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Darkross
04-10-2002, 11:33 AM
Question 1:
How come Jedi can't sense Sith Lords...but Sith can sense Jedi?

Answer 1:
I mean Luke sensed Darth Vader's presence in Jedi "Vader's on that ship!" "He's here now...on this moon....I felt his presence!" because I believe that he sensed the good in him. ???

Question 2:
How come the Emperor couldn't sense Luke's presence when he and the rest penetrated the energy shield?

Answer 2:
I think that Luke and Vader shared the same midichlorian / force signature...therefore perhaps Vader's signature was clouding Luke's...perhaps that's why the Emperor couldn't sense his presence. ???

Question 3:
What about Qui-Gon, or Obi-Wan...not sensing Darth Maul until he entered the hangar bay?

Answer 3:
Maybe they did...but I have no real explanation for this one. Anyone else have ideas on these questions three?

stillakid
04-10-2002, 11:39 AM
Question 1:
How come Jedi can't sense Sith Lords...but Sith can sense Jedi?

Answer 1:
Lucas has no cohesive line of reasoning for who can sense who. Characters sense one another at times that are convenient to moving the story forward.

Question 2:
How come the Emperor couldn't sense Luke's presence when he and the rest penetrated the energy shield?

Answer 2:
See answer 1. And Midichlorians weren't invented in the saga until the late 1990's, so until the Special Special Editions of the OT are released, there will be no way to make sense between the Force in the Prequels and the Force in the OT.

Question 3:
What about Qui-Gon, or Obi-Wan...not sensing Darth Maul until he entered the hangar bay?

Answer 3:
See answer 1. If they sense the bad guy, then the "reveal" wouldn't have the dramatic impact that Lucas wanted.

JEDIpartner
04-10-2002, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by Darkross
Question 2:
How come the Emperor couldn't sense Luke's presence when he and the rest penetrated the energy shield?

Didn't the Vader sense him on the shuttle and didn't the Emperor say that Vader was go down to "the sanctuary moon" and await him. Maybe Vader just said it before Palpatine did...

Darkross
04-10-2002, 12:01 PM
Originally posted by JEDIpartnr


Didn't the Vader sense him on the shuttle and didn't the Emperor say that Vader was go down to "the sanctuary moon" and await him. Maybe Vader just said it before Palpatine did...

No...

Emperor - "I thought I told you to remain on the command ship!"

Vader - "A small band of rebels has penetrated the energy shield and landed on Endor"

Emperor - "Yes I know!"

Vader - "My son is with them!"

Emperor - "Are you sure?"

Vader - "I have felt him!"

Emperor - "Strange that I have not! Are you sure your feelings on this matter are clear Lord Vader?"

Vader - "They are clear my master"

Emperor - "Then you must go the Sanctuary moon and wait for him!"

Vader - "He will come to me?"

Emperor - "I have forseen it! His compassion for you will be his undoing. He will come to you and then you will bring him before me!"

Vader - "As you wish!"

The Emperor admits to Vader that he didn't sense Luke until after Vader told him about Luke being with the rebels on Endor.

JEDIpartner
04-10-2002, 01:10 PM
Ahh... yes- see... I'm at work and thinking of work... not the film! Hahahaha!!! Thanks for the nudge, buddy! :D

Okay... back to work!

Lobito
04-10-2002, 04:18 PM
Yoda once said: "Hard to see the dark side its" so that should help us in the questions, as for Luke sensing Vader...hmmm maybe thats a connection between father and son, hopefully all would be revealed with the next two films.

Wolfwood319
04-10-2002, 04:31 PM
I never understood how the Emperor didn't "sense" Luke on Endor, but he did "forsee" Luke going to Vader. Wouldn't he also ''forseen" Luke coming to Endor?

Darkross
04-11-2002, 07:14 AM
Originally posted by Wolfwood319
I never understood how the Emperor didn't "sense" Luke on Endor, but he did "forsee" Luke going to Vader. Wouldn't he also ''forseen" Luke coming to Endor?

That too has always bugged me. But maybe once he knew that Luke was on Endor (after Vader told him) he was able to forsee how Luke would surrender himself to Vader. Maybe he forsaw Luke surrendering to Vader long before Luke arrived on Endor...and thus when Vader told him that Luke was on Endor, the Emperor just told Vader what he forsaw about Luke.

RooJay
04-11-2002, 11:52 PM
Originally posted by Wolfwood319
I never understood how the Emperor didn't "sense" Luke on Endor, but he did "forsee" Luke going to Vader. Wouldn't he also ''forseen" Luke coming to Endor?

