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View Full Version : Why couldn't the emporer lift himself outta that pit?



chewie
03-27-2002, 12:22 AM
Continuing the thread(s) about the Sith and the emporer, here's a new one.

The official reason for Palpatine not just simply using the force and preventing his fall into the chasm is for movie plot advancement, but geekdom has had me pondering this question. Mainly just to create a new thread.

If Palpatine was so incredibly powerful as to take over the entire republic, forsee the future, and shoot lightning bolts out of his hands, you'd think he'd have even more powerful force powers than Luke for getting himself out of trouble spots.

When Luke was dropped into the carbon freezing chamber, he zipped himself right up out of it. And when he fell into the cloud city chasm, he used the force again to propell himself into a vent.

Now why couldn't Palpatine simply just levitate with ease out of that hole that Vader threw him in? He obviously was fully aware that Vader was turning on him, as evidenced by shooting lightning at Vader which caused Vader's demise. So IMO, Palpatine "could" have potentially kept himself from falling as he was fully aware of what was going on, yet simply did not because the script would not allow it.

Any other (better) reasons he didn't stop his fall?

hamsterboy
03-27-2002, 12:59 AM
I think he was too old to do anything like that. Besides,bouncing off the sides of the walls probably took alot out of him to boot.

JediTricks
03-27-2002, 01:42 AM
Luke didn't just stop in mid-air, he made a speedy leap out of the carbon chamber after he landed at the bottom a couple yards down. From what we've seen, the Jedi cannot simply levitate, the best they can do is guide where they fall. Palpatine had nothing to land on as he fell down the pit, and he seemed awfully freaked out by the massive betrayal he had just been dealt, perhaps too freaked to aim himself towards any small platforms or the like.

187-Maul
03-27-2002, 09:25 AM
maybe he did land somewhere or aimed at platform
maybe he was just getting back up to his throneroom when suddenly BLAM the hole deathstar exploded...

LTBasker
03-27-2002, 09:46 AM
I do believe Luke's jumping explanation could be considered an OT "Force jump" like Obi-Wan does in TPM to get to an upper catwalk. Jedi & Sith can probably lift others but not themselves for some odd reason, maybe the force can't operate on that.

About Luke and the vent shaft, well it was either falling with style or they stratedgicly placed them there so they wouldn't have a bunch of dead bodies on the bottom laying around like flies on a fly strip. ;)

dr_evazan22
03-27-2002, 10:09 AM
It didn't seem to me that Luke used the force to get to the exhaust/debris vent. To me it looked like he accepted that death was preferrable to turning to the dark side, that if the force had a hand in Luke's survival, then it wasn't thru any control Luke (may have) attempted to exert. Luke couldn't levitate off the weathervane back into the relative safety of the vent after he fell out.
Luke was physically and emotionally exhausted from his battle w/ Vader and WOULD have turned if he didn't step off.

As for Palps, I think he was surprised by Vader's betrayal and lost control of his considerable force powers.
I wonder how many "tight spots" Palps has been in, other than this. He was most masterful at manipulating everyone else to do his dirty work for him, especially when the "victim" didn't know they were helping Palps (I'm thinking here of political manipulation to get Palps from Senator to Emp that we haven't yet, and may never, see).

Darkross
03-27-2002, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by dr_evazan22
It didn't seem to me that Luke used the force to get to the exhaust/debris vent. To me it looked like he accepted that death was preferrable to turning to the dark side...Luke was physically and emotionally exhausted from his battle w/ Vader and WOULD have turned if he didn't step off.


I agree with you Dr_Evanzan22 about Luke accepting death rather than join Vader. The look on his face was I'd rather die than join you Vader.

As far as the vents are concerned...I don't think for a minute that Luke used the force to pull himself into one. If you consider the she forces of wind that were in that tunnel, the vents were designed to suck out garbage or debris as to not damage the inside. So when Luke fell, he was just sucked into one of the vents. If he was emotionally and physically exhausted which I believe he was...then he wouldn't have had much force power left in him to jump off the weather vein.

As far a Palpatine...I say that he was both shocked by Vader's betrayal and did not have the Force resources to levitate / jump out of the chasm. There are limits to the powers of the Force...and I don't think that the Emperor could have done it even if he was at the bottom.

Dryanta
03-27-2002, 10:59 AM
I hate to do this but this kinda goes along with some thoughts I posted in the" there can only be two thread."
I think that it was the force itself that kept Palpatine from getting himself back up out of the reactor pit.I also think Dr Evazan is on to something when he says the force may have guided Luke to the vent.
Because Vader was toast and Luke would not turn the force stepped in and "inforced" if you will the two rule.It seems to me that Palpatine could have guided himself to a safe place.Shocked no doubt,but this is Palpatine we're talking about here.I think he could have composed himself enough to get to safety somewhere.
The idea of showing him just getting back up as the Death Star explodes is a great one!!

Darkross
03-27-2002, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by Dryanta
I hate to do this but this kinda goes along with some thoughts I posted in the" there can only be two thread."
I think that it was the force itself that kept Palpatine from getting himself back up out of the reactor pit.I also think Dr Evazan is on to something when he says the force may have guided Luke to the vent.
Because Vader was toast and Luke would not turn the force stepped in and "inforced" if you will the two rule.It seems to me that Palpatine could have guided himself to a safe place.Shocked no doubt,but this is Palpatine we're talking about here.I think he could have composed himself enough to get to safety somewhere.
The idea of showing him just getting back up as the Death Star explodes is a great one!!

