video game - wouldn't mind all the members of Revan's crew being made
Gilad Pellaeon & Joruus C'baoth - Thrawn Trilogy - Two main characters still needed from the Thrawn Trilogy. Pellaeon would be kind of another boring Imperial Officer figure, but C'baoth would be a cool distinctive figure.
Guri & Leebo - SOTE - Dash needs his trusty sidekick Leebo, and a hot, human replica assassin droid would help round out the SOTE line of figures.
Jan Ors - Kyle Katarn needs his trusty partner as well.
Kyp Durron - I've probably like to see other Jedi made, but he seems to be the one from the Jedi Academy trilogy that became a major player in later EU I have yet to read.
Nomi Sunrider - I liked the character, and Nomi Sunrider is just such a cool name.
Ysanne Isard - Need to have another villain on the list. Tough to choose between her and Daala. Isard would probably stand out more with her red outfit, but didn't have longevity outside the X-Wing series.
Winter - An unsung hero of the post ROTJ EU. Longtime friend of Leia, protector of the Solo children and wife of Tycho Celchu (I don't think I got to that part, or don't remember it).

bigbarada
02-24-2010, 09:45 PM
i always wondered why u hated the EU so much and now i know, and it makes complete sense. I really didnt know lucas had scrapped the droids and ewoks stuff from the 80s as non cannon. that kinda makes me mad as well, even though im not a huge fan of it, but its still star wars and shouldnt be forgotten about, but worked back into continuity, which i think that lucas film will do this some how in the clone wars cartoons or maybe in the fiction that is the live action series which i doubt will ever happen.

I would love to see some follow up stories of the characters from Droids. Jann Tosh's and Thal Joben/Jord Dusat's stories were so abruptly ended that it's a bit frustrating that nothing else has been written about them in 25 years.


I don't see how Ewoks and Droids were "scrapped."

Ewoks has nothing to do with the continuity anyway, because there was barely any contact with Endor until the Death Star II project, and I always took it that the Ewoks cartoon took place before ROTJ since the Ewoks would have blasters otherwise.

And "the Toga Witch" was probably an exiled Jedi (stunted Whipid? She looks like it) who turned to the Dark Side and escaped to Endor.

As to Droids?

R2 and 3PO were given to Captain Antilles, with 3PO's memory erased.

They became lost, wound up with Joban and then Tosh, and finally made their way back to Antilles since he was protecting Leia (Skywalker) Organa and R2 knew who she really was.

Where's the continuity error?

The events of Droids could have taken place over the course of a year at the minimum. Although, I would guess that Jann Tosh's ownership of Threepio and Artoo could have lasted up to 2 or 3 years, because they seemed to be in the service of Mon Julpa for a lengthy but undefined period of time.

However, the end of Ep3 strongly suggested that Antilles owned the droids for the entire span of time between Ep3 and Ep4. So, at the very least, it makes all three story arcs from the Droids series completely unnecessary.

pbarnard
02-24-2010, 10:05 PM
I would love to see some follow up stories of the characters from Droids. Jann Tosh's and Thal Joben/Jord Dusat's stories were so abruptly ended that it's a bit frustrating that nothing else has been written about them in 25 years.


Actually I know there was some references to the Ewok movies as well as toon in both the NJO/Legacy of the Force series. I'd have to double check to see about a Droids reference. Plus with all the short stories that come out that I know I've missed over the past 7 years (it's time for an anthology Del Ray), maybe it has.

ChukhaTrok76
02-24-2010, 10:30 PM
Morag was a Tulgah witch. The Tulgah are spoken of in "Castaways of Endor" I believe. They are now indigenous to the Endor moon. Tulgah are a short folk, whose faces resemble primates like a mandril. They are natural mystics. Some use their arts to heal, others, like Morag find power through the "Night Spirit". According to sources, The Ewoks cartoon show takes place before Return of The Jedi.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
02-24-2010, 11:55 PM
Speaking of cannon. I thought I read somewhere that because they don't know how long the CW cartoon will last they may rewrite the timeline again. I got over it the first time when they switched publishers but it's getting ridiculous. How will they ever squeeze all the comics, novels and both cartoon series into 3 years? And all this just to sell toys. Lucas did sell out. I'm not opposed to new stories, in fact I love them, but I really really hate retcons.
Why? Does it really bother you when one group of imaginary stories replaces another group of imaginary stories? Just enjoy it for what it is. If you worry about the specifics, then you'll just go nuts. They've been retconning constantly; the Clone Wars era is just the most recent example and apparently people have forgotten about any other times this has happened. And I don't buy the idea that Lucas has sold out, or just does this for the money - if he did that, then I doubt he'd be so personally involved with the products, and the money he makes wouldn't go right back into furthering the art of filmmaking.

I don't really get into much EU. I tried to start both SOTE and HTTE and couldn't finish, but maybe now that I'm older I could appreciate them more. I like some occasional novels, mostly ones set during the prequel era. I just don't like much of what happened after ROTJ on the timeline or the way in which it was handled, so I just avoid it for the most part. I also really don't care what happened 4,000 years before the films, and the KOTOR game was fun but not mind-blowing, so that's not a huge area of interest, either. I've read the comics that come with the comic packs, some of which were good, some of which were mind-numbingly awful (Legacy). I also have a few of the Clone Wars comics compilations that were released over the last seven years or so, which were pretty fun for the most part. I tend to stick to the movies and TV show.

Tycho
02-25-2010, 03:17 AM
JabbaJohn, it would bother me if I had to work hard to imagine one group of imaginary stories replacing another group of imaginary stories, because it would tax my imagination. Can you imagine that? Then I'd imagine I was having an imaginary breakdown in which I was imagining that it was perfectly normal to worry about it if one imaginary timeline didn't mesh correctly with another imaginary timeline. Then I'd imagine that some imaginary people were saying there's something wrong with my imagination and I can't imagine that because I write fiction which is imaginary stories and I need my imagination in order to imagine them. Then this whole imaginary scenerio wouldn't really be an imaginary phenomenon but reality which is the opposite of imaginary. I'd imagine this would drive me nuts. ME? Imagine that! :crazed:

BigBarada: There were 19 years between ROTS and ANH. Antilles could have been the rightful supervisor of R2-D2 and C-3PO, but the droids could have gotten lost and been trying to find their way back to Princess Leia - who I imagine was their actual owner (in the House of Organa of Alderaan). Leia would have inherited her parents' droids anyway.

The EU also says that Anakin gave 3PO to Padme as a wedding gift since she needed an uncompromised protocal droid they could trust to serve her as a Senator. She recognized R2-D2's skills and gave him to Anakin (or the Jedi, but specifically to fly with Anakin) to help keep him safe. Since they were secretly married and the droids knew that, the two of them belonged to both Anakin and Padme as joint property.

(Tycho Celchu might have gone on to Intergalactic Law School but I'd become an Imperial pilot to earn money for graduate school, but you all know how my career with the Empire turned out and Rogue Squadron already had a Twi'lek lawyer amongst its ranks so Wedge wouldn't let me go back to school.)

Darth Metalmute
02-25-2010, 08:04 AM
I don't really get into much EU. I tried to start both SOTE and HTTE and couldn't finish, but maybe now that I'm older I could appreciate them more.

I tried to read the Thrawn Trilogy in 1991 when it came out. I was excited that finally, something new Star Wars came out. I didn't get past the first 3 chapters. I was 12 at the time and just couldn't get into it. However, I picked it up again in paperback a couple of yesrs later and absolutely loved it.
To this day, it is my favorite book series, and I read alot. I probably read it once or twice a year. I even prefer it over the Prequals.

You should give it another chance. I doubt it will bring you over to the "Dark Side", but I bet you'll enjoy it now.


As for canon and ret-coning, I remember being so ticked off after watching Episode II that Lucas didn't call the Kamino cloning chambers, Spaarti cloning cylinders. It seemed to me such a dirty trick, almost a slap in the face to Zahn. Lucas gave reference to the 501st, in appriciation for the support of the fan group, yet couldn't give credit to Zahn, who can take partial credit for the resurection of the Star Wars franchise.

Now with the Clone Wars, I don't even pay attention to what goes where, and how does it fit anymore. I don't care. The Simpsons don't care, Lucas doesn't care, why should I? It's not as if the argument is whether or not Armstrong landed on the moon or a studio in Hollywood.

dindae
02-25-2010, 09:14 AM
I don't let time lines get in the way of a good story. Yes I understand that there is a finite amount of time between movies but as long as they don't do things like "6 months later...." then I can pretend all of season one happened in a month or so and it will be a long time before the season stack up enough that I worry about it. It's kinda like reading any modern day comic. The original X-Men were teenagers in the 60's and so now they would be in thier 60's. You get too many writers in the mix and enough stories in a timeline you are going to reach a point that you have to break the timeline or just stop putting out new stuff. Lucas will never choose the latter.

pbarnard
02-25-2010, 09:22 AM
Why? Does it really bother you when one group of imaginary stories replaces another group of imaginary stories? Just enjoy it for what it is. If you worry about the specifics, then you'll just go nuts. They've been retconning constantly; the Clone Wars era is just the most recent example and apparently people have forgotten about any other times this has happened. And I don't buy the idea that Lucas has sold out, or just does this for the money - if he did that, then I doubt he'd be so personally involved with the products, and the money he makes wouldn't go right back into furthering the art of filmmaking..

Imagine for a second that the toy line was going to be switched permamently to 5-6" scale. They were going to release everything again, but different. Would you buy it? Would you be able to afford it? Do you have the space? What does that say about the dioramas/displays you've built when the next stormtrooper release is taller than the Droid Factory Dark Trooper? Can you spend another 20-30 years amassing and apreciating what you just did with 3.75"?

Well that's what it is now that CW is going to overwrite everything. Maybe this will happen every generation or so, but remember, it was the EU stories and a handful of video games that were noncanonical that carried the Star Wars torch before PotF2, Special Editions and Prequals. What you've said to your hardcore base who got you through a dark time is that now we no longer need you.

There's a difference between retconning things from 1979 and 1980 so it fits with something that is published in 1999 or 2003 and whole sale contradicting everything and saying that this continuity no longer will be used.

El Chuxter
02-25-2010, 09:22 AM
The original X-Men was open-ended, though. It's not like they said, "This entire series will take place in a three-year period, which has already been covered in comics, a TV series, video games, and novels."

I've joked about it before, but it's getting silly. Anakin honestly doesn't have time to take a pee break at any point during the Clone Wars, and probably turned evil because he didn't sleep at all during the entire war, either.

vger
02-25-2010, 01:56 PM
Actually I wouldn't mind if they retconned the Clone Wars to make it 5 or 6 years long. It's not like Padme Anakin and Obi-Wan definitely look 3 years older from AOTC to ROTS.

El Chuxter
02-25-2010, 06:48 PM
Three years does sound short for such a devastating galactic war (WWII was five years, only involved one planet, and didn't have an inexhaustible supply of robots and clones), but I don't see that happening, as it would require a massive retcon of the entire SW timeline.

Darth Metalmute
02-26-2010, 09:03 AM
Not to mention that each jump into light speed took around a week. So if we take the conservate assuption that each episode consists of a week of travel, then the first season wasted a half a year in lightspeed.


There's a difference between retconning things from 1979 and 1980 so it fits with something that is published in 1999 or 2003 and whole sale contradicting everything and saying that this continuity no longer will be used.


Continuity was one of the things that made Star Wars great. And then came the prequals....

bigbarada
02-26-2010, 03:19 PM
Continuity was one of the things that made Star Wars great. And then came the prequals....

Well, technically, Star Wars films have been contradicting non-movie sources since the second Star Wars film. The novel, Splinter of the Mind's Eye, killed off Darth Vader at the end of the story and left Leia physically scarred by Vader's lightsaber. Clearly that was disregarded from the continuity once ESB was released. Although to be fair, Splinter of the Mind's Eye was written as a "low-budget sequel" to Star Wars just in case the movie failed at the box office.

However, both ESB and ROTJ retconned the identity of Luke's father as established in the 1970s Star Wars newspaper strip (Luke's father's original name was Tan Skywalker). Plus, ROTJ established Luke and Leia as brother and sister, which was clearly never intended prior to the making of ROTJ.

So, there is a certain degree of flexibility required when you follow Star Wars EU and you need to be ready to have your favorite, non-film stories and characters pushed out of continuity or completely rewritten at any time (just ask longtime Boba Fett fans how it felt to watch AOTC for the first time).

I think I've gotten used to it now as it happens with each new movie or TV release. However, the first time is always the hardest one to get over and I guess I never will truly accept as canon any Star Wars stories that were written after 1989.

Tycho
02-26-2010, 06:10 PM
Well, no one gets this but I do: the Sith were the good guys!

Palpatine and Anakin only wanted to bring a New Order to the galaxy and they had to prove how special interests had corrupted the Republic Senate and the Jedi Order upheld the status quo in "the name of freedom." (First there was the corporate capitalism of the Trade Federation, Techno Union, Corporate Alliance, Commerce Guild, InterGalactic Banking Clan, and more.)

The Rebel Alliance victory re-established chaos and giving voices in the government to the ignorant that we often see in our world today.

While training as a Jedi, Anakin became highly educated and Palpatine clearly was. However, no one would just blindly trust that those two knew what was best for the galaxy, even if they did. So they had to institute actions such as Order 66 to pave their way.

But ultimately, ignorance triumphed over good, and in ROTJ, the Imperial utopian society fell back into the rabble that challenged it. I know there are those of you who will cite Luke's inherent "good" characteristics, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

For the EU fans, look at how well the Imperial Remnant was ran out of Bastion with the eventual emergence of Emperor Fel.

The Yuuzhan Vong had to isolate it and could never conquer it (nor could the New Republic either).

One day Star Wars' good guys will be revealed to be who they truly were. :yes:

JediTricks
02-26-2010, 06:14 PM
I'm not trying to diminish anyone else's picks, but I tried to get ten that I wanted and might actually sell to at least fourteen other people. :pThat was one of the elements of my choices as well, hence no Winter, no Ghent, no Admiral Pellaeon.



Ahsoka Tano (realistic sculpt)-- Love her, hate her, or tolerate her, she's an enormously important character now outside of the movies.I don't buy this. She's important for doing... what, exactly? Following Anakin around? She's just "there" most of the time, but not really doing anything of importance. And the expression she's in has plenty of figures of her already. But in the larger SW universe, I don't see how she's anything other than a blip.



JT, your list is almost perfect! I'd swap out probably Jan Ors for the Revwien concept art figure and Joruus C'Baoth for Ket Maliss. Otherwise your list is pretty much what I would most like to see. I'm a big SOTE fan and both Guri and Leebo have left pretty big holes in that line.Thanks!

The only reason I knew what the Revwien was is due to your Q&A stuff, it is an interesting idea. How would you make it an articulated action figure though? I'm looking at the wiki listing and the only thing I can think of is a mountain of bendy leaves.

I had to look up Ket Maliss, I can't say I remember it even a little. For some reason, I don't think of the Holiday Special as EU, to me it's somewhere between EU and Clone Wars-level canon. It's a viable choice, just not a source I'd think of as EU right off the bat.



5-Nom Anor. Iether version is okay with me. Many see him as the Starscream of Star Wars. Sure he was a coniving backstabber but his personality went so much deeper. There were times he had doubts or believed in his peoples faith. He was clever and even though he was out for himself you never really knew where he was gonna end up next. I can't remember, did he die in the end or survive?They were/are going to do the "other" version of Nom Anor, the cloaked version from Crimson Empire. It's a canceled comic pack figure, but I believe they are planning a release for it down the road as an exclusive.

