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El Chuxter
11-27-2010, 12:21 AM
Both of these shows premiered tonight. I watched them both. And they were like night and day.

GI Joe: Renegades has some minor issues with the character designs. They're abstract, but in a way that's a bit jarring at first. But you get used to it quickly, and the animation is top notch.

Overall, the show was excellent. It's a worthy update to the original, with plenty of homages thrown in. (I caught the line "got to get tough" briefly in the theme music, two background characters looked remarkably like Junkyard and General "GI Joe" Colton, a nod to Flint and Lady Jaye's relationship in earlier incarnations, and, of course, the "Now you know" line in Cobra's TV ad.) But it's definitely something new, and unlike GI Joe as we've seen it before. And Hawk's eyepatch is the tip of the iceberg. Mindbender is a nerdy young fellow, the Joes are on the run from Flint (and I can't tell you how odd it feels to root for Duke over Flint), and Cobra is a seemingly benevolent super-corporation. I'd seen stuff on the Bio-Vipers in some promotional material and was worried about that angle, but it's handled really well. I especially love the origins of the code names.

Some bits that could have been blown, like Cobra Commander's reveal or the twist with Tunnel Rat smelling bad were handled pretty masterfully. This shouldn't be a great shock, given that the writers have Batman: The Animated Series, Gargoyles, and several other classic series on the resumes (and, yes, even The Clone Wars). I think it's safe to say that reports of Ripcord's demise have been greatly exaggerated, however.

Transformers: Prime was almost the opposite. It almost seemed like casting Cullen and Welker as Prime and Megatron was the only thing they got right. I wish Hasbro would get over the sudden weird fetish with making Bumblebee be this silent, deadly warrior. It's too fundamental a change to the character, not to mention it seems like a major knockoff of Snake Eyes when the show airs right after a superior Joe cartoon that features Snake Eyes prominently. (And don't say that I'm being hypocritical because I don't mind Renegades Ripcord being black. That's just a cosmetic change.)

Animation was downright bad throughout Prime, and the color palettes so monochromatic, it got hard to watch. I almost dosed off; if the show wasn't boring my daughter so much she got up and was loudly playing something else, I would've slept. The writing was just bad (and, really, what should we expect from the writers of the movies?), and it seemed to culminate in the human kids. A stereotypical loser guy, an insanely bizarre Japanese exchange student, and a nerdy little kid who looks like he just stepped out of the Disney flop Meet the Robinsons and can understand Bumblebee's weird chirping for reasons that make no sense and the script doesn't even try to explain. I don't know which of them was worst.

Strangely, as bad as the show was overall, I actually liked the parts that were solely focused on Decepticons. Aside from everyone but the main three being what appeared to be generic Battlechargers or Stunticons (and mindless, mute, and identical) and Soundwave's being essentially a Decepticon Bumblebee (mute and talking in recorded clips from other characters), the Con parts were quite good. The dark palette and abstract designs worked on them, and there had clearly been a lot more work done on their dialogue and voice acting.

There was a lot of potential, and it was blown. It's a concept that should have worked, and never clicks except the relatively short bits with Megatron and Starscream. It would take a full-on G1 Grimlock takeover to save this mess. By contrast, GI Joe: Renegades was so insane a premise, it should not have worked by any stretch of the imagination, and it's, so far, second only to Resolute as the best Joe series yet.

JediTricks
11-28-2010, 05:04 PM
GI Joe Renegades looks awful (visually), it is basically a rehash of the art style used from Men in Black: The Series (which is no surprise because Jeff Kline is a driving force with both). It looks cheap and has a pastel palette that I found offputting. The character designs are also pretty awful, Scarlett's face is downright bizarre. But I really enjoyed MIB:TS despite its cheap art, and GIJR here was ok too, despite being completely un-Joe-like in its feel. From a Joe-perspective, I didn't care for how the GI Joe team came together, who they were before, and who they were becoming. But once I was able to put that aside, I was compelled to watch the second episode to see what happened. The writing staff includes Marty Isenberg, which clearly has a positive effect. I really didn't buy Mindbender or his Bio-Viper though. But I could see being a kid watching this, I just can't see buying any toys from it.

Oh, you know what really drew me out of this show though? "Cobra Industries" being seen as SUCH a good-guy company, the name alone just isn't believable. "My mom worked at a Cobra bakery for 10 years" was funny but c'mon, that name says you're baking poison into bread.


As for TF:Prime, I totally agree that the palettes were dingy and dull and depressing, and the use of Bumblebee as a mute is completely stupid - though I disagree as to the comparison to Snake Eyes. Bumblebee being mute makes no sense when all the bots can understand his weird musical language and so can 1 of the 3 human kids despite no explanation - if nearly everybody can understand him, then so should the audience.

TF Prime was just terrible in every way though, ugly CGI that looks way out of date, flappy mouths with nothing behind them, creepy eyes on the heroes, following the movie in tone and design, it was just a flat, pointless exercise in firing red and blue lasers to sell (not-yet-existent) toys. The robot designs looked bad, the transformations looked cheap, the battles looked hollow. Arcee calling everything "'con" and "cliff'" was offputting and felt like a newcomer's take on TF, not a warrior who had been doing battle with these forces for thousands of years. The idea that Starscream and his drones could snatch up Cliffjumper and do what they did makes it curious as to why they haven't done it with more of the VERY SMALL team on Earth - another movie conceit that I feel makes no sense. I hated the voice on Starscream, didn't even understand what Soundwave was saying or how, and of course the kids were entirely junk - the short kid looked like it was ripped off straight from Disney's Up, minus the texture levels and quality. And what's the point of recycling the look of Bulkhead from TF:Animated when the character is so different?!? Drones are exactly what I feared, generic nobodies meant to be cannon-fodder for our heroes.

