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Tycho
11-21-2010, 02:58 PM
This is for all you guys who:


hide their Star Wars collection so that others, especially the LADIES, will like you and want to couple-up with you
then, marry and become told what to do and get bored and frustrated with the responsibilities and restrictions of married life (and budget constraints)
then become "who you really were all along" and delve into your collecting, assembling a "man-cave" of some nature
wind up getting divorced, downsizing your collection, then trying to get everything back (or starting all over) again


Here's the link to the artcile, the text copied below: (http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/nov/17/four-in-10-say-marriage-is-becoming-obsolete/)


Is marriage becoming obsolete?

As families gather for Thanksgiving this year, nearly one in three American children is living with a parent who is divorced, separated or never-married. More people are accepting the view that wedding bells aren't needed to have a family.

A study by the Pew Research Center, in association with Time magazine, highlights rapidly changing notions of the American family. And the Census Bureau, too, is planning to incorporate broader definitions of family when measuring poverty, a shift caused partly by recent jumps in unmarried couples living together.

About 29 percent of children under 18 now live with a parent or parents who are unwed or no longer married, a fivefold increase from 1960, according to the Pew report being released Thursday. Broken down further, about 15 percent have parents who are divorced or separated and 14 percent who were never married. Within those two groups, a sizable chunk - 6 percent - have parents who are live-in couples who opted to raise kids together without getting married.

Indeed, about 39 percent of Americans said marriage was becoming obsolete. And that sentiment follows U.S. census data released in September that showed marriages hit an all-time low of 52 percent for adults 18 and over.

In 1978, just 28 percent believed marriage was becoming obsolete.

When asked what constitutes a family, the vast majority of Americans agree that a married couple, with or without children, fits that description. But four of five surveyed pointed also to an unmarried, opposite-sex couple with children or a single parent. Three of 5 people said a same-sex couple with children was a family.

"Marriage is still very important in this country, but it doesn't dominate family life like it used to," said Andrew Cherlin, a professor of sociology and public policy at Johns Hopkins University. "Now there are several ways to have a successful family life, and more people accept them."

The broadening views of family are expected to have an impact at Thanksgiving. About nine in 10 Americans say they will share a Thanksgiving meal next week with family, sitting at a table with 12 people on average. About one-fourth of respondents said there will be 20 or more family members.

"More Americans are living in these new families, so it seems safe to assume that there will be more of them around the Thanksgiving dinner table," said Paul Taylor, executive vice president of the Pew Research Center.

The changing views of family are being driven largely by young adults 18-29, who are more likely than older generations to have an unmarried or divorced parent or have friends who do. Young adults also tend to have more liberal attitudes when it comes to spousal roles and living together before marriage, the survey found.

But economic factors, too, are playing a role. The Census Bureau recently reported that opposite-sex unmarried couples living together jumped 13 percent this year to 7.5 million. It was a sharp one-year increase that analysts largely attributed to people unwilling to make long-term marriage commitments in the face of persistent unemployment.

Beginning next year, the Census Bureau will publish new, supplemental poverty figures that move away from the traditional concept of family as a husband and wife with two children. It will broaden the definition to include unmarried couples, such as same-sex partners, as well as foster children who are not related by blood or adoption.

Officials say such a move will reduce the number of families and children who are considered poor based on the new supplemental measure, which will be used as a guide for federal and state agencies to set anti-poverty policies. That's because two unmarried partners who live together with children and work are currently not counted by census as a single "family" with higher pooled incomes, but are officially defined as two separate units - one being a single parent and child, the other a single person - who aren't sharing household resources.

"People are rethinking what family means," Cherlin said. "Given the growth, I think we need to accept cohabitation relationships as a basis for some of the fringe benefits offered to families, such as health insurance."

Still, the study indicates that marriage isn't going to disappear anytime soon. Despite a growing view that marriage may not be necessary, 67 percent of Americans were upbeat about the future of marriage and family. That's higher than their optimism for the nation's educational system (50 percent), economy (46 percent) or its morals and ethics (41 percent).

And about half of all currently unmarried adults, 46 percent, say they want to get married. Among those unmarried who are living with a partner, the share rises to 64 percent.

Other findings:

-About 34 percent of Americans called the growing variety of family living arrangements good for society, while 32 percent said it didn't make a difference and 29 percent said it was troubling.

-About 44 percent of people say they have lived with a partner without being married; for 30-to-49-year-olds, that share rose to 57 percent. In most cases, those couples said they considered cohabitation as a step toward marriage.