I personally think they should have done the NJO one, that's the version I'm visually familiar with, and the one they tooled up is something I didn't recognize at all and I think that was a mistake. I'm a casual EU fan, much of my knowledge is based on wiki entries and visual connections from their most-known fare, that's the sort of thing they should concentrate on IMO because I suspect there are more casual fans that might buy the figure if they recognize it. There were far too few comic packs I was interested in over the last year compared to the previous years for that reason, visually less of an impact. (didn't help they raised the price to $12-$15 either)



Dindae, I love your taste in figures, but I have bad news to break to you.

I think the Jareal / Rohlan 2-pack was cancelled, and perhaps never even prototyped. Gryph and Zayne probably would have sold single-carded, so that's why I assume they weren't slated for the 2-pack scene.

Jariah Syn and Deliah Blue are also unlikely, even though Blue was at least designed. I don't know if she ever even got a hardcopy beyond that.Jarael, Rohlan Dyre, Darth Nihl, and Dahlia Blue were tooled up because they were originally scheduled for Spring of '10 before they were canceled. Hasbro says they are already looking for alternate avenues to release these 2 sets at some point in the next few years.

I found Syn to be a really boring design for a pirate-type character as an action figure. He was an ok comic character but basically just variety, a token normal guy in a sea of weird aliens.



What about box sets for the EU, like they're doing with Force Unleashed.

Legacy
SOTE
HTTE
Rogue Squadron
Tales of the Jedi

- each would work this way. 5 - packs I guess?Never gonna happen. The only reason we're getting TFU 2packs is because they were going to release most of those figures single-carded before the line face-planted. And the only reason they were going to release those figures single-carded is because they were from a video game, and one that was new and popular to boot. None of the other sources you suggest have any of that going for them.



I actually loved the "expanded universe" back in the 1980s and I followed it very enthusiastically. I love the Droids and Ewoks TV shows. I was super excited at the idea of creating my own unique Star Wars characters when the WEG role playing game came out in 1987.

Unfortunately, starting in 1991 with HTTE, a new version of Star Wars EU appeared on the scene and began to replace and rewrite all previous "EU" sources from 1978-1990. All the stories that I had grown up with were swept to the curb to make room for new stories. That's probably why I will always hold a grudge against modern EU.I guess I'm the exact opposite. HTTE and the early '90s EU brought me back into SW, especially The Illustrated SW Universe which was my visual counterpoint to the Thrawn trilogy.

To me, Ewoks & Droids were nigh-unwatchable. I never liked the Ewoks and hated when I'd tune in to catch Droids only to see Ewoks instead. Droids as a cartoon was pretty mediocre, and I only watched it for the main characters because I liked them. I didn't care for the comic strip or the Marvel comics, both felt very un-Star Wars to me and were just aping the other sci-fantasy elements that had been overtaking all comic books of the '70s. There were very few Marvel SW comics that did it for me, and most of those were the ones that had X-wings and Rebel/Imperial intrigue. I guess, to me, the only pre-'90s EU that worked for me was Star Tours, the Disneyland attraction that came out during the celebration of the 10th anniversary of ANH. I still don't see the appeal of the comics or cartoons from that era to this day, there's not a single element I've been exposed to which originated in them which rings any Star Wars notes in my imagination. Sorry. In some ways, I feel bad that I was exposed to them at all because if I were more ignorant of them, at least I wouldn't feel so opposed to products from them. But emotionally, that's how I feel when I hear requests for that stuff.



I would love to see some follow up stories of the characters from Droids. Jann Tosh's and Thal Joben/Jord Dusat's stories were so abruptly ended that it's a bit frustrating that nothing else has been written about them in 25 years.Here's what I think is missing from SW fandom these days: why don't you write it yourself? There's far too little fan media these days I think. Back in the day, before the internet is what it is now, Blue Harvest fanzine was a great little publication, it got ideas out there. Star Trek on the internet was all about fan-written materials to the point where there's a group of fans actually making new classic Trek episodes! But with SW, it feels so splintered and underground over the last 12 years or so, perhaps because there's such a great breadth of official material. But if it doesn't cut the mustard for you, why not write your own? Hell, even here on SSG we used to play with that stuff more, now it seems like as Lucas covers more ground, we're afraid to trample on it. But why? Trample away, it's free so you can't get sued. All that might happen is you share your imagination with a small number of folks, and that's the worst possible outcome.

Hell, couldn't be worse than Cindel Towani becoming a reporter. What a boring use of a... boring character. Oh wait, now I see it. :p



Why? Does it really bother you when one group of imaginary stories replaces another group of imaginary stories? Just enjoy it for what it is. If you worry about the specifics, then you'll just go nuts. They've been retconning constantly; the Clone Wars era is just the most recent example and apparently people have forgotten about any other times this has happened. And I don't buy the idea that Lucas has sold out, or just does this for the money - if he did that, then I doubt he'd be so personally involved with the products, and the money he makes wouldn't go right back into furthering the art of filmmaking.I get it, actually. You are asked as an audience member to invest yourself in these settings and characters for the publishers' profits, you find yourself actually invested in them, only to have them wiped out, told that the publisher now feels they're worthless and you wasted your time making them money while you became emotionally invested. It used to be that your imagination could take your investment in those characters and situations anywhere, they were open-ended ideas, but now are closed off at BOTH ends so they get to go nowhere.

Look at 3PO's origins. At the end of ROTJ, we didn't know anything about his origins. Then the cartoon comes along and says "this is only 1 of many previous adventures" so it doesn't trample TOO hard on the existing canon. Then, for no reason except Lucas plays with his toys in a rigid manner, lil' Anakin Skywalker builds 3PO a mere 40 years before ANH, and why? So it can help his mom? Does that make any sense, a PROTOCOL DROID helping a slave? And why does this kid build something that has existed all over the universe and is ubiquitous already? Yet now we're stuck with a rather underwhelming origin story, and 3PO's past is closed-ended and boring, it's an imagination-killer. What was so great about the OT was that it was an imagination-starter and open-ended in both directions for almost everybody.


I don't really get into much EU. I tried to start both SOTE and HTTE and couldn't finish, but maybe now that I'm older I could appreciate them more. I like some occasional novels, mostly ones set during the prequel era. I just don't like much of what happened after ROTJ on the timeline or the way in which it was handled, so I just avoid it for the most part. I also really don't care what happened 4,000 years before the films, and the KOTOR game was fun but not mind-blowing, so that's not a huge area of interest, either. I've read the comics that come with the comic packs, some of which were good, some of which were mind-numbingly awful (Legacy). I also have a few of the Clone Wars comics compilations that were released over the last seven years or so, which were pretty fun for the most part. I tend to stick to the movies and TV show. I think SOTE should have been easy for you to get into, toys and a video game carry the story quite well, the comic book decompressed them visually, and the novel extended the decompressed tales.

I am selective about what I'll read of SW now though, to me SW has to be a blend of lightsabers and starfighters, it can't be too military or too Jedi because that's not enough SW for me. What I dislike in concept too though is the idea that in order to not trounce on the prequels, interesting concepts like KOTOR has to take place a stupid amount of time in the past. I like Legacy a little because even though it's 100 years ABY, there's enough time to still have a connection yet gives them a lot of breathing room to come up with new ideas. But thousands of years is an evolution which doesn't get realized when everything is essentially the same (or more advanced, that's the Prequel-effect too though).



Now with the Clone Wars, I don't even pay attention to what goes where, and how does it fit anymore. I don't care. The Simpsons don't care, Lucas doesn't care, why should I? It's not as if the argument is whether or not Armstrong landed on the moon or a studio in Hollywood.
I feel similarly, the Clone Wars only tramples on the prequels which I didn't care that much about, so if it's just product, then I'll only enjoy it as the product it is. It spurs very little imagination I have for what could happen next because we know Ahsoka doesn't mean anything in the future, Rex doesn't mean anything in the future, and nothing that happens in this show really has a great affect on the end of the Clone Wars, so it's only enjoyable and imaginative in the moment.

El Chuxter
02-26-2010, 07:44 PM
Hell, couldn't be worse than Cindel Towani becoming a reporter. What a boring use of a... boring character. Oh wait, now I see it. :p

As a teenager (early 1990s), I always had a secret hope to write a comic book about what happened to her. She and Noa left Endor, but, unfortunately, it seems they leave right as the Imperial presence arrives to build the second Death Star. Noa's been stranded for ages; he doesn't have any Imperial-era identification, and can't explain why this random kid is with him. They arrest him and turn her over to the SW equivalent of "the state," and she winds up in the Imperial Academy until it's liberated by agents of the New Republic a few years later. Inspired by their example but misinterpreting exactly what Luke and the Jedi stand for, she becomes a sort of do-gooder anti-Imperial vigilante, cruising the galaxy with two sidekicks, an Ewok who left Endor after ROTJ because he felt "walled in" on Endor and a Jawa mechanic.

Even then, I knew there wasn't much chance of it happening, but my heart still sunk when I read that she was turned into such a lame plot device in such a horrid book.

bigbarada
02-26-2010, 08:09 PM
Here's what I think is missing from SW fandom these days: why don't you write it yourself? There's far too little fan media these days I think. Back in the day, before the internet is what it is now, Blue Harvest fanzine was a great little publication, it got ideas out there. Star Trek on the internet was all about fan-written materials to the point where there's a group of fans actually making new classic Trek episodes! But with SW, it feels so splintered and underground over the last 12 years or so, perhaps because there's such a great breadth of official material. But if it doesn't cut the mustard for you, why not write your own? Hell, even here on SSG we used to play with that stuff more, now it seems like as Lucas covers more ground, we're afraid to trample on it. But why? Trample away, it's free so you can't get sued. All that might happen is you share your imagination with a small number of folks, and that's the worst possible outcome.

That is something I've definitely been considering. I have been trying to imagine exactly what happened to Jann Tosh after Joe Johnston and Peter Sauder so abruptly wrote him out of the Droids cartoon (Episode 9: Coby and the Starhunters). I've even been working on a drawing of Jann Tosh that I might post to the internet soon. Plus, I've got a few ideas of what he might have looked like by the time of the OT (by my guess, he would have been at least 10-15 years older, in his late 20s or even early 30s).

Didn't there at least used to be a system where fans could write Star Wars stories that could eventually become included into the Star Wars canon?


Even then, I knew there wasn't much chance of it happening, but my heart still sunk when I read that she was turned into such a lame plot device in such a horrid book.

Now that I think about it, maybe it's a blessing in disguise when one of your favorite Star Wars characters falls off the radar and gets totally forgotten.

El Chuxter
02-26-2010, 08:14 PM
Didn't there at least used to be a system where fans could write Star Wars stories that could eventually become included into the Star Wars canon?

There was "What's the Story," open to paid Hyperspace members, which is a large part of why every single background character is a former Jedi who became a smuggler to hide from the Empire, failed at it, became a bounty hunter, and, oh, was Han Solo's roommate in college. They cut it out, and I can't help but wonder if it's because they finally recognized the crap that random people handed in was the same as the crap a lot of the lesser EU writers hand in. Not sure if there was ever anything else.


Now that I think about it, maybe it's a blessing in disguise when one of your favorite Star Wars characters falls off the radar and gets totally forgotten.

No doubt! If they'd forgotten about Mara Jade, I might still be following post-ROTJ EU. :D And if they'd forget about Ahsoka, I might follow the prequel-era stuff better, too, for different reasons.

Tycho
02-27-2010, 12:45 PM
why every single background character is a former Jedi who became a smuggler to hide from the Empire, failed at it, became a bounty hunter, and, oh, was Han Solo's roommate in college.

You have that wrong:

a background character would be a smuggler already hiding from the Empire who discovers he can access the Force and become a Jedi, but fails at it, and becomes a bounty hunter when they find out that their former roommate in college was also once Han Solo's roommate at the Academy, thus the lead looks promising. See the difference? :D

indyjones1981
02-27-2010, 06:00 PM
Hi Bigbarada you said this an I am quoting "Plus, ROTJ established Luke and Leia as brother and sister, which was clearly never intended prior to the making of ROTJ." I disagree with that based on this exchange. Remember when Luke was leaving Dagobah in the Empire Stikes Back, Ben says to Yoda that boy was our last hope and Yoda says no there is another. Some people may have thought it was Leia or a relatives of Luke or maybe someone else. I think Lucas had in mind during the writing/making of Empire that Leia was Lukes sister but it would not be official until ROTJ. Just my take on that. Thanks.
Well, technically, Star Wars films have been contradicting non-movie sources since the second Star Wars film. The novel, Splinter of the Mind's Eye, killed off Darth Vader at the end of the story and left Leia physically scarred by Vader's lightsaber. Clearly that was disregarded from the continuity once ESB was released. Although to be fair, Splinter of the Mind's Eye was written as a "low-budget sequel" to Star Wars just in case the movie failed at the box office.

However, both ESB and ROTJ retconned the identity of Luke's father as established in the 1970s Star Wars newspaper strip (Luke's father's original name was Tan Skywalker). Plus, ROTJ established Luke and Leia as brother and sister, which was clearly never intended prior to the making of ROTJ.

So, there is a certain degree of flexibility required when you follow Star Wars EU and you need to be ready to have your favorite, non-film stories and characters pushed out of continuity or completely rewritten at any time (just ask longtime Boba Fett fans how it felt to watch AOTC for the first time).

I think I've gotten used to it now as it happens with each new movie or TV release. However, the first time is always the hardest one to get over and I guess I never will truly accept as canon any Star Wars stories that were written after 1989.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
02-27-2010, 06:33 PM
There's a difference between retconning things from 1979 and 1980 so it fits with something that is published in 1999 or 2003 and whole sale contradicting everything and saying that this continuity no longer will be used.
Leland Chee, the continuity guy, said that after the series is done, they'll retcon everything to fit together. They're not throwing out old stuff, they're maybe just shifting it a bit.


To me, Ewoks & Droids were nigh-unwatchable.
Same here. I have the DVDs but have only bothered to watch one of the Droids offerings. I saw one of the Ewoks ones on a tape years ago; I liked it a bit at the time, but doubt I'd get much enjoyment out of it now. Seeing the people constantly falling down in Droids made me sick - seriously, this is the best they could do? Thankfully, Star Wars TV has improved leaps and bounds since then (even if the first season of Clone Wars did rely too heavily on battle droid humor sometimes).

I also love Star Tours. My first trip to Disneyland was in June 1997, just a few months after seeing the films and falling in love with them. So the ride is one of my earliest SW memories and I still love going back and riding it (though I can't wait for the new version).


I get it, actually. You are asked as an audience member to invest yourself in these settings and characters for the publishers' profits, you find yourself actually invested in them, only to have them wiped out, told that the publisher now feels they're worthless and you wasted your time making them money while you became emotionally invested. It used to be that your imagination could take your investment in those characters and situations anywhere, they were open-ended ideas, but now are closed off at BOTH ends so they get to go nowhere.
But your enjoyment of the older stories shouldn't go away if you don't like the newer stuff, at least not entirely. I still love the first Pirates of the Caribbean movie even though I didn't care for the second and third; I can still watch and enjoy it and ignore the newer ones. They're not coming into your house and ripping the comics and books away from you - you still have them and you are free to enjoy them again and again.


Then, for no reason except Lucas plays with his toys in a rigid manner, lil' Anakin Skywalker builds 3PO a mere 40 years before ANH, and why? So it can help his mom? Does that make any sense, a PROTOCOL DROID helping a slave? And why does this kid build something that has existed all over the universe and is ubiquitous already?
Yes, thanks, we've all seen the 70-minute review. :p :D


I think SOTE should have been easy for you to get into, toys and a video game carry the story quite well, the comic book decompressed them visually, and the novel extended the decompressed tales.
I believe I tried to read SOTE when I was 7 or 8, which was probably far too young. I read a chapter - maybe not even that - and gave up, as it didn't appeal to me. I never had an N64 so I didn't play the game. I was never too huge into comics, so that one passed me by. I did have some of the figures (I have them all now) - bounty hunter Chewbacca was the first SW figure I ever bought, actually, so I was somewhat familiar with the basics of the story, but then as now, I was more interested in the films.


