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JediDan
04-27-2002, 04:39 PM
Has anyone else noticed how the original trilogy Star Wars films relate in many ways to chistianity. You have the good side of the force (which I associate with god) and then there is the evil side of the force which I think of as Satan. The way the jedi die is different between the 2 sides. Good jedi die peacfully and are at rest. The bad jedi die in great pain. (meaning there will be much pain and suffering for them in the after life)

When D. Vader died he had redeemed himself and went on to the light side, even though he lived a life of hate the good in him came out and saved him, which I believe happens in real life.


Yoda explains the force as always being, which is what god is. The sith (satan) tempts you with easy power and other such things which starts you down their path and makes you more and more like them unless you resist them. Which we all know is SO hard to do.

I could go on and on but I thought I'd start this topic and see if I am or am not alone in thinking there is a relationship between SW and chistianity. What do you think? You have any other examples that you think are directly related? Love to hear them.

JesusFreak
04-27-2002, 04:45 PM
Yes, there are some similarities. I've never thought about the ones you stated, the only ones I hear are Anakin's virgin birth, being the "chosen one", etc. I don't think those are true. Mainly because Jesus never commited a single sin, Anakin though turned to the dark side and killed many people. Similarities, yes, but exact similarities, no.

LTBasker
04-27-2002, 04:53 PM
Yes George takes several things from religions and cultures and such. For example, the Battle Droid head design is taken from the head on a statue in Africa I think.

I kinda prefer the "force is like duct tape" though. :D

Dryanta
04-27-2002, 04:56 PM
I can similarities in the redemptive part of the story as whole.I think we all see everything either a movie or what ever in some sense the same as we look at life in general.

2-1B
04-27-2002, 05:09 PM
JesusFreak, I'm not sure we're meant to look at Anakin's birth as Virginal per se, but rather Immaculate as it is possible he was conceived by the *cringe* Midichlorians. :)

Shmi may have been quite the philanderer for all we know. :D

Dryanta
04-27-2002, 05:14 PM
lol .Good point.Immaculate is a better term than virgin.That info was never given out either way

AT-AT Man
04-27-2002, 05:35 PM
thats exactly what my dad said after seeing episode 1 with me, he mentioned that the OT was much like Christianity. ha i told him what ever and shrugged it off, i guess the old man was right.

Tycho
04-27-2002, 07:35 PM
Hmmm.

I'm going into a tangeant here, but will draw it back into the thread in my conclusion.

Vladamir Dracula was born with no father and no mother in a way.

He was supposed to be the son of Satan, so the Devil told him.

Dracula's father, the senior Lord Dracul could not have any more children with his Queen, who gave him only a daughter (or it was a weak son who had to be killed, I forget).

So with a "wet nurse" that the aristocracy often pushed their children onto, Lord Dracul had 2 sons - which at one point he even sacraficed as voluntary prisoners of war during a treaty negotiation during the Crusades.

So that his Chosen One, the Prince Dracula, could be passed off as the real heir to the throne of Transylvania, the Lord had his mistress, the young wet-nurse and Dracula's real mother, burned at the stake as a witch - all in the name of God, while her son was forced to stand watch as his father pronounced justice over their domain.

Privately, Dracula denounced his father, and he murdered him for revenge once he had the opportunity. Then he assumed the throne to later be known as Vlad the Impaler during his mortal life.

Vlad had fallen in love with a gypsy princess, the one girl in his haunted dreams that the movie vampire character is always looking to find, reincarnated in some hero character's love interest. She taught him of 'real' witchcraft and her simpler ways reminded him of his love for his real mother. (We can assume he had the real Queen executed as well - or forced her into obscurity if he still needed his "assumed" mother alive to succeed the throne). In any case, Vlad learned to communicate with the supernatural and began to hear the voices of Satan.

Lucipher told him that it was his doing that brought Vlad into power: he taught him to be ruthless and self-relying - not dependent on a simple commoner as a mother, nor a King as a father. When he was ready, it was with Satan's help that Vlad took power.

But Vlad was committed to his people and to fight for the Church against the Muslem Turks. He was to marry his sweet Elizabeth (I believe was her name, the Lucy in movies is always the friend turned vampire victim), but first he would earn God's favor by winning victory for his Father in Heaven by defeating the Muslems.

As part of the psychological warfare wrought upon the unstoppable Vlad by his frightened and desperate enemies, an arrow with the falsely written notice that Vlad had fallen in battle was shot into his Transylvania castle. Elizabeth, heartbroken at the loss of her love, could not be consoled by the castle priests, and she took her own life for her love for Vlad.

When the Prince actually returned to the castle, victorious and with prisoners of war, he was crushed when he learned of his beloved's fate. He blamed God for all of this - and damned Him and slayed all the priests for vengeance. Then he executed his prisoners and impaled their bodies along the high road to his castle, creating a river of blood for which Vlad the Impaler was known.

