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View Full Version : The surprising (or not) reduction in future vehicle sizes.



JEDIpartner
09-07-2012, 08:03 AM
Josh, Arnie Carvalho and I had a lively discussion, after a day at Celebration VI, about how the smaller scale would actually be great if you were building a diorama on a two-foot shelf and needed to add perspective.

Seriously though, it surprises me on one hand because Hasbro is constantly giving us the "tooling costs" excuse in regards to increasing prices. So, why redesign the Jedi Starfighter, Republic Tank and the Slave I as well as any forthcoming vehicles if creating a new mould is so expensive? The nice lady at the Hasbro booth explained to me that they were trying to decrease the shelf footprint while at the same time being able to lower the price to under $20 (USD) for a ship. Great reasons, both of them. Still, wouldn't the initial costs be more due to the development of these new moulds? I guess I find it a little odd since it seems like reusing existing moulds would actually be cheaper.

At the end of the day, these ships were not designed with me or any other collectors in mind. These are "para los ninos". I do hope that they find success with these ships and that kids start buying them. If not, this could affect the collector scale vehicles in the future.

I'm glad that Hasbro will continue to release the "collector's scale" ships as exclusives. The new ships come packaged in boxes that have little graphics that specifically state these figures are for use with Movie Heroes and Clone Wars figures, which I found interesting. To be honest, I think you will really need to cram the Movie Heroes figures into the cockpits in order to get them inside. 'Cos... Movie Heroes are just retired Vintage or Movie-styled action figures that are larger than the Clone Wars ones.

I do hope that Hasbro has success with these in that they will be priced to sell better to kids. I think they are doing something good by giving kids the option to either get one vehicle or a mini-rig with two pack-in figures at the same price point.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
09-07-2012, 11:42 AM
I'm under the impression that these new molds were made partly so that they would be easier to produce in the factories, since labor costs are going up and they need to find ways to keep overall costs down. And even though these are new molds, they're in fewer pieces than previous versions of these vehicles have been. I just assume that they looked at the costs and ultimately this was going to be cheaper in the long run.

Seeing the vehicles in person at CVI, the Jedi Starfighter and Republic Fighter Tank didn't really strike me as being too undersized. The only real giveaway on the Jedi Starfighter is the smaller droid head - it's halfway between the scale of the figures and the scale of the ship, according to Mark Boudreaux. The Slave I, well, obviously there's a big difference there, but we already have several options for this ship (and evidently a Vintage-packaging ESB version coming next year).

I'm interested in seeing how this line progresses. Since collectors already have more accurate versions of all three of these ships, I bet many will just ignore them, but I wonder how many all-new ships are planned. I've seen a good amount of nerd rage on this topic already, since anytime anything is done for kids, people flip out. Still, $20 is far better than the $30 pricepoint they hit this year, so SOMETHING had to be done.

bigbarada
09-07-2012, 01:07 PM
Yeah, I think if Hasbro had just dropped the price of the existing ships, then it would have made it more difficult to make new ships in the old $20 format.

For instance if consumers get used to paying $20 for ships that were $25-$30 last year, then what's Hasbro supposed to do when they want to make a new ship in that scale? They couldn't charge only $20 for that toy and still make back their investment; but consumers are not going to accept one toy being priced at $20 and another toy, that's about the same size, being priced at $30.

So, I believe starting again with all-new $20 vehicles will ensure that Hasbro is still free to make new vehicles in the old scale without undercutting their own profits.

JediTricks
09-10-2012, 09:15 PM
Hasbro's already decreased the shelf footprint by making retailers not want to order Class 2 vehicles anymore - first by putting out nothing but boring revisits nobody was asking for, and now by putting out hollow cheap junk. Hasbro raised the price on the classic vehicles because of higher costs and poorer sales, but why were there poorer sales? Was it perhaps Hasbro pumped out the SAME OLD JUNK OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER?!? They utterly wasted the Vintage-style packaging for vehicles - sure, maybe a few collectors wanted the SAME OLD ROTS JEDI STARFIGHTER they had gotten 6 times over already in that packaging, but the majority of everybody else was bored with it. Where's the T-16 Skyhopper, where's the new A-wing at main retail? Here's a list of vehicles that would have worked in that packaging IMO:
A-wing
T-16 Skyhopper
Skiff
TIE Interceptor
Hailfire Droid
Grievous' Starfighter
V-wing

