View Full Version : Good for you Hayden, have a Camel on me.

04-13-2002, 10:39 PM
I'm posting this in reaction to the newspaper article linked at TFN.

So he's a smoker, I'm happy for him. :) Personally I don't smoke, I'm almost 24 and have never cared to start, but it's refreshing to see a young celeb fess up and act like it's no big deal. I'm tired of all those The Truth ads, where they "highlight" the conspiracies of the big evil tobacco companies. It seems so hip and trendy to decry the dangers of smoking, and I find it refreshing that our young Anakin can say he does it even though he knows it's "stupid" and that he doesn't condone it.

04-13-2002, 11:05 PM
Good points Caeser, besides the oldest woman alive right now is 118 years old and when asked what he secret is to long life she says that it's looking foward to her next drink and cigarette. Way to go lady, hell if it keeps you alive that long, go for it. :D

I myself choose not to smoke, other then the occassional cigar. And I think that some people really should quit for their health. But if a woman can live to 118 smoking and drinking. Then I think complaining about smoking should be the least of most people's worries. So I hope that people don't come down hard on Hayden.


Jar Jar Binks

Dar' Argol
04-13-2002, 11:12 PM
I'd light up with him anytime:D.
The thing that really bothers me is people say "You know that's bad for you".
"Then why do you do it?"
"Because it MY CHOICE!"
Anyway they say it takes off so much time off the end of your life. Well, isn't that the suckiest part anyway? The time when you can't feed yourself and you have to get your Depends changed every half hour and you can drive anywhere b/c you might kill someone and . . . . . . .

On that note, I'm gonna go have a ciggy:D

04-13-2002, 11:18 PM
Originally posted by Dar' Argol
I'd light up with him anytime:D.
The thing that really bothers me is people say "You know that's bad for you".
"Then why do you do it?"
"Because it MY CHOICE!"
Anyway they say it takes off so much time off the end of your life. Well, isn't that the suckiest part anyway? The time when you can't feed yourself and you have to get your Depends changed every half hour and you can drive anywhere b/c you might kill someone and . . . . . . . On that note, I'm gonna go have a ciggy:D
Yeah, I bet if that 118 year old lady would have never smoked or drank she might live what, an extra 6 months over the time she will die because she smoked and drank. Remember, it's not the cigarette's that kills ya...it's the lung cancer you can get from them. :D


Jar Jar Binks

04-13-2002, 11:22 PM
I don't smoke either, but I'm tired of those "Truth" ads. They really annoy me now. A lot of people smoke and still live long lives. My grandparenst have smoked everyday since they were teens, and they're pushing 80 now and in very decent health.

I don't mind smokers at all, I figure, do what makes you happy. I really hate people who try to tell other people what to do though.

04-14-2002, 12:26 AM
I think if you've lived past 100 and are a regular smoker, the most dagerous thing to do at that point would be to stop smoking.

I don't smoke, even though I made a conscious effort to start while I was in the Army. Eventually I just got bored of it and stopped. However, I don't buy the whole second-hand smoke can kill you scare at all. So, you're telling me that some guy who smokes four packs a day for twenty years sits by me for twenty minutes in the airport and I'm going to die before him? Please!

Although, if that 118 year old lady is any indication, I just might.:)

Anyhoo, kudos to Hayden for just being himself and not getting swept up in the whole PC "truth" thing.

04-14-2002, 12:41 AM
I never smoked, yet I've probably got worse teeth and physical health than most smokers I know. Life's been hard enough on me without smoking.

04-14-2002, 12:52 AM
Well, I smoked for 9 years!

I hate those "Truth" ads!

I hate people telling smokers to quite (ESPECIALLY EX-Smokers)!

I hate laws that prohibit smoking!

I support anyone's right to smoke as long as they are of LEGAL age!

I quite smoking the day my daughter was born. And I will never smoke again. My family has a history of health problems related to smoking, so I chose to quite.

Lowly Bantha Cleaner
04-14-2002, 12:59 AM
I disagree with you guys on this one. It is not that I am frowning down on Hayden for lighting up a cigge now and then (if he wants to erase 10 minutes from his life, then fine). The problem that bugs me is when your decision of smoking affects someone other than you! I myself am a little sensitive to cigarette smoke. I immediately break off into a little coughing fit whenever I inhale tobacco smoke. Yeah, when I go to bars or restaurants or when I am out with my friends, I expect people to smoke and have a good time. However, the consequences a smoker faces when lighting up should only be reaped by them and no one else. When you start to bother someone else, then it becomes wrong. Oh yeah, and I might be paying with my tax money, Hayden or someone else's medical care down the road, because they decided to spend their life smoking cancer sticks.

