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Dexter
05-03-2002, 03:11 PM
I don't know about anyone else, but the first time I saw Star Wars: Episode 1, I thought Jar Jar was hysterical, and everyone laughing in the theater seemed to agree with me. Then I went home, went on the Net, heard some anti-Jar Jar sentimes, and they seemed to spread like wildfire. :cry:

I mean, come on, what's WRONG with Jar Jar? Is he any worse than the little boy who by chance happens to fly into outer space and win the battle for the Federation? How about the little teddy bears that beat up the Empire's finest with sticks and rocks, and take C-3PO as their God? Or Chewbacca's family from the Christmas special? :D

Star Wars is full of silly moments--why is only Jar Jar despised? He's at least as cool as Chewbacca.

SithDroid
05-03-2002, 05:31 PM
It's all opinion. I for one hated Jar-Jar. And funny, when I saw him in the theatre for the first time, the audience didn't laugh at all at anything he did. They all had the same reaction I did. I think that putting Jar-Jar on the same level of Chewie is an insult to Chewbacca.

chewie
05-03-2002, 05:51 PM
I went into the theater about a week after E1 came out. I had already heard that people were annoyed by the character, and when I finally saw for myself, I pretty much agreed. Jar Jar is incredibly obnoxious. Not only that, but the situations he got into without influencing their cause were at times too silly for the SW movies for me. Such as stepping in poo and getting farted on.

2-1B
05-03-2002, 09:41 PM
I look at it this way:

I like Jar Jar,
I like his walk, his voice/speech patterns, the character's design and such.

I'm not too big on the way they used him sometimes, i.e. "stepping in poo and getting farted on", or getting kicked in the junk (okay, that was pretty fnny ;) )

I really like Ewan McGregor, and if they gave him those same experiences I would not be happy about it but still like the character. Hope that gives some perspective. :)

Beast
05-03-2002, 09:47 PM
Try here, for quite a few more Binks supporters and a few detracters opinions, including my own. You can tell I really like the charecter, though like Caeser, I don't like everything they did with him. :)

http://www.sirstevesguide.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6356

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

bigbarada
05-04-2002, 12:13 AM
Jar Jar was great! Sure some of his scenes were a little unecessary; but he was definitely a refreshing foil to the wooden, emotionless Jedi. Seeing how his character develops in Ep2 makes me like him even more. Anyways, check out the thread JJB references to get more of my opinion.

Darth Nihilus
05-04-2002, 03:26 AM
I hate Jar Jar because I hate most comic relief characters that have little to no meaning to the movie - He has one crucial scene, as a result I have to sit through the most banal, outdated, pathetic Jerry Lewis style humour to get to this one bit. Now compare that to Donkey from Shrek. From the moment they meet Donkey helps mold Shrek into a different being and does so as the movie progresses, therefore his importance to the movie is apparent throughout the story. In TPM the Jedi can't stand Jar Jar from the beginning and they're supposed to be serene fatalists.

Beast
05-04-2002, 03:38 AM
What Jedi can't stand Jar Jar? The only one that didn't like him much was Obi-Wan at the beginning. Qui-Gon liked him, and even saved his life because the force told him that Jar Jar was meant for somthing great.

Take a read of the novel based on the movie, to see that Qui-Gon actually has similar feelings about Jar Jar as he does Anakin. Obi-Wan actually makes himself out as a complete jerk to Jar Jar in the book, and Qui-Gon chastizes him for it.

They should have left more of that in the movie. Also the serious conversation he has with Queen Amidala on Corsurant. Cutting that scene was the biggest mistake in E1. It adds a much more complex side to Jar Jar, and sets his charecter up better for E2. :(

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Battle Droid
05-04-2002, 07:21 AM
I'm going to hate Jar Jar even more for what he does in Ep2 ;)

187-Maul
05-04-2002, 07:43 AM
I also like jar-jar
some scenes are stupid and unnecessary but most of it is cool or at least ok
the one I like least in E-1 is actually anakin, in the space battle he acs like it's a video-game or something ("let's do this, that's a good trick...") and doesn't take the situation serious
also that he saves everyone by an "accident" is pretty stupid IMO

stillakid
05-04-2002, 10:58 AM
For the majority of the movie going audience who didn't like the movie, they aren't "critics" so putting their finger on exactly what it was they didn't like is difficult especially if it's an intangible. Enter Jar Jar, an entity that they can actually point to and say "Ewww." While annoying on his own, he was the unfortunate scapegoat for many of the film's other problems.

