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View Full Version : WARNING! Darth Plagueis: A Spoiler FULL Discussion Thread WARNING! (except 1st post)



Tycho
01-15-2012, 07:40 PM
This is the Star Wars novel I have been waiting for! I hope it answers a lot of questions.

Penned by James Luceno, my personal favorite Star Wars author (Labrynth of Evil, his best SW book up until now).

I have not bought The Tragedy of Darth Plagueis yet. So I will not return to this thread until I pick it up (in less than an hour from the time I'm starting this thread) until I've read into the novel.

I may post my thoughts as I progress, before I finish the whole book -so sorry if I skip your posts so that I'm not spoiled by them myself, until I complete the book.

But this is a civil way of letting all record their first impressions of every profound reveal as it happens.

Then when you're DONE reading the entire book, go back and delve into what others are saying beyond this first post.

THE FOLLOWING IS SPECULATION, I'd like to see confirmed by the book. I may be wrong. I HOPE for the following:

1. The Sith's plan from Plagueis on was to take over the Republic from within.
2. Plagueis was a Muun (like San Hill) and knew an alien might not be elected, thus chose Sidious as his apprentice.
3. As a Sith alchemist, Sidiuos created Anakin - possibly using Palpatine's human DNA! Yup. Maybe they're related.
4. Obviously, Plageuis experimented on Shmi. He might have been a doctor in public life who said he was helping Shmi.
5. Darth Plagueis will have a real name, like Dr. Sonjay Gupta or something, just like Sidious is Palpatine.
6. Sith are supposed to kill their masters. Palpatine recruits Dooku for this. Ambushes and sends into exile, Anakin.
7. Palpatine kills Plagueis and takes over. Dooku is his apprentice.
8. To keep the Sith's ties secret, maybe even before Plagueis' death, Palpatine recruits Darth Maul and tattoos him Sith.
9. Darth Maul is only like Ventress - a wannabe, not as powerful as the Masters who weild Force lightning, etc.
10. Also, as a tattoo'd alien freak, there is no danger of Darth Maul running an Empire -the public won't accept Maul.
11. Palpatine is safe from being assasinated by Maul because he's weaker, not fully trained, and not a public figure.
12. In that Apprentice vs. Master game, Dooku gets the Separatist Army, Palpatine, the Clone Army
13. With Maul eliminated and Anakin resurfaced, Sidious plans to use Anakin (Vader) to kill Dooku (Tyranus)
14. Upon the verge of the birth of the Empire, these events happen in ROTS
15. Were Anakin not forced into a scary war-droid life-support system, as a war hero, he could lead the new Empire
16. The Empire would have an heir-apparent in its Sith Legacy with Darth Vader, publically Anakin Skywalker
17. Obi-Wan Kenobi comes along and screws up those grand plans....

Anyway, that's how I'd write it!

In a short while, I'm going to pick up this book and find out what Luceno did. He's good. I've got some pretty high expectations.

Below this post will be SPOILERS from any and all, including myself.

You've been WARNED!

My recommendation is to post without reading the rest of the posts until you've completed the book. Then no one is censored and no one is spoiled.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
01-19-2012, 12:24 AM
I got the book the day it came out and have read a little over 100 pages so far, and I really like it. I would suggest reading "The Tenebrous Way," a short story by Matthew Stover in the latest Star Wars Insider, before reading the book. It gives the story of Plagueis' master, Tenebrous, who also appears in the novel. The stories go well together. Spoilers ahead . . .

Plagueis' real name is Hego Damask. It's not just an origin story for Plagueis or Sidious, but of much of the saga itself. There's a lot of politics and scheming, as the bankers on Muunilinst control a lot of the commerce and thus power of the galaxy (such as Gardulla's bid to take over Tatooine, the Trade Federation's influence in the Senate, and the royal elections on Naboo). Even with that angle, it's still quite compelling, or perhaps because of that.

I think I need to go read now. :D

El Chuxter
01-19-2012, 01:21 AM
Crap. This one snuck out.

Just placed a hold with the library. The book was "in processing," so I should, theoretically, be able to pick it up tomorrow.

Bel-Cam Jos
01-21-2012, 10:22 AM
Well, I actually bought this one (gift cards, membership, 40% cover), but have yet to begin it. Won't look at any posts here until I'm done.