I am selective about what I'll read of SW now though, to me SW has to be a blend of lightsabers and starfighters, it can't be too military or too Jedi because that's not enough SW for me. What I dislike in concept too though is the idea that in order to not trounce on the prequels, interesting concepts like KOTOR has to take place a stupid amount of time in the past. I like Legacy a little because even though it's 100 years ABY, there's enough time to still have a connection yet gives them a lot of breathing room to come up with new ideas. But thousands of years is an evolution which doesn't get realized when everything is essentially the same (or more advanced, that's the Prequel-effect too though).

As to what is SW to me, maybe I'm not sure. I think the prequel era is my favorite, what with the Jedi and Clone Wars and everything. Maybe that's just because I'm more invested in it right now with the show and everything. The pilot stuff (Rogue Squadron, etc.) never appealed to me too much when I was younger; as you said, maybe it's too "military" for me (though I love the clone stories on the show, so who knows). I read most of the Jedi Apprentice series (or whatever the Obi-Wan/Qui-Gon series was called) and liked it, despite some issues.

KOTOR bugged me because it definitely didn't seem like 4,000 years before the films. The only real instance of them trying to make it seem old-fashioned was a crazy guy on the street saying anti-alien things, and the main character mentioning how he thought those feelings were all gone from the galaxy. The changes between the PT and the OT eras were way more drastic than the changes between KOTOR and film eras, which I believe was just poorly done on the part of those who made the game.

bigbarada
02-27-2010, 08:04 PM
Hi Bigbarada you said this an I am quoting "Plus, ROTJ established Luke and Leia as brother and sister, which was clearly never intended prior to the making of ROTJ." I disagree with that based on this exchange. Remember when Luke was leaving Dagobah in the Empire Stikes Back, Ben says to Yoda that boy was our last hope and Yoda says no there is another. Some people may have thought it was Leia or a relatives of Luke or maybe someone else. I think Lucas had in mind during the writing/making of Empire that Leia was Lukes sister but it would not be official until ROTJ. Just my take on that. Thanks.

I've never really bought into that explanation for a few reasons:

1. I specifically remember an interview from shortly after ESB's release, where Lucas claimed that the "other" Yoda was speaking about was going to be the female lead character for a third trilogy, which was to take place parallel to the events of the original trilogy. This was back in the day that Lucas was constantly promising that he was going to make 12 Star Wars films consisting of 4 trilogies. The reason why this could not have been Leia is because Lucas specifically said that we hadn't yet seen this "other" character that Yoda spoke of, in either of the two Star Wars films at the time.

2. I find it impossible to believe that Lucas had any idea that Luke and Leia were brother and sister, and would STILL allow 2 passionate kissing scenes between the characters. Sure, one was cut from the final version, but it made it all the way through all the script revisions and was even filmed.

3. Irvin Kirshner stated that he had no idea whatsoever that Luke and Leia were supposed to be brother and sister while he was directing ESB.

4. There are recent interviews where Lucas admits that Luke and Leia as brother and sister didn't come about until he was writing ROTJ.

5. Finally, the Prequels have proven that Lucas doesn't actually write anything out in advance and simply makes it all up as he goes along.;)

Darth Metalmute
02-28-2010, 08:45 AM
5. Finally, the Prequels have proven that Lucas doesn't actually write anything out in advance and simply makes it all up as he goes along.;)

And that he doesn't read the material that he, himself, had previously written concerning his opera.:rolleyes:

JediTricks
03-01-2010, 06:24 PM
As a teenager (early 1990s), I always had a secret hope to write a comic book about what happened to her. She and Noa left Endor, but, unfortunately, it seems they leave right as the Imperial presence arrives to build the second Death Star. Noa's been stranded for ages; he doesn't have any Imperial-era identification, and can't explain why this random kid is with him. They arrest him and turn her over to the SW equivalent of "the state," and she winds up in the Imperial Academy until it's liberated by agents of the New Republic a few years later. Inspired by their example but misinterpreting exactly what Luke and the Jedi stand for, she becomes a sort of do-gooder anti-Imperial vigilante, cruising the galaxy with two sidekicks, an Ewok who left Endor after ROTJ because he felt "walled in" on Endor and a Jawa mechanic.

Even then, I knew there wasn't much chance of it happening, but my heart still sunk when I read that she was turned into such a lame plot device in such a horrid book.Wow, the Ewok movies really affected you, didn't they? That's a mountain of thought put into the character's future. Kinda violent too. I can see why her canon use must be especially frustrating then.



That is something I've definitely been considering. I have been trying to imagine exactly what happened to Jann Tosh after Joe Johnston and Peter Sauder so abruptly wrote him out of the Droids cartoon (Episode 9: Coby and the Starhunters). I've even been working on a drawing of Jann Tosh that I might post to the internet soon. Plus, I've got a few ideas of what he might have looked like by the time of the OT (by my guess, he would have been at least 10-15 years older, in his late 20s or even early 30s).

Now that I think about it, maybe it's a blessing in disguise when one of your favorite Star Wars characters falls off the radar and gets totally forgotten.It never fails to amaze me how pre-Prequels Star Wars was able inspire imaginations into that sort of passion, how it used to be able to take you anywhere. Good luck on your work.



I also love Star Tours. My first trip to Disneyland was in June 1997, just a few months after seeing the films and falling in love with them. So the ride is one of my earliest SW memories and I still love going back and riding it (though I can't wait for the new version).Right on! I love the original, so I hope they keep it like they originally intended on 1 or 2 of the 4 units. Star Tours blew my mind as a kid and kept my enthusiasm so high, I ended up buying all the posters from the ride and dreaming of places the Starspeeder 3000 could take me in the SW universe. I really hope the new ride works as well as the original. It bums me out how ramshackled they've let the ride get lately, because it's still a top-notch simulator ride, it's just that they haven't kept it up.



But your enjoyment of the older stories shouldn't go away if you don't like the newer stuff, at least not entirely. I still love the first Pirates of the Caribbean movie even though I didn't care for the second and third; I can still watch and enjoy it and ignore the newer ones. They're not coming into your house and ripping the comics and books away from you - you still have them and you are free to enjoy them again and again.It reflects upon it. The thing about the 2nd and 3rd POTC movies is that, at the end, the characters come out the other side pretty much still able to go wherever, do whatever, be whatever they want (well, Will is worse off, but it's still open enough). There's nothing that funnels Jack into becoming an accountant, or being born a woman. There's nothing that redesigns the beloved roles into being lesser-thans. Once you see something that does those things, you can't un-see it, it's always going to impact your future thoughts, something that must to be swept aside must first be seen to do so.

The prequels are a deconstruction of the OT, that is their point (despite the concept standing in direct contrast of Star Wars, but that's a different thread already), unlike what Yoda says, there's no way to unlearn what they said, they impact everything else, they are meant to directly comment on the OT. The same is true for those EU stories, at best now they are elseworlds material which always feels like it stands alone with no future and no past, it exists only as an exercise in that one moment and nothing more because it is now a pocket story.


Yes, thanks, we've all seen the 70-minute review. :p :DHarry S. Plinkett is a god, even if he is a fictional character! But it's an excellent point that review made, the character is restricted to being less than he was before by that act.


I believe I tried to read SOTE when I was 7 or 8, which was probably far too young. I read a chapter - maybe not even that - and gave up, as it didn't appeal to me. I never had an N64 so I didn't play the game. I was never too huge into comics, so that one passed me by. I did have some of the figures (I have them all now) - bounty hunter Chewbacca was the first SW figure I ever bought, actually, so I was somewhat familiar with the basics of the story, but then as now, I was more interested in the films.Oh, you missed out, you should have been exposed to either the game or the comic at that age, I imagine that would have been just right. You'd probably get more out of the novel now, but the comic has visual appeal that helps, and the game is immersively fun.



As to what is SW to me, maybe I'm not sure. I think the prequel era is my favorite, what with the Jedi and Clone Wars and everything. Maybe that's just because I'm more invested in it right now with the show and everything. The pilot stuff (Rogue Squadron, etc.) never appealed to me too much when I was younger; as you said, maybe it's too "military" for me (though I love the clone stories on the show, so who knows). I read most of the Jedi Apprentice series (or whatever the Obi-Wan/Qui-Gon series was called) and liked it, despite some issues.I don't mean this to sound as bad as it probably will, but you have grown up in a vastly different era of the way war is waged than the rest of the 20th century. The OT works so well because it plays on everything from pre-WW1 through WW2 and Korea up until Vietnam, not just the military stuff but the way storytelling about characters like warrior monks and wizards and farmboys and princesses are expressed. You were born in an era that had seen the cap put on that bottle, the original Star Wars trilogy was the ultimate global expression of those concepts as far as cinema went, so a new dynamic had to be formed right around the time that the world started viewing war differently as well.


KOTOR bugged me because it definitely didn't seem like 4,000 years before the films. The only real instance of them trying to make it seem old-fashioned was a crazy guy on the street saying anti-alien things, and the main character mentioning how he thought those feelings were all gone from the galaxy. The changes between the PT and the OT eras were way more drastic than the changes between KOTOR and film eras, which I believe was just poorly done on the part of those who made the game. That's what I was talking about, how something can state on another, how it can funnel imaginations into a smaller area. If the prequels had never come out though, KOTOR would still feel out of place claiming 4000 years back, but then again, it wasn't meant to be remotely that far back anyway, that was Lucasfilm's insistence that it not step on the Prequels.

RENDAR LIVES
03-01-2010, 07:26 PM
I used to love Green Lantern, but I can't get into all this Blue/Red/Yellow/Chartreuse/Vermillion/Stripedy Lanterns vs superhero zombies stuff that's been going on for a while.

I'd wholeheartedly recommend Emerald Dawn and Emerald Dawn II, but I don't think they're still in print, which is sad. Those, to me, are the definitive Green Lantern tales. Actually, it looks like the first one is, which is better than nothing, I suppose.

I collect hardcovers and can no longer afford to buy the single issues and trades so I am waiting on this. Yes, I think a whole spectrum of lanterns is ridiculous too. Someone was bound to do it sooner or later. I'm glad Geoff Johns is handeling it though. As far as the dead rising, it seems like the next biggest threat if you are trying to give readers something bigger and better.


Why? Does it really bother you when one group of imaginary stories replaces another group of imaginary stories? Just enjoy it for what it is. If you worry about the specifics, then you'll just go nuts. They've been retconning constantly; the Clone Wars era is just the most recent example and apparently people have forgotten about any other times this has happened. And I don't buy the idea that Lucas has sold out, or just does this for the money - if he did that, then I doubt he'd be so personally involved with the products, and the money he makes wouldn't go right back into furthering the art of filmmaking.

I don't really get into much EU. I tried to start both SOTE and HTTE and couldn't finish, but maybe now that I'm older I could appreciate them more. I like some occasional novels, mostly ones set during the prequel era. I just don't like much of what happened after ROTJ on the timeline or the way in which it was handled, so I just avoid it for the most part. I also really don't care what happened 4,000 years before the films, and the KOTOR game was fun but not mind-blowing, so that's not a huge area of interest, either. I've read the comics that come with the comic packs, some of which were good, some of which were mind-numbingly awful (Legacy). I also have a few of the Clone Wars comics compilations that were released over the last seven years or so, which were pretty fun for the most part. I tend to stick to the movies and TV show.

It bothers me because I am passionate about it. Why do they even bother stating specific timelines if they don't give a crap? I know it's been done before and they chalk it up to poor record keeping or how Palpatine tried to re-write things historically durring the Jedi Purge. Okay, I can deal with it only so many times. Take Spider-man. They wanted him single so they told everyone the hero they had been reading about for the last 30 years was just a clone. People got upset so they changed it back. Then they tried to kill off Mary Jane but it didn't work so they brought her back. Then they had him make a deal with the devil that basically erased him ever being married. They said it's hard to write a hero as a married guy. they wanted to make him cooler. Spidey is a nerd! That's his appeal. There are a lot of people out there who can relate to that. Life doesn't end after marriage as anyone can tell you. It's just lazy writing. A real writer like Micheal A. Stackpole can take existing characters like Corran Horn and shoe-horn him into something like Jedi Academy without screwing up continuity. I, Jedi was brilliant not to mention very artistic in the first person narrating. Geoff Johns is another example of great writing. He has taken several things from Green Lantern and "tweaked" them into a cohesive modern retelling but it wasn't a straight out retcon. He didn't just start over or change things but instead brought things together that had serious plot holes to begin with making it very believable for those of us who do pay attention. Retcons are a smack in the face to all those writers who have contributed to the saga. All that hard work gone to waste. It shows no respect and usually someone does a retcon because they are borrowing a previous idea and think they can do it better. How does one envy enough to imitate but care so little to re-write anothers story?

I may be minority on this but I don't think lucas really furthers film making. He is certainly a pionere no doubt but I think there is something far more artistic about tangible acting and props and sets than all the CGI none sense. Not only does it show the hard work but there is a true sense of reality to it. My kids really appreciate the classic films far more than the new ones. Also if I offered them to watch Labrynth (I'm not sure how to spell that) or Dark Crystal versus Shrek or some other CGI movie they will choose the puppets every time. They are really captivated by it. Before the pre-quels Lucas had only directed a couple movies. ESB and ROTS were done by different directors and they are arguably the most popular films. I give Lucas credit on good ideas but he doesn't deserve the credit for everything Star Wars. Too many people have come together to put in their own touch and imput for one person to claim it for themselves.

I in no means intend to offend those who do not read but I wanna equate watching TV versus reading as lazyness. Before I get flamed for that comment I wanna stress that isn't quite what I mean. It's just for lack of a better analagy. Real lazyness is the people who moan about what they are watching but don't get up to change the channel because the remote isnt within reach. Reading takes longer, requires imagination and doesn't have pretty pictures all the time. Reading in general encourages imagination. I think what I see in my minds eye is far more thrilling that what I see in the movies. Not to mention all the stuff in the screen play that doesn't make it to film because they don't want the movie to run to long due to budget or just people complaining about getting too much for their money's worth at the theatre. There is easily 3 times more material in ROTS novelization than there is in the movie. So much more durring the battle of Coruscant, Palpatine pursuading Anakin to the dark side, about how it heavily suggests Plaguis created Anakin by influencing the medichlorians, or how Mace Windu's mistrust of Anakin and Palpatine's faith in Anakin actually is the biggest factor that ultimately determines the fate of the galaxy. BOO mace WINDU!!!


JabbaJohn, it would bother me if I had to work hard to imagine one group of imaginary stories replacing another group of imaginary stories, because it would tax my imagination. Can you imagine that? Then I'd imagine I was having an imaginary breakdown in which I was imagining that it was perfectly normal to worry about it if one imaginary timeline didn't mesh correctly with another imaginary timeline. Then I'd imagine that some imaginary people were saying there's something wrong with my imagination and I can't imagine that because I write fiction which is imaginary stories and I need my imagination in order to imagine them. Then this whole imaginary scenerio wouldn't really be an imaginary phenomenon but reality which is the opposite of imaginary. I'd imagine this would drive me nuts. ME? Imagine that! :crazed:

Dude you are too funny! Who put the quarter in you? lol

[QUOTE=Darth Metalmute;718561]I tried to read the Thrawn Trilogy in 1991 when it came out. I was excited that finally, something new Star Wars came out. I didn't get past the first 3 chapters. I was 12 at the time and just couldn't get into it. However, I picked it up again in paperback a couple of yesrs later and absolutely loved it.
To this day, it is my favorite book series, and I read alot. I probably read it once or twice a year. I even prefer it over the Prequals.

