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Bel-Cam Jos
09-11-2001, 06:56 PM
Since the first thread's getting long, maybe some of us can post just news updates here. LAX is closed until tomorrow, as well as many other airports. At this time, Pres. Bush is heading back to Washington at the White House. Supposedly a 6pm PST news conference will occur.

El Chuxter
09-11-2001, 07:22 PM
According to headlines at cnn.com and msnbc.com (neither of which have actual articles yet), there've been some kind of explosions in the city of Kabul (Afghanistan) The US has denied involvement, and "Afghanistan opposition" has claimed responsibility for those particular explosions.

The prime suspect is believed to be Osama bin Laden, whose group was responsible for the bombing of the US ship (the Cole?). Bin Laden is a Saudi exile thought to be in Afghanistan, who (about three weeks ago) threatened large and unprecendented attacks on "American interests" within the coming weeks.

bigbarada
09-11-2001, 07:54 PM
I heard on NBC that there were missile trails spotted over Kabul, Afghanistan. The US has denied involvment, I sincerely hope that is true.

I'm listening to the local radio station right now and everything is being shut down even school sporting events and the mall. In addition to the airport, the military posts and all but one entrance/exit to Mexico. In fact the city has double shifts of police patrolling the streets, is this happening anywhere else?

JediCole
09-11-2001, 08:28 PM
It appears that, by design or coincidence, the attacks in Kabul are the responsibility of the rebel opposition within A***anastan. There is speculation that it is in retaliation for the death of one of their generals in an attack over the weekend. It is likely that such a strike was already in the works following the weekend attack, so it could just be a coincidence that their attack occured on (in Afganastan) Wednesday morning, following our (U.S.) tragedy. It is also possible that it seemed under the circumstances, the ideal time to attack their enemies.

Lowly Bantha Cleaner
09-12-2001, 12:13 AM
I live near the Canadian border and I can tell you that cars going to and from the U.S. are backed up. It seems they are tearing apart almost every suspicious looking car. But we aren't in a state of hysteria. Things from the outside appeared to be somewhat calm and organized through all the chaos today. I have heard a fighter jet fly by our house (he was quite high) which gave me a little jolt of panic. I also shudder a bit when I hear sirens far away. You just never know what is going to happen next.

PloKoon2385
09-12-2001, 12:44 AM
It was reported that EIGHT HUNDRED people are dead in the Pentagon. TWO HUNDRED AND SIXTY SIX dead passengers in the planes. And THOUSANDS dead from the World Trade Centers. This is HORRIBLE. And, it may not be over. I am 16 and I am totally baffled by this. I will have one more thing to say to my grandchildren that I was alive when........ I was in school and noticed all the teachers convened in the Main Office all staring at the TV. Then I heard two teachers talking about it. I almost fell over. My heart, and my peers' hearts, go out to everyone who has suffered from this hate crime. But.....we will go on.:(

GNT
09-12-2001, 01:05 AM
My GOD!


I still can't believe what I saw! Oh my! :eek: This is such a tragedy! and in my opinion all involved shall die for what they have done!

GNT
09-12-2001, 02:32 AM
I have just heard that a person on the plane that crashed in Pensulvannia/pitsburg? (Sorry as I don't know who to spell them?) called his mother and said that the plane was hijacked by 3 people!!!!


3 people,Gee god!!

JediTricks
09-12-2001, 09:27 AM
Hijacked not with guns or bombs, but with knives, with KNIVES!!! Puny little stupid knives, no less, not even big knives, they gained access to the cockpits and took over controls of the plane, almost certainly flying it themselves -- this is probably how it was with all of them. After all those hijackings in the '80s, why weren't the cockpits turned into vaults that cannot be opened in flight? Why wasn't there a security system that knocked out everybody in the main cabin with sleep gas, or even just decompress the whole thing and drop oxygen masks?

Anyway, more survivors are being found in the WTC rubble, so hope is still there.

evenflow
09-12-2001, 09:31 AM
The area is in a state of turmoil. I live right by the lincoln tunnel and everything is stopped. No one can get in or out f the town i live in. There are some reports that they found a couple of vans by the tunnel that shouldn't be there. I don't know what the entire story is with that.

El Chuxter
09-12-2001, 11:45 AM
Originally posted by JediTricks
Hijacked not with guns or bombs, but with knives, with KNIVES!!! Puny little stupid knives, no less, not even big knives, they gained access to the cockpits and took over controls of the plane, almost certainly flying it themselves -- this is probably how it was with all of them.

In every other plane hijacking I've heard of, crew and passengers who fought back were killed. Everyone else had an unplanned detour to Iran and came home safely a few weeks later. That's probably what the passengers expected until the last minute.

Plus, at least one cell phone call said that the passengers were told that the terrorists had a bomb.

bigbarada
09-12-2001, 07:33 PM
I heard a report that they found a car in the airport parking lot with instruction books on how to fly commercial airliners in Arabic and other documents in Arabic. I'm a little skeptical, unless the terrorists wanted to be found out, wouldn't they have taken all this stuff with them?

I heard another saddening story from a witness talking on the radio, he said his daughter was in school when the attacks happened and the principal called for one of the boys from her class to report to his office. The kid thought he was in trouble and went apprehensively to the principal's office. When he got there the principal handed him a telephone. On the other end was his dad, who was working on the 108th floor of the second tower to be struck. He just called his son to tell him that the tower was on fire and he didn't think he would be able to make it out and that he loved him. Then the phone cut off.

.......

