PDA

View Full Version : Leia's Torture



stillakid
05-06-2002, 12:08 PM
So, as part of my continuing prep for Ep II, I am in the middle of my film festival at home and just finished watching ESB.

We first see C-3PO getting blown into pieces. Then Solo gets fried on the torture rack. And Chewy's sensitive hearing is compromised.

I got to wondering, what did they do to Leia? Did she get beat up? No visible marks on her anywhere. Did she get emotionally tortured? No lasting fatigue. Rape? The clothes are intact.

Thoughts?

icatch9
05-06-2002, 02:00 PM
They didn't do anything to Liea. Solo wasn't tortured he was prepped for the carbonate. It was painful, but it was just a test run. Remember the only reason why Solo was frozen is to make sure it was safe for the Emperors Prize (Luke Skywalker). A reason why Chewy may have been tortured is because of the Empires racism. They do not like other species. Or it was just a noise that happened all the time, and Chewy didn't like it.

Pendo
05-06-2002, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by icatch9
Solo wasn't tortured he was prepped for the carbonate. It was painful, but it was just a test run. Remember the only reason why Solo was frozen is to make sure it was safe for the Emperors Prize (Luke Skywalker).

I always thought Solo was being tortured, to see if he would spill any information. If that was to prepare him for the carbonite than why don't they need to prepare Luke for the carbonite? If they were going to test it properly for Luke then they wouldn't prepare Han for it, because they can't exactly do that to him can they?
Anyway, whatever they were doing it looked painful.

About Leia's torture, I seen a picturre somewhere once of Vader levitating her as part of her torture. I can't remember it all. I will try and find the info and pic for ya.

PENDO!

Pendo
05-06-2002, 02:13 PM
Here's (http://www.cinescape.com/starwars/editorial.asp?aff_id=24&this_cat=Cut+Scenes+Archive&action=page&obj_id=30523) something from Cinescape (http://www.cinescape.com/starwars) that might be helpful.

PENDO!

Dryanta
05-06-2002, 02:29 PM
I thought Han and Chewie were tortured so Luke good sense it and want to go and help them.That's what I thought the point was.Maybe Hans torture was Leia's too.If she loved him seeing him go through that maybe was all they needed to do to her.

El Chuxter
05-06-2002, 03:01 PM
Excellent insight, Dryanta! Hadn't thought of that.

I also think it may have something to do with her being tortured on the Death Star and revealing nothing. So who do they focus the torture on? Two former smugglers whose ties to the Rebellion are believed to be tenuous at best, and who haven't been subjugated to Imperial interrogation.

That and, well, the droid was blown up and Vader wanted his ol' childhood buddy put back together unharmed so he could provide comic relief for years to come. :D

2-1B
05-06-2002, 04:31 PM
King's to Dryanta for the insight! :)

I always saw Han's torture as punitive, not coercive since "they didn't even ask him any questions." Even if Vader was doing it to lure Luke, he was still mighty upset over Han's role in foiling his plans. :D

DarkArtist
05-06-2002, 06:14 PM
Accroding to the books and the Radio Drama Han was actually being tortured for information about the Rebels.
In the Radio Drama Lando says to Fett that Torture was never a part of the bargain between Lando and Vader.

LTBasker
05-06-2002, 06:24 PM
This reminds of an episode of Get Smart:

Croanie: Torture?
Head boss: No, no torture
[the head boss is killed]
Same Croanie: Torture?
New head boss: No, no torture.
[the new head boss is killed]
Croanie/Newest head boss: Now we have torture.


I always thought that scene with Han was just torturing him for the heck of it for all his evading...and blasting Vader in ANH... not too mention the blasting his hand before..hand... :D

stillakid
05-06-2002, 11:50 PM
Originally posted by icatch9
They didn't do anything to Liea. Solo wasn't tortured he was prepped for the carbonate. It was painful, but it was just a test run.

That's not right. Solo got the rack before Vader was warned about the Carbonite.


Originally posted by icatch9

Remember the only reason why Solo was frozen is to make sure it was safe for the Emperors Prize (Luke Skywalker).

That's correct.


Originally posted by icatch9

A reason why Chewy may have been tortured is because of the Empires racism. They do not like other species. Or it was just a noise that happened all the time, and Chewy didn't like it.

The idea that I've always run with is that they were being tortured without obvious cause. Vader "knew" that Luke would "sense" the pain of his friends and run to their rescue.