"Did you ever hear the Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise? It's a Sith legend...."

JimJamBonds
01-22-2012, 06:18 AM
Well, I actually bought this one (gift cards, membership, 40% cover), but have yet to begin it. Won't look at any posts here until I'm done.



You mean besides the ones already in this thead? :hopelessness:

Bel-Cam Jos
01-22-2012, 11:03 AM
Still not reading this thread yet (only 60-some pages in), but it's #5 on the hardcover bestseller list (that's high for a SW book these days).

JimJamBonds
01-22-2012, 10:07 PM
Still not reading this thread yet (only 60-some pages in), but it's #5 on the hardcover bestseller list (that's high for a SW book these days).But still postin' in it! :snarky:

Tycho
01-23-2012, 06:12 PM
Well, I've not finished reading this thread, but I thought I'd confirm what of my speculation was right thus far.

Then we'll have real SPOILERS in the spoiler thread instead of just conversation, hehe.

THE FOLLOWING IS SPECULATION, I'd like to see confirmed by the book. I may be wrong. I HOPE for the following:

And Thus far, I'm right about:

2. Plagueis was a Muun (like San Hill)

5. Darth Plagueis will have a real name, like Dr. Sonjay Gupta or something, just like Sidious is Palpatine.

(I glanced ahead of where I'm reading, and I was correct about this, but I forgot his real name - which is good - because I haven't actually read far enough that I should know for sure.)

6. Sith are supposed to kill their masters.

7. Palpatine kills Plagueis and takes over. (We know this from the movies.)

12. In that Apprentice vs. Master game, Dooku gets the Separatist Army, Palpatine, the Clone Army (movie fact)

13. With Maul eliminated and Anakin resurfaced, Sidious plans to use Anakin (Vader) to kill Dooku (Tyranus)
- seen in ROTS, but this book might confirm whether it was opportunistic of Sidious, or if it was his plan all along - and I mean BEFORE Qui-Gon Jin brought Anakin to the Jedi Temple. Did Sidious, and Plageuis for that matter, know about him? I don't think Dooku had heard of Anakin Skywalker until he showed up at the Jedi Temple in TPM.

14. Upon the verge of the birth of the Empire, these events happen in ROTS

15. Were Anakin not forced into a scary war-droid life-support system, as a war hero, he could lead the new Empire - well obviously that's how we get Darth Vader's iconic look in the movies, but how far back - even pre-TPM - was this a plan of Sidious' or especially Plageuis'?

16. The Empire would have an heir-apparent in its Sith Legacy with Darth Vader, publically Anakin Skywalker - only by ROTS was that Sidious' plan, as he explained it to Yoda during their duel on the big screen.

17. Obi-Wan Kenobi comes along and screws up those grand plans.... (we saw that in the movies - he trains Anakin and proves impossible to kill: Maul, Jango, Grievous, and even Dooku try on screen).

Some of my other speculation might also be correct, but I haven't read that far yet.

El Chuxter
01-27-2012, 02:39 AM
I'm not done yet, but HOLY CRAP, THIS BOOK IS HUGE!

I don't mean huge in terms of size, but in importance. Truthfully, we knew in early 2005, even without spoilers, how Episode III would go down (in broad strokes, at least), so I'd say it's even bigger than ROTS in terms of revelations and surprises.

The revelation about the true Sith Lords at the time of The Phantom Menace was so unexpected, I'm quite surprised Lucasfilm let them get away with it, even in this day and age of "Sure, bring back Maul for the cartoon, whatever."

Truth is, the events of this book have made me curious to see how Clone Wars figures into the big picture. Luceno patched over the massive incongruities in Maul's backstory quite deftly; everything from the Savage Oppress three-parter to Jude Watson's Episode I Journal: Darth Maul now fitting neatly into one story.

Tycho
01-28-2012, 02:58 AM
This is a spoiler thread and you can reveal anything Chux. I haven't had time to read more, but I would not be surprised if Darth Maul was NEVER a real Sith Lord.

It was always Dooku and Palpatine, wasn't it?

Has to be.

Unless if it's done very carefully, bringing in a new character now would be a lot very late.

I know the Syfo Dyas stuff is in there though - so there's another possibility. But I haven't read that far.

