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kadamontaga
04-27-2002, 05:01 PM
I just watched the classic trilogy over the last week and I've been meaning to start this thread for a while. I did a search, and I can't see this being debated before but apologies if it has.

What do you think to Luke Skywalker the character? What do you think about what he says and does, and his role as hero?
Just for the sake of this discussion, ignore things like script and acting, just think about what you see on screen as if it's real.

Here's my two pence...
I think he's lame. I love the films and I love most of the other characters (except for Han, Leia and Lando) and I love the story etc etc. But Luke Skywalker is one of the most unconvincing, and generall lame heroes I've ever seen. I don't like the way he whines all the time, and I just don't like the fella. Okay, he's the hero and the entire saga revolves around him and his father, but don't you think he's a bit lame?

Darth Ovori
04-27-2002, 05:55 PM
His a whining brat with proabably the worst hair cut threw out the entire SW galaxy...

Too bad Harrison ford did'nt play his part...
Hmmm, that actaully would'nt had been such a bad idea...

But then Burt Reynolds would of been Solo and SW was gonna suck...

kadamontaga
04-27-2002, 06:01 PM
I don't like Harrison either. Perhaps they should just have omitted the entire Luke character. Maybe Yoda could have a long lost son and it could be about him. We could call him Phillip. I'm not sure exactly where Darth Vader fits into this new version, but I'm sure one of you lot can figure it out.
Maybe he kidnaps Yoda. That sounds about right.

Bel-Cam Jos
04-27-2002, 11:41 PM
Part of me wanted to say "I like Luke, but I don't 'like' like him," but that would've been inappropriate. :p

Do I like Luke Skywalker as a character? Yes. He's the model by which all down-and-out or confused "little guys" out there. Part of his success came from powerful allies and friends, but also some of it was from within himself. Was he played to perfection? Of course not. However that imperfection made Luke seem more realistic, because he had faults. Was Han cooler? Arr. :Pirate:

darthdogg
04-27-2002, 11:51 PM
people-

luke eventually becomes a cooler character by "empire" ....his outfits were key and his increased confidence was also a plus. i think he did the job well enough - heck we're still talking about him afterall.

darthdogg

sith_killer_99
04-28-2002, 12:22 AM
I didn't really like the character in ANH.

I didn't really like the character in the begining of ESB.

I started to like him towards the end of ESB, right around the time he was battling dear ol' Dad.

I really began to like the character in ROTJ.

I like the character even better in the Zahn novels. The EU stuff really brought out more of his character. Though I suspect that had more to do with the Authors ability to convey the character well on paper.

chewie
04-28-2002, 01:53 AM
He was ok by me.

bigbarada
04-28-2002, 02:03 AM
He never really interested me as a kid; but now he is one of my favorites. I don't mind his whininess or mistakes, something we all do at one time or another.

One interesting note, Luke didn't exist when Lucas presented the rough draft to 20th Century Fox. Lucas had to create him in order for the studio to finance the product, since they didn't believe the movie would sell without a young male lead.

kadamontaga
04-28-2002, 03:26 AM
That's incredible! So what was the plot before Luke was concieved? (so to speak)

Darth Ovori
04-28-2002, 10:18 AM
??? then Han was the last Jedi and son to Vader... Meaning that he goes furtherer with his sister than Luke doe's... ??? EEEESSHHHHHH

J/K...

So then, what would have the orginal plot been... ???

kadamontaga
04-28-2002, 10:32 AM
Perhaps it was a Yoda-Vader buddy movie. That sounds pretty sweet to me. They could take a road trip in Yoda's Dad's beaten up old Millenium Falcon, and traded it for a top-of-the-range Death Star II. They could have pulled loads of chicks, got into drunken lightsaber brawls, offended a big fat green mob boss, almost been thrown into a, well, huge desert monster's gabing maw, and eventually been rescued by their old mum and dad - Emporer Palpatine and Boba Fett.

Actually, it sounds a bit unlikely now i've written it all down.
Sorry for wasting your time.

bigbarada
04-28-2002, 04:32 PM
Mark Hamil was originally cast for Deek Starkiller, which then became Anakin Starkiller; until that character was nixed and Mark became Luke Skywalker. The outfit he wore in the ANH awards ceremony was to be his Starkiller outfit, without the yellow jacket.

