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View Full Version : Ep 1 dislikers, when did it FIRST go wrong for you?



JediTricks
08-26-2001, 10:28 AM
During my first viewing of Episode I at a midnight show, I went in feeling giddy about watching a new Star Wars film, but for me, when Daulty Dofine says "Are you brain-dead?!?", it made me really wonder if something had gone seriously wrong. I got past the weird voice of the Republic Cruiser pilot and the odd attitude and voice of TC-14, but when that line was uttered, my giddy feeling turned into a sense of dread, which was confirmed by the next 2 hours.

So, for you dislikers, when did that sense of impending doom first strike you?

Jargo
08-26-2001, 11:35 AM
The stark coldness of the first scene where the Jedi enter the trade federation ship. The fact that the music never matches the scene. The stilted wooden delivery of all the dialogue no matter who says it. The way that the trade federation reception room the Jedi are in looks like a corporate executive conference room in a japanese electronics firm. the fact that the film never really picked up pace from there on in. Natalie Portmans voice - or rather the hokey accent she attempts. As soon as she spoke i felt my skin crawl. the way all the scenes don't seem to be finished and all the element s look to be done by numbers with clunky pauses between dialogue and action sequence - Like the real director was running the show via a satellite link from a hospital intensive care bed....

bigbarada
08-26-2001, 11:54 AM
I wouldn't exactly call myself an Ep1 disliker, but upon my first viewing everything up to the Podrace seemed pretty dull and slow, as if all the characters' actions were predetermined and the actors were just going through the motions. In any well-made film, one action should logically lead up to another action, a cause and effect relationship. With a majority of TPM, each scene required some kind of mental leap, because the logic the characters were using totally conflicted with our system of logic. Many times a solution was discovered before a problem was even found. Like JarJar's revelation that he could take the Jedi to the Gungan city, well the movie never even explained why they needed to go to a city in the first place. Why not just hijack some Federation vehicles and beat-feet to Theed?

Upon repeat viewing of the movie, I've realized that I'm just hanging in there for the two major action sequences, the Podrace and Final Jedi Duel.

Don't get me wrong I still like TPM, for the same reasons I've forced myself to like ROTJ, and this is the first time I've actually tried to constructively criticize the film. So if I made no sense I'm sorry, all these feelings I've surpressed about the movie are just now flooding to the surface.

Jargo
08-26-2001, 12:23 PM
Good, good... give in to your anger. Your hatred will make you strong.....

actually, you voiced more eloquently what i was trying to say before.

bigbarada
08-26-2001, 12:52 PM
I feel the Dark Side flowing through me...ooh, it tickles:D

GNT
08-27-2001, 03:22 AM
I think its a slow moving movie with not the best graphics at sometimes. We didn't see much of the Jedi and the Council.


Plus that line Qui-Gon said to shmi when anakin was showing Qui-Gon the pod was rude IMO and it just continued to go down hill from there! And the final battle, it keeped on changing from MAUL VS OBI and QUI,Gungan Land battle and the air assult, really bugged me.

Plus some bad acting!

evenflow
08-27-2001, 08:56 AM
I too am not a Ep. I disliker, but would have to say the Neimodians costumes were cheap looking. The pod scene was boring and too long. As I write this, I admit, although never to any one who is not a Star Wars fans, Episode I was not that good. Maybe I am a disliker, I don't know.

JediTricks
08-27-2001, 09:47 AM
Jargo, I think that was the feeling Lucas was getting at with the Trade Federation's waiting room (and the TF themselves, but that's a totally different thread ;)).

I too don't care for the music, and I did feel uneasy when I first heard it (same with the sound effect of the Republic Cruiser's engines), but I remember still holding out hope till that stupid line of Daulty's... I think it was LUCAS who was "brain dead" when he wrote that.


Barada, do you mean the whole Tatooine sequences up to the pod, everything from the end of the crawl to the podrace, or perhaps everything from the Royal Starship's leaky hyperdrive leading UP TO the podrace? Just curious, though it seems like you only like some of the ELEMENTS of the film, like how I feel about ROTJ (and TPM).


evenflow, you might fit in with Barada, he likes PARTS, but not the film as a whole.