But go ahead and spoil it if you'd like.

El Chuxter
01-28-2012, 05:44 PM
Don't say I didn't warn you.

There were indeed two Sith Lords at the time of The Phantom Menace, a Master and an apprentice.

Darth Sidious was THE APPRENTICE! :eek: Well, up until what would be the last few minutes of the movie; almost exactly the same moment Maul gets bisected, in fact, as Sidious points out at the very end.

I read just about every Star Wars book published, and a huge chunk of the comics, up through I got disillusioned around the time Legacy started. There have been quite a few excellent Star Wars novels. I am not saying what I'm about to say very lightly at all.

This is the best Star Wars book I have ever read. Luceno wrote a book that clears up just about every single plot hole, inconsistency, and throwaway line in the prequel trilogy--even the true origins of Anakin (created by Plagueis, but not in the way we suspected). One line near the end actually even makes Anakin's sudden shift in ROTS make perfect sense!

All while casting the Sith not as villains, but as anti-heroes with a lack of conventional morals that the Jedi see as repugnant... and getting inside Palpatine's head for, I believe, the first time ever.

No joke, I want to pop in AOTC and ROTS (after blowing the dust off the cases, of course) because I know they'll make more sense now because there aren't dozens of unexplained inconsistencies.

On a completely unrelated note, how do you imagine Plagueis' voice sounds? San Hill had a rather ridiculous-sounding Southern accent, which I imagine is the Muun accent. As I imagine him having a deep, commanding voice, I'm thinking Johnny Cash. No kidding.

Bel-Cam Jos
01-28-2012, 05:55 PM
Only 12 chapters in, so I'm, not reading these posts yet. But two names of note (technically three, if you include my alter ego Bel-Cam Jos' "home planet" of Chadrila) have appeared: COSinga Palpatine (his daddy, relating back to Lucas' possible name for the Emperor) and action figure Janus Greejatus (aka Imperial Dignitary).

Tycho
01-30-2012, 06:01 AM
I know that James Luceno is a Star Wars literary genius.

He is by far my favorite writer. I'm further behind in my reading than Chux obviously is, but I'm glad to hear this book rocks so much!

I'm curious to see how Count Dooku fits in to all of the goings-on at the time of TPM, as well as Sypho-Dyas.

I hope that is addressed as well, but I can't imagine Luceno not utilizing the opportunity if he was given the approval to "go there."

I seriously wonder if Lucas had these details in mind, and it was related to Luceno, or if James was left to straightening George's plot omissions out on his own?

Luceno wrote Cloak of Deception, too - about Qui-Gon tracking the manipulations of the Trade Federation, so whom better than to keep the consistency of the Expanded Universe!

I think I should write Mr. Luceno a thank you note. Seriously. I've written to authors before. Once in a while, you get a response. But I can't imagine any not appreciating heart-felt praise.

In other RELATED news, "Darth Plagueis" is No. 4 on the NYTimes Best-Seller List, ahead of "The Girl Who Kicked The Hornets' Nest" and the latest Twilight book, and a at least one other mass-market pop-culture standard-bearer. Nice to see a Star Wars book doing so well in the mainstream. It just so happens to be THIS VERY BOOK that we're discussing.

Congrats to Luceno for probably writing the best-selling Star Wars book since Zahn and Stackpole's works, plus some of Luceno's own other Star Wars works, like Labrynth of Evil - a pre-ROTS contender for my favorite PT Star Wars book (actually competing with Cloak of Deception - another Luceno work).

It sounds like Darth Plagueis might stack up as No.1 though. Glad to hear it.

faker
01-30-2012, 08:08 PM
Only 12 chapters in, so I'm, not reading these posts yet. But two names of note (technically three, if you include my alter ego Bel-Cam Jos' "home planet" of Chadrila) have appeared: COSinga Palpatine (his daddy, relating back to Lucas' possible name for the Emperor) and action figure Janus Greejatus (aka Imperial Dignitary).

Another name dropped was Sate Pestage, the other Imp Dignitary. Sate seemed to have a bigger role in the book, so far as to have been more intimately aware of Palpatines abilities. It seemed like Janus was mentioned then left by the wayside.

I, too, enjoyed reading about Maul's diminished capacity as a Sith Lord.