-About 62 percent say that the best marriage is one where the husband and wife both work and both take care of the household and children. That's up from 48 percent who held that view in 1977.

The Pew study was based on interviews with 2,691 adults by cell phone or landline from Oct. 1-21. The survey has a total margin of error of plus or minus 2.6 percentage points, larger for subgroups. Pew also analyzed 2008 census data, and used surveys conducted by Time magazine to identify trends from earlier decades.

So in conclusion, this brings me back to the point I'm very sorry to make, but YOUR divorce is very predictable to me.

What motivated me in posting this? I'm still told I'm hurting myself by being "too much of a freak" with wanting to display my toy collection in every room of my home (so it can be appreciated with it being spread out, and not each display overwhelming the other ones, like the AT-AT on Hoth distracting from the AT-TE on Geonosis).

Some guys think they are "too cool for school," and hide their interest so they can pretend to be someone else so they can get some 'social-life action.' Well, you still can 'get some,' in spite of your collecting interest, but don't wreck your life (the life of your false-personality) by legally and financially tying yourself into an institution that could seriously devistate you.

Yup. FAKE PEOPLE here, go right ahead and continue "lurking" here, and hiding your toys in your closet or the man-cave while you ignore this warning, wreck your life when you say "I do," and wonder why you're so unhappy.

Get real. You're reading posts on a Star Wars collecting website. I'd assume that most of you here are reading this because you're also into the hobby - or you wonder if you'd be happier if you were.

Nevertheless, as the study that I linked to above demonstrates, people still are not using birth control, and winding up with 'family responsibilities' regardless of whether they marry or co-habitate or not.

I Tycho, continue to make a stand for Men's Rights, the Freedom for Our Own Lives, Liberty, and the Pursuit of SELF-CENTERED Happiness that can be THE benchmark achievement for a happy Star Wars fan!

Jedi_Master_Guyute
11-21-2010, 03:31 PM
I read the same article and I saw something you left out that said, "94% of the women interviewed say they dated a man who went under the net handle of 'Tycho'; these women then added, 'after dating Tycho, we're swearing off men, for good.'

:p:p:p

sith_killer_99
11-21-2010, 04:16 PM
It's all about life choices.

In my case the exact opposite has happened. My wife was fully aware of my SW obsession and collecting. Over the years I have lost interest in collecting the line from time to time. The new Vintage line has gotten my interest, though it has been years since I was really excited about collecting.

On the flip side, after a decade of marriage I can honestly say that life is better than ever before, each day is deeply fulfilling, more so than any "hobby" could ever be. My wife and I love each other for who we are, and always have.

Perhaps that is because we never hid who we really were. Neither of us were interested in finding a life mate when we started dating, we just wanted to have fun and be ourselves.

My children bring me endless joy.

If things were to change, if my wife were to ask for a divorce then I would never remarry. One shot deal, it's this or nothing.

Marriage is not rational, love can not be quantified. People can examine it, study it, try to explain it, but at the end of the day every marriage is different, some work out and others do not.

Marriage is not for everyone, I understand and respect that. All I ask is that others respect my life choice and not criticize me for the decision I have made to raise a more traditional family.:thumbsup:

TeeEye7
11-21-2010, 04:43 PM
What SK99 said! :thumbsup:

mtriv73
11-21-2010, 04:55 PM
Ditto T eye and SK99. Especially the kids part because now I have someone to share my toys with. The wife knew about the star wars toys from the night we started dating. I had them displayed all around my room. Of course that was 1999 and there were a lot fewer of them then. Nonetheless, I've always been true to who I am and she has been the same way. Maybe that's the secret to happiness.

sith_killer_99
11-21-2010, 05:00 PM
Ditto T eye and SK99. Especially the kids part because now I have someone to share my toys with. The wife knew about the star wars toys from the night we started dating. I had them displayed all around my room. Of course that was 1999 and there were a lot fewer of them then. Nonetheless, I've always been true to who I am and she has been the same way. Maybe that's the secret to happiness.

Okay, that's just creepy. I also had them displayed all around my room (barracks room) and my wife and I also started dating in 1999.:D

mtriv73
11-21-2010, 05:16 PM
I'm pretty sure we're different people.:D

sith_killer_99
11-21-2010, 05:18 PM
Or are we?

Hold on, I need to log out under my user ID and log in under my "other" ID. :laugh:

Beast
11-21-2010, 05:36 PM
I read the same article and I saw something you left out that said, "94% of the women interviewed say they dated a man who went under the net handle of 'Tycho'; these women then added, 'after dating Tycho, we're swearing off men, for good.'

