PDA

View Full Version : What do two wrongs make? More wrongs. - Spoilers.



LTBasker
04-26-2002, 12:52 AM
As I stated in another thread, I got extras of Hangar Duel Anakin and Bounty Hunter Zam for opening tonight, I also managed to grab a Zam speeder and opened that.

Zam - The only thing good about this figure is a strong magnet, the face sculpt...and the blaster as it is more accurate and less gummy than the Preview one. The gimmick definitely ruins this figure along with the posing. No matter how you pose her feet, she looks like she's suffering from a very bad case of knock-knee. Her gimmick only allows her arm to be posistioned with her sticking up someone or having the arm at her side. Some people will probably say to just stick her in the speeder and forget about her, well, you can't. You CAN lay her down in the speeder, but due to bad access and a giant cockpit, this figure can't sit-up and definitely would NEVER be able to grip the controls and reach the foot pedals. Not only is the lack of the correct articulation getting in the way here, but also her plastic skirt is keeping her from sitting up. Also, her extra face is a pain to put on her - if you can even get it on.

Anakin - This figure has it quite bad also... Granted he doesn't have the knock-knees but you wouldn't really be able to notice as you would be looking for his arm or lightsaber constantly. My advice is DO NOT take the rubber band off of his green lightsaber, definitely leave that on! I had to replace Anakin's blue saber for POTF2 Bespin Luke's saber so he could actually grip it and look good. It's difficult to find a good pose for him as he can topple over if you don't balance him right and you have to make watch the arm so it doesn't go falling to the floor. Again, you have to bend the blades just to get the out if you don't like cutting up your packages.

Zam's speeder - This thing is awesome, now we just need a pilot. :frus:
I put it next to the LEGO Jedi Starfighter, definitely longer than the SF and cheap, not too mention the excellent detailing on the inside of the cockpit. The crash damage is better than I thought it would be, however the only complaint I have about it is the rubber; it's quite sticky for no appearant reason.

On a side note - I did see the Snowspeeder and TIE Bomber in good supply at the Wal-Mart and I was shocked by the size of the TIE Bomber.

DARTH_SKELETOR
04-26-2002, 02:57 AM
Nothing against you, but my god all I have heard since the 23rd is complaints. I guess I'm just not as picky with my toys:rolleyes:

LTBasker
04-26-2002, 04:11 AM
Like Han said.. "What good's a toy if you can't play with it." :D

bigbarada
04-26-2002, 04:24 AM
Anakin Hangar is a really cool figure IMO, much better than the Outland Peasant one. The only problem I had with mine was the green blade constantly falling out of the metal hilt. Nothing a little rubber cement won't fix. I never thought I would hear someone complain about how hard a figure is to take out of the package. Geez, just go buy an exacto knife.:rolleyes:

I think a lot of our opinions of these figures are based on an unrealistic expectation for them to be perfect. Hello! They cost $5.88! Maybe if we were paying much more for each one could we expect perfection.

Beast
04-26-2002, 04:50 AM
Originally posted by bigbarada
I think a lot of our opinions of these figures are based on an unrealistic expectation for them to be perfect. Hello! They cost $5.88! Maybe if we were paying much more for each one could we expect perfection.
Gotta agree with you there BigB, I think everyone is expecting the figures to be perfect miniturized versions of the charecters from the movies. Not gonna happen folks, not for 5.88. And I don't hear this sort of complaining about the vintage line. Compare that line to the charecters from the movies and tell me which is more accurate. I won't even get into my support of the fun gimmicks, I don't wanna be stoned. :p

Oh, and if your figure's grip is loose on their saber hilt, just squeeze the hand together for a few moments. Then slip the saber in and he should be able to hold it fine, no need for the rubber bands. My Anakin is standing great without a stand, fighting with Count Dooku. And Yoda is waiting on the sidelines to come in and kick some butt. Gotta say, I love the new line. Reminds me of those fun toys I had as a kid. :D

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

DARTH_SKELETOR
04-26-2002, 06:24 AM
Yeah, For $5.88 I think they are great. If I bought a brad new car, and the bumper kept falling off(Ani's arm), I'd be ****ed:D Figure dont bother me:)

That speeder IS a little strange when it comes to a figure in it, but I manage.