You should give it another chance. I doubt it will bring you over to the "Dark Side", but I bet you'll enjoy it now.


As for canon and ret-coning, I remember being so ticked off after watching Episode II that Lucas didn't call the Kamino cloning chambers, Spaarti cloning cylinders. It seemed to me such a dirty trick, almost a slap in the face to Zahn. Lucas gave reference to the 501st, in appriciation for the support of the fan group, yet couldn't give credit to Zahn, who can take partial credit for the resurection of the Star Wars franchise.

Now with the Clone Wars, I don't even pay attention to what goes where, and how does it fit anymore. I don't care. The Simpsons don't care, Lucas doesn't care, why should I? It's not as if the argument is whether or not Armstrong landed on the moon or a studio in Hollywood.

I think Zahn had some great ideas. I love the concept of the story very much. However I liked the telling in the comics better than in the novels. I think it has to do with Zahn's pacing. I read his novels but I do not like them. Outbound flight was awful IMO. Usually I keep my books. they are among my most prized posessions because I feel there is wisdom and they inspire me or give me something to aspire to but shortly after I read something from Timothy Zahn I hand it off to other Star Wars fans I know who are interested. Im not saying he is a bad writer by any means, it's just not my flavor.


I don't let time lines get in the way of a good story. Yes I understand that there is a finite amount of time between movies but as long as they don't do things like "6 months later...." then I can pretend all of season one happened in a month or so and it will be a long time before the season stack up enough that I worry about it. It's kinda like reading any modern day comic. The original X-Men were teenagers in the 60's and so now they would be in thier 60's. You get too many writers in the mix and enough stories in a timeline you are going to reach a point that you have to break the timeline or just stop putting out new stuff. Lucas will never choose the latter.

As stated by Darth Metalmute, every time they pop into hyperspace it takes roughly a week to get from system to system. Many people gripe that Anakin and Padme fell in love too soon but the whole story of AOTC takes place over a few months, not days. Lol. Like politics could move any faster. ROTS on the other hand does roughly take place in like a week or so. They shouldn't be so specific if they want backwards compatability. Comics are different in that the characters seem immortal. they never stay dead and they don't age. Star Wars has characters that stay dead and it spans thousands of years. There is plenty of room to maneuver. Isn't the reason he wants the live action show to be about "B" characters because he doesn't know how to fit it all in? So no you don't have to break the timeline or stop putting out new stuff. See above comment about Micheal Stackpole. Lazy writers cannot do it but a good one can. I am not knocking on the CW writers or Lucas even as much as we all know CW is a half hour comercial to generate kids interest in the toys. It's to make money a.k.a. sell out.


Imagine for a second that the toy line was going to be switched permamently to 5-6" scale. They were going to release everything again, but different. Would you buy it? Would you be able to afford it? Do you have the space? What does that say about the dioramas/displays you've built when the next stormtrooper release is taller than the Droid Factory Dark Trooper? Can you spend another 20-30 years amassing and apreciating what you just did with 3.75"?

Well that's what it is now that CW is going to overwrite everything. Maybe this will happen every generation or so, but remember, it was the EU stories and a handful of video games that were noncanonical that carried the Star Wars torch before PotF2, Special Editions and Prequals. What you've said to your hardcore base who got you through a dark time is that now we no longer need you.

There's a difference between retconning things from 1979 and 1980 so it fits with something that is published in 1999 or 2003 and whole sale contradicting everything and saying that this continuity no longer will be used.

I agree. I have used the same analogy when it comes to the toys being for kids comment as well. When ALL the collectors have walked away I would love to see what happens. If a bunch of them walking away from the toyline has done this much damage then I can't imagine we make up such a small portion of sales as Hasbro makes it sound.


Actually I wouldn't mind if they retconned the Clone Wars to make it 5 or 6 years long. It's not like Padme Anakin and Obi-Wan definitely look 3 years older from AOTC to ROTS.

Yeah but then you are screwing with the OT and all the stories about other characters during the "Dark Times".


Well, technically, Star Wars films have been contradicting non-movie sources since the second Star Wars film. The novel, Splinter of the Mind's Eye, killed off Darth Vader at the end of the story and left Leia physically scarred by Vader's lightsaber. Clearly that was disregarded from the continuity once ESB was released. Although to be fair, Splinter of the Mind's Eye was written as a "low-budget sequel" to Star Wars just in case the movie failed at the box office.

However, both ESB and ROTJ retconned the identity of Luke's father as established in the 1970s Star Wars newspaper strip (Luke's father's original name was Tan Skywalker). Plus, ROTJ established Luke and Leia as brother and sister, which was clearly never intended prior to the making of ROTJ.

So, there is a certain degree of flexibility required when you follow Star Wars EU and you need to be ready to have your favorite, non-film stories and characters pushed out of continuity or completely rewritten at any time (just ask longtime Boba Fett fans how it felt to watch AOTC for the first time).

I think I've gotten used to it now as it happens with each new movie or TV release. However, the first time is always the hardest one to get over and I guess I never will truly accept as canon any Star Wars stories that were written after 1989.

My jaw hit the floor when you admitted to likeing EU. :thumbsup: That is essentially what droids and the Ewok stories are as well as CW was at one point. Yes, there are certain degrees of things I think can be overlooked. Some things will be hard to keep track of or get overlooked. Human error and accidents are different than flat out deliberate re-writes. As an aspiring writer myself I empathize with Lucas. I have written a novel. It is waaay harder than I ever imagined. You easily go back and rewrite so many drafts to get things to fit or squeeze in new ideas, make sure dialog fits, keep events current without giving away an ending, pacing, blah blah blah, etcetera etcetera. There is just too much and in the end you have to be happy with what you have got as "good enough" and turn it in because you know you will never be satisfied with it as long as you live. Hindsight is 20/20. You have to move along at some point. Chewbacca couldn't live forever. He had to die at some point and so does Luke. It amazes me that they have people at Lucas Film where their sole job is to keep the novels comics and movies in continuity and then they can let a show like Clone Wars get away with whatever they want because integrity can be purchased.


Well, no one gets this but I do: the Sith were the good guys!

Palpatine and Anakin only wanted to bring a New Order to the galaxy and they had to prove how special interests had corrupted the Republic Senate and the Jedi Order upheld the status quo in "the name of freedom." (First there was the corporate capitalism of the Trade Federation, Techno Union, Corporate Alliance, Commerce Guild, InterGalactic Banking Clan, and more.)

The Rebel Alliance victory re-established chaos and giving voices in the government to the ignorant that we often see in our world today.

While training as a Jedi, Anakin became highly educated and Palpatine clearly was. However, no one would just blindly trust that those two knew what was best for the galaxy, even if they did. So they had to institute actions such as Order 66 to pave their way.

But ultimately, ignorance triumphed over good, and in ROTJ, the Imperial utopian society fell back into the rabble that challenged it. I know there are those of you who will cite Luke's inherent "good" characteristics, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

For the EU fans, look at how well the Imperial Remnant was ran out of Bastion with the eventual emergence of Emperor Fel.

The Yuuzhan Vong had to isolate it and could never conquer it (nor could the New Republic either).

One day Star Wars' good guys will be revealed to be who they truly were. :yes:

Yeah. I loved how Yuuzhan Vong mentioned that the Imperials would have easily crushed them. With Death Stars and World Devastators they wouldn't have stood a chance. Yet as with most wars, determination and guerilla tactics usually win versus superior numbers or tech. There is always someone stronger or faster but a smarter fighter will always win. I really empathize with the Sith. They don't veiw themselves as villians at all. I can see where the Jedi's lack of faith and fear in Anakin pushed him into Palpatine's arms. Anakin really tried so hard to do the right thing. The movie does not portray Palpatine urging him to kill Dooku strongly as the book. Nor does it properly show how he refuses to kill Palpatine out of impulse and tells the masters only to have them give Anakin the "Do as I say, not as I do" attitude. Then he realizes that momment is the balance point and he shows up to see a defensless old man about to have his life snuffed out by an angry surly Jedi. However the end doesn't justify the means. Hindsight is 20/20. How many times have you done something or reacted and later thought "I could have handled that better"? Even if how you handled it was good enough, you realize there is always a better way. Luke is like that. He knows that taking his time to come to the right decision may cost lives but comming to a rushed conclusion can be even more catastrophic and may even cost him his soul. As also stated in the NJO he tells the nights sure they could wipe out the Vong with ease but then they'd have a greater evil, a thousand darth Vaders marching around the galaxy. He isn't without flaw or emotion himself as he dissagrees with the old rule about no marriage for Jedi and how he slays Lumiya believing she killed Mara. Flawed as anyone else but a stand up man none the less.


And that he doesn't read the material that he, himself, had previously written concerning his opera.:rolleyes:

As I said before, it's hard to not always want to touch up your work, your master piece. There will always be so many drafts and with film making versus pen and paper, you have to worry about budget and time constraints. Personally I feel if he needs to do such things, rather than re-write he should keep pooping out more movies. Apparently his intention was to do serials in the first place. Even after he stated he wouldn't do a third trilogy it was reported that Harrison Ford turned down $40 million to do another Star Wars film because he didn't want to spend every day in a cramped cockpit with someone wearing a smelly carpet as a costume. Most movies take 5 years or more to make like the Riddick Chronicles or Underworld but these big franchise movies like Iron-Man and Star Wars get crapped out every 3 if they aren't filmed back to back. Lucas should stick to his trade or at least let someone else take a crack at it like he did with ESB and ROTJ.

Wow that was a lot. How do the mods do it?:tired:

RENDAR LIVES
03-01-2010, 07:37 PM
It reflects upon it. The thing about the 2nd and 3rd POTC movies is that, at the end, the characters come out the other side pretty much still able to go wherever, do whatever, be whatever they want (well, Will is worse off, but it's still open enough). There's nothing that funnels Jack into becoming an accountant, or being born a woman. There's nothing that redesigns the beloved roles into being lesser-thans. Once you see something that does those things, you can't un-see it, it's always going to impact your future thoughts, something that must to be swept aside must first be seen to do so.

The prequels are a deconstruction of the OT, that is their point (despite the concept standing in direct contrast of Star Wars, but that's a different thread already), unlike what Yoda says, there's no way to unlearn what they said, they impact everything else, they are meant to directly comment on the OT. The same is true for those EU stories, at best now they are elseworlds material which always feels like it stands alone with no future and no past, it exists only as an exercise in that one moment and nothing more because it is now a pocket story.



Yeah. It's hard to forget about especially when all forth comming material will be bound by what has "become".

Basically the PT was to explaine how the OT came to be but how do we get from point A to point B if point B doesn't exist? It becomes kind of an oximoron. Ah! Paradox is the word I was looking for. Like H. G. Wells Time Machine. He can't go back in time to save his fiance because then he would never have had a reason to create the time machine in the first place.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
03-02-2010, 05:35 PM
It bothers me because I am passionate about it.
I suppose I can see where you are coming from. I'm passionate about SW as well (obviously) but most of the EU is definitely not my cup of tea. As it was brought up on the Forcecast fairly recently, maybe I feel differently since the stuff I like is more "protected" from retcons than the EU, so since I haven't ever experienced this sort of thing, I don't know if I can fully relate. Like when pbarnard (or whoever) mentioned Hasbro suddenly switching to 6" figures - you just know that's never going to happen. But even if they did, I would still have all the original ones and be able to enjoy them, regardless of what else is available. That's the best attitude to take, in my opinion, but I know it's not what everyone here feels.


Retcons are a smack in the face to all those writers who have contributed to the saga. All that hard work gone to waste. It shows no respect and usually someone does a retcon because they are borrowing a previous idea and think they can do it better. How does one envy enough to imitate but care so little to re-write anothers story?
I don't really feel this is so. I know there is a lot of anti-Lucas sentiment (you probably have a great deal of it), but you have to remember that he created this universe. He obviously had a great deal of help from a number of talented, creative people, but their work sprang from his ideas, and everyone seems to forget this. If not for him making Star Wars in the first place, there wouldn't be any Timothy Zahn or Michael Stackpole or Karen Traviss SW novels. Don't you think J.K. Rowling deserves to be able to do whatever she wants with Harry Potter? Don't you think J.R.R. Tolkien deserved to do whatever he wanted with Lord of the Rings? They had/have sole ownership of those characters and situations, and nobody (to my knowledge, outside of maybe Tolkien's son) else was allowed to do anything with them (aside from the film adaptations) or to create new stories in those universes. I'm relatively sure that the Star Trek "EU" is labeled as non-canon, so people just enjoy it for what it is; when an "official" Trek story changes something, people just let it be. George let others play in his universe and tell their own stories, but I still believe that his vision matters above everyone else's; he let people tell Clone Wars stories for years, and now he's telling his own Clone Wars stories, which are more how he sees this part of his story.


I may be minority on this but I don't think lucas really furthers film making. He is certainly a pionere no doubt but I think there is something far more artistic about tangible acting and props and sets than all the CGI none sense. Not only does it show the hard work but there is a true sense of reality to it. My kids really appreciate the classic films far more than the new ones. Also if I offered them to watch Labrynth (I'm not sure how to spell that) or Dark Crystal versus Shrek or some other CGI movie they will choose the puppets every time. They are really captivated by it. Before the pre-quels Lucas had only directed a couple movies. ESB and ROTS were done by different directors and they are arguably the most popular films. I give Lucas credit on good ideas but he doesn't deserve the credit for everything Star Wars. Too many people have come together to put in their own touch and imput for one person to claim it for themselves.
This is obviously your own opinion. A great deal of hard work goes into making effects in the computer; it's not nearly as easy as everyone seems to think. But I was mainly referring to how the money he makes mostly goes right back into making films, which is a behavior I would not call "selling out".


I in no means intend to offend those who do not read but I wanna equate watching TV versus reading as lazyness. Before I get flamed for that comment I wanna stress that isn't quite what I mean. It's just for lack of a better analagy. Real lazyness is the people who moan about what they are watching but don't get up to change the channel because the remote isnt within reach. Reading takes longer, requires imagination and doesn't have pretty pictures all the time. Reading in general encourages imagination. I think what I see in my minds eye is far more thrilling that what I see in the movies. Not to mention all the stuff in the screen play that doesn't make it to film because they don't want the movie to run to long due to budget or just people complaining about getting too much for their money's worth at the theatre. There is easily 3 times more material in ROTS novelization than there is in the movie. So much more durring the battle of Coruscant, Palpatine pursuading Anakin to the dark side, about how it heavily suggests Plaguis created Anakin by influencing the medichlorians, or how Mace Windu's mistrust of Anakin and Palpatine's faith in Anakin actually is the biggest factor that ultimately determines the fate of the galaxy. BOO mace WINDU!!!

I have to ask: what was your first exposure to Star Wars? How did you fall in love with it? Was it a book? Or was it a movie? When you want to experience SW, do you read the books instead of watching the movies? Do you honestly get the same thrill from reading the novelizations as you do from watching the films?

By their nature, they're obviously completely different storytelling media. Reading allows for a more detailed experience in terms of story and character, but movies aren't going to be 40 hours long to accomodate everything. It's just not feasible for a number of reasons. Anyway, I believe that SW works best in the visual medium. It always has and it always will (when done well). That's not necessarily true for everything, though; clearly you like reading far more than you like watching films, which is your own personal preference, and there are many adaptations that do not work well. But, again, SW to me is best in film and television. Seeing a lightsaber duel or a space battle. Hearing R2-D2's beeps and Darth Vader's breathing. Those are as much a part of the SW experience as anything else, and you can't get them in a book.