:p:p:p
Can you blame them? ;)

Tycho
11-21-2010, 06:12 PM
They interviewed thousands of people, presumably at least half of them women.

It can't possibly be true that I dated 94% of them. I get a bad reputation much faster than that!

Meanwhile, I'm happy for those of you whose marriages are working. You are beating the odds.

Perhaps SSG's own forum members' data skews things though:

If someone else is divorced or unhappily married, their ex may have forced them out of the hobby, or discouraged them from overcoming their FEAR of ever getting started (fear of "what will someone else think?).

So why would they be any one of you guys who are posting here regularly?

If I was driven or prevented from collecting, I don't think I'd hang out here myself. I'd be too jealous of everyone else's toy-finds and their ability (and freedom) to appreciate what they want.

sith_killer_99
11-21-2010, 06:57 PM
Perhaps SSG's own forum members' data skews things though:

If someone else is divorced or unhappily married, their ex may have forced them out of the hobby, or discouraged them from overcoming their FEAR of ever getting started (fear of "what will someone else think?).

So why would they be any one of you guys who are posting here regularly?

If I was driven or prevented from collecting, I don't think I'd hang out here myself. I'd be too jealous of everyone else's toy-finds and their ability (and freedom) to appreciate what they want.

Perhaps that is why we have a "Long Gone Forum Members" thread. ;)

Tycho
11-21-2010, 07:58 PM
Perhaps that is why we have a "Long Gone Forum Members" thread. ;)

Nah. My posting here probably made them run for their lives.

Meanwhile, at Toys R Us each year, I've noticed "high-end" Star Wars toys dumped in the Toys-For-Tots donation boxes.

Jorg Sacul. Really?

Autographed Jeremy Bulloch Silver Boba Fett. Really?

Celebration 3 Exclusive "Talking" Vader. Yeah?

SideShowToys 12" Bib Fortuna. Am I kidding?

Honestly, I really think someone's ex got really mad at them. (Or it could have been an angry parent.) Else it was a quick-fix solution to making someone else happy (and not likely the original owner of the collectibles).

Garage sales and eBay take much longer to liquidate collections (as do classified ads) but they are handled with much more care and effort, obviously.

TeeEye7
11-21-2010, 08:33 PM
Meanwhile, I'm happy for those of you whose marriages are working. You are beating the odds.

If you notice those of us married folk quick to respond to this that their spouses either tolerate, embrace (as my wife did), or ignore (as it's not an issue in the marriage) our penchant for collecting SW.

What a sad relationship if a stumbling block such as desire to collect (anything) becomes such a major issue. I have sage advice for those who cannot tolerate someone's likes and desires contrary to their own:

"Move along, move along."

InsaneJediGirl
11-21-2010, 09:08 PM
While I'm 90% sure marriage isn't for me...there is no reason why those choosing to single should hate on those on who are married. So...I'm not sure the point of this post. I think if there is fighting about a toy/whatever collection, there are bigger problems in a relationship than a Darth Vader sitting on a shelf, not so much the institution of marriage itself.

Tycho
11-21-2010, 09:37 PM
there is no reason why those choosing to single should hate on those on who are married. So...I'm not sure the point of this post.

I am angry by friends of mine having to go through getting screwed in divorce, as well as seeing those more high-end Star Wars collectibles dumped in Toys For Tots each year at Christmas.

Those are only 2 of the reasons. I'm getting to at least another here. First you posted:


I think if there is fighting about a toy/whatever collection, there are bigger problems in a relationship than a Darth Vader sitting on a shelf,

Yes, but some are so often overlooked when one is entering the marriage:

first it's not just 'a Darth Vader sitting on a shelf.' There are now probably over 100 incarnations of Darth Vader alone, let alone what's involved and encouraging further Star Wars collecting by those who would enjoy it.

It's all-over-the-house-time for those of us who have "unleashed the full power of The Force." ;)

Next, it's the arm-decoration thing. Many of us kind of reap what we sew, but from the guy's perspective, the girl wants to show off her man (not man-child) and be envied by her friends. As I said, I might "find what I go looking for" personally, though I'm not looking to show "my supermodel" off to anyone. However, 'she' is used to a life of showing off, and a man-child doesn't fit in with this plan.

