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Tycho
04-29-2002, 07:02 AM
(Moderator's Note - This thread's about every week's episode of Enterprise the day after we see it. Feel free to join in at any point.)

Well, we know the crew is going to make some mistakes by not having a concrete non-interference directive.

Once John and Travis staged that internment camp escape, what do you think is going to happen next?

Will there be some kind of organized Sulibaan resistance to The Cabal?

Archer pretty much hates Sillik - and for this captain to hate anyone it's gotta be pretty severe. Archer is the most easy-going Captain in the history of all 5 shows!

So why didn't he just cooperate with the Regallians (?) anyway, and try and use his information to improve the living conditions of the Sulibaan refugees?

Meanwhile, did that one ever see his wife again? If they broke out of one camp, where would they go without their loved ones in others? They're not going to leave family members behind are they? They're going to have to go back and raid the other camps we did not see in this episode.

Cool flying and shooting by Trip - the effects looked especially real this time!

Anyway, now is Earth or at least Archer going to be in-for-it with the Regallians?

Who thought the scenes with Travis being prejudiced and then encountering a Sulibaan who felt the reverse for him was just a little too cliche. I like Star Trek when it has a subtext to it, but that part of the episode was just plain preachy and too phony as it was scripted.

Your thoughts?

LTBasker
04-29-2002, 01:12 PM
It was an interesting episode but again they didn't think. My biggest complaints are:

If Enterprise could beam a communicator down...Why couldn't they just beam Archer and Mayweather up then get the heck outta there? Enterprise would obviously be more powerful since it's the star. :p They obviously didn't have any shields around the compound hence why ENT was able to beam stuff down. :frus:

Also, another argument against the shuttle - Why is it so more sophisticated than the Galileo shuttles seen in TOS? In TOS they relied on the transporters, but on ENT they seem to try to get shuttles in there whenever they can.

And T'Pol acted more like a human than a vulcan.....AGAIN.


Bad episodes like this and their upcoming between-seasons hiatus will probably lose alot of viewers. They're really taking alot of hiatus breaks with this show... I wish Majel would come back. :(

Tycho
04-29-2002, 02:57 PM
1) John said he wanted to stay until he could figure out something for the Sulibaan. That's why they didn't just beam back up: Captain's orders!

2) They use the shuttle because only Malcom likes the Transporter or feels it's safe. It's not more advanced than Kirk's shuttles. Just constantly has to be used.

My problem was when the heck did they arm the shuttlecrafts? Those looked like phasers - which they don't really have.

I think this show would be more realistic if they totally NEVER had the transporter and it was "invented" in the 7th season or something.

And maybe they should have guns that shoot bullets, or at least lasers and tasers (like the electical current weapons modern police have now for crowd control on advanced forces).

3) As to T'Pol - I totally agree with you! Bad character writing.

DeadEye
04-29-2002, 04:18 PM
I like this show. It's a good series...there are a lot of good episodes, but many of them, like this one, end too quickly when they could have stretched a two-parter out of it.

And I guess they gave the shuttle a miniaturized version of the phasers Trip built for Enterprise (at the beginning the Enterprise only had torpedoes.)

LTBasker
04-29-2002, 04:59 PM
Archer didn't give the order until AFTER they beamed down the communicator...cause that's how he gave the order. If they had him right there, why not beam him UP instead of beaming a tiny device down?

As for the phase cannons/phasers on the shuttle....How? There should be power limitations or do they have a giant energizer on them? :rolleyes:

DeadEye
04-29-2002, 06:01 PM
Maybe they drilled little holes in the shuttles and were shooting their phase pistols through them... :D

Tycho
04-29-2002, 06:05 PM
Are you guys going to collect Art Assylum's Enterprise Figures?

I plan to get these. I think the first wave comes out in June.

Here's a pic:

Tycho
04-29-2002, 06:08 PM
And the Deluxe Figures combine to make this bridge playset with:

Travis
Malcolm
Johnathon
Hoshi
T'Pol

or maybe 1 less of these. Not sure.

LTBasker
04-29-2002, 06:08 PM
I'm definitely gonna get the Phase pistol and the communicator set just cause I like playing with things like that. :D I might get the figures with the diorama pieces to make the bridge sets also and possibly the vehicles.

JediTricks
04-30-2002, 04:19 PM
Looks like AA is putting the line on hold for now, at least for a few months.

I thought last week's ep was really pedestrian. It was trying to be topical but doesn't drive the point home. The biggest problem I had was that all the suliban prisoners were vanilla - no real mix of opinions, everybody's just sad all the time. Ultimately, it delivered on one level, but I felt it wanted more and never got there.

Nice cameo though.

DeadEye
04-30-2002, 04:23 PM
I might get them. But you really can't do as much with ST figures as you can with SW...;)

smurfvader
04-30-2002, 05:59 PM
Being a Star Trek fan I really wanted to like this show. After sitting through that wretched series called Voyager and the mediocre DS9 I was hoping for something better. However that doesn't seem to be the case.
I agree with Tycho about the Transporters and that it would have been better without them. I also would have liked it if they didn't have a screen that enables them not only to see the ships, but the aliens piloting the ships. This way they would have kept in line with continuity ( sorry I know some people like Rick Berman feel that it's a dirty word ) and made the show a bit more interesting.
When you think about it the only difference between the enterprise NX 1 and the Enterprise E is that the NX doen't have shields or tractor beams. For 200 years that's not a lot of difference. Try comparing an automobile from the 1800's to a vehicle today.
Another thing I disliked was the Ferengi episode. Now I admit I missed the ending, but the fact that they were seen by several members of the crew and yet the Federation didn't know who they were for another 200 years seems a bit odd. If someone attacked you and you saw them wouldn't you try and get some sort of drawing and ask other people if they've seen any one who looks like this? They've already met one Alien species who says they traded with the Ferengi, isn't it possible they would meet others? and don't get me started on the whole temporal cold war....uugghhh!!!
The heck with Majel I wish Gene were back.

JIm

LTBasker
04-30-2002, 07:01 PM
SmurfVader, don't diss Majel, if you look at all the credits you'll see she had NOTHING to do with this. Probably why it's so terrible too. Baby Berman and Bragga got their way... :frus: :Pirate:

pthfnder89
05-01-2002, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by LTBasker
SmurfVader, don't diss Majel, if you look at all the credits you'll see she had NOTHING to do with this. Probably why it's so terrible too. Baby Berman and Bragga got their way... :frus: :Pirate:

Actually, Majel has nothing to do with any of the shows really. She did have some influence on TNG, but it was mostly a courtesy after Genes death. The only real impact she had on DS9 and Voyager was as an actress.

I'm not saying this to diss her though. She's a very nice lady, but she has never had any control over the franchise.

Anyway, the reason Trip had to take the shuttle down was so that he could destroy the camps weapons, so that they couldn't shoot down the refugees as they were leaving.

Did anyone else get a HUGE kick out of seeing Al together with Scott Backula again?::) That was too cool!

LTBasker
05-01-2002, 04:28 PM
Actually she's always done the female computer voices from TOS to VOY.

Oh yeah, did anyone notice a small connection between this episode and Quantum Leap? Dean Stockwell's character was trying to help Scott Bakula's character get out of the situation after ending up where he shouldn't of and yet he can't save him right away? Not much of a connection I know but it's interesting.

pthfnder89
05-01-2002, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by LTBasker
Actually she's always done the female computer voices from TOS to VOY.

Sorry, yeah that's what I was refering to when I said her effect as an actress (since she never actually appeared in Voyager, aside from her voice)

She's really nice though. I have gotten to go to her house a few times, as she and my grandfather have been good friends for 20-25 years.

Except she had a huge dog that slobbered on me...:frus:

smurfvader
05-01-2002, 08:24 PM
LT Basker my comment was in no way meant as a dis to Majel, I was just mearly stating out of the two I would much rather have him back then her.

JIm

LTBasker
05-01-2002, 09:04 PM
I know, I was just stating that. Also Majel was I think the/a Executive Producer for Voyager and DS9. But her name isn't even there on Ent, I guess she didn't like the way he was doing things and so she decided to split. I would rather have Gene and Majel back on the series though, Gene in control and Majel in the computer. :D

Anyone see tonight's episode? Was it boring to anyone else? It was kinda slow paced and no red-uniformed crew members have died yet throughout the whole series... :(

pthfnder89
05-02-2002, 01:06 AM
Originally posted by LTBasker
Also Majel was I think the/a Executive Producer for Voyager and DS9.

Yeah that's the kind of courtesy thing I was talking about.
An Executive Producer credit in TV and movies also is usually given to someone who doesn't actually have anything to do with the show itself, but has some sort of connection to the people involved.

I kind of liked tonights episode, but you're right LTB, it was pretty slow. I liked the idea of Archer being a fan of water polo though. I don't know why but I think that's a lot more clever than him being a football fan or something.

Although I always liked Siskos passion for baseball.:)

Tycho
05-02-2002, 02:41 AM
I liked tonight's episode because it was not a two-armed, two-legged alien, it was intelligent, and it wasn't a psychopathic killer.

I also liked seeing the crew bonding better, and the waterpolo. I'm starting to get to know this crew.

Hoshi is also starting to develop a little more.

LTBasker
05-02-2002, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by Tycho
Hoshi is also starting to develop a little more.

Now if only the Vulcans would start acting right...

DeadEye
05-02-2002, 04:36 PM
Yes, and the end shot of last night's episode was really creepy: it was one big life form that covered the entire planet!!!

JediTricks
05-02-2002, 09:44 PM
I'm retitling this thread because we've moved past the Suliban Prison ep.

As for this week's ep, I thought it was a bit predictable, it smacked of "new-Trek" philosophy, that not everything is what it seems, despite its apparent actions, so long as nobody gets hurt. In the TOS ep "Devil in the Dark", the Horta isn't anywhere near as benevolent and there's a threat that's much more present, rather than some "let's all become one" web-monster. It's like most of the characters stand and gawk and be victims rather than run and shut hatches and set off intruder alerts - and that, to me, is sloppy writing.

I suppose it was better than a hit in the head, but we don't need more Voyager-esque light touch crap IMO.


As for the end shot, we've seen it before, with the changlings of DS9. This one was a little creepier-looking, but it wasn't exactly unexpected.

pthfnder89
05-03-2002, 05:51 PM
Originally posted by JediTricks
As for this week's ep, I thought it was a bit predictable, it smacked of "new-Trek" philosophy, that not everything is what it seems, despite its apparent actions, so long as nobody gets hurt. In the TOS ep "Devil in the Dark", the Horta isn't anywhere near as benevolent and there's a threat that's much more present, rather than some "let's all become one" web-monster. It's like most of the characters stand and gawk and be victims rather than run and shut hatches and set off intruder alerts - and that, to me, is sloppy writing.

I suppose it was better than a hit in the head, but we don't need more Voyager-esque light touch crap IMO.


I have kind of the same problem with Trek lately JediTricks. It's too bad because as I've been watching so many TNG reruns on TNN lately, I've started to appreciate how well TNG handled morals debates like this. Their discussions never seemed obvious or predictable, and the solutions always fit the problem.

I loved DS9 also, but towards the end of that show is when I think a lot of this moral moddle-coddeling started occuring.

LTBasker
05-03-2002, 06:13 PM
Originally posted by JediTricks
It's like most of the characters stand and gawk and be victims rather than run and shut hatches and set off intruder alerts - and that, to me, is sloppy writing.

They said phase pistols didn't do anything but when they would shoot it it would obviously get harmed. Why did they not concentrate fire on all the tentacles that were going after Archer...while standing right next to the exit with someone's hand over the shut & lock button. Stuff like that is annoying... :frus:

JediTricks
05-04-2002, 12:48 AM
I noticed that too Basker, it clearly reacted in pain!!! I guess they meant it wasn't stunned, but that's definitely not what they said.


pthfnder, I think it was actually the last season of TNG where it just barely started to creep in, but DS9 had those instances too.

LTBasker
05-04-2002, 02:31 AM
Here's the plot outline of one of the episodes for Wednsday (it's a double feature) and the reason why I'm posting it is cause it sounds a little cooky...and not really all that creative. It also just happens to be the one with the 3 people from the Aircraft Carrier Enterprise as NX-01 crewmen:

"When Archer and Trip are invited to a desert-like planet by an alien leader after they help fix his ship, they discover he is a terrorist who has lured them onto his planet under false pretenses. Meanwhile, T'Pol, while in command, faces a tough decision when she cannot locate Archer and Trip in the desert."

Desert...terrorist...wonder where they got that from? :rolleyes:

Sounds like they were watching MSNBC and thought of the "two major crewmembers lost in no where" plot...

pthfnder89
05-04-2002, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by LTBasker


They said phase pistols didn't do anything but when they would shoot it it would obviously get harmed. Why did they not concentrate fire on all the tentacles that were going after Archer...while standing right next to the exit with someone's hand over the shut & lock button. Stuff like that is annoying... :frus:

That really annoyed me too LTB. I literally started talking back to Malcom when he said that to T'Pol, saying something to the effect of "Then WHY did they let go when you shot them?" Lol, I promise I only talk to the TV when I get really upset ;):D

JediTricks
05-06-2002, 12:32 AM
Basker, I bet you dollars to donuts that we'll get the Voyager feeling to a mish-mosh of 2 or 3 old TNG plots out of that one. ;)

Tycho
05-07-2002, 01:31 AM
I thought one "point" of this show was that the crew would make mistakes and then the crews that come in the future would learn from it.

OK - my darker rewrite? They kill it, only at the expense of killing their own people (the extras) with it. Then they learn that Phlox's specimen is sentient and Hoshi communicates with it. They go to the home planet and have to appologize. It gets entered into the log as one big first contact failure. That would be more realistic.

Take the movie "Alien" (the first one) for another example. If that happened on a Starfleet ship, they would all die while they were busy trying to hook the universal translator up to communicate with the darn thing. While it was ripping Data's guts out, he'd comment: "Curious. This is a fascinating new development in interspecies relations..." CLICK!

One other thing: do any of you still get the Star Trek Communicator magazine?

I read the fan letters and people are still upset about when Riker and Picard shot Cmmdr. Remmick so hard that his head and body blew apart and his insides exploded all over the place. (When there were creatures inside of him).

Star Trek fans (a significant number of them) have no stomach for good action and drama. Since when is the show supposed to be a "Christian family drama?" Star Trek was supposed to be almost a "space reality show." And some things in space are neither pleasant, nor non-violent. And some shows are more exciting with some action in it.

There are also a significant number of Star Trek fans who like to walk on the darker side and want the rest of the fans to get a backbone. Those fans are typically attached to the USS Defiant such that the defiance of the original "Niners" will only grow in numbers as the kinder, gentler Star Treks lose viewers, and Captain Sisko will win the real war in the re-runs all over again!

LTBasker
05-07-2002, 02:01 AM
I didn't see anything wrong with that one episode of TNG with those little creatures, when I first saw it, it was more violent than I expected, but it was cool. I don't see how they could've not killed the people with the parasites in them - Crusher said that if she tried to remove it, it would kill the host. Did they ever continue that story? They said that the creature activated a homing beacon.

It's getting annoying with no crewmembers getting killed, I mean they've got all these problems, they shouldn't really have the ability to handle ALL of them on the spot. I guess Berman's "logic" on this is that since there is no way they could get more crewmembers is by going to Earth and starting over, that it's better to go with that it's more safe back then when it's unexplored and humans could still be amazed just by a giant space rock. (comet/asteroid)

I think TNG had quite a few good parts on action, I remember one episode where someone ended up sinking into the floor and getting stuck there. There was also this one part in one Borg episode, when they cut out a piece of the saucer.

pthfnder89
05-08-2002, 03:01 PM
Originally posted by Tycho
Since when is the show supposed to be a "Christian family drama?" Star Trek was supposed to be almost a "space reality show." And some things in space are neither pleasant, nor non-violent. And some shows are more exciting with some action in it.


Did someone in the Insider actually say that the show was supposed to be a Christian Family Drama? :rolleyes: lol, since when?

LTB - No, they never did continue the second season episode where those aliens were trying to take over Starfleet. There were actually several episodes in the second season that reference the alien conspiracy in Starfleet, and the last episode that dealt with it left a big cliffhangar as to whether the aliens would return or not.

But they never bothered to follow up. It's a shame because I think that could have given them some great storylines. But I think the conspiracy deal was never very popular among the fans, so they dropped it.:(

Tycho
05-08-2002, 03:21 PM
I would have liked to have seen "Conspiracy" continued.

But fans see whatever they want in Star Trek.

I think it strongly supports evolution.

Christian "creationists" like it because it supports strong morals, and shows decent people.

I like that too.

But they write in the Communicator saying it's just a show and that they think evolution and alien life are all just part of the fantasy appeal.

Since it is a show, they do have a point.

However, I liked my Deep Space Nine violent, seductively sexy, gritty, dirty, several times downright immoral, "By the Pale Moonlight" - when Sisko worked with Garack in a plot that assassinated the Romulan Defense Minister so they could bait the Empire into joining the war against the Dominion, thereby breaking their non-agression pact. Remember that one? Conduct unbecoming a StarFleet Officer no doubt, though Sisko didn't really know what Garack was up to until it was too late. Still...