Jargo
04-26-2002, 09:01 AM
The sticky rubber on Zam's speeder is worrying though. All the dust and lint that will stick to it and never NEVER come off. Also the damage feature sticks to itself and this may be detrimental to the rubber itself. A shame because the speeder really is rather nice. Thing is though, I'm sure in the movie the speeder is accessed via the side not the front. I wonder why hasbro went the front way instead?

Moaning? Critisising? I'd rather make sure the quality doesn't slip any more than it has by vocalising concerns and pointing out production errors. how in the hell is Hasbro supposed to know where the problems lie if no-one points them out? Maybe at times it comes over as ****y and petty but all points are valid.

LTBasker
04-26-2002, 01:14 PM
I know the figure wasn't oging to be perfect, that was a duh when I saw the wheel on the back on-line. ;) It's just they've had 2 chances to put out a good Anakin, and granted HD Anakin is better than Peasant but they really should've put a little more thought into these gimmicks and such. I was just venting some frustation when I made the post, I do still feel that way about the figures, but less angry...more or less. :D The thing is, if you're gonna make a toy figure..it should be made to where if you grab it the arm isn't gonna fall off and go bouncining across the room.

BigB, I don't like to cut my packages, I like to be able to put the figure back in the way it was packed (or close to it, so I'll know it will fit) if I ever have to pack the figure up to move or make space.

bigbarada
04-26-2002, 04:10 PM
I can see where you're coming from about the packaging even though I think you might be in the extreme minority there. The way Hasbro packages figures is intended to appease MOC collectors (as it makes the figure display better on the card) and kids (as it better advertises the play features). So think of it as a necessary evil in this current period in toy history.

RooJay
04-26-2002, 06:59 PM
I'm with JJB and BigB, I don't see what all the complaining is about. I don't think we could've expected better. Of course, that's just my opinion. You've gotta admit that the new lower price is great though! I for one expected the price to go up, not down, and this was a very pleasant surprise! Thanks Hasbro!:happy:
By the way LtB, looks like you might've just gotten hold of a bad Anakin; mine holds his lightsaber pretty well. I'm actually shocked at how strong the magnets are. Mine has never dropped his lightsaber or his arm (even after havinf thrown all my figures into a bag together after opening them and carrying them around to show my family members!), and he's never fallen over either (I had no problem standing mine up at all, and I have him posed with both of his lightsabers held straight out in front of him!).

Creger5150
04-26-2002, 08:43 PM
I really like the new figures. Except that Anikan's arm can be put on with a more sturdy peg (like former Luke & Vader figures) Also, I really hate the battle action. I hope Hasbro doesn't make it a habit.

Jon
04-26-2002, 09:09 PM
I'm one that has always opened my figures, however, my AOTC figures will forever be stuck in their packages, I can't even imagine the nightmare trying to stand some of these guys up.

JediTricks
04-26-2002, 11:54 PM
Some of these "through the tray" figures are a pain in the arse to get out of there, it can be extremely annoying. Not "twisty tie" annoying or "clear rubber banded to the tray" annoying, but annoying none the less. I take that back, it CAN be as annoying as the clear rubber banding to the tray.

RooJay
04-27-2002, 12:51 AM
Yeah, what is the deal with the "through the tray" figures?! Arena Padme was a serious pain to get out of the tray! It was like trying to figure out one of those metal bar puzzles they sell at novelty shops!

JediTricks
04-27-2002, 03:01 AM
LOL! Now that's a simile I understand! "The object of this puzzle in your hands is to free Padme's bonds from their bonds. Confused? Good, begin!" :D

Jargo
04-27-2002, 07:54 AM
RooJay, my Anakin hangar duel has a saber that doesn't fit too. I had to use the bit that sticks out the side to wedge it into his hand. I used the bottom of the saber to wedge against the point of his sleeve to stop his hand wobbling and then I could pose him pretty much in a good fighting stance. He's at least one figure that stands okay thanks to a non extreme posing of his legs I'm wondering how to go about getting rid of the wheel in his back though and fix that arm more permanently. I really like the basic sculpt of the figure but not the feature. magnetto arm is okay but does drop off too easily. The face sulpt is nice. better than the screaming deluxe one.

