View Full Version : Kevin Smith Rules!

08-27-2001, 02:06 PM
If George Lucas can be said to be the god of Star Wars, then Kevin Smith is a demigod. Not quite directly connected to the pantheon, but still inexorably attached and sharing some of the thunder. Kevin Smith is the Heracles to George Lucas' Zeus.
Sith Worm and I, along with our significant others and another couple went to an almost private screening of "Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back" on Sunday. Kevin Smith is truly at the height of his powers with his latest New Jersey romp. While "Dogma" is by far his master work, the point where he matured as a writer and director even beyond the seemingly lofty heights of "Chasing Amy", Smith returns to his pop-culture roots with "J&SBSB". And it wouln't be Kevin Smith without a truckload of Star Wars references. I will not spoil any of these lines and ask that replies to this thread be equally considerate about spoilers, but there is something there for every Star Wars fan. And it doesn't stop there! Smith refers (or nods to) Star Wars, The Land of the Lost, Twin Peaks, Scooby-Doo, Batman (TV Series), and at least a dozen other icons of recent nostalga throughout the film. And of course he neatly sews up his life's work by making obvious and overt nods to all four of his prior films. But be warned, this movie bears an R rating for a reason. In Kevin Smith fashion, he unabashedly seeks to offend every sensibility in the book, so if you are weak in that regard, you'd best save your money. Little offends or shocks me, and I would expect no less than Smith delivers, though I was rather surprised at how far he went at times. It's like South Park on speed!

08-27-2001, 02:57 PM
I have to agree. All of the movies are incredible, as is this one. Excellant work, and extremely funny movie. I love the Greedo line.

08-27-2001, 03:07 PM
I rather enjoyed the "Don't F*** with the Jedi Master" line myself. :D

Mike Troxell
08-27-2001, 03:16 PM
I completely missed the TP nod (and being a TP buff, that's kind of odd). What was it?

"That was an incredibly daring escape!"

Obi-Dan Kenobi
08-27-2001, 10:52 PM
I was unable to get to this movie this weekend, but it is definitely at the top of my must-see list. Lucas should get Smith to help him write dialogue. I'm sure he could come up with some lines that would live up to "Who's scruffy looking?" I mean, sure he's all vulgar in his own movies, but I think he'd be very respectful if he got to work on Star Wars. Don't get me wrong though, I know it'll never happen.

08-28-2001, 09:27 AM

Thanks for posting to my Jay & Silent Bob thread. The nod to Twin Peaks was so subtle as to be very easily missed, even by the greatest fans. I don't want to spoil too much for those who have not seen it, so avert your eyes if you are planning to see this film soon...


When Marshall Willenholly returns to the Utah Sheriff's office after the obvious overature to The Fugitive, the Sheriff and his deputies are enjoying a snack of delicous doughnuts. The keen observer will note that the doughnut box is the signature pink color those in Twin Peaks.

Sith Worm
08-28-2001, 11:46 AM
I have never laughed so hard before I found myself clapping and cheering out loud this was by far the best, thank you, Kevin Smith. "Smoochie Boochie!"

Mike Troxell
08-28-2001, 09:18 PM
Thanks Cole!

Rollo Tomassi
08-30-2001, 10:17 AM
"Applesauce B**ch."

"...Whatever gay serial killer who rides horses while playing golf movie you're doing this week..."

And lightsabe...excuse BLUNTsaber duels played to techno music are awesome. GLu. should put more techno music in his movies, especially when there are lightsabers flying around.

08-30-2001, 12:14 PM
Well, it is official, I am going to see Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back again this weekend. That it was the number two movie in this great nation last weekend speaks volumes. I think I've convinced Sith Worm to join Mrs. JediCole and myself. I'd invite Bubba Fatt, but I'm afraid the prevailance of references to recreational drugs and recreational sexuality (homo and hetero) plus the use of the "F-word" being legion, I fear it would offend his tender sensibilites.
Anyone else want to go in his stead?

08-31-2001, 11:34 AM
Cole, it was #3 for it's opening weekend with only $300,000 less than Rush Hour 2, though J&SBSB was #1 for that first day. It could be dead last and I'd still go see it next week, I'm just waiting to watch Chasing Amy first so I will have seen all the films before I go into this.

08-31-2001, 03:26 PM
Watching Chasing Amy would be a good idea as J&SBSB refers back most heavily to that film. Clerks and Mallrats are well represented in the story and Dogma is only given about tree subtle nods (anyone know which ones they were? Not you Sith Worm, I already told you!). But so much of the plot revolves around the foundations of Chasing Amy that much would be lost without having seen it, though I personally believe that anyone could see it without the benefit of the four previous films and still enjoy it for the wild ride that it is...

08-31-2001, 09:12 PM
The SW references are a good idea, but the big draw are the girls in tight black jumpsuits! Ouch.