C-3PO was just an unfortunate accident and who knows if Luke's Midichlorians :rolleyes: could have picked up on the droids problems anyway.

Han was given a lot of physical pain and Chewy was driven to "insanity." Leia just came off as "worried" or something.


Originally posted by Dryanta

I thought Han and Chewie were tortured so Luke good sense it and want to go and help them.That's what I thought the point was.Maybe Hans torture was Leia's too.If she loved him seeing him go through that maybe was all they needed to do to her.

That works only if Vader knew that Leia and Han had something going. But there was no reason for anyone to really expect it, especially someone outside their close circle of acquaintances back at the Rebellion. Plausible, but I'm not sure about that.


Originally posted by El Chuxter

Excellent insight, Dryanta! Hadn't thought of that.

I also think it may have something to do with her being tortured on the Death Star and revealing nothing. So who do they focus the torture on? Two former smugglers whose ties to the Rebellion are believed to be tenuous at best, and who haven't been subjugated to Imperial interrogation.

But it wasn't about "questions" or getting information. Pure torture to lure Luke into the trap.


So, the question remains, what, if anything, did they do to Leia?

2-1B
05-07-2002, 12:00 AM
It is possible that Vader could sense the love between the two of them. Maybe he was jealous of their bond? ;)
One weakness of the heroes is that they care for each other, so that did give Darth some leverage.

stillakid
05-07-2002, 12:11 AM
Originally posted by Caesar
It is possible that Vader could sense the love between the two of them. Maybe he was jealous of their bond? ;)
One weakness of the heroes is that they care for each other, so that did give Darth some leverage.


True. Maybe. But why not beat the snot out of Leia (figuratively, of course) like they were doing to Han and Chewy? It would work if Leia was there in the room watching Han get fried, but she's not.

Chewy is in the drunk-tank with 3PO. Then they toss Han's battered body in there. And then Leia gets tossed in. She came from somewhere. The question is, where and what were they doing to her? Feeding her Rice Cakes til she puked? Making her watch reruns of ALICE? Making her watch Vader feed himself with a straw?

bigbarada
05-07-2002, 04:12 AM
They made her change her clothes!:)

TeeEye7
05-07-2002, 06:58 AM
....and her hairstyle! ;)

Dryanta
05-07-2002, 10:27 AM
hey Guys,
I have been thinking about this some more.I really do think Han being tortured was Leia's,and Chewie's torture as well.
The way I see it comes from experiences I've had.When a loved one maybe hurting or even dying the worst part is not knowing.Much like an emergency room room full of family members or friends,loved ones.There is no peace to be had not really knowing either if it'll be alright or not.Vader may have been present with Han to "amplify" the emotions.Chewie's sound torture may have been another way of adding even more frustration to his emotional state.Hence "amplifying" his emotions and fear.Lock him in a room and then tick him off.To dangerous to do it any other way.Remember Chewie starts chucking Storm troopers in the freeze chamber and only Hans request to look after Leia calms him.
I think Vader would be more than able to sense the love Leia has for Han.He sensed lukes for her.Even to the point of in a moment of weakness he sensed she was his sister.
Leia may very well have been simply placed in an isolated room to stew on what might be happening.If so that would be pretty boring to watch.Not meant as sexist in any way but a woman doesn't need to have emotional amplification.They are much better able to project their emotions than males.
I also think that this is why Vader chose to take Chewie and Leia with him instead of leaving them on Bespin.Just in case Luke didn't get the message,Vader could try again later in a more "direct way" with Leia.
And lastly I think Vader's torture of Han turned out to be a "happier" occation for Vader because of the trouble Han had caused.Just my thought on it

stillakid
05-07-2002, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by Dryanta
hey Guys,
I have been thinking about this some more.I really do think Han being tortured was Leia's,and Chewie's torture as well.
The way I see it comes from experiences I've had.When a loved one maybe hurting or even dying the worst part is not knowing.Much like an emergency room room full of family members or friends,loved ones.There is no peace to be had not really knowing either if it'll be alright or not.Vader may have been present with Han to "amplify" the emotions.Chewie's sound torture may have been another way of adding even more frustration to his emotional state.Hence "amplifying" his emotions and fear.Lock him in a room and then tick him off.To dangerous to do it any other way.Remember Chewie starts chucking Storm troopers in the freeze chamber and only Hans request to look after Leia calms him.
I think Vader would be more than able to sense the love Leia has for Han.He sensed lukes for her.Even to the point of in a moment of weakness he sensed she was his sister.
Leia may very well have been simply placed in an isolated room to stew on what might be happening.If so that would be pretty boring to watch.Not meant as sexist in any way but a woman doesn't need to have emotional amplification.They are much better able to project their emotions than males.
I also think that this is why Vader chose to take Chewie and Leia with him instead of leaving them on Bespin.Just in case Luke didn't get the message,Vader could try again later in a more "direct way" with Leia.
And lastly I think Vader's torture of Han turned out to be a "happier" occation for Vader because of the trouble Han had caused.Just my thought on it


I think that you're right about the personal vendetta. Through the grapevine, Vader would have heard who piloted the Falcon and who fired the winning shot in ANH.

