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View Full Version : The SSG BATTLE OF THE MACHINES Round 1 - Fight 10!



Tycho
04-05-2002, 01:59 AM
Slave-One versus the Outrider marks our 10th Round of our Preliminary matches to determine the greatest Hasbro Star Wars vehicle of all time!

You are voting on the OLD Slave-One, People. Released in 1996 as part of the Shadows of the Empire toy line, this repaint of the mold used for the vintage Boba Fett's 1981 toy accessory was an exciting chance for early collectors of the modern line to expand their toy ship fleet early in the Star Wars renaissance. Slave One features a removeable side panel that allows playtime access to the interior of the ship. So Boba Fett can walk up his extending boarding ramp and into his cargo hold until he makes his way to the multi-position pilot's chair, which can be pivoted up into its flight position in the cockpit, with the use of a remote lever. Once its ready to fly, Slave-One can receive your help with a manual liftoff, but gravity will reposition its flight stabalizer wings all on its own - unless you lock the secret trigger on the carrying handle in back, and make the wings resist forward motion and act like braking flaps to help Fett achieve some of his trickier flight maneuvers. This Kuat Systems Firespray class light patrol craft also features twin, forward, pivoting laser cannons that operate on a linked firing system. Slave One sports a very detailed, battered and battle-worn art deco, easily making this toy one of the best paint jobs on a Star Wars toy vehicle in the history of the entire line. Finally, a bounty hunter's work is never done until he has captured its prey. Slave One comes ready to hold the Carbon Frozen Han Solo prop included with the toy!

Dash Rendar's Outrider has a lot more things Corellian about it. The ship is a light Corellian courier / cargo ship, but mercenary Dash Rendar has armed it to the teeth for fast and furious fighting, as well as more refined smuggling. The ship sports 2 pairs of twin blaster cannons, positioned centrally on the ships main freighter hull, on top and on bottom. You can make-believe the pilot can remotely operate them from the cockpit, but theoretically, they actually should be able to also be manned from inside. A pivoting ion cannon / military grade turbo laser cannon has been attached to the small freighter's side. On the opposite side of the ship, the cylindrical cockpit stems out of the ships main saucer hull and holds one action figure in a chair that can be manually rotated so the pilot is always "right-side-up" relative to the ship's normal flight axis. What's unique about the Outrider is that in battle, the ship can reposition its weaponry into almost a B-wing configuration by rotating its control and main weapons module ends along a central axis point, so they lock at a 90 degree angle to the hull, supported by a central "tunnel" structure that runs the width of the freighter. In this position, the Outrider can maximize the damage done with the super firepower this ship makes a show of flaunting! 4 manually operated landing gear let this ship park itself in position.

So which one do you think do you think has a shot at the top position amongst all the Star Wars vehicles turned into toys by Hasbro?

Vote for your favorite and then let's talk about these ships!

Wolfwood319
04-05-2002, 02:05 AM
Gotta go with Slave I on this one. The Outrider was a glorified B-Wing, with aspirations to be the Falcon. Coming up short on both ends of the spectram.

Tycho
04-05-2002, 02:25 AM
Now it's rare for me to state my opinion this early in a poll - it would be much more politically correct of me to let everyone else vote and discuss this first, but the Outrider is one of those ships that just irks me!

Don't get me wrong: I'm really glad they made it, and before it was even added to the Special Edition (of A New Hope), I was stoked that Hasbro was making Expanded Universe stuff - vehicles especially! I have my Outrider proudly on display still, and I can see it from my desk as I'm typing right now.

But the ship "should have been" the size of the Millennium Falcon toy to be on scale to the figures (so they could walk under it at least). The "real" Outrider would board just like the Falcon.

As you might have guessed, A Falcon on scale with the action figures would have also been maybe 200% larger than the toy we have, as well. But the decision was made (probably wisely from Hasbro's perspective) to make the Outrider on scale with the toy Falcon we already had. That just sucks, doesn't it? (both vehicles' sizes)

Finally, the "real" Outrider does not convert into a "B-wing" type of fight mode. If that were a real feature of the ship, could you imaging the technical difficulties in designing an axis tube that pivots through the entire hull - and seals off the ship from the vacuum of space?

I voted for Slave-One!