All great vehicles, all $20/$30 mainline class 2 fleet, a wide variety of sources. So what do they give us instead? Number 37 of the Jedi Starfighter, and the V-19 Torrent and the AT-AP and Sir Not Appearing in this Line (aka the Naboo Fighter). And that V-19 Torrent didn't sell the first time because it's not a great sculpt and it's a really bad paint job, so do they give it a spiffy new paint job to move product? HELL NO! They put an image on the box of the boring white plastic turd it is! And we have the green AT-AP - a vehicle that nobody was terribly impressed with, so they slap a green paint job on it to make sure any possible interest is sapped out of a Vintage-style packaged release. Why? To pander outside the base, I'll guess.

bigbarada
09-10-2012, 10:30 PM
I would have bought that AT-AP if it had been released in the correct colors, but I had no use for an EU paint job and the vehicle itself is a little underwhelming with it's unarticulated legs.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
09-10-2012, 10:49 PM
Yeah - the AT-AP's color scheme was first released in The Clone Wars line a few years back; I might have bought another one if it were in movie colors, or a new scheme.

They absolutely shouldn't have put out seven old molds (well, six completely old molds and a tank that they'd put out almost every year for a decade with a new cockpit) to start the line this year, but the fact that they already started out at $30 shows that they were going to have to go with that price anyway. I'm not sure if even new molds could have sustained the line at that price, but yeah, the re-releases killed it for sure.

mtriv73
09-11-2012, 12:29 PM
Where's the T-16 Skyhopper, where's the new A-wing at main retail? Here's a list of vehicles that would have worked in that packaging IMO:
A-wing
T-16 Skyhopper
Skiff
TIE Interceptor
Hailfire Droid
Grievous' Starfighter
V-wing

All great vehicles, all $20/$30 mainline class 2 fleet, a wide variety of sources. So what do they give us instead? Number 37 of the Jedi Starfighter, and the V-19 Torrent and the AT-AP and Sir Not Appearing in this Line (aka the Naboo Fighter). And that V-19 Torrent didn't sell the first time because it's not a great sculpt and it's a really bad paint job, so do they give it a spiffy new paint job to move product? HELL NO! They put an image on the box of the boring white plastic turd it is! And we have the green AT-AP - a vehicle that nobody was terribly impressed with, so they slap a green paint job on it to make sure any possible interest is sapped out of a Vintage-style packaged release. Why? To pander outside the base, I'll guess.

Don't forget the newest snowspeeder sculpt in different paint apps. I'd buy Wedge's and Zev's speeders no matter what kind of box they came in.

I don't think I'd rebuy anything I already have just because of the vintage box (in fact, I didn't) so I don't think a lot of the ones you listed would do too much better than the ones they picked to re-release.

Are you talking about a retool for the T-16 or a straight repack of the very dated piece of work we got over a decade ago?

The skiff would have gone great with the deleted scene wave and if the deco was improved or minor retooling was done to improve it, I would have bought that.

I'm not buying another TIE interceptor until it gets bigger wings.

Hailfire, Greivous starfighter and V-wing fall under the category of have it and don't care anymore. I was so disappointed in the articulation of the AT-AP that I would buy another one no matter what.

The new smaller vehicles are cute and I'm sure my sons will want a few. They'll be easier for them to play with than the larger counterparts, but I have no interest in them for my collection. I guess that's really the point anyway, these are toys for kids. Kids don't care nearly as much about scale and minute details as we do so the lower price point may just help save the vehicle portion of the line. Rereleasing the same old stuff in a different box certainly won't do it.

As for the Naboo starfighter, I have 2 (that I paid $10 or $15 above retail for) and they're awesome.

JediTricks
09-11-2012, 02:00 PM
They released the Snowspeeder in Vintage box as a Target-exclusive, when I created my list that made it unlikely to re-release so soon so I left it out, but you're right, they had 2 packages running at once, they could have released it in non-Vintage packaging again, it's a really nice piece and they have a Snowspeeder Luke on pegs even.