The voice acting was ok, I think they made Optimus too bombastic though, and Welker's still finding his legs as this Megatron, and ironically the former is over-processed and the latter under-processed. Arcee was ok I guess, not bad, not stand-out great but not bad. The Rock as Cliffjumper was quite decent really, too bad they killed the character, and in such a disturbing manner. The best work though was Jeffery Combs as Ratchet, that was the one true bright spot in TF:P, they gave the character a little extra writing and he put his touch on the material, and despite the fact that Ratchet does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in these first 2 eps, he was the aspect that got me watching the second ep when I wasn't inclined to.

But as for the show, it looked horrible, was terribly written, and I doubt I'd want toys from it despite loving TF:A toys.

Maradona
11-28-2010, 05:27 PM
Given that Hasbro invested so much work into a network and this original programming, I'm saddened at the product. On Friday, I recorded 4 programs: GI Joe, TF, Young Justice, and Avengers. I watched Young Justice first and it was utterly satisfying. Avengers was not as good, I still have major trouble with the voices, but I like where the series seems to be going. TF, I watched just the "Cliffjumper/Rock" opening and haven't been compelled to finish yet. I really liked the TF:Animated show from a few years ago and I see this as a major step backwards. Renegades I began, but haven't finished either. Much of it is bothering me. I'm not sold on the character designs, but the animation is very fluid. The look isn't what I would imagine it could be for a show about warfare. I suppose that in the time to come, the shows might evolve into something more well-rounded. Hasbro has no intention of calling either show off anytime soon, I'm sure.

JediTricks
11-28-2010, 06:27 PM
I DVR'ed Young Justice, GIJR, and TFP, and watched them together-ish. In order, I watched the first TFP ep and struggled to complete it. I watched the first ep of GIJR and at first wasn't into it, but by the end was compelled. Then I watched Young Justice and enjoyed it thoroughly. Then I watched the second GIJR ep right away because I wanted to see how it continued that storyline (it was ok, not brilliant or as expansive, but ok). Later, I suffered through the decision to watch the 2nd TFP episode, and I think I put it off until I was super bored with my day, and it was the least-watchable of everything.


BTW, how weird is it that GIJR is basically going to be The A-Team?

El Chuxter
11-28-2010, 06:44 PM
Not entirely the A-Team. They're going to be going after Cobra, not working as soldiers of fortune.

Maradona, it's more a spy show than a war show, at least so far. And I have a feeling quite a few more classic characters will show up soon. Destro has been pretty much confirmed, Storm Shadow and Jinx are confirmed, and Wikipedia lists several others (Zartan, Major Bludd, and the Crimson Twins), though I have no clue what their source is. (This does seem to fit in with the way the show is done so far--the supply of Cobras could be limitless, but I see the Joe team staying small for now.)

nohagent
11-28-2010, 09:52 PM
I hated Sigma Six and well, I smell it.

My god, the world was so much better when we had the Soviets

JediTricks
11-30-2010, 04:19 PM
Destro is confirmed, being voiced by the legendary Clancy Brown.

I suspect we'll get some A-Team type stories, side mission stuff.

This does remind me of Sigma Six a little, although I didn't "hate" it (I liked the toys, the show wasn't that great).

El Chuxter
12-03-2010, 10:31 PM
The opening to Renegades changed from the first 2-parter. It now seems to play up an homage to the A-Team, and I noticed Ripcord is no longer in the opening, so he might actually be dead after all. I'm not sold on that, but it seems more likely than before.

Love the new takes on Breaker and Major Bludd. The writing on this show is quite solid thus far. And I have to get Major Bludd's vehicle. That thing was freaking sweet.

Who else saw Bludd losing an eye a mile away? :D

As for Prime, I gave up and haven't watched anything beyond the first two eps.

Maradona
12-04-2010, 01:29 AM
The opening to Renegades changed from the first 2-parter. It now seems to play up an homage to the A-Team, and I noticed Ripcord is no longer in the opening, so he might actually be dead after all. I'm not sold on that, but it seems more likely than before.

Love the new takes on Breaker and Major Bludd. The writing on this show is quite solid thus far. And I have to get Major Bludd's vehicle. That thing was freaking sweet.

Who else saw Bludd losing an eye a mile away? :D

As for Prime, I gave up and haven't watched anything beyond the first two eps.

I kept waiting for Bludd to lose his arm, too. The toy had a mechanical arm, so I don't think he's done being maimed. The episode flew by quickly. That's a positive sign.

El Chuxter
12-04-2010, 01:33 AM
Was it mechanical, or just armored? Did any story in any medium ever answer this?

Maradona
12-04-2010, 03:04 AM
Was it mechanical, or just armored? Did any story in any medium ever answer this?