Shallow people deserve each other and the problems they create for themselves? There's a good argument to support that. Can they still complain about it? Sure. That's a great case for THIS thread :D

Meanwhile, are they really shallow? Personally I'm content to not even have a girlfriend, while I especially do not want a live-in (married to me or otherwise). [Is this a rant about being lonely and isolated because of my hobby? No. It can be at times, but this particular time I have someone in my life that's a would-be girlfriend or thinks she is. However, I do not want to make a committment to a relationship, figure out how to visit everyone (and their divorced families) during the holidays, and live alone to keep my peace - to collect or do whatever else I want. Lonliness will probably take its toll later, after I've engineered my isolation. In the meanwhile, the tolls are paid in time and mileage. :rolleyes: )

But, while I have collecting friends, and friends that have come into my life from many other extremely varied interests, I am a slave to my genetic instincts and pursue the supermodel. In turn, she has her choice of men from whom she can bring into her life, and she'll often choose the one she can control.

This has happened to so many people out there (and the situation can be reversed and victimize a woman, to be sure) but more men are screwed in divorce or bad marriages for their:

property
alimony
child support
and curtailment of their interests / hobbies

Since women gain a lot of the advantages in these areas, I think that the article I linked to might suggest that MEN should be careful about what they legally become linked to - and they might be - considering the figures presented by the news.

El Chuxter
11-21-2010, 09:50 PM
You're assuming higher-end collectibles being donated to kids is a result of a p***ed-off spouse. I've thought about donating stuff like Jorg Sacul, since he doesn't really fit in well with the newer figures. Sure, he might bring more on eBay, but, after the hassle and expense of auctioning him off, it might be easier to just dump him in a bin where some kid who doesn't know what he is will find him and play with him.

InsaneJediGirl
11-21-2010, 10:29 PM
Next, it's the arm-decoration thing. Many of us kind of reap what we sew, but from the guy's perspective, the girl wants to show off her man (not man-child) and be envied by her friends. As I said, I might "find what I go looking for" personally, though I'm not looking to show "my supermodel" off to anyone. However, 'she' is used to a life of showing off, and a man-child doesn't fit in with this plan.


Nice you pegged all women right there:rolleyes:

LTBasker
11-21-2010, 11:03 PM
I see marriage as pointless simply because divorce looks like such a ludicrously expensive and time consuming process, whereas if you simply live together then it's over when you say it's over. More or less. Obviously there are exceptions, but divorce commonly seems to only lead to further drama in the splitting up process. Obviously this is solely based on the negative ideal of a marriage not working out, but yeah.

Get married if you want though. I don't care what people do.

Blue2th
11-22-2010, 01:47 AM
I want a trophy wife. One that looks good displayed next to all my premium format figures. In 1/1 scale of course. The ultimate action figure.

Lord Malakite
11-22-2010, 01:59 AM
I've thought about donating stuff like Jorg Sacul, since he doesn't really fit in well with the newer figures. Sure, he might bring more on eBay, but, after the hassle and expense of auctioning him off, it might be easier to just dump him in a bin where some kid who doesn't know what he is will find him and play with him.
Or you could just donate him to me. I have no Jorg Saculs and will gladly take one for free.

TheCivilCollector
11-22-2010, 07:41 AM
It's interesting that for all the negatives I see on here regarding marriage (or just relationships), I don't seem to see anyone reinforcing the positives:

Companionship, love, intimacy, a life partner, financial stability of a dual-income household, children (possibly), even just another living, breathing entity in the house that isn't a pet. It's even nice if they don't share your own interests and you have to do something you don't necessarily want to do sometimes. I can't tell you how many things I've tried and enjoyed that I never would have tried were it not for a girlfriend.

Just felt the need to spin it.

Snowtrooper
11-22-2010, 01:18 PM
It's interesting that for all the negatives I see on here regarding marriage (or just relationships), I don't seem to see anyone reinforcing the positives:

Companionship, love, intimacy, a life partner, financial stability of a dual-income household, children (possibly), even just another living, breathing entity in the house that isn't a pet. It's even nice if they don't share your own interests and you have to do something you don't necessarily want to do sometimes. I can't tell you how many things I've tried and enjoyed that I never would have tried were it not for a girlfriend.

Just felt the need to spin it.

There are alot of positives from being married. From a SW collecting perspective, I wouldn't have near the size collection without my wife. The double income allows me to have more money to spend on my collection. I've also been very fortunate. When we got married, I wasn't collecting at all. She's been very tolerant as my collection has grown and has even helped add to it a time or two. She sometimes rolls her eyes when I'm hauling in bag after bag of SW stuff, but thats the only "resistance" I've ever encountered.