And as far as "the truth," is concerned, I have no beef with what they are doing. The character, integrity and overall contribution to society that tobacco companies and their executives bring, ranks right up there with I.R.S. employees, Congressman, and used car salesmen. I don't know exactly every detail and plan these execs have used over the years to increase the potency and addictiveness of their products and the methods they have used to try to hook in young smokers, but if I found out all of their schemes and plans, I would be tarrin' and featherin' anyone with the last name of Reynolds.

Oh yeah, my mom smoked lots of cigarettes when she was pregnant with myself and looked how I turned out. Guess that is another reason to why I am venting. :mad:

Mandalorian Candidat
04-14-2002, 01:21 AM
I'm probably going to catch hell from this, but here it goes...

It's one thing if smoking only effects you, but an entire different thing when that cancerous crap is blown all around you. It is so annoying to be near someone, especially in a big crowd, who is puffing like a smokestack.

I'm so glad all those nonsmoking laws were passed. Now you can walk around the mall, go to a restaurant, and go about your business without having to smell that nasty smoke. That's why I would never go into a casino. They reek from all the smokers sitting there night and day puffing along.

I understand that quitting smoking is really tough. I worked with a guy who smoked for forty years since he was 14 and it took him tons of gum and sweating it out to stop. That's great you could quit when your daughter was born sith killer. It sounds like you were hassled a lot to quit, but finally did it when you were finally ready. Why the problem with the anti-smoking laws, though? If it's bad, then why not sequester that habit to a location where it minimizes exposure to people who don't want to breath smoke?

I'm not trying to hassle anyone here, just curious as to why many people seem to be anti-antismoking on this thread.

04-14-2002, 01:28 AM
Poor Burt Reynolds...he never hurt nobody!!!:cry:


But seriously, I think it all comes down to BALANCE!!!

As a smoker, I was polite enough NOT to smoke around those that were sensative to it, I would simply go somewhere else. Or if I noticed that someone was bothered by it I would put it out.

I do not allow smoking in my house, and I keep my daughter away from cigarette smoke. My wife quite as soon as she realized that she was pregnant, and I didn't smoke around her. As soon as she was born I too quite.

I agree that smoking in SOME places is inappropriate.

However, MOST laws have gone OVERBOARD! When a restaurant owner is told that noone can smoke in HIS building/establishment, I have a problem with that.

In Boulder CO people are not even allowed to smoke in their OWN cars. They can be fined for it, or even walking down the street smoking a cigarette.

These are examples of SOCIALISM my friends!

My whole problem is that we are seeing a pendulem effect.

Before people could smoke in planes, with closed cabins, where non-smokers were forced to breath second hand smoke.

Now, in some cities people can't even smoke in their own cars, or out in the open, walking down the street.

Mandalorian Candidat
04-14-2002, 01:39 AM
Well, that's different. If it's in your own home or car you should be able to do it. However, once you throw that butt out the window, I'm all in favor of that person getting a litterbug fine.

04-14-2002, 02:35 AM
Nice discussion. :)

I grew up with parents who smoke (they still do) as well as many other relatives and friends who enjoy the taste of poisonous chemicals cigarettes. It's my personal opinion that it's kinda disgusting.

As for the companies that sell them, of course they are crooked, I just don't like the way this "grassroots" method seeks to jab at them. Stop talking to me as if it's not obvious. ;) Ugh, now in Wisconsin there's a whole series of "clever" ads promoting a state antismoking website. I can only stand so much.

I'll paraphrase Dennis Miller in saying, "you didn't smoking was bad for you? how could you not know? It's F ' ING SMOKE! Would you stand downwind from a fire and breathe big gulps?" :D

I think consideration for those around you SHOULD be a given, but it's rude that some people are not so thoughtful. Still, I've experienced many people showing great awareness for those around them, I think some smokers get a bad rap. :)

04-14-2002, 04:06 AM
I don't smoke and probably never will, my Mom smokes and being that dependent on something (Nicotene) like that just drives me away from it. The thing about the "truth" ads is that instead of just putting up these useless commercials which are usually pretty boring, why don't they use the money that they spend on commercials to help fund a better way to HELP people quit smoking and stop telling them to just stop.