Darth Nihilus
05-04-2002, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by JarJarBinks
Take a read of the novel based on the movie, to see that Qui-Gon actually has similar feelings about Jar Jar as he does Anakin. Obi-Wan actually makes himself out as a complete jerk to Jar Jar in the book, and Qui-Gon chastizes him for it. MTFBWY and HH!!
Jar Jar Binks

I did read the book and all it is, is just an extended exposition on the movie that still has no bearing on the final characterisations of the on-screen personalities.

In the movie Qui-Gon's second line to Jar Jar is "Are you braindead?" Then on Tattooine Qui-Gon reprimands Jar Jar for his behaviour. Yes, the only reason he kept him around was because of the part he had to play in the movie's climax.

bigbarada
05-04-2002, 05:54 PM
Qui-Gonn "adopted" Jar Jar because, as Obi-Wan noted, he had a soft spot for "pathetic lifeforms." Just because Qui-Gonn chastizes him occasionally doesn't mean he hates him, he just gets a little frustrated by his behavior. And for the record, Qui-Gonn called him "brainless" not "braindead."

SithDroid
05-04-2002, 11:38 PM
Originally posted by stillakid
For the majority of the movie going audience who didn't like the movie, they aren't "critics" so putting their finger on exactly what it was they didn't like is difficult especially if it's an intangible. Enter Jar Jar, an entity that they can actually point to and say "Ewww." While annoying on his own, he was the unfortunate scapegoat for many of the film's other problems.

I agree. Many people usually can't tell people what they didn't like about a film, but most people can easily say Jar Jar.

Looking at the exact shooting script without the Jar Jar that we know of, he is really not that bad of a character. The problem with Jar Jar is the way he was executed. His speech, the way he walks, etc... are all poorly done. I didn't have a problem with the other gungans, just Jar Jar. It is the silly childish "Kiddy, f@rt, child humor that detracts from the films integrity. I always thought of SW as a really highly respected series of films. By adding these cheap kiddy jokes, it lessens the films impact it has and becomes more for the "trailer park/Jerry Springer/f@rt joke" loving people. I hope that someday if Lucas ever goes back and edits TPM that he cuts the stepping in poop, getting f@rted on, and the energy binders part. It is almost like GL crammed TOO much kiddy jokes into the film. There is a rule to follow, "three strikes and you're out, "which Jar Jar used up about 20.

Darth Nihilus
05-05-2002, 12:46 AM
It wouldn't have been so bad (the childish humour) had it not centered all around Jar Jar. Seriously, anyone that clumsy would have been dead long before they got to that point in the movie, barring a comedy, which Star Wars isn't. And another thing - why didn't Jar Jar, an amphibious creature, turn into a prune on Tattooine?

stillakid
05-05-2002, 09:42 AM
Originally posted by Darth Nihilus
It wouldn't have been so bad (the childish humour) had it not centered all around Jar Jar. Seriously, anyone that clumsy would have been dead long before they got to that point in the movie, barring a comedy, which Star Wars isn't. And another thing - why didn't Jar Jar, an amphibious creature, turn into a prune on Tattooine?


Annoying "scientific" details, like gravity, moisture, and the likelihood of bloodstream symbiots are ignored in Star Wars World.:rolleyes:

ANAKIN_SOLO
05-06-2002, 03:23 AM
Originally posted by stillakid



Annoying "scientific" details, like gravity, moisture, and the likelihood of bloodstream symbiots are ignored in Star Wars World.:rolleyes:

Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You, and most replying get the big picture lol. Some peope remind me of those kids on Galaxy Quest:rolleyes:

bigbarada
05-06-2002, 03:44 AM
Originally posted by stillakid



Annoying "scientific" details, like gravity, moisture, and the likelihood of bloodstream symbiots are ignored in Star Wars World.:rolleyes:

Um, yeah, that's the whole point. This isn't supposed to be a realistic exposition of the effects of different planetary climates on various lifeforms. It's an opera set in an outer space location. The scientific crap can go hang for two hours.

I will concede the "explaining the midichlorians" scene, it did slow the story down and probably should have been integrated into the story in a different way.