The love thing...maybe. It is plausible. But Lucas being the visualist, and a storyteller without a whole lot of depth, placed the heroes in obvious "torture" circumstances. It seems more likely that Leia would have been put through something more "filmic" as well. Maybe he never thought of anything or did and cut it because it was a little too "raw" to see the Empire beating up on a chick or something. I just thought that maybe one of the Expanded Universe guys would have some insight or maybe there is an old interview somewhere that alludes to this. Oh well.

El Chuxter
05-07-2002, 03:13 PM
D'oh! I forgot all about the line about not asking Han any questions. Here's a BSLOS offered in atonement:

"Big girls, they don't CRY-YIII-YIII
They don't cry
My girl said good-BYE-YIII-YIII
My oh my!"

saladin
05-07-2002, 03:47 PM
vdeould se leia didn't like any of her friends getting hurt so he hurt them to touture her.

stillakid
05-07-2002, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by saladin
vdeould se leia didn't like any of her friends getting hurt so he hurt them to touture her.

Why doesn't that logic apply backwards? Wouldn't Han and the audience feel worse watching Vader torture a beautiful woman? If that's the reason, then it would have been far far more effective as a storytelling tool to have Han watch Leia get the whips or raped or something. The utter brutality of Vader's wrath would not be questioned.

Sith Lord 0498
05-07-2002, 05:09 PM
Whipped?? Raped????!! C'mon, this is still a PG rated movie. And would anyone actually want to see images like that in a Star Wars film??? I know I certainly wouldn't.

stillakid
05-07-2002, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by Sith Lord 0498
Whipped?? Raped????!! C'mon, this is still a PG rated movie. And would anyone actually want to see images like that in a Star Wars film??? I know I certainly wouldn't.

I wrote that knowing it was overboard for Star Wars, but the idea is there. Did GL not show Leia's torture just because the audience would be squeemish about watching a chick get "hurt" in some way?

Dryanta
05-07-2002, 05:52 PM
If Leia was tortured she didn't seem to show any physical ill effects from it.I do think that it may have been to avoid any potential backlash from the audience.
I also think that one of the reasons Vader picked Han is because of the trouble he had caused him.I guess we'll never know for sure either way

LTBasker
05-07-2002, 06:41 PM
Maybe they had her go under the interrogator droid like in ANH and that could be another why Vader wanted to keep her because she knew more than he thought she would.

I doubt she would've really gotten raped, I mean I'm sure Vader would've wanted to do it himself to hurt Han more (remember, he didn't know it was his daughter at that time so...) but have you seen what his armor consists of? I doubt he would've wanted to give any of his troopers a "special treat" like that just to hurt Han.

Another thing about the sound with Chewie, maybe it was an alarm to tick off Chewie so he wouldn't try to take out the few Guards that were probably there taking Han and Leia to the cells? We really didn't see him getting into the fight between Han & Lando by taking out the Guards so they couldn't get Han did we? (I haven't seen it in awhile... :( ) so quite possibly that could've been what the sound was for.

As for Han's torture, I think Vader just wanted to see him suffer before he gave him to Boba Fett in carbonite to take to Jabba.

RooJay
05-14-2002, 11:05 PM
I think a better question would be:
Why was Vader after Han in the first place when he really wanted Luke?
Why not hire the bounty hunters to track down and capture Luke?

Fulit
05-14-2002, 11:33 PM
They need to make a figure of Han tied to the rack so I can torture him myself in retribution for Harrison Ford's performance in ROTJ. Yeesh. j/k A Han Solo Bespin Torture figure would be cool, though, so long as they didn't follow it w/ a rescuplt of Chewie w/ his hands over his ears and call it the Chewbacca Bespin Torture figure.