JEDIpartner
11-22-2010, 01:23 PM
All the positives people have presented? You don't need to be married to have that. You just need to be committed to each other.

sith_killer_99
11-22-2010, 01:39 PM
Joint checking! :thumbsup:

Tax deductions.

Living Wills.

ummm...

We don't have double income. Double income for married people is a myth anyway. By the time you pay baby sitting fees a large protion of that is gone.

How about, a parent at home to spend time with the kids and help them with their emotional and intellectual development. :thumbsup:

JEDIpartner
11-22-2010, 02:06 PM
You can have that last one without being married. ;)

I have joint checking with Lou and we aren't married. We don't have tax deductions, though. We have living wills 'cos he's got power of attorney. You really can't get me started on the details of that stuff 'cos it's really fit for the Rancor Pit... apparently.

Qui-Long Gone
11-22-2010, 03:25 PM
I like being married. Some days I hate it. Like anything that matters, it takes work and sacrifice. The highs are really high and the lows increase local alcohol sales.

After 10 years of marriage, I'm not surprised when other marriages fail...most people don't understand what "I do" means, I know I didn't. The most profound thing I heard this fall was that when young married couples say "I love you," what they really mean is that "I love the way you make me feel." Eventually marital love must go beyond self-feeling and consider the feelings of others.

I'm also less surprised when marriages work out. Those that make it understand (and appreciate or experience) the complexity of the above observation.

I would challenge the word "obsolete." VHS is obsolete. Steam engines are obsolete. Marching with single-shot muskets at another army is obsolete. I can't see any form of contractual agreements between two humans (calling it marriage, or common-law, or whatever "term" you want to use) as ever being obsolete.

I feel sad for those 40%. They have much to learn about the human experience or need help/love getting over the hurt of their previous failed relationships.

JEDIpartner
11-22-2010, 04:11 PM
I'm "married" in my relationship as far as I'm concerned. The government and the uber-religious who don't agree with me can just fark it. :love:

Beast
11-22-2010, 04:29 PM
I'm "married" in my relationship as far as I'm concerned. The government and the uber-religious who don't agree with me can just fark it. :love:
Word. As a wise comedian said, why shouldn't you have the right to be as miserable as everyone else. :D

JEDIpartner
11-22-2010, 04:34 PM
Word. As a wise comedian said, why shouldn't you have the right to be as miserable as everyone else. :D

That's right!! And... quite honestly, I'm perfectly happy after 8-years of being together! :thumbsup:

Bel-Cam Jos
11-22-2010, 05:38 PM
The song my player is on right now is Mr. Mister's "Is It Love?" That sounds appropriate for this thread (which I was avoiding simply because I thought it'd end up in the RP, but the topic's been handled logically and reasonably). You have to ask "what are your reasons?" for doing anything. You can get much of the aspects of a marriage in other areas, but all of them together require more than just "wanting" to have them; there's commitment and effort.

To me, in my cynical world, COMMITMENT is what is obsolete. "Everyone" (yes, I'm clearly over-generalizing) wants out of their problems when they get too tough to work through, or simply looks at the short-term plans. When 'U' and 'I' see each other as just another 'Q.T.' for fun, then eventually that spells 'QUIT.' (lame acronym humor, sorry :rolleyes: )

Snowtrooper
11-22-2010, 07:13 PM
To me, in my cynical world, COMMITMENT is what is obsolete. "Everyone" (yes, I'm clearly over-generalizing) wants out of their problems when they get too tough to work through, or simply looks at the short-term plans. When 'U' and 'I' see each other as just another 'Q.T.' for fun, then eventually that spells 'QUIT.' (lame acronym humor, sorry :rolleyes: )


Commitment to another is not dead nor obsolete. A good friend of mine was in a motorcycle accident about a year and a half ago. To make a long story short, hes not who he once was and never will be. His wife could have easily kicked him to the curb and gotten herself another guy by now. Instead, she has stuck with him because she can't imagine herself being with somebody else. The situation is extremely difficult and I don't know how she handles it sometimes, but she does because of her dedication to him and all that he did in his life.

One of my wife's relatives had a stroke at a very young age. He's not in as bad of shape as my friend is, but it required alot of care from his wife for a long period of time to get him to the point to where he could take care of himself. He's also a shadow of his former self, but his wife stood by him when she could have easily ditched him and gotten herself somebody else.

Commitment to one another makes for a good team and good teams can accomplish anything, even in the darkest hour.