But then again...would the DeathStar have exploded if Palpatine had survived? I don't think so!

stillakid
03-27-2002, 11:11 AM
I think that you're all wrong. ;)

Palpatine essentially "self-destructed" in that pit and perhaps might have done it anyway topside. Presumably, so filled with hate, anger, etc. the "dark side" was flowing through him at a rate (?) too great for his frail human body to handle. You can see this when Vader lifts him over his head. The bolts continue to fly and he appears to be more or less frozen in that attack stance, as if something else has control over him. Kind of like the reaction your body has when electrocuted. There was just too much power coursing through his body making it impossible for even him to control...ergo, the ultimate danger of the darkside.

Luke presumably hit the floor of the carbon freezing chamber which enabled him to simply give a super-NBA-style leap upwards. There's no screen evidence to suggest that a "Jedi" can reverse his downward fall in midair, which would amount to flying.

When he "fell" off the gantry, I think that his intention was suicide...a fate more preferable to him at that moment than dealing with the truth of his father. When he gets sucked into the tube, it's a surprise to him and he realizes that he managed to escape a fate worse than death and that he may live to see another day.

The "Force" is attributed to be responsible for too many things by some people when simple human frailties are the more likely, and favorable, option.

Darkross
03-27-2002, 11:16 AM
Originally posted by stillakid
I think that you're all wrong. ;)

Palpatine essentially "self-destructed" in that pit and perhaps might have done it anyway topside. Presumably, so filled with hate, anger, etc. the "dark side" was flowing through him at a rate (?) too great for his frail human body to handle. You can see this when Vader lifts him over his head. The bolts continue to fly and he appears to be more or less frozen in that attack stance, as if something else has control over him. Kind of like the reaction your body has when electrocuted. There was just too much power coursing through his body making it impossible for even him to control...ergo, the ultimate danger of the darkside.

Luke presumably hit the floor of the carbon freezing chamber which enabled him to simply give a super-NBA-style leap upwards. There's no screen evidence to suggest that a "Jedi" can reverse his downward fall in midair, which would amount to flying.

When he "fell" off the gantry, I think that his intention was suicide...a fate more preferable to him at that moment than dealing with the truth of his father. When he gets sucked into the tube, it's a surprise to him and he realizes that he managed to escape a fate worse than death and that he may live to see another day.

The "Force" is attributed to be responsible for too many things by some people when simple human frailties are the more likely, and favorable, option.

All good points...now that I think about it...I too once thought that the Emperor was kind of frozen in that attack state as the power of the darkside was coarsing through his body. This would make sense since Darth Vader dying may have simply been accidental due to the Emperor's lightning.

Dryanta
03-27-2002, 11:21 AM
I'm just trying to get all this to make sort of sense myself.Obi wan in his explaination of the force to Luke pretty much says it is in control of everything.Now we get Midichlorians impregnating women of their own accord to force "human Frailties"to rectify a problem the the force sees with the universe.What do I know,I didn't any of this stuff up.It's only fiction afterall .I can't make it all make sense in the context of the real world,let alone plot advancement,ect. :D

stillakid
03-27-2002, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by Darkross
This would make sense since Darth Vader dying may have simply been accidental due to the Emperor's lightning.


That's EXACTLY what happened.

Not to intentionally point fingers or anything terrible like that, but I am consistently amazed at how so many moviegoers don't or can't see, the obvious, or at least what seemed obvious to me. If you try to start reading into the minutia too much, things will always start to look confusing. It's the natural properties of quantum mechanics! :) GL wasn't that profound when laying the groundwork for this story and clearly there is no absolute continuity when it comes to certain "Jedi behaviors" and such. Look for the simpliest explanation and that will most likely be the answer.

Bel-Cam Jos
03-27-2002, 06:28 PM
But I've heard others say that since Vader lost his hand, it exposed his suit to the outside and slowly was sapping his strength. I think the Force lightning just made his bad situation worse.

stillakid
03-27-2002, 06:32 PM
Originally posted by Dryanta
I'm just trying to get all this to make sort of sense myself.Obi wan in his explaination of the force to Luke pretty much says it is in control of everything.Now we get Midichlorians impregnating women of their own accord to force "human Frailties"to rectify a problem the the force sees with the universe.What do I know,I didn't any of this stuff up.It's only fiction afterall .I can't make it all make sense in the context of the real world,let alone plot advancement,ect. :D

Midichlorian's are horny little creatures which accounts for them knocking up Schmi. It's a mystery, though, because Leia is 100 times hotter than Schmi and she hasn't been preggers yet. :rolleyes:

Dryanta
03-27-2002, 07:05 PM
Now that I agree with 100%.If were a midichlrian i'd be after Liea too

JEDIpartner
03-28-2002, 11:43 AM
Maybe...He was IN SHOCK! :stupid:

browndroid
03-28-2002, 11:56 AM
i always have wondered why he looked like he was frozen