04-14-2002, 10:47 AM
actually i don't think "they"want anyone to quit smoking. do yall know who is paying for those "truth"ads? the tobacco companies.
it's from the money the government extorted from them with their big law suits to re-coup expences for medi care patients.

i like limbaugh's view of the whole subject:

"if you care about children, if you want them to have medical insurance, you, my firends, have a duty to keep smoking. and if you don't smoke, start today! buy a few packs so the kiddies will have free government health insurance. think of the chil'ren"

of course, the government loves the taxes it recieves from this product, and they continue to pay off tobacco farmers. and as we have seen, they have squandered the money they extorted from the tobacco companies they were supposed to use to re-imburse medicare.

so where is the rubber cat? did anyone figure out his riddle?

04-14-2002, 12:03 PM
Good points Derek, I too have heard that Big Tobacco pays for those "Truth" ads.

Strange that our own Government subsidizes tobacco farmers and sticks it to Big Tobacco.

I also find it funny that the Gore family (yes, good ol' Al's family) made their fortune from tobacco. And yet he is so big on pointing the finger at the tobacco industry. HA!

It's all about MONEY folks! Getting $$$$ from a billion dollar industry!

Big Tobacco lies!

Big Government lies!
The "Truth" lies!

Trust noone, use common sense, and think for yourself.

I chose to smoke, I started at the age of 18 and I knew the dangers. I ENJOYED smoking for 9 years. I chose to quite for my own reasons, most of all for my daughter.

Big Tobacco does not tell kids to smoke. The biggest advertisement for smoking is PARENTS. Kids see their parents smoking and they pick it up. This is a FACT people! Not ALL kids, but MANY.

As a parent I chose to take the RESPONSIBILITY on MYSELF, instead of pointing a finger at Big Tobacco, or Big Government, or anyone else.

I do not criticize or persecute smokers for doing their thing. Mainly because I did not appreciate it when others did it to me. It never made ME want to quite!!! If anything it only stressed me out more and made me light up again!

IMO, a big part of what is wrong in society today is that noone wants to take responsibility for their OWN actions. The cycle of finger pointing HAS to stop!

Slowly getting down off of my soap box now and backing away.

Sorry if I got a little carried away.

04-14-2002, 12:06 PM
Hmmmm, as a smoker for about 17 years I have to say I have mixed feelings about cancer sticks. I'm an addict, any smoker is. I recognise that to some people it's an anti-social addiction. So's getting drunk and so's driving while talking into bloody cell phones. Do we have to quantify the 'badness' of each vice now?
If Hayden is a smoker then so what? Jeez, these people make it sound like he's a child pornographer or something. get some bloody perspective people! He probably smokes like a girl anyway.

04-14-2002, 12:11 PM


...smokes like a girl...


just a little levity;)

Mike Troxell
04-14-2002, 12:43 PM
God, I'm so going to get shot, stabbed, and maimed for this....I think smoking is filthy and stupid. I never tell someone not to smoke, but I feel life is too short and too good to waste by using those addictive sticks of death. I understand people who got hooked as youngsters before the diseases and such became proven fact, but every day I see more and more young people at school start and get hooked. I simply can't express the rage I feel at that. And if you do decide to smoke, don't do it near nonsmokers, especially kids. It's already enough of a shame that you're hurting yourself, but hurting your kids or others is more stupid. (Thank you Sith Killer for correcting my stupidity when calling something stupid ;) )

But that's just me.

04-14-2002, 12:48 PM
Star Wars fans of the world, unite! Bring back the Yak Face ads! :D

04-14-2002, 02:26 PM
Mike, I believe it's, more stupid.


TOO serious.

Bring back the Yak!!!

04-14-2002, 07:01 PM
I don't have a problem with people who smoke... unless they insist on making me stop my car every 30 minutes to do so. I also don't like kissing a hand that's just been holding a cigarette or a mouth that's been smoking one... wash your hands and have a mint! Otherwise... have at it!

p.s.- my partner's a smoker... so I really don't have a problem with it.

04-14-2002, 10:52 PM
As someone who has nearly died from second-hand smoke on more than one occasion (and no, I am not speaking in hyperbole), I say to you who claim it isn't nearly as dangerous as suggested: "Let me hit you in the lungs with a sledgehammer several times and then sit on your chest and tell you that sledgehammers aren't bad for your health."