Readers, remember that this is about the FIRST time you felt uneasy about Ep 1, not just EVERY time (we don't have enough bandwidth for that ;) I should just post the whole film in MPEG format :D)

stillakid
08-27-2001, 10:02 AM
On first viewing, the very first thing that made me uneasy was the dialogue as soon as the Jedi reveal their faces. Qui Gon's delivery then ( and every line thereafter ) sounded like Liam was just plain bored and had no idea how to act the part. Obi Wan's line about something greater disturbing the Force was forced foreshadowing. It's fine to foreshadow stuff, but for christsakes, work it into the story, don't just beat us over the head with it.

That was the first sign of trouble, and I could go on and on after that (Natalie's terrible accent, Nemodian's bad lines, etc), but that's a book in and of itself! :D



Speaking of the Jedi needing to get to the city, why the hell did the Federation guys land on the opposite side of the planet in the middle of a forest and not in a village or city? Stupid, stupid, stupid....ARRGGGGGGH. Why couldn't it have been good...ohhh...I need to lay down for a spell...

bigbarada
08-27-2001, 12:03 PM
I think Watto was pretty much what pulled the movie out of the depths for me. He was probably the most interesting character in the film. And the most convincing CGI, at worst he looked like a puppet.

I think the lowest point in the movie, upon first viewing was when the Jedi were taken before Boss Nass. Just a terrible and awkward transition. Plus if Qui-Gonn and Obi-Wan had showed a little emotion during the fish chases then those sequences wouldn't seem so pointless.

stillakid
08-27-2001, 01:50 PM
Speaking of the fish chases, can somebody tell me what the point could possibly be for having the little sub lose power. That was so lame and, well, pointless, I can't even begin to figure out a plausible reason much less some idiotic one.

Darth Cruel
08-27-2001, 06:13 PM
It didn't really set in for me until I got the video. I just figured that I had misinterpreted the entire film from the opening crawl to the final wipe-to-the-credits (or was it a dissolve). I could go on and on about everything from corny writing to bad acting to poor set design to poor editing. And that all falls back on GL. The end credits were great though.

Ya know what is sad? I loaned out my copy of the video about a month after I bought it (I got my reserved copy on the day it arrived at Best Buy), I never got it back, I don't remember who borrowed it, and I haven't missed it enough to find or replace it.

I had very high expectations for TPM and it failed miserably. I look at it as a separate story now and not a true Star Wars movie. It is simply not good enough to be a Star Wars film to me. On the other hand...it was a pretty good wannabe a Star Wars film. Now that I think of it, I am not even sure why I bother to collect the figures from that episode.

Oops...now I have reneged on my personal oath to never post a negative message. Sorry. I truly hope I have not offended anyone. God I am going to hate myself when I realize I have posted a such hateful message. Thanks for the edit feature SS!

Obi-Don
08-27-2001, 07:09 PM
I don't dislike but I'm not crazy about it either.I haven't figured out why they had to go through the planet's core[I don't think even with thier advances in tech. that they would be able to do that] The worst was the Ani has no father[?] I didn't like that at all.It would have been better if she would have said she didn't know,that someone came to her at night or anything but ,it just happened.Lame!:mad:

ki-adi mundi's bro
08-27-2001, 07:14 PM
the point i lost it was with supreme challcalor valorum...he was the DULLIEST guy in the movie...i mean maul looked to show more emotion than he did...but the part that i think everyone liked and was brought out of the drool-coming-out-of-your-mouth part was when they light up there awsome lightsabers...always the best part...

stillakid
08-27-2001, 10:33 PM
Originally posted by ki-adi mundi's bro
the point i lost it was with supreme challcalor valorum...he was the DULLIEST guy in the movie...i mean maul looked to show more emotion than he did...but the part that i think everyone liked and was brought out of the drool-coming-out-of-your-mouth part was when they light up there awsome lightsabers...always the best part...


It took you THAT LONG?!! Geesh, sign up for the next Survivor when you get the chance.