You may be right. I always took it for granted that it was mechanical since it would not bend. I don't recall the file card or the original comics mentioning it. The cartoons certainly never did.

figrin bran
12-05-2010, 01:31 AM
I thought I had posted in this thread but I guess not.

I'm still getting used to the animation style of GIJR but I'm really loving the series thus far!

Blue2th
12-05-2010, 01:11 PM
Just watched Renegades. Enjoyed it immensely. So basically they're starting from the beginning when everybody gets their nicknames.

With the opening Cobra Industries commercial, the first scene there was some wheat, then as the crew is leaving the base a scene of corn, then Roadblock mentioning his mother working at a Cobra bakery. I kind of see one angle they could be going with this. It's so relevant with genetic engineering of food these days.

Anyways I like the animation. When do we start seeing the figures?

Can't wait to see the next episode, though It's delayed for me as I have to get it off the web.

Phantom-like Menace
12-09-2010, 01:04 AM
I've only seen the first half of the first episode so far. . . . I'm hoping the toys are cool, but I'm not sure I'll keep up with the series at this point. I refuse not to give it more time, but everything feels off to me right now. It's not like they have a few things right and might work on the rest, it's more like they have nothing right.

I already straight up want to love the toys. We haven't heard anything mroe about them than reports that they will not be in the style of the cartoon, but I adored the 25th series, still think it was the best things to happen in toys in years, and PoC was cool but too short-lived. As long as Renegade toys are cool, I don't care if the series blows beyond belief

Blue2th
12-09-2010, 11:13 PM
Episodes 2 and 3 are up online at the Hub:

http://www.hubworld.com/gi-joe/shows/renegades/videos/

Been watching the Transformers as well. Missed Episode 2 can't seem to find it, but watched Episode 3. Zombie Transformers?

Phantom-like Menace
12-10-2010, 05:33 PM
The nickname thing is bothering me. We had to go out of our way to establish why several of the characters have nicknames, but Duke, Flint, Sake-Eyes, and Lady Jay just have nicknames already. I've always just figured using code names helps preserve mission secrecy, so I've never really needed any major explanation for it. And Ripcord's nickname had a lame, lame origin.

As for the second part of the first episode, Roadblock, or any adult really needs to be told not to eat random mushrooms? Then Tunnel Rat, who had enough sense not to eat the mushrooms tastes Bio-Viper with no hesitation?

El Chuxter
12-17-2010, 05:07 PM
SPOILERS!




Interesting how they set up the death of the Hard Master. Sort of the comic book story in reverse, with Storm Shadow believing Snake Eyes killed him. Storm Shadow didn't seem to be lying, either, which raises the question: who did poison the Hard Master? And will Jinx figure out the truth?

I'm guessing there's a certain fellow involved who tends to turn blue in sunlight. If not him, a guy who loves nothing more than blowing stuff up.

Blue2th
12-18-2010, 03:33 PM
Agreed, it was someone else. An interesting twist on the story. May as well elaborate on it, it was one of the better parts of Resolute.

figrin bran
12-18-2010, 07:33 PM
I got Cobra Fury from Ross for $11.99! There were 3 of Fury but no VAMP.

edit : Oops, I should have posted that in the Joe movie toys thread.

Just to stay on topic, I have a feeling Jinx will not discover the truth.

Phantom-like Menace
12-23-2010, 12:05 AM
Interesting how they set up the death of the Hard Master. Sort of the comic book story in reverse, with Storm Shadow believing Snake Eyes killed him.

I just caught the fourth episode, and I did like this twist, especially coming off of the line of reboots (Resolute, RoC) that seem to paint Storm Shadow as the remorseless killer of his own uncle. I say seem, because I'm not convinced they won't go the other way in some RoC sequel.

I'm not that familiar with the comic. I know Storm Shadow was jealous of Snake-Eyes' place in the clan, and I know he was proud and arrogant, but just how unlikable was he? I always got the feeling at least that those qualities were present just to make it reasonable for him to be the suspect in the attempted murder of Snake-Eyes/successful murder of Hard Master, that his motive was jealousy.

El Chuxter
12-23-2010, 12:36 AM
I say seem, because I'm not convinced they won't go the other way in some RoC sequel.

There's actually a line in the comic adaptation of ROC, apparently cut from the movie, where Storm Shadow tells Snake Eyes he didn't kill the Hard Master just before he falls to his (obviously not) death.

In the comic, they were buddies from Vietnam who were as close as brothers. After the war, Storm Shadow went to Japan, and Snake Eyes came home to find his family dead (in a sorta convoluted twist that involved Cobra Commander's brother and indirectly led to the founding of Cobra), so he joined Storm Shadow in Japan. He quickly became better than SS, and the Hard Master wanted to make SE his heir. SE refused.

Cobra Commander, meanwhile, had hired Zartan to infiltrate the clan and kill SE (whom he blamed for his brother's death). Zartan found peace as an apprentice swordsmith, but CC threatened to expose him to the clan and sent Firefly in to make sure Zartan did his job. Zartan used a high-tech bow (and an arrow stolen from SS, to frame him) to home in on SE's heartbeat and shoot him through a wall, not realizing that at that moment, the Hard Master was demonstrating an imitation technique to SE by imitating his heartbeat. The Hard Master was killed by SS's arrow, and SE saw SS apparently fleeing the scene. He was actually chasing Zartan (whom he didn't know) as far as his escape vehicle, a Cobra helicopter (presumably flown by Firefly).