A large segment of fandom out there wants a kinder, gentler Star Trek. To me, TNG was just that, and a mostly sterile show. It is my least favorites of the Star Treks I think, because it is just too "nice." When they did First Contact, it really showed what good entertainment that crew was capable of.

But hey, infinite diversity in infinite combinations, right?

Well, I like the down-and-dirty stuff! And I'm entitled to it!

Long live the 'Niners!!! Long live the Defiant!!!

pthfnder89
05-08-2002, 03:28 PM
Tycho - I loved DS9 too. The action, the writing, the characters (OBrien was one of my favorite charactes long before DS9 started)

And By the Pale Moonlight" is actually one of my favorite episodes. It's funny though; I thought the last season actually kind of waned for me. Particularly the very last episode which I really, really didn't like.

Tycho
05-08-2002, 03:44 PM
I did like "What you leave behind..." but I thought several things:

It would be like a ROTJ final battle:

Kira / Odo / Damar leading the ground war...

Worf / O'Brien leading the space battle, with Adm. Ross etc.

Sisko and Dukat in a final duel DURING the major war.

I think the writers wanted to do something different by separating the last Pa Wraith duel, but it didn't maintain the tension level that the main battle was working up to by coming at the end, during the course of the banquet celebration party after the battle (for most of the cast) was all but over.

Those who don't watch Trek, or DS9 particularly missed out on fights with more starships than had ROTJ, better space battle sequences, while still being made by the same people who made ROTJ in the first place!

JediTricks
05-09-2002, 08:37 PM
Enterprise's 2 eps yesterday:

- "Fallen Hero" was easily the best ep of the season thus far for me, I was really impressed by how this was played out. It was smart, political, exciting, action-oriented, and had a Vulcan ambassador who actually ACTED like an ambassador! And to top it all off, it pushed the limits of the NX-01's technology without making "new advances" (though Reed's comments about firing Phase cannons at warp being "worked on" is ludicrous).

- "Desert Crossing" was really boring, I couldn't believe how badly this one dragged. Was it trying to be topical? Was it trying to be yet another precursor to the prime directive? (yes) There was just so little in here I wanted to sit through, it was more like watching "a very special episode of JAG".

Tycho
05-09-2002, 09:16 PM
I had to tape both of these episodes because I went out when they were on.

But I've since watched Fallen Hero and have to whole-heartedly agree with Jedi Trick's assessment. They did do a nice job on the episode and kept it moving along. T'Pol also had just about her strongest episode. I liked her more in this show than usual.

In the beginning of the episode, when she suggested that John and Trip needed some specific kind of relaxation, if I were one of them, I would have asked her if SHE was offering to help them find it! How could they resist the temptation to do just that?

Then I'd supply an entirely logical reason for why T'Pol should relax with me, interjected with the fact that human males could need this break about once every Seven hours...or was it minutes? Hmmm. A point to ponder. But definitely I'd mention the fact that I noticed she was concerned and that I'd take her participation in my stress release most graciously and understand that it was all entirely logical. Yeah. Of course I would ;)

LTBasker
05-10-2002, 02:49 AM
Fallen Hero was pretty good, although it kinda bothered me when at WARP 4.9 they weren't having console explosions and considering they said they could hold it for only 10 minutes longer...and then they pushed it to warp 5. While the character of T'Pol was written better than in any other episode (though it seemed more like it was trying to attract horny people in the beginning...to fool them to watching the rest of the episode?) Jolene Blalock just doesn't seem to fit as a Vulcan... She seems more like she'd be in the 9 that 7 was from. :p

Desert Crossing I also found quite boring. The shuttle was quite far from the camp and it seemed that they were only after the camps but didn't really target areas around the camp, so why didn't they send a distress call which the people would've been able to pick up, find out they're from Enterprise, and then take them in for questioning cause that seems what would've been done if they had been caught. Or, they could've taken off, flown low away from the fire (did anyone see any other ships flying around???) and then take off...and if needed, Enterprise could've beamed them out when they got close enough. Or right when T'Pol found out that the guy was considered a terrorist it would've been logical to assume that they could have a way to destroy the shuttle - emergency beam up would've been the right step.

Oh and does this mean that they actually lost a shuttle?? It should've gotten blown up. :stupid:

Tycho
05-10-2002, 03:35 AM
You make valid points and I agree with most of what you wrote Basker, but I enjoyed the episode and found it an insightful episode into the cultivation of the prime directive.

pthfnder89
05-10-2002, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by JediTricks
Enterprise's 2 eps yesterday:

- "Fallen Hero" was easily the best ep of the season thus far for me, I was really impressed by how this was played out. It was smart, political, exciting, action-oriented, and had a Vulcan ambassador who actually ACTED like an ambassador! And to top it all off, it pushed the limits of the NX-01's technology without making "new advances" (though Reed's comments about firing Phase cannons at warp being "worked on" is ludicrous).


I only saw Fallen Hero, not the following ep, but I really liked it also. One thing I'm having problems with technology wise though, is the idea that the phase cannons are so much more powerful than their torpedoes. I know these probably aren't photon torpedoes yet, but it just seems odd to me that they can create energy weapons that can cripple vessels in one or two shots, but they can't create a physical explosive device that has any effect what-so-ever. :confused:

LTBasker
05-10-2002, 07:10 PM
Originally posted by Tycho
You make valid points and I agree with most of what you wrote Basker, but I enjoyed the episode and found it an insightful episode into the cultivation of the prime directive.

Yeah that was a good part about it, very Voyager-ish though, but still, it was ok. Two more episodes left, hope they're better... :crazed:

JediTricks
05-10-2002, 08:00 PM
Originally posted by pthfnder89
I only saw Fallen Hero, not the following ep, but I really liked it also. One thing I'm having problems with technology wise though, is the idea that the phase cannons are so much more powerful than their torpedoes. I know these probably aren't photon torpedoes yet, but it just seems odd to me that they can create energy weapons that can cripple vessels in one or two shots, but they can't create a physical explosive device that has any effect what-so-ever. :confused: I understand the frustration with tech being so all over the map, I'd share it if I weren't so wholy unimpressed with those tiny gnat stingers they call "torpedoes". The Enterprise's torpedoes are not photon torpedoes, and while we don't KNOW they're not based on the same tech, it's somewhat obvious (there seems to be no photonic envelope, no abundance of anti-matter for the warhead, no particular extra care for the storage and loading of torps) that the Ent torpedoes are conventional weaponry rather than energy or particle weapons. The torpedoes are basically just impact weapons, while the phase cannons are particle/energy weapons. The Enterprise left dock willing to defend itself against known enemies, but found that the unknown ones required greater firepower and a different school of thought because the opposition has already created something that effectively neutralizes the effects of conventional weaponry (shields, which are vulnerable to energy weaponry).

Tycho
05-10-2002, 08:20 PM
I agree with JediTricks and also add reference to the Classic episode Balance of Terror which says that the first Earth-Romulan conflict, which has yet to occur in this timeline, was fought with primative atomic weapons.

Interesting, because while we know from the future that Starfleet will learn of the Vulcan-Romulan relationship, this tells us that the Romulans must be considerably LESS advanced than the Vulcans, and that the two cultures have evolved along EXTREMELY different paths, though biologically they remain very similar.

pthfnder89
05-10-2002, 08:53 PM
Originally posted by Tycho

Interesting, because while we know from the future that Starfleet will learn of the Vulcan-Romulan relationship, this tells us that the Romulans must be considerably LESS advanced than the Vulcans, and that the two cultures have evolved along EXTREMELY different paths, though biologically they remain very similar.

That's probably why the Romulans hate the Vulcans so much. Their advanced "cousins" left them in the dark just like they did the humans. :)

Jargo
08-01-2002, 03:48 PM
Well not to interrupt this party that seems to have died a while ago....

We just got Enterprise over here and I'm hooked. I hated TNG with a passion I hate it's dated look that glorified in it's datedness. The eighties ideals were written all over that show and it stunk because of it. Patrick Stewart annoyed like no other can and Riker just got fat. Data has to be the single most irritating character ever created and his feeble attempts to disguise his own girth bulge were hilarious.

DS9 fared better. I'm with Tycho in his summary of the show. What TNG lacked in human feeling and emotion, DS9 made up for in plenty. Sisko could have been a mute for all I cared for his staccato delivery but at least he had balls. Kira is one of my all time favourite characters and her relationship with Odo was one of the main pulling points for me. Sisko's kid should have gone west the same way the Crusher brat was bundled off in TNG.
Voyager left me cold. I can find nothing good or bad to say about Voyager as i can barely recall any episode so bland was the flavour of the creation.
Enterprise feels fresh. The ship doesn't perform well, they have the 'be on your best behaviour' wet behind the ears attitude that I imagine Kirk started out with. The crew of Enterprise are so packed with human emotion that the screen buzzes with energy. The stories are trite and the resolution of the plot points in the final minute are often weak and contrived but that matters not to me for the cast put the energy and enthusiasm into their work that makes this show fun to watch again like the original show. I laugh all the time with Enterprise. The Klingons standing in the hologram demonstration and chirping up "I can see my house from here!" was the funniest thing i've heard on TV in ages. Tucker is unpredictable and antsy at times but roguish and charming at the same time. He's the star of the show and Bakula as Archer is just a pawn to the show. Archer doesn't fulfill any Criteria of hero but Tucker certainly does. Archer is inept and gauche in the face of alien civillisations new to him. The other crew members can run rings round him and seem to have far better ideas on how to resolve the problems they face. How Archer got the gig aside from the sympathy vote from the starfleet old boy regime I just do not know. He's hopeless as a captain. And taking a dog into space as anothing mre than a pet? Starfleet recognises that during the run up to the launch of the Enterprise they had figured out how manking stuffed up with things like the western world missions into the Amazon basin killing most of the indiginous peoples with the common cold. The same could be said of the Enterprises mission into space. They don't wear bio hazard suits and the very presence of the dog on the ship is enough to kill a planet with all the micro bacteria a dog carries. Sorry I'm waffling but that's my thoughts not problems or quibbles. I love Enterprise and I think Tucker and Hoshi represent 'all of us' far better than any character in Trek so far. Tucker is an everyman character and Hoshi is our fears and aspirations all rolled into one. She is a rock, but a rock that will sometimes roll down hill in a storm. There's so much growth in Hoshi. So many places they could take her character as long as she doesn't get stuck behind her console onboard.
Malcolm - boring. :)

JediTricks
08-01-2002, 04:27 PM
The party died because the season ended. :D

So, how many eps have you British seen yet?

Jargo
08-01-2002, 05:00 PM
Um th pilot was split into a two parter and so far with tomorrows ep, I think it's four episodes. Tonights was the Tucker gets pregnant episode. I don't know the episode titles because my TV guide doesn't give them. Just 'Enterprise starring Scott bakula' and not much more. The use of the Klingons was hackneyed and hamfisted but only in respect that they don't look like the original Klingons but act the same as the original ones. It's a strange compromise but no more than having a female Vulcan. And what race is the doctor? Looks like halfbreed Talaxian and Dominion. Where have doctors race come from or did they just swan in with the Vulcans? I'm a little confused on this. If the Vulcans are so objective, then wouldn't they have walked away from earth when faced with the paranoia and suspicion and aggresion from a US government when they made first contact? The US would invariably attempt to blast any invader out of the skies so how the Vulcans met with earthlings and set up interspecies meetings I do not know. As far as I can tell the first non human to step foot on earth would be subjected to a barage of tests and examinations and some internal. It's highly doubtful any alien would survive long in the care of the US government. Or the British government for that matter.
Back on topic, we really are just getting started on this. I realised your season had ended as I found the forgotten thread. How curious that so called fans leave a thread to gather dust just because the season ended. How much fun would it be if star wars was treated that way. "Oh well there's not a film due for three years, let's all bog off and do something else until then" odd very odd... How many episodes to the season then?
The figures look cool. I'm liking the bridge setup. What scale are they? Look to be six or eight inch figures. Would have been cool to get them in 3 3/4 scale :D

wedgeA
08-01-2002, 09:23 PM
I missed all of the season except for the pilot and season finale, both of which were good. Please keep in mind though that except for the original, all Trek series had subpar first and second seasons compared to their later years (except for Voyager which stunk all the way). I am definitely going to watch faithfully next year and I will get those figures.

Jargo
08-01-2002, 10:33 PM
Meant to ask if the theme song has any significance because it's dire. I cringe when it comes on. Is it like the official NASA song or something, or just supposed to be indicitive of the sort of crap rock, over sentimental turgidity that NASA pilots listen to as they take the walk to the craft? They have to change the theme if it's going to become successful as a series. The theme is so uncool it hurts. talk about being twenty years out of fashion.....:rolleyes:

Even my partner loves the series though and my partner is a bit of a purist when it comes to Trek. Being twelve years older than me the original show is still hanging in the air like a cloud of nostalgia waiting to dump it's soggy load on me whenever a show doesn't live up to expectations "It's not like it used to be.... yadda yadda yadda..."

I welcome the change in direction. Last night we had the halucinogen pollen episode. Tucker wigging out and T'Pol trying to contain the urge to vaporise him was amusing. It showed the Doc as fallible too. Not everything is going to be easy for the crew of the Enterprise and I like that. They gave the series metaphorical trainer stabiliser wheels in more ways than one.

wedgeA
08-01-2002, 11:32 PM
EJ,

The theme song is a cover, originally performed by Rod Stewart. Otherwise, that's about it.

jonboy
08-02-2002, 12:15 AM
A little off the subject, has anyone seen the previews for ST: Nemesis yet? It looks to be a really cool movie. You get to see the Enterprise E take a bad pounding. It look very action oriented, which is a nice change for Star Trek.

JediTricks
08-02-2002, 01:05 AM
I haven't seen the Nemesis preview yet, sadly.

Jargo, the tune is supposed to be "a departure" (because earlier Trek is somehow bad and wrong and crap apparently) yet embody the bright hope of the near future that the characters are supposed to be feeling or some such nonsense. It's a cover of a tune that Rod Stewart sang and made famous for "Patch Adams" (yeah, they dug all the way back 3 whole years for this gem) and was also made famous in the country-western genre by a female singer. The Ent version is sung by some opera singer though, but I swear it's just an impersinator doing his best Rod Stewart. :D

jonboy
08-02-2002, 08:39 AM
JediTricks, you can go to the Star Trek site and view it. That is where i saw it. It is well worth the download.

JediTricks
08-02-2002, 06:51 PM
I wish I could, but my ISP (earthlink) has totally crapped out on me lately.

Jargo
08-02-2002, 10:14 PM
The Opera singer is Russel Watson and he's also british. I just discovered that he sang the song at the opening of the Commonwealth games here in Manchester. To be honest I think Russel Watson stinks as both a personality and as an Opera singer. he probably thinks covering Rod Stewart will make him cool..... um, ok then... :rolleyes: They have to change the theme for season two. Dear god it's truly awful beyond compare. TNG was too brash for me and DS9 was too dull but Voyager had the right balance.
Just missed tonights episode because I was ill. :( hate missing stuff.

JediTricks
08-03-2002, 05:36 AM
Before Ent, I hadn't heard of Watson at all... 2 days after we learned about the theme, I noticed he had a commercial on TV for a concert. Bleah.

TNG was just TMP's theme. I agree with you about Voyager's theme, best thing about the show was how right they got the opening credits... too bad they didn't put as much quality into the rest of the series.

Sorry to hear you're ill big J.

scruffziller
09-30-2002, 03:48 AM
Dang Carbon Creek was the best episode ever!!!!!
I lave the fact that the Vulcan plumber was being called Moe and all the social references being tossed out there for them to experience.

LTBasker
09-30-2002, 06:58 AM
I of course had to pop in here. :D


SPOILERS







SPOILERS





SPOILERS







Well I warned ya...








Carbon Creek I think was only a better episode cause it was the only one able to escape CGI overuse! :rolleyes:

Actually the episode seemed like they took from:
TOS Episode (Don't remember the name, it's when McCoy goes crazy and jumps through a time gate)
VOY Episode '12:01' (I think that was the name, the one with Janeway's ancestor)
Coneheads
The incident in PA with the Coal Miners. (True in Carbon Creek there were 12 instead of 9 miners trapped, but then again they're borrowing from Voyager's '12:01' episode)

As usual, Vulcan logic and several TOS things were thrown out the door, like their whole "must get food" thing whereas it was stated in TOS that Vulcans can go several days without food and even sleep (it would've killed them that much to rummage through the woods for natural food?)

Two things REAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLYYYYYYY bugged me quite a bit: How did the Vulcan guy know how to play pool already, and why the heck did T'Pol's "grandmother" feel the need to show humanity velcro when she could've just gotten a piece of the ship and traded it for the cash (which is really screwed up considering that was an emotional response in the first place).

scruffziller
09-30-2002, 09:14 AM
Originally posted by LTBasker
Two things REAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLYYYYYYY bugged me quite a bit: How did the Vulcan guy know how to play pool already, and why the heck did T'Pol's "grandmother" feel the need to show humanity velcro when she could've just gotten a piece of the ship and traded it for the cash (which is really screwed up considering that was an emotional response in the first place).

