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View Full Version : Why doesn't Leia see Anakin?



stillakid
08-29-2001, 07:48 PM
At the end of Jedi, I always thought it would be more poignant for Leia to also see her father's spirit. No, she's not trained or anything, but the ability for the Jedi spirits to be seen rested with them and not the living.

Thoughts, comments, suggestions, anecdotes?

Fulit
08-29-2001, 09:49 PM
Well, if it's any consolation, in one of the books set a few years after ROTJ, the spirit of Anakin Skywalker appears to Leia and tries to talk to her, but she gets mad at him. I can't remember what book, can anyone else?

Fulit
08-29-2001, 09:52 PM
I found it. It's called The Truce at Bakura.

evenflow
08-30-2001, 08:36 AM
She couldn't see him because she wasn't one with the force yet. She still had to learn.

stillakid
08-30-2001, 10:19 AM
But the control over "sight" was with the dead guys. Not to mention that now Leia is choke full o' midichlorians. She should "see dead people" all she wants.

JediTricks
08-30-2001, 11:19 AM
I think Evenflow hit it right on the head, she may be strong with the Force, but she's not trained to use it, to see what it's showing her.

JediCole
08-30-2001, 11:27 AM
Despite Leia's obvious (by Jedi) relationship to Luke, and ultimately Vader/Anakin, Leia was not in the least bit adept with the force. One might argue that her "connection" to Luke in Empire (Cloud City escape) was a sure sign of this, but at the time her relationship to Luke was unknown so such conjecture is rendered mute by virtue of imposing knowledge from Jedi onto a scene from Empire (and it is a stronger arguement that Luke used the Force to contact Leia as she was the only one he knew well and who was still concious (Han being frozen and all).
If you pay close attention to these things, Leia herself provides the answer in Jedi. Though she is related, probably **** full of Midichlorians (ugh!), and almost certainly "the Force is strong with her", by her own admission Luke posesses a power that she "doesn't understand and could never have". Luke disabusing her of that perception could do little to instantly project her into the "larger world" that he now inhabits. You have to remember, a connection to the Force is a lost art. Leia, though strong in the Force by lineage, is still blind to it by conditioning.
I am the King of Justification!

JediCole
08-30-2001, 11:33 AM
In reference to the insistance that the "control over sight" rested in the hands of the spirits (proposing that the spirits of the deceased Jedi could control who did and did not see them), though a compelling arguement, Ben and Yoda (whom with the exception of perhaps a passing glance before his demise) Leia had never seen and Anakin (who as far as he knew Leia did not know was her father) really would have had no reason to reveal themselves to her at all.
Why scare the poor girl with a ghostly trinity?

stillakid
08-30-2001, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by JediCole
In reference to the insistance that the "control over sight" rested in the hands of the spirits (proposing that the spirits of the deceased Jedi could control who did and did not see them), though a compelling arguement, Ben and Yoda (whom with the exception of perhaps a passing glance before his demise) Leia had never seen and Anakin (who as far as he knew Leia did not know was her father) really would have had no reason to reveal themselves to her at all.
Why scare the poor girl with a ghostly trinity?

I think that my reason for wanting Leia to see her father is that is would give that glimmer of suggestion to the audience that there is more to come. As ROTJ ends right now, there is definite finality to it all as if the whole of the Empire dissolved immediately upon the explosion. Remember back to ANH, as final as it seemed, GL gave us that shot of Vader getting back under control then bugging out of there. We knew that it wasn't over.

Bel-Cam Jos
08-30-2001, 12:19 PM
How about this? Ben chose to appear before Luke in ESB and ROJ. Why couldn't Anakin, Yoda, and Ben chose to appear only for Luke? Why would Leia need to see them; she's never (at least in these pre-E2 & E3 days) met Yoda, knows Obi-Wan only through her adoptive father's stories, and has grown to hate the Sith Lord her real father became. Luke needs closure, to justify his choices and training. Leia just needs the Rebel victory. And Han.

JediCole
08-30-2001, 03:38 PM
It is funny that Vader regaining control of his fighter is mentioned. It seems so many people forgot that part back in 1977 after seeing Star Wars (remember, it wasn't A New Hope at first). I remember when the Marvel Comic Star Wars began its post-adaptation run (with issue #7, the adaptation of the movie took up the first six issues of the series), the first time you see Vader is crash-landed on some planet! I guess they forgot he wasn't still spinning when we last saw him on film.

stillakid
08-30-2001, 10:47 PM
I just rewatched Jedi today, in fact, and thought that it might have been quite meaningful for Leia to be at the pyre as well. True, her experience with Vader was all bad, but that's really the point. Luke already got his closure on the Death Star. Leia's never happened. At present, the arrival of the 3 spirits almost comes off as one of those wacky end of sit-com moments. They all have a chuckle and the credits roll. Remember, the strength of motion pictures is "showing" us information and not just "telling" it to us (ala TPM). It would have been powerful to have Leia see her father as the man he really was and not the machine that took over.