Bel-Cam Jos
11-22-2010, 07:50 PM
I'm glad to hear stories like that. Just wish there were MORE cases of positive ones.

sith_killer_99
11-22-2010, 08:55 PM
You can have that last one without being married. ;)

Yeah, that one wasn't meant to be "marriage specific" more an explanation about double incomes, which is also not marriage specific.:thumbsup:

TeeEye7
11-23-2010, 03:57 AM
All the positives people have presented? You don't need to be married to have that. You just need to be committed to each other.



Commitment to one another makes for a good team and good teams can accomplish anything, even in the darkest hour.

Commitment: That's what it's all about! :thumbsup: :D

Well said, guys!

bigbarada
11-23-2010, 08:59 AM
To have a successful marriage, each person needs to be willing to put the needs, wants and desires of their spouse ahead of their own and they have to want to do that for the rest of their natural lives. That's the primary reason I'm not married, because I haven't found a woman yet who makes me want to give up my independence.

I think marriage being a permanent, lifelong commitment is most crucial when it comes to raising kids. Children need that structure and stability in order to fully mature into healthy and productive adults.

For me personally, I think the point of marriage is to produce children. So if you're not going to have children then there really isn't any reason to get married. I actually became friends with a girl a few years ago and the thought of getting married started to cross my mind, until I found out that she had had herself fixed and couldn't have children. Once I learned that, then any thoughts of marriage went out the window and, if I wasn't planning on marrying her, then there was no point in dating her; so I never pursued a relationship with her past the friends stage.

But, this is just my opinion on marriage, so take it with a grain of salt. I'm not saying that everyone needs to think this way, but I do take marriage very, very seriously and I'm not willing to enter into the commitment haphazardly just to alleviate the occasional bouts of loneliness.

JEDIpartner
11-23-2010, 10:33 AM
Children need that structure and stability in order to fully mature into healthy and productive adults.

That's clearly not true. There are plenty of people who are raised by single parents who are more successful and emotionally stable than those raised by two parents.

Blue2th
11-23-2010, 12:13 PM
Plenty of kids that go to two separate houses to live.
Modern kids are used to all kinds of things and different families these days. What's normal?

"Our D-I-V-O-R-C-E is final..today" as Tammy Wynette would sing (in her funny looking hairsprayed hair lol)

JEDIpartner
11-23-2010, 12:15 PM
Plenty of kids that go to two separate houses to live.
Modern kids are used to all kinds of things and different families these days. What's normal?

"Our D-I-V-O-R-C-E is final..today" as Tammy Wynette would sing (in her funny looking hairsprayed hair lol)

Before she headed off to MU-MU Land in the Ice Cream Van! :thumbsup:

God... I love "Justified and Ancient" by KLF featuring Tammy Wynette!!!

Blue2th
11-23-2010, 12:49 PM
...yup, and George Jones (her x-hubby) sang..."He stopped luvin' her today,... they placed a wreath upon his graaeeve"

JEDIpartner
11-23-2010, 12:54 PM
:) Oh, we miss good old Tammy!!!

Beast
11-23-2010, 01:23 PM
Plenty of kids that go to two separate houses to live.
Modern kids are used to all kinds of things and different families these days. What's normal?

"Our D-I-V-O-R-C-E is final..today" as Tammy Wynette would sing (in her funny looking hairsprayed hair lol)
*Is a child of divorce* Among other things.

Other than liking Jar Jar Binks, I would have to say I am pretty normal. ;)

But again, what is normal? It's not really something that one can really dictate.

TeeEye7
11-23-2010, 04:33 PM
:) Oh, we miss good old Tammy!!!

Has Cass been replaced? :confused:

JEDIpartner
11-23-2010, 04:42 PM
Tammy is one of the moons that circle the planet Cass. :)

nohagent
11-23-2010, 05:57 PM
My Divorce was final sept 24th, however I am still in court. The ex trying all sorts of shenanigans.

Yesterday she was trying to assert in court that we had reconciled from the original sep date and that our marriage lasted over 10 years by showing photographs of us happy together in the last 2-3 years, however the reality is these photos were at kids events and such co-parenting things so of course we were happy (for the kids). Such dishonesty, cant believe I married this woman, but of course without her I wouldn't have my son.

Craziness

bigbarada
11-23-2010, 06:39 PM
That's clearly not true. There are plenty of people who are raised by single parents who are more successful and emotionally stable than those raised by two parents.

Well, it's just my opinion, but it's not something that I developed without some thought and research. I do believe that there is enough scientific evidence to support my point of view.


What's normal?