Like he said, it was simple geometry. And with his "Vulcan" mind he was able to get a basic premise of the game from watching the opponent for which gaps he had to fill in. Plus the velcro looked like something, to the people at the time, something that a woman would make, sewing etc.. Plus it wasn't something EXTREMELY technological which would raise some suspicion or "contaminate the culture". Plus with the Vulcan's having different behavioral charachteristics, as one person said on these forums, the lightside Jedi are being shown with more agressive emotions (when by the rules they shouldn't) to show the charachters to have more depth.

smurfvader
09-30-2002, 04:57 PM
One thing about this episode that I was glad about was that this kid didn't grow up to be someone famous like in Quantum Leap. I kept waiting for the joke about him becomming a famous astronaut or someone involved with the space program. Then again maybe he was and I just didn't get the reference.

Jim

JediTricks
09-30-2002, 08:12 PM
I expected more funny and less phoney in this ep. Seems like Rick Berman and Brannon Braga want to explain away all of the 20th centuries greatest discoveries as space-tampering. First we have all computers invented by a guy who stole a 29th-century federation ship, now we have velcro sold by the Vulcans?!?

BTW Basker, "City on the Edge of Forever", it's one of TOS' most famous eps of all time, and one of the more controversial ones both because of the themes and because of the writing issues.

Basker's absolutely right about the pool issue, he might know how to get the cue ball to put the other balls in the pockets, but how would he know which balls to hit? There are some fairly complicated rules to the game, there's no way he could pick all that up from watching a few shots.

I think she chose to sell the velcro over other stuff because it was relatively minor in the development of human technology (better than Scotty's Transparent Aluminum shenanigans ;)). I thought it was a strained piece of writing but won the day by the straightforwardness of her actions - she saw that she had misjudged humanity and she found a kindred intelect in the boy and felt compelled to help him better himself - it's a move that breaks her directives not to interfere but on a personal level (which was the whole point of the ep) it was furthering science and knowledge which would be very Vulcan. "Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end" - Spock.

smurfvader, I totally felt the same way about the kid! I was more surprised that he wasn't someone big actually.

Master Goeweins
10-01-2002, 01:33 AM
The story was made up....... T'Pol invented the whole thing. She admitted that at the end of the episode. So, no logic or continuity needed. None of it meant anything.

I loved the episode so well, that I have watched it already four times. This one is a classic. I absolutely love this series.

smurfvader
10-01-2002, 05:13 PM
Master Goeweins you apparantly didn't watch the end. While T'Pol did say it was a story she never said it was a false story (Vulcan Logic there) and what was it exactly that she pulled out while she was in her quarters? Wasn't it a pocketbook used by her ancestor?

JediTricks
10-01-2002, 05:27 PM
Yeah, she let Archer and Trip think the story was made up, but then when she was alone she pulled out the handbag proving it wasn't. Personally, unless they find the vulcan who stayed behind soon, I feel like the ep was simply a trifle - nothing really was accomplished, nothing of Trek history was really affected, nothing was even explained.

LTBasker
10-01-2002, 08:02 PM
Originally posted by JediTricks
nothing really was accomplished, nothing of Trek history was really affected, nothing was even explained.

Sure it was, Blahock got some more glory shots, i think that was the whole point of the episode. :rolleyes:

As someone pointed out on another board I'm on, I think they said the guy Vulcan who stayed behind was named Mestral, which I think they said was the last name of the inventor of velcro, and while that would've made the episode a little more less messed-with-historyish, T'Pol's granny was the one who gave the velcro to those guys.

Tycho
10-02-2002, 02:18 PM
Well, tonights a new episode.

In light of that, don't you think we should let this thread die?

Gee, if I'm new and was a Trek fan and came in to a thread hoping to discuss the latest episode and then read, "Do you think they'll rescue Capt. Picard from the Borg or kill his character off?" I might think the thread was so out of date that I wouldn't be inclined to participate. 4 pages isn't THAT bad, and it has the virtue of keeping the core Trek group here together. But letting old episode threads die out so we can discuss new ones - or let those in other countries who are seeing 1st season late have a thread w.o. spoilers, does have it's virtues...

JediTricks
10-02-2002, 05:40 PM
Swiss engineer George de Mestral invented velcro in 1952, but got the idea in '41 while hunting with his dog (some of the thistles and brush kept getting stuck to the dog's fur). The word comes from 2 french words: velour (velvet) and crochet (hook). I guess the vulcan Mestral could have seen the Earthlings looking for an answer and given the quickest one he had, or maybe T'pol's granny just thought that'd be the best name on the patent info. I'd feel kinda bad if I was the real George de Mestral though, he's just been erased from history.

Bleahlock gets a lot of screentime, that's for sure. I guess Rick Berman is banking a lot on her physical attributes attracting audiences (that scene with her behind the sheet was so blatant I thought they were just gonna have "T&A" written on the screen).


Hey Tycho, if you think it's such an issue, why don't you make a poll asking whether forumites read all the pages in a multi-page thread or simply skip to the last page? As for SSG policy on this, you and I have discussed this several times before already so I think you already know the arguments. But consider this, people see that the thread is STILL active, that probably would tell them that the last page has current discussions.

Jargo
10-02-2002, 06:41 PM
As a 'foreigner' who has yet to see all of season one, I would say that if i was looking for spoilers this would be an excellent place to start. The fact that it's still running as an active thread is great. I read these posts and while I get some information i just pass over it because by the time i get to see the latest episodes I'll only have a vague recollection of this discussion. What i get from this thread is a big overview of how well the episodes are recieved so that when i see them I can guage for myself whether the people posting here were accurate.
My own views on enterprise are that Bakula is a lousy choice for captain. His sceptical perma-frown really gets me agitated. He seems so ill equipped to be a crewman let alone captain a starship.
Blalock is just a gratuitous babe and offers nothing but a hefty bustline and a character who drifts in and out of Vulcan and human.
Reed seems superfluous to me since either T'pol or Mayweather or Tucker could implement and operate any weapons.
Characters who work best are Trip, Hoshi and Dr. Phlox. each of these has tons of pathos and depth to them. The other characters seem cardboard and flat. Perhaps Cutler is it? yeah she has scope for improvememnt but at least she has something about her. A bit of spunk. Her burgeoning relationship with Phlox has been great to see. It's nice that it didn't just happen and then get forgotten by the next episode. For me though Billingsley and his fish out of water portayal of Phlox has been the highpoint of Enterprise. A Doctor who doesn't have all the answers and also is not afraid to say 'can't be done' it's great. I got tired of the trek doctors being able to cure everything with a hydrospray. Although Phlox does seem to be headed that way. The coldness of the Vulcans against the warmth of Phlox makes for a good contrast within an episode and it's strange that he should see T'pol as an ally among humans when she is exactly not what he needs. Perhaps this will seem like retreading old ground. Sorry to be so tedious.
Oh and the last episode to air here was 'shadows of P'Jem' I noted that the lead Andoorian was played by the guy who played Weyoun. I noted it because he's so hammy and has that awful grating raspy voice. How many other characters has he played? :rolleyes:

darthvyn
10-02-2002, 07:10 PM
i just dig backula for that almost hasselhoffian essence...

as for vulcans... i don't think anyone's been able to pull of the emotionless acting since the original... t'pol always comes off as sarcastic, not emotionless. flat delivery doesn't mean no emotion. although, that may be more of a writing problem than an acting one...

dr. phlox is a highly enjoyable character - agreed!

so far i dig what i've seen. never been a huge trek fan, but i can appreciate it. i do like the use of old school sound fx for certain things like the plasma cannons and such - the alarm sound when they fire...

also, the claustrophobic feel of the ship itself - like a space submarine almost. i dig that.

Master Goeweins
10-02-2002, 09:44 PM
smurfvader- you're right. I don't know why I keep on dismissing that quick point at the end of that episode. But, I would agree that it did not really affect the timeline or pre-established history. Messing with our own real history is just plain fun.

I do really like this Star Trek series. I like Bacula, and I actually like Blalock as T'Pol. I don't really care for gratuitous T&A, but I do like her as a Vulcan. And this is the first time that I actually like every crew member. And the look of the ship is great. I also like the submarine feel. And who dosn't love the Victorianesque Jewels Verne space suits..... Awesome!

Tycho
10-03-2002, 01:29 AM
JediTricks: point well taken.

Emperor Jargo: Jeffrey Combs also played Brunt, F.C.A. - my favorite role of his. His Andorian character is reprised and imrpoved upon in a later episode I think (unless Shadows was the prison break and the 3-4 way gunfight?) - I felt the character was played better by Combs in that one, his 2nd appearance, rather than in the on with the Vulcan spy station.

Tonights episode sort of introduced the Romulans, kept with cannon, amazingly enough, and dealt with Archer's command style. That's his character, not his acting (or probably a combo of both). I agree that Trip is a better character for me to identify with. Hoshi and Phlox do have more depth to them, although I'm not as taken with Phlox as you. To me is a Neelix like comic-relief character, just not as annoying as Neelix was. For that Out-of-Starfleet comic alien on the cast, if they have to have it, QUARK was the best. I like his dark side. He probably wouldn't kill anyone, but he'd hire someone to do it! Garak was even better, but just barely not part of the permanent cast of DS9.

That is still by far the best show, but Enterprise has some potential.

BTW, true to Classic cannon, no Romulans were seen in the entire episode. They communicated by voice speaker only - and a few plasma volleys.

The ship really got torn up, didn't it? I hope they will make the ship believable and leave it scarred. Voyager should have come home unrecognizeable with Borg weapons added to it, etc. Instead it looks like Janeway had a spacedock. Enterprise should evolve more as a character, (the ship I mean) than Voyager did.
Let's hope.

Sure they'll patch her up, but lets wait a few episodes.

scruffziller
10-03-2002, 08:37 AM
Darn I don't get to see it till Saturday. We don't get UPN here.

Jayspawn
10-03-2002, 11:27 AM
This week's episode w/ the Romulans was a good one. I do wish they would have showen themselves though. The romulan ship looked good -old style like it is in the Original Series. But I would like it if at some point they showed some contunuity with the Original Series.

Jargo
10-03-2002, 01:56 PM
I have an awful grating feeling in the pit of my stomach that the original series will be remade........ I mean what's next after Enterprise? Next step on is Cap'n James Tyberius Kirk right?

Imagine all the CGI you could cram into the original series storylines. A real Russian playing Chekov, A real Scottish person playing Scotty. Radio controlled tribbles, A whole new ship, all effects and no trousers version of the OS. It's bound to happen sooner or later.......

Off topic police alert WAOOOOOO! WAOOOOOOOO!!

Tycho, you like how Combs plays his characters? He just grates on my nerves. Too camp for my tastes. Seems more like a stage actor than a TV or film actor. Same with whatsisname who plays Q.
I want to know how polarising the hull will repel so many different forms of weapon. They can't be able to repel all forms of laser or tachion beam or particle accelerator ray or whatever mumbo jumbo technojargon it is they use these days. Realistically the Enterprise should be toast by now. And how come they always just sit there and take it never making evasive manouvres. All they do is sit there and 'open hailing frequensies' Totally unmilitaristic. If it were me I'd haul tail first sign of a particle weapon. :D

AmanaMatt
10-03-2002, 02:11 PM
I have a feeling that Braga, Berman & company will rewrite TOS as well. On some issues, like the very modern looking flight suits the Enterprise folks wear, we have to cut the PTB some slack....


As for not seeing the Romulans themselves, Braga is holding true with TOS's continuity (for now) that Humans and Romulans never saw each other face-to-face until 'Balance of Terror.'

As for the Romulan ship, very similiar to the TOS look, but with the modern green coloring - very, very cool ship.

At this point in 'continuity' it appears that the following are Captains of (the?) Enterprise before Kirk: Archer, April and Pike.

thespar
10-03-2002, 04:11 PM
look like the preveiw for the next week show being to a unkwon space dock that might fix them.

smurfvader
10-03-2002, 07:04 PM
Since Enterprise takes place about a hundred years before TOS there could be plenty of captains before April. In fact the ship was about 15 years old when Kirk got it.
Jayspawn, what did you mean when you said you would like it to show more continuity with the original series?
JIm

JediTricks
10-03-2002, 07:08 PM
Tycho, I think those were disruptor blasts, not plasma volleys. Plamsa torpedoes are much slower IIRC. The ship did get very torn up, I was kinda surprised that with all that breached hull they could still go to warp, I would have thought structural integrity would have been too compromised (either the ship would have shaken apart or the power drain keeping the structural integrity together would have been too high to engage the warp engines).


Jargo, when Sci-Fi channel was airing those "Special Edition" 1.5 hour eps of TOS, they were considering doing a CGI-upgrade to all the TOS eps for a more advanced "Special Edition".

As for polarizing the hull, I think it's just to keep the hull plating from coming apart when it gets hit - the plating becomes magnatized to the other plating and to the inner frame so a hit has less chance of breaking or shaking it off.


Amanamatt, didn't the Romulan/Human war start because they didn't understand each other over their primative radio communications? I thought that's what it was, which would kinda kill the continuity.


SPOILER ALERT FROM YESTERDAY'S EP

...

..

.

How come they didn't use the transporter on Reed?

Jargo
10-03-2002, 07:26 PM
EDIT: JT posted while I typed this, but I'll let it stand anyway:

I forgot about Pike. Actually, they could get round redoing the OS by having a series that occurs in the same time frame as Kirk but elsewhere on different missions. There must have been more than one enterprise class ship out there. What was that old clunker Kirk used to captain? had the warp engines above and below the main body instead of one at each side. That'd be a cool place to go, early Kirk era. Maybe not with Kirk but the time period of his early days.

Sorry dragging this away from Enterprise again.

I find plenty of continuity with the OS in terms of the stylistic approach to directing each episode. There are nuances to the performances that have traces of an acting style that's long out of date but typical of shows made in the sixties. There are certain design elements that ring true but again, because they took the decision to do stuff like have the Klingons be modern Klingons not OS Klingons it sort of monkeyed around with the ethos behind the show. It's a dichotomy I feel of how to best present the show within a certain time frame and also present the show that makes it pallatable to an audience of the 21st century with advanced tastes and expectations as far as effects and content go.
It's sad that they couldn't make a Trek without a skimpy clad female but then again would it Trek without a scanty clad female?
They have a Kook for a captain but is that just formulaic or what?
I haven't seen as much of this as you guys but I'm sensing that you don't much like the new show. My jury is still out until I've seen the whole season but I will say that from all I've seen so far it suffers from the same problems early TNG suffered, self consciousness. Everything seems tightly wound and tense, none of the characters has relaxed yet and none of the actors seems to have relaxed either. There are depths of humanness that these actors could be using to portray characters but they have only skimmed the surface with Enterprise so far, making viewing seem like a fairly hollow experience. I hope that changes by the time I get to see season two. I visited the official Trek site and read up on the season two episode synopsii, looks like a good season with a couple of low points plotwise. From my POV they should drop the temporal war. Just plain stupid. But what do I know, huh? :)

Thanx for the x'splanation JT, makes sense - sort of... ;)

2nd edit:
Channel four now show a repeat of each episode on a Saturday evening and the new episodes on a Sunday evening. So I'll rewatch the Shadows of P'Jem episode this saturday and re-appraise my opinion of Combs performance. If he's going to keep cropping up I guess I need to try and get used to him.

scruffziller
10-05-2002, 09:16 AM
Originally posted by Amanamatt
I have a feeling that Braga, Berman & company will rewrite TOS as well. On some issues, like the very modern looking flight suits the Enterprise folks wear, we have to cut the PTB some slack....


As for not seeing the Romulans themselves, Braga is holding true with TOS's continuity (for now) that Humans and Romulans never saw each other face-to-face until 'Balance of Terror.'

As for the Romulan ship, very similiar to the TOS look, but with the modern green coloring - very, very cool ship.

At this point in 'continuity' it appears that the following are Captains of (the?) Enterprise before Kirk: Archer, April and Pike.

I wouldn't mind seeing some extra TOS episodes made with a new cast. But leave the original eps alone. But like my friend says "WILLIAM SHATNER IS JAMES T. KIRK!!!!", so who knows.

Tycho
10-10-2002, 06:05 PM
Pretty good episode last night: the repair station episode.

Pretty realistic and great continuity, too.

They involved the whole cast rather nicely I thought.

Malcolm got to blow stuff up again. He sure liked that.

The episode with alien kidnappings, etc. had Brannon Braga's influence all over it (he writes the weirdest stuff always). I didn't pay attention to the credits, but I'd be betting on Braga.

My VCR switched over to Birds of Prey before I got to see clips from next week's Enterprise. Anyone know what it will be about?

JediTricks
10-10-2002, 08:23 PM
Next week's ep will involve the captain having insomnia and some possible added sexual tension between T'pol and Capt Archer. I'm betting it's an alien force at work.

I thought this week's ep was good up until the halfway point and then became pedestrian. I thought it was odd that when the station opened up, Trip said there was now enough room for "the saucer section" - odd because the ship is like 75% saucer and that saucer is wider than the warp nacelles that make up the other 25%.

LTBasker
10-10-2002, 08:45 PM
Sounds like another Voyager episode. :eek: but not :sur:

:D

The saucer comment, I was wondering about that too, I was thinking maybe Trip thought that the station would only have the saucer section docked inside the tube which would make sense for him not really worrying about the nacelles cause it would've been a very noticeable flaw since in both height and width the nacelles stick out further.

scruffziller
10-13-2002, 06:49 PM
This season gets better and better. I love all the introduction to technology from other aliens that we see in abundance in STNG on. The station seemed to have a "Borg" quality to it. Perhaps it will be part of something later on, since it.........














spoilerz.....

















repaired itself.