SS joined Cobra and made his way through the ranks to become CC's personal bodyguard, knowing that CC would know the identity of the killer. He eventually found out and snuck into the Pit to inform SE, and the two attacked Cobra Island to seek revenge on Zartan. He was gunned down by the Baroness, left for dead, and, when he came out of his trance, he went into seclusion for a while before accompanying SE on a mission or two and officially joining the Joe team.

So, short story, in the comic book, he was always an honorable sort and sought especially hard to atone for his deeds as a Cobra once he left the organization.

Phantom-like Menace
12-23-2010, 03:07 AM
I basically know the history, because I've read synopses and histories, but I never actually read the comic, so my question pertains more to how the reader was supposed to feel about Storm Shadow, his attitude, his motivations.

I don't get the impression the comic was written for us to dislike him. We were obviously supposed to dislike him in Resolute, and it seems we're supposed to dislike him in Renegades.

I'm mostly curious how correct I am about him being likeable in the comic but maybe a little resentful about Snake-Eyes becoming so important within the Arashikage. As I said, if there is resentment, I understood it was more written to make it believable that the clan would immediately suspect that was his motive more than because we were supposed to dislike him for it. Is that off base?

Maradona
12-23-2010, 09:57 AM
So, short story, in the comic book, he was always an honorable sort and sought especially hard to atone for his deeds as a Cobra once he left the organization.

I remember how many years it took to fully uncover this story. G. I. Joe #7 was the first comic my dad ever bought me, way back in 1982. The story, mostly the lack of story, of Snake Eyes was such a quintessential part of 80s comics for me. His secrecy was shrouded much like Wolverine's was back when he was just Wolverine and not Mister Marvel Comics. I was far more satisfied with Snake Eyes' origin than I'll ever be of "James Howlett."

El Chuxter
12-23-2010, 11:41 AM
Re-reading them, I'd forgotten how well things are rolled out slowly. The first issue reveals he can't speak, and that he has a thing for Scarlett. The second reveals how he's scarred. Then #10 actually drops hints about his training, shows his prom night, and all sorts of other cool stuff when he's in the brainwave scanner.

Then #21 and the reveal of the tattoos (which are insanely overused now, IMHO) and it steamrolled from there. Still took until #93 before we saw his face, and something like #130 before we learned the identity of the Faceless Master and the last bits of his origin.

El Chuxter
01-07-2011, 05:41 PM
Every time I think this show has gotten as awesome as possible, I see the newest episode. :)

Blue2th
01-07-2011, 09:12 PM
That was good. I'm only catching "Homecoming Part 1" though on the internet.

Maradona
01-07-2011, 09:46 PM
Favorite line: "Ralph Pulaski." And, of course, I yelled out, "Steeler!"

El Chuxter
01-07-2011, 11:21 PM
I didn't recognize Steeler's name at first, but I was paying close attention to all the background characters. I caught them calling the doctor "Doctor Greer" (in addition to just "Doc" a few times).

I noticed the explosion was right in Scrap-Iron's face. I hope every hideously-scarred Cobra doesn't start in the show as a handsome guy and get scarred by the Joes at the end of his debut episode. (So far, two have appeared, and that's been the case with both.)

But Destro! And a HISS Tank! Holy crap!

Rogue II
01-08-2011, 12:48 AM
Was Scrap Iron the guy with Destro?

JediTricks
01-18-2011, 04:40 PM
Hasbro is giving us the opportunity to ask 1 question of the TF: Prime production teams. We must submit our question by Friday. What should we ask?

El Chuxter
01-18-2011, 04:46 PM
Are we not being given the same opportunity with the Renegades team? I hate to sound like this, but I couldn't care less about any question that could be asked of the Prime team, aside from maybe, "Any chance you guys could do a good Transformers cartoon, sorta like the last two GIJoe cartoons?"

JediTricks
01-18-2011, 04:52 PM
Just TF:P for now.

Maradona
01-18-2011, 04:58 PM
Gosh, I'm tempted to ask "Does the show get any better," but that is way too general and doesn't specify silly voices or animation quality. Maybe if it was worded "Does the tone of the show, both in characterization and animation style, mature?" or "Will further episodes of the show take place perpetually in the same timeframe or will the characters grow up?" I can't seem to come up with a sentence that encapsulates my disappoint with the show's style and voices.

For the 90s Beast Wars, I could never connect with the voices of the characters, so I avoided watching the show. When I saw it with Japanese dubbing and English subtitles, I liked it vastly more.

El Chuxter
01-18-2011, 05:23 PM
Maybe we can ask if they plan to focus more on robots and less on annoying kids anytime soon. I probably could've liked the show if not for the brat squad. It wouldn't have been my favorite, but I wouldn't be turning the channel when a new episode comes on, either.

El Chuxter
01-19-2011, 12:39 PM
Perhaps:

"Fan reaction to Prime has been mixed. Many of those who dislike the show don't enjoy it primarily because of the heavy focus on a trio of human kids who they describe as annoying and unrealistic. Fans of the show also seem to agree that the kids get way too much attention when it should focus on the Transformers themselves. Since this was a major complaint with the Robots in Disguise series, as well as the live action films, why did you choose to go this route, and will the focus on the humans be toned down or is it here to stay?"