Lman316
05-25-2002, 09:47 AM
I like Jar Jar, and I'm not afraid to admit it. And no, SithDroid, I'm not, nor have I ever been a fan of Jerry Springer, as I absolutely detest the man and his show. I see myself as an intelligent person and just because I like Jar Jar - or his antics - doesn't make me any less of one.
The character is annoying, yes that's true. But he's a messed up teenager, and for the most part, he's funny. And, just to get people thinking a little bit (although I know SOMEONE is going to have some kind of argument for this): But Yoda (in ESB) was just as annoying. He was going through Luke's things, talking backwards, throwing stuff, fighting with R2, laughing like a loon. And that too was FUNNY. But he was being annoying and people don't hate Yoda...or they don't seem to, at least.
Star Wars is NOT a Schindler's List, nor an Apollo 13, nor any other serious type of movie. To say that Jar Jar and things like him takes away from the Saga's integrity is just wrong. This is FUN movie, not a serious movie. If you see it as serious, than perhaps you're watching the wrong type of film. This is based - I'm pretty sure that I've heard - on 30's, 40' and 50's stuff. Back then, I'm sure that their stuff wasn't serious, so why should it be now? It's supposed to be fun. You're not supposed to sit there and argue with and critique everything that's on screen:

"Well, Qui-Gon should be getting burned there!"
"Wait, Han has a different shirt!" (And still, to this day, I don't see a difference, but I guess that's because I'm not looking for it. I'm too busy actually watching ROTJ)
"Wait a minute...how can there be noise in space?!"

You're just ruining it for yourself. And if you look hard enough, you can ruin any movie, including the original trilogy. But again, if you're just looking for "mistakes" or bad parts in the movie, why even bother to watch it?

Darth Nihilus
05-25-2002, 02:18 PM
Why do people assume that when you have a persistent complaint about something you're nitpicking, or looking for faults? How about the idea that something is so awful that it stands out and mars the film's performance?:rolleyes:

Lman316
05-26-2002, 01:21 PM
Originally posted by Darth Nihilus
Why do people assume that when you have a persistent complaint about something you're nitpicking, or looking for faults? How about the idea that something is so awful that it stands out and mars the film's performance?:rolleyes:

Okay, I can see that that's not always the case. Something just might stick out and you realize that you don't like it.
But, I have to ask, what about the little things? What about stuff like ships not being able to make noise in space? Or the difference of a shirt from ESB to ROTJ? You'd really have to be looking for those because they don't just jump right off the screen.
Jar Jar is an "acquired taste", as are his antics and the situations he's in - I'll give you that. But because I like him, or I find some of his situations funny, doesn't mean that I'm ignorant or "lowly" as has been said on this thread. I find humor in it, but that doesn't make me stupid or any less intelligent (or dignified), and I don't feel I should be insulted that way.
But, getting away from Jar Jar, it's just that some people ARE looking for faults, I mean, how else could you describe it? When they go into a movie (which they probably shouldn't be watching anyway) saying: "I just KNOW I'm not going to like this". And then when they get there, they're just going to say, "Well, that's stupid, and I don't like this, and oh, no, that's wrong - it should be done like this !" It just ruins the movie anyway. And if you can't give up the laws of science for two hours, then perhaps you're watching the wrong type of movie.

JediTricks
05-26-2002, 07:14 PM
Originally posted by Lman316
But, I have to ask, what about the little things? What about stuff like ships not being able to make noise in space? Or the difference of a shirt from ESB to ROTJ? You'd really have to be looking for those because they don't just jump right off the screen. Here's a "little thing" that really drives me nuts about Ep 2, maybe it'll give you some insight into this issue:
Early on in Ep 2, Zam Wesell shoots her blaster pistol, it makes a TIE Fighter's sound effect. Later in the film, a Geonosian airspeeder shoots and makes the same sound effect. Now, very few people probably noticed or cared about that, but I found it extremely annoying - we've established in the OT that ship-based blasters sound vastly different to hand-held blasters, and then here in Ep 2, we say the exact opposite. Even worse, it's not just ANY ship-based blaster sound, it's a pre-determined one with a specific identity being misused for a handheld blaster; if it had JUST been the Geonosian airspeeders, I might have forgiven it, but to be BOTH these things??? I can't stand that.


As to answer this thread's question, I don't hate Jar Jar, but I don't like him either. I hate how he was used in Ep 1 with the constant taking away of his dignity for cheap laughs and the lack of character depth he shows (except when he is speaking with Amidala in private on Coruscant); and on a different level, I think his voice is far too cartoony, especially in comparison to the more noble-sounding Gungan characters we meet later on.