I'm curious to know how close the working relationship was between Luceno and LFL about the story, and if the delay in publishing was due to a rewrite / reworking / tweaking.

Cloak of Deception was the lead-in to AotC wasn't it? I wish I had more time to go back and re-read some of these books.

As for Plagueis' voice, I can picture it as kind of like a Boss Hog (wait, but wasn't he a Gungan?) or a Roscoe P Coltrane.




faker = the REAL dr_evazan22

Tycho
01-31-2012, 08:14 AM
Cloak of Deception led into The Phantom Menace, actually.

Darth Sidious contacts Nute Gunray and tells him things will go his way if he obeys Sidious.

The Sith stir up pirates to attack the Trade Federation (like Nym - or whatever his name is).

Darth Maul works in the shadows to motivate the pirates and do small favors for Nute Gunray, though he never sees or hears of Darth Maul in this era. Apparently, Plagueis is still alive right now, and Sidious is the real apprentice. Dooku might be waiting in the wings, and Maul is only a patsy, but an incredible martial artist with strong but not completely developed Force abilities.

Meanhile, the Trade Federation demand protection for their ships in the hyperspace lanes.

The Republic has a deliberately weak Navy at this time. It was more a loose planetary alliance.

The corrupt Senate votes to allow the Trade Federation to buy battle droids and droid fighters to protect themselves. Some allowances for civilian ships to have heavy weapons are made. The Millennium Falcon was even armed by its owners in this era.

The issue of funding a Navy leads to a huge debate in the Senate = because....

"The taxation of trade routes is in dispute. Hoping to resolve the matter with a fleet of deadly battleships, the Trade Federation blockades the small planet of Naboo..."

Qui-Gon begins to work to resolve the problem by tracking the pirate ship Hawk Bat along with his young apprentice Obi-Wan Kenobi, at Chancellor Valorum's behest.

The Jedi must stop the assasination of the Trade Federation's board of directors. They mostly fail because they don't know they are going up against Darth Maul and he stays hidden. Plus there are many pirate gangs. In the meanwhile, of course Nute Gunray is left alive deliberately, so he'll be in charge, as Sidious promised him.

Darth Sidious is also Palpatine, the Senator from Naboo.

Darth Sidious instructs Nute Gunray to blockade Naboo, and the sympathy vote gets Palpatine elected Chancellor.

The Republic taxes pass (though Palpatine pretends he is against it - WHY the TF blockaded Naboo as Palpatine publically opposes them with Queen Amidala - but as Sidious he commands them. Very clever Sith Lord).

CLOAK OF DECEPTION is a must- read!!! It is one of Luceno's great works.

Qui-Gon Jinn is the main character that most of the story is experienced though.

Beast
02-01-2012, 03:40 PM
Tycho, you wondered earlier about how closely Lucas had his hand in this book. From what has been said elsewhere, he basically laid out all he details to James Luceno when they were preparing for the book. And kept in close contact with him. That's also why the inner flap of the dust jacket states that the book is OFFICIAL CANON. It's officially on the same canon level as the movies are.

Bel-Cam Jos
02-03-2012, 11:10 PM
Well, I can't give it Chuxter's award of Best Star Wars Book Ever, but it's quite good. I agree about tying up loose ends over the last several years in EU. This was a Who's Who in the SW universe: Sate Pestage, Janus Greejatus, W. Tarkin, Bail Antilles, A. Teem, Aks Moe, M. Amedda, Valorum, N. Gunray, D. Dofine, R. Haako, Cosinga Palpatine Jr., Padme Naberrie Amidala, Panaka, Sio Bibble, Qui-Gon Jinn, Obi-Wan, Anakin, Yoda, Mace, Jabba, Gardulla, Dooku, Darth Maul, Sifo-Dyas.

On to the SPOILERS below.




I had forgotten how the story began with a flashback-type scene. Palpy's origin was well constructed. The political scheming was dull at times, but I knew it was necessary to develop the characters and OT story. All the designs and comments from TPM mark perfect sense now; I did not find myself guessing at "what's next?" because Luceno brought in details piece-by-piece. I was disappointed by the lack of Shmi at all. Manipulating the Trade Federation was strong, and there's enough open for another novel of Sifo-Dyas and the clone army.