JediTricks
01-20-2011, 05:09 PM
Question has to go in tonight.


Gosh, I'm tempted to ask "Does the show get any better," but that is way too general and doesn't specify silly voices or animation quality. Maybe if it was worded "Does the tone of the show, both in characterization and animation style, mature?" or "Will further episodes of the show take place perpetually in the same timeframe or will the characters grow up?" I can't seem to come up with a sentence that encapsulates my disappoint with the show's style and voices. "Grow up", this suggests only the human characters, so I'm not sure if you mean to refer to ALL of the characters. If I don't hear back before I send the question in tonight, I'll assume the latter. I don't have a problem with the question, but it needs to be honed a little.



Maybe we can ask if they plan to focus more on robots and less on annoying kids anytime soon. I probably could've liked the show if not for the brat squad. It wouldn't have been my favorite, but I wouldn't be turning the channel when a new episode comes on, either.I do agree on this, but I would take this question as a subset to Maradona's question, so I'd be more likely to ask that one first.


Perhaps:

"Fan reaction to Prime has been mixed. Many of those who dislike the show don't enjoy it primarily because of the heavy focus on a trio of human kids who they describe as annoying and unrealistic. Fans of the show also seem to agree that the kids get way too much attention when it should focus on the Transformers themselves. Since this was a major complaint with the Robots in Disguise series, as well as the live action films, why did you choose to go this route, and will the focus on the humans be toned down or is it here to stay?" This is the question asked of nearly every new TF series since Beast Wars, and the answer is always the same thing about needing a character for the audience to relate to, and someone for the heroes to protect, and someone for the alien robots to communicate and interact with that represents their new planet. It's a bit thin since BW and BM proved you can tell good TF stories without humans and still attract a quality audience, but it's the same bunk they always give us because it's the easy road.

Maradona
01-20-2011, 07:42 PM
Question has to go in tonight.

"Grow up", this suggests only the human characters, so I'm not sure if you mean to refer to ALL of the characters. If I don't hear back before I send the question in tonight, I'll assume the latter. I don't have a problem with the question, but it needs to be honed a little.



I understand your suggestion and agree. I referred to the entirety of the characters and while I understand that nearly immortal robots don't necessarily "grow up," I think the direction of their development should/could mature.

El Chuxter
01-20-2011, 10:36 PM
JT, if it's not too late, I have another suggestion. I don't know if it would be possible to just throw this out in addition to another question or not, since it's not exactly a show-related question, but....

Have you considered, or would you consider, creating Facebook pages for Transformers: Prime, GIJoe: Renegades, and any other similar shows you may create?

It just seems odd that Hasbro seems to have a total non-presence on the most popular social networking site out there. They're a free (or practically free; I guess they might have to pay someone for the couple of minutes it would take to monitor them) way to promote to and interact with fans (or at least provide the illusion of interacting).

JediTricks
01-21-2011, 12:58 AM
I understand your suggestion and agree. I referred to the entirety of the characters and while I understand that nearly immortal robots don't necessarily "grow up," I think the direction of their development should/could mature.
Good, glad we were on the same page then. I'm going to pick between yours and Chaddy's in the TF collecting thread then.



JT, if it's not too late, I have another suggestion. I don't know if it would be possible to just throw this out in addition to another question or not, since it's not exactly a show-related question, but....

Have you considered, or would you consider, creating Facebook pages for Transformers: Prime, GIJoe: Renegades, and any other similar shows you may create?

It just seems odd that Hasbro seems to have a total non-presence on the most popular social networking site out there. They're a free (or practically free; I guess they might have to pay someone for the couple of minutes it would take to monitor them) way to promote to and interact with fans (or at least provide the illusion of interacting).
It was not too late, but at the same time, it's not what I'd pick for a first-choice question.

Hasbro is doing pretty well with their business model, they're #2 in their market, and yet their web-presence has sucked eggs for the last decade, so I guess it's not their way.



I had a really hard time deciding between Maradona's and Chaddymac's questions, but ultimately I'm going with the following version of Maradona's simply to help better inform the audience of what to expect; plus I fear Chaddy's good question will get an easy, pat answer. Anyway, here's what we're sending in:
Since the mini-series premiere of TF: Prime, fan reactions have been mixed to this latest series, and some were wondering... Will the tone of the show, the characters (both robot and human), the attempts at humor, the action, even the art be maturing as the series progresses, or is what we saw in the premiere pretty much the intended baseline level for the show?

El Chuxter
02-03-2011, 12:57 PM
Out of curiosity, does anyone else get the impression that The Hub is promoting Prime while almost attempting to bury Renegades, despite the general fan consensus being that Renegades is quite good and Prime is iffy?

It seems like every five minutes they send a Facebook update along the lines of "Only seven days, three hours, and fifty-two minutes until the Prime premiere!" They advertise it on TV constantly.

But Renegades gets maybe one commercial every half hour, and I've never seen anything on Facebook about it.

Wonder if they expect Prime to do better based solely on how much better the crappy Transformers live action movies performed than the crappy GIJoe live action movie. Or if they're aware they've got a potential dud and are pushing it heavily to build up the audience.