I am sorry if that seems harsh, but so does having to suck heart-damaging medicines just to allow me to breathe again simply because grandma had to have one more cigarette or some jerk couldn't get a table in the non-smoking section. These days, I can power through smoke in short-term situations, but even items I buy on ebay that come from smokers' homes are too dangerous to keep in my room for at least a few weeks. When the neighbors in my building started having parties downstairs with a few smokers present, I stopped being able to sleep because I couldn't draw enough air. We live in an age where corporations have polluted our air so badly over the past 70 years that asthma rates have shot way up, something like 8 times in the past 20 years IIRC.

I am just citing one little piece of the issue because it's close to me, but I've had many non-asthmatic friends affected by second-hand smoke as well and I am sure they would like to offer you that sledgehammer argument as well.

Lord Tenebrous
04-15-2002, 12:20 AM
I was an occassional smoker for about eight months, then I quit on the last day of my freshman year in college. I guess what led me to it was my fondness for the scent of unsmoked tobacco. That soft, robust scent you get when you walk through that store aisle.

I still crave cigars on occasion, but now that I'm on Paxil, it's like a cigarette and a beer wrapped in one little pill. Not that I'm doing it because of that, but I believe the depression that almost got the better of me led me to consume more cigars and rum than I'd care to admit. Same brain-receptor effect, only for less time, which means you feel even worse when they're gone.

I'm not for or against it, I just want Truth to stop playing their ad every five minutes at the theatre, and I want smokers to stop throwing their c-butts out of their car windows.

Heh heh...one time I took all the tobacco out of a pack of Reds, then I crushed up a whole bunch of peanut shells and repacked the paper...smoking that was definately interesting. And less addictive, too. :crazed:

04-15-2002, 01:23 AM
It's sad when ads supposedly promoting the truth about the dangers of smoking are more veiled and annoying than ads about California cheese! :D

04-15-2002, 02:44 AM
Originally posted by Lowly Bantha Cleaner
It is not that I am frowning down on Hayden for lighting up a cigge now and then (.if he wants to erase 10 minutes from his life, then fine ).

i would seriously like someone to explain how them idiots came up with that dumb statistic. its all BS, there is no posible way that you can figure that out, unless you could travel through time. :rolleyes:

Eternal Padawan
04-15-2002, 09:14 AM
I think Hayden should realize he's about to become a status/role model for millions of children across the world. Seeing Anakin Skywalker smoking might encourage the next generation to light up. I don't mean that one man has the power to change millions of minds, but as a pop culture icon in the making, he is definitely a factor. It probably hasn't hit him yet, but accepting this role has painted him with that brush and he needs to think about what he does in those terms. For that reason alone, even if he doesn't quit, he shouldn't go out of his way to publicly proclaim he's a smoker.

There are more carcinogens, tar, and nicotine in second hand smoke then there are in the smoke that gets inhaled. This is because smokers exhale roughly 85% of the smoke and only 15% gets into their lungs. I don't care if you smoke in your house or your car, but ANY public area should be off limits to smokers. Restaurants. Parks. Anywhere.

I hate smoking. My sister almost died of a smoking related cancer (thankfully it's in remission). I encourage everybody I know who smokes to stop.

I think it's laughable that the gov't subsidizes tobacco farmers and then pours just as much money into anto smoking campaigns (which ARE ridiculous. I heard one the other day that suggested cigarettes make you impotent. Don't know the veracity of that, but the ad seemed to ENCOURAGE teenage sex instead of smoking. C'MON people... :rolleyes: ) I don't think they should ban cigarettes, I think they should BAN nicotine. Does anybody else feel it's stupid to make marijuana and other substances illegal, but make the biggest killers (Alcohol and Nicotine) legal? I don't use ANY substances (except caffiene, Mountain Dew anyone?) and they can ban all of them for all I care. But keeping the two deadliest ones legal is hypocritical. Legalize weed and tax the hell out of that. THERE's your cash cow. Not only would it create income for the country, it would free up all the "criminals" doing time for selling weed. I know the tobacco companies have been prepping ads and packaging for pot for decades, just in case it happens.

04-15-2002, 09:51 AM
I have friends and family that smoke and it doesnt bother me because nearly all of them smoke outside and clean up their cigarette butts.Its really the smokers decison to start.I know
some people will say they were"pressured"..but when your..lets say 13 or so,and start to get offers to light up,I think the person is intelligent enough to figure it out:rolleyes:

As for the "Truth" ads..I think they are the most idiotic commercials ever made.Worse than the Britney Spears pepsi
commericals..I wonder if they realize most kids learn that stuff in 5th and 6th grade.

04-15-2002, 10:17 AM
I don't allow people to smoke in my house, in my car or whilst I am dining. If you wish to smoke, you may... just do it where there is more ventilation and I don't have to breathe as much of it!