At least an 8.9 on the unofficial Bel-Cam scale.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
02-09-2012, 03:09 PM
I finally finished the other day. I have to say, it's probably my favorite Star Wars book as well. I was glad that it revealed Sidious as the true manipulator in the end, as it should be. I always like how Luceno works in aspects from the films and other EU to tie it together, especially his multiple nods to The Clone Wars series here. I was very surprised that Plagueis was alive so long - it certainly puts an interesting spin on the events of TPM without undermining them in any way.


On a completely unrelated note, how do you imagine Plagueis' voice sounds? San Hill had a rather ridiculous-sounding Southern accent, which I imagine is the Muun accent. As I imagine him having a deep, commanding voice, I'm thinking Johnny Cash. No kidding.
Say whaaa? San Hill didn't have an accent. None of the Separatists had a Southern accent. Hell, nobody in the films had a Southern accent. Hill's voice is high and nasal - "The Banking Clan will sign your treaty." I imagined him being played by Corey Burton, perhaps somewhat like Cad Bane once he has his respirator.


Tycho, you wondered earlier about how closely Lucas had his hand in this book. From what has been said elsewhere, he basically laid out all he details to James Luceno when they were preparing for the book. And kept in close contact with him. That's also why the inner flap of the dust jacket states that the book is OFFICIAL CANON. It's officially on the same canon level as the movies are.
That's actually not quite true.

From his Facebook conversation (saved on TheForce.net (http://theforce.net/books/story/James_Luceno_Facebook_QA_Recap_143276.asp):

Q: I know GL doesn't have much – if anything – to do with how the EU works, but he does get involved with some of the major stuff, like his approval for Chewie's death. I’m curious how high up the chain you had to go in regards to the in-universe timing of the end of Plagueis?
A: As I've said in other forums, GL was the one who said that Plagueis should be a Muun, and that Plagueis should have an "accident" that forces him to wear a mask. GL also weighed in on other matters, though mostly through Howard Roffman -- then president of LucasArts -- with whom I worked most closely.

There's more elaboration from TFN's own interview (http://theforce.net/books/story/Interview_Plagueis_Author_James_Luceno_142844.asp) :

How closely did you work with Lucas Licensing on Darth Plagueis? How much did George get involved? What advice did he give you?

George was involved in the early stages. When the book was first proposed, I wrote to him and asked whether there was any reason why Plagueis couldn't be a non-human, and he wrote back that Plagueis could be a Muun and sent me some artist renderings of the character. From that point on, everything was approved, as they're saying, “at the highest level.” I worked most closely with George's right-hand man at Lucas licensing, Howard Roffman. It was a strange way to go about the book, because I kind of had to bypass both Del Rey and the usual editorial staff at Lucasfilm and work directly with Howard over the course of what amounted to about a year of preparation.

I submitted many, many versions of the outline until we finally reached consensus on where we wanted to go with the book. The marketing text about “this is canon at the highest level” – I suppose that's true, that a lot of the stuff came from the very top levels of Lucasfilm. Everything was approved at that high level. I had to make the assumption that Howard was speaking directly with George about a lot of this stuff. I didn't have any meetings directly with George, but it seemed like a lot of the approval was coming through him to Howard. I was not privy to all of the things that happened behind the scenes.

Tycho
02-09-2012, 03:29 PM
Well, I think it was first revealed in a Dark Horse graphic novel, or Visionaries art collection - something of that nature, that Darth Plagueis was a Muun like San Hill.

No, I don't think he was weasel-like such as the way the San Hill character behaves at all. Though as Magister Hego Damask, I bet he's more placating than as Darth Plagueis for certain.

But if Luceno made Plagueis anything other than a Muun, they'd have an inconsistency on what's come before. After that, they could have said Plagueis was even a Talz, and used a Muun as a decoy so no one even knew what species he was. Of course, he could disguise himself as a Talz with a big white fur coat (J/K - or not so much).

The theme of the very wealthy being the true Sith Lords continues: Dooku, Palpatine, Damask. It makes Vader more of a pawn, as was Maul.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
02-12-2012, 02:00 AM
Well, I think it was first revealed in a Dark Horse graphic novel, or Visionaries art collection - something of that nature, that Darth Plagueis was a Muun like San Hill.
According to Wookieepedia, his species was first revealed when the book was announced, way back in June 2006. He appeared with his back turned in a non-canon Tag & Bink story, and was first pictured in Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force, with the image of a cloaked Plagueis sitting while a young Sidious trains in the foreground.