Who said anything about "normal"? We're talking about being healthy and productive. Two aspects of a person's life that are objective and quantifiable. Normal is subjective and varies from family to family.

Beast
11-23-2010, 11:28 PM
I don't see it. It doesn't require two parents for kids to be healthy and productive.

That viewpoint really makes no sense, and I don't see any legitimate facts backing it up.

Sounds akin to those people who claim that non-straight parents face similar issues.

Blue2th
11-24-2010, 12:54 AM
Who said anything about "normal"? We're talking about being healthy and productive. Two aspects of a person's life that are objective and quantifiable. Normal is subjective and varies from family to family.

What's healthy and productive? What's objective and quantifiable?
One man's measure is another man's not good enough.
Depends on who is holding the bar, or who keeps moving it.
By which standard are we speaking? The gold standard?

Lord Malakite
11-24-2010, 05:05 AM
But again, what is normal? It's not really something that one can really dictate.
I'm considered normal according to current United States psych standards for mental evaluation. Something to think about. ;)

Qui-Long Gone
11-24-2010, 05:20 AM
There is plenty of research that children from single families have significantly more emotional and (adult) relationship hurdles to face than kids from 2 parents. Everyone on this thread knows this and the ones who object to this aren't stupid, they just have ZERO experience working with kids, teens, or young adults....or they have never settled their difficult childhood experiences growing up in split homes.

This doesn't suggest that kids from "traditional" homes are perfectly well-adjusted and that kids raised by hard-working single moms (or dads) are entirely dysfunctional. There are plenty of murderous psychos who had a mummy and daddy and plenty of great humans who were brought up by tough-minded single parents who broke their bones to give their kids the best shot at success.

Having worked with kids of many ages from many divergent economic and family backgrounds for over 20 years now, I can say without qualitative or quantitative research that kids raised by healthy, loving parents have great chances at growing up to be healthy, loving people while kids without such a home need MUCH MORE HELP from teachers, coaches, ministers, etc. to achieve such important human virtues as peace of mind, selflessness, empathy, loyalty, and trust.

I grew up in a 2 parent home and my mom and dad fought like cats and dogs. I bear plenty of scares from their disfunction. My wife grew up in a divorced home and went through 3 different step-parents. After several years of marriage and 2 kids together, I would NEVER want to trade her experience for mine even when my parents fighting SUCKED.

bigbarada
11-24-2010, 09:47 AM
There is plenty of research that children from single families have significantly more emotional and (adult) relationship hurdles to face than kids from 2 parents. Everyone on this thread knows this and the ones who object to this aren't stupid, they just have ZERO experience working with kids, teens, or young adults....or they have never settled their difficult childhood experiences growing up in split homes.

This doesn't suggest that kids from "traditional" homes are perfectly well-adjusted and that kids raised by hard-working single moms (or dads) are entirely dysfunctional. There are plenty of murderous psychos who had a mummy and daddy and plenty of great humans who were brought up by tough-minded single parents who broke their bones to give their kids the best shot at success.

Having worked with kids of many ages from many divergent economic and family backgrounds for over 20 years now, I can say without qualitative or quantitative research that kids raised by healthy, loving parents have great chances at growing up to be healthy, loving people while kids without such a home need MUCH MORE HELP from teachers, coaches, ministers, etc. to achieve such important human virtues as peace of mind, selflessness, empathy, loyalty, and trust..

My college Sociology and Psychology professors would pretty much confirm that.

I've read that the emotional damage caused by divorce lasts for a minimum of around 25 years. That's for everyone in the family: the husband, the wife, and all the children. They will all bear the scars and be dealing with the emotional consequences of the divorce for at least 2 and a half decades. Considering that 50% of marriages end in divorce, it's a pretty tragic fact of life for our current society.

Now that statistic doesn't take into account kids born into single parent households. It's merely referring to children of divorce.

Qui-Long Gone
11-24-2010, 03:32 PM
I think a lot of credit should go to single parents who bust their @$$ to raise their kids. They often get too much flak from society for not fitting the "norm." Major kudos also goes to divorced parents who act like adults instead of bashing their x in front of the children. Step-parents are also sorely underrated and their are MANY good ones.

The following parents SUCK:
1. Dads who run out on the family because "mommy" was just too difficult to deal with....grow a sack scumbags and man-up.
2. Moms who run out on the family because their "needs" aren't being met.
3. Divorced parents who bash their X in front of kids, especially moms who convince little Timmy that men are jerks (that should help Timmy be a good husband), or dads who tell little Sarah that women are crazy (that should help Sarah not grow up to be a stripper).
4. Married parents who never deal with their issues together or openly with their kids to teach them that while no one is perfect, adult conflicts can be settled by adults.