I am not knocking on the CW writers or Lucas even as much as we all know CW is a half hour comercial to generate kids interest in the toys. It's to make money a.k.a. sell out.
Again, why do you say this? I'm willing to bet you don't watch the show. There are some great stories told well, along with the cool action and designs - just like the films. People used the "it's just a toy commercial" line for the movies (Ewoks, anyone?) as well, failing to understand or appreciate them. When you get right down to it, aren't the books and comics and video games just as much of an advertisement for SW? You're still plunking down money that goes back to GL, just for a different product.


I agree. I have used the same analogy when it comes to the toys being for kids comment as well. When ALL the collectors have walked away I would love to see what happens. If a bunch of them walking away from the toyline has done this much damage then I can't imagine we make up such a small portion of sales as Hasbro makes it sound.
The collector-oriented products are the ones that are hurting. The kid-focused stuff is doing fantastically well.


It amazes me that they have people at Lucas Film where their sole job is to keep the novels comics and movies in continuity and then they can let a show like Clone Wars get away with whatever they want because integrity can be purchased.
As I have said before, Leland Chee will add everything into an all-encompassing continuity after the show is over. He won't do it until then as more issues will undoubtedly arise and people will just continue to get frustrated.


As I said before, it's hard to not always want to touch up your work, your master piece. There will always be so many drafts and with film making versus pen and paper, you have to worry about budget and time constraints. Personally I feel if he needs to do such things, rather than re-write he should keep pooping out more movies. Apparently his intention was to do serials in the first place. Even after he stated he wouldn't do a third trilogy it was reported that Harrison Ford turned down $40 million to do another Star Wars film because he didn't want to spend every day in a cramped cockpit with someone wearing a smelly carpet as a costume. Most movies take 5 years or more to make like the Riddick Chronicles or Underworld but these big franchise movies like Iron-Man and Star Wars get crapped out every 3 if they aren't filmed back to back. Lucas should stick to his trade or at least let someone else take a crack at it like he did with ESB and ROTJ.
The serials idea is alive and well, and it's called The Clone Wars.

Are you saying that Riddick and Underworld are better than Star Wars and Iron Man? :eek: Different films take different amounts of time to make. The OT films each took three years, does that mean they were crapped out as well?

Lucas is letting someone else take a crack at it. He's the executive producer on The Clone Wars, occasionally coming up with stories and helping those who make it. Dave Filoni is the supervising director of the show, not George. It sounds exactly like his involvement on ESB and ROTJ.

El Chuxter
03-02-2010, 07:55 PM
Don't you think J.K. Rowling deserves to be able to do whatever she wants with Harry Potter? Don't you think J.R.R. Tolkien deserved to do whatever he wanted with Lord of the Rings? They had/have sole ownership of those characters and situations, and nobody (to my knowledge, outside of maybe Tolkien's son) else was allowed to do anything with them (aside from the film adaptations) or to create new stories in those universes. I'm relatively sure that the Star Trek "EU" is labeled as non-canon, so people just enjoy it for what it is; when an "official" Trek story changes something, people just let it be.

Then again, using Harry Potter as an example, Rowling didn't write the books about Harry's years at Hogwarts, offering lots of references to and information about the past generation, all the while promising she'd write a series about Snape and James Potter and the rest, then say she wasn't, let someone else do a videogame about that time period, let another guy do a cartoon, have her representatives say this was all canon, then come back and write a series about James as a kid that completely contradicts everything the others said (and half of what she said previously).

Oh, and the series really glosses over the rise of Voldemort during this time, and she brings in someone to do a comic book about Voldemort, and fans say the Voldemort comic is "better" Harry Potter than the series about James, so suddenly she writes her own Voldemort comic, which totally and completely invalidates the previous comic. (Not to mention that there's not a moment for Lilly or Snape to sleep during the entire time, since now it's a really crowded decade.)

Part of the problem is that it's always been common knowledge that Lucas has veto power and input into the EU, though he says it's non-canon... even as everyone else within Lucasfilm says it is. It's not like Star Trek, where they say all non-TV stuff is non-canon and just for fun, or Hitchhiker's Guide, where everyone sees that sixth book by another writer as nothing more than a money-grabbing bastardization. It just gets to be a tad confusing.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
03-03-2010, 12:52 AM
The continued Harry Potter analogy brings up the question: so you would rather have no extra material at all, aside from the main source? That's what you get with HP. With SW, there's a ton of extra stuff to enjoy, because the creator allowed for it to exist.

And the Lucasfilm position has defined several levels of canon. Essentially, it's the films, then the TV shows, then the other current EU, then the older outdated EU, and then everything else. There is absolutely no way in hell that George can keep up with even a fraction of the EU; sure, he allows it to happen and get released, and he has say in some of the big issues, but he shouldn't be bound to it if he wants to tell a different story. That's how I feel, anyway.

And if it's so confusing, again, why can't you just read/watch/play what you personally want to and forget the rest? You can't possibly have enough time to absorb it all, so why not just focus on what you yourself like?

Mad Slanted Powers
03-03-2010, 01:37 AM
There is so much material, it would be difficult to tell sometimes if something I'm reading or watching contradicts something else. Plus, it has been so long since I have read some things, I wouldn't remember it anyway. Someday, I hope to get through it all. At that point, I can decide which stories I like and consider MSP level canon.

There are a lot of stories about real life events that are fictional, and may even contradict events that actually happened. If we look at Star Wars as something that actually happened, then perhaps all these stories are just historical fiction. So, it is kind of reverse of the real world. In the real world, a movie based on a true story often is changed or embellished to make it more interesting, or to make a certain point. In the Star Wars Universe, stories that aren't as interesting to some people are becoming canon, and thus turning the EU it superseded into the more interesting fictional account.

At least with Star Wars, there has been a pretty good effort to keep the continuity organized. When I read the Star Trek Chronology, they didn't even consider any of the novels, and maybe only a couple elements from the animated series . I think that most of the early Star Wars EU that was overwritten was comics, cartoons, and stories from an RPG. The comics had already been contradicted by the movies. The nature of an RPG is much like a video game in that it won't always happen exactly the same. I've yet to see the Droids and Ewoks cartoons, but they don't seem like something I would necessarily take all that seriously. They don't seem to be too important to the overall saga.

Darth Metalmute
03-03-2010, 08:07 AM
I don't really feel this is so. I know there is a lot of anti-Lucas sentiment (you probably have a great deal of it), but you have to remember that he created this universe. He obviously had a great deal of help from a number of talented, creative people, but their work sprang from his ideas, and everyone seems to forget this. If not for him making Star Wars in the first place, there wouldn't be any Timothy Zahn or Michael Stackpole or Karen Traviss SW novels.

Lucas has full control of his universe, and rightfully so. My problem is that Lucas signs off on the EU, even though he has the intent to change it. Now-a-days, it doesn't take a whole lot of research to find out whats already out there, and it's alot easier to write the history of something, when the present and is already written. To me, it seems like he wants to be the only one that is creating everything in his universe; as if he changes things on purpose, as a giant middle finger to those whose have helped build his universe. Which once again, is all fine and good, except he is signing off on the EU. To me, even if you are the creator, you can't have things both ways.

It's like the South Park episode where he wants to put Ewoks in "Raiders of the Lost Ark".

bigbarada
03-03-2010, 03:13 PM
Lucas has full control of his universe, and rightfully so. My problem is that Lucas signs off on the EU, even though he has the intent to change it. Now-a-days, it doesn't take a whole lot of research to find out whats already out there, and it's alot easier to write the history of something, when the present and is already written. To me, it seems like he wants to be the only one that is creating everything in his universe; as if he changes things on purpose, as a giant middle finger to those whose have helped build his universe. Which once again, is all fine and good, except he is signing off on the EU. To me, even if you are the creator, you can't have things both ways.

It's like the South Park episode where he wants to put Ewoks in "Raiders of the Lost Ark".

I highly doubt that Lucas himself is personally reading all of these stories. I would assume that he delegates that responsibillity to one or more of his employees.

El Chuxter
03-03-2010, 03:28 PM
When asked, he's answered both ways. I do know he personally shot down several things over the years, like when he told Timothy Zahn he couldn't call the Noghri "Sith" (since there'd been no explanation why Vader was a Dark Lord of the Sith) and he couldn't use the Royal Guards in his story. He also was the one who suggested that writers kill Chewbacca.

I think he follows some and not others. The one that kills me is the discrepancy between the two Clone Wars series; Lucas himself claimed to be a huge fan of the original, and is apparently a fan of everything else Tartakovsky did, so why come back and undo it? That's not a way to show how much you dig something.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
03-03-2010, 05:06 PM
When asked, he's answered both ways. I do know he personally shot down several things over the years, like when he told Timothy Zahn he couldn't call the Noghri "Sith" (since there'd been no explanation why Vader was a Dark Lord of the Sith) and he couldn't use the Royal Guards in his story. He also was the one who suggested that writers kill Chewbacca.

I think he follows some and not others. The one that kills me is the discrepancy between the two Clone Wars series; Lucas himself claimed to be a huge fan of the original, and is apparently a fan of everything else Tartakovsky did, so why come back and undo it? That's not a way to show how much you dig something.
The writers wanted to kill someone to show the gravity of the situation (insert falling moon joke here) and he vetoed killing Luke, Han, or Leia, suggesting Chewbacca instead.

We've probably gone over this before, but how does the new Clone Wars series "undo" anything from the old one? The old series certainly didn't cover the entirety of the war. You yourself have said it could easily take place during the montage that bridges the characters' AOTC and ROTS designs.

Darth Metalmute
03-03-2010, 05:38 PM
I highly doubt that Lucas himself is personally reading all of these stories.

I agree, but why wouldn't he want to? If you created something, wouldn't you want to know what people are adding to it? It's not like it's an never-ending vault of literature.


I would assume that he delegates that responsibillity to one or more of his employees.


I imagine he does as well. But, it still remains that it's his stamp on accepting the EU and that EU information is easily accessible.

RENDAR LIVES
03-03-2010, 08:05 PM
I suppose I can see where you are coming from. I'm passionate about SW as well (obviously) but most of the EU is definitely not my cup of tea. As it was brought up on the Forcecast fairly recently, maybe I feel differently since the stuff I like is more "protected" from retcons than the EU, so since I haven't ever experienced this sort of thing, I don't know if I can fully relate. Like when pbarnard (or whoever) mentioned Hasbro suddenly switching to 6" figures - you just know that's never going to happen. But even if they did, I would still have all the original ones and be able to enjoy them, regardless of what else is available. That's the best attitude to take, in my opinion, but I know it's not what everyone here feels.


I don't really feel this is so. I know there is a lot of anti-Lucas sentiment (you probably have a great deal of it), but you have to remember that he created this universe. He obviously had a great deal of help from a number of talented, creative people, but their work sprang from his ideas, and everyone seems to forget this. If not for him making Star Wars in the first place, there wouldn't be any Timothy Zahn or Michael Stackpole or Karen Traviss SW novels. Don't you think J.K. Rowling deserves to be able to do whatever she wants with Harry Potter? Don't you think J.R.R. Tolkien deserved to do whatever he wanted with Lord of the Rings? They had/have sole ownership of those characters and situations, and nobody (to my knowledge, outside of maybe Tolkien's son) else was allowed to do anything with them (aside from the film adaptations) or to create new stories in those universes. I'm relatively sure that the Star Trek "EU" is labeled as non-canon, so people just enjoy it for what it is; when an "official" Trek story changes something, people just let it be. George let others play in his universe and tell their own stories, but I still believe that his vision matters above everyone else's; he let people tell Clone Wars stories for years, and now he's telling his own Clone Wars stories, which are more how he sees this part of his story.


This is obviously your own opinion. A great deal of hard work goes into making effects in the computer; it's not nearly as easy as everyone seems to think. But I was mainly referring to how the money he makes mostly goes right back into making films, which is a behavior I would not call "selling out".


I have to ask: what was your first exposure to Star Wars? How did you fall in love with it? Was it a book? Or was it a movie? When you want to experience SW, do you read the books instead of watching the movies? Do you honestly get the same thrill from reading the novelizations as you do from watching the films?

By their nature, they're obviously completely different storytelling media. Reading allows for a more detailed experience in terms of story and character, but movies aren't going to be 40 hours long to accomodate everything. It's just not feasible for a number of reasons. Anyway, I believe that SW works best in the visual medium. It always has and it always will (when done well). That's not necessarily true for everything, though; clearly you like reading far more than you like watching films, which is your own personal preference, and there are many adaptations that do not work well. But, again, SW to me is best in film and television. Seeing a lightsaber duel or a space battle. Hearing R2-D2's beeps and Darth Vader's breathing. Those are as much a part of the SW experience as anything else, and you can't get them in a book.


Again, why do you say this? I'm willing to bet you don't watch the show. There are some great stories told well, along with the cool action and designs - just like the films. People used the "it's just a toy commercial" line for the movies (Ewoks, anyone?) as well, failing to understand or appreciate them. When you get right down to it, aren't the books and comics and video games just as much of an advertisement for SW? You're still plunking down money that goes back to GL, just for a different product.


The collector-oriented products are the ones that are hurting. The kid-focused stuff is doing fantastically well.


As I have said before, Leland Chee will add everything into an all-encompassing continuity after the show is over. He won't do it until then as more issues will undoubtedly arise and people will just continue to get frustrated.


The serials idea is alive and well, and it's called The Clone Wars.

Are you saying that Riddick and Underworld are better than Star Wars and Iron Man? :eek: Different films take different amounts of time to make. The OT films each took three years, does that mean they were crapped out as well?

Lucas is letting someone else take a crack at it. He's the executive producer on The Clone Wars, occasionally coming up with stories and helping those who make it. Dave Filoni is the supervising director of the show, not George. It sounds exactly like his involvement on ESB and ROTJ.

You seem pretty passionate too. You obviously have put a lot of thought into your comments. Chances are if the line did fold they wouldn't just rehash it. They wouldn't let the license go iether. They would do something entirely new. My whole reason for collecting the toys has little to do with Star Wars but more to do with my Grandfather buying a lot of them for me as a kid. He died when I was very young so for me it's holding onto the past and cherishing if not reliving those memmories. I personally wouldn't mind some ML quality SW figures in a 6" scale. I will have to assume that most collectors like the newer figures and aren't afraid of change in that respect but it is frustrating and defeating when you look at all the money and energy you put into something and feel it was a wasted effort.

I don't have anti-Lucas sentiment. I think he is a pioneer and very creative person. I'm sure he is nice in person to boot. If someone makes poor decisions it doesn't make them a bad person necessarily. I'm sorry but that analogy stinks! Lucas has let people play in his sandbox. The other creators you mentioned have not. That's apples and oranges. Lucas, for money or whatever other reason did let others in. He has people whose sole job is keeping the continuity together. I don't think people would have taken Star Wars so seriously if they didn't. I think it's that continuity that makes it so strong and that it's a whole universe. Otherwise you got Final Fantasy or Transformers. They are emmensly popular properties but people don't have the expectations with it that they do with Star Wars. Ever heard of investors. Well people let investors purchase portions of a company and sadly a lot of times tose investors end up buying out the guy who did all the hard work founding the company and building it. If you want to keep control you make sure you are the majority share holder. Lucas has given permission to these other creators so pardon the expression, it makes him an indian giver.

I agree that I don't know what goes into all the CGI animation but I do know when a new model doesn't need to be made for every scene. I know once a model is built they can start having it move and run and jump. Also it is cheaper than paying actors multi millions. Still, while the CGI clones in the movies may indeed be inpressive can you deny how much hard work went into building all the armor and models from the OT? Or that once you blow something up you had to rebuild it again for another take rather than today where you can just delete and go back?

How has it gone back into film making? I haven't seen a new SW film since ROTS not counting a theatrical release of TV show pilot episodes. Yes, I went and saw it. I even thought it was cool but I cannot deny I payed for something that's on air every week. TV is not film making.