I remember reading somewhere that Vader used a scanning grid to torture Han. That's what it was called. A scanning grid. The scanning grid should come with this figure that they are probably not going to make.

stillakid
05-15-2002, 12:24 AM
Originally posted by RooJay
I think a better question would be:
Why was Vader after Han in the first place when he really wanted Luke?
Why not hire the bounty hunters to track down and capture Luke?


Hmm. Well, since they were hot on the trail of the Falcon, perhaps he figured they had a better shot at finding Solo. They had absolutely no idea where Luke was and it's a BIG galaxy. Plus, Vader maybe figured that Luke, being chock full o' Midichlorians, could best any bounty hunter that came after him. The best way to "capture" Luke would be to draw him into a trap.

RooJay
05-15-2002, 12:43 AM
I could see that. IF you subscribe to the idea of midichlorians.

RooJay
05-15-2002, 12:46 AM
That's assuming Vader also knew of the connection between Luke, Leia, and Han. We certainly didn't see him gain that knowledge on screen so it couldn't have been possible, right?:rolleyes:

stillakid
05-15-2002, 12:47 AM
Originally posted by RooJay
I could see that. IF you subscribe to the idea of midichlorians.

and you know how I feel about them.;)


But, regardless of that, Vader assumes that Luke is "strong with the Force" in some way, so he might also assume that the boy couldn't be taken by conventional means. Only "another" Jedi would be capable of trapping him.

stillakid
05-15-2002, 12:50 AM
Originally posted by RooJay
That's assuming Vader also knew of the connection between Luke, Leia, and Han. We certainly didn't see him gain that knowledge on screen so it couldn't have been possible, right?:rolleyes:


True, it wasn't on screen so there is no way to know for sure. But offscreen spies may be the avenue that Vader found out the identity of the guy that blew up the Death Star and concurrently may be the way he finds out about the friendship. All conjecture, for sure. Then again, Vader did get a slight glimpse of the heroes boarding the Falcon just before the blast doors closed. :confused:

RooJay
05-15-2002, 12:52 AM
So like I said...why didn't he just trap him?
Vader couldn't have felt Luke in his X-Wing through the Force and had him tracked, or tracked Luke himself through the Force? Of course you know that none of this really matters to me. Just trying to illustrate a point.

stillakid
05-15-2002, 12:54 AM
The limitations and abilities of the Force ebb and flow with the needs of the plot. Who knows? Only George I guess. :)

RooJay
05-15-2002, 12:55 AM
There are indeed a lot of things that may have happened off-screen, but not everyone is willing to admit to that.

bigbarada
05-15-2002, 12:55 AM
I think showing Vader focusing his torture on Leia would kind of weaken him in the mind of the audience. Having a large male character tie up and torture a female character would make that male seem like a coward. Even in this day and age, a man who brutalizes a woman is seen as cowardly. George Lucas and Irvin Kershner both knew this would be the perception so they focused the torture sequence on Han, which would keep Vader's quasi-heroic nature (which George was grooming for ROTJ) in tact.

Not convinced that GL was prepping Vader for his redemption as far back as ESB? Think of this: how many Rebels did Vader personally kill? None. How many Imperials did Vader personally kill? 2 Officers and countless troops on the Star Destroyers he forced to stay in the asteroid field. He was a bigger asset to the Rebellion than anyone else!

stillakid
05-15-2002, 01:02 AM
Originally posted by bigbarada
I think showing Vader focusing his torture on Leia would kind of weaken him in the mind of the audience. Having a large male character tie up and torture a female character would make that male seem like a coward. Even in this day and age, a man who brutalizes a woman is seen as cowardly. George Lucas and Irvin Kershner both knew this would be the perception so they focused the torture sequence on Han, which would keep Vader's quasi-heroic nature (which George was grooming for ROTJ) in tact.

Not convinced that GL was prepping Vader for his redemption as far back as ESB? Think of this: how many Rebels did Vader personally kill? None. How many Imperials did Vader personally kill? 2 Officers and countless troops on the Star Destroyers he forced to stay in the asteroid field. He was a bigger asset to the Rebellion than anyone else!


I couldn't agree with you more! :)

I only offered up the question to see if anyone had any idea what might have happened to her. Sometimes in interviews, cut scenes, novelizations, comic books, or Expanded Universe material those kinds of details pop out. This might make a good "what if" comic book some day.

bigbarada
05-15-2002, 01:17 AM
In that case, according to the annotated screenplay for ESB:

In the second draft when Lando takes the group to the dining hall and betrays them to Vader.... they eat diner, Vader tells them he's not interested in them and he only want Luke and they all go back to their quarters. Really. :stupid:

In the third draft, he not only has dinner with them; but threatens them as well. :eek:

It wasn't until the final draft that Han's torture scene was conceived and even then much of it was cut out because Kirshner thought it might be too intense for kids.