Obehave Kenobi
04-05-2002, 03:01 AM
I'm with you Tycho. Both ships are out of scale, but Slave 1 is much closer to how it appears in the Star Wars universe. At least Boba Fett has a place to store his bounties in. How is Dash supposed to smuggle/ transport anything in that ship of his? I applauded them for trying to make a new ship from scratch, but I thought it might be better off if they stuck with using old molds when I actually laid eyes on it. Slave 1 wins this round no question. When I have to choose between THIS Slave 1 and the new one, however.........:D :D :D

jedi master sal
04-05-2002, 07:21 AM
This was an unfair match up from the beginning. There are plenty more Boba Fett/Slave One fans out there than Dash/Outrider. You get popularity votes just for the appeal of the character and the fact that Slave one is more prominent than Outrider (Especially now with the advent of EPII). I would bet that many of the vote are cast because of this and not the toy itself. Wolfwood319 describe's it best what the Outrider is trying to be. Slave One is a unique ship with no discernable look to anything real or previously made in all of sci-fi. I think that the original design coupled with the cult following of Boba doomed the Outrider from the start.

pthfnder89
04-05-2002, 09:27 AM
Originally posted by jedi master sal
Wolfwood319 describe's it best what the Outrider is trying to be. Slave One is a unique ship with no discernable look to anything real or previously made in all of sci-fi. I think that the original design coupled with the cult following of Boba doomed the Outrider from the start.

Maybe but that doesn't have any effect on my vote.

I was extremely excited about the Outrider coming out. I had seen it in the comics and I had even gotten to fly it in the PC game. But once I had it in my hands, it really started to **** me off. Like Tycho said, it should have been much bigger; the Outrider is a freighter, not a starfighter. (am I wrong or didn't they even call it a starfighter on the box somwhere?) I don't even think it is on scale with the current Falcon.

Secondly, the rotating cockpit just doesn't make any sense at all. What possible function could that serve? It doesn't make the ship any thinner, in fact it makes it a larger target and easier to shoot down. So wtf? Also the side gun is ridiculous; If you're going to spend a YEAR or more designing and planning a story and vehicles like they did with Shadows of the Empire, WHY DON'T YOU STAY CONSISTENT? That wasn't how the Outrider was designed and it isn't how it should have been made by Hasbro.

So Slave 1 gets my vote, moetly because I think the Outrider was such a wasted opportunity by Hasbro.:(

Lman316
04-05-2002, 11:58 AM
Originally posted by Tycho

Don't get me wrong: I'm really glad they made it, and before it was even added to the Special Edition (of A New Hope), I was stoked that Hasbro was making Expanded Universe stuff - vehicles especially! I have my Outrider proudly on display still, and I can see it from my desk as I'm typing right now.


This might be a silly question, and if it is, feel free to delete this message :D , but I never saw the Outrider in ANH - did I miss something?
Could anyone possibly tell me where this ship is seen in ANH? Is it one of those things you have to look really hard for, and it's only on screen for like a second?

I voted for Slave 1, myself. I don't know, I guess the Outrider looked too much like the Millenium Falcon, and it was an EU vehicle. The Slave 1 just looks better, IMO, and has more to do with the Star Wars saga, it would seem.
That's really all I have to go on, as I don't have either of these toys. I had thought about buying a Slave 1, but I'm going to wait until the AOTC version comes out.

CaptainSolo1138
04-05-2002, 12:14 PM
I agree with all the previous posts, so me leaving one is kind of a waste of space:p But ("Fett factor" not withstanding), I think Slave I was an overall better toy. You couldn't really do much with the Outrider as far as playability, but it was a cool looking ship. It's too bad it wasn't bigger. Like, you know, the size of the gun the Dash Rendar figure came with:)

PSST....You can see the Outrider leaving Mos Eisley in ANH SE during the overhead shot when Luke, Obi-Wan, etc. are arriving.

Rollo Tomassi
04-05-2002, 12:27 PM
The general concensus seems to be that the Outrider is not really the Outrider at all, but some kind of mutant fighter sized ship like an O-Wing or something. And if you bought them when they were on clearance, you could have a whole squadron of O-Wings.:rolleyes: This was a totally unfair match-up Tycho. Maybe you could do a CruiseMissile Trooper vs. Power F/X X-Wing and make it a little more fair.;)

Point goes to Slave-1.

I can't wait until round two when we are getting odd match ups like Millenuim Falcon vs the Speeder bike.:D

Mandalorian Candidat
04-05-2002, 02:58 PM
No contest here. The Slave I rips Dash and his wannabe Falcon a new one, actually several new ones.

I don't have the Outrider, because it came out before I started collecting, but it doesn't look like it matches up to all the extras that the Slave I has. All you get with it besides landing gear is the lame-o tilt feature. I go with Wolfwood on this one. It looks like someone at Hasbro or Lucasfilm or where ever tried to make some kind of bastard Falcon-BWing hybrid.

