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master jedi
08-29-2001, 11:02 PM
....sense that Leia had the Force with her yer he could sense that Luke had the Force with him in ANH and Leia got even closer to him than Luke? After all, Luke and Leia are twins.

Lone Jedi
08-29-2001, 11:45 PM
That's cuz Luke was Force-sensitive, while Leia was only Force-attuned during A New Hope. Sorry, I'm being sarcastic :) Anyone who plays the CCG would know what I'm poking fun at ("Help me Rollo Tomasi, you're my only hope").

Vader also read Luke's mind about his twin in Episode VI, yet he couldn't read Leia's mind about the Rebel base in Episode IV. Who knows, maybe PMS can block the ways of the Force.

stillakid
08-29-2001, 11:58 PM
I'd suggest something about the Midichlorians but I'll just get yelled at.

2-1B
08-30-2001, 02:25 AM
"The Midichlorians are strong with this one"
-- Darth Vader, Episode IV --

"For my ally is the Midichlorians, and a powerful ally they are"
-- Yoda, Episode V --

"May the Midichlorians be with us"
-- Admiral Ackbar, Episode VI --

evenflow
08-30-2001, 08:35 AM
Damn the Midichlorians, they ruined everything.

JediTricks
08-30-2001, 11:14 AM
Luke had started his journey towards becoming a Jedi when he was training with Obi-Wan. Even then, however, Vader only sensed Luke in ANH when Obi-Wan came to Luke, Obi-Wan's merging with the Force is what Vader was sensing, I believe. In ESB, Luke has let his training lapse a bit and Vader doesn't sense Luke's presence in the attacking Snowspeeders. It's only when Luke begins his training with Yoda that the Emperor and Vader sense a disturbance in the Force. I think the pattern there is that when Luke applies himself, that's when he makes his Force-presence known. Leia never began the training to become a Jedi and thus, wouldn't have shown up on the Dark siders' radar.

El Chuxter
08-30-2001, 11:18 AM
What follows is complete speculation. . . .

Vader didn't sense the Force in Leia because she wasn't aware of it and therefore couldn't use it at a conscious level. However, like many who became Jedi later in life, she could use it at a subconscious level. (EG, Anakin could pilot podracers, Luke could shoot womp rats, Kyp Durron could fly blindfolded through the mines of Kessel, and Corran Horn had incredible skills of deduction.) Leia was a senator, and unknowingly used the Force in diplomacy and negotiation, which required a good deal of keeping ones intentions secret. Therefore, Leia was able to block mind probes by Vader, and Vader either didn't put two and two together, or figured she was as good as dead and it wasn't worth worrying about another possible Force user.

Bel-Cam Jos
08-30-2001, 12:31 PM
The answer to all these questions is the same; because the movie audience wasn't supposed to know it yet.

Why didn't Vader recognize Threepio on the Death Star or Cloud City?
Why didn't Ben run real fast through the Death Star, or away from Vader instead of being killed?
Why didn't Vader know Leia had Force tendencies?
Why didn't Ben mention Qui-Gon to Luke?
Why weren't all the Jedi extinguished by the Emperor's purge, sicne so many were alive in EU stories?
Why wasn't the 2nd in command on the Jedi Council (Yoda) killed?

Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

master jedi
08-30-2001, 04:06 PM
Qui-Gon sensed that the force was with Anakin and he was only attuned to the force at that time so why couldn't Vader/Anakin sense something 'special' about Leia when she was only attuned to the force.

stillakid
08-30-2001, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by master jedi
Qui-Gon sensed that the force was with Anakin and he was only attuned to the force at that time so why couldn't Vader/Anakin sense something 'special' about Leia when she was only attuned to the force.


Good point! This is what happens when you have to start rationalizing and justifying plot points that were ill-conceived in the first place. The dominos start falling like crazy.

bigbarada
08-30-2001, 11:15 PM
Simple, the idea of Leia being Luke's sister wasn't added until the second draft of ROTJ. When Yoda mentions "another" he's not refering to Leia he's refering to someone else who was supposed to be the main character of the Ep7-9 trilogy. However when Lucas decided he didn't want to do 7-9 he copped out and made Leia the "other" and totally ruined ANH and ESB. Worse, he pretended that was the story all along.

As for a fantasy explaination, maybe Luke and OB1 were bait for Vader and Palpatine, Yoda was hedging all his bets on Leia so he oversaw her life and blocked any evidence of the Force. Could explain why Yoda was so reluctant to train Luke and why OB1 didn't seem to know about the "other."

OB1: That boy is our only hope.
Yoda: No...there is another

If OB1 knew about Leia then his line would've probably sounded more like:

OB1: Oh well, scratch that one where's Leia?

However, this whole theory hinges on whether OB1 knows who Leia really is, which I gather will be revealed in Ep3.

Darth Cruel
08-31-2001, 01:32 AM
I agree with most everything stated above except for one thing. I think Vader did feel Luke's presence on Hoth when he confronted Ozzel and Piett about the info sent back from the probe droid.

Vader: "That is the system. And I am sure Skywalker is with them!"

This quote and the timing of it lead me to believe that Vader knew it was the correct system because he felt Luke there somehow. I choose to explain this this way. Vader was stretching his attention all across the galaxy to feel for Luke, but couldn't find him for any of a number of reasons. Luke was not strong with The Force, Vader was not focused as the area he was searching was vast (sorta like looking for your keys in your house, you may KNOW they are there, but they are hard to find until someone says "check in the desk drawer"), and it is reasonable to assume that there may have been other decendents of Jedi giving off Force energy and further making it difficult for Vader to "see" Luke.