09-01-2001, 01:27 AM
Originally posted by stillakid
The SW references are a good idea, but the big draw are the girls in tight black jumpsuits! Ouch.

Ali Larter, Shannon Elizabeth, Eliza Dushku, and who is the fourth one? Hehehehe, I think it's funny that their org's name is S.A.C.C.

JediCole, I'm slipping on the Dogma references, probably because I hate that movie. Nevertheless, I do seem to recall someone referring to God as "her". Is that one of them ? ? ?

09-01-2001, 02:49 AM
Originally posted by JediCole
Watching Chasing Amy would be a good idea as J&SBSB refers back most heavily to that film. Clerks and Mallrats are well represented in the story and Dogma is only given about tree subtle nods (anyone know which ones they were? Not you Sith Worm, I already told you!). But so much of the plot revolves around the foundations of Chasing Amy that much would be lost without having seen it, though I personally believe that anyone could see it without the benefit of the four previous films and still enjoy it for the wild ride that it is... Thanks for the advice, I almost went and saw J&SBSB on opening night without seeing Chasing Amy, so I'm glad I changed my mind and decided to wait. The reason I didn't see C.A. before was because everybody I knew who liked Clerks and Mallrats said that it sucked, it was Kevin Smith's big, boring sell-out. I was just glad I enjoyed Dogma after the reviews of C.A. ;).

09-01-2001, 08:48 AM
Jedi Tricks,
I'm glad I could help. I'm not sure why people consider CA a "sell out" piece. In fact it is (prior to Dogma) Smiths most mature work, and in many ways remains such despite Dogma (by far his gutsies work). J&SBSB is in many ways more of the Mallrats-esqe romp. By progession, Clerks was at intervals witty, cerebral, thought provoking, or just down right silly. Mallrats was just a fun romp through the "Askewniverse" of Red Bank, NJ and the lives of nobodies but had little of the social commentary present in Clerks (though in all fairness, Clerks is simply a series of vingnettes under a common theme). Chasing Amy opens a whole new can of worms with its unabashed exploration of modern human sexuality and the comic book industry. One need look no further than Mallrats to see Smiths love of that medium. Dogma, to my way of thinking, was Smith's boldest work to date. He unflinchingly explores organized religion in a way few have previously dared. And to those who avoided it because of the perception that it bashes religion, I challenge you to screen this film sometime. It does more to affirm Christianity than to tear it down. And now we have Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back in which Smith provides a great mix of social commentary, nods to just about everything he loves (in pop culture, especially his beloved Star Wars), and has a lot of fun with one final fling!

Check out the dashboard in Carrie Fisher's car for another Dogma reference, very subtle, as are so many of Smith's nods in J&SBSB.

09-01-2001, 10:04 AM
Of course, the buddy Jesus! I actually did notice that, but it slipped my mind.

I'm still stumped on the third one JediCole !

Anakin Skywalker
09-01-2001, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by Caesar

Ali Larter, Shannon Elizabeth, Eliza Dushku, and who is the fourth one? Hehehehe, I think it's funny that their org's name is S.A.C.C.

The fourth one is Kevin Smith's wife I belive.....umm her name escapes me though.

09-01-2001, 09:40 PM
I think his wife's name is Jennifer - I wonder if her last name is Smith as well?

Mike Troxell
09-01-2001, 10:44 PM
Dogma references: Someone mentioned that God was a "she", Buddy Christ on the dashboard of the nun's car, and (SPOILERS--Highlight)God makes an appearance after the end credits. (End Spoilers)

Since this isn't just a J&SBSB thread, in what order do you rate Kevin's films?

1. Clerks
2. Mallrats
4. Chasing Amy
5. Dogma

Also, does anybody else have the Clerks cartoon DVD? That's some excellent stuff.

09-02-2001, 08:20 AM
Thanks for fielding that question, Mike. Dogma is also eluded to by Matt Damon and Ben Affleck in a rather round about way.

Mrs. JediCole and I are going to (finally) go see J&SBSB for a second time this afternoon. I will probably see much that I missed.

I did get "Clerks Uncensored" on DVD last weekend (again, finally) and I've watched half of the episodes (one of which I saw when it aired, that being the second one aired before the show got the ax). Being able to see what should have been the first episode aired (I saw a few minutes of the one that really aired first), a few aspects of the second episode aired (and the second in the propper sequential order) make a lot more sense (flashbacks).

Plus you just can't beat the "educational" segments at the end of each episode. The DVD even has some rather irrevrent live action host segments allowing Jay to cut loose more than his network TV animated counterpart would have been allowed to, even if it played following South Park on Comedy Central.

Rollo Tomassi
09-02-2001, 03:40 PM
There are TONS of in-jokes in this movie. Half are parodying other films and half are referencing other ViewAskew movies.