LTBasker
10-13-2002, 08:11 PM
Ya know they've been showing Star Trek: TMP lately which got me thinking, the station didn't have to be Borg but rather it could've been from the same planet that V'ger got upgraded from which has never been officially connected to the Borg. Possibly before the machines took over that planet or was just an explorer machine that also granted help to those who needed it for a price (along with a chance to get a specimen of alot of species).

I think it was a little too advanced for Enterprise though and belonged more of in Voyager, but I have to say it was one of the better episodes of season 2, heck of both seasons.

scruffziller
10-21-2002, 09:59 AM
Man thingz iz heating up!!!!! I can't get enough of seeing T'Pol in those skimpies....!!!!:D :crazed:

Tycho
11-28-2002, 03:36 AM
Aside from the fact that I like this week's attempt to give Hoshi something more to do, it was very unoriginal.

Captain Kirk first started floating around invisible in "The Tholian Web."

Ensign Ro and Geordi LaForge were "cloaked and phased" in an episode with the Romulans.

Sisko was a spirit guiding Jake after some energy accident - not to mention the time they were all turned into holograms in one of Julian's 007 holo-adventures.

B'Ellana was once a ghost, as was Janeway and Chakotay, too I think.

Well, there's now the opportunity to explore this original story with Trip since he so wanted it to have happened to him....:rolleyes:

JediTricks
11-29-2002, 09:50 PM
I thought this ep was sorta interesting since the concept of transporter psychosis due to not having a multiplex pattern buffer and a linear quantum sychronizer was explored in Trek literature (one of the tech manuals, I think) pre-ST4 and expanded upon in an ep of TNG. However, this Ent ep was not very creative at all since almost the exact same thing happens to Dr Crusher in an ep of TNG entitled "Remember Me" where she gets sucked into a static warp bubble. The ep seems to be mirroring Hoshi's character which also seems to be fading away to nothing with each new ep.

Finally, I want to say that I'm really underwhelmed with the musical score of these eps, it's gotten so standardized by Voyager and DS9 that the impact is almost completely depleted. TOS had a great score even when it was corny, why can't Ent?

wedgeA
12-02-2002, 04:15 PM
I agree with the general sentiment that the Hoshi episode suffered from a lack of originality, but I thought they were some nice character moments. I liked the conversation that Archer had with her father. It was convoluted and annoying, but I thought it seemed pretty real and added some depth to Archer, especially how Archer seemed to fumble for words.

JT,

I have to agree about the score, it is very pedestrian. I think TOS succeeded because they came up with a few memorable tunes, but used theme constantly. I don't know why the later shows did not go that route, probably felt it was too antiquated. However, I seem to be only one who actually likes the opening theme song. "It's been a long road..."

JediTricks
12-03-2002, 12:37 AM
I think they stopped using powerful obvious scores during the middle of TNG season 1. For some reason, the first half of season 1 of TNG had a lot more of it, but used in the most corny of ways and never anything REALLY strong IMO. I guess when the acting started getting good, they felt they didn't need music anymore. :D (though they still used some of the same pieces through all of season 2 IIRC, just not really with the same conviction)

I have warmed to the song a little, but I still don't like the guy who sings it. His version is 1-dimensional for me, what's the point of trying to copy Rod Stewart's sound on the song if you don't also copy his depth when he was singing it?

Tycho
12-12-2002, 03:00 AM
Tonight's episode rocked! That was a total fantasy of mine - to be trapped on a tropical island with a gorgeous girl who I could ordinarily not reach. Well, it might be every guy's fantasy! But they executed an old idea pretty well!

Trip is so much my hero. They cast the girl so well, too. What a hottie! She was so perfect! I hope we see her in a definitely non-tragic recurring episode!

Wasn't this just a Star Wars inspired episode with an aristocratic Princess rescue and the rogue with the handle on all her love?

It so much reminded me of the Empire Strikes Back and Han and Leia in the asteroid cave.

I don't care what it ripped off from. Well done!

JediTricks
12-12-2002, 07:46 PM
I totally disagree with you Tycho, this one felt so pedestrian to me. This ep felt like they simply grabbed a handful of other Trek eps that dealt with the same issues from pretty much every ST series and coughed an "Enterprise" title onto the script - nothing was original or fresh or surprising. This was an exercise in "been there, done that" for me, the only thing I was surprised at was how little time Trip and the Queen actually spent on the planet.

Tycho
12-19-2002, 05:19 AM
This was a great episode! I was fearful for Trip, that he would be discovered when he was out there all alone.

I never trusted the 3 tag-a-long aliens.

It was really funny seeing T'Pol and Archer put up with each other when trying to find peace: the dog, the waterpolo game, T'Pol's journal recordings (can't she just mute the sound on her PADD?), Malcolm getting closterphobic and everyone getting on each other's nerves. The details like remembering all of Doctor Phlox's animals. And what the heck was Hoshi doing? Was she shaving her face? Some girls have to do this, but almost never Asian girls... I didn't catch what she was doing to her face. But I gather they had no privacy during those 8 days.

The action was really cool too - the shoot-out in the ship's galley, etc.

Plus we finally got to see what's inside the tubes the nacelles are attached to (if I figured out where they were in the ship correctly!)

This was a good idea - and very original. The closest it came to copying anything was TNG's "Starship Mine," with the barion sweep and the 3 terrorists versus Picard. But this show was far from it and the threat of incinerating the whole crew by turning on the warp engines was too intense to ignore!

The wave effect and the ship all shaking was good as well. I think an exterior shot showing how massive this thing was that it was blowing through planets (not blowing up planets, just like a windstorm - blowing through) so that you can see there was no way Travis could fly around it.

But this was an awesome episode! Strong writing's come back!

Do you think later ships like Kirk's or Picard's could have weathered that storm, or are they just smart enough to detect them and steer around them in the future?

LTBasker
12-19-2002, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by Tycho
And what the heck was Hoshi doing? Was she shaving her face?

I think she was doing her teeth. You know how from the first Trek movie and up they have the sonic showers? Well while they don't have them in ENT, I think it would be possible for them to have something like sonic toothbrushes.


Originally posted by Tycho
Plus we finally got to see what's inside the tubes the nacelles are attached to (if I figured out where they were in the ship correctly!)

I dunno, I thought they were in the nacelle. From early episode descriptions they said they were gonna be in a nacelle. I still can't figure out how they would get to either place though with the way they were doing things. They kept making vertical climbs which they wouldn't need to if they were going to the section that holds the pylons. If they were going to the nacelles via the pylons, well they would've had to of made angled climbs instead of vertical.


Originally posted by Tycho
This was a good idea - and very original. The closest it came to copying anything was TNG's "Starship Mine," with the barion sweep and the 3 terrorists versus Picard.

I dunno, seemed like a mix of that episode and any Jefferies tube episode.


Originally posted by Tycho
Do you think later ships like Kirk's or Picard's could have weathered that storm, or are they just smart enough to detect them and steer around them in the future?

The whole problem was that they didn't have Warp 7 to out run it and that's why they had to ride it out. So I'm guessing later on they are able to pick those sort of storms up and just out run them to a safe location.

Actually what I want to know was why they didn't just go under it. ;)


Overall it was an enjoyable episode, though some technicalities got in the way:
-Why couldn't the whole crew help take back over the ship considering the alien vessel was smaller and most likely had a smaller crew. Surely they could've taken the whole ship back in less than 20 minutes, and no doubt they have enough suits for everyone and also have them there in case something went wrong.
-If they did go into the nacelle, why wouldn't the other nacelle have a catwalk in which they could've divided up and made more space.


But it wasn't bad, wasn't one of the better ones as it had a slow moving beginning and rushed ending.

JediTricks
12-19-2002, 06:51 PM
They were in the nacelles, directly under the warp coils. I kept trying to figure out why Phlox took his animals out of Sickbay, didn't he say it was shielded? Also, why did they keep referring to "the catwalk" when there were 2 of them?

Basker, the rungs on the ladder were slightly angled, suggesting they were going down the pylons at an angle, not straight down. I think they *could* have said the access tunnel was at a steeper angle, but that would have cut the pylon in half rendering it totally useless. Or they could be stepped down, so you go down 2 stories, then over, then down again, then over, etc.. What was strange to me was when they came out the bottom of the tunnel, they stepped into a perpendicular corridor, but if they just came out of the pylons, they'd still have to walk quite a ways forward until they came across an area that led to both sides.

The whole crew couldn't take on the enemy crew stealing the ship because they only brought 3 EVA suits into the catwalk.

I also didn't understand why this thing was travelling at "high warp", since there's nothing in the Trek galaxy that travels that fast that isn't in subspace except for a non-naturally-occuring wave. Also, if this storm is travelling at warp, then it should be bigger than 4 star systems since it took so long to pass Enterprise by (and Enterprise was actively going towards its end, shortening the time inside even further) so why didn't Enterprise spot it on their sensors?

Also, why were these catwalks so big? With the plasma streams deactivated on the Ent-D, the nacelle observation room and walkway areas aren't much bigger and those nacelles are WAY bigger than NX-01's. Finally, I felt like the ep was ok so long as you didn't think about it, but the crew all together like that was really how I expected the regular ship areas to be, smaller, tighter, cramped, more like a submarine.


Tycho, as for later ships, they all have shields so they would definitely be able to handle this storm.

Tycho
01-09-2003, 02:05 PM
Last night's episode was very good - and very realistic.

Trip's my favorite character, so that always helps.

Very good acting on Conner Traineer's part (Trip Tucker).

Not much to say, but I bet these aliens might be recurring and be used to come to the rescue at some unexpected point, when the Enterprise gets into some situation that seems irrecoverable.

It would be cool to see them fight with their larger ship.

JediTricks
01-09-2003, 10:43 PM
Despite being fairly well-travelled territory (it'd be easier to count the number of sci-fi franchises that didn't use this plot), I found last night's ep to be a solid effort even though there was one gaping logic-hole throughout followed by a slightly smaller one near the end. Trip is still this show's best asset, a character that - unlike his captain and the Vulcan - actually seems really excited to be an explorer on the new frontiers, and this episode highlights this nicely.

The logic holes I found were this: why didn't the shuttlepod have emergency supplies like a phase pistol or a handheld universal translator or a thermal tent? This basically affects the whole ep because the premise is based around Trip not having important things you'd find on a starship's shuttle.

and this: when the Arconian and Trip are transmitting and baking in the dawn sun, why didn't they simply go to the other side of the peak of the hill they were on for shade? It was shown to be only a few feet away and totally accessable.

Tycho
01-10-2003, 05:02 AM
JT: I thought your second point was very valid and I thought the same thing too. That wouldn't get them out of the air temperature, but there's something to be said for getting them out of direct sunlight.

As to your first point: maybe they are stupid, but from now on it will become SF protocal to have these things - the thermal tent, some sunscreen, a phaser or two, and a cooling tent, etc. as standard aboard shuttles. They probably weren't designed for that, or regularly carrying it.

Of course the real reason for it all was to move the plot along and make Trip and his Arkonian friend dependant on each other - but after this episode, they have none of the excuses I thought of.

Oh - I also think it will be a theme for Enterprise to cover the same kinds of episodes all the other Star Treks have DONE BEFORE, but be unprepared for them, make mistakes, and make changes accordingly. I'm not saying that will entertain everyone - but we do have the Temperal Cold War, a supposed war with the Klingons, and a war with Romulans forthcoming, once they think they've got the characters developed enough that we'll care about them. Plus, races that relations have been established with like the Andorians, the Arkonians, etc. will eventually recurr and come together, probably because of war, and join in a Federation (against the Klingons or Romulans?) and accomplish something the Vulcans were too arrogant to achieve. We'll see humanity at its best - beating those that think we're apes that didn't fall far from the tree. But in the meantime, we'll see 'prime directive' shows that will establish why they create the Prime Directive - and we'll see other protocals like "captains on away missions" etc. start to get established. The 're-runs' will feel like that, but their newness to the characters will add something fresh to it. Trek has burned its course and new ground and new story ideas will be hard to find. The only other logical places for new shows to go would be the time ship police and explore time travel constantly, Starfleet Academy and do 90210 at Space Camp (though "WB shows do appeal to me if they're like Smallville), or go with "Excelsior," or throw TNG, DS9, and VGR's less than main-stars together on a new show that tackles all the same issues again, this time with Captain Troi, or whatever.

Anyway, I agree with everything JT said about Trip Tucker - he is the best character and for all those reasons - though I think Archer likes to explore, but he's just more reserved than being about jumping up and down about stuff. Trip's unusual for an engineer, because he didn't have to become one to be involved in space exploration, which seems to be his main reason for being there (not just to test the warp 5 engine). Trip could have been an exo-biologist, an interpreter, any other kind of scientist that would be more prone to join away teams. However, maybe his desire to explore drew him to engineering so he could be indispensible and have to be part of a crew? In any case, he is way more eager to leave his engine room than any previous engineer: Scotty and LaForge were a lot about their engines, though LaForge does like exploring more than Mr. Scott ever seemed prone to. O'Brien loves fixing things, though I think he enjoys a good fight. I think B'Elanna wanted a good fight first, but she found an area where she had talent and could be useful so she studied engineering at the Academy before she became a Maquis (and found her fight). Trip Tucker is more of an explorer than any of them though. I think JediTricks is right - that's really appealing about his character.

LTBasker
01-10-2003, 07:24 AM
I haven't seen the episode, but from what I've read about it, it sounds like a rip from the TNG episode "Darmok." It's the one where Picard is beamed down to a planet by an alien Captain (who's language is based on metaphore) in hopes that he can teach Picard the language.

Tycho
01-10-2003, 01:41 PM
It is, but it's nice to see that Trip can pull off a great episode that grips you like Darmok and Picard did. I think I'll like the Cold War episodes and Federation forming epsiodes more than any others (until they do a Klingon or Romulan War arc) but now this 're-run's' out of the way. Fortunately they don't have a holodeck....:rolleyes:

smurfvader
01-10-2003, 08:09 PM
This episode was okay, but I liked it better the first time I saw it when it was a movie titled "Enemy Mine" with Louis Gosset Jr as the alien.

JIm

Tycho
01-10-2003, 10:54 PM
You know, if they are going to copy stories, I'd like to see them do Starfleet versus Aliens.

I think I'd rather see that take place in the 24th Century, not the 22nd, but it would be a scene stealer for sure.

What would SF crew members do if they were in the position of the Sulako (Ripley's military ship she went in on in the 2nd Aliens film)?

Would they just beam the Queen into nothingness?

Would Worf go crazy and have a field day hunting them with his bare hands?

Would Data try and communicate with them, because he can't carry a chest-burster since it couldn't develop in him?

Would Kirk or Riker find the Queen attractive and the next likely "playmate of the week?" ;)

Would the Borg try and assimilate them or destroy them? Borgs would be vulnerable to face-huggers / chest-bursters.

Would the Dominon just wipe them out? How? Acid could harm the shapeshifters I'm assuming. Jem Hadar warriors could be used as hosts, too.

Holodoc could confuse the heck out of them, as he can't be impregnated either.

If Dax became a host, could she produce an alien symbiant? Hehe - a worm with 2 sets of steel teeth!

I think if the NX Enterprise crew met them, they'd be very ill-prepared to deal with it.

I do think it could be a cool crossover though. Trek-nology might put an interesting twist on Aliens. Though a phaser set on disintegrate would probably end the battle pretty quick, so the plot would have to get around that, or make it more difficult for the heroes to win.

LTBasker
01-10-2003, 11:09 PM
Originally posted by Tycho
I think if the NX Enterprise crew met them, they'd be very ill-prepared to deal with it.

Hmm...

*[theme song] something about the heart, lalala*

Archer: What's going on?!
Reed: Some sort of alien ship, sir (bad joke pause)

Everybody but Archer: They're firing, Jon, stop playing with your mutt and act like Cap'n!
Archer: Cap'n Crunch? Oh right right, err.. extend the cannons and fire gently.

-cannons retract but they don't fire "gently", rather they malfunction and blow the alien ship to pieces!!!-


Archer: What happened?
Trip: It was them pesky klingot varments!
Archer: Silly Klingots...

-camera pans by ship and it goes to wa-err...camera pans back in Enterprise-

T'Pol: You forgot to put me in the spotlight!!!
Hoshi: Hey, me too...

-T'Pol transports Hoshi into space while starting a strip and THEN the camera pans out with the bridge lights emitting fluxuating light colors as they go to warp-

Tycho
01-11-2003, 09:05 AM
Silly.

Now anybody want to talk seriously about any of the Star Trek crews meeting Aliens? (from Alien, Aliens, Alien3, Alien Resurrection)

And what would happen?

LTBasker
01-11-2003, 07:46 PM
Ok, fine. :D

Enterprose/1701 - They'd have a more fighting chance, but it's unlikely they'd win against aliens that use them as hosts, unless they could possibly transport them out.

Enterprise-D - Tough decision, they've definitely got a very high fighting chance. Picard's shown he wouldn't hesitate in killing crewmembers who fall victim so they can't be used as hosts.

Deep Space 9 - Being a space station, they would probably be in deep. Don't know about them..