Star Wars itself went through many incarnations. The first drafts centered around characters named Mace Windy and Cleigg Whitesun. Anakin and Darth Vader were two separate characters. Anakin was an old Dia Noga (soon to be called Jedi Bendu, then just Jedi) who had been so damaged in a fight that only his head and right arm were not cybernetic. Darth Vader was an old washed up general and didn't wear a mask at all.

Check out the Annotated Screenplays of the OT to get a glimpse of what might have been.

bigbarada
04-28-2002, 04:39 PM
It was Starkiller who originally programmed the message into Artoo for his "chubby" younger brother on Tatooine.

Vader was also known as the Lord of Alderaan in previous drafts and after capturing Deak begins punching him violently during an interrogation while strangling one of his officers with the Force. Vaders troops were also called Tuskens at this point. Very interesting read.

JediTricks
04-29-2002, 02:26 AM
Do I like Luke? Yeah! He's hopeful but is feeling the weight of his spirit being crushed by his newfound responsibilities as an adult on the farm, then this is all ripped away from him and he has to cope. Throughout ANH, Luke is thrown curveball after curveball and doesn't perfectly roll with 'em all - that's what makes him great, he doesn't have all the answers, he's just trying to get a little ahead as best he can through ever-changing circumstances -- many of which rock his universe.

By ESB, Luke shows responsibility as a commander, but has let his Jedi training with Obi-Wan get dusty - this is part of what he cannot unlearn all that easily when he finally meets up with Yoda and faces Vader.

After being humbled by his father, Luke finally gathers himself together in ROTJ not to save the galaxy, but to rescue his closest friends before they too befall the fate of every single person he's held as family in his life. He doesn't listen to everything Yoda says and carves out a slightly "gray" path of the Force, but survives to win the day by being his own man and knowing when to throw in the towel.

Darth Nihilus
05-04-2002, 12:19 PM
Well said JT, I don't think I could add anything after that.

JediTricks
05-06-2002, 12:07 AM
Thanks Nihilus, I sometimes feel like I'm in a parallel universe where Luke is public-enemy #1. ;)

JediTricks
07-20-2002, 01:58 AM
Anybody else have anything to add on this thread?

Pendo
07-20-2002, 04:34 AM
Originally posted by JediTricks
Anybody else have anything to add on this thread?

Not really :D.

PENDO!

Darth Sidious
07-20-2002, 08:37 AM
I like him a lot more in ROTJ. He is much more mature and doesnt whine, he has that nifty black robe and stuff, and a better saber. I was glad when he stopped whining. He whined more in ANH than he did when he was being drilled by Palpatines force lightning!

jet chan
07-20-2002, 02:06 PM
by the time rotj came around luke was finally acting more as a jedi then a naive farm boy and by that point he was finally becoming tolerable so in a sense didn't mind him he just wasn't one of my favorates

DarthBatman
07-21-2002, 12:59 AM
Luke was hit and miss for me. In some scenes, I loved him; in some scenes, I hated him.

Pendo
07-21-2002, 06:35 AM
I liked Luke in ROTJ, thought he was alright in ESB and he geally got on my t**s in ANH. He is a whining little baby in ANH I couldn't stand him. But in ESB you could cope with him. ROTJ he was perfect he acted like an adult and knew what he had to do.

PENDO!

Padmé Skywalker
07-21-2002, 11:49 AM
i like luke in the last film too but not the others.

MFH
07-21-2002, 11:16 PM
Yes, I like Luke.

But, I can relate to Han better. Or even Chewie.:crazed:

Captain Trips
07-22-2002, 01:18 PM
I think my favorite part of the OT is watching Luke mature from a whiny little brat into a cool, calm, a##-kicking Jedi.

Lobito
07-24-2002, 03:27 PM
Yep, Luke rules in the SW films...Han rules a little more...but Yoda and Vader take the whole show.:D

DarthSetnom
07-25-2002, 11:49 PM
Luke is not bad at all... You just have to realize how he somewhat evolves but remains the same insecure whiny boy until that final duel with his father.

And he's not the most pathetic hero of all time... The title belongs to Shinji Ikari of Evangelion.

Fixer
08-05-2002, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by kadamontaga
Here's my two pence...
I think he's lame. I love the films and I love most of the other characters (except for Han, Leia and Lando) and I love the story etc etc. But Luke Skywalker is one of the most unconvincing, and generall lame heroes I've ever seen. I don't like the way he whines all the time, and I just don't like the fella. Okay, he's the hero and the entire saga revolves around him and his father, but don't you think he's a bit lame?

BLASPHEMY!

To expand on some of JediTricks' themes: I don't just like Luke, I love Luke. (No, not that way.) When I was a scrawny, bowl-cut wearin' dorky 7-year old who was tired of being picked on by the bigger "cool" kids, Luke showed me that a scrawny, bowl-cut wearin' dorky 18-year old could still matter in the grand scheme of things.

Luke draws just about every short straw imaginable: he's the "runt" of his social group, the other kids call him "Wormie" (well, they do in the cut scenes), his parents are dead, his friends (Biggs & Tank) have left him behind for bigger things, and his grumpy Uncle refuses to let him pursue his dreams. Can you blame him for being a little whiny? Then, in the course of one short day, his whole world is turned upside down. He's nearly killed by Tuskens, his surrogate parents are killed, he finds out his father was a Jedi Knight murdered by another fallen Knight, he nearly gets killed in a bar, meets a cynical smuggler who insults Luke every chance he gets, gets captured by the Empire, and watches as his new-found mentor gets cut down before his eyes.

So, what does Luke do next? He doesn't whine, or take Han's offer to run away from his troubles. He confronts the evil head on, flying a tiny beat-up old starfighter against a weapon the size of a planet. And in his darkest, most desperate moment, he reaches down to his very center and finds his inner strength, switches off his targeting computer, and saves the galaxy.

In my book, that's a pretty likeable guy. Not at all what I would call "lame." In the next two films, he shows the same character traits - fate (or the Force) keeps throwing obstacles and revelations in his path, and he keeps finding the will to overcome them - all the while resisting the temptation to take the easy way out. I know that in this age of the cynical anti-hero, Luke isn't "cool," but I certainly think he is.

You also dislike Han, Leia, and Lando. So, you just like the droids, aliens, villains, and Ben? Interesting. I've not come across a fan who didn't like at least one of the "big four."

DarthSetnom
08-06-2002, 05:42 PM
I thought books were not to be considered in this thread... but yeah you're right, at times he just acts like a real man and fights against all odds.

At the very least one can say Luke is a fighter, sometimes he's insecure, and i still believe he acts whiny and doesn't look to ready to be on his own but he is more likely to get the job done than just stay there sobbing because he gets called names and punked around even when he already feels he's become a Jedi.

MikeAndTheBots
08-07-2002, 11:55 PM
Luke is great, second all time favorite character. Luke goes full circle, he completes the cylce. He starts off by living on a boring, deserted sand box with his Aunt and Uncle farming moisture. One day, BAM, all of his known history is blasted into pieces, everything he knew destroyed. Instead of crying his eyes out he takes the option of following in his father's foot steps, the father he never knew he had and finds a new father-figure in an old man who was a friend of his father's. He meets up with some random smuggler and his walking furball of a partner. After holding his own against the Empire's best (hehehe) men, his final link to his past is obliverated by the Emporer's right-hand-man. The least experience out of a small band of rebels, he destroys and makes the 'impossible shot' and destroys the empire's super weapon. He is now for the first time in his life, accepted. By ESB, he is a leader. He sees that he is still human and gets crushed on Hoth. He makes his way to Degobah (SP) only to see his new master mock him for his lack of knowledge and skill. He is defeated again. When he goes to save his friends he meets the killer of his mentor, and general evil guy Vader. After nearly dying a couple times in the fight, and losing his hand, his world is shattered when he finds out one of the two most feared, hated, and violent men in the galaxy is his father. He makes it out and meets up with his friends and by the team he meets Vader again in ROTJ, he is a jedi knight. Instead of killing is father he saves him. Instead of whining, he is confident in his abilities but still has some problems keeping his emotions controlled.

Luke went from whiney farm boy to one of the saviours of the galaxy in Star Wars. He kicked major ***.

DarthSetnom
08-09-2002, 01:13 AM
Let's hear it for the boy!