I did get quite a surprise when i opened him and his arm got left behind in the bubble. managed to bend a couple of saber blades trying to figure out that thtrough the tray packing thing. God knows how a kids going to get any of this stuff out of the packaging though. I had to wrestle with a couple of Geo warriors to get them out. Couldn't understand the rubber band thing at first and got round it with my exacto knife. Can't see many kids having one of those though.

Eternal Padawan
04-27-2002, 12:02 PM
To get Anakin out without bending sabers, I just popped the blade out of the hilt and slid it the other direction. I also popped off his entire magnet arm and slid that out the back, too. Then when his arm was free, I popped the blade back in. My Ani also stands just fine but I put all my figures on action stands so I don't have to worry about the domino effect.

Padme wasn't even worth the effort it took to get her out of the packaging and then out of the chain. gad I hate that figure. it's the worst of the line so far.

The rubber bands I don't get. The tray is molded around them anyway. I popped one figure out of the molded tray and he snapped back in. :confused: What? You dont to come out and play with the other figures? Ohhhhhh..Rubber bands... :mad:

JEDIpartner
04-27-2002, 12:34 PM
We didn't complain about the vintage figures because their parts didn't fall off and there were no REAL gimmicks that interfered with play after the "slide out lightsabres" were done away with...

I still think most of the figures are pretty poor. There are a few exceptions and a few I've even changed my mind on upon seeing them firsthand. Still... there are a lot of ****-poor problems with the line (Padme is a great example of that). There will always be those who settle for less and those who will demand more. This thread was started by someone who demanded more.

JediTricks
04-29-2002, 04:23 AM
All in all, I think Hasbro works hard against both us and themselves to keep things working smoothly. That point about the rubber bands being unneccessary due to the trays being molded around the figures is a perfect point. Unless Hasbro comes out and says "we're doing this to avoid shrinkage (theft)", I am going to lose respect for them with every new figure that suffers this way.

RooJay
04-29-2002, 06:11 AM
To address JEDIpartnr's point about those of us who "settle for less" (and please keep in mind that I was in no way offended by that comment), I really see it more as settling for what we've GOT...for now. I agree that all of the nay sayers may have valid complaints about the new figures from their own point of view, and I will agree that at least some of the figures could've been done better. Honestly though, what's done is done; however, this is not to say that I don't think we should get better versions of some of these figures a little later on down the line (Arena Padme being a prime example!). Some of them we will in fact be getting better versions of (the Tattooine Anakin scheduled for later this year). I for one am reasonably satisfied with what we been offered so far. Keep in mind that these initial releases are intended not only for us die hard collectors, but for the little kiddies as well, who will see the movie with us on opening day and then run to the stores to buy the little plastic effigies of their heroes! They are much more attracted to figures that are more dynamically posed, and that have the cool, gimmicky action features we're seeing now. I recommend to anyone that doesn't like, or isn't satisfied with a particular figure that you not buy it. Hopefully we'll get a better version after the general population turns their attention once again to something other than Star Wars, and the line becomes more collector oriented again.;)

Jargo
04-29-2002, 08:04 AM
Unfortunately, we aren't likely to get resculpts of many characters. Anakin, Obi, Padders, Dooku, Mace maybe but figures like Luminara and Kit Fisto are destined to be a one sculpt only deal most likely. You think we'll ever see Eeth Koth sculpted neutrally? In a sense we're forced to buy the background figures as they are with their silly features because they won't be done again. But the core characters willbe done to death over the next few years. Especially Anakin and Obi. The gimmicks are one thing but the static poses are another. If a figure doesn't have one it has the other. I can hope that some of these figures get resculpts but it's empty hope. Truth is, most of the AOTC figures are little more than shelf ornaments. Buy it now or never see it again. :(

Forhekset
04-29-2002, 09:03 AM
All in all I'm pretty happy with the new figs. I think for the most part the sculpting and detailing is really good. I don't seem to have all the problems most of you guys do...my HD Anakin's sabres both stay right in his hands like they ought to. If I breathe too hard on Saesee Tiin he drops his (I think I took a rubber band off his hand) but otherwise no worries.