So, in short, it was Lucas' idea, and first announced in 2006.

Tycho
02-14-2012, 12:34 AM
It may have been Lucas' idea (probably was) but I think that Star Wars Visionaries book came out (from Dark Horse) even earlier than 2006 but post 2002 and the start of the Clone Wars (Gennedy effort, etc.) because I think Plagueis had something to do with the Mandalorians capturing and experimenting on Durge. Plagueis also took a very early interest in cloning, which is upheld in the Luceno book, as Magister Damask is quite involved with his lab work.

This is a great book!

DarthQuack
02-29-2012, 07:18 PM
Just finished it myself! Loved it. Very enjoyable, loving being inside Palpatine's head for the first time. With giving up Facebook and Twitter for lent, it's given me more time to enjoy reading and catching up on SW novels too. :) Onto another one!

El Chuxter
02-29-2012, 07:31 PM
I gave up sex with hippos for Lent. It was a huge sacrifice.

Bel-Cam Jos
02-29-2012, 07:50 PM
Just don't give up high-fiving Conquistadores...

Tycho
03-01-2012, 12:23 PM
I loved the idea of there being more than 2 Sith.

Each "true" Lord is training a replacement apprentice for when the Master or the official Apprentice can be eliminated if they are not strong enough.

It also seems you have to be rich to be a Sith if you have to spend all your time as the next Master figuring out your old dead master's secrets if you don't know everything before you kill him.

I'm sure the Holocrons help though. Otherwise Sith tradition and plotting would be lost every time a new Master rose to power.

I will see if I'm right: Palpatine had Dooku all along - even during TPM - and Maul was an attack dog like Ventress and Savage Opress, or like what Dooku tried to turn Quinlan Vos into while Palpatine was working on Anakin.

Also, I think Anakin was Plagueis' project all along - probably to replace Palpatine if need be. Obviously Palpatine coopted Anakin for his own use.

This brings up interesting story ideas for the Dark Times: could Palpatine have been preparing another apprentice to replace Vader? There should be more stories for the novels and comics concerning this and Vader eliminating them. Obviously not Mara Jade - and I don't think she was ever strong enough to be turned to the Dark Side.

Vader was working on Garen (Starkiller) from The Force Unleashed however - before he knew about Luke - who obviously was Vader's natural choice by ESB.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
03-01-2012, 06:49 PM
It may have been Lucas' idea (probably was) but I think that Star Wars Visionaries book came out (from Dark Horse) even earlier than 2006 but post 2002 and the start of the Clone Wars (Gennedy effort, etc.) because I think Plagueis had something to do with the Mandalorians capturing and experimenting on Durge. Plagueis also took a very early interest in cloning, which is upheld in the Luceno book, as Magister Damask is quite involved with his lab work.
You're actually mixing up a few of the stories. Visionaries (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Visionaries) was released in 2005 (on April 2, along with most of the other ROTS tie-ins). It includes 10 stores by concept artists from Revenge of the Sith, so I assume the book was created after the film's concept art phase was done. The story "Prototypes" is about Durge and features Mandalorians as his enemies. There are no Muuns to be found. The story "The Eyes of Revolution" tells the tale of how Grievous came to be a cyborg - his ship is blown up by Count Dooku, and he is taken by Banking Clan representatives (Muuns, including San Hill) to be reconstructed in both body and mind (this story is contradicted by Grievous' own accounts in The Clone Wars - though Visionaries was never meant to be canon, and it's unclear whether Grievous is just boasting anyway). So Muuns are involved, but Plagueis is not. Although it's not canon, this story takes place after Dooku is a Sith and the Separatist movement has started, so it would have to be after TPM, meaning Plagueis would be dead at the time.

Tycho
03-08-2012, 10:00 AM
I loved the part when Palpatine murders his parents!

The attention and respect Luceno pays to Star Wars details like Sienar, Tarkin, Pestage, Greejatus, the Hills, Wat Tambor, Kuat, etc. is amazing. For this and many more reasons, he is my favorite SW author!

So there were 30 Sith Lords since Darth Bane (or including him).