Voyager - While it is smaller, it does hav emore advanced systems, and it's likely they would have an advantage over aliens trying to take over the ship. However it doesn't seem like Janeway would kill her own crew even if they weren't far from a burster.

NX-01 - Would most likely die, they haven't really got anything that advanced that could help them out. Theres only 82 of them spread throughtout that quite-open ship, by the time anyone knew they'd probably be nearly half gone.


I actually wouldn't mind seeing something like this, it'd be alot more natural than the whole Borg issue if they just stumbled across these aliens. The key thing on the situation though is that the aliens most likely wouldn't even try a ship-to-ship fight, but just find a way to get inside. We haven't had alot of purely phsyical fighting thing in Trek for quite awhile, it's usually been doubled with ship-to-ship fighting as well like the Borg, or just ship-to-ship.

JediTricks
01-12-2003, 05:42 AM
Tycho, in previous eps, it seems like the shuttlepods carry a certain level of emergency equipment with them that was lacking here. If Trip had mentioned that shuttles were stripped down for this sort of work, I would have bought it (though it would have felt too convenient), but since it seemed like they covered some of the supplies issues in season 1, that's where I really felt lost. They could have written around these things too, like "damaged in a fire during the crash" or something, but they didn't.

As for Enterprise doing those staple Trek eps in an "unprepared" way, I'm afraid that's all too likely. We already had those "first time for everything" eps in a little thing most fans like to call "The Original Series". ;) There's plenty of honest territory to cover without recycling old Trek eps... especially when Voyager was so lousy in part because that's half of everything they did anyway.

Is it my imagination, or can the Transporter only beam things up, not down? Several times lately, we've had eps where the transporter could have beamed vital equipment into situations where characters couldn't be beamed up (like a thermal tent for Trip!!! :D) but the crew just sat on their hands and waited for stuff to happen on its own - and I won't accept "they haven't thought of it yet" as an answer.

Commander Charles "Trip" Tucker III could probably hold his own as the slightly unsure-of-his-command-abilities star of the show, but it's for the best that we have Captain Archer as the star instead so all the stuffiest elements don't cloud Trip's character up. Seems like T'pol has been almost invisible the past few eps though.


Basker, you're right, it was a cross between "Darmok" (TNG season 5) and "The Ascent" (DS9 season 5), as well as "Enemy Mine" and at least half a dozen other sci-fi standards.


Tycho, "Trek vs Aliens" would bore me silly, even if it were 1 episode. Phasers against aliens, transporters against aliens, and the deadliest enemy Trek has in its arsenal, technobabble against aliens. "Captain, my scans show the alien creatures are susceptible to verpium gas!" "Quick, have the doctor whip some up and put it into the ventalation system."

scruffziller
01-14-2003, 04:54 AM
They better start bringing in some more "familiar" material from the other series as to show where alot of the stuff we know came from. Elaborate on the Romulans, Ferengi, Klingons etc.
I wouldn't mind seeing them clear up the Klingon mystery once and for all in show delivered form. Show both North and South Klingons together.

Tycho
01-14-2003, 02:06 PM
With the Klingons and the forehead issue, (the lack of high-tech makeup in TOS days and then Worf's confirming they DO look different - even to the characters - in "Trials and Tribulations," I suggest this:

as the Federation forms, the best Klingon warriors are chosen to infiltrate Starfleet and are surgically altered. It is embarassing to them, because obviously they fail. Young Kang, Kor, and Koloth could be very junior Klingon ensigns in this black-ops operation, seen first as modern Klingons, and then later as human-looking ones. For their failure and 'dishonor,' they are not restored to looking Klingon when they're found out and return in disgrace to the Empire. Or they need to take extensive "Klingon hormone therapy" to reassert their natural features over a very long period of time. Or since they are young Klingons, they cannot afford to undo what their government did. Consequently, whenever Starfleet sees a human looking Klingon warrior, they know that this individual was responsible for some terrible acts of war against the Federation. Kirk can realize his prejudice by just looking at their superficial features- in effect what being racially prejudiced is all about anyway. Finally, in order to ascend to rank and power, and restore their honor and their faces, in the future Kang, Kor, and Koloth will be 3 of the Klingon's most dangerous commanders - and for 100 years or so, their uniquely "human" look will make them quite infamous in the galaxy.

How's that? Why wasn't it so simple and obvious? Didn't Rick and Brannon think of that already?

scruffziller
01-17-2003, 09:37 AM
I thought of another cool idea. Any one of the existing cast members of all the shows and movies could have some work coming to them in Enterprise. They could just simply play an ancestor. Shatner can still have a chance to reclaim his glory!!!!


Originally posted by Tycho
With the Klingons and the forehead issue, (the lack of high-tech makeup in TOS days and then Worf's confirming they DO look different - even to the characters - in "Trials and Tribulations," I suggest this:

as the Federation forms, the best Klingon warriors are chosen to infiltrate Starfleet and are surgically altered. It is embarassing to them, because obviously they fail. Young Kang, Kor, and Koloth could be very junior Klingon ensigns in this black-ops operation, seen first as modern Klingons, and then later as human-looking ones. For their failure and 'dishonor,' they are not restored to looking Klingon when they're found out and return in disgrace to the Empire. Or they need to take extensive "Klingon hormone therapy" to reassert their natural features over a very long period of time. Or since they are young Klingons, they cannot afford to undo what their government did. Consequently, whenever Starfleet sees a human looking Klingon warrior, they know that this individual was responsible for some terrible acts of war against the Federation. Kirk can realize his prejudice by just looking at their superficial features- in effect what being racially prejudiced is all about anyway. Finally, in order to ascend to rank and power, and restore their honor and their faces, in the future Kang, Kor, and Koloth will be 3 of the Klingon's most dangerous commanders - and for 100 years or so, their uniquely "human" look will make them quite infamous in the galaxy.

How's that? Why wasn't it so simple and obvious? Didn't Rick and Brannon think of that already?

That is a much better explanation.

Tycho
01-17-2003, 10:58 AM
I'll add one more thing to that, with the Suliban taking orders from the future and receiving genetic alterations as payment, it would be easy for the Klingons to be brought into this conspiracy to collapse the Ferderation as well.

I think the future villains that give Sillik his genetic technology are either Romulans, or how about Vorta, working for the Dominion.

The Dominion are masters of genetic technology having cloned the Vortas and engineered the Jem Hadar - they lost the War so they could be trying this in its place. I suppose they could just send an army of Jem Hadar back through time, but perhaps their subtlety is because either they can't, or they don't want to risk Starfleet and the Klingons sending a bunch of their ships back in time to have the Dominion Wars all over again in the past. Anyway, some Vortas were creepy with a deep voice like our future friend, and not slick and over-friendly like Weyoun.

The other thing is the Romulans would be typical architects of this sort of thing - it has their covert, secretive nature written all over it - and the future guy talks with the military stoicness of a Romulan Commander. However, following the Dominion Wars and "Nemesis," the Romulans should see some advantages to being Federation allies. If their more conservative elements are pushing for this eradication of the Federation in the past, they are even less redeemable than I thought they could be and Riker and the USS Titan ought to go in blasting when they get to Romulus!

I actually like the idea of the Dominion playing a part in this more than the Romulans, because they really had lost big time and could be out for revenge. Besides they are led by non-solids, who have nothing in common with Romulans, who actually are related to key Federation members. And the Dominion can be subtle when they have to be. Other than paranoia, I don't see what the Romulans have to lose - on the other hand, Galactic Domination is all they have to gain for the Empire if they win. But are there enough Romulan Soldiers and Reman Slaves to enforce that without ANY allies? Aside from its political severity, Romulus is a paradise (built on slave labor) but it hardly suffers from over-population in so much as I can tell.

Tycho
02-06-2003, 03:04 AM
Tonight's episode was awesome! They really put together an awesome show that dealt with so many topics:

the clearest thing was that the show focused on AIDS and discrimination against homosexuals.

in metaphor of course. but that is what prompted the episode and the idea about looking at something by stepping away from the issue and making policy decisions based on a similar situation.

The episode also focused on rape victims and coming forward, and prejudice against the disease ONLY when it was contracted by those not living taboo lifestyles.

Finally, stadards of fidelity in relationships and marriages were tested, as we all might of thought Trip should just go for it with Phlox's wife at some points, but I also respected his uncomfortableness with the casual way Phlox and his wife treated the institution of marriage. I recognize that it stems from the possesiveness we feel towards our girlfriends, and not wanting to share them with others. We think that if we do that, someone might do that to us one day.

Yet homosexuality is condemned because we discriminate against an act that isn't perpetuating that sex is an act between a coupled man and woman, like we frown upon prostitution, etc., because it destabalizes traditional families, but, we are willing watchers who would condone adultery! Trip as our hero, personifies us, and those of us saying, hey, if Phlox doesn't mind, then do it - would mind if Phlox got with our wives or girlfriends. So even if we have a clear sense of our own sexuality, like I know I am hetero, we can still have strong bigoted points of view due to double-standards, and our morality serves us only when it's convenient for us.

Overall this was a brilliant episode!

Next week with the Andorian-Vulcan War looks like it will be awesome, too!

Kudos to Enterprise! Did you catch it, or did you spend your latest Star Trek time complaining about it and miss a truly good episode that nulifies the sins of the show, if for only one outing?

If you're a Trek fan, I highly recommend you watch this brilliant social-commentary written into an awesome episode for Archer, Phlox, T'Pol, and Trip! (and Vulcan fans will dig it).

You can catch it again when they repeat it on Sunday. Set your VCRs- you won't regret it!

mrmiller
02-07-2003, 09:13 AM
I liked last weeks episode. It reminded me of a show that might have been in TOS. And it looks like they are going to make up for the lack of action in next weeks ep.

=MATT=

JediTricks
02-07-2003, 06:01 PM
This week's ep had a strong message but delivered it really heavy-handed which ultimately detracted from the story. I felt they gave too much emotional writing to Vulcan characters without building a solid foundation, and T'pol seems to be an anti-pragmatist now which is kinda frustrating. This ep was fairly good but ultimately reminded me of the TOS season 3 episode "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" with Frank Gorshin - too much message and preaching, not enough sci-fi subtlty.

scruffziller
02-17-2003, 08:58 AM
I like the Andorians. This show is making Archer to play a very significant role in Starfleet's history just like Kirk. That leader Andorian, didn't he also play in DS9?

JediTricks
02-17-2003, 08:41 PM
Yes, Jeffrey Combs had a semi-regular role in DS9 and Weyoun (the Founder's lap-dog) and also a returning role as the Ferengi Brunt, FCA.

I agree, the Andorians are really shaping up to be an interesting race this time around, rather than just a race of blue-skinned aliens with antennae from TOS.

scruffziller
02-18-2003, 11:51 AM
Does it ever say what has happened to the Andorians after TOS?
I don't recall them ever being in anything after TOS.

JediTricks
02-18-2003, 07:43 PM
They fell off the map, they were in the background in 1 Trek film and that's about it.

JediTricks
02-21-2003, 01:29 AM
Holy crap! Yesterday's ep was an awesome show, albeit quite thin in the actual plot department. I thought it was gonna be another POS Suliban-themed episode (I'm already sick of this race that we learn nothing of and know they'll be extinct soon anyway) but the second the Tholian ships showed up on screen, I yelped with joy. They kicked Suliban booty and then came back for the NX-01, and they didn't even have to use the web!!! This was probably the most dynamic and enjoyable Trek TV space battle since Wolf 359, I especially loved how the cinematic style shifted from big shots of the NX-01 to these less intimate, more frenetic images of the Ent being small and trying mainly to get out of the way of the real battle. And when the Ent tried and failed to go to warp, I thought that looked great. The only thing I didn't get sold on was the damaged Vulcan ship, the angle of the shot and the small size of the broken bits looked more like Suliban cell-ships on top of Admiral Ackbar's Home 1. :D

I hope this will be the kind of tempo shift that TNG's season 3 cliffhanger had on the show and the fanbase. All in all, I want more!!!

Tycho
02-21-2003, 10:05 PM
Dang it! Finally one somebody raves was really awesome - Tholians and all, and I had to miss it. I was so busy with work, I didn't have time to get a new tape, and then had to rush home and get ready to go out that night.

Aaaagh! I'll catch it (or tape it) on Sunday night.

Glad you liked it JediTricks.

JediTricks
02-21-2003, 10:49 PM
Oh, in that case, it sucked Tycho, don't bother. :D ;) j/k. :p

scruffziller
02-22-2003, 09:06 AM
Originally posted by Tycho
Dang it! Finally one somebody raves was really awesome - Tholians and all, and I had to miss it. I was so busy with work, I didn't have time to get a new tape, and then had to rush home and get ready to go out that night.

Aaaagh! I'll catch it (or tape it) on Sunday night.

Glad you liked it JediTricks.

You need TIVO.

scruffziller
02-25-2003, 02:04 PM
Man that was a great ep. I wish they bring out more like that.
Next week's is another "we get held prisoner by aliens ep.":frus:

vulcantouch
02-25-2003, 02:10 PM
the last few ("stigma", "cease fire" and "future tense" ) have been hellafun, even tho i doubt tomorrow's "canamar" (wasn't that a van halen song? :rolleyes: ) will continue the trend, it looks to be a cheesy retread of voy's "chute" :p but what was with tpol's sweaty agitation during "future tense"? was it from the notion that humans & vulcans would interbreed in the future? felt like the explanation was cut for time :rolleyes:
way to tease tholian's in-person debut, almost stormin the nx01's tantive airlock :cool:
vt

JediTricks
02-26-2003, 06:48 PM
Yeah, Canamar really does look like a poo-gas retread episode (for those who don't know, according to Ricardo Montalban, "nobody likes poo-gas"), I couldn't believe how much hype they gave it in the preview like it was some event or something. To be honest, I thought Enterprise was the show that was trying to get away from these annoying neo-Trek stereotypes, but it seems like it strives to do just the opposite sometimes. Who knows, maybe it'll have a shocking twist like it won't suck or something.

VT, I too thought that was odd the way they had T'pol bristle at the concept so, but she seems to waffle with stuff like this when the writers can't figure out how to write an emotionless character I think. Still, this is the same Vulcan who told her human captain and chief engineer about Vulcans living in Earth's past.


BTW, Tycho did you miss Ent again on Sunday?!?

scruffziller
02-27-2003, 09:17 AM
Yea it seems like T'Pol is still gulfing anger emotions anytime she is being Vulcan-like. It gets annoying.:frus:

Anakin2121
02-27-2003, 06:09 PM
Who watched the Canamar episode? I rather liked it, and was really suprised by the revolt. At first I thought they were going to release Archer and Trip at twenty minutes or so into it, and then that guy Konoro or whatever got loose and knocked out the guards....I thought to myself, "I didn't see that one coming!" :)

But that's just me. :p

Tycho
02-28-2003, 01:48 AM
OK, I'm 2 episodes behind in my comments...

The one with the Tholians and Sulibaan was awesome. I did catch it Sunday. I would have loved them to explore how a ship was bigger on the inside than it was on the outside! That was awesome!

I also wonder if a strange alien ship, sealed from the outside was brought aboard, why open it and stick your head inside? Didn't these guys see "Aliens???" They ought to screen that one night for Trip's Tuesday movie parties....


The show was great though, and kept it lively and full of surprises. I think a lot of questions have to be answered about that episode though.


Last nights: Con Air, Passenger 57, Deep Space Nine Orion Syndicate episodes, Voyager's The Chute, Resistance, etc. It was good even if it's been done before - but it was more like the movies I mentioned, than past Trek episodes.

It was still enjoyable, but not as much as the past couple of shows just prior to it (Cease Fire, and Future Tense).

JediTricks
02-28-2003, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by Anakin2121
Who watched the Canamar episode? I rather liked it, and was really suprised by the revolt. At first I thought they were going to release Archer and Trip at twenty minutes or so into it, and then that guy Konoro or whatever got loose and knocked out the guards....I thought to myself, "I didn't see that one coming!" :)

But that's just me. :p To be honest, I totally saw that coming. This wasn't the ep I expected, but it felt very much like something you'd see on TNG or even Voyager. If Archer hadn't tried to go back for the bad guy, that at least would have had some cool factor but no. Canamar was a fairly pedestrian ep to me, nothing felt fresh or exciting - it was just Archer and Trip stuck in coach.

scruffziller
03-03-2003, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by JediTricks
To be honest, I totally saw that coming. This wasn't the ep I expected, but it felt very much like something you'd see on TNG or even Voyager. If Archer hadn't tried to go back for the bad guy, that at least would have had some cool factor but no. Canamar was a fairly pedestrian ep to me, nothing felt fresh or exciting - it was just Archer and Trip stuck in coach.

Yea I agree. Even though it was somewhat different than the cookie cutter episodes we have been seeing.

JediTricks
04-03-2003, 11:10 PM
Well, a month later and we FINALLY have a new episode. I found it to be ok, but definitely not great, and the "big surprise" was no surprise at all which was a major disappointment. Some of this could have had a TOS feel, but instead they went for the TNG route and it ended up being a let-down for me.

scruffziller
04-04-2003, 10:41 AM
Cool finally!!!

scruffziller
04-07-2003, 10:01 AM
At first it seemed like another clone of other ST eps we have seen and as I watched it not much changed, enough to make you not think of the predecessor eps but could have been done without.