The only thing that bugs me is that almost all the figures so far are locked into a single pose. But the only thing I do with my figures is pretty much display them on a shelf, so I have no need for tons of articulation anyway...so it doesn't bother me as much as some of you. Though I really don't understand why they chose to give Kit Fisto a broken leg that has to drag the ground. On articulation though, is there a reason Toy Biz can make those Spider-Man figures with 30 points of articulation and still sell them for $7 yet Hasbro can't do anything of the sort? Maybe I'm missing something?

Anyway it's like someone else said, you don't have to buy what you don't like. There are several figures from this initial batch that I'm passing on simply because I think they look lame (I only buy what I like, or what looks cool to me). I understand some characters aren't likely to be redone anytime soon, if ever, like for example Nikto. But if you really hate some of the figures, well....don't buy 'em. You can always wait for a resculpt and then if it seems that isn't ever going to happen, pick up the ones you're missing then. Unless you're a completist and you just absolutely cannot stand the fact that you don't own every single thing Hasbro produced, or you have to get your figs NOW and can't wait.

NRPeace
04-29-2002, 09:13 AM
I was just curious: Has anybody manged to have HD Anakin cut off his magnet arm with his spinny arm?

And yeah, it seems that everytime there's one of those rubber bands lashing an accesory to the figure's hand on the card, the figure can't hold the same accesory off of the card easily. I'm all for dynamic packaging, but it tends to hurt the playability.

Eternal Padawan
04-29-2002, 09:25 AM
I didn't have him cut off his own arm, but I did switch Anakins and Zams arms with each other. :D

Hasbro has all those spare rubber bands in the package for you to wrap around figures hands. that's the only way they'll hold onto the accesories. :rolleyes:

Wolfwood319
04-29-2002, 09:48 AM
I'm also in that boat of people that don't seem to have the problems some do. I love my HD Anakin. His arm has yet to just fall off, and he holds onto both his blades perfectly. Getting the new figures out of the packages are a little tough, but nothing my exacto knife couldn't overcome.

Also, some of my favorite figures are the ones people seem to hate most, like the Padme. I think this is a cool figure. It looks great in an Arena Battle scene, and is fun to play with. There are still some figures I don't like, and therefore have not gotten them, like Outland Anakin, and the new 3PO.

I don't consider it settling for less, I think of it as me "buying the ones I like, not buying the ones I don't like."

RooJay
04-29-2002, 04:46 PM
Hey Jargo, I understand your point, but I probably should've explained my position a bit more. I think figures like Shaak Ti, Luminara, and the Nikto are fine (even great!). It's the figures of the main characters that I think need to be resulpted! The one's I'm certain we'll be getting resculpts of already.
What I was actually trying to impress upon everyone (and please, no one take this the wrong way) was that Hasbro is never going to take back the figures we've already bought, resculpt and retool them to make them the way we want them, and then give 'em back! Knowing that, it seems pointless to me to complain about it. There's nothing we can change about it at this point, but hopefully things'll get better after all the movie buzz dies down.:happy:

To try and shed some light on Forhekset's question about price and articulation, some people will say that the reason for this is that Hasbro paid too much for the license, and has to cut corners in order to keep costs manageable. While it's almost certainly true that they paid more for Star Wars than Toy Biz did for Spider-man (Toy Biz being a business partner of Marvel Comics; I lost track of the actual relationship, but I'm sure one still owns the other, which makes it entirely possible that TB didn't even have to pay for the license at all!), I for one am having trouble believing that Hasbro hasn't yet recouped it's costs with the line. The shear VOLUME of product they have put out (I have RUN OUT of space for all this stuff!) kind of makes it hard for me to see how that couldn't have already started turning a profit! Figure that in with the fact that, I'm sure, it costs only PENNIES a piece to produce, and the fact that we know they've sold tons of product (I'm sure many of us can attest to that based on our personal collections!), and...you get my point.:rolleyes: So to answer your question Forhekset, it's the cost of the license that makes them so dinky, under-articulated, and so skimpy in the accessories department!