JediTricks
08-28-2001, 09:37 AM
Poor General Zod, he signed up as Valorum specifically to work with the talented Natalie Portman, Lucas said this would happen, and when Zod ;) showed up in Valorum outfit, he learned that Nat had been given the day off, and he'd be working opposite... a piece of wood! No lie, that's what Terence Stamp says! I would think that being a method actor and needing to play off another actor would make Stamp's work wooden, but Stamp is naturally wooden anyway. ;) That guy's acting is stolid & flat as heck.

Fixer
08-28-2001, 01:21 PM
The first moment that I thought to myself "I have a bad feeling about this" was about 45 seconds in when I first heard the Neimodians' Foo Manchu accent. That just struck the wrong chord, and I never really recovered. Every once in a while, I'd start to get interested again, then Jar Jar would step in poop, or somebody farted and it all just went to hell.

JediTricks
08-30-2001, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by Fixer
Every once in a while, I'd start to get interested again, then Jar Jar would step in poop, or somebody farted and it all just went to hell. I know exactly what you mean, I would give it another chance and then something really lame would happen.

BTW Fixer, I had to edit out that last comment of yours, it was a spoiler.

Rollo Tomassi
09-02-2001, 05:05 PM
Ooooh!! Spoiling what? Was it about Jar jar? Now I feel like I'm missing something...



After I watched the film, I remember not having the "elation" as if I had just watched the OT. I couln't put my finger on it and chalked it up to having enjoyed the other films for 20 years, this one hadn't "sunk in" yet. But after seeing the film several times since, I have concluded that TPM doesn't have the "underdog" feeling of the original films. The main characters in the OT were "Rebels" a cocky pirate, a naive farmboy, and a plucky female all bucking the system. In TPM you've got what are essentially two intergalactic cops/monks and the ruler of the entire planet. These three just scream authority and the fact that they are all trying to out-stoicize each other doesn't help. it's hard to root for them when they take all the joy out of being the good guys. It's not a bad film and I still enjoy watching it, but it doesn't capture the adventure of Star Wars the way the other films do. hopefully there will be more madcap insanity against immeasurable odds in the next two...oh wait...Dark. Dreary. Depressing. Good guy kills all the other good guys. Darn.

Jargo
09-02-2001, 07:21 PM
I think mark hamill hit the nail on the head when he said that TPM lacked a cynical character as a counterpoint to all the logic and reasoning that went on. There was no-one to say no to anyone. At best we got a slight amount of reserve and trepidation from the Queen, but she just came over as sulky and spoilt under bad direction and acting.
Obi-Wan was a big wet nobody who wussed out and played the tree hugger when it came to the crunch and Qui-Gon died. Yeah he could jump around real fast and twirl his saber a bit, but he wasn't really a nay sayer was he?
Qui-Gon just went "oh right well we'll do it my way and screw all of you"
The jedi looked bored in their council chamber like they were waiting for the dancing chicks to show up or a stiff round of drinks or something.
If Watto hadn't had such a thick accent and was a sidekick not a bit player, we might have had some tension going somewhere. Even the droid army seemed a little unthreatening and safe. If Lucas had used some of the more aggresive looking designs for the droids then maybe we as the audience might have had a little sympathy for the Naboo citizens we never saw and felt the threat of invasion from a badass droid army that looked mean as hell. Instead we got some droids with cute faces who moved really slowly and were bad shots. We never got the feeling that the Gungans might suffer as a consequence of the invasion other than the fact they had to move house to avoid the troublesome neighbors...!
The Queens crack troops didn't seem bothered by it all, Only sio bibble had anything to say and that was just a moan.
Captain panaka was just a lazy coward who only shot his blaster because he was on the queens payroll. He never once looked like he felt a threat despite his words to the contrary.
Palpatine gave us a big wafty camp senator fond of the sound of his own voice and a thesaurus.
Jake loyd - Jake loyd..........!!!