My first exposure was the original movies. I saw ROTJ in theatres but only saw the others on VHS. I even enjoyed the ewok movies as a kid. I said before that I enjoy the books moreso than the films. I have a great and creative imagination. I visualize the duals and Artoo's beeps. I cast the characters with existing actors to form an image and get the voices in my head. There is so much more I can visualize in my mind than they can do with film or even CGI for that matter. In fact, some visual media actually puts me off because it doesn't meet the expectations in my mind based on what I have read. So YES, I can get them in a book. Just because something came first doesn't mean I cannot improve upon it. And hey, I didn't need to change anything about it. I enjoy films almost as much as books. I barely watch TV as I got to red box daily or buy movies weekly. I'd read more but books can be pricey and as with SW we only get so many a year and I usually burn through one in a weekend. I already stated they can't make the movies to long because of the costs and such. I understand. I'm merely stating that you get a lot more story and characterization out of the books. The movies wouldn't be anything without characters and story yet the novels succeed without the visualization. They may not be as popular but then again in this generation more kids play with video games than toys (where they use creativity and imagination) or watch TV rather than read (same, same). To me it's a step back rather than progress. I could bring any number of other topics into this but we'd be getting way side tracked from the discussion. I think it creates dependancy and reduces creativity.

I think CW is a fine show but it is to sell toys as was Ewoks and other properties like G.I.Joe and Spider-Man. I'm fine with putting money down for more SW and that money being used to support all types of merchandise and media. My problem is with them telling me all my investments don't matter anymore. I don't watch it every week but if I'm home and it's on I will watch it over most anything else that's on. As I said, I don't really care for much TV but I always have one on cause I can't stand it being too quiet. So, since you lost the bet how much are you gonna pay me? :D

Hasbro has expressed concern for the line over all in our QAs. They are taking chances and making big steps to get the collectors back. Kids aren't necessarily going to give a crap about CW 30 years from now like we do about SW. They might hold dear to something else like others did then instead of SW. I can't speak for everyone but my kids don't soley collect SW. They want and buy things from every different toyline. Not all the money I spend on toys for them goes to Hasbro let alone one collection. The loyalty and strength is from those of us who have been supporting SW for decades. I know, I know. It's imperical data that I can't back up cause we must cling to Hasbros word even though they don't share sales data or production numbers. I remember them saying they knew it was kids back in the AOTC days because of a surge in role play sales and adults wouldn't be buying them as much as kids. I know a lot of adults, SW fans or not, that have bought several because they think they are cool (at least until the FX ones were released). I think Hasbro was way off the mark. I wonder how much the role play toys dropped when MR released the Force Fx blades. It's things like this that make me wish the line would fold just to prove a point. That and it's becomming too hard to go to a store to buy a $8 toy because of late, limited production runs and poor distribution. I can't afford to pay twice that or more from etailers iether. Besides all that, if they lose the collector line chances are someone is losing a job from the loss of sales. I bet they care.

As long as the show gets viewers and generates merchandise sales it will go on. Imagine the CW lasting 8 seasons? How would this effect the movies. Does this mean Lucas will have an excuse to do a new movie? ROTS 2.0? Really. There is a point of getting rediculous and as long as the money keeps comming in they aren't just gonna say,"enough is enough. Despite the millions we are making we have to end it or Anakin will never become Vader." It is more likely they might start a new season down the road that takes place after the events of ROTS but given previous statements by Hasbro they likely wouldn't do a kids show about a bad guy. I know there are those who hate the EU stuff so I empathize that some stuff is better left alone. The difference is when you don't have to watch or read anything but the movies it's fine. But I am into the expanded stuff and when it's over written it messes with that. Basically my EU doesn't bleed into your cannon but your cannon does affect my EU. Just wait until Lucas decides he needs to completely remake the OT to explaine the PT and CW. Then what happens after that? Remake the PT and CW? It's a never ending cycle of obsessive compulsiveness.

The serials are not the CW. That's not even the right era. From what I remember there was supposed to be a trilogy after ROTJ. I never even heard of the preqel to the prequels before someone mentioned it earlier. It wouldn't even make sense with the numericle numberings of the movies. Oh wait! That's right. We are gonna end up making CW episode 4, 5, and 6 and remake ANH, ESB, and ROTJ.

Though I very much enjoy the Underworld film (the books even moreso and it was very sad to see Blood Enemy rewritten for Rise of the Lycans because I think BE was waaay better and explained a lot more) I in no way like it better than Star Wars. Not by a long shot. It's just with bigger franchises there is more influence. Resident Evil had a slew of horrible games because of the rush to produce more money. Halo is going that route as well I think. What about Spider-Man movies? People loved the first two but most agree number 3 was bad. The story became cramped because of Marvel's (owned by toy biz) need to push Venom into it wich ****ed off Sam Raimi. They also put Peter back into the Black costume for the comics despite his wifes terror of it from being assaulted by Venom wich made absolutely no sense whatsoever except to help build hype for the film. It's a damn shame money and greed can allow for people to sell out integrity. So I was generalizing.

Thanks. That was my whole point. He lets people do things with it. He has employees who keep track of all the EU stuff that he approves. These people took great pains to communicate and not step on each others toes, to cohesively make Dark Horse, the original CW cartoon, Novels all fit within Lucas's timeframe of the films and stories. He decides this and that and approves and changes things. What is the point of a specific timeline or letting people do these things if they are not cannon? Why waste money on paying for those jobs, or time if it's for nothing. They had SW Tales and Visions that are specifically non-cannon. Why not just say all EU is non cannon? Why not say the CW are non-cannon?


The continued Harry Potter analogy brings up the question: so you would rather have no extra material at all, aside from the main source? That's what you get with HP. With SW, there's a ton of extra stuff to enjoy, because the creator allowed for it to exist.

And the Lucasfilm position has defined several levels of canon. Essentially, it's the films, then the TV shows, then the other current EU, then the older outdated EU, and then everything else. There is absolutely no way in hell that George can keep up with even a fraction of the EU; sure, he allows it to happen and get released, and he has say in some of the big issues, but he shouldn't be bound to it if he wants to tell a different story. That's how I feel, anyway.

And if it's so confusing, again, why can't you just read/watch/play what you personally want to and forget the rest? You can't possibly have enough time to absorb it all, so why not just focus on what you yourself like?

Again, what's the point of specific time lines and he has people who do keep him up to date. He lets others play with his ball. He approves all material. As JT said. You can't simply ignore it. You can't unwatch it or unread it. It bleeds over into all that has come before but if the show only lasted a few years and focused more on other characters or events going on tandemly then it wouldn't. Since you seem so fond of wich came first should be the be all end all, then why can't the existing EU be cannon and the CW a in fiction, fiction?


Lucas has full control of his universe, and rightfully so. My problem is that Lucas signs off on the EU, even though he has the intent to change it. Now-a-days, it doesn't take a whole lot of research to find out whats already out there, and it's alot easier to write the history of something, when the present and is already written. To me, it seems like he wants to be the only one that is creating everything in his universe; as if he changes things on purpose, as a giant middle finger to those whose have helped build his universe. Which once again, is all fine and good, except he is signing off on the EU. To me, even if you are the creator, you can't have things both ways.

It's like the South Park episode where he wants to put Ewoks in "Raiders of the Lost Ark".

At least we know Robot Chicken and Family Guy aren't cannon. Thankfully Lucas has been generous enough for others to play in the Star Wars sandbox but I agree, he shouldn't be making it a point to sell something as cannon if it isn't. It's like bait and switch.


The writers wanted to kill someone to show the gravity of the situation (insert falling moon joke here) and he vetoed killing Luke, Han, or Leia, suggesting Chewbacca instead.

We've probably gone over this before, but how does the new Clone Wars series "undo" anything from the old one? The old series certainly didn't cover the entirety of the war. You yourself have said it could easily take place during the montage that bridges the characters' AOTC and ROTS designs.

So what's the debate? You already admitted you know full well he approves and vetos things and it doesn't bother you cause you ignore what you don't care about. That if it doesn't affect you, you don't care but to those of us that it does affect deal with it? I wonder what tune you'd be singing if the shoe was on the other foot. What if you bought a car from and two years later the car was recalled for a defective break peddle? Say they wouldn't pay for the break peddle. You had to. Would you be upset? Or lets go to the extreme. Say the recall was issued after a loved one died because of that defective break peddle? Now no ones life has been claimed thus far thankfully but I think the first analogy applies. I have spent a lot of time and money on SW. It's frustrating. I do not buy every little thing. I buy what I like. My argument is merely on principle but that's not something everyone has these days. I could care less about cantina figures but I don't say they are a waste to make, cause I know others do care about them. Unlike some bashing I see of EU from those who want cantina figures or skiff guards. In the end they both aren't the bread and butter for the franchise but there seem to be equal numbers of folks who love them.

So lets just chalk it up to lazy writers, greedy executives and consumer *****s. Yay! Everybody wins. :thumbsup:

Mr. JabbaJohnL
03-03-2010, 11:59 PM
I don't have anti-Lucas sentiment. I think he is a pioneer and very creative person. I'm sure he is nice in person to boot. If someone makes poor decisions it doesn't make them a bad person necessarily. I'm sorry but that analogy stinks! Lucas has let people play in his sandbox. The other creators you mentioned have not. That's apples and oranges. Lucas, for money or whatever other reason did let others in. He has people whose sole job is keeping the continuity together. I don't think people would have taken Star Wars so seriously if they didn't. I think it's that continuity that makes it so strong and that it's a whole universe. Otherwise you got Final Fantasy or Transformers. They are emmensly popular properties but people don't have the expectations with it that they do with Star Wars. Ever heard of investors. Well people let investors purchase portions of a company and sadly a lot of times tose investors end up buying out the guy who did all the hard work founding the company and building it. If you want to keep control you make sure you are the majority share holder. Lucas has given permission to these other creators so pardon the expression, it makes him an indian giver.
I'm glad to know you don't harbor ill will toward Lucas (as a lot of people seem to these days). I think the comparison with other franchises is valid, but what I meant to say was, isn't it better for someone to allow others to create more stories in their universe and occasionally change or contradict something than it is to simply create the universe and not let anybody else do anything with it? I don't think the "continuity" is what makes SW work, at least not generally, as there are plenty of SW fans who have never picked up a SW novel or played a SW video game, if that's what you mean. The EU certainly makes several fans' SW passion thrive and grow, and that's great, but I don't think it is anywhere near as important as the films themselves.


How has it gone back into film making? I haven't seen a new SW film since ROTS not counting a theatrical release of TV show pilot episodes. Yes, I went and saw it. I even thought it was cool but I cannot deny I payed for something that's on air every week. TV is not film making.
Well, it seems to me that the money he made from making the films was put right back into the financial backing of the next film, be it Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Red Tails, The Clone Wars, or other Lucasfilm or ILM projects. The process of making The Clone Wars is very similar to the process of making a SW film; the process of making any show is pretty similar to the making of films. The same elements that go into making a movie go into making a TV show. In the case of The Clone Wars, especially, it's just a matter of distribution and volume, really, more than anything else.


My first exposure was the original movies. I saw ROTJ in theatres but only saw the others on VHS. I even enjoyed the ewok movies as a kid. I said before that I enjoy the books moreso than the films. I have a great and creative imagination. I visualize the duals and Artoo's beeps. I cast the characters with existing actors to form an image and get the voices in my head. There is so much more I can visualize in my mind than they can do with film or even CGI for that matter. In fact, some visual media actually puts me off because it doesn't meet the expectations in my mind based on what I have read. So YES, I can get them in a book. Just because something came first doesn't mean I cannot improve upon it. And hey, I didn't need to change anything about it. I enjoy films almost as much as books. I barely watch TV as I got to red box daily or buy movies weekly. I'd read more but books can be pricey and as with SW we only get so many a year and I usually burn through one in a weekend. I already stated they can't make the movies to long because of the costs and such. I understand. I'm merely stating that you get a lot more story and characterization out of the books. The movies wouldn't be anything without characters and story yet the novels succeed without the visualization. They may not be as popular but then again in this generation more kids play with video games than toys (where they use creativity and imagination) or watch TV rather than read (same, same). To me it's a step back rather than progress. I could bring any number of other topics into this but we'd be getting way side tracked from the discussion. I think it creates dependancy and reduces creativity.
If you don't want to get into this area too much, then I'll just say as a film fan and filmmaker I disagree here but I see your points.


I think CW is a fine show but it is to sell toys as was Ewoks and other properties like G.I.Joe and Spider-Man. I'm fine with putting money down for more SW and that money being used to support all types of merchandise and media. My problem is with them telling me all my investments don't matter anymore. I don't watch it every week but if I'm home and it's on I will watch it over most anything else that's on. As I said, I don't really care for much TV but I always have one on cause I can't stand it being too quiet. So, since you lost the bet how much are you gonna pay me? :D
Well, I was gonna pay you in Lucasfilm stock, but it looks like you don't want it. :p :D I still don't buy the argument that it's money- or greed-driven and have explained this already. Since you're a casual viewer and I'm more into the show, maybe I've gotten more out of watching it than you have or have seen better episodes. I don't know. To me, the series is very similar to the film series, and I don't agree that it's only made to sell toys.


Hasbro has expressed concern for the line over all in our QAs. They are taking chances and making big steps to get the collectors back. Kids aren't necessarily going to give a crap about CW 30 years from now like we do about SW. They might hold dear to something else like others did then instead of SW. I can't speak for everyone but my kids don't soley collect SW. They want and buy things from every different toyline. Not all the money I spend on toys for them goes to Hasbro let alone one collection. The loyalty and strength is from those of us who have been supporting SW for decades. I know, I know. It's imperical data that I can't back up cause we must cling to Hasbros word even though they don't share sales data or production numbers. I remember them saying they knew it was kids back in the AOTC days because of a surge in role play sales and adults wouldn't be buying them as much as kids. I know a lot of adults, SW fans or not, that have bought several because they think they are cool (at least until the FX ones were released). I think Hasbro was way off the mark. I wonder how much the role play toys dropped when MR released the Force Fx blades. It's things like this that make me wish the line would fold just to prove a point. That and it's becomming too hard to go to a store to buy a $8 toy because of late, limited production runs and poor distribution. I can't afford to pay twice that or more from etailers iether. Besides all that, if they lose the collector line chances are someone is losing a job from the loss of sales. I bet they care.

Well, of course they want the collectors to keep buying since they like to have us around supporting their products, but unfortunately we're not their bread and butter. At a Target I visited recently, all the Clone Wars figures were the new ones with the Nahdar Vebb stickers, meaning every single CW figure they had gotten in before the past few weeks had sold through. Meanwhile, there were several Legacy figures from the ROTJ wave that had been there since Christmas. I'm sure if the collectors all walked away the line would be hurt, but Hasbro could probably go on making Clone Wars and Legends figures and be just fine. What sells through better - old, repacked Darth Vader figures, or Pons Limbic? It's always the former.