JediTricks
05-02-2002, 05:00 AM
RooJay, I'm not singling you out, but whenever someone says "it seems pointless to complain about what's already out", I instantly think about 1995 and the POTF2 buff figures. If we didn't say something and Hasbro hadn't heard our voices, we'd still be getting steroid-abusing Lukes and hideiously-ugly Leias.

Marvel once again owns Toy Biz (for those who don't know, IIRC Marvel bought Toy Biz in the early '90s, there were problems at Marvel a few years later and somehow Toy Biz turned around and became owners of Marvel for a time).

RooJay
05-02-2002, 05:52 AM
Don't get me wrong, I'm wasn't implying that we shouldn't make known our preference for better articulated, more neutrally posed, better accessorized figures. What I was saying was that we (being collectors in general) should not be purchasing figures we don't like, and then complaining that they are not as good as we want them to be. That is, by the way, the reason why they ship them in those neat little clear plastic bubbles; so we can view them before we buy, and make an informed decision about whether or not we want them! How about writing a polite, well conceived letter to Hasbro stating what we like and dislike about the new figures. That'd work much better than all the "HASBRO SUCKS!", and "I'm going to quit collecting because of this." posts. I'm sure Hasbro would take them a bit more seriously anyway. If you don't like it, don't buy it. That sends a message too, and a MUCH stronger one!

JediTricks
05-02-2002, 06:22 AM
Well that's a sticky issue for me - I thought I'd give Kit Fisto and Deluxe Mace a chance because I like the magnet gimmicks with Ani OPD and Obi-Wan Coruscant, but both those figures have flaws I hadn't foreseen (or had foreseen and hoped Hasbro hadn't fallen into anyway). Do I forfit my right to say "I don't like how this came out" simply because I own it?

On the other hand, I know what you're talking about with people who complain about figures like Nikto Jedi. I didn't like the looks of that figure and thus, I didn't buy it... but then again, I may not know what I'm missing with it because I avoided it. So does not buying it give me the right to complain about it even though I may not have experienced the issue first-hand?

I can tell you precisely the results I get when I politely write to Hasbro:
- email, result: form letter.
- snail mail, result: bupkis.

Basically, we're on a discussion forum because we want to discuss one of our favorite lines of toys with other people who have the same goal - part of that is discussing amongst each other the issues we do and don't agree on. If you look at most of the posts complaining about Hasbro issues, they're not just "Hasbro sux", people are genuinely expressing how they feel about issues that affect the hobby they enjoy. For example, I didn't just say "I hate Hasbro 'cause the new bubble trays are really sucky", I explained what I don't like and some folks knew exactly what I was talking about because they too were feeling the same frustrations.

Again, I don't mean to seem like I'm singling you out on this, it's just that I see a lot of folks getting bashed for simply stating their honest opinions (and I'm definitely not saying RooJay is doing this, just that it's really popular to "complain about the complainers" around here).

RooJay
05-02-2002, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by JediTricks
On the other hand, I know what you're talking about with people who complain about figures like Nikto Jedi. I didn't like the looks of that figure and thus, I didn't buy it... but then again, I may not know what I'm missing with it because I avoided it. So does not buying it give me the right to complain about it even though I may not have experienced the issue first-hand?

Actually I was implying that not buying it gives you no REASON to complain about it.


I can tell you precisely the results I get when I politely write to Hasbro:
- email, result: form letter.
- snail mail, result: bupkis.

So you got a form letter. I really don't think that indicates that your writing has had no effect. If enough people write in to complain then Hasbro WILL take notice. Any company would.