There is no mention of Leia being tortured anywhere so I assume it may have never been considered. Although in the second draft an alien tries to buy Chewie after his capture but decides against it because Chewie is too rowdy.

atomicmaniac
05-15-2002, 10:06 AM
First, Vader personaly killed Captain Antilles in ANH, he crushed his neck. Also Vader had no way of finding Luke with out Han and Liea because Luke had fled to the Dagobah system and if Vader could find Luke there he could certainly have found Yoda there a long time ago and killed. Also, Vader had no way of knowing how progressed Lukes force abilities were so I am not sure he would torture Han in order to "draw out" Luke by letting him sense his pain.

stillakid
05-15-2002, 10:13 AM
Originally posted by atomicmaniac
Also, Vader had no way of knowing how progressed Lukes force abilities were so I am not sure he would torture Han in order to "draw out" Luke by letting him sense his pain.


Ahhhh, huh?:confused: That's exactly how he did it and why. Vader and the Emperor both knew of Luke's power (and potential) so Vader's plan to hurt his friends was valid.

However, even if you didn't want to believe that, well, you'd have to because there is no other way for Luke to know where his friends were. Nobody knew. It's not like the Empire sent out a memo to the galaxy announcing the torture of the Rebels on Cloud City. Vader knew that hurting Luke's friends would "send" a message "across the cosmos" to Luke and that would draw the boy into the trap.

2-1B
05-15-2002, 12:15 PM
Yep, Luke saw a city in the clouds where his friends were in pain.
And Vader was delighted when Skywalker showed up. Not surprised, just delighted his plan was working. :)

Sith Lord 0498
05-15-2002, 01:15 PM
And don't forget this sequence either:

LEIA: "Vader wants us all dead."

LANDO: "He doesn't want you at all. He's after someone called...uh...Skywalker."

HAN: "Luke..."

LANDO: "Lord Vader set a trap for him."

LEIA: "And we're the bait!"

LANDO: "Yeah, well he's on his way."

Clearly Vader knew Luke could sense his friends' anguish. If he was setting a trap, it was the only way to draw Luke there. Like it's been said, he didn't send out a memo.

bigbarada
05-15-2002, 01:43 PM
Vader didn't "find" Luke on Dagobah, unless you were somehow thinking that was really him when Luke cut his head off?:stupid: No, Vader had no idea were Luke was at all, thus he decided to torture his friends in order to draw Luke out from his hiding place. Vader had absolutely no knowledge of Yoda, which is why he kept telling Luke in ROTJ, "Obi-Wan has taught you well." Either he assumed that Obi-Wan was somehow training Luke from beyond the grave or that he had fully trained Luke before his death.

Besides from the looks of Ep2, I don't think Vader could've killed Yoda anyway.

Jonna
05-15-2002, 01:52 PM
Just remember that the conversation between Han and Leia in the cell. It goes something like this:

Leia: "Why are they doing this"
Han: "They didn't even ask me any questions"

They didn't ask any questions because they were not even interested in Han.

atomicmaniac
05-15-2002, 03:51 PM
I see yout point, but what I meant by Vader not knowing the abilities of Luke was that he did not know current adeptness with the force, he of course new of Lukes potential but he knew that along before Luke could really "use" teh force to any large degree. I will concede that it could be that same natural force "strength" that allowed Luke to sing the shot in the Death Star that also would allow to sense the pain of his friends. Vader, I suppose would count on this and thus send out the "pain signal" of Hans torture to Luke where ever he may be.

stillakid
05-15-2002, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by atomicmaniac
I see yout point, but what I meant by Vader not knowing the abilities of Luke was that he did not know current adeptness with the force,

That's right. Vader even says so in ROTJ on the gantry. His line, "Indeed you are powerful as the Emperor has foreseen" not only reveals Vader's own surprise at how far along Luke has come, but on a different level reveals his dismay at the possiblity that Luke might really be "taken" by the Emperor. Vader wrestles with the terrible options of either sparing Luke his own torture by killing him, or obeying the Emperor and watching his son fall. Luke's own inner strength and maturity (with no help from those ridiculous Midichlorians) help him be strong against the Emperor and resist him. Vader sees this, and after a momentary bit of soul searching, realizes that there weren't only two options (Luke turning, Luke dying), but that there is a third. And that is what he does and in doing so, finds redemption. Luke: "I've got to save you." Anakin: "You already have Luke. You were right. You were right about me. Tell your sister, you were right."