Lman316
05-26-2002, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by JediTricks
Here's a "little thing" that really drives me nuts about Ep 2, maybe it'll give you some insight into this issue:
Early on in Ep 2, Zam Wesell shoots her blaster pistol, it makes a TIE Fighter's sound effect. Later in the film, a Geonosian airspeeder shoots and makes the same sound effect. Now, very few people probably noticed or cared about that, but I found it extremely annoying - we've established in the OT that ship-based blasters sound vastly different to hand-held blasters, and then here in Ep 2, we say the exact opposite. Even worse, it's not just ANY ship-based blaster sound, it's a pre-determined one with a specific identity being misused for a handheld blaster; if it had JUST been the Geonosian airspeeders, I might have forgiven it, but to be BOTH these things??? I can't stand that.


As to answer this thread's question, I don't hate Jar Jar, but I don't like him either. I hate how he was used in Ep 1 with the constant taking away of his dignity for cheap laughs and the lack of character depth he shows (except when he is speaking with Amidala in private on Coruscant); and on a different level, I think his voice is far too cartoony, especially in comparison to the more noble-sounding Gungan characters we meet later on.

I actually did notice Zam's blaster making that noise, but I didn't let it bother me. I just kinda thought of it as a "tribute" or something for the TIE fighters that will be coming in later on (in the saga, I mean. Not in Episode 2). Kinda like a "what's-to-come" type thing.

About Jar Jar sounding too cartoony, I think that was because of his youth. I keep hearing that he was supposed to be a teenager in TPM, if that could help his image at all. In Episode 2, he didn't really sound that bad to me.

stillakid
05-26-2002, 09:38 PM
Originally posted by Lman316

Kinda like a "what's-to-come" type thing.



According to George's interview in the new INSIDER, expect to see a lot more of that nostalgic nonsense thrown in there "just because."


I too didn't mind Jar Jar except for the overdone slapstick that he provides. The movie didn't need it and it his character didn't provide any meaningful additions to make it any better. There were larger issues dwarfing any Jar Jar objections that might have come to mind.

JediTricks
05-26-2002, 10:25 PM
I don't understand why a handheld blaster would be a tribute to the TIE sound. I could understand the Geonosian airspeeder's blasters, but Zam's?

Jar Jar was 20, according to his SW.com bio.

Darth Nihilus
05-29-2002, 12:10 AM
My point LMan - is that I can't stand Jar Jar so much that it becomes a diversion for me to nitpick, I'm willing to guarantee everyone here's done it to a movie they don't like, or something they didn't like about a movie. I mean if I was looking for things to really nit-pick about then I'd say that Darth Maul is as useless as Boba Fett. Afterall he got his butt handed to him by an apprentice. But I don't pick on Maul because I actually like him. I only pick on something if I don't like it.

saladin
06-02-2002, 01:08 AM
i have the perfect scenes for jar-jar
1)he pics up a lightsaber and slices him self up
2)he picks one up and mace kills him

Needles
07-09-2002, 09:57 PM
Why is Jar Jar so hated so much?I love Jar Jar!maybe not loved but liked,he was so stupid,i can relate my self to him!crazy i say.:D

Beast
07-09-2002, 10:04 PM
Not everyone does, here are some threads with proof of that:

http://www.sirstevesguide.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7453

http://www.sirstevesguide.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6356

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Needles
07-09-2002, 10:07 PM
at least some people like him,thats good,I thought i WAS THE only one.

Beast
07-09-2002, 10:19 PM
I wouldn't have the name, if I didn't like the charecter. I hope to see his story ark finally play out in a grand way in E3. Darn, three years is such a long wait. :(

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Needles
07-09-2002, 10:28 PM
3 years kept me ont he computer looking for spoilers!And Jar jar is one of the best!When you came out of the theater when you saw EP1 did you hear anyone say "that was the worst movie ever"
I did,2 punk looking teenagers said it,I was going to beat the **** out them or at least slap 'em silly.

MFH
07-10-2002, 12:22 AM
I don't hate Jar Jar, but there are two things in TPM that I do hate. 1) Midichlorians. 2) Jake Loyd.

DarthBatman
07-10-2002, 01:44 AM
I like Jar Jar in E2; I hate Jar Jar in E1.