I'm not talking about a remold on the T-16, the original isn't all that bad but more importantly it's simply not vital enough to Star Wars to warrant a retooling budget use - new materials would help with the wing joints though. A new deco would be nice though, it uses that period's speckled plastic which isn't that great and also is pretty soft. I would think there's a lot of collectors who didn't get the POTF2 T-16 back in the day because they jumped in later when the line got better-looking.

Bigger TIE Interceptor wings mean bigger pricetag, I'm trying to get product that average kids AND collectors might be into which are better than the junk Hasbro actually pushed out at us.

Basically, I think the health of the line is up to making smart repack choices when necessary, not just relying on the same mold OVER AND OVER, especially when it's already hit saturation and is boring to begin with.

bigbarada
09-12-2012, 10:44 PM
I'm not buying another TIE interceptor until it gets bigger wings.

Judging by photos of the model, I think the wings on the toy are actually too large if anything. At least too long from front to back.

JediTricks
09-18-2012, 02:42 PM
Judging by photos of the model, I think the wings on the toy are actually too large if anything. At least too long from front to back.The gentleman from Hilsboro is correct, too long front-to-back.

Tycho
09-20-2012, 01:05 PM
Will we finally get a gungan submarine now? what about the Gian landspeeder? the jedi airspeeder?

JediTricks
10-30-2012, 05:48 PM
Anybody seen the comparison from the previous Republic Tank to the new one in this unboxing gallery? http://www.sandtroopers.com/sandwatch/hasbro/20121023/index.html
I am OUT, to hell with this line Hasbro, that's tiny garbage. That's a mini-maxi-rig, only with even less fun.

Tycho
10-31-2012, 06:32 AM
I'm thinking my Gungan Sub I want will not work in this line.

I'm not buying anything I saw pictured there.

The airspeeders that Obi-Wan and Anakin use in ROTS could work at this size and "fun level."

A Utopau fighter might as well.

No -for this size - for Dooku's solar sailor.

JediTricks
10-31-2012, 03:17 PM
A Gungan Sub at this tiny scale would basically be a 1-man cockpit and some snap-on fins.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
10-31-2012, 04:29 PM
A Gungan Sub at this tiny scale would basically be a 1-man cockpit and some snap-on fins.
They would never do something so wacky -

Oh, wait. Never mind. (http://www.rebelscum.com/episodeIinvgungansub.asp)

Darth Metalmute
10-31-2012, 11:39 PM
Anybody seen the comparison from the previous Republic Tank to the new one in this unboxing gallery? http://www.sandtroopers.com/sandwatch/hasbro/20121023/index.html
I am OUT, to hell with this line Hasbro, that's tiny garbage. That's a mini-maxi-rig, only with even less fun.

Good Lord, do these come with a 4-piece Chicken Nuggets and Fries?

Tycho
11-01-2012, 01:28 AM
A Gungan Sub at this tiny scale would basically be a 1-man cockpit and some snap-on fins.

Yeah, I was saying I did not want one made in that scale. It must fit Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon, and that other guy with the big ears and long tongue. - hopefully in the same cockpit, but if they fit them in each "bubble" (the other two on the actual bongo were used for cargo) I could live with it, since it's not likely a high demand vehicle.

TPM's 20th anniversary is in 2019. If Hasbro has renewed the license (it expires in 2018), then maybe they could go back to TPM then. That's SIX (6) years from now and the current TPM glut. Episode One has proven itself to be the worst sales generator amongst the 6 films.

Also, Episodes 7 and 8 will have been out with toy lines of their own by then, I'm sure...

Anyway, for the 20th (or the 25th anniversary for TPM in 2024), we could look for -

-a full-size Gungan Sub (they did the MTT this time)
-the Republic cruiser Radiant IV (with removeable CW armaments for kids to play with)
-some way of doing the Trade Federation (cargo) Battleship
-the Gian Landspeeder (armored, covered, more weapons than the Flash Speeder)
-one or two different aliens' podracers with action features, timed for issue with the re-release of Anakin's and Sebulba's again **

** this is 6 to 11 years from now. New fans will not have had the chance to get these save for eBay.^^

^^I think the second-hand trading of these vehicles on eBay diminishes the market for this stuff in the stores. And I just checked: You can get Sebulba's podracer for the 3 3/4" figures for right around $20. With the shipping, it comes out at about where the store prices are at for these things right now. But you can get the original Episode One packaging. (some idiot thinks they're going to sell it for $56!)