04-15-2002, 12:13 PM
Okay so i didn't win any friends with my last post. I agree that smoking in eateries is disgusting. I'd never do it. Leaving cigarette ends everywhere is also disgusting. If I smoke in a public place I stub the cigarette out and then dispose of it carefully in a trash can or wherever seems applicable. I don't smoke when my sister or Mother (both asthmatics are around) and my house is smoke free . I smoke outside in the yard. Bars are different. If you want a smokeless bar then there are plenty opening up who ban smoking or provide a smokers room. But to be honest bars are traditionally smokers dens so if you don't like smoke then it's best to avoid the places.
Ewan Mcgregor and indeed a great deal of the star wars cast are smokers. Hayden being a role model and influencing youngsters doesn't wash with me. Kids start smoking because they see peers do it. because it's bad it's cool to try it. It's forbidden so the temptation is greater.
I didn't decide one day to become a smoker, I was lured into it at an impressionable age by my peers. I was ina bar and drunk when one of my peers handed me the first cigarette. Why not i thought everyone else is smoking. I'll be seen as a doofus if i don'r do the in thing with them. And so it was I took the first dose of chemicals. I'm not proud of being a smoker, I'm desperate to quit. It isn't as easy as non smoking health officials would like us to believe. The addictive chemicals in cigarettes have a strong hold over the body. If I don't smoke I become aggresive. Something I never was before smoking. The craving for the chemicals is what brings on the change in personality for me. First thing in the morning I reach for the ciggies. Even before I've eaten breakfast or washed or dressed. It's sad and i know it.
Yes, everyone knows smoking is bad. But it doesn't mean peole will suddenly just stop overnight because someone tells them to.
I hope that Hayden can quit before he damages his insides. I dread to think what the state of my lungs is now. Thankfully after tests recently i know that my arteries and my heart are fine. No damage there. But I hack my lungs to shreds every morning and it isn't pleasant. I sympathise with JT. Not being able to breath is my biggest fear now. That tight chested feeling is getting more common for me. Can't remember what the drug is called but it's just been licensed for use over here. the one that helps you quit, quells the cravings. You've had it in the states for quite some time. I may try to get me some of it to get this smoking thing licked.
But hayden is just a kid, doing what kids do. he hasn't endorsed smoking and would probably discourage anyone else from smoking just the way i do. I wouldn't dream of offering anyone a death stick from my packet. I've never ever heard of any smoker turning round and saying that smoking is cool or good for you.
Maybe in the days of Ronald Reagan advertising cigarettes it was seen as cool and good for you - in fact cigarettes used to be marketed that way - but i think kids are smarter than that now.

Mandalorian Candidat
04-15-2002, 12:17 PM
I once had an English teacher in high school who smoked like a chimney, but she hid it really well from students (which I really respected of her). One time I won a contest to go to a young writers conference at Whittier College and she was there as a chaperone. We were in meetings all morning long (8-12). Once we were done, I saw her run outside, light up, and (I'm not even exaggerating) take a single drag and just about use up the whole Virginia Slim in one puff. Damn, that nicotine must be pretty powerful stuff for her to need to do that.

I'm so glad my parents aren't smokers and that I didn't have that influence around me. My neighbors growing up always smoked like crazy and now all their kids are. That's pretty sad. :cry:

The truth ads may be annoying, but if they prevent one person from starting the habit, I think they're worth it.

04-15-2002, 12:25 PM
It has been said that nicotine is more addictive than heroine.

04-15-2002, 12:41 PM
originally posted by Mandalorian Candidat
I'm so glad my parents aren't smokers and that I didn't have that influence around me. My neighbors growing up always smoked like crazy and now all their kids are. That's pretty sad.

That's an interesting perspective, as my experience has been the complete opposite. My parents smoked since they were 19, so I grew up with it as a direct issue. My sister and I hated it, so we were never tempted to even try it; peer pressure in school was a nonfactor because we were both so against it. Same goes for my best friend, he and his siblings had the same situation.

Now that I think of it, they basically took the "Hayden" approach with me, as I would sometimes try to argue with them that even though I was a kid I should be allowed to smoke since they did. They never told us not to do it in a hypocritical way, instead they just recommended in light (no pun intended :D ) of their smoking that we don't get hooked and go down the same path (hmmm, sounds SW related ;) ).


04-15-2002, 01:04 PM
[heavy breathing]

"Luke... I am *cough*cough* Luke....don't smoke... while wearing an air-tight helmet."