Needles
07-10-2002, 10:08 AM
ok,Likeing Jar Jar in EP2 is nothing ,liking Jar Jar in EP1 great!(great in rank)

Jonna
07-10-2002, 10:16 AM
I think the thing is that there are alot of individuals that take SW FAR to seriously, like it is a bible or something. The character of Jar Jar is a threat to people with this mindset because he adds a slapstick type element to the story that was not ventured upon before and it is hard to take things quasi-religiously fanatical when you have a character stepping in poo.

I personally don't care for Jar Jar, but my reasoning is that, while he is done quite well, I still feel like he is out of toon town. The CGI Yoda however was perfect.

Needles
07-10-2002, 10:19 AM
That could be the reason why,Never thought of that.

Needles
07-10-2002, 10:21 AM
oh Jake loyd was pretty much terible acting in EP1

stillakid
07-10-2002, 10:38 AM
I wouldn't have minded him so much if his character actually had a purpose in the story (TPM). He was the link to get Amidala together with the Naboo, but that was a fairly useless exercise as our heroes would have been able to sneak into the palace in any circumstance.

Also, he abandoned his life debt responsibilities in order to gain a rank in the army. Had he joined the heroes on their quest to get into the palace, then died a martyrs death trying to protect them, then his purpose would have been a) fulfilled as it was established at the beginning of the film, and b) would have given "Jar Jar haters" a reason to cheer.

Overall he was just there for the lil' kids for poo jokes and such. Quite pointless in a story that otherwise was trying to be serious.

Jonna
07-10-2002, 10:43 AM
Well, he was the link between the two races and the driod army would not have been defeated if not for their alliance.

stillakid
07-10-2002, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by Jonna
Well, he was the link between the two races and the driod army would not have been defeated if not for their alliance.

Yes he was the link, but the only good that did was to put Jar Jar in the Senate seat for Ep II. His purpose there was to essentially open the door for Palpatine to seize control, but that could have been accomplished by any half-wit in the Senate. That payoff (of having Jar Jar open that door) doesn't come close to redeeming the poor way in which his character was handled in TPM.

The Droid army was indeed defeated, but not by the Nabooians. It was through Anakin's accidently taking off and then screwing around in the starfighter and accidently crashing into the ship and accidently firing the torpedoes that ended up disabling the droid army. Jar Jar and his pal were about to either get toasted or taken prisoner at the conclusion of the ground battle.

In terms of the heroes sneaking into the palace and needing a diversion to pull forces out of the city, we never saw any evidence whatsoever that a) that much of the invasion army was actually in the city, or b) any evidence whatsoever that, as Amidala said, "People are dying." This was the cleanest and most peaceful invasion since the Beatles. There was absolutely no necessity for the Nabooians to take on the Federation in a head-to-head Civil War type battle. It was clearly an obvious attempt by Lucas to create his favorite "3-pronged battle" style and nothing more especially since it made little sense.

Jonna
07-10-2002, 11:05 AM
Originally posted by stillakid



The Droid army was indeed defeated, but not by the Nabooians. It was through Anakin's accidently taking off and then screwing around in the starfighter and accidently crashing into the ship and accidently firing the torpedoes that ended up disabling the droid army. Jar Jar and his pal were about to either get toasted or taken prisoner at the conclusion of the ground battle.



If it was not for the distraction that the Gungans gave with their army, the bulk of the droid army would not have left the city and the second group may not have made it into the thrown room as well as the pilots possibly not making it to the hanger.

Everything is there for a reason, even when you don't see it.

2-1B
07-10-2002, 11:14 AM
This was the cleanest and most peaceful invasion since the Beatles.
:D :D :D :D :D

Can we fit the Monkees in with AOTC? Maybe draw a connection to the darker and more disturbing elements?
:)

stillakid
07-10-2002, 11:29 AM
Originally posted by Jonna


If it was not for the distraction that the Gungans gave with their army, the bulk of the droid army would not have left the city and the second group may not have made it into the thrown room as well as the pilots possibly not making it to the hanger.

Everything is there for a reason, even when you don't see it.

Presumably, but again, if it isn't there then why should we assume that it ever was? Where was all this death and destruction Amidala kept talking about. "People are dying, Senator." Where exactly?