JediTricks
08-31-2001, 09:51 AM
Originally posted by master jedi
Qui-Gon sensed that the force was with Anakin and he was only attuned to the force at that time so why couldn't Vader/Anakin sense something 'special' about Leia when she was only attuned to the force. Qui-Gon does not make any statement or action that shows that he immediately sensed that the Force was with Anakin, in fact, he seems to almost completely ignore Anakin when they first meet in Watto's shop. In fact, it's only when Anakin saves Jar Jar from getting smacked up by Sebulba does Qui-Gon even talk to him and there's no mention of Qui-Gon paying Anakin any real attention until Qui-Gon talks to Shmi about the boy being special, and in the script, it reads like Qui-Gon is merely talking about Anakin's generosity. The idea of Qui-Gon seeing Anakin as a potential Force-user doesn't come up till Ani mentions his special podracing abilities during the dinner scene.

stillakid
08-31-2001, 10:20 AM
While Leia being the sister was incredibly convenient, I don't think that it destroyed ANH and ESB. While alive, Ben never really saw Leia and Luke together so any opportunity for him to react never happened. The ESB line about Luke being the only hope, while suspect, comes at the end of the discussion when they feel that Luke's leaving will essentially destroy them all. Ben might have felt that Leia, as an uninitiated Force user at that point, wouldn't be very useful once Vader took them all down. Of course the discussions in ROTJ tie everything neatly up but it's all plausible (that Ben hid the twins) and caused no problems with continuity.

As far as sensing the Force goes, throughout the entire series, it became evident that as a person learns more about the Force and learns to manipulate it, then they become "visible" to others who are tapped in. Kind of like tossing bigger and bigger stones into a pond. In the trench battle (ANH) Luke has just begun so it isn't until Vader is right on Luke's tail that he notices any disturbance in the Force. In ESB, presumably, Luke has played around a bit more with it so when Vader's attention is drawn to a particular place, he can focus his radar on that spot and senses Luke even from so far away.

TPM is screwy with the established way of things so it's difficult to include it, but I suppose Qui Gon didn't sense Anakin at all, and I'll repeat that by saying NEVER, because Anakin had no training at all and never used the Force. Qui Gon's only "proof" of Ani's Force potential was the Midi measurement and Ani's boasting about the Pod Race. In other words, a whole lot of talk and nothing to back it up. But Anakin did Pod Race? you say. Sure, but it didn't look that much harder than piloting a starship and the only reason that he won is because his Pod stalled at the beginning giving Sebulba time to nefariously wipe out everyone else. The Pod Race was just a long drawn out Rube Goldberg plot device to get them off the planet. While cool, it's purpose as a way to prove Anakin's Force ability never happened.

El Chuxter
08-31-2001, 11:09 AM
Originally posted by stillakid
Anakin's Force ability never happened.

So that's why he became evil! He's a phony! A big fat phony! Yep, it was all tricks he learned from a Blackstone magic kit. Then Obi-Wan found out, and to the Dark Side of the (non-)Force it was! What about Motti, Needa, and Ozzel? Simple--iacane powder. . . tasteless, odorless, and dissolves undetectably in liquid!

(Sorry about quoting you out of context, but I couldn't resist. :D)

stillakid
08-31-2001, 11:26 AM
Originally posted by El Chuxter


So that's why he became evil! He's a phony! A big fat phony! Yep, it was all tricks he learned from a Blackstone magic kit. Then Obi-Wan found out, and to the Dark Side of the (non-)Force it was! What about Motti, Needa, and Ozzel? Simple--iacane powder. . . tasteless, odorless, and dissolves undetectably in liquid!

(Sorry about quoting you out of context, but I couldn't resist. :D)


That's alright. I'll try to be a whole lot more specific next time to avoid any unpleasant confrontations. :D

JEDIpartner
09-17-2001, 02:19 PM
Carrie Fisher started taking drugs as a part of the method acting process. :eek: She felt that Princess Leia would have taken all those hallucinogenics to help cloud her mind so that Vader would never be able to read her mind. :confused: So it was really all of those pills that help her not to reveal the location of the hidden base to Vader. Don't get me wrong... we know he tried, but trying to read her mind caused him to experience a little difficulty himself... as evidenced by that "wow, whoopee!! I'm spinning outta control" thing with his TIE fighter. :p

buba-fatt
10-04-2001, 06:48 PM
Maybe........ 1.Luke had more darkside tendencies than Leia. 2.Vader knew Lukes last name. 3. Luke had been using force powers a lot up to that point whereas Leia's first time was at the end of Empire. 4. At dinner on Cloud City Leia didnt use the force, she asked chewy to pass the salt. Vader notices these kind of things.

master jedi
10-05-2001, 12:35 PM
Aren't Jedi and Sith trained to sense something 'special' about people like Qui-Gon did with Anakin? Then why not with Leia?

I don't think Anakin was doing anything with the force until Gui-Gon showed up, exept for the quick reflexes.

buba-fatt
10-05-2001, 04:36 PM
Maybe the force is more difficult to detect in females than in males. Estregin desquises the medichloriens. I bet "the" is the only word that I spelled correctly in that last sentence.

Rollo Tomassi
10-06-2001, 08:50 AM
Originally posted by buba-fatt
Maybe the force is more difficult to detect in females than in males. Estregin desquises the medichloriens. I bet "the" is the only word that I spelled correctly in that last sentence.


Estrogen disguises da midichlorians.;)

buba-fatt
10-06-2001, 04:05 PM
Danks Rollo!