Maybe he foresaw Luke seeking out Vader but never foresaw exactly how or where this would occur...

"Hard to see, the future is..."

DarthMaulSithLord
04-16-2002, 05:08 PM
I think Vader "masked" Luke's presence for The Emperor. My proof? This piece of dialogue:

Vader - "I have felt him!"

Emperor - "Strange that I have not! Are you sure your feelings on this matter are clear Lord Vader?"

I am particularly talking about the part in bold, which shows that the Emperor is scolding Vader.

:D

stillakid
04-16-2002, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by DarthMaulSithLord
I think Vader "masked" Luke's presence for The Emperor. My proof? This piece of dialogue:

Vader - "I have felt him!"

Emperor - "Strange that I have not! Are you sure your feelings on this matter are clear Lord Vader?"

I am particularly talking about the part in bold, which shows that the Emperor is scolding Vader.

:D

If Vader is trying to "mask" Luke's presence in the first place, then why would he say the first line "I have felt him." ? Of course the Emperor is wary of Vader's relationship with Luke and recognizes that either Luke could sway Vader to his side, or more likely at that point, the Emperor fears that Vader will turn Luke, then the both of them will take the Emperor down. So Vader has a reason to "mask" Luke's presence indeed, but the dialogue and Vader's actions don't back it up.

DarthMaulSithLord
04-16-2002, 05:30 PM
Maybe The Emperor could tell he was lying so Vader felt he would be better off telling his master the truth or something.

:)

RooJay
04-16-2002, 06:09 PM
Some of the materials (can't recall right now which ones) from the EU actually imply that Vader intended, from the beginning, to have Luke join him in overthrowing the Emperor.

"Join me, and together we will rule the galaxy as father and son"

Would've been kinda hard for them to rule with the Emperor in the way.
I still maintain that Palpatine simply had not been expecting Luke on Endor, since he could not see clearly when and where Luke would come to Vader. Perhaps Vader was trying to mask his plans to have Luke help him betray Palpy. Maybe in that way Vader was trying to mask Lukes presence.

stillakid
04-16-2002, 06:34 PM
I think that you're right, Roojay, about that. I personally think, though, that the Emperor claimed to see things when he really hadn't. The line that always cried out to me in that way, was right after all of this. Vader says, "He will come to me?"

The Emperor kind of sits back and quite egotisically goes into his next line as if he's trying to impress somebody: "I have foreseen it. His compassion for you will be his undoing..."etc etc.

It always sounded to me like he was just making that part up, about foreseeing all of that. His attitude, the delivery (the annunciation ;) ) all point to a certain amount of uncomfortableness. Afterall, Vader just came to him telling him that he had an experience that the boss didn't. Not to be outdone and show any weakness (of the Force, or foresight, or whatever), the Emperor gets all cocky, sits back, and concocts some story that one-ups Vader's mere "sensing" ability. Then he gives Vader an order (to go away) just to top it all off and remind him who's in charge.

Sith Lord 0498
04-16-2002, 08:04 PM
I agree with you. Remember: Palpatine is predominantly a politician and thus his manipulative and deceitful abilities have had sufficient practice. Until his unleashing of the Sith lightning, it almost seems as if the Emperor is relatively powerless in the Force because he never gives any indication of his power. He always appears to be manipulating people through actions and words.

Also, Palpatine appears to be overly self-absorbed and too preoccupied with his design of things. It's entirely possible that while he may possess a greater sensitivity than Darth Vader, he neglects using it because he already assumes he knows how things will end up (i.e. - always bragging that everything is going "as planned", "as I have forseen", etc. etc.)

Remember: "Your overconfidence is your weakness." --Luke Skywalker to the Emperor

Darkross
04-17-2002, 11:52 AM
Originally posted by stillakid
I think that you're right, Roojay, about that. I personally think, though, that the Emperor claimed to see things when he really hadn't. The line that always cried out to me in that way, was right after all of this. Vader says, "He will come to me?"

The Emperor kind of sits back and quite egotisically goes into his next line as if he's trying to impress somebody: "I have foreseen it. His compassion for you will be his undoing..."etc etc.

It always sounded to me like he was just making that part up, about foreseeing all of that. His attitude, the delivery (the annunciation ;) ) all point to a certain amount of uncomfortableness. Afterall, Vader just came to him telling him that he had an experience that the boss didn't. Not to be outdone and show any weakness (of the Force, or foresight, or whatever), the Emperor gets all cocky, sits back, and concocts some story that one-ups Vader's mere "sensing" ability. Then he gives Vader an order (to go away) just to top it all off and remind him who's in charge.

Interesting Theory!