And what was the point of "housing" the Naboo pilots in the hangar itself, right next to their ships? This was presumably weeks and weeks after the initial invasion. Why weren't they imprisoned in a "processing station" or even dead for that matter? Why keep them sitting Indian-style right next to their weapons? No, no...I'll tell you. Because Lucas needed pilots to fly immediately into space to start the battle. Made no sense, but hey, why take a straight line between points A and B when you can just draw A and B right next to each other?

That's that kind of sloppy writing I'm talking about in relation to the Jar Jar plotline (and just about everything else that happened in TPM for that matter.)

Needles
07-10-2002, 02:22 PM
the people are dying by executions by Battle droids and Dying in the interment camps the Nemoidians had setup.Jar Jar did play a key roll in TPM because he was the link between the race and Droid army,without Jar Jar All things(MOst things) would be destroyed all because Jar Jar would be not be there.

LTBasker
07-10-2002, 02:28 PM
JarJar is perhaps one of the biggest factors of the SW universe.

If he hadn't been there to tell Obi and Qui about the Gungans, then they would've had a LONG walk ahead of them, in which the Queen would've been taken into a highly guarded camp or the Jedi would've been captured or killed by then.

If JarJar hadn't of been there, then they wouldn't of even considered asking the Gungans. Heck they wouldn't of even known where the Sacred place was, let alone Otoh Gunga. They would've been eaten by an Opee before they even found it.

JarJar did not abandon his life debt with Qui-Gon, Qui-Gon just used it as an excuse to save his life in which he had no real desire to carry out with JarJar being his servant so when JarJar was needed elsewhere, he let him go.

Ja-Ja Binks bein a very okeday dude. :D

stillakid
07-10-2002, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by Needles
the people are dying by executions by Battle droids and Dying in the interment camps the Nemoidians had setup

Really?! I must've had my eyes shut during that part of the movie.


Originally posted by Needles

.Jar Jar did play a key roll in TPM because he was the link between the race and Droid army,without Jar Jar All things(MOst things) would be destroyed all because Jar Jar would be not be there.

:confused: Ya lost me there. Link b/n the race and the droid army? The only link b/n them was a barrage of laser bolts flying through the air.

stillakid
07-10-2002, 02:41 PM
Originally posted by LTBasker
JarJar is perhaps one of the biggest factors of the SW universe.

If he hadn't been there to tell Obi and Qui about the Gungans, then they would've had a LONG walk ahead of them, in which the Queen would've been taken into a highly guarded camp or the Jedi would've been captured or killed by then.

True, very true. But that situation begs the question of why the landing force set down on the opposite side of the planet far far away from any sign of civilization in the first place. Not only that, Obi and Qui got into different ships presumably. With landing ships heading all over the planet, what are the odds that they would have landed so close to one another? Lot's o' convenience just to get a Step-n-Fetchit character shoehorned into the saga just so lil' Jett Lucas could have a chuckle or two.


Originally posted by LTBasker

If JarJar hadn't of been there, then they wouldn't of even considered asking the Gungans. Heck they wouldn't of even known where the Sacred place was, let alone Otoh Gunga. They would've been eaten by an Opee before they even found it.

To quote TPM itself, "An opportunity will present itself." Had they not met the fish people, they would have figured out a different way into the palace. It was never that well guarded in the first place. Qui, Obi, and Navy SEAL in training Jar Jar pranced right into the city square just before "saving" the Queen from the horrors of the Processing Center. With that kind of security, the parade (from the end of the film) could have marched down the street without a shot being fired.


Originally posted by LTBasker

JarJar did not abandon his life debt with Qui-Gon, Qui-Gon just used it as an excuse to save his life in which he had no real desire to carry out with JarJar being his servant so when JarJar was needed elsewhere, he let him go.

Um, yeah, motivations aside, Jar Jar did abandon his life debt when fame and glory presented themselves. He's in it for the power and chicks. That's what motivated him in EP II, the chance to be praised as a hero. Qui Gon never "released" Jar Jar from the debt, so the audience has no reason to believe that the debt is erased. Jar Jar should have been at Qui's side when Maul got in the way. Maybe his clumsiness would inadvertantly have saved Qui's life. Either that, or they could have had Jar Jar burgers later on, but either way, he should have been in the palace, not chasing dreams of grandeur on the battlefield.