PloKoon2385
09-12-2001, 08:01 PM
That is horribly sad. I heard that the terrorists on the Pittsburgh one told the passengers with cell phones to call their loved ones and tell them that they were going to die. That is horrible!

Bel-Cam Jos
09-13-2001, 09:08 AM
Interesting to see the amount of speculation early on. Now it appears there may be "only" 100-200 dead at the Pentagon, instead of the 800 figure given. This is why I think any decisions need a little time before flying off the handle, just not too long of a wait.

JediTricks
09-13-2001, 09:11 AM
Originally posted by El Chuxter
In every other plane hijacking I've heard of, crew and passengers who fought back were killed. Everyone else had an unplanned detour to Iran and came home safely a few weeks later. That's probably what the passengers expected until the last minute.

Plus, at least one cell phone call said that the passengers were told that the terrorists had a bomb.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not at all condemning the hijacking victims - passengers, crewmembers, or pilots - they certainly had no idea it would go down the way it did, I'm just aghast that the FAA is still playing their new security like these are traditional terrorists with bombs that were snuck on board, but these were one of the world's first weapons invented by man. It's just shocking to me that even after this disaster, the FAA still isn't really taking it to the hoop with security measures, and certainly not fighting man's most powerful weapon, his mind. That's the worst part of all, these puny knives were just the tools of the real weapon that was struck against us, it was one sick, perverted idea that chain-reacted into the worst terrorism act on American soil.

JEDIpartner
09-13-2001, 09:32 AM
I hope we are able to find that "Sumo bin Liner" guy... even if he wasn't behind all of this... he has been responsible for other attack on humanity. I don't believe he should die... maybe just forced to watch those "Ernest" movies non-stop until he does himself in... but he needs to pay for his actions.

I think that, even if it wasn't he who did this, his capture will send the message to any other terrorist groups that we mean business and they can't go hanging their **** on America!!!

JediTricks
09-13-2001, 09:57 AM
- New York city has asked for a total of 11,000 bodybags, up 5,000 from their last request.

- 3 schoolchildren and their teacher were aboard the plane that was smashed into the Pentagon. They were taking a field trip to Los Angeles.

- The White House is saying that Air Force One and the White House itself were also targets in Tuesday's attack. The jet that flew into the Pentagon had been spotted circling Washington DC before the Pentagon hit may have chosen the Pentagon as an alternate target instead of the White House, secret service men were seen pointing at the circling jet from the White House lawn. However, the jet that crashed in Pennsylvania may have been en route to the White House or even to intercept Air Force One (which would have been the most difficult target, seeing as it's another moving plane with special systems and specially-trained pilots), though many are speculating that this one was on its way to destroy presidential retreat Camp David.

- It's strongly believed that at least some of the terrorist pilots were trained here in the US. News sources are saying that there were between 12 and 24 hijackers involved and 50 suspects involved in the planning, and the FBI has names of some of these suspects. It's believed that 2 of the hijackers crossed over from Canada to Maine, and then flew from Maine to Boston.

- Sources say the FBI has one of the hijacker pilot's brother who they strongly believe was connected with the attacks, and it is said he is cooperating with authorities.

- According to CNN, law enforcement sources say that they have intercepted several phone calls between members of Osama Bin Laden's terrorist group discussing the attack. Other sources say that AOL has turned over records of emails from the accounts of the suspected hijackers.

- Many middle east countries are preparing for an attack by the US on their soil. However, the attacks on Kabul, the capitol of Afghanistan, were executed from a guerilla faction in a civil war in that country.

- A mosque, an Islamic house of worship, in Texas was shot up last night in a cowardly act of hatred. There was nobody inside luckily, but this Muslim place of prayer is the site of a hateful attack most likely by Americans. This is what it means when we say that falling into this thinking of hatred and racist stereotyping brings those who commit these acts as no better than terrorists themselves. Many other Muslim believers, especially those of Middle-Eastern descent, here in Los Angeles have received hate e-mails and phone calls, and reports from New York have come in saying similar things.

- CNN says that several cell phone calls were made from the jets used in these attacks by the victims including one from the Newark to San Francisco jet which crashed into the Pennsylvania woods from a man, Jeremy Glick, who gave information to his family about the attacks, let them know that they had learned of what happened at the WTC, and the victims in the back of the plane had voted to attack the terrorists. That was the last his family heard from him, Glick and his 2-month-old son were both on the flight that plunged into the Pennsylvania countryside, possibly because some passengers including Glick decided to fight back and stop these terrorists.

- Wackos are all crawling out of the woodworks calling in bomb threats to all sorts of places. One was reported in the Empire State Building yesterday and another one claimed to be in the wounded, open area of the Pentagon -- both were hoaxes.

- Passengers who were unable to get on planes yesterday and resume their travels have taken to rental cars and trains. A train heading from LA to Chicago was involved in a crash in Utah today, however the crash was apparently an accident and so far, early reports have this being a MINOR incident without deaths, not a major wreck or terrorist act.

- Planes at LAX airport are moving onto the tarmac, flights will be allowed on a case-by-case basis and only flights that were originally diverted from their primary destinations will be in the air in order to get those passengers to their original destinations.

- (short personal rant) - As for Bin Laden and others who participated in this evil terrorist strike, I feel they should be captured and made to give up information about other terrorists so they are actually used AGAINST terrorism whether they want to or not.


--- Remember, most news outlets are very up-to-date media and don't always have time to check all facts and check the credibility of sources, so remember to watch every "this just in" story with the eye of mild speculation.

And please, let me remind you all that hate speech and hateful deeds against anybody, especially in the vein of vigilante revenge, should be discouraged and halted at all costs. Many fine, upstanding