Tycho
11-24-2010, 04:39 PM
Yesterday I had dinner with my best friend, who's going through a divorce after a horribly dysfunctional marriage that went real bad, really fast. They were only married 5 years, but luckily had no children.

He told me that I will meet a cool girl, and he hopes that I'll fall in love with the right one, and I should take the risk and get married to her one day.

I really couldn't believe I was hearing this, especially coming from him!

I know his intentions were to wish me happiness, but it sure sounded like the hopes he had for me would lead me to misery!

No! No! No! I will never surrender my freedom as a bachelor!

I left dinner quite angry actually - though he was unaware of it.

Bel-Cam Jos
11-24-2010, 06:10 PM
I left dinner quite angry actually - though he was unaware of it.He will be once he finds out you swiped his silverware! ;)

What was that song that Blink 182 did, "Stay Together for the Kids"? Until they're adults, that's a worthwhile effort, but not being a parent myself (although I sadly fit the all-too-common 'child of divorce' category :( ) I can't honestly speak on that. My parents divorced when I was 17 but had been separated for at least a year prior; that meant I was old enough to not blame myself but also old enough to affect my desire to wed (or not to, as the case has shown).

bigbarada
11-25-2010, 12:14 AM
I think a lot of credit should go to single parents who bust their @$$ to raise their kids. They often get too much flak from society for not fitting the "norm." Major kudos also goes to divorced parents who act like adults instead of bashing their x in front of the children. Step-parents are also sorely underrated and their are MANY good ones.

The following parents SUCK:
1. Dads who run out on the family because "mommy" was just too difficult to deal with....grow a sack scumbags and man-up.
2. Moms who run out on the family because their "needs" aren't being met.
3. Divorced parents who bash their X in front of kids, especially moms who convince little Timmy that men are jerks (that should help Timmy be a good husband), or dads who tell little Sarah that women are crazy (that should help Sarah not grow up to be a stripper).
4. Married parents who never deal with their issues together or openly with their kids to teach them that while no one is perfect, adult conflicts can be settled by adults.

Unfortunately, my brother and his wife got divorced two years ago and the ex-wife definitely fits into categories 2 and 3 on your list. They had three boys and those kids' lives have been absolutely devastated by the split. They lived in New Mexico, which is a "no fault" divorce state, so she initiated everything and my brother was powerless to stop her. If he had refused to sign the papers, then the judge would have simply signed for him and the divorce would have gone through no matter what he did. The bright side is that the ex-wife has actually given up custody of two of the boys and will give up the third (the youngest) when he gets a little older. The two oldest boys are currently staying with my parents until my brother gets out of the Army. Of course, they are going to have many issues to deal with in the years to come, but at least for now they are in a home where they know that they are loved.

Anyways, back to the topic of marriage. I mentioned my Sociology professor earlier and he actually did an entire lecture on the traditions surrounding marriage. It turns out that, prior to World War 2, the notion that two young adults would choose for themselves who to marry, based solely on romantic feelings towards each other, was considered perverse. Even in America, most marriages were arranged by the parents until the 1920s-30s. What's even more interesting is that once marriages stopped being arranged and kids were allowed to only marry the person that they "loved," the divorce rates started to skyrocket.

My personal take on that? This modern notion that everyone has one "soul mate" out there and you just have to find that person if you want to have any hope of being happy in this lifetime, is nonsense. You can learn to love ANYBODY, it doesn't matter who they are.

InsaneJediGirl
11-25-2010, 12:42 AM
He will be once he finds out you swiped his silverware! ;)

What was that song that Blink 182 did, "Stay Together for the Kids"? Until they're adults, that's a worthwhile effort, but not being a parent myself (although I sadly fit the all-too-common 'child of divorce' category :( ) I can't honestly speak on that. My parents divorced when I was 17 but had been separated for at least a year prior; that meant I was old enough to not blame myself but also old enough to affect my desire to wed (or not to, as the case has shown).

My parents stayed together "for the kids" and it really sucked. They finally divorced about 4 years or so ago. I think its a really,really bad idea to stay together if you hate one another that much, the kids really can tell.

I'm not sure if I want to place my non-desire to marry on my parents divorce, or my controlling/perfectionist ways:) I think the divorce, seeing it as I was 21, did have a different effect on my views of love and marriage since I was old enough to fully understand.