LTBasker
07-10-2002, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by stillakid
Um, yeah, motivations aside, Jar Jar did abandon his life debt when fame and glory presented themselves. He's in it for the power and chicks. That's what motivated him in EP II, the chance to be praised as a hero. Qui Gon never "released" Jar Jar from the debt, so the audience has no reason to believe that the debt is erased. Jar Jar should have been at Qui's side when Maul got in the way. Maybe his clumsiness would inadvertantly have saved Qui's life. Either that, or they could have had Jar Jar burgers later on, but either way, he should have been in the palace, not chasing dreams of grandeur on the battlefield.

He wasn't. In the swamp it's clear that Qui-Gon doesn't wish to take him as a servant, in which he uses it as an excuse to keep Jar-Jar from dying. It never shows Qui being masterful like to Jar-Jar, because he never accepted the life debt thing. He let Jar-Jar go off to HIS own people where he belonged and fight along side them. In AOTC, Jar-Jar gave emergency powers to Palpatine because they suckered him into it saying the Padme would the same, so feeling guilty that she wasn't there to give emergency powers to Palpatine so that the army could SAVE the Republic, he did it out of his heart because he didn't want to see the Republic fall.



Originally posted by stillakid
True, very true. But that situation begs the question of why the landing force set down on the opposite side of the planet far far away from any sign of civilization in the first place. Not only that, Obi and Qui got into different ships presumably. With landing ships heading all over the planet, what are the odds that they would have landed so close to one another? Lot's o' convenience just to get a Step-n-Fetchit character shoehorned into the saga just so lil' Jett Lucas could have a chuckle or two.

Actually, it's not much of a coincidence. It most likely was a landing squadron for that area of the swamps and so Obi and Qui getting into seperate ships just means the ships in the squads would've landed in seperate cooridnates and Obi would've been able to find himself back to Qui using the force. It was the will of the force for Qui and Obi to meet up with Jar-Jar. ;)


Originally posted by stillakid
To quote TPM itself, "An opportunity will present itself." Had they not met the fish people, they would have figured out a different way into the palace. It was never that well guarded in the first place. Qui, Obi, and Navy SEAL in training Jar Jar pranced right into the city square just before "saving" the Queen from the horrors of the Processing Center. With that kind of security, the parade (from the end of the film) could have marched down the street without a shot being fired.

They may have been able to find another place in at a later time, but time wasn't on their side. The Trade Fed could've gotten Amidala to sign the treaty by then and then killed her by the time Obi and Qui had gotten into the Palace. Even if they had though, would they have been able to take on countless droids? Especially the Destroyer Droids.

It was by use of Bongo that they were able to sneak in and through most likely a bunch of unwatched alleys and buildings, who knows if they had to take down any droids in the scenes we missed, they quite possibly could have. Battle Droids aren't very observant from what we have seen, so that means that they could've quite easily gotten past them, though when they do see a target then they are quite lethal. It could've also been a not-yet severely guarded area. Plus they weren't expecting something like that.

stillakid
07-10-2002, 03:31 PM
wrong
wrong
wrong

:)

I'm not sure we all watched the same movie. The version I watched was apparently very different from some of you. ;)

LTBasker
07-10-2002, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by stillakid
wrong
wrong
wrong

:)

I'm not sure we all watched the same movie. The version I watched was apparently very different from some of you. ;)

You should take your version back and get a non-damaged version then. ;)

Jonna
07-10-2002, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by stillakid
wrong
wrong
wrong




Why don't you just have a Snoopy snow cone and relax! I believe that everyone else and I agree that your stance on this discussion is invalid. Just let it go and walk away. You can save more face that way.;)

stillakid
07-10-2002, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by Jonna



Why don't you just have a Snoopy snow cone and relax! I believe that everyone else and I agree that your stance on this discussion is invalid. Just let it go and walk away. You can save more face that way.;)

Hardly! Invalid? Interesting choice of words. I don't need to save face when I'm right. :)

stillakid
07-10-2002, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by LTBasker


You should take your version back and get a non-damaged version then. ;)

Yeah, maybe. Mine seems to be missing a plot that makes sense. :)

Jonna
07-10-2002, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by stillakid


Hardly! Invalid? Interesting choice of words. I don't need to save face when I'm right. :)

If that is what you think, then that is all you are ever going to think and none of us can show you the more logical way to see it. I meant no offence, friend. I just thought that you might have realized how off your original statement was by the input of all the other posters here. There is no shame to be had in learning from others. No one is always right.;)

stillakid
07-10-2002, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by Jonna


If that is what you think, then that is all you are ever going to think and none of us can show you the more logical way to see it. I meant no offence, friend. I just thought that you might have realized how off your original statement was by the input of all the other posters here. There is no shame to be had in learning from others. No one is always right.;)

Yes, I tend to go against the grain, but just because a majority (at a particular time and place) believes one thing, does not make it a correct conclusion. If I stepped into a "Worship Jar Jar" or "Worship Lucas" thread by accident, I didn't realize it.

