View Full Version : Obi-Wan's Father?
03-12-2002, 07:36 PM
We all know that Lucas is using a repeating themes idea for the prequels, and it led to the idea that Count Dooku could possibly be Anakin's Father, and that it would be revealed to him like it was to Luke in the Bespin scene. Something struck me as intresting in the trailer, that makes me consider a more shocking suprise may be instore. I do have some doubts about it, but I think it is worth talking about. I am quoting from memory, so I may have a few words wrong.
Ok, in Empire Strikes Back Darth Vader said to Luke: "Join me Luke, and with our combined strength we can put an end to this destructive conflict and rule the galaxy as father and son." Now in the new Trailer we have Dooku saying to Obi-Wan: "Join me Obi-Wan, and we can destroy the Sith."
Now we all know that Dooku was originally Qui-Gon's master. And it's been theroized that Qui-Gon wanted to have Anakin trained as a Jedi so bad, as a favor to his former master. But if Dooku really wanted Anakin trained, cause he was his father...why didn't Qui-Gon seek him out before, to have him trained. Or Dooku let word slip to informants of a possible midiclorian rich infant on Tatooine. Possibly because it's really not his son after all, that it could be the will of the force, or that his daddy was Palpatine.
Now, in the EU books...Obi-Wan originally washed out of the Jedi program, and only ended up being trained because Qui-Gon took him as a padawan. What if he actually did that as a favor to Dooku, because Dooku confided in Qui that Obi was his son, and that he was heartbroken to see that the council considered Obi-Wan not worthy of training. So, Qui-Gon took him as a Padawan as a favor for his old master.
So the possibility exists that Dooku is tempting Obi-Wan, someone who has already destroyed one sith lord, Darth Maul...into joining him and destroying them all. After Qui-Gon died in E1, Count Dooku left the order...cause he lost someone who was like a son to him, and wouldn't have been permitted to reveal that Obi-Wan is his real son, because the council forbids a child and their parents to have contact. And also Dooku cannot come forward that he is Obi-Wan's father, due to the fact instead of just leaving the Jedi Order of his own choosing, he would have been discredited and tossed out for breaking the "no love" rule.
So, what does everyone think. I don't 100% support this theroy, but I do consider it a possibilty of a suprise twist in E2.
MTFBWY and HH!!
Jar Jar Binks
03-12-2002, 11:54 PM
Verrrrrrryyyyyy Interesting Senator Binks. I don't hold much to any "Father" theories in the prequel trilogy, but this is as intriguing as the others.
03-13-2002, 12:09 AM
I like your thinking. This would be an amazing twist, but I don't think that this will be the case. Why you ask?
GL has realized that a lot of people were disappointed with TPM. People would see the similarity in this dilema to the one that Luke faces in ESB. GL would get criticized for not having any more original ideas (which IMO is true) and wouldn't want to deal with being asked about it in interviews.
03-13-2002, 12:42 AM
Originally posted by SithDroid
I like your thinking. This would be an amazing twist, but I don't think that this will be the case. Why you ask? GL has realized that a lot of people were disappointed with TPM. People would see the similarity in this dilema to the one that Luke faces in ESB. GL would get criticized for not having any more original ideas (which IMO is true) and wouldn't want to deal with being asked about it in interviews.
That's the whole point though, similar themes just altered slightly though, usually with differnt chooses and outcomes. That's why alot of people are expecting a Dooku/Anakin daddy reveal, and Lucas may decide to really suprise almost everyone by making it a Dooku/Obi-Wan daddy reveal. Either of them would be an intresting twist on the scene from Empire. I think the Dooku/Obi-Wan twist would be a real shock for the fan audience, since alot of them are expecting a Dooku/Anakin scene similar to the Vader/Luke scene. By the way, here is my post discussing Lucas' use of similar themes in the prequels as the OT.
I won't be disapointed, you know that I share the same theroy on the father of Anakin. Lucas talks about it in the Audio Commentary for the TPM DVD at 1:14:00. Check it out, he explains that they both are on similar paths, and that Luke does follow in his father's footsteps, just sometimes choosing a diffent path and making different choices.