Well, that's what the story is for now until Lucas obliterates it with more continuity ruining adaptations.

scruffziller
06-13-2002, 12:54 AM
DOn't forget the interrogation droid and being stuck with that needle!!!!!!!!!!

darthvyn
06-13-2002, 06:39 PM
leia's torture was that they showed her a bunch of cocaine, but wouldn't let her have it...

kidding, but 3p0 was blown apart because he ran into the hiding imperials ("stormtroopers? here? i've got to warn everyone... oh, no i've been shot!")

han and chewie were obviously tortured without any questions asked to make tremors in the force, so luke would see his friends in the city in the clouds, who are in pain. it's likely that leia faced the same rack as han, just that two people getting the same thing done to them is redundant, so showing one would suffice.

maybe they made her play monkey in the middle... vader's really tall, and she's pretty short. she'd never get the ball. that's torture!

stillakid
06-13-2002, 09:12 PM
Originally posted by darthvyn
it's likely that leia faced the same rack as han, just that two people getting the same thing done to them is redundant, so showing one would suffice.


Yeah, but her shirt wasn't ripped open like Han's. It's too bad we didn't get to see her rack...er, um...her torture device. :D

darthvyn
06-17-2002, 02:51 AM
uh, oh, getting into closed thread territory... shhh, don't tell anyone...

Tycho
06-18-2002, 04:18 AM
I think you've covered this pretty well. If anyone wants to discuss what Jabba did to Leia, that's a little more expanded on in the books.

As to what BigBarada said, I want to take issue for a sec.

1) I don't advocate beating women or anyone physically weaker than you - especially if they didn't pick the fight with you, or you're holding them prisoner etc. (as in the ESB situation).

2) But it is not cowardly. That word seems inappropriate. It IS definitely cruel and possibly evil, if that is the right word. But a brave man who saved his men stroming the beach at Normandy could beat his wife. He is not a coward for his actions in the military, and he is also not even a coward for beating his wife. Someone who's never beaten anyone, especially a worthy opponent, is a coward for picking on the weak. Meanwhile, someone who is not a coward (in duty and other action) is also not a coward to do somethings that are evil, because it requires them to shed off their inhibitions to doing something they know is wrong. Maybe I am a good person. History may judge me, as might you. But I would have a huge conundrum wrestling with my consciousness were I trying to do something I know is so wrong - like beating on someone less capable of defending themselves. It would take courage to break out of my own character mold to really make myself do something evil. I think I second what Bill Maher said about the 911 terrorists. They weren't cowards when they were willing to die for their cause like that. They were religious, nutty, loonies full of despicable intent to hurt defenseless people the way they did and I wished I could still get my punches in on them for hurting my country and attacking my way of life. I do not admire them. Now I have no idea what Bill Maher was trying to say when he said they weren't cowards, but he certainly didn't explain himself too well or he might have kept his show. Meanwhile, since I think it was President Bush that first called them cowards, I think HE might have found more appropriate names to call them. Although he has a point: they attacked the defenseless. Hitting a military installation might have been more 'brave.' But they hit the USS Cole, too. And that was called a cowardly act. And you know...actually it sort of was too. The sailors were not at battlestations. Most were on shoreleave. The only thing that hints at a shred of courage in these guys is that they'd die for their ridiculous cause they're brainwashed into. That's sad.

But does a war hero who beats his wife qualify as a coward? Good question. I KNOW he qualifies for a nice jail sentence and a divorce with damages paid. As to the word usage? Good question.

Meanwhile, all women are not weak. My friend Cheryl from my Karate Studio is all kick-***. ANY target area is fair game when we train (people have different partners different days). And I've trained with Cheryl for 3 years. She is young, feminine and pretty, plus a heck of a great hairdresser, but she's a fighter too. Some very lucky guy might marry her, and in that case, he'd better be capable of beating his wife from time to time ;)

I do wish more girls were like Cheryl.

DeadEye
06-18-2002, 08:16 PM
At the part when he gets blown up...you can hear a blaster fire. Who was it that shot him? Why did he do that? Was he the person that said, "Who are you?" I always thought it was Boba Fett...C3PO spoke of stormtroopers when Chewie was fixing him...but the guy sounded nothing like a stormie. What gives?