All I know is that, in the 4,732 times they've re-run the five-part miniseries, I've not re-watched the first two episodes of Prime, nor have I watched any of the further episodes. Like George W Bush said, "You can't, you won't get fooled again."

El Chuxter
02-05-2011, 01:35 AM
HOLY CRAP IN A HAT!

Just when you think this show has hit perfection, it gets better! I literally jumped out of my chair a few times at the sheer awesomeness of this episode. (And, yes, I know the difference between "literally" and "figuratively.") Everything is coming to a head finally, with the intrigue between Destro and Mindbender and Baroness and Cobra Commander.

This week's cameo/new character, who I expect is going to be a regular, was so freakin' sweet that I cannot put into words how awesome it was. I don't want to fully spoil it, but I actually thought it was a tad silly until another character said the name, and everything fell into place in an homage that worked on more than one level.

If you're not watching this, I have to weep at how there is a Renegades-shaped void in your life that you don't even realize needs to be filled.

JediTricks
02-09-2011, 03:04 PM
Yes, The Hub is definitely pushing Prime ahead of Renegades, and I don't think there's any specific reason, except that Renegades already launched while Prime has been in a 2-month holding pattern since the premiere 5 episodes.

JediTricks
02-09-2011, 03:13 PM
Our question for the TF Prime production has been answered, by none other than Duane Capizzi (The Batman, Jackie Chan Adventures, Big Guy & Rusty, Darkwing Duck, MIB the cartoon, and more)...

http://www.actionfigs.com/content.php/214-Transformers-Prime-Cartoon-Producers-Q-A

This would have been posted sooner, but there was a mixup in sending us the wrong answer initially, luckily it was caught and quickly corrected.

--

On a personal response to this, he says that the humor isn't deriving from "antics" but from "character", yet Miko is all antics, that's what her character is. Kinda reminds me of another of Mr. Capizzi's series' characters, Jade from Jackie Chan Adventures, except even more frenetic and ADD.

Maradona
02-11-2011, 08:56 PM
I hate Firefly's voice, but that doesn't surprise me. Good quality vocal direction and talent haven't exactly been the hallmarks of the Hub series. I wonder what would happen under the guidance of Andrea Romano.

El Chuxter
02-11-2011, 09:30 PM
I'm going to go out on a limb and wager we had a casualty tonight. If not, well, it'd be a bit much to have three hideously-scarred fellows get their scars in what amounts to the first few months of the team.

El Chuxter
03-11-2011, 08:28 PM
Tunnel Rat quoting The Princess Bride tonight made this show a thousand times more awesome than it already was.

Maradona
03-11-2011, 10:06 PM
I didn't like the Jim Jones-ish twins or the new Crimson Guards. Would revising Extensive Enterprises have been so difficult?

El Chuxter
03-11-2011, 10:31 PM
It did remind me an awful lot of the third story arc of the new IDW Cobra series ("Serpent's Coil"), only with the Twins instead of Serpentor.

Maradona
03-19-2011, 08:04 AM
I never expected this series to place so much emphasis on the facial scarification of its characters. Add Zartan to the growing list...

El Chuxter
03-21-2011, 12:24 AM
True. But, really, dude, did you expect to go from "fairly generic biker thug who likes to imitate voices" Zartan to "more badarse version of the classic character, right down to the hood and facial markings" Zartan in less than 30 minutes? Plus Wild Bill and Heavy Duty? I seriously came close to crapping my pants more than once during this episode.

Maradona
03-21-2011, 11:11 AM
I would have preferred this stand alone as Zartan's origin without the Born Losers/Billy Jack episode. Zartan as a petty biker thug doesn't sell me. If we didn't know why he was in federal prison and were only alluded to what he might have done to deserve it, he'd be a more mysterious, intriguing character. There is no real mystery to any of the iconic characters so far. Cobra Commander has half a mask, which maybe in time will become a full mask after he is scarred by a confrontation with Joes. I'll keep watching GI Joe:Origins, I mean Renegades, but I just wanted more than waiting for the cool cameo of the week.

El Chuxter
03-21-2011, 02:56 PM
The other episode explains his knack for imitating voices, though, and gives him the reason to be conditionally released to search for the Joes.

Maradona
03-24-2011, 07:24 PM
So that's it for Renegades, it seems. I read that there is a "hiatus" planned after the current run of episodes until the next film comes out. Maybe they've decided to go back to the drawing board and rebrand what GI Joe is... again.

It will not easily happen, but I'd prefer a more Resolute-like series with a military edge. The setback for pursuing that, perhaps, is Hasbro wants to appeal to a worldwide audience without professing any political affiliation. Despite its name, the 80s show did that more so than Renegades has and Resolute was decidedly more global in its scope as well. I suppose what we get will depend on what the movie focus will be.

El Chuxter
03-25-2011, 02:48 AM
The show isn't doing well. Maybe it's because they hardly ever promote it? Most people who actually watch it seem to dig it. It's certainly better than Prime. Quality rises to the top, but only if the people making and distributing it don't try to bury it (cough, Pushing Daises, Arrested Development, cough).

Maybe there's some hope, though I'm not going to cling to it. The reasons they cite make no sense (why not put Prime on hiatus to focus on Dark of Michael Bay's Heart, since those movies are popular)?