As long as the show gets viewers and generates merchandise sales it will go on. Imagine the CW lasting 8 seasons? How would this effect the movies. Does this mean Lucas will have an excuse to do a new movie? ROTS 2.0? Really. There is a point of getting rediculous and as long as the money keeps comming in they aren't just gonna say,"enough is enough. Despite the millions we are making we have to end it or Anakin will never become Vader." It is more likely they might start a new season down the road that takes place after the events of ROTS but given previous statements by Hasbro they likely wouldn't do a kids show about a bad guy. I know there are those who hate the EU stuff so I empathize that some stuff is better left alone. The difference is when you don't have to watch or read anything but the movies it's fine. But I am into the expanded stuff and when it's over written it messes with that. Basically my EU doesn't bleed into your cannon but your cannon does affect my EU. Just wait until Lucas decides he needs to completely remake the OT to explaine the PT and CW. Then what happens after that? Remake the PT and CW? It's a never ending cycle of obsessive compulsiveness.
I believe the series will continue for a while, but not forever. Filoni has stated that they have an ending in mind, at least for Ahsoka. Again, it's not purely driven by money. If it was, then wouldn't we have Episodes VII, VIII, and IX now? People have asked for them, and you know they would be huge successes. But every time he gets asked, Lucas tells them the story is already over, aside from the novels and comics. Anakin's dead and they all lived happily ever after. He's not interested in making more, even though it would likely be far more bankable than the TV shows. After The Clone Wars is done, the TV focus will shift to the post-ROTS live-action show and any other projects. So yes, an all-encompassing Clone Wars timeline will eventually be created. Things will be shifted around, but they'll make it all fit. I guarantee you this. They've never said they're ignoring the microseries, and I don't see how anything we've seen in this show contradicts what we saw in the old show (aside maybe from which starfighter Anakin flies when, but that's beyond nitpicking).


The serials are not the CW. That's not even the right era. From what I remember there was supposed to be a trilogy after ROTJ. I never even heard of the preqel to the prequels before someone mentioned it earlier. It wouldn't even make sense with the numericle numberings of the movies. Oh wait! That's right. We are gonna end up making CW episode 4, 5, and 6 and remake ANH, ESB, and ROTJ.

I wasn't referring to serial films, I was referring to the notion of continuing stories week after week, which is what The Clone Wars is, the "essence" of serials. Nobody's remaking anything, so don't be so paranoid.


Thanks. That was my whole point. He lets people do things with it. He has employees who keep track of all the EU stuff that he approves. These people took great pains to communicate and not step on each others toes, to cohesively make Dark Horse, the original CW cartoon, Novels all fit within Lucas's timeframe of the films and stories. He decides this and that and approves and changes things. What is the point of a specific timeline or letting people do these things if they are not cannon? Why waste money on paying for those jobs, or time if it's for nothing. They had SW Tales and Visions that are specifically non-cannon. Why not just say all EU is non cannon? Why not say the CW are non-cannon?
If you look at the pre-2005 Clone Wars stories, there are issues all over the place. The most obvious is the two completely different lead-ins to ROTS that took place in Chapter 25 of the microseries and the novel Labyrinth of Evil. Anakin and Obi-Wan are doing completely different things on different worlds in these sources, and the battle of Coruscant and who does what in it are very different between the two sources, which take place at exactly the same time. In the microseries, Durge died pretty definitively; he was a pile of goo, and don't you think people would have watched over it to make sure he didn't regenerate? Yet in the comics, he lived until near the end of the war, when Anakin jettisoned him into a star. There should have been enough lead time on these projects to correct it if they wanted to, but they didn't. Nevertheless, the Lucasfilm people have made everything fit by fudging things, saying for instance that the events in microseries and Labyrinth of Evil were intertwined and that Anakin and Obi-Wan went from the novel to the microseries (or the other way around) even though that seemed like an impossibility. Long story short, I have no doubt they'll be able to fit everything into a single timeline, given that they've already had to do it before.


Again, what's the point of specific time lines and he has people who do keep him up to date. He lets others play with his ball. He approves all material. As JT said. You can't simply ignore it. You can't unwatch it or unread it. It bleeds over into all that has come before but if the show only lasted a few years and focused more on other characters or events going on tandemly then it wouldn't. Since you seem so fond of wich came first should be the be all end all, then why can't the existing EU be cannon and the CW a in fiction, fiction?

I never said that the first source should be the best one; that's seemingly more like your own position and the position of others here who dislike The Clone Wars series for "stepping on" the comics and novels. I think it varies from case to case but the continuity hierarchy they've already established works in my mind for the most part.


So what's the debate? You already admitted you know full well he approves and vetos things and it doesn't bother you cause you ignore what you don't care about. That if it doesn't affect you, you don't care but to those of us that it does affect deal with it? I wonder what tune you'd be singing if the shoe was on the other foot. What if you bought a car from and two years later the car was recalled for a defective break peddle? Say they wouldn't pay for the break peddle. You had to. Would you be upset? Or lets go to the extreme. Say the recall was issued after a loved one died because of that defective break peddle? Now no ones life has been claimed thus far thankfully but I think the first analogy applies. I have spent a lot of time and money on SW. It's frustrating. I do not buy every little thing. I buy what I like. My argument is merely on principle but that's not something everyone has these days. I could care less about cantina figures but I don't say they are a waste to make, cause I know others do care about them. Unlike some bashing I see of EU from those who want cantina figures or skiff guards. In the end they both aren't the bread and butter for the franchise but there seem to be equal numbers of folks who love them.
The car analogy goes a little too far and doesn't make a whole lot of sense, so I won't respond to it. My "don't worry about what you don't like" position allows me to focus on what I enjoy in SW. For me, I watch the films and TV shows; if there's a continuity discrepancy with the books and comics, then I go with what's in the films and TV shows. What I'm asking is, if you prefer the books and comics, and a continuity discrepancy comes up with the films and TV shows, then why not just go with what's in the books and comics? You said you just buy what you like, which is similar.

I already explained that I guess I don't know what it's like to be in your shoes since I haven't and I know (to a certain extent) that I never will be. But my previous paragraph sums up my thoughts pretty well, I think. As to the principle side of things, again, I believe it's primarily Lucas' universe and that he should be able to do what he wants with it. You know there's no way in hell he can keep up with everything in the EU, and that includes when the EU is produced as well as after it. The employees that do keep up with everything apparently inform him (Dave Filoni has pointed out many EU things to him that he's changing) but not everything in the EU fits into Lucas' version and vision of SW. As has been pointed out, that's been true ever since the beginning, with ESB replacing Splinter of the Mind's Eye, so I guess I just don't know why people are only now really worrying about it.

RENDAR LIVES
03-06-2010, 12:55 AM
I'm glad to know you don't harbor ill will toward Lucas (as a lot of people seem to these days). I think the comparison with other franchises is valid, but what I meant to say was, isn't it better for someone to allow others to create more stories in their universe and occasionally change or contradict something than it is to simply create the universe and not let anybody else do anything with it? I don't think the "continuity" is what makes SW work, at least not generally, as there are plenty of SW fans who have never picked up a SW novel or played a SW video game, if that's what you mean. The EU certainly makes several fans' SW passion thrive and grow, and that's great, but I don't think it is anywhere near as important as the films themselves.


Well, it seems to me that the money he made from making the films was put right back into the financial backing of the next film, be it Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Red Tails, The Clone Wars, or other Lucasfilm or ILM projects. The process of making The Clone Wars is very similar to the process of making a SW film; the process of making any show is pretty similar to the making of films. The same elements that go into making a movie go into making a TV show. In the case of The Clone Wars, especially, it's just a matter of distribution and volume, really, more than anything else.


If you don't want to get into this area too much, then I'll just say as a film fan and filmmaker I disagree here but I see your points.


Well, I was gonna pay you in Lucasfilm stock, but it looks like you don't want it. :p :D I still don't buy the argument that it's money- or greed-driven and have explained this already. Since you're a casual viewer and I'm more into the show, maybe I've gotten more out of watching it than you have or have seen better episodes. I don't know. To me, the series is very similar to the film series, and I don't agree that it's only made to sell toys.


Well, of course they want the collectors to keep buying since they like to have us around supporting their products, but unfortunately we're not their bread and butter. At a Target I visited recently, all the Clone Wars figures were the new ones with the Nahdar Vebb stickers, meaning every single CW figure they had gotten in before the past few weeks had sold through. Meanwhile, there were several Legacy figures from the ROTJ wave that had been there since Christmas. I'm sure if the collectors all walked away the line would be hurt, but Hasbro could probably go on making Clone Wars and Legends figures and be just fine. What sells through better - old, repacked Darth Vader figures, or Pons Limbic? It's always the former.


I believe the series will continue for a while, but not forever. Filoni has stated that they have an ending in mind, at least for Ahsoka. Again, it's not purely driven by money. If it was, then wouldn't we have Episodes VII, VIII, and IX now? People have asked for them, and you know they would be huge successes. But every time he gets asked, Lucas tells them the story is already over, aside from the novels and comics. Anakin's dead and they all lived happily ever after. He's not interested in making more, even though it would likely be far more bankable than the TV shows. After The Clone Wars is done, the TV focus will shift to the post-ROTS live-action show and any other projects. So yes, an all-encompassing Clone Wars timeline will eventually be created. Things will be shifted around, but they'll make it all fit. I guarantee you this. They've never said they're ignoring the microseries, and I don't see how anything we've seen in this show contradicts what we saw in the old show (aside maybe from which starfighter Anakin flies when, but that's beyond nitpicking).


I wasn't referring to serial films, I was referring to the notion of continuing stories week after week, which is what The Clone Wars is, the "essence" of serials. Nobody's remaking anything, so don't be so paranoid.


If you look at the pre-2005 Clone Wars stories, there are issues all over the place. The most obvious is the two completely different lead-ins to ROTS that took place in Chapter 25 of the microseries and the novel Labyrinth of Evil. Anakin and Obi-Wan are doing completely different things on different worlds in these sources, and the battle of Coruscant and who does what in it are very different between the two sources, which take place at exactly the same time. In the microseries, Durge died pretty definitively; he was a pile of goo, and don't you think people would have watched over it to make sure he didn't regenerate? Yet in the comics, he lived until near the end of the war, when Anakin jettisoned him into a star. There should have been enough lead time on these projects to correct it if they wanted to, but they didn't. Nevertheless, the Lucasfilm people have made everything fit by fudging things, saying for instance that the events in microseries and Labyrinth of Evil were intertwined and that Anakin and Obi-Wan went from the novel to the microseries (or the other way around) even though that seemed like an impossibility. Long story short, I have no doubt they'll be able to fit everything into a single timeline, given that they've already had to do it before.


I never said that the first source should be the best one; that's seemingly more like your own position and the position of others here who dislike The Clone Wars series for "stepping on" the comics and novels. I think it varies from case to case but the continuity hierarchy they've already established works in my mind for the most part.


The car analogy goes a little too far and doesn't make a whole lot of sense, so I won't respond to it. My "don't worry about what you don't like" position allows me to focus on what I enjoy in SW. For me, I watch the films and TV shows; if there's a continuity discrepancy with the books and comics, then I go with what's in the films and TV shows. What I'm asking is, if you prefer the books and comics, and a continuity discrepancy comes up with the films and TV shows, then why not just go with what's in the books and comics? You said you just buy what you like, which is similar.

I already explained that I guess I don't know what it's like to be in your shoes since I haven't and I know (to a certain extent) that I never will be. But my previous paragraph sums up my thoughts pretty well, I think. As to the principle side of things, again, I believe it's primarily Lucas' universe and that he should be able to do what he wants with it. You know there's no way in hell he can keep up with everything in the EU, and that includes when the EU is produced as well as after it. The employees that do keep up with everything apparently inform him (Dave Filoni has pointed out many EU things to him that he's changing) but not everything in the EU fits into Lucas' version and vision of SW. As has been pointed out, that's been true ever since the beginning, with ESB replacing Splinter of the Mind's Eye, so I guess I just don't know why people are only now really worrying about it.

I disagree with the comparison based on the "why give permission and say it's in the timeline if you are gonna change it". It's not labeled like Tales, Infinities, Visions, etcetera. Tolkien and Rowling haven't let people play with their properties. I get it. I know I should be thankful for something rather than nothing at all. Still it sucks and I'm gonna vent and protest. Kill off Luke in a speeder accident. Make Han leave Leia for Kenth Hamner. Have c-3PO go nuts and become a mad scientist who teaches the one armed Wompa to be a Sith Lord and get revenge on Luke. Whatever. Just if you are gonna do it then stick with it y'know what I mean? I loved Anakin Solo but as much as I miss him, I don't wanna see him resurected from the dead.

I am not an expert on film making but from all the behind the scenes features I have seen for everything from Stargate to Star Wars to Toy Story and whatever else, it seems so very different to me. There is a lot of reasons but I don't feel the need to point them out as I'm sure you are well aware of the differences. It's just my opinion that the cartoon isn't quite as magical as the films to me. A good show to be sure, but I don't see it as quite as big of an undertaking. If you compared the cost of 4 episodes compared to 1 movie I bet the movie is more expensive. But it's a weekly multi-season show so of course it's constantly being worked on and people have their salaries.

Yeah. I get enough politics on a daily basis than I care to. Everyone has their preferences. I just think it's neat to remember the things I did with old boxes and stuff compared to having the Kenner Batcave. Note that I'm not trying to bash playsets iether as I'd love some for Star Wars, just saying creative play or imagination isn't what it used to be. It helps build logic and problem solving. New ideas verses rehashing old ones. That's what I like about the newer stuff. It moves forward rather than retelling the same old stuff.

Well everything is worth something to someone. I'd still take it to sell it back to you later at a price. :twisted: Star Wars has a lot of pull on it's own but being catered to a younger audience I could still see it being like every other kids show with a toyline. Once interest is lost in the toys the show goes away or vise versa. Only time will tell. I do hope I am wrong though.

Around here it looks like the Nahdar vebb sticker ones are all selling. Seems like people want the mail away figure like I do. Otherwise there are plenty olde figures like Leutenant Whatshisname, Cad Bane and Kit Fisto just warming pegs. There are TLC ones doing the same as well. It's apparent regardless of the line that certain figures sell better than others. As far as Legends goes over here in the mid-west, all the local walmarts had legends skus and were not ordering more of TLC or CW. After talking to every manager at each location things have gotten better. They even write in pen above the sku's "black","red","gold" or "orange". It's gotten waaay better. I can see that the Legends line though is the only one not moving. I personally think it was cholking out TLC and now with TVC I think it will choke out CW since it shares the package wich I hope is not the case because there are select figures I like in that particular style.

I haven't heard anything about the live action show in a long time. Since before the CW movie in fact. I am looking forward to it though. Makes one wonder why they don't run both shows at once. It's not like they take place at the same time and they wouldn't air the live action show on Cartoon Network would they? I could care less about the starfighter. That would be knit-picking. As for the rest, it does change the history and events. It squeezes it all into an unreasonably small amount of time and if they expand that time frame it effects the stuff that follows like ROTS, the OT and the stuff in between them.

We all know how Lucas likes to tinker and isn't the topic how the CW changes the timeline? I wouldn't be surprised to see OT 2.0 eventually. I don't think paranoia and being proactive are the same thing. My fears are not unfounded.

Here you are incorrect my friend. Obi-Wan and Anakin were on Caro Nemodia and the last page shows them showing up at Coruscant right where the film begins. The CW series final episode had Mace and Yoda fighting off the attack from Coruscants surface while Shaak Ti tried to protect Palpatine from Grievous. They were in fact so on top of things that Shaak Ti was originally supposed to be captured by Grievous too as confirmed in the special features of ROTS. The Author of ROTS also stated he had to rewrite her out of the Invisible Hand scene because Lucas later wanted her death to be in the temple and later didn't want it at all in the film but to meet deadlines it was left in the book. The scene of Anakin cutting her down in the temple was also ultimately left out of the movie. So Lucas is at fault again and that is one of the many things I dismissed because it simply could not be helped. I'd be surprised if she really died in TFU. Also if you watch the mini episode where Durge explodes you later see his pieces crawling around on the floor to re-coonect together while ominous music plays. Clearly showing that was not his difinitive death. Wich is why the writers of the comics felt the only way you to kill off this T100 type unstoppable character was to jettison him into a star.