Tycho
04-10-2003, 02:51 AM
First, I am very lucky to be home and able to post online tonight, having also watched the show. Time is not what it used to be.

I liked tonight's "Judgement" episode very much! I like how they always make the Klingons seem a bit threatening, and awfully scary, yet so respectable.

This was a complete nod to Star Trek 6: The Undiscovered Country, but since that is one of my favorite Trek movies, it was alright by me.

I think that if you were to watch all the Trek in chronological order, it might cheapen Star Trek 6, since Kirk's ordeal no longer "comes first" but it does illuminate perhaps how Uhura and Chekov, and everyone else on the 1701-A were so well versed on Ruhepente and the Klingon Justice System.

Notice Duras? (Son of Terrel) obviously an ancestor, (Grandfather?) of Worf's enemy from Next Generation.

H.G. Hertzger (spelling) the actor that brought General Martok to life, did another excellent job! (That guy is just a good actor!)

They also referred to Koloth in the justice system proceedures. Probably not Kirk's enemy Koloth, but his ancestor.

It seems that Klingons name their sons after their fathers - seeing as how Worf's grandpa was called Colonel Worf.

I also liked hearing of a Klingon golden age, and about members of their society who once were honorable as teachers, and scientists, and we're seeing how population growth and resources depletion turned them into the militant society we always knew since Kirk's era, as well as we're learning how "honor" and "victory" were perverted to becoming little more than what you could compare to a Hirogen juvenile's trophy hunting. It makes me think that Klingon's like Chancellor Gorkin, as well as Mogh (Worf's father) were taught by their fathers a deep sense of respect for Klingon tradition that was born out of an era long before even Archer's days. It was really interesting, just sad actually, to know that a great people would eventually fall to the level we saw them in when Praxis exploded (Star Trek 6) and be represented by politicians like K'mpech and Gowron (though he was honorable many a time - and really more a victim of Klingon politics during the Dominion War, than anything else. I liked a lot of things about Gowron). Martok is by far the best choice for a Chancellor since Gorkin.

While they copied Star Trek 6 a lot, it was cool that I got all this out of it.

scruffziller
04-10-2003, 11:57 AM
I knew they would start bringing in actors to do ancestors.

Mandalorian Candidat
04-10-2003, 01:54 PM
I also noticed Gen. Martok pulling double duty as the advocate. He kind of looked like a Klingon version of Gandalf the White.

The ending was pretty crappy. It was vintage TNG all the way. Archer's in prison and then all of the sudden Merriweather shows up with some explanation about bribes and such. That may work in a Tijuana jail but as a TV plot it was pretty weak.

JON9000
04-10-2003, 04:29 PM
Okay- so I never watched "Enterprise" before. TNG sort of turned me off to Star Trek. I'll explain. It seemed to me that every other episode, our pals would get into trouble, and some goof ball would advise creating a "sub space warp field" or whatever around the bete noir of the episode. This would invariably get everyone out of the jam. The deus ex machina saving the day all the time just bothered me more everytime I saw it.

Does Enterprise do silly stuff like that, or is it cooler like the original series? As in Kirk kills the bad thing, or makes love to its girlfriend.

JediTricks
04-11-2003, 02:51 AM
I'm glad you liked the ep Tycho, but I felt it was waaaaaaaay too much of a ripoff of ST6. I *almost* was willing to forgive the ep of this until the actual judgment sending him to Rurapente. The only thing that I thought was really good about this ep was how they explained how the Klingon empire used to be great and was turning into that fight-'em-all society we saw in TOS which Worf finds distasteful by TNG (but he's a noble with noble ideas, so we can't expect all TNG Klingons to be so refined).


I did notice the "Duras" character's name right off, but I wasn't sure if it was meant to be another relative of that the lying, backstabbing son of a pa'tagh or just coincidence.

Col. Worf was Mogh's grandfather, making him TNG Worf's great-grandfather.


Jon, not a lot of technobabble saves, but more than TOS (TOS had a lot more than most fans think, but they dumbed down the language to make it seem more exciting and less dull). Give it a shot and I think you'll like it about 75% of the time and find it a little TNG-bland the other quarter.

Mandalorian Candidat
04-11-2003, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by JON9000
Okay- so I never watched "Enterprise" before. TNG sort of turned me off to Star Trek. I'll explain. It seemed to me that every other episode, our pals would get into trouble, and some goof ball would advise creating a "sub space warp field" or whatever around the bete noir of the episode. This would invariably get everyone out of the jam. The deus ex machina saving the day all the time just bothered me more everytime I saw it.

Does Enterprise do silly stuff like that, or is it cooler like the original series? As in Kirk kills the bad thing, or makes love to its girlfriend.

It seems to me that since Rick Berman took over control of the franchise that type of cheesy ending is the hallmark of the series. Here's the typical ST episode for me: (1) either a cheery, light-hearted or dark forboding intro to set up the story, (2) the crew's in a major dilemma with no light at the end of the tunnel, (3) the last 5 minutes of the show someone comes up with a Nobel Prize-caliber solution to the problem and the show briefly ends, usually with little or no anticlimactic wrapup.

I'm at the point where I can overlook the quickie solution as long as the plot is good up to that point. Maybe I'm just numb from watching episodes containing similar plot patters...I don't know.

smurfvader
04-20-2003, 04:02 PM
I suppose everyone has heard about the Borg episode they are doing. It seems (Berman) said that continuity has been changed since the movie First Contact so they no longer are going to follow it. Apparently in the episode they discover a Borg cube that was wrecked during First contact and it gets activated.
I'm rather disappointed that they have decided to do this. The only good thing is that the stories may actually get better now that there is nothing "holding them back". I think that part of the problem with Enterprise is that they have been trying to appease both peolple who want continuity and people who aren't ST fans and don't know the continuity.

JIm

scruffziller
04-22-2003, 06:59 AM
Wow cool!!!! I don't care, I want Borg!!!!!!!!

Horizon reminded me alot of the ST: NG ep FAMILY from season 4.

mrmiller
04-22-2003, 08:39 AM
Originally posted by smurfvader
I think that part of the problem with Enterprise is that they have been trying to appease both peolple who want continuity and people who aren't ST fans and don't know the continuity.


Or people like me who are ST fans and could care less about continuity and just want to see some good sci-fi. I just want them to get making good episodes, continuity or not. Of course I don't want things are are completly against the continuity, but I don't get bothered by the little things that many trekkies do. That is as long as the episodes are good. A bad episode with bad continuity just makes it worse. All in all I think this season has been getting better (besides last weeks Horison episode) than when it started season 2. We have had quite a few really good episodes lately, and lets hope they can keep up the good work.

=MATT=

scruffziller
04-27-2003, 05:26 PM
Cool, they had a Tribbles cameo!!!

This was a pretty good ep. I like how they showed a different side of Dr. Phlox.

Anakin2121
04-30-2003, 09:17 PM
This was a pretty good episode. It had humor and a poignant twist towards the end.

The scenes with Archer and the alien captain flying inside the star were pretty dull, though I rather enjoyed Reed talking to that female armory officer! I wished they'd showed more of the two of them. :D

And of course, they showed the preview of next week's episode, "Regeneration," which is about the Borg. I think it'll be good! I always thought the Borg were absolutely awesome. People fear this episode will ruin the continuity, since Picard was the first to encounter the Borg, thanks to Q's intervention. However, it's possible the Borg used some sort of temporal technology to try to undermine Starfleet during its younger years, I.E., this series.

Besides, in any saga/series, the more recent episodes are considered more "canon." After all, in ANH Obi-Wan said he didn't meet Anakin until the Clone Wars, while the prequels tell us otherwise. :)

dr_evazan22
05-01-2003, 12:13 AM
I was a little surprised that they showed Reed checking out the aliens rear end! I didn't think they did that sort of thing in the ST universe! Gene Roddenberry must be spinning in his grave.

The way Archer was chastising Tucker, I thought he was going to be demoted or dropped off back at Earth. The cogenitor's suicide was not unexpected- Live Free Or Die. It was erally stupid what he did. Tucker should have been trying to convince the rest of the alien group that the cogenitor also born w/ "inalienable rights".

mrmiller
05-01-2003, 10:13 AM
Most of the episodes that are "character builders" or just depend on character interaction with no real action sequences or the crew in jepordy- normally don't interest me much. They tend to get a little to soap-opera like. But this episode was pretty good. had a couple of nice twists at the end, and did give you something to look forward to in other episodes- the Trip/Archer tension. I was pleasently suprised. Now for next weeks ep- it will either be great, or a horrible knock-off peice of crap. Either way, I'm looking forward to it.

=MATT=

JediTricks
05-01-2003, 07:53 PM
I really disliked this ep because it telegraphed what was to come from the instant we met the cogenitor, and felt like it was selling Trip's character out for the basis of a "strong ending" - or is this his new character and we've "built down"? The end sequence with Trip and Archer was pretty intense, and I liked the alien captain a lot (he played a Romulan on TNG and was one of the stars of Babylon 5), but it seemed like Reed was giving away some pretty sensitive information to a group that nobody had ever met before - not very tactical officer-like to me.


Next week's Borg ep will almost certainly leave me unhappy, I'm a stickler for canon and consistant Borg stories, between Voyager and now this encounter (remember how close NX-01 is to Earth in comparison to the Ent-D's routine travels) I'm really becoming angry towards Berman and his overuse of the Borg.

scruffziller
05-04-2003, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by JediTricks

Next week's Borg ep will almost certainly leave me unhappy, I'm a stickler for canon and consistant Borg stories, between Voyager and now this encounter (remember how close NX-01 is to Earth in comparison to the Ent-D's routine travels) I'm really becoming angry towards Berman and his overuse of the Borg.

Yea, for everything out there someone doesn't like there is another one that does and I am one of them. I CAN'T FRIGGIN' WAIT!!!!!!! :D SOrry to burst your bubble JT but I have just been so disappointed with how they have been hangling this series. For me this was going to be the driving force of revelations of things in the the PT does for SW and now they are finally starting to bring that up to speed. There have been a few good eps and moments but it just has become frustrating.

As for Cogenitor, really liked for being a non correlator ep. Well produced and very emotional. As with alot these prequel stories, this is a classic example of showing things in their infancy and the stumbling we see in the effort of what is developing the Federation.

scruffziller
05-05-2003, 02:39 PM
I believe there will be something that is going to make it like it never happened and is forgotten by all, somewhat like the did in TNG in the ep CLUES. With all the temporal bending going on I am sure that would not be a problem. I don't think the writers would have done this ep if they know they couldn't get away with it because it would really screw things up if they weren't careful. I think we can relax and enjoy this ep!!
I LOVE THE BORG!!!!!

smurfvader
05-08-2003, 07:23 PM
I didn't care for the episode mainly because they are still riding the fence on wether or not they want to keep continuity. When I first heard about this episode it was stated that Enterprise takes place in a now divergent timeline of all previous Treks do to the movie First Contact. Yet at the end the still didn't know the Borgs name (like the lame Ferengi episode) and T'pol said something about how they (the Borg) wouldn't arive until the 24th Century. Thereby sort of keeping continuity (like the lame Ferengi episode). I wish they would just either keep continuity or don't, I'm sick of this crap.
I've also heard that they are droping the temporal cold war storyline (for now) and the season finaly will deal with them being in an area of unexplored space far away from Earth. I think this was hinted at at the end of this episode.

JIm

JediTricks
05-08-2003, 08:59 PM
Bah! Dr Phlox "curing" himself of the Borg nanobots was total crap on a cracker! And why would a polar-expedition team need a trans-atmospheric craft, much less a warp-capable one? And the convenience of the Borg transmission to Enterprise cutting in after they would have said "We are the Borg...", or when the Borg on Enterprise put up their personal shields after 1 shot, but aboard the polar expedition's shuttle they take like 7 hits before they put up shields, or Cochrane making comments about the events of ST:First Contact in a public speech (I would have bought it if it was to a reporter while he was drunk in a bar, but not this), or how these damn Borg survived atmospheric entry after the sphere was vaporized, or how the Borg would be coming to the Alpha quadrant thanks to these events rather than the TNG events, or how the Borg infection was so slow in humans but so fast in Enterprise's systems.

As a stand-alone episode, it was ok, some good action but a few major plot-holes. But as a Trek ep, it didn't hold up well at all IMO.

vulcantouch
05-09-2003, 12:24 AM
brent spiner on charlie rose 2nite :)
fun discussion goin last here last few eps, maybe by the time i get around to puttin in my 2&cent yall Won't be completely uninterested :crazed:

scruffziller
05-09-2003, 09:37 AM
Originally posted by JediTricks
And the convenience of the Borg transmission to Enterprise cutting in after they would have said "We are the Borg."

AHHHHH............The elemental quirky predictability of prequel stories.

mrmiller
05-12-2003, 08:56 AM
I had no problems with this episode- it was good, not great and not bad. I didn't notice half the things JT did (but lets be honest JT, this episode didn't have a chance with you before it even aired). Dr Phlox "curing" himself of the Borg nanobots may have been possible because the nanobots were having a hard time with his immune system and physiology- so that might have helped make it possible. I think it did set itself up as taking place in a different timeline since First Contact, but that leaves me afraid of what they'll try next.

=MATT=

dr_evazan22
05-12-2003, 11:04 AM
I like Enterprise, but didn't watch Voyager or DS9, and still haven't seen all the movies (including First Contact). The reason I point that out first is that I didn't know the Borg can come back from the dead... That is, when the came back after being frozen. Their oragnics should have frozen beyond "repair".

If the organics could be repaired from freezing, why can't they come back after being shot w/ a phaser? (Or can they and I just didn't know it?)

scruffziller
05-12-2003, 11:35 AM
I thought the ep was believable and it ended with believable elements. Don't forget that Phlox's people had experimented with nanotechnology so it isn't like he didn't have a lead on what to do too. But I think the whole "new continuity" thing has to be accepted with them doing FIRST CONTACT. It is the reality of the situation. I wonder if the producers did FIRST CONTACT so they would be able to make stuff like this. With sci-fi, you almost have to do time travel it keeps things intersesting the way it should be.

vulcantouch
05-12-2003, 02:08 PM
"horizon": seems like sisko's the only non-alien regular played by a black guy that pomo trek managed to Not make bland. whatsamattah, is the only way trek's white writers could think of to imbue travis' mostly-dull character with some "color" is take him Off the ship & stick him on kasidy yates' freighter xhosa? ;) :p

"crossing": undeniably derivative but dug it; as with "dead stop", some surprisingly strong "alien/otherness" flavors which are all-too-rare for trek after 500+ eps :)

"cogenitor": did the emphasis of the rarity of congenitors (hence the real need for their society to narrow-focus their lives on reproduction) get a little too lost, or was that point made clear enough for everyone?

"judgment": enjoyed fine, but was kinda hoping this would somehow align Ent closer to the canon's "disastrous 1st contact w/klingons led to decades of war" :(

jt: "was waaaaaaaay too much of a ripoff of ST6"
-nah, the word you mean is "homage" ;)

"was selling Trip's character out for the basis of a 'strong ending' "
-my interp's different- see below:

mrm: "did give you something to look forward to in other episodes- the Trip/Archer tension"
-to me, archer's over-the-top dressdown of trip felt like a set-up, telegraphing a future ep about aftereffects of the suicide on that society. archer's quik friendship w/katsulas indicates same to me.

jt: "she seems to waffle with stuff like this when the writers can't figure out how to write an emotionless character"
-well i saw actress blalock on kilby sportin Cornrows, so i can only Hope it was the writers, and that her Louzy fashion taste doesn't indicate waffly flaky judgment calls on Her part :p not that i care bout convention guests but she sez she Still ain't been one, another bad sign imo :p

sv: "Berman said that continuity has been changed since the movie First Contact so they no longer are going to follow it"
-he did? what a COP-OUT :p

mrm: "people like me who are ST fans and could care less about continuity"
-to me being a trek fan Is caring about continuity; "there is no art without limits", and working deftly within or around the limits imposed by established trek canon seem to me not unreasonable and indeed perfectly appropriate constraints for Trek to operate under. without such limits to chafe against, pomo trek becomes undisciplined, indulgent, less coherent, less compelling.
the only exception that comes to mind is the Eugenic War datings, but even those can be explained by assuming kirk simply mispoke that they happened in 1990s. instead we can more credibly surmise they happened in the 2090s, which is kinda supported by admiral sterling hayden (http://www.leisuresuit.net/Webzine/articles/sterling_hayden.shtml) (that's who he reminded Me of ;) ) saying they happened "200 years ago" in ds9's "dr. bashir I presume" ep :happy:

de22: "a little surprised that they showed Reed checking out the aliens rear end. . . Roddenberry must be spinning in his grave"
-not likely; horndog GR always wanted to sex up trek more- just so long as it was Hetero sexin up as per his personal taste, despite all the lip-service he paid to the contrary over the years :rolleyes: besides, they already established reed's a Buttman (his t'pol waxings in "shuttlepod one" ep); talk about continuity ;)

scruffyz: "I believe there will be something that is going to make it like it never happened and is forgotten by all"
-oh if only; alas, the threat posed in this ep makes it highly uncredible that this encounter would be forgotten by the tng era to the point that every cadet wouldn't be briefed on it, thus blunting the tng crew's Shock Of The New in "q-who" :p

de22: "Their organics should have frozen beyond 'repair'"
-see Voy ep "unity" :)

jt: "why would a polar-expedition team need a trans-atmospheric craft, much less a warp-capable one?"
-yeah, that confused me so much for a while i thought the wreck was on some Other planet, not our own arctic :p
for bein such an omnipotent race that ain't in the habit of leavin its organitech lyin round, borg sure do leave a lotta shipwrecks around for feds to pick thru eh ("i borg", several Voy eps etc.) :p and they got personal anti-energy-weapon shield generators but can be shorted out with a simple plug-pull? :rolleyes:
and what's with that attic-ladder alcove in sickbay all the badguys use to excape? trip should drywall over that ;)

jt: "the convenience of the Borg transmission to Enterprise cutting in after they would have said 'We are the Borg...'"
sv: "they still didn't know the Borgs name (like the lame Ferengi episode)"
-in the latter, such a convenient canon-evading device is not only appropriate & credible, it's kinda witty; in the former it's neither :p
jt: yeah really, even if the bridgecrew didn't hear the whole tranny, wouldn't it all be retained in comm active memory records??