I listened to the score again today and realise that the whole thing is the wrong way round. All the most dramatic points are underpinned by nothing and the worst parts of the movie get the big dramatic music. OK so that's an overstatement but Qui-Gon's death and Maul's have no dramatic underscoring at all. there's just dead space in the soundtrack where we should have had a big swell of thundering orchestration.
All in all the whole film started off well with the usual panache but went downhill from the moment the opening crawl rambled on like some 1950's courtroom drama flick.
The language of the whole script felt wrong too, like it was meant to be an adult movie but with visual substitution of the adult images by the ones for the kids. like two movies got spliced together badly.

I'm done rambling for now, but I'll be back...

JediTricks
09-05-2001, 08:22 AM
I don't know if Panaka was a "lazy coward", I think he was just a bit of a skeptical whiner. He sure seemed brave once the Neimoidians were in custody though. "You can kiss your trade franchise goodbye!"

THE Slayer
09-29-2001, 08:17 PM
I think the queen was supposed to make your skin crawl. Her accent didn't bother me, it kinda reminded me of a,, a queen. Did they really go through the planets core? Or did Nass just call it that? You know, like how we call things Downtown, they're not really down, we just call it that. Ok that's a bad example but I'm all dried up.

And I think if I was some 40 year old warrior monk I wouldnt get too excited either, I'd prolly act just like Qui. Now that's an apocolyptic future.

jedibear
10-01-2001, 11:57 PM
...I have to admit, the only time I felt myself wincing at that first viewing is when Jar Jar first spoke...."Exsqueeze me...." Ugh.

But after several viewings, the ole' gungun doesn't bother me that much now & I'm actually looking forward to seeing how he develops in AOTC.

Lobito
10-02-2001, 04:04 PM
Hmmm...the voice of the Neimoidians really sucked...i have no prob with Jar Jar though...the Jedi Council scenes were too short, hmmm Aurra Sing had just 1 second...and:

The way Darth Maul was taken down was the WORST thing in the movie, aside that its SW!!

ThomasLane
10-03-2001, 03:33 PM
Did Lucas originally plan to dub the Nemoidian dialogue in an alien language with subtitles and then change his mind? Their lips don't even come close to synching with their dialogue. I can't think of an alien species in any previous Star Wars movie that spoke English. Lucas always either used subtitles (because everyone understands Huttese) or had C3PO translate.

Oh wait, I just remembered, Admiral Ackbar and Yoda spoke English in the original triology. So there's a couple.

Lobito
10-03-2001, 03:52 PM
I think english is called basic in the SW language. Im not sure about that.

2-1B
03-24-2006, 02:26 AM
The first time I saw it, I thought it was perfect up until Yaddle came on screen and then let me down by not speaking. What a tease. Then I knew the movie sucked.

Also, when the idiots sitting around me at the midnight showing started cheering and screaming at the opening intro logo, I thought that put me in a salty mood. Unnecessary behavior.

El Chuxter
03-24-2006, 10:22 AM
I wanted a sex scene between Evan Piell and Yaddle.

2-1B
03-24-2006, 10:36 AM
I wanted a sex scene between Evan Piell and Yaddle.

Me too, but that would fit more under the thread "Phantom Edit dislikers, when did it FIRST go wrong for you?"

:grin:

JimJamBonds
03-24-2006, 12:03 PM
The first time I saw it, I thought it was perfect up until Yaddle came on screen and then let me down by not speaking. What a tease. Then I knew the movie sucked.

Also, when the idiots sitting around me at the midnight showing started cheering and screaming at the opening intro logo, I thought that put me in a salty mood. Unnecessary behavior.

Were you salty when the same thing happened in '02 and '05?

JediTricks
03-24-2006, 02:39 PM
The first time Caesar came on the forums exclaiming his undying love for everything involved with the prequels.

Patient Zero
03-24-2006, 02:49 PM
I use to dislike it because I was comparing it to the OT and the feelings I had about OT at the time that I saw them. Later I realized that I could never have feelings like those for a movie again because I'm no longer that wide eyed child. Ep 1 is a good movie and now I like it, but it's not groundbreaking like when the originals came out. You just can't really compare the two so you shouldn't try. Just accept it for what it is on its own for the time that it came out.