The next one we have to decide is Slave I SOTE/POTF vs. Slave I AOTC.

Tycho
04-05-2002, 03:18 PM
We are almost done with the preliminary rounds, so there wasn't much left to match up.

There's another starfighter matchup coming up next week - and it should be a fairly closer fight. I kept all the Classic Starfighters together so they could have at it without "favorite movie bias," etc. For examples, the X-wing faced the TIE Fighter and the A-wing took on the Interceptor in the preliminaries. They are going to stay in the same "weight class" for the next few rounds until one of them emerges a victor. IF the speederbike makes it out of the Quarterfinals, what difference does it make if it takes on ANY one of these starfighters? (to the average person, not the world's biggest bikerscout fan, I mean)

Anyway, for the same reason, the N-1 isn't facing a Classic Starfighter right away, as the ship's merits has nothing to do with whether you like TPM less than the Classic movies, but I am going to add to the discussion in the Quarterfinals, whether you think the Losers amongst the preliminaries, could have faired better against the victors that the challengers from their latest match up faced. In otherwords, could the A-wing have beaten the X-wing if it hadn't already lost to the Interceptor? Sometimes ships are being beaten so bad, it's not worth asking. Other times, we should look at whether we were fair.

The Snowspeeder faced the AT-AT because it was quite honestly a classic match we saw in the actual movie. It's loss was a sure thing, most likely, but when we figure out who the starfighter winner is, could the snowspeeder have defeated that ship? Is anything from that classification going to be able to defeat the AT-AT? If the answer is yes, then it matters. Trust me, I will look into it.

You guys seem to suggest you want the ships ranked? The Losers included the TIE Fighter, Snowspeeder, and A-wing. Which one of those is better than the next, sort of thing, eh? I have been toying with ideas on how to do this, probably with an extra poll, but maybe we should get the preliminaries done first? - Episode 2 stuff is coming out awfully fast and you guys are going to want to see those vehicles in the matches as soon as they come out (well almost - I have to give you guys time to find them and buy them. May 10 and 17 will be Episode Two vehicles in the Preliminaries).

As far as ranking the other vehicles, I've also been recording the statistics on how much they win or lose by. The Scoutwalker's victory is by far the most impressive, as more people voted in that fight than any other match. So it doesn't matter if the T-16 could have beat the Outrider as well, it never would have outgunned the AT-ST with the support the Scoutwalker has around here!

As to the Cruisemissle Trooper and the 3 EU vehicles (airspeeder, single-pod cloud car, and that lazy-boy speederbike), plus the F/X X-wing: I'm leaving them out of it. I strongly doubt there's a lot of fan support for those vehicles anyway, but the Outrider actually was in the movie. Same with the swoop bike (though not the rider). Yes I know the F/X X-wing is a different case - and that's precisely the point. It's actually on real-scale with the action figures, but is it a toy accessory for them, or is it a model-prop with electronics? You can't take figures in and out of it (by design anyway) and TIE Fighters are larger than X-wings (watch the movie), so you can't make the F/X X-wing fight anything... what is it in scale to? (Luke's landspeeder probably....)

So these vehicles are out.

That comes back to your question: what should Slave-One have been matched up against?

There's only 8 vehicles left that haven't had a prelimary fight and are eligible for matchups (and have been released already). There will be 10 more Preliminary fights total, but the E2 stuff will happen after I think you guys have had time to buy it and take it out of the box. So it is possible than the two Slave-One ships (SOTE and AOTC) will face off with one another, but let them get that far first. Again, what's the point? Only one will win. I don't want to get into which was better: ESB or AOTC? You can't even answer that for certain now, and it has nothing to do with the features on the toys. But it's also why I don't think the Jedi Starfighter should jump into the fray right now, either. (because a lot of you DO have that ship by now). The Jedi ship WILL fight in the Preliminaries, just not yet.

The Outrider and Slave-One were both marketed as SOTE (Shadows of the Empire toys). So I thought it was best.

The last 4 "older movie" matches include 2 more starfighter "dog-fights" and 2 "land vehicle fights" - neither of which is fair to pit the Outrider against either. One is a very small, light-vehicle match, the winner who will face the speederbike in the Quarterfinals. And the other is a mid-size vehicle match between land-crafts that can hold 4, 5 or more figures.

So Slave-One seemed to be the best choice for an opponent for the Outrider. But I just doubt that the older Slave-One will make it out of the Quarterfinals, so it didn't matter to much to me that it's going to trounce all over the Outrider now.