Satan rejoiced in the mischief he had caused, and left his "son" to kill himself as well. But Dracula could not die. His quest to contact his love beyond the grave as she'd shown him, as well as his thirst for blood and vengeance, brought him back as the immortal.

Satan initially took credit for this and was telling Dracula that he would look to helping him find Elizabeth in the afterlife. But Jesus came to Dracula and told him that he must first find peace within himself, an opportunity given to him by the glory of Jesus'
Father himself, or Dracula would never find Elizabeth, nor salvation. But Dracula's pursuit into the occult and supernatural led him to a new discovery: he found the link to his real mother!

Mother Nature was in fact real, in the earth and the Transylvanian soil that had come to sustain him in his coffin tomb.

The Vampires would rise and offer humanity hope, as families could survive the Dark Ages and the Undead would guide their own living descendants, to help humanity achieve real advances as a species, and true evolved civilization. A symiosis, not a horror was proposed. Life forms living beyond death to help other lifeforms, in mutual cooperation. Without the vampires, we might have destroyed our own universe.

But two aliens not-of-the-earth were interfering. God, Jehova, the False-God-of-Light, and Lucipher, or Satan, the fallen Price of Angels were playing keeper to humanity when they had no such right. It is dubious whether they were involved with the Creation in the first place, but even so, they created Mother Nature and were now unjustly deciding to destroy her.

God gave his followers the mandate to think that the earth and all its animals and fruit were all belonging to mankind. Satan gave mankind the ambition to prey even on itself. So together they created a state of war and an imbalance of nature.

To further manipulate their pawns, God gave mankind Jesus Christ. Satan appointed Vlad Dracul his Chosen Prince. But Jesus was a believer and a follower of his Lord, Dracula did not trust his "master," as he never learned to trust any father. And what he did learn was that Elizabeth was in torment in Hell for her sin of taking her own life, and that the best God would do to tempt his rival's pawn, was to give her a new life, as equally heartbreaking and painful as the last moral existence she would know.

Dracula betrayed both these false gods when he learned of this, and embarked on a relentless pursuit to find the next incarnation of Elizabeth and take her into the realm of the Undead. His would-be Army of Darkness was never organized as he desperately sought his love, and the Vampire Nation was only organized by its own adepts, with little to do with the real master vampire himself.

Now Dracula's mother went to her grave being accused of witchcraft because she allegedly sacraficed her son she carried - who had no father....

And her real son who DID survive slayed his own father, and denounced him - so there was no father.

Satan himself took credit for this chain of events, so was Dracula immaculately conceived?

Mary carried Christ, while she and Joseph both denied the latter being the father. Did Mary avoid the same fate as Dracula's mother? Or could Jesus Christ have just as easily turned out to be Vlad Dracula?

jeddah
04-28-2002, 05:46 AM
....is bound to be compared to various faiths although the midichlorians/imaculate conception idea did not pass me by unnoticed when I saw TPM.

I read cards. My take on OT SW is like a fools journey (Fool meaning an initiate or the beginner of a journey in the tarot)

The Fool - Luke
The Hermit - Yoda
The Tower - Death Star
The Chariot - Lukes X-wing
The Devil - Luke's test/temptation on the DS2 with his father and Palpatine
The Magician -Obi Wan
The Sun - The light Force
The Moon - The Dark side of the Force
The Emperor - Palpatine
The Lovers - Han and Leia
Death - Vader, particularly regarding his new persepctive at the end of ROTJ
Hanged Man - Han
Strength - The Rebel Alliance
Empress - Princess Leia ANH
The High Priestess - Princess Leia ROTJ
The World - The Universe after ROTJ

The other cards I cannot place as characters as they double up on some above, or are abstract concepts are; Justice, Judgment, Wheel of Fortune, The hierophant and Temperance.

If I was an artists, I would've already produced a full set of cards for myself to work with. :)

jeddah

Jargo
04-28-2002, 08:00 AM
I think there's too much stock being placed in this birth of Anakin thing and people are losing sight of the heros journey. The hero faces many obstacles and overcomes them or fails, he is on a quest to rescue or come to the aid of a virgin princess, he passes through a valley of darkness and must emerge triumphant having faced and fought with demons. he must enter the fortress beyond the valley and destroy the evil within. We all though that this was Luke's story and it turns out that Anakin follows exactly the same path. It is Anakin who enters the dark fortress and destroys the evil within not Luke. Okay so anakin is temporarily consumed and transformed by the darkness but his redemption and reversal of fortune is set in place when he destroys the Emperor.