04-15-2002, 02:43 PM
Woo-hoo! Bring back the Yak!!!:D:D

Mandalorian Candidat
04-15-2002, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by Caesar

That's an interesting perspective, as my experience has been the complete opposite. My parents smoked since they were 19, so I grew up with it as a direct issue. My sister and I hated it, so we were never tempted to even try it; peer pressure in school was a nonfactor because we were both so against it. Same goes for my best friend, he and his siblings had the same situation.

Now that I think of it, they basically took the "Hayden" approach with me, as I would sometimes try to argue with them that even though I was a kid I should be allowed to smoke since they did. They never told us not to do it in a hypocritical way, instead they just recommended in light (no pun intended :D ) of their smoking that we don't get hooked and go down the same path (hmmm, sounds SW related ;) ).


I think you're fortunate to have taken up that attitude. I had a friend growing up whose mom smoked a lot of those long thin women-only ciggies. He always swore he would never smoke when he grew up and he would ask his mom not to smoke when I was around since he knew no one in my family smoked. A year or so out of high school he just picked it up and gained tons of weight. Maybe it was because of his mom or another influence. To this day I still can't figure out why he would pick it up knowing it was harmful. Maybe he ate a tomacco or something...

BTW Caesar, it's nice to see you've taken up a more decent avatar. I though we were going to need a SSG intervention to get you to drop the Rick MC pix. :D

Jedi Clint
04-15-2002, 03:36 PM
I smoked for seven years, and I quit. It was my choice to start and it was my choice to stop. A friend who smoked inspired me to smoke, not an advertisement. I did not stop for health reasons. I didn't stop because I saw any of those so called "Truth" advertisements. I didn't stop because people nagged me. I did it to save money (and keep it out of government hands) because the taxes on my vice were becoming outrageous (that was when they were under 2 bucks a pack....what are they now?). I also got sick of burn holes and ash tray stains on my carpet, clothing, and furniture. It can be a dirty habit.

I think the anti-smoking campaign stopped being primarily about people's health long ago. Now it is about money and political goals. People at "thetruth" earning paychecks to support a "cause"? I don't think so. The average smoker is paying to hear their tripe on TV and radio ads and to see it on billboards whether they support their agenda or (more likely) not. If they wipe out tobacco and or nicotine, what is next? Surely you don't think that the public health police will simply allow their cash cow to dry up without jumping on the next tax and spend bandwagon cause do you? Sugar? Caffeine? Alcohol? Does it matter? There are already people filing law suits against fast food restaurants because they got fat from eating there! I am sick of this litigious, socialist, holier-than-thou, bandwagon mentality. Talk about freedom of choice......this is it! I reserve my right to make decisions on what is "good" or "bad" for me. Where should one smoke? If they own their property.....anywhere on or in that area that they want. If an establishment chooses to ban smoking so be it. That is their decision. If an establishment chooses to allow smoking that is their decision also. People are free to chose where they go as well. All the same, I think smokers should be reasonably considerate to non-smokers. And finally ;)......Hayden shouldn't have to worry about people doing what he does because they idolize him.

04-15-2002, 08:52 PM
If it was just "your choice", I would say that every man is free to make his own decision; but to take that decision away from someone is an entirely different matter, that is where I cry "foul":

- Second-hand smoke suffers aren't generally given a choice, it's thrust upon them. For every "considerate" smoker I know, I see dozens more who lack the consideration to avoid smoking around others or even to avoid throwing lit cigarette butts out their car windows.

- More to what Clint was saying though, big industries like tobacco, alcohol, and more recently fast food have gone past "make your own choice" into advertising areas that don't give the audience as much choice. These items are drilled into the heads of children at early ages through TV and magazine ads (depending on the product), ads about how these companies create charities to "help" people, and sports and music promotions. McDonalds has trained an entire generation of young Americans to respond on a subconcious level to their product not with the claim that the food is good, but that the food is "fun" - companies every day try to endear their products onto the next generation through inappropriate measures.

By the way, for those of you who forgot, I think it was a few years ago or so that several cigarette and alcohol companies had proof leak out about their ongoing plans to entice underage teenagers into using their products via specifically-aimed advertising campaigns like the ones I mentioned above.

On another note, how anybody can read the following news from last July and still smoke is beyond me:
-or read it from Canada-
-or read Newsgroup postings-
(btw, while this was major news on nearly every US and international news publication last July, Fox News no longer has any record of this story in their online archive, which dates back months beyond this story, even though they were where I first read about this.)