Renegades seems to me like a stronger base to build an audience after the fiasco of Rise of Cobra. The movie was panned, the sequel seems to be falling apart, the toy line bombed harder than any other Hasbro line in recent memory, and, yet, they want to put their eggs in the sequel basket. It makes no sense. Another massive commercial disappointment on the ROC scale, and the line could wind up being canceled altogether.

Maradona
03-25-2011, 07:51 AM
I read on another site's thread that GI Joe has been essentially schizophrenic this past decade, though the post didn't use that term, with so many different iterations and revampings (no pun intended). They've had so many different scales (3.75", 8", 2.5", back to 3.75", with 12" sprinkled in sporadically), cartoon attempts (Valor vs. Venom, Sigma 6, Resolute, Renegades), and comic versions (I can't even count) that fans like us must wonder "what is going on?"

I think Hasbro is hoping to latch on to some identity to define the Joe-verse. They pegged it on the first film and it failed to resonate with fans. In what meeting do they decide "Let's latter, rinse, and repeat?"

El Chuxter
03-25-2011, 10:36 AM
At what point do they look at online buzz and say, "Hey, Renegades and Resolute were the only two stabs at GIJoe in film or TV from the past twenty years that generated mostly positive buzz. And one of them is probably too violent for The Hub"???

They're probably using kids in focus groups, having never learned that kids in focus groups are never as honest as they're supposed to be because they simply don't understand the purpose. And they can be coached pretty easily. "You think Prime is awesome, right?"

Maradona
03-25-2011, 11:55 AM
TF:Prime, for and because of all its faults, coincides with the Hasbro vision of Transformers as iterated on-screen. The style of the mechs are in line with what the film portrayed. As such, Hasbro is satisfied. I've watched Prime episodes, here and there, and am not a fan. In response, I avoid buy buying TF toys, but I'm not the target audience for the show or the toys. Hasbro sold the TF part of me out to the 8 year old crowd long ago. I think they've been wanting for some time now to sell the much larger G.I. Joe part of me to elementary school students nationwide. If they go to animated style figures or try to go for a Combat Heroes cartoon ala Superhero Squad, they'll succeed and I'll be done with collecting G.I. Joe. My wallet is rooting for Hasbro to succeed...

El Chuxter
03-25-2011, 01:23 PM
They have a real problem with consistency. Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow have to have the Arashikage sigil all over their uniforms, swords, etc, despite this being a rather secret thing in the past. Following the movie, they got so militant about "Ripcord must be a main character and black, and there's no dude called Roadblock--it's Heavy Duty" that IDW had to name a character who's obviously Roadblock, Heavy Duty, and shoehorn a black Ripcord into the comic, but, less than two years later, they kill off Ripcord immediately in Renegades and have Roadblock (with Heavy Duty again, apparently, his cousin).

They don't know what to do with the whole thing. Common sense would be to listen to the fans. Then again, they tried their damnedest to bury Resolute, and seem to have been woefully under-promoting Renegades. Seriously, it's Pushing Daisies all over again. (I say that because I've showed my PD DVD's to a lot of people, and no one ever thought it was anything short of awesome. But, even while the show was still on, no one had heard of it, and these weren't TV hermits, either. I know a lot of people who haven't heard of Renegades, and they almost always seem to dig it when they see it. But, hey, I'm just a viewer; what do I know?)

Mister Roboto
03-25-2011, 03:54 PM
The show isn't doing well. Maybe it's because they hardly ever promote it? Most people who actually watch it seem to dig it. It's certainly better than Prime. Quality rises to the top, but only if the people making and distributing it don't try to bury it (cough, Pushing Daises, Arrested Development, cough).

Maybe there's some hope, though I'm not going to cling to it. The reasons they cite make no sense (why not put Prime on hiatus to focus on Dark of Michael Bay's Heart, since those movies are popular)?

Renegades seems to me like a stronger base to build an audience after the fiasco of Rise of Cobra. The movie was panned, the sequel seems to be falling apart, the toy line bombed harder than any other Hasbro line in recent memory, and, yet, they want to put their eggs in the sequel basket. It makes no sense. Another massive commercial disappointment on the ROC scale, and the line could wind up being canceled altogether.

I never saw Rise of Cobra because it didn't look very good. according to wikipedia it grossed $302 million worldwide and IMDB says it grossed $150 million in the US. From a business point of view, the movie sequel will make a ton of more money than the Renegades cartoon weather it is a flop or not. It is probably safe to assume the movie will blow. Sucks for anyone that is a fan of the cartoon.

Maradona
03-25-2011, 04:23 PM
I never watched Pushing Daisies.

Consistency cannot successfully occur when there is no unifying vision. I'm not naive enough to think a brand should never change. Thank the Maker that G.I. Joe did change from 12" to 3 3/4". That change went through the 12" original line then to the Action Team then a hiatus ending in ARAH, the prosperity of which lasted 15 years before a switch out. There was the 4" Sgt. Savage line followed by Extreme followed by hiatus interspersed with ARAH hero 15th Anniversary, Valor v. Venom and Spy Troops, and DTC, before a re-imagining into Sigma Six, which itself was re-imagined from 8" to 2.5". Order was finally restored for a few years with the 25th Anniversary line. The line was going well, Resolute gave us promise of shining toy seas ahead, with a movie on the horizon. Chaos soon returned. What is the common thread here? We've had nearly 20 years of instability with the line. "Kids are ever changing," "the military is a touchy subject to many," "relevancy is tough to generate," whatever their excuse, the fact is Hasbro has a vein of gold they do not know how to mine. We get nuggets here and there, but most of the time we've been shoveled more dirt than anything sparkly.