Did anybody see our favorite Man without Fear? Daredevil is on the backlot at Miramax.

Eliza Dushku yelling "Bring it on!" in the final catfight with Shannon Elizabeth.

The Variety cover blown up in Brodie's secret stash revealing why Brodie isn't on the Tonight Show anymore.

Baby Silent Bob at the beginning of the film is Harley Quinn Smith.

When Matt and Ben talk about the "Payback picture because a friend says you owe him." They are reffering to Smith's efforts to get Miramax heads Bob abd Harvey to notice "Good Will Hunting" and after it one beaucoup awards, matt and ben forgot to thank Kev during the Oscars. (remember when they kept forgetting somebody and it was bothering them? it was Kevin...)

Jay asking Jason Biggs about "the hot russian chick" who just happens to be his girlfriend in this movie.

Judd Nelson looks suspiciously like Burt "the Bandit" Reynolds, but he's playing a "Smokey".

other Dogma references are the Mooby fast food place they go into and surf the Moobynet and Marshall Willenholly gut shoots Mooby on the studio set.

Gosh..there are too many to list here...(actually I'm too lazy and didn't want to list the obvious ones.)

Mike Troxell
09-02-2001, 05:28 PM
I tried to read the Brodie clipping but it went by too fast. What did it say?

Brodie's my favorite. :D

Rollo Tomassi
09-02-2001, 11:16 PM
"Brodie Bolts"

09-03-2001, 01:10 AM
Mike Troxell, I rate the films as follows:

2. Mallrats
3. Chasing Amy
4. Clerks
5. Dogma

09-03-2001, 10:49 AM
Rollo did a great job of pointing out some great references. Mrs. JediCole and I went to see the movie again yesterday and I noticed one that I would not have been aware of previously, as I bought Clerks Uncensored (the animated Clerks) after seeing it the first time. Previously, the action had been in Red Bank, New Jersy, Smith's home town. In the animated series the town became known as Leonardo, New Jersy as part of the original pilot's plotline. As the film opens, the baby Jay & Silent Bob are seen in front of the Quick Stop and a record store (eventually to be RST Video) and the caption on the screen places them in Leonardo, NJ, a nod to the cartoon.

09-03-2001, 03:14 PM
looky here JediCole! I hear cursing, and homo, and hetro references every durn diddly day at work. i work construction gosh diddly durnit, so i'm used to hearing that kind of potty mouth. just because i dont use it, dont mean i cant handel that poppycock. Fiddelstix, that night i could have gone with you to the moving picture show. Instead, i stayed home by myself sewing costumes for my dog and writing showtunes, dangit! Please excuse my foul language but these kind of posts just get me riled up. P.S. Whoever keeps sending me cheese baskets please stop!

Mike Troxell
09-03-2001, 04:16 PM
Leonardo was always the city in Clerks, methinks.

El Chuxter
09-03-2001, 05:32 PM
I saw this yesterday and, though the theater was close to full, I think I was the only person to have seen all four of the other movies. At least I was the only one laughing at a good deal of the jokes.

Did anyone notice that the security guard at Miramax (the dumb dude from Drew Carey) refers to headquarters as Echo Base? Or that the choreography of the "lightsaber" duel features quite a few moves and shots taken directly from TPM (especially Silent Bob posed exactly like Qui-Gon is in the close-up shot).

And does anyone know the significance, if any, of 37? I noticed it showed up a couple of times, though I couldn't point out exactly where. Is this number to Kevin Smith as 27 is to Weird Al, or 1138 is to Lucas?

Mike Troxell
09-03-2001, 07:23 PM
37...I think it has something to do with Dante's girlfriend in Clerks (yes, I do remember what it was, but it isn't board-appropriate :D)

09-04-2001, 08:44 AM
I would guess if there were any significance to the number 27 that would have to be it!

Did anyone get a good look at the chart on the wall next to the tranq gun at Provasic? There was a picture chart showing "Installing Monkey Brain Plugs the Provasic Way".

Also, in the Bluntsabre duel, Mark Hammil emits a decidedly "animated series" Joker laugh. And how about that Batman TV series inspired Bluntmobile?! Not to mention the general layout and look of the Bluntcave.

In the argument about calling everything "gay" between James VanDerBeek and Jason Biggs, the term "gay dog" (from South Park) is used.

And, as always with reference laden things like this, I am certain there are more than a few I just didn't get, not having a frame of reference for the gags.

Rollo Tomassi
09-04-2001, 09:40 AM
First off the Red Bank/Leonardo debate. The Quick Stop is in Leonardo which is a burrough of Middletown, which is part of the "Tri-Town" area consisting Middletown, Highlands/Atlantic Highlands (which unless you live in one or the other is considered one town) and Red Bank.