Basically, we're on a discussion forum because we want to discuss one of our favorite lines of toys with other people who have the same goal - part of that is discussing amongst each other the issues we do and don't agree on. If you look at most of the posts complaining about Hasbro issues, they're not just "Hasbro sux", people are genuinely expressing how they feel about issues that affect the hobby they enjoy. For example, I didn't just say "I hate Hasbro 'cause the new bubble trays are really sucky", I explained what I don't like and some folks knew exactly what I was talking about because they too were feeling the same frustrations.

I never indicated that I think everyone who has voiced a complaint has posted how much Hasbro sucks or not. That comment was leveled exclusively at those who have done so. You're right, we're all here to discuss the same topic. My view on the subject states that there is no need to scrutinize every little detail of the toys since that will not lead to those same toys being altered. Complain all you want about such and such figure being posed a certain way; doing so will not cause that figure to magically change into the form you would've liked to see.


Again, I don't mean to seem like I'm singling you out on this, it's just that I see a lot of folks getting bashed for simply stating their honest opinions (and I'm definitely not saying RooJay is doing this, just that it's really popular to "complain about the complainers" around here).

I am a reasonable man; there is no need to placate me over comments like this. There simply is no reason I would get offended, or feel singeled out for something like that. I am one of those who is simply stating my honest opinion.

pthfnder89
05-02-2002, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by RooJay
I for one am having trouble believing that Hasbro hasn't yet recouped it's costs with the line. The shear VOLUME of product they have put out (I have RUN OUT of space for all this stuff!) kind of makes it hard for me to see how that couldn't have already started turning a profit! Figure that in with the fact that, I'm sure, it costs only PENNIES a piece to produce, and the fact that we know they've sold tons of product (I'm sure many of us can attest to that based on our personal collections!), and...you get my point.:rolleyes:

Well, Hasbro did pay a HUGE amount for the license, and one thing to keep in mind is that when a companie makes a big investment like that, they sometimes know that they won't see and profit for years to come. A lot like videogame consoles: Sony loses money with every console it sells for the first year or two. But it recupes that money with game sales.

Printers too: HP loses money on every single printer they sell. But they do that because they know that their real money comes from the ink cartridges.

Anyway, my point was just that it's perfectly possible that Hasbro is still factoring in the cost of the lisence even today. My guess (and this is totally just a guess) is that each figure probably cost them about 0.50 cents in materials and labor. But a lot of times people don't factor in the enourmous investment in setting up a factory, creating the molds, advertising, packaging, shipping from China etc.... So when it is said that a company can make a certain product for a fraction of what they sell it for, those issues are usually never factored in.

RooJay
05-02-2002, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by pthfnder89
Well, Hasbro did pay a HUGE amount for the license, and one thing to keep in mind is that when a companie makes a big investment like that, they sometimes know that they won't see and profit for years to come.
I do see your point, and I have always considered this, but this line has already been around for YEARS, and Hasbro purchased the license for prequel toys way back between the release of the special editions and Ep. 1! Seems feasibly long enough in my book.

Anyway, my point was just that it's perfectly possible that Hasbro is still factoring in the cost of the lisence even today. My guess (and this is totally just a guess) is that each figure probably cost them about 0.50 cents in materials and labor. But a lot of times people don't factor in the enourmous investment in setting up a factory, creating the molds, advertising, packaging, shipping from China etc.... So when it is said that a company can make a certain product for a fraction of what they sell it for, those issues are usually never factored in.
I have always considered that also, but has it been stated for certain that those factories and that equipment are ONLY used to produce Star Wars figures for Hasbro? Has it been stated that Hasbro never figures in the profits on it's other lines into the production of Star Wars figures (do we know for certain that the company's other profits are never used to offset the cost of producing Star Wars figures? Which is, by the way, Hasbro's cash cow?)? Bad example I suppose since I did already bring up how much money Hasbro lost company wide last quarter...but you KNOW what I'm saying!:frus: :D :p