Lucas: "What's kind of a theme and it re-occurs in Episode IV is that I purposefully develop themes and ideas and repeat them. It's very very clear in the two trilogy's that I'm putting the charecters in pretty much the in the same situations. Sometimes even using the same dialouge. So that the father and the son go thru pretty much the same experience. Obviously, Anakin takes a different road then his son takes, so that at some of these turning points, they go the other way. But it's been set up for you to almost expect that they will go...ya know, that Luke will follow in his father's footsteps because in alot of these Episodes they do follow each other. Which leads to a subtle influence which gives the audience a little expectation."
Lucas is using the repeating themes, just with different choices. Consider these two examples. Luke didn't wanna leave Tatooine, and leave his aunt and uncle. It took their death for him to decide to go. Anakin with some coaxing from Shmi left happily of his own free will. Another instance is the fact that Luke blew up the Death Star, but he knew what he was doing, where in Anakin's case it was an accident, possibly willed by the force that he destroyed the Droid control ship. So I wouldn't be suprised at all to see Lucas pull a suprise father reveal on Anakin, and Dooku is the only one that makes sense, really. So while Luke didn't strike down his father and take his place at the Emporer's side, Anakin will strike Dooku down, probably not until E3 and take his place at Sidious' side.
MTFBWY and HH!!
Jar Jar Binks
03-13-2002, 12:57 AM
Really interesting idea.
I have to agree though, I think that would be almost TOO similar for him to do in AOTC.
You never know though...:)
03-13-2002, 01:52 AM
Nice thinking JJB, but I just think the audience will not buy into it. I wouldn't. It just seems lame. It then makes no sense to make the prequels because they are essentially the same story as the OT, only a lot more cr*ppy. I can guarantee that if, hypothetically speaking, your theory is true, that a majority of the fans would be outraged and see how unoriginal GL is and immediately start complaining about it. Just like the whole Jango/Boba Fett situation. Boba Fett is a clone. I don't want to know this. I liked the fact that his past was a mystery. GL just created a story involving Boba/Jango Fett because he knew that Boba Fett was a FAN FAVORITE and thought that this would be an interesting subject to expand on. Some things are better left untouched. The same is evident in the whole midichlorian issue. GL thought that the fans would want to know more about the force and when he tired to expand on it with the midichlorian issue, HE FAILED HORRIBLY. The fans bashed the idea and GL has had to live with it ever since. Besides what is Boba/Jango Fetts role in EP II? Jango supposedly is creating an army of clones. Did GL really even need to use Jango/Boba Fett at all. Surely he could have found a BRAND NEW character for this. But as previously said GL doesn't have any more originality to him. The same is evident with TPM. Why does Anakin build C-3P0? There is no reason for that to be in the movie. It only leads to more plot conflict with the OT and it seems to me IMHO that GL was only thinking, "Hey, I wonder how many OT characters I can jam into these prequels so that the audience will automatically recognize them and feel right at home." Well I for one didn't buy it. And R2-D2 just "happened" to be the only droid that survived while repairing the Queen ship and just also happened to be "convieniently" placed on board. Give me a break. I hope AOTC makes up for TPM since GL has lost his "vision" of great storytelling.
03-13-2002, 02:50 AM
Great idea Jar Jar (no offence) but I'm so tried of all father discussions about Obi-Wan's father or Qui-Gonn's father or Anakin's father, why do Count Dooku or Palpatine have to have fathered Obi-Wan or Qui-Gonn or Anakin, please just stop the madness. The only father/son story that the prequels should deal with is Jango and Boba...
03-13-2002, 08:49 AM
I agree in that it would be a huge shock, but I wouldnt really like that idea. I think some things should just stay as they are.
We are already seeing Obi Wan and Anakin as young men and we are now able to see their pasts as alluded to in the OT.
The whole Dooku/Obi Wan and him being his father and all would just be too darn complicated. Why cant we just let Obi Wan be who he is and not need to know who his father is?
If we have to know this, then we have to go back and find out who everyone else's father is. I think the story should stay as it is.
It would definately be a huge shock, and would definately catch us off guard, but I really hope this isnt the case.
03-13-2002, 09:08 AM
Besides, isn't there enough drama in the "father/son" relationship between Anakin and obi-Wan? That's what this whole prequel trilogy was supposed to be about. Why clutter it up with obvious contrivances. I think the inherent drama of watching those two pull apart from each other is plenty.