Second, more references I noticed. (it's great to work in a movie theatre!!) The security guard calls in to report Jay and Bob, he calls "Echo Base" (oops you already mentioned that one)

The security guards outside Biggs and VanderBeeks room are GORDON, SHAW, HAN, and the fourth guards name begins with "A" but I cant make it out. Han is obvious, Shaw probably refers to Robert Shaw from Jaws, although you could stretch and say it refers Sebastian Shaw but I doubt it. Gordon, I'm not sure about though. Flash Gordon?

I saw the Monkey Poster in Provasik Jedi Cole. Pretty funny.

Anyway, I am off to watch it again and hopefully pick up some more references...

09-04-2001, 09:57 AM
First, a big "I'm sorry" to Bubba Fatt. I didn't think the Askewniverse was your bag, man.

And thank you to Rollo for clearing up the whole New Jersy question. I think Gordon may refer to Comissioner Gordon of Batman fame. Kevin Smith's love of Batman is only too obvious (he named his daughter Harley Quinn after all).

You may also notice that the Mooby on the Mooby Burger sign (the big sculpture) is giving the same affirmative gesture as The Buddy Christ.

It was nice to see that Nails brand cigarettes are still very much in evidnece (first seen, I believe, in Chasing Amy, as well as in the Jay & Silent Bob action figures' accessories).


P.S. Liberate Apes Before Imprisoning Apes!

El Chuxter
09-04-2001, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by Mike Troxell
37...I think it has something to do with Dante's girlfriend in Clerks (yes, I do remember what it was, but it isn't board-appropriate :D)

Oh yeah! Duh. As the shop teacher in UHF said, "Boy is my face red." Definitely not appropriate here, but thanks for the subtle assist.

Rollo Tomassi
09-05-2001, 03:48 PM
"This guy posts under the chick magnet 'WAMPA-1'..." is yet another SW reference.

Good call on the Commisioner Gordon thing. And I still can't make out the fourth guiards nametag...anybody have better eyes than I do???

09-09-2001, 12:20 PM
Well... I watched Chasing Amy last night... and let's just say that I didn't like it and leave it at that. :( <-- that icon would be my best summation of how I felt about it.

THE Slayer
09-09-2001, 01:42 PM
I think I'm in agreement with almost everyone here, that jay.. is one of the funniest movies I've seen in a very very long time. I noticed the echo base and wampa lines,, and aparently other people around me did also because a bunch of people started to whisper.

and a quick question. why is the word *** represented as ***in a few of the above post?? It's not being used to offend anyone just to quote,, like in Ben's speach to Matt??

Eternal Padawan
09-10-2001, 09:29 AM
We can't say "***"?

Eternal Padawan
09-10-2001, 09:34 AM
Hmmmm...I guess not. Well. I for one am all for it. people in these forums use it all too often in a derogatory manner to describe something they don't like. It's become in the vernacular synonymous with "stupid" and "lame" and people sometimes don't even realize they are offending a minority by using it. maybe this will force posters to pull out their thesaurus and actually come up with a word to describe how they feel about an issue, rather than just saying "hmph...that's gray."

Kudos to the Webmaster and his acolytes for taking this step...

09-10-2001, 04:53 PM
I was reading the latest posts and discovered that the *-ed out word was from one of mine. I honestly had no idea that said word had made it to the walk-on-eggshells around people's tender sensibilities hit-list or I would honestly not even referenced the scene. Certainly this particular film bore a copious quantity of lines that were inappropriate for reference here and, like most people who respond to threads of this nature I have the good sense and good taste not to bring such scenes up in this venue. I also agree with Eternal Padawan about the use of this particular word in place of "poorly realized", "terrible", "atrocious", "not my first choice", "stupid" or other words and phrases that denote one's distate with the subject of their tyrade. To a degree I also agree that those who run herd on these forums should * out things that may be offensive. However, for the record, I would like to point out that the seemingly (and suddenly) taboo word was used in the context of a quote, and not as a slang term by someone too challenged in the use of his native tongue to procure a more appropriate word or phrase. What I am getting at is the perception that the person responsible for the post is subsequently branded a callous, unthinking, and perhaps even bigoted individual.
I will now get off of my soap box and return you to your regularly scheduled postings.

09-11-2001, 06:07 AM
It's an auto-censor, it doesn't understand context. Originally, "gray" without the 'r' was not on the censor list and when used within its appropriate context, was acceptable. However, when folks started really abusing it and using it as a derogatory term, it had to go on the censor list because I literally couldn't keep up with all the inappropriate uses of it. When a word is added to the auto-censor, it apparently back-censors all uses of it.

BTW, I'd like to take this time to remind folks that this is an all-ages website, and as such, are responsible to keep the site clean since parental watchdog groups can get SSG into big trouble and even closed if they see stuff they deem very inappropriate. We know for sure that we have at least one under-13 user on these forums already, so we have to be careful.