Meanwhile, they can re-release the usual TPM stuff like N1s, the Royal Starship, the Vulture Droid Fighters, etc. - maybe the Sith Infiltrator if they don't upgrade it.

Anyway, we have a ton of threads about our dream vehicles (most not forgetting the Sailbarge) but I just thought I'd focus on the least desired movie toy line: Episode One.

I just do not like it when they spend more money on retooling or completely remaking ships I already own.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
11-01-2012, 11:48 AM
TPM's 20th anniversary is in 2019. If Hasbro has renewed the license (it expires in 2018), then maybe they could go back to TPM then. That's SIX (6) years from now and the current TPM glut. Episode One has proven itself to be the worst sales generator amongst the 6 films.
According to Derryl, their contract currently goes through 2020. I'm assuming (or at least hoping) they'll extend it at least through the release of Episode IX, which could be anywhere from 2019 to 2021.

Tycho
11-01-2012, 12:44 PM
I like Daryl a lot.

The man takes the time to talk to all the fans and the websites and HE IS A FAN.

He knows everyone that comes up to him will say "Sailbarge!" and that the very same day we finally get it, we'll be saying "Blockade Runner" or "Star Destroyer!" - and then I'll come up with a fan petition for a Nyrat Agira action figure signed by all the people inelligible to vote in Chicago - probably because they're already dead or something.

And Darryl will probably give a politically correct answer, but with his fandom on his own shoulder, go back to the SW Team at Hasbro and say, "Know what? I was thinking about including a Nyrat Agira figure with a 10 foot long Star Destroyer for next year. What do you guys think we could produce that for?"

And it doesn't really get put on a "Never-in-a-Million-Years-Because-We-Don't-Care-List" but instead, at least gets on the backpage of product ideas for a company that really interacts with and cares about what its customers want.


That's cool!

From the time we got the Cantina Bartender on, I haven't doubted that the company handling our hobby is really special.

I don't want to see it go to Disney Toys or anything like that.

I'm not sure who made the Starspeeder 2000 (JediTricks?) but it is an excellent product nevertheless. However, it was made to interact with Hasbro's figures and you have to love the respect paid to what we already have in our collection. A collection that now includes Ephant Mon and Herme Odle amongst other figures we might have thought would never get done!

JediTricks
11-02-2012, 04:48 PM
They would never do something so wacky -

Oh, wait. Never mind. (http://www.rebelscum.com/episodeIinvgungansub.asp)Heh heh, that at least came with a new figure. :p


Good Lord, do these come with a 4-piece Chicken Nuggets and Fries?Ha! You got a genuine out loud laugh from me on that one.


Yeah, I was saying I did not want one made in that scale. It must fit Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon, and that other guy with the big ears and long tongue. - hopefully in the same cockpit, but if they fit them in each "bubble" (the other two on the actual bongo were used for cargo) I could live with it, since it's not likely a high demand vehicle.

TPM's 20th anniversary is in 2019. If Hasbro has renewed the license (it expires in 2018), then maybe they could go back to TPM then. That's SIX (6) years from now and the current TPM glut. Episode One has proven itself to be the worst sales generator amongst the 6 films.

Also, Episodes 7 and 8 will have been out with toy lines of their own by then, I'm sure...

Anyway, for the 20th (or the 25th anniversary for TPM in 2024), we could look for -

-a full-size Gungan Sub (they did the MTT this time)
-the Republic cruiser Radiant IV (with removeable CW armaments for kids to play with)
-some way of doing the Trade Federation (cargo) Battleship
-the Gian Landspeeder (armored, covered, more weapons than the Flash Speeder)
-one or two different aliens' podracers with action features, timed for issue with the re-release of Anakin's and Sebulba's again **TPM is not well-thought of, and the Gungan Sub interacts with nothing but people and fish, and it's in no way aggressive, so I can't see them putting a lot of resources into it, it's not going to be a big $70 ship the way the Y-wing Bomber was.