I don't think Christianity has anything to do with it as the heros journey is a universal tale of right versus wrong or light versus dark. To apply a religions set of precepts and values to this saga is just plain wrong. The only influence that religion has on star wars is that in creating the Jedi order George had to look to worldly religions for inspiration and took a fair bit from western religions as well as the eastern ones. It's just made up stuff that has no bearing on christianity and wasn't intended to. If anyone takes it that way then it's their coloration of the movies and the story not georges. But for pities sake don't let star wars be claimed as a christian movie. I couldn't bear that.

JediDan
04-28-2002, 10:09 AM
Boy you sure came down hard on people who do relate Star Wars to chistianity in some ways. Maybe you don't exactly know what Chistianity is then. Chistianity is your classic good vs. evil. Trials, temptations, redemption are all part of Star Wars as it is in Chistianity. If you don't see it that way that's fine. It's just too bad that you have to "bear" it that some of us do. :D :D

bigbarada
04-28-2002, 01:06 PM
Any Christian or religious overtones of the OT remained pretty vague and could be used to fit any religion or no religion. The only time I thought religious themes kind of bashed you over the head was with Anakin's "immaculate conception." However, I've done some research on it since Ep1 and realized that this concept isn't unique to Christianity, it had existed for thousands of years before Christ was born.

Jargo
04-28-2002, 02:44 PM
Exactly. It's Universal and I for one object to any attempt by Christians to claim it as a Christian thing. It's just a story, a classic story retold. I have no objection to individuals seeing it as Christian if they want to but i just don't want it to be known as a Christian movie or a Jewish movie or a Hindu movie or a Buddhist Movie or any other organisation or religion. It's a story that stands on it's own without being saddled with nonsense like this. I'd feel the same way about any Political party trying to claim it as a Chamion of their cause the way they do with populsar music and taint that music forever. Propaganda can stay in the pulpit or the congress chambers and leave star wars alone.

Bosskman
04-28-2002, 03:20 PM
I'm so sick of people comparing the conception of Anakin to the Immaculate Conception. Do you people have any idea what the Immaculate Conception is? If you thought it was Christ'c conception by the Holy Spirit in the womb of the Virgin Mary you are wrong. THAT is what is known as the Incarnation. The Immaculate Conception was when the Virgin Mary was conceived without the stain of original sin. That has nothing even remotely in common with Anakin being conceived by the midichlorians. The concept of original sin comes up nowhere in SW. There are no similarities between the Incarnation and Anakins conception by the midis either. The Incarnation was God, in the person of Christ, becoming flesh. The force, in SW, is more along the lines of Chi, or Ki, in Eastern philosophies. A mystical energy field, not God. And Anakin is not "the Force" manifesting itself in human form, he's merely the chosen one. Anakin had no father, Christ DID. He even says so repeatedly. How can you compare the two? I agree completely with Jargo on this one. SW is an escapist space fantasy. Sure Lucas borrowed parts from Christianity, but he also borrowed from Buddism, and other philosophies too. Also, I don't think George Lucas is Christian anyways.

JediDan
04-28-2002, 03:40 PM
Looks like 2 of your have to "bear" it now. LOL :D :D

Tycho
04-28-2002, 03:58 PM
You will be harvested for the Vampire Nation!

Accept Dracula as your earthly savior. The pure vampire is the second messiah.

There is only one Lord: Vader - and Lucas was his prophet!

Lobito
04-29-2002, 05:53 PM
JC had 12 disciples and the Jedi council was formed by 12 jedi's. But that doesnt mean it has something to do with Christianism...then from the looks of Padme we could also assume that it has something to do with oriental culture...or the gungans with Indian culture...SW has lots of similarities, thats why its so unique. MELANGE.:D

JediDan
04-29-2002, 06:23 PM
Yes, we all can relate to it in one way or another. Wonder what culture Padme's tight white suit comes from?? ;) :D

2-1B
04-30-2002, 12:28 AM
originally posted by Bosskman.
I'm so sick of people comparing the conception of Anakin to the Immaculate Conception. Do you people have any idea what the Immaculate Conception is? If you thought it was Christ'c conception by the Holy Spirit in the womb of the Virgin Mary you are wrong. THAT is what is known as the Incarnation. The Immaculate Conception was when the Virgin Mary was conceived without the stain of original sin. That has nothing even remotely in common with Anakin being conceived by the midichlorians. There are no similarities between the Incarnation and Anakins conception by the midis either.

Sorry. :(
I meant "incarnation".

I for one will draw a general similarity between that and the midichlorian conception of Anakin, the idea being that a higher power intervened in the birth of a savior or chosen one.
I've never claimed these to be "Christian" movies, just movies that have certain elements that do show general parallels to many different religious stories of Earth. While other parts of the movies have nothing to do with religion. :)

187-Maul
04-30-2002, 07:42 AM
and "get one with the force" is kinda like the nirvana, the place where no time exists and stuff and "get one with everything and be peacefull and calm" (buddhistian)