I would love to see a comprehensive list!

That means there was a new apprentice, killing his master, about every 33 years.

Palpatine's rule as Darth Sidious matches this perfectly, but he only held power as the Emperor for 23 years (ROTS to ROTJ) - Luke Skywalker's exact lifespan until ROTJ where he and Leia were 23 years old.

And BABY MAUL!

I thought Darth Maul's real name would be *something* Opress - if Savage Opress is his brother.

Also, Maul was supposed to be an Iridonian Zabrack. Now he is retconned to be a Dathomirian Zabrack?

So which is the species? Zabrack? Eeth Koth and Agen Kolar were Zabrack Jedi.

Does that mean they were born on Dathomir as well?

If so, are all horned headed beings of that genome born on Dathomir called Zabrack?

And are the same beings born on their planet of origin called Iridonians?

Why would a baby be tattoo'd?

I thought the Sith tattoos were something Palpatine had done to Maul so he couldn't ascend to being a public figure because he'd look too scary?

As Maul will just be used as an assassin and Plagueis is the Master, Sidious, the Apprentice, I don't think Maul will ever be a Sith Lord, officially. I'm waiting for Tyranus to enter the story. I think Dooku was involved from at least as long as TPM, not just before AOTC.

The book is getting really good!

Because I'm doing my own writing, it is taking me longer than ever to read.

Bel-Cam Jos
03-10-2012, 08:56 AM
I am a few chapters into Ryder Windham's The Wrath of Darth Maul YA book (in the same style as the previous Obi-Wan, Luke, and Vader ones), and there are some Sidious/child Maul moments that have been quite interesting. I'll wait to finish the whole book before passing judgment. But there is a comment about having been born on Iridonia and found on Dathomir; he is about three years old, with tatoos, at the start of the flashback in this book.

Tycho
03-13-2012, 10:00 PM
I finished the book and it was awesome!

I love how Dooku and Syfo-Dyas were woven in and how Palpatine evaluated the usefulness of each of them, not to mention Darth Maul.

It was either random or implied - and I missed it - how Darth Plageuis created Anakin.

Unless there was something between the lines, it seems to have been an accidental affect of Plageuis' experiments.

Dooku said he did not believe Anakin was the Chosen One. He might not have known about Plageuis' experiments at that time before he was a Sith. But he did say that Qui-Gon believed Anakin was the Chosen One. Obviously Master Jinn did not get that from his former master, since Dooku wasn't into prophesy.

Palpatine does not see Anakin as the Chosen One either, or else why turn him and not destroy him? - especially when Anakin became Vader and was vulnerable for a time. The boy was dangerous to both sides in the Jedi vs Sith conflct.But I suppose Sidious could use Vader in his missions and test him - like having him try to recover the plans to the Death Star.

Anyway, I was right: Darth Maul was just being used as a butcher / assassin and was not a true Sith Lord in the sense of how dangerous he could become to Sidious. Now Darth Tyranus was a threat indeed, what with the possibility that Grievous, Ventress, Durge, Bane, and his battle droid army could actually win.

More details will come to me later.

Loved this book!

James Luceno is the best Star Wars author! - Oh, and his attention to the Star Wars EU's detail is incredible. All the references to what was going on in the Darth Maul comic, Acts of War comic, Cloak of Deception, and Sabateur, Shadow Hunter, etc. He did a great job.

Bel-Cam Jos
03-21-2012, 02:32 PM
I am now done with Ryder Windham's The Wrath of Darth Maul YA book (in the same style as the previous Obi-Wan, Luke, and Vader ones), and there are some Sidious/child Maul moments that have been quite interesting. I'll wait to finish the whole book before passing judgment. But there is a comment about having been born on Iridonia and found on Dathomir; he is about three years old, with tatoos, at the start of the flashback in this book.I would recommend this book, now that I've finished it, not because of its excellent writing style and construction (although, for a young adult book, it does fit those qualities) but because it fills in and ties up several plot holes in various stories (TPM film and novel, DP novel, current CW cartoon, DM: Shadow Hunter novel and Sabotuer [sp?] short story, DM Journal), especially the extra dialogue added before and after the TPM film lines. Apparently Maul was just about 20 years old in TPM, if I traced the aging properly.