I hope there is no father talk either. Anakin can get ****ed off and fall to the dark side for other -- more original -- reasons.
But Jar Jar is right -- Lucas said that stuff verbatim in the commentary. If he knowingly makes recurring themes, then I think it's a safe bet that SOMEONE will be revealed as Anakin's dad, and all that midichlorian crap will be for naught -- which IMO is unfortunate.
If he says that both trilogies should mirror each other, then we can already guess that:
Anakin will meet his surprise father ... get his hand cut off ... not finish his training, etc. And then he'll fight his father, cut HIS hand off, and then he'll kill him because he likes Palpy instead.
I just hope that more original concepts are used. As Rollo has said numerous times, much of what I am afraid we'll see is contrived.
03-13-2002, 12:19 PM
Anakin shouldn't find out who his father is. GWL needs some new ideas.
It would have been a bit different if he was living with his father, and a Sith revealed that she was his mother, but I won't get into that.
ANAKIN SHOULD REMAIN A BASTARD ('Bastard' meaning he doesn't have a father).
I guess I'm really torn on this one. I always thought there was something weird in Shmi's description, like she was hiding something.
I also felt like Qui Gonn knew something more than what he let on.
My original impression was that Palpatine was the father.
03-13-2002, 12:48 PM
My first impression was that Qui-Gon was the fater, but I'm not getting into that one again...
I think maybe Palpatine, but with no references to in in the OT i think it would be better that if his father was to be revealed it should be Count Dooku.
But I still don't think he should have one.
03-13-2002, 03:17 PM
Please just stop the whole father madness, PLEASE... :crazed:
03-13-2002, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by Co Jo-Da
Please just stop the whole father madness, PLEASE... :crazed:
Amen, brother Co Jo-Da. Amen.
03-13-2002, 04:29 PM
Althoguh I have ranted on about how a bad idea this is, I just thought of something. If GL is indeed using recurring themes then perhaps Palpatine is Anakin's Father. Could you see Palpatine saying to Anakin, "Join me and together we will rule the galaxy as father and son." I hope this isn't the case. Plus it would contradict TPM when Palpatine talks to Anakin at the end of the movie.
03-13-2002, 04:54 PM
Originally posted by SithDroid
"Join me and together we will rule the galaxy as father and son." I hope this isn't the case.
I sure hope that isn't the case as well, I still have a lot of faith in GL and I hope he doesn't turn towards the Dark Side, this way anyhow...
03-14-2002, 01:42 AM
Okay, in the OT we all doubted Luke's paternity and found out Vader was his father. Does Anakin know/care who fathered him? You would think this would be an emotional issue with him. Did his mother tell him how he mysteriously came about? So he's either thinking "I'm a freak" or "Who the hell's my dad". This could leave Shmi with some very interesting dying words. Personally, I think it would be cool if someone LIED to Anakin about being his father, and used this info to mess with his head. Similar to the original but different in that it's a lie this time around. Just a thought....
03-14-2002, 12:12 PM
Steingrabber, it's funny you should mention that because Tycho has a grand "Daddy Dooku" theory over in Episode III (spoilers) and he's articulated why he thinks Dooku should be Anakin's father. I brought up the idea that Dooku could tell Anakin he was his father, but be LYING.
Dooku tells Anakin he's his father in Episode II. Everybody believes him because we are thinking of the Vader/Luke connection from ESB. So when it turns out Dooku is lying (in Episode III) it comes as a shock to the audience who was prepared to Accept that Dooku was telling the truth.
Then, when watching the saga in order and coming to the Vader/Luke confrontation, you think back to Dooku's lie and assume that Vader is lying also, and BAM. Turns out he's telling the truth.
So the audience gets shocked twice.
03-14-2002, 02:44 PM
All this Father talk is ridiculous. Are all Fathers inherently bad or something? I think that would be an ongoing theme if any of what you are talking about takes place. Also, it makes the OT boring. "Oh, I get it! Just like Ani, Luke's father is the Pure Evil."
Seriously, this would make me give up the Prequels forever.
When Lucas said they were on the same path -- I think he meant having to confront the Dark Side --- not finding out they had less than perfect Fathers.
I very much doubt Lucas would be so dumb as to do this. Rick M, definitely. But I hope to god George isn't. Seriously, this would seriously diminish the impact of the famous scene in ESB.
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