"T'pol said something about how they (the Borg) wouldn't arive until the 24th Century"
-yeah, what's that crap? a subspace mssg's gonna take 200 years to reach borg space? i thought subspace trannys are Faster than max warp, and as we know from Voy, max warp'd take only 70 years to Return from borg space; so??
or did these borg hafta use a special kind of Slower subspace tranny? :sur:

tych: "ship was bigger on the inside than it was on the outside! That was awesome"
-not to mention a cool metaphor for watchin trek, tv in general and the mind itself :)

a21: "Obi-Wan said he didn't meet Anakin until the Clone Wars"
-he did? where when?
vt

Anakin2121
05-12-2003, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by vulcantouch

a21: "Obi-Wan said he didn't meet Anakin until the Clone Wars"
-he did? where when?
vt

Yes, he said something to that effect, when Luke first gets his lightsaber in ANH. :)

scruffziller
05-12-2003, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by vulcantouch
\
scruffyz: "I believe there will be something that is going to make it like it never happened and is forgotten by all"
-oh if only; alas, the threat posed in this ep makes it highly uncredible that this encounter would be forgotten by the tng era to the point that every cadet wouldn't be briefed on it, thus blunting the tng crew's Shock Of The New in "q-who" :p


Yea I was wrong but I think this is something that was a brief isolated incident, not much info was gathered, and even though the info is stored away, it is something that is really going to take a precedence in Starfleet history to where it will change the continuity too much.

One last adding to the comment of the show, I really like the twist of the "infected" aliens that don't have circuitry just yet running around.

JediTricks
05-12-2003, 09:42 PM
Originally posted by mrmiller
but lets be honest JT, this episode didn't have a chance with you before it even aired Even though I was fairly confident that this ep was going to not work for me, I still tried to go in with a fresh mind about it, maybe 20 to 30%.



Originally posted by dr_evazan22
I like Enterprise, but didn't watch Voyager or DS9, and still haven't seen all the movies (including First Contact). The reason I point that out first is that I didn't know the Borg can come back from the dead... That is, when the came back after being frozen. Their oragnics should have frozen beyond "repair".

If the organics could be repaired from freezing, why can't they come back after being shot w/ a phaser? (Or can they and I just didn't know it?) They can't, just as when Picard shot them in First Contact with phasers they stayed down just as when he shot them with holographic bullets, or when the Borg at the end of that film had their organics liquified, the non-technological elements couldn't survive without them. An excellent point evazan that I had not considered, these Borg weren't flash-frozen, their organic materials should have burned up in re-entry when they first got there or have been destroyed by standard freezing (where ice crystals grow in the organic tissue slowly so they are large and jagged thus destroying neighboring cells) over a short period of time or not have frozen at all.



Originally posted by scruffziller
I thought the ep was believable and it ended with believable elements. Don't forget that Phlox's people had experimented with nanotechnology so it isn't like he didn't have a lead on what to do too. I totally didn't buy this or the "immune system" reasoning I'm afraid, in TNG and beyond, the Starfleet crew have dealt with nanotech AND radiation quite a lot yet couldn't defeat the Borg this way. Picard could only have his body wiped of Borg technology once those systems' link to the collective was totally severed and then were instructed to shut down.


Originally posted by vulcantouch
"cogenitor": did the emphasis of the rarity of congenitors (hence the real need for their society to narrow-focus their lives on same) get a little too lost, or was that point made clear enough for everyone? Totally lost by the time it became apparent that things were going to get bad for the main characters in the ep. In fact, I totally forgot this was even an issue in that ep.


seems like sisko's the only non-alien regular played by a black guy that pomo trek managed to Not make bland.Black, white, green, purple, translucent, black on one side and white on the other, Travis Mayweather is the most dull member of the Ent's command crew BAR NONE.


"judgment": enjoyed fine, but was kinda hoping this would somehow align Ent closer to the canon's "disastrous 1st contact w/klingons led to decades of war" :(

jt: "was waaaaaaaay too much of a ripoff of ST6"
-nah, the word you mean is "homage" ;)Except for the "enjoyed fine", I agree with that first part. However, I definitely do not mean that this ep was an "homage", unless you mean it like how Milli-Vanilli's work was an "homage" to those guys who were actually singing or how my 9th-grade oral report on Nixon was an "homage" directly to his encylopedia listing. :p


jt: "was selling Trip's character out for the basis of a 'strong ending' "
-my interp's different- see below:

mrm: "did give you something to look forward to in other episodes- the Trip/Archer tension"
-to me, archer's over-the-top dressdown of trip felt like a set-up, telegraphing a future ep about aftereffects of the suicide on that society.HA! That's almost as unlikely as my theory that at the end of this show's run, Archer and the crew of the NX-01 will erase the past of their deeds to save the future. If Trip's out-of-character actions in "Cogenitor" have repercussions that go beyond that singular ep, I will be jaw-droppingly astonished.



Originally posted by Anakin2121
Yes, he said something to that effect, when Luke first gets his lightsaber in ANH. :) Actually, what Obi-Wan said was that he knew his father, faught along side him in the clone wars, and was a Jedi the same as him. In ROTJ, he said that when he first met Anakin, he was already a great pilot, and was amazed at how freely the Force flowed through him... and yes, you can call me "one of those guys". ;)

Tycho
05-14-2003, 03:55 AM
I really liked the Borg episode. They kept it scary. People here made valid points. I especially wondered why they were having trouble fighting them on Enterprise, while on the Borg's own ship they had not yet adapted to Archer and Reed's firing.

But it was done outright well and directed pretty scary. The beginning was great - especially considering that none of the actual show's cast was involved.

Today (in like 20 hours from now) They are going to do the show where T'Pol goes looking for a mate. Any bets on who it is going to be?

I doubt Phlox because they showed them getting close in the previews. While Reed and Tucker remain candidates, Archer is still a unique possibility. Remember, she respects him. But when she gets all catty, who knows? Malcolm wants her and the tension between her and Trip might get a very rewarding release - only to come back as more tension when she'll undoubtedly refuse any future advances Trip might make on her. However, because protocals aren't yet established, they might finally take the chance on a Captain / First Officer relationship because they bowed out on Chakotay and Kathryn Janeway when the audience actually would have wanted that, and with one of them being Maquis furnishing them with an excuse. (I really never got comfortable with the Chakotay - Seven relationship - she didn't seem his type, nor did he even really like her. Additionally, she didn't respect his religion originally).

scruffziller
05-14-2003, 11:45 AM
Originally posted by scruffziller
Yea I was wrong but I think this is something that was a brief isolated incident, not much info was gathered, and even though the info is stored away, it is something that is really going to take a precedence in Starfleet history to where it will change the continuity too much.


I meant to say,

"it is something that ISN'T really going to take a precedence in Starfleet history to where it will change the continuity too much."

dr_evazan22
05-14-2003, 04:19 PM
I'm all ready for tonights ep w/ T'pol in her ribbed tank top and underwear outfit. The show where they had to rub that cream all over themselves was great!

Tycho
05-15-2003, 10:03 AM
Tonight's double-episodes were good, but forgettable.

I was entertained, but not impressed.

The history of the warp 2 flight was cool.

I think it's also a good story to show that the Klingons are incensed with Archer and they put a price on his head. If anything, us Star Wars fans can appreciate the dangers of bounty hunters.

The T'Pol storyline seemed forced and a bit strange, while missing some details, such as why T'Pol, at whatever age she is, was never mated or married before. She probably was, as by 14, they probably need a mate, but in this episode, nothing was revealed that was remotely interesting about her past.

The bounty hunter story was a better plotline, as was the introduction of the Tellerites.

And now, Archer has more Klingon blood on his hands. They've definitely upped the scales. I wonder if Silik and his future-war will try and exploit that?

Anyone think the Borg will be back on Enterprise btw?

scruffziller
05-15-2003, 10:07 AM
Originally posted by Tycho
[B
Anyone think the Borg will be back on Enterprise btw? [/B]

YEP!!!:D

smurfvader
05-15-2003, 05:16 PM
I don't know about you, but if I were Phlox I would have taken one for the team. :crazed: After all T'Pol said it was unethical to have the cure and hold back treatment.
The First flight episode was kind of boring. They needed a better actor for AJ. I thought that the Enterprise was a warp 5 ship? If so they didn't waste much time going from 2 to 5 warp.
I've heard more about next season.
Spoiler Warnings about Season finale and Season 3
Okay an Alien race (the Xindi) sends some sort of probe that obliterates part of Earth. Trip's sister gets killed in the attack and his home town gets desroyed. Archer goes after the Xindi in an area of space called the Delphic Expanse and is akin to the Bermuda Triangle. Also T'Pol will get a new outfit and new hairstyle next season. They also said that they will be going in a new direction with season three.
Well that settles it Enterprise (the show) is done for. Anytime you hear the phrase "going in a new drection' usually seals the fate of a show. And with T'pol getting a new catsuit and haircut only makes me think more that they are trying to make her more like 7 of 9 which is another bad decision.

JIm

Mandalorian Candidat
05-16-2003, 12:08 PM
I totally hated the T'Pol: Me So Horny plot line. What a rotten way to market the show. I haven't seen the ratings for Enterprise, but just how they played up that lesser plotline makes me think they're in the pits. Call me a prude, but sex really doesn't play well in ST. When it does appear you can bet the writers are desperate for material (remember Voyager when Kes left and 7/9 showed up in her DD latex glory?)

Heck, from the previews it seemed like that was the whole show! I only found out about the bounty hunter angle from my Dish info screen, otherwise I would have watched something else.

Anyways I hope the finale will be good. They usually are.

scruffziller
05-16-2003, 01:28 PM
I have to admit that watching the show has been difficult lately. I just hope the different direction means a better one.

mrmiller
05-16-2003, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by Mandalorian Candidat
I totally hated the T'Pol: Me So Horny plot line. What a rotten way to market the show. I haven't seen the ratings for Enterprise, but just how they played up that lesser plotline makes me think they're in the pits. Call me a prude, but sex really doesn't play well in ST. When it does appear you can bet the writers are desperate for material (remember Voyager when Kes left and 7/9 showed up in her DD latex glory?)


I didn't really thing the T'Pol polt line was that bad. I didn't get that feeling that is was trying to be that 'sexy" but moreover add some comedy to the show with a touch of "sexy". I really enjoyed the Bounty Hunter plot line, as it kinda sets up lots of possibilities for Archer, Enterprise, and Startfleet vs. the Klingons and other bounty hunters. It sets a nice underlying tone to the series.

=MATT=

Tycho
05-16-2003, 05:54 PM
Well I love sex in everything. Adding violence does wonders too.

But my base tastes were not appeased by this episode, and yeah, I guess they intended it just to be funny and not too sexy.

Romantic or sultry-slutty that turns sexy are two ways to go to get a show sexier. Passion, with action against desperation also add to that - like the sex in the first Terminator movie.

This played like a build up from "The Breakfast Club" - provided that the nerd got a piece of anything (which didn't happen anyway).

In any case, using sex to improve ratings or interest is not a cheap shot, but can be a legitimate art for which I appreciate it.

This didn't accomplish that.

JediTricks
05-17-2003, 02:02 AM
Why was the warp 2 ship supposed to have a goal of warp 3?


This new direction for the show sounds like crap to me, very Voyager-style. Berman strikes again! I think T'pol's outfit and hairstyle kinda sucks anyway, so change is good - look at how nice Kirstie Alley looked as Saavik in ST2 - no bowl haircut and no ugly catsuit with a horrid pattern.


MC, I agree totally about the T'pol in heat plotline from the 2nd ep on wed, it was even more sad attempts to sell the show with sex (this is like the 4th time it's been this blatant). But at least Jolene Blalock got to act AND this time she did ok. Oh, and using Pon Farr as the reasoning was totally stupid, Pon Farr (the burning of the Vulcan blood) occurs in MALES - why couldn't they have made up a similar thing with a similar name to explain her problem? Because they're LAZY and use TOS as a crutch.

Tycho
05-17-2003, 04:11 AM
There's a lot I like about Enterprise, but I agree with the statements above.

mrmiller
05-22-2003, 01:05 PM
The Enterprise season final was pretty cool last night. I'm glad it didn't really end on a cliffhanger. I just knew when the Klingons showed back up, they would seriously damage the ship and then we would get a "to be continued..." I think next season will be great with a lot of new possibilities. Didn't that video of the Vulcan ship remind you of the movie Event Horizon? Anyhow, next season should be interesting- I can't wait.

=MATT=

Tycho
05-22-2003, 02:51 PM
I think I saw a show called Voyager that was just like this, and they were going into the Necrid Expanse.

Oh nevermind. It was nicely done.

So who is Duras? Is he the Duras, or an ancestor of Worf's old enemy (that killed K'Ehleyr)?

If so, Duras' family has had problems with their honor for centuries - no wonder they've learned to act without considering it.

That part makes sense to me.

Meanwhile, I hope it is not the Duras from Worf's time, but rather an ancestor. You know how Klingons revere their forebears and Worf was named after Col. Worf, his paternal grandfather. Had he not been raised by humans, perhaps Alexander would have been named Mogh?

In any case, this show is making Johnathon Archer look ten times more important than James T. Kirk, and that does bug me.

If Archer comes out of this temperal cold war and a full-scale war with the Klingons under the first flag of the United Federation of Planets, it will make Kirk look all he did was create a captain's guide to sex across the galaxy.

It bugs me, but I have to list Captain Kirk's accomplishments:

1) a failed mission to penetrate outside the galaxy - not the first attempt, but the most advanced mission ever assigned - which resulted in the loss of Kirk's first officer and another specialist team member in a terrible tragedy.
2) a lot of first contacts - most importantly - a face-to-face personal confrontation with the Romulans who had developed a cloaking device as a super-weapon to expand their empire.
3) fought for the Federation under formal and informal declarations of war against the Klingons, exposing Klingon agents who were surgically altered to infiltrate the Federation.
4) captured a Romulan cloaking device, but only in time to analyze it for Federation detection, but too late to stop the Romulans from trading the technology to the Klingons for warp drive advancements, hoping to manipulate Kronos, while allowing their fear of the Federation alliances to promote their mobilizing for war against Starfleet.
5) Kirk saved earth from a few close calls from other hostiles as well, such as Nomad, etc.

in the movies:

1) saved earth from V'GER.
2) Stopped Khan from taking Genesis, but only at the cost of its detonation, Spock's life, and the possibility of war with the Klingons.
3) went AWOL with his ship and crew, destroying it, along with a Klingon crew from whom he stole their ship, in a dubious mission to bring back his first officer from the dead. Made the possibility of war with the Klingons even more inevitable.
4) Saved earth on his return for a courtmartial by time-traveling with humpback whales.
5) Rescued Romulan and Klingon dignitaries from a Vulcan terrorist who sought divine knowledge at the most costly prices.
6) saved the peace accords with the Klingons when sabotage threatened to stop them, when the Klingons' energy supply disaster at Praxis was motivating them to return to war agains the Federation.

I guess Kirk's work seems to be one that has to be continued, because he maintained a balance of power in the alpha-beta quadrants, while Picard and mostly Sisko finalized real alliances, against the very real threat of being entirely conquered by the Dominion.

Picard's alliances with Gowron, with Worf's rivalries, finally resulted in Martok becoming a pro-Federation Chancellor.

Sisko's pre-fabricated evidence brought the Romulans into the fold against the Dominion, while Section 31 and unknowing agent Julian Bashir's assasination of the Romulan hardliners, brought the Empire into the fold against the Dominion. Picard's assistance against a Reman revolution propped up the military's retention of control over the Romulan Empire, which may still be tenuous, if they remain in a state of civil war with the Remans, unless Riker & Troi can work things out after the destruction of the Scinitar.

Kira's reluctant training of the Cardassian Underground and Gul Damar resulted in the improbable but very real conclusion of Garack becoming total Prefict of Cardassia - and definitely one who would retain pro-Federation alliance agendas.

Odo's return as a messiah to his people to cure them from utter genocidal destruction might result in a voice of moderation emerging from the Dominion, but we don't really know. So here a threat remains.

The netherworlds stability hangs on the balance of Sisko's ability to defeat the Pa Wraiths who annimate Dukat. Another threat remains.