Anyway, there's some method to how I pick 'em for these fights, but we'll be careful and double-check our results after each Quarterfinal gets settled, and so-on after that.

The Quarterfinals start May 24.

The Semi-Finals are scheduled to begin July 19

The Finals will be August 16.

The Title Match? - August 30!!!


With each match you guys can continue discussing what you liked and didn't like about each vehicle, and new people can come in and take a walk down nostalgia's lane (or bask in the glory of brand new finds - coming to Battle of the Machines very soon!)

Anyway, this thread is about Dash Rendar's OUTRIDER, and Boba Fett's SLAVE-ONE!

Post away!

(and your opinions on the matchups are still -and always - welcome!)

odb
04-05-2002, 03:31 PM
If you take the actual ships then I'd have to choose the Outrider over Slave I. But since we're limited to toys it would have to be Slave I, the Outrider was a truly bad mould. Don't get me wrong I applaud Hasbro for making a totally new ship but its horribly out of scale and some of the detailing looks clumsy.

Tycho I think you were right in matching these up a they are both modified starships, plus one is a 'good guy' ship and the other a 'bad guy' ship. So it seems to be a fair match.

Beast
04-05-2002, 03:33 PM
Gotta go with the Slave 1 in this match up, just to the massive scaling problems with the Outrider. I love the look of the Outrider, but it's nowhere near the correct scale. The Slave 1 is also a tad small, but not quite as bad. It will be an intresting match up if the new E2 Slave 1 comes up against the old Slave 1 in a later match. :)

I also can't support the Outrider, cause the other ship that was supposed to come out with it, was cancelled. Xizor's Virago would have been such a great ship, but Hasbro never got past designing her. I still remember the pictures of the foamcore design model. :(

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Dak Powers
04-05-2002, 04:11 PM
I thought both ways... I mean, sure, the Slave I beats the Outrider toy wise, but what ship would win in a real (?) battle? Close one, I think... Outrider's got the firepower, but the Slave I has the small size and manauverability.

Who would win? You decide!

Point to Slave I though, toy-wise... Sure, the Outrider is awesome and all, but the unfairness kicks in cos I like Fett ten times better than I like Rendar.

eliwankenobi
04-05-2002, 04:30 PM
i voted for the slave 1 just because its a funky, beat-up ship that proves it can take a pounding and keep on going - not to mention it's piloted by a couple of the baddest bounty hunters in the galaxy!
that's not to say that the outrider doesn't deserve it's due credit. as depicted by numerous drawings and renderings, the outrider is one sweet-looking ship with a lot of potential. hasbro's interpretation of the outrider was rather disappointing. i think in their eagerness to appeal to a younger generation at the time it was released by utilizing big guns and "transforming" features they turned what could have been a great ship into just a mediocre toy. i'd love to see a "resculpt" of the outrider down the line.

LusiferSam
04-05-2002, 08:58 PM
I like the Outrider and all (it is kind of a cool design), but I like Slave-1 better. My biggest beef is that the POFT2 Fett doesn't fit all that well in it. Dash fits into the Outrider fine.

bigbarada
04-06-2002, 12:36 AM
Boba Fett vs. Dash Rendar? I pick Boba.

"Real" Slave 1 vs. "real" Outrider? I pick Slave 1.

Toy Slave 1 vs. toy Outrider? I pick Slave 1.

You can't get much more cut and dry than that.

2-1B
04-06-2002, 12:48 AM
I second bigb's post, and I'm not even part of the Fett "cult". I dislike the inclusion of Rendar, it seemed weak to introduce a rehashed Han Solo just because he's in carbonite limbo.
So I cast a vote in favor of Fett's ship, while not voting from a Fett POV. ;)

Oh yeah, and the Slave I replaced my lost vintage model, that was exciting! :)

JediTricks
04-06-2002, 01:41 AM
I like the design of the SOTE Outrider vehicle in the books and the Micro Machines and the Video Game and even the dang comic (which I didn't like anywhere near as much as the book and the game), but I just don't like the Hasbro Outrider, it's a real dog. It doesn't look right and it can't really even fit a figure in the cockpit, this thing sucks! I actually went out and got the Rawcliffe Pewter Outrider instead of buying the Hasbro one, and I am not a pewter-buyer usually.

I'm no fan of that old Kenner Slave I, it's hollow and bland and misshapen, but it's a huge sight better than the Hasbro Outrider.

The True Maul
04-09-2002, 03:50 PM
I Gotta Go with Slave 1 with a ruthless strong Bounty Hunter at it's controls and awesome weapons what more could you want from a ship like this.