^^I think the second-hand trading of these vehicles on eBay diminishes the market for this stuff in the stores. And I just checked: You can get Sebulba's podracer for the 3 3/4" figures for right around $20. With the shipping, it comes out at about where the store prices are at for these things right now. But you can get the original Episode One packaging. (some idiot thinks they're going to sell it for $56!)As long as Hasbro offers an upgrade to the product and makes it available in stores, they'll thwart ebayers undermining that business. It's only when Hasbro offers the same or lesser product, or offers it for an unsustainable price, that the aftermarket values take over.


I like Daryl a lot.Then consider spelling his name right, it's "Derryl".


I don't want to see it go to Disney Toys or anything like that.

I'm not sure who made the Starspeeder 2000 (JediTricks?) but it is an excellent product nevertheless. However, it was made to interact with Hasbro's figures and you have to love the respect paid to what we already have in our collection. A collection that now includes Ephant Mon and Herme Odle amongst other figures we might have thought would never get done!No, I didn't make the Starspeeder 1000.

Anyway, Disney doesn't have their own toy manufacturing, they use outside designers and vendors, and they don't use the same factory vendor every time. That's part of what separates the way Disney makes their theme park toys from how Hasbro makes their mainline stuff, Hasbro uses their own designers and stable of designers, and their existing stable of contracted factory vendors.

Tycho
11-04-2012, 12:33 AM
No, I didn't make the Starspeeder 1000.

Anyway, Disney doesn't have their own toy manufacturing, they use outside designers and vendors, and they don't use the same factory vendor every time. That's part of what separates the way Disney makes their theme park toys from how Hasbro makes their mainline stuff, Hasbro uses their own designers and stable of designers, and their existing stable of contracted factory vendors.

The Pirates of the Caribbean stuff got progressively better.

Meanwhile, the Starspeeder 1000 is very impressive. I don't own one yet, but I saw JediTricks.'

I see it having 2 uses in a mainstream movie / EU collection:

As a substitute (in use only) for the Twilight, with a crew of Obi-Wan, Anakin, Padme (adventure), R2, and C-3PO from the Rise of the Malevolence story arc from season 1 - when the group escapes General Grievous' new toy. That middle episode reminded me of the OT where the crew would be Han, Luke, Leia, and the droids plus Chewie (who escaped the Death Star together). There was no surrogate for Chewie in that episode (Ahsoka wasn't there - she and Rex were on the command ship).

Or as the freighter in AOTC - 'cause you KNOW Hasbro will never make that ship (at least the Twilight would be more likely). But you could put onboard Anakin (peasant), Padme (peasant), R2-D2, and an assorted bunch of the lesser dangerous aliens like the Saurin, but maybe not a Weequay and definitely not an Amanin. Hopefully Hasbro will make the 6 armed waiter droid. With more apendages than General Grievous, and more lines than FX-7, why not? Star Wars has aliens and DROIDS to make it different from GI Joe where Stormshadow and Snakeyes substitute for Jedi. So for a new droid - the 6 armed waiter droid.

I still hope I can buy the Starspeeder 1000 eventually, but if I really wanted to make it a Star Tours tourist diorama, I'd fill it with Simpsons and South Park figures. Better to substitute it for the Twilight or AOTC freighter in my opinion.

AND FINALLY, the Twilight doesn't look like it will be made, unless maybe that's where fan petition support gravitates AFTER we get Hasbro to make Jabba's Sailbarge. But the Blockade Runner and Star Destroyer (Republic but likely Imperial) and a Sandcrawler or Imperial Landing Shuttle (that launches speederbikes) could come into the picture. The Sailbarge is only naturally the first choice. I think the Invisible Hand or medical frigate from ESB will be on the backburner behind the other choices I mentioned.

It's good to dream anyway. It creates something to hope for in the hobby.

Wonder if Episodes 7, 8, and 9 will see the K-Wing Bomber (awesome fighter!), the V-wing, the E-wing, TIE Defender, Cloaking TIE Defender, JadeFire, Recon-X-wings, maybe even Yuuzhan Vong coral skippers? If they do any of that, we must have the K-Wing Bomber! It's very Star Wars-z and makes the ARC-170 pale in comparison (B-wings, too).