JediTricks
08-31-2001, 09:40 AM
Stillakid, in my mind, I've started my own version of the events after ROTJ that have nothing to do with Dark Empire, and the ending of the film doesn't hurt this for me. Basically, I think of the Prequels as the Anakin trilogy, the Classics as the Luke trilogy, and my own little version of Eps 7-9 as the Leia trilogy -- where Leia is training to become a Jedi, but starts heading down the Dark path towards becoming a more dangerous dark Jedi than even her father, and only Jedi Master Luke and Han, who have let their friendship fall apart as their paths grew more and more separate, have to band back together to save Leia from destroying herself and the galaxy.

stillakid
08-31-2001, 10:31 AM
Your version sounds pretty interesting but unfortunately I can't offer any discussion or comparison because I don't read the extra stories and stuff. While I'm sure that they are mildly interesting, I stick to the movies. I have this preference for any film to leave that glimmer of suggestion that there might be more later on, even if there isn't going to be. That's all. :rolleyes:

JediTricks
08-31-2001, 11:11 PM
Originally posted by stillakid
Your version sounds pretty interesting but unfortunately I can't offer any discussion or comparison because I don't read the extra stories and stuff. While I'm sure that they are mildly interesting, I stick to the movies.I also stay away from the EU for the most part, the point I was making was that even if Lucas is going to let it die, in my head, I've created an all-new story that continues where ROTJ left off in the same vein that Ep 4 will continue where Ep 3 left off.

Obi-Don
09-02-2001, 07:00 AM
I think that the spirits show themselfs to whom they want and may be it wasn't time for Leia.It would have been more powerful for her tosee her father the way he was before the darkside took over.As for the books going on from ROTJ,I for one like them, because the story doesn't end.I would reconmend it to anyone who loves Star Wars and wants it to continue.

Sliver FBI
09-02-2001, 07:30 PM
She couldnīt see him because her Midichlorians were asleep. :D

stillakid
09-02-2001, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by Sliver FBI
She couldnīt see him because her Midichlorians were asleep. :D

That's an interesting way to look at it. Not so much that Leia's Midichlorians were sleeping, but that they no longer had Anakin's to "talk" to.

stillakid
02-25-2008, 01:46 PM
So now we know that Anakin (Hayden) knew about the children prior to him killing off Padme. He was excited about it actually.

So when he learns about Luke (in between ANH and ESB), his "pledge" to the Emperor falters which eventually leads him toward martyrdom. He ALSO learns (via mind reading or something) that Luke has a twin sister.

With that in mind, Old Anakin (Sebastian Shaw) shows himself to Luke (along with Old Ben and Yoda) ... but shouldn't he also have shown himself to Leia? Hayd-akin went to the dark side presumably so he could save Padme from dying during childbirth. Obviously there are significant story problems within ROTS that make that whole conceit moot. But if we take that basic concept and extend it to the Original Trilogy Vader, why wouldn't he reveal himself to his other child too? Not only in terms of Leia just being his kid, but you know, he also tortured the poor girl too in ANH....and he blew up her planet.

So was Sebast-akin just "hiding" at the end of Return of the Jedi because he was still ashamed of how he treated Leia? (and yes, I'm ignoring the Special Edition where Whine-akin took Sebast-akin's place).

General_Grievous
02-25-2008, 04:30 PM
So now we know that Anakin (Hayden) knew about the children prior to him killing off Padme. He was excited about it actually.
Nobody knew Padme was carrying twins until they were born. Until they were born, Anakin and Padme just referred to them as "the baby", not "the babies". I think Vader assumed Luke was his only child until he read Luke's mind in ROTJ.

El Chuxter
02-25-2008, 04:32 PM
She would've seen him, but was too busy making out with Han.

stillakid
02-25-2008, 04:53 PM
Nobody knew Padme was carrying twins until they were born. Until they were born, Anakin and Padme just referred to them as "the baby", not "the babies". I think Vader assumed Luke was his only child until he read Luke's mind in ROTJ.


Uh, yeah, I got that (mentioned above). The question is in regards to after Vader learns about Leia and why he didn't reveal his ghostly visage to his own daughter at the very end of ROTJ.

2-1B
02-25-2008, 06:19 PM
Because ghosts don't exist. :thumbsup:

JediTricks
02-25-2008, 08:31 PM
"Even in death, a jerk he still is."

Leia wasn't looking in quite the right direction, bummer for her. But she had a daddy already anyway.

stillakid
02-25-2008, 08:44 PM
"Even in death, a jerk he still is."

Leia wasn't looking in quite the right direction, bummer for her. But she had a daddy already anyway.

Who's her daddy? :whip:

General_Grievous
02-25-2008, 08:48 PM
Maybe she did see them, but she was too hazed on an ewok peace pipe to notice. Wouldn't be a stretch in acting for Carrie Fisher. :p

Honestly, I think they all just chose to make themselves visible to Luke. Or maybe Luke was the only one who was strong enough in the Force (at the time) to see the spirits.

JediTricks
02-25-2008, 09:15 PM
Growing up an only child, Luke doesn't know how to share.

bigbarada
02-26-2008, 12:38 AM
Vader discovered that Luke had a twin sister by reading his mind, but did he know that Leia was that twin sister?

stillakid
02-26-2008, 10:39 AM
Vader discovered that Luke had a twin sister by reading his mind, but did he know that Leia was that twin sister?

oooh, good point. I hadn't thought of that.

But maybe I was assuming that once someone bit the dust, that ALL would be revealed to them. It seems like an obvious assumption within the Judeo-Christian tradition, but I suppose in a galaxy far far away, "things" could be run a little differently.

bigbarada
02-26-2008, 11:50 AM
oooh, good point. I hadn't thought of that.

But maybe I was assuming that once someone bit the dust, that ALL would be revealed to them. It seems like an obvious assumption within the Judeo-Christian tradition, but I suppose in a galaxy far far away, "things" could be run a little differently.

Obviously, in Star Wars, spirits are just as clueless in the afterlife as George Lucas is in reality.:D

El Chuxter
02-27-2008, 02:51 PM
Didn't Vader read his feelings as being for Leia when he read his mind?