I'm sorry for misunderstanding you then. As I said, there are ways to be creative and new without trampling the other material. I'm merely saying all of it should fit together and co-exist while your stance still seems to be since it doesn't affect you it doesn't bother you. The questions about a 6" toyline or remaking the OT or analogies of other authers have gone unanswered by you. You seem to just dismiss them for "what is" rather than answering the hypothetical "what ifs". How would you feel if something you cared about or if something that affected you (wich is where the car part comes in), something that you invested time and money in, turned out to be not what was sold to you? Wouldn't that be upsetting? No refunds, returns, exchanges, or apologies. Sometimes a little empathy from Hasbro or Lucasfilm would go a long way but a lot of times it seems like they just say "deal with it". It's sort of like the difference between asking someone and telling someone to do something. You could be saying one thing but there are different ways to say it. Showing curtesy and respect often meets a much warmer response.

If it doesn't meet his vision then he shouldn't have approved it in the first place. It would be like going back and redoing the OT. He did his "difinitive visions" of them with the extended editions wich was mostly just a few more shots here and there atop cleaning up existing images and swapping things out with CGI. At what point will Lucas just be happy and move on to some other Star Wars projects? He has people keep him apraised and he does approve. He does have the final say. So why approve or veto just to redo it later on? We can give him all the credit we want for the good he has done but then he should also be held accountable for the bad too. You can't have one without the other. You seem to look at George through rose colored glasses. People have been worrying about it. Back in the 90's. I'm sure they did in the 80's but there was no internet for all the nerds to ***** and complaine. This is just the most recent issue.

Anyways, bygones will be bygones. Everyone has a differing opinion of what should and shouldn't be. I'm hoping this was more to gain insight from others perspectives rather than to just rush to the defense of Lucas and his empire. You seem to be pretty defensive of an issue that apparently makes little to no difference to you. It does matter to me. I could see where you might want the show to last as long as possible because you enjoy it and don't wanna see it come to an end wich is where I would think you'd be able to empathize with those of us who do not want to see what we enjoy and invest in changed. Hopefully for everyone involved it does all work out smoothly, but I for one share the worries of others that it might just be another mess in a long line of them.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
03-07-2010, 02:11 PM
Here you are incorrect my friend. Obi-Wan and Anakin were on Caro Nemodia and the last page shows them showing up at Coruscant right where the film begins. The CW series final episode had Mace and Yoda fighting off the attack from Coruscants surface while Shaak Ti tried to protect Palpatine from Grievous. They were in fact so on top of things that Shaak Ti was originally supposed to be captured by Grievous too as confirmed in the special features of ROTS. The Author of ROTS also stated he had to rewrite her out of the Invisible Hand scene because Lucas later wanted her death to be in the temple and later didn't want it at all in the film but to meet deadlines it was left in the book. The scene of Anakin cutting her down in the temple was also ultimately left out of the movie. So Lucas is at fault again and that is one of the many things I dismissed because it simply could not be helped. I'd be surprised if she really died in TFU. Also if you watch the mini episode where Durge explodes you later see his pieces crawling around on the floor to re-coonect together while ominous music plays. Clearly showing that was not his difinitive death. Wich is why the writers of the comics felt the only way you to kill off this T100 type unstoppable character was to jettison him into a star.
This page (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_of_Coruscant_%28Clone_Wars%29) gives a fairly good account of the discrepancies between the microseries and novel version of the Coruscant battle. The main thing in my mind is what Anakin and Obi-Wan were doing right before going to the battle. In the novel, they go directly from Tythe to Coruscant, and I believe this was after a run-in with Dooku (I remember him blocking one of their exits). In the microseries, they go directly from Nelvaan to Coruscant. Both stories were intertwined with the actual Coruscant battle, as they obviously arrived after the fighting had begun (as seen in ROTS). If you go off of these stories, there's no way they can both be canon. However, Leland Chee changed the timeline, stating that Anakin and Obi-Wan went from Tythe to Nelvaan to Coruscant (even though that doesn't really work based on the source material). I used this as an example of two seemingly contradictory stories produced at the same time to show two things - that perhaps they weren't really policing this as tightly as you believe and that they have amended the timeline before to fit it all in, which you are assuming they will not do with the new series.


I'm sorry for misunderstanding you then. As I said, there are ways to be creative and new without trampling the other material. I'm merely saying all of it should fit together and co-exist while your stance still seems to be since it doesn't affect you it doesn't bother you. The questions about a 6" toyline or remaking the OT or analogies of other authers have gone unanswered by you. You seem to just dismiss them for "what is" rather than answering the hypothetical "what ifs". How would you feel if something you cared about or if something that affected you (wich is where the car part comes in), something that you invested time and money in, turned out to be not what was sold to you? Wouldn't that be upsetting? No refunds, returns, exchanges, or apologies. Sometimes a little empathy from Hasbro or Lucasfilm would go a long way but a lot of times it seems like they just say "deal with it". It's sort of like the difference between asking someone and telling someone to do something. You could be saying one thing but there are different ways to say it. Showing curtesy and respect often meets a much warmer response.
Well, let me state my stance, then: They're going to fit it all together. If they don't, then just go with the version of the story that you like best, and ignore the rest.

In my mind, Luke, Han, and Leia all lived happily ever after following ROTJ and the Sith never returned, so I don't read those books. In your mind, the old Clone Wars material is better than the new Clone Wars material and you don't think a retcon is coming despite several instances of them stating it is, so just go with that stuff. In bigbarada's mind, the 1980s EU is the best, so he can ignore the new stuff. It's not like we're discussing real-world history here; there's room for people to like what they like, and there's a hell of a lot to like.

I already addressed the 6" figure line thing, and you can go back and read that post again, but I'll reiterate. If they were to switch to a 6" format tomorrow, then I'd have two options: either keep buying them and enjoy them for what they are, even if they don't fit perfectly with what I already own, or I could just stop and be happy with what I already have and love. In this instance, I'd be more inclined to go with the latter, but both are valid options. I suppose I would be slightly saddened that something I love is coming to an end, but it's not like Hasbro or Lucasfilm would be coming into my house, calling me an idiot, and taking all my stuff away. I'd still have it.

For "remaking" the OT, as I've said before, I know that's not going to happen, so perhaps I feel a bit more safe in that regard than you feel with your EU material. But, again, I think the answer is the same as the figure line issue. Either take it and enjoy it for what it is, or disregard it and stay with the originals. This has precedence, though, as there are three main versions of each OT movie, and fans can pick and choose which ones they watch and ignore the others. I like the changes for the most part, so I'm not used to getting rabidly angry about them like a lot of people do.


If it doesn't meet his vision then he shouldn't have approved it in the first place. It would be like going back and redoing the OT. He did his "difinitive visions" of them with the extended editions wich was mostly just a few more shots here and there atop cleaning up existing images and swapping things out with CGI. At what point will Lucas just be happy and move on to some other Star Wars projects? He has people keep him apraised and he does approve. He does have the final say. So why approve or veto just to redo it later on? We can give him all the credit we want for the good he has done but then he should also be held accountable for the bad too. You can't have one without the other. You seem to look at George through rose colored glasses. People have been worrying about it. Back in the 90's. I'm sure they did in the 80's but there was no internet for all the nerds to ***** and complaine. This is just the most recent issue.
If I'm being too optimistic, then you're being too pessimistic. I don't think either is necessarily true; we just have differing opinions on this.

I do think, though, that they should have the EU on a much tighter leash. They produce so, so much of it that George can't keep up with it all, and neither can most fans, I bet. George has maintained that his world and the world of the EU are two separate entities. Lucasfilm has established continuity hierarchies to deal with the many, many discrepancies. Things like Visions and Tales were created so that people could have fun in the universe without taking everything so seriously. Those comics take place outside of the films and EU, and the EU takes place outside the films.

I feel like this discussion is going in circles.


Anyways, bygones will be bygones. Everyone has a differing opinion of what should and shouldn't be. I'm hoping this was more to gain insight from others perspectives rather than to just rush to the defense of Lucas and his empire. You seem to be pretty defensive of an issue that apparently makes little to no difference to you. It does matter to me. I could see where you might want the show to last as long as possible because you enjoy it and don't wanna see it come to an end wich is where I would think you'd be able to empathize with those of us who do not want to see what we enjoy and invest in changed. Hopefully for everyone involved it does all work out smoothly, but I for one share the worries of others that it might just be another mess in a long line of them.
Well, it matters to me as well, since I hate to see people get so fed up with these sorts of things and give up altogether, when they've been happening since day one. I can't stand when it's inferred that people who like George Lucas are just mindless fanboys. This sort of thing happens in politics as well; I've made up my mind based on my own preferences and interpretations of the facts, and it's rude to assume otherwise. You're free to live your life how you want and read or watch what you want; I'm just giving my own opinion on all of this.

El Chuxter
03-07-2010, 02:29 PM
I thought the official stance was that Anakin's adventure on Nelvaan took place several weeks or even months prior to the invasion of Coruscant...?

Tycho
03-07-2010, 04:34 PM
I think the Nelvaan episode happened just a single light-speed trip before the Battle of Coruscant.

In terms of motion picture EU continuity:

1) AOTC movie
2) Gennedy Tartovsky CW Sn 1
3) Gennedy Tartovsky CW Sn 2 (Grievous vs Ki-Adi Mundi part / Anakin knighted)
4) Clone Wars Animated Series
5) Ahsoka Tano vanishes (she's killed or otherwise removed from the storyline)
6) Gennedy Tartovsky CW Sn 2 (Nelvaan mission)
7) ROTS movie

RENDAR LIVES
03-07-2010, 08:52 PM
This page (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_of_Coruscant_%28Clone_Wars%29) gives a fairly good account of the discrepancies between the microseries and novel version of the Coruscant battle. The main thing in my mind is what Anakin and Obi-Wan were doing right before going to the battle. In the novel, they go directly from Tythe to Coruscant, and I believe this was after a run-in with Dooku (I remember him blocking one of their exits). In the microseries, they go directly from Nelvaan to Coruscant. Both stories were intertwined with the actual Coruscant battle, as they obviously arrived after the fighting had begun (as seen in ROTS). If you go off of these stories, there's no way they can both be canon. However, Leland Chee changed the timeline, stating that Anakin and Obi-Wan went from Tythe to Nelvaan to Coruscant (even though that doesn't really work based on the source material). I used this as an example of two seemingly contradictory stories produced at the same time to show two things - that perhaps they weren't really policing this as tightly as you believe and that they have amended the timeline before to fit it all in, which you are assuming they will not do with the new series.


Well, let me state my stance, then: They're going to fit it all together. If they don't, then just go with the version of the story that you like best, and ignore the rest.

In my mind, Luke, Han, and Leia all lived happily ever after following ROTJ and the Sith never returned, so I don't read those books. In your mind, the old Clone Wars material is better than the new Clone Wars material and you don't think a retcon is coming despite several instances of them stating it is, so just go with that stuff. In bigbarada's mind, the 1980s EU is the best, so he can ignore the new stuff. It's not like we're discussing real-world history here; there's room for people to like what they like, and there's a hell of a lot to like.

I already addressed the 6" figure line thing, and you can go back and read that post again, but I'll reiterate. If they were to switch to a 6" format tomorrow, then I'd have two options: either keep buying them and enjoy them for what they are, even if they don't fit perfectly with what I already own, or I could just stop and be happy with what I already have and love. In this instance, I'd be more inclined to go with the latter, but both are valid options. I suppose I would be slightly saddened that something I love is coming to an end, but it's not like Hasbro or Lucasfilm would be coming into my house, calling me an idiot, and taking all my stuff away. I'd still have it.

For "remaking" the OT, as I've said before, I know that's not going to happen, so perhaps I feel a bit more safe in that regard than you feel with your EU material. But, again, I think the answer is the same as the figure line issue. Either take it and enjoy it for what it is, or disregard it and stay with the originals. This has precedence, though, as there are three main versions of each OT movie, and fans can pick and choose which ones they watch and ignore the others. I like the changes for the most part, so I'm not used to getting rabidly angry about them like a lot of people do.


If I'm being too optimistic, then you're being too pessimistic. I don't think either is necessarily true; we just have differing opinions on this.

I do think, though, that they should have the EU on a much tighter leash. They produce so, so much of it that George can't keep up with it all, and neither can most fans, I bet. George has maintained that his world and the world of the EU are two separate entities. Lucasfilm has established continuity hierarchies to deal with the many, many discrepancies. Things like Visions and Tales were created so that people could have fun in the universe without taking everything so seriously. Those comics take place outside of the films and EU, and the EU takes place outside the films.

I feel like this discussion is going in circles.


Well, it matters to me as well, since I hate to see people get so fed up with these sorts of things and give up altogether, when they've been happening since day one. I can't stand when it's inferred that people who like George Lucas are just mindless fanboys. This sort of thing happens in politics as well; I've made up my mind based on my own preferences and interpretations of the facts, and it's rude to assume otherwise. You're free to live your life how you want and read or watch what you want; I'm just giving my own opinion on all of this.


I found Wookieepedia to have plenty of errors itself on several topics. There are a number of smaller Clone Wars mini episodes that never explaine much of anything. There isn't much of a timeline and there are obviously huge gaps inbetween the episodes. I'm not buying it. There ya go. You win. I'm ignoring something.

The conversation is going in circles. It doesn't effect you, yet you seem so intent on telling me what I should think. It's not that I like the older material better. In fact there is plenty I do like about the new cartoon and plenty I didnt like about the old material. It's about the principle. You are so defensive on this topic for someone who thinks that others should just like what they like and ignore what they dont. So you are arguing just for the sake of argument? Because you feel everyone is entitled to their own opinion yet it upsets you that mine differs from yours? Why can't I say what I don't like and how I think it's messed up? Let me worry and complain. After all, it doesn't affect you anyways.

Half the time all I see on the boards is people complaining about how the toys aren't 100% accurate or any number of other things. It amazes me out of all the discussions and complaining that this is the one topic that seemed to get your goat. Very curious.

How much can you ask someone to turn a blind eye to? To me, ignorance is not bliss. Sorry. I've stated my thoughts on this and like it or not they will not change.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
03-08-2010, 01:32 AM
I found Wookieepedia to have plenty of errors itself on several topics. There are a number of smaller Clone Wars mini episodes that never explaine much of anything. There isn't much of a timeline and there are obviously huge gaps inbetween the episodes. I'm not buying it. There ya go. You win. I'm ignoring something.

The conversation is going in circles. It doesn't effect you, yet you seem so intent on telling me what I should think. It's not that I like the older material better. In fact there is plenty I do like about the new cartoon and plenty I didnt like about the old material. It's about the principle. You are so defensive on this topic for someone who thinks that others should just like what they like and ignore what they dont. So you are arguing just for the sake of argument? Because you feel everyone is entitled to their own opinion yet it upsets you that mine differs from yours? Why can't I say what I don't like and how I think it's messed up? Let me worry and complain. After all, it doesn't affect you anyways.

Half the time all I see on the boards is people complaining about how the toys aren't 100% accurate or any number of other things. It amazes me out of all the discussions and complaining that this is the one topic that seemed to get your goat. Very curious.

How much can you ask someone to turn a blind eye to? To me, ignorance is not bliss. Sorry. I've stated my thoughts on this and like it or not they will not change.
It's just an interesting conversation, so I wanted to participate. I've pretty much said all I want to on it, and you're clearly not having fun anymore, so I guess it's done. Again, do what you want. I'm just voicing my opinion and how I see this, and you're free to do whatever you want.


I thought the official stance was that Anakin's adventure on Nelvaan took place several weeks or even months prior to the invasion of Coruscant...?
I don't think so, and it sure doesn't seem that way as seen in the cartoon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-KdgbD2JaA), which cuts between the events, thus inferring that they are simultaneous. In part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6IvGSMH2uY) of the video, at 4:18, you can see Anakin getting his new arm, with the Nelvaan in-betweener cast off to the side. So, this was always meant to take place right before the start of ROTS.