Hasbro should get together with people like either Man of Action or Bruce Timm and his people to create an animated iteration of the Joes grounded in what has already existed. This could become the basis for comics, toys, and then a film based on what exists. All four should coincide with an overarching idea connecting them: cartoon, comics, toys, film. If that is what Hasbro has finally learned, it's about time. If they're planning on using the film as their base, they've hedge their bets poorly.

El Chuxter
03-25-2011, 04:56 PM
I can almost guarantee the sequel to ROC will not make those numbers, Roboto. A lot of people went to the first to "give it a chance." Audiences are less willing to take a chance on a sequel to a movie they know sucked.

Mister Roboto
03-28-2011, 03:12 PM
I can almost guarantee the sequel to ROC will not make those numbers, Roboto. A lot of people went to the first to "give it a chance." Audiences are less willing to take a chance on a sequel to a movie they know sucked.

Either way, the movie will still make more than a cartoon. I saw part of the first transformers movie on tv and didn't think it was very good. Didn't hear anything good about the 2nd. It amazes me how much they made in the box office.

Maradona
05-01-2011, 09:39 PM
"Long live the Oktober Guard!" Even though I dislike Tunnel Rat, the twins, and Mindbender, I liked this episode.

El Chuxter
05-12-2011, 01:13 PM
Last week's episode was inspired. Not only did they bring in an old favorite of mine, but the idea of a Joe trapped in a suit for all time (or at least an undetermined amount of time), as opposed to a Cobra, was such a novel twist, and so obvious in retrospect that I'm surprised it's not been done before (so far as I know).

Maradona
05-12-2011, 04:42 PM
Airtight's episode was stronger than most of, if not all, the rest. I hope that more of the episodes left are in the vein of this one.

El Chuxter
03-13-2012, 09:24 PM
I never posted my thoughts on the ending.

HOLY SNOT!!!

That about sums it up. :)

Renegades finally gets a DVD release listed for June. They're throwing it under the bus again, hard. Not only is there almost a full year after the final episode, but it's just half the season! And there's no blu-ray (not that I care, but it doesn't seem especially like they're wanting to sell lots of copies). Nothing like the hoopla about Prime (AKA "Casting Cullen and Welker Was the Extent of What We Were Willing to Do Right"), which got a full-season set, with extras, on both DVD and blu-ray.

God, I hate Hasbro and the way they sacrificed the best Joe series ever made for their live-action movies. :mad:

Maradona
03-14-2012, 08:48 AM
God, I hate Hasbro and the way they sacrificed the best Joe series ever made for their live-action movies. :mad:

Best? I think you're forgetting GI Joe:Extreme, sir.

JediTricks
03-14-2012, 07:36 PM
Uh, Extreme??? Are you kidding, or did you mean Resolute?

El Chuxter
03-14-2012, 11:03 PM
I figured it was a joke, which is why I hadn't responded. ;)

I loved Resolute, but Renegades beat it. I like that the DVD version fixes the weird transcription "Honor returned to the site" (s/b "On our return to the site," and it made people wonder who the heck "Honor" was), but I loathe the ending with the empty grave. This may have been the first we saw of Resolute Storm Shadow, but it was a fitting end (particularly when this is definitely a "final battle," with Major Bludd, Zartan, and possibly Cobra Commander getting killed as well). It's a especially dumb epilogue since they don't plan to continue it.

Maradona
03-15-2012, 09:03 AM
Yes, Extreme was truly a joke of a series. In case you need a refresher:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.I._Joe_Extreme

I will always have a fondness for the original Sunbow series. Resolute was the GI Joe of my dreams. Renegades showed promise. It looks like the premise of the series is the premise of the upcoming sequel. As such, I think the show might pick up where it left off some day. Hasbro's channel will have new GI Joe shows eventually.

El Chuxter
12-08-2012, 08:12 PM
Did Prime ditch the kids and get watchable? I saw a small portion of one of the newer episodes today, and it looked like a totally different cartoon with the same versions of the characters. It actually looked rather decent, at least, from what I saw.

Maradona
12-09-2012, 12:32 AM
The kids are still in it, but the show has moved into slightly different territory. I say that having not seen all the episodes.

figrin bran
12-10-2012, 05:49 PM
Some season 2 episodes don't have the kids at all, or else very minimal presence.

That being said, Bumblebee remains a very annoying character. I get annoyed by Wheeljack as well.

JediTricks
12-12-2012, 03:29 PM
Prime got a little better as season one got deeper, but still has the kiddies and they were even the catalyst for the big event ending season 2 which bugged the crap out of me - we can't sacrifice these 3 pointless children to save not only Cybertron but also Earth as well?!? Prime is still far from good though, lots of problems, but there are a few moments like Megatron getting furious about an Autobot theft aboard his high-flying ship where Megs tosses Decepticon vehicons after the airborne escaping Autobot... one of which is not a flight drone, and tries to voice this but doesn't get the chance before plummeting to his doom. :D