Empirically, TPM was a poorly written screenplay with many a contradiction. The Jar Jar character was much maligned by the general populace which was the basis for the thread title. While many viewers that I've talked to point to the character and object to his speech patterns and childish nature as the reasons for not liking him, I instead believe that he is just a convenient scapegoat for the larger problems that the film has. A non-writer doesn't have the "tools" nor the inclination to delve into the inner plot structure of a story to figure out what went right and what went wrong so it's much easier to lash out at something more obvious and "tangible" that rubs them the wrong way. That, as I see it, is why people say they hate Jar Jar so much.

Does it make sense now?

Jonna
07-10-2002, 04:59 PM
I think that you are the only one arguing about it being a good or bad script. The rest of us said nothing about that. I believe that we were against was your statement about Jar Jar having no purpose.

stillakid
07-10-2002, 05:12 PM
Yes, I see what you're getting at, except that you can't look at an issue like character purpose without also looking at everything else at the same time. Jar Jar doesn't exist in a vaccuum.


Originally posted by stillakid
I wouldn't have minded him so much if his character actually had a purpose in the story (TPM). He was the link to get Amidala together with the Naboo, but that was a fairly useless exercise as our heroes would have been able to sneak into the palace in any circumstance.

Okay, he has a "purpose," but that purpose is suspect as the reason for it (to get the heroes across the planet in a timely manner) is highly suspect from the start.

1) The only reason GL put the heroes on the other side of the planet is so that they could meet Jar Jar.

2) The only reason to include Jar Jar into the plot is so that the Gungan army could draw the Federation army away from the palace.

The problem with Part II of that is that we never saw the danger in the city and actually we witnessed just how unoccupied the city was when Qui, Obi, and Jar snuck in to steal the Queen and whisk her away. So backtracking, the ultimate reason for Jar Jar to be in the story is contrived because the heroes could have easily snuck into the Palace at the end with or without the clumsy one.

Needles
07-10-2002, 05:20 PM
what I ment in my post is that they had no time too waste showing people dying and being executed,its common sense,The droids are dreadful

JediTricks
07-11-2002, 01:50 AM
I merged these 2 threads since they were the same question.

BTW, here's what my take was last month:

As to answer this thread's question, I don't hate Jar Jar, but I don't like him either. I hate how he was used in Ep 1 with the constant taking away of his dignity for cheap laughs and the lack of character depth he shows (except when he is speaking with Amidala in private on Coruscant); and on a different level, I think his voice is far too cartoony, especially in comparison to the more noble-sounding Gungan characters we meet later on.

JON9000
07-14-2002, 05:02 PM
ATTENTION JAR JAR HATERS!

We have a stoic queen, a stoic chief of security, and 2 stoic Jedi- see where I'm going? The movie needed some kind of relief. I agree that the scatological humor- poo stepping and the like- could have been left out. Jar Jar may not have been the best answer, but something had to be done!

MFH
07-14-2002, 06:49 PM
Poor JarJar is just a scapegoat for all the other problems with this movie.

JediTricks
07-17-2002, 02:34 AM
Originally posted by JON9000
We have a stoic queen, a stoic chief of security, and 2 stoic Jedi- see where I'm going? The movie needed some kind of relief. I agree that the scatological humor- poo stepping and the like- could have been left out. Jar Jar may not have been the best answer, but something had to be done! Hmm, instead of Jar Jar, they could have done something like have C-3PO be a part of the queen's entourage and meet R2 during the mad dash off the planet and have to translate for him or something. It's the entire point of the character in the first film beyond the "Hidden Fortress" reference.

Lobito
07-17-2002, 02:07 PM
I dont hate Jar Jar, i dont compare him with Chewie becuase they are just different. Need i say that i love TPM????:D

Jacen Solo
07-18-2002, 02:28 PM
Jar Jar wasn't that bad, mesa tinks people just need something to complain about.

Capitan_Moroni
07-20-2002, 05:05 PM
~in his best Comic Book guy voice~

"Oh Jar Jar. Everyone hates you but me."