Janeway's defeat of the Borg may or may not be determinate. The Borg have the ability to reach back through time and have seemed to have initiated a time loop back in Archer's era which they might be able to exploit. We don't have any idea what could happen there. A Voyager movie is not too likely, but it could happen, and would be the best vehicle with which to reach a settlement with the Borg within.

In the Delta Quadrant, enemies from the Kazon, to the Vidiian, the Hirogen, Species 8472, the Meylon, and more might come back for some more trouble.

I doubt the Remans are going to be overly grateful to see Captain Troi, and the crew of the U.S.S. Titan may be in for some rough adventures.

That is if Archer doesn't blow up the universe in his time frame first.

JediTricks
05-22-2003, 11:38 PM
First off, phooey to the jerks who recycled the Klingon Bird of Prey design into that early BOP - what a stretch! :rolleyes: Secondly, phooey to the jerks who recycled the photon torpedoes right down to their movie-era casings, and to the yokel who wrote the line about refitting the torpedo tubes for them (uh, yeah, the regular torpedoes are thin little missiles less than a foot across and the photorps are nearly 3 feet across and an odd shape). Thirdly, why have a disaster of such massive proportions when nobody on any other Trek show has ever mentioned such an event? Or is this a confirmed monkeying of the timeline in a major way, a la what Berman referred to in the recent TV Guide story when he said "Let's just say there will be a slight revision in our mission, and a slight revision in the part of space that Enterprise is heading into."

If this ep is to be the future of the show, I really don't think I'll be interested. This felt like poorly-thought-out stuff thrown together for an action feel, like a 3-episode story-arc on Voyager.

Anakin2121
05-23-2003, 09:13 AM
They did need to make a change to the series, though, and I think this is the best way they could have done it. The third season is said to have considerably more action and danger -- not a bad thing, because Enterprise has, for the most part, has been a dull, do-nothing series to this point.

Mandalorian Candidat
05-23-2003, 10:43 AM
I'm not into ST as much as I am into SW, ergo I'm not familiar with any story arc that may exist in TOS other than the "5 year mission, blah, blah, blah..." I suppose what Berman & Co. is trying to do is get as much audience as they can outside of the core of fans, be they Trekkies or somewhat casual watchers as I consider myself to be. Since the past types of episodes haven't worked spectacularly in the ratings, it seems that they are trying to push the timeline closer to that of the TOS, i.e., use of photon torpedoes, more transporter use, frequent run-ins with Klingons, etc.

Personally, it doesn't matter if they diddle with the finer timeline points. Since I'm not familiar with the "cannonized" timeline I don't care what minor things they dink around with as long as it makes sense in the larger picture with the TOS.

That being said I thought this season finale was pretty good. It wasn't a blatant cliffhanger like most ST endings are yet it leaves next season open to a whole string of episodes where the crew is under different circumstances. It seems like it's necessary at this point because what else can Berman & Co. do besides write the same format of show over and over with a good one to advance the timeline now and then?

My one request to Paramount is to hand the reigns of the franchise over to someone else, at least for a little while. I think this Rick guy (Hmmm, anyone notice that the name Rick--at least in scifi--seems to be attached to series who have taken a turn for the worst) has grown quite comfortable in his creative capacity, thus miring the franchise in a stagnant quagmire. Some fresh blood is needed here, methinks.

dr_evazan22
05-23-2003, 04:26 PM
I just got to see this last night. We now get to see the "War on Terrorism" as fought in whatever century this takes place in.

I wasn't too impressed to say the least.

Like MC, I'm not a Trekkie. Can someone tell/explain how the Federation of Planets came about?

Tycho- Capt Troi? I thoguht that Ryker was capt? A friend at work who likes Trek said they are considering a ST movie w/ Titan and not Enterprise. Is this what you were referring to?

I've gott to say that I think I agree w/ MC, that the Ent is a little stale right now. One of the things I liked about TNG was how a lot of episodes had moral message to them. I don't see that as much here.

JediTricks
05-24-2003, 02:35 AM
I think part of the problem is that Enterprise is too much like Star Trek, though sadly specifically meaning Voyager and late TNG. The mood and environment being set by the writers and producers doesn't match the actual premise: the excitement of new discoveries, the adventure of building something special from the ground up, running around the galaxy making mistakes instead of fixing them - hell, most of these were supposed to be premises of Voyager as well but they didn't bother actually doing that, they went with the TNG approach except without the magic that made that show special. I'm afraid Enterprise was falling into that same trap, and this new direction of having to go into the expanse and save Earth feels so much like a Voyager clone that I can't imagine a premise less promising for Trek.

TOS had a sparkle that pushed it past the cheesy effects and cornball aliens, the issues were raw and the characters felt or acted big in response. Nothing was shoved down the throat and the captain was always out there trying to do right while checking out the cosmos and saving the good guys from being killed by the bad guys, and he LOVED his job. Archer seems very sure of himself but not as enthusastic or raw as he should, and this seems to be the case with a lot of the Ent characters and even the lighting and music.


Oh, and one thing we can definitely agree on, BERMAN MUST GO!!!

Tycho
05-25-2003, 07:08 PM
Dr.E:

It was suggested in Nemesis that in Betazoid tradition, the husband takes the wife's last name.

Thus, Captain William T. Troi is the commander of the USS Titan, and his wife is ship's counselor, Commander Deanna Troi - who also wears the pants in the family ;)

(until Will's mother-in-law shows up, that is!)

However the Federation of Planets is formed, it will STILL REMAIN TO BE SHOWN on the television series: ENTERPRISE.

So this is the non-Trekker's Trek (supposedly).

You don't need to know anything about Star Trek to watch Enterprise.

All in all, I think it is a cool series. I think that it may please non-fans more than the fans - of which the latter will be first to say it sucks, since they have past Star Trek's to judge it against.

I agree with the esteem JediTricks holds the original series up with, but also think that Deep Space Nine became Star Trek's best legacy and is first among Treks worth watching!

(1st and 2nd Seasons will be a little slow for beginners, but its amazing in retrospect, all the clues and foreshadowings they put into those first 2 years, until THE DOMINION WAR starts brewing in the 3rd season. That was early skirmishes with The Dominion and their Jem'Hadar warriors, which will lead into the Alpha Quadrant (earth's home sector) becoming unstabalized and war breaking out with the Klingons until they can be brought back into the fold in the face of a complete Dominion invasion, and the real ignition of 3 years of total, open warfare! Deep Space Nine rocks and Sn 1 and 2 are available on DVD in every Walmart now!)

scruffziller
05-27-2003, 10:06 AM
Well a rather weak season ender. The real excitement won't be here till next season.

JediTricks
05-27-2003, 05:02 PM
Tycho, DS9 is like Babylon 5 (literally, but that's another story of Berman ripping someone off ;)) in that it's great TV sci-fi but is incredibly difficult to jump into. Enterprise has to be anti that, like TOS it has to be loose enough and stereotypical enough with its plots and characters that it can withstand jumping in at any point yet still be true to the ideals of adventure and discovery - Roddenberry's "Horatio Hornblower in space"... I think "Enterprise" is woefully lacking that.

Tycho
02-14-2007, 03:28 PM
So I started watching all my Enterprise DVDs over again. I really liked this show. It didn't get the chance it deserved from many of the Trek fans but was actually a rather nice reboot to the franchise.

JediTricks
02-16-2007, 10:16 PM
They've been airing episodes on Sci-Fi Channel lately and I can't stand them anymore, they're so Voyager all over again (and Voyager's been on Spike lately, that show's no prize pig).

Tycho
02-16-2007, 10:20 PM
What's wrong with them?

If you haven't watched Star Trek (any) in a long while, Enterprise is very entertaining and I'm enjoying myself rewatching this series quite a bit.

JediTricks
02-17-2007, 06:37 AM
They're bad sci-fi with a big budget, the writers are so set in trying not to upset the apple cart in the way they're writing that they end up having thin characters and lame situations and contrived plots and insulting answers to the problems. They don't do a good job of devolving Trek, especially when so much of the tech is the same and looks more advanced than TOS or TNG, and the plots are very similar to Voyager, and EVERYTHING has to be "the first _____". The villains and dangers are bland in the hope of making them "layered". Also, and this is probably the most damning in my book, it totally lacked the raw passion for the Star Trek future that TOS-DS9 enjoyed, likely because Berman and Paramount had become set in their ways and too afraid to try new things. It was more heavy-handed slop from the makers of Voyager.

Tycho
02-20-2007, 01:46 AM
So I'm rewatching all my DVDs and this Enterprise episode, "Oasis," while good, was too close of copy to a DS9 episode "Shadow Play," which also starred Rene Abourgenois (that time as Odo, of course).

Both episodes have the stars finding survivors of colonies / transports having created holograms to keep them company because of some disaster. Actually, if you want to take it a step further, Star Trek TNG did the same thing in "The Survivors," but in that case, an all-powerful alien was recreating his wife and home after committing genocide in anger (a little different).

I think Trek fans tire of some of the repetative types of plots. On a different hand, they like to see how a different crew would handle the situation - such as in Voyager - a premise being "would a female captain have a different style?" And the ideas are recycled all over again.

I loved Odo on DS9, but was using Rene as the guest star in "Oasis" the right choice in light of the similar plotline to a very strong Odo episode of DS9?

Mad Slanted Powers
02-20-2007, 02:28 AM
I enjoyed Enterprise. I didn't much care for the overuse of the time-travel thing though.

I happened to catch the episode where they went to Risa on Sci-Fi tonight.

Porthos is a cute dog. If Snoopy is a beagle, how come he doesn't look like that?

Tycho
02-20-2007, 11:25 AM
I think Snoopy is also part German-Shepherd because he flies as the Red Baron.

Mad Slanted Powers
02-20-2007, 08:32 PM
I think Snoopy is also part German-Shepherd because he flies as the Red Baron.
No, he is fighting the Red Baron.

Ji'dai
02-21-2007, 03:36 PM
I really enjoy the show so far. I've been watching the re-runs on Sci Fi, since I never tuned in while the series was still in production.

I gave up on both DS9 and Voyager a couple of years after TNG was cancelled so it's been awhile since I've explored the Trek universe. I like the Enterprise cast and love the time travel stuff.

The most recent episode had T'pol recounting first Vulcan contact with humans at Cold Creek, PA in 1957. So was that supposed to actually be T'pol or was it her great-grandmother? I know they're long-lived, but I got the impression it might've been T'pol who was there.

Tycho
02-21-2007, 04:53 PM
Coincidentally, this part of the series (beginning season 2) is exactly where I am in watching all my DVDs. The Carbon Creek episode is the very next one I'm going to watch. Unless someone else recollects an answer to your question better, I'll chime in again in some hours after I have a chance to watch this one again.

That was a good episode, but I remember the impression it left more than the explicit facts. So stand by...

Tycho
02-22-2007, 05:15 PM
I really enjoy the show so far. I've been watching the re-runs on Sci Fi, since I never tuned in while the series was still in production.

I gave up on both DS9 and Voyager a couple of years after TNG was cancelled so it's been awhile since I've explored the Trek universe. I like the Enterprise cast and love the time travel stuff.

The most recent episode had T'pol recounting first Vulcan contact with humans at Cold Creek, PA in 1957. So was that supposed to actually be T'pol or was it her great-grandmother? I know they're long-lived, but I got the impression it might've been T'pol who was there.

I just watched the episode. I think it was T'Pol's great-grandmother. I don't think she could have been that long-lived. Enterprise takes place in the 2150's. That would put T'Pol at nearly 200 years old. It's hard to judge Vulcans by their looks, but I'd think a 200 year old Vulcan would look like they were in their 50's-60's in comparable earth terms. T'Pol looks like she is in her later 20's by earth standards, so I'd say in Vulcan years, she's definitely under 100. Maybe 80 or something. It was later revealed in a show and she wasn't exceptionally old.

JediTricks or Lt.Basker might know better, though.

Mad Slanted Powers
02-22-2007, 07:52 PM
Looks like she was 63 at the beginning of Enterprise.

http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/series/ENT/character/1122645.html

Tycho
02-22-2007, 09:36 PM
It's good to know StarTrek.com is still there. I had heard it was taken down due to the lack of support for a current TV series.

If it ever was, I'm glad it's back. I'll have to scan their message boards. I registered there a long time ago.

But really I should stick to my book. I wrote about 20 more pages today.

Message boards are huge distractions. Speaking of which....

Tycho
02-28-2007, 07:17 PM
I just watched "Singularity" again (Season 2, 9th episode I believe)

I never remembered enjoying it so much - I have to check back and re-read through this thread concerning that).

It was so funny I laughed out loud:

Most Star Trek shows do this - they have some plot device that makes the crew act all weird. For Enterprise it was being too close to a black hole.

Trip and Malcolm were my favorites: Malcolm invents "the Reed Alert," and calls for battle station drills every minute while Trip tries to redesign the Captain's chair.

Meanwhile, Phlox wants to drill holes into Travis' head to try and find out why there's nothing wrong with him.

Hoshi goes all "Iron Chef," and Archer obsesses over being asked to write a foreward passage to a book about his father.

They all get on each other's nerves as each is convinced that their task is the most important thing that anyone could possibly have to do. Then the Reed Alert goes off again! Ha-ha.

That the tactical systems charge and the hull polarizes automatically during the Reed Alert actually winds up saving the ship in a cool asteroid sequence and in the end, Archer calls for it to remain "standard protocal." But the show was too funny!

pbarnard
02-28-2007, 11:33 PM
I think the chair aspect was the most amusing and great little piece of Trek lore on putting all the functions in the arm rests.

Tycho
02-28-2007, 11:46 PM
I think the chair aspect was the most amusing and great little piece of Trek lore on putting all the functions in the arm rests.

Ultimately, they will do that. But Trip said he didn't get to that. He only lowered the chair by a centimeter after all that (since he'd taken the Captain's measurements).

Ji'dai
03-03-2007, 02:52 PM
I just watched the episode. I think it was T'Pol's great-grandmother. I don't think she could have been that long-lived. Enterprise takes place in the 2150's. That would put T'Pol at nearly 200 years old. It's hard to judge Vulcans by their looks, but I'd think a 200 year old Vulcan would look like they were in their 50's-60's in comparable earth terms. T'Pol looks like she is in her later 20's by earth standards, so I'd say in Vulcan years, she's definitely under 100. Maybe 80 or something. It was later revealed in a show and she wasn't exceptionally old. I figured as much. T'pol still had the purse her ancestor used on Earth, so it was probably passed down to her. Still, it's evidence that first contact happened as she told it. I wonder what happened to the Vulcan they left behind. Probably got killed in the Eugenics Wars of the 1990s :D

The re-runs on Sci Fi haven't gotten as far as you, Tycho. The most recent episode was Enterprise helping deuterium miners stand up to some Klingon bullies.

I think there were a couple of Star Wars references in recent eps too. Reed asks Archer to strip down a hydrospanner so he can disable a spacemine on the Enterprise hull when they encounter the Romulans. Then Phlox transplants a pituitary gland from a "Calrissian" lizard into Porthos when the dog gets sick after an away mission.

I liked the ep. with the automated repair station Enterprise docks to get repairs. The station computer abducting and assimilating humanoids to increase its processing power reminded me of some rudimentary Borg ancestor. Very creepy story.

Tycho
03-03-2007, 05:29 PM
Ji'dai, you're actually right about where I am in watching my DVDs. I took a break and really got into some work on my novel, so I haven't watched for a little bit. The next episode I will put on is VERY Star Warsy in that Trip helps a Princess escape and argues with her every step of the way - sound familiar?

Trip's such a great character!

Blue2th
03-03-2007, 05:54 PM
Trip's such a great character!

He is. If you look closely, he could even play President George Bush, with a little make-up. Years down the road they might cast him for that. He's even got that southern drawl down pat...............They should have never cancelled Enterprise. I liked all of it. The last season it was getting really good. Fighting the Zendi. Part of the on-going theme of the Temporal Time Wars. My favorite is the two part episode of the mirror universe. "In the Mirror Darkly" I do believe. I need to buy the DVD set, but it's expensive so I catch as much as I can on Sci-Fi Mondays.

Ji'dai
03-20-2007, 02:46 PM
The next episode I will put on is VERY Star Warsy in that Trip helps a Princess escape and argues with her every step of the way - sound familiar?

Trip's such a great character! That one reminded more of that TNG episode where some Ferengi crack open that stasis egg with an female empath played by Famke "Jean Grey" Jansson inside. Picard had to confine her to quarters and chaperone her at all times because she was driving all the men aboard Enterprise nuts.

Trip's princess had similar neck markings to the TNG empath too. At first I thought she might've even been a Trill.

I liked this week's episode where they haul in a derelict spacecraft with a dead human pilot. Another time-travel one, but I love those.

Tycho
03-20-2007, 03:01 PM
That's toward the end of Season 2. There was a nice firefight with the first appearance of the Tholians in that one, not to mention more Suliban action.

I'm watching Season 3 now - the war with the Xindi. Very cool so far. I need to catch up on the Season 3 thread we had here and see what everyone said back then (2003-2004 I think).

The show got better and better IMO - more exciting and more action. On MySpace, there are a lot of newbies entering the Enterprise-only Star Trek group who watch Captain Archer on Spike or Sci-Fi, wherever, and it is their first intro to Star Trek and what made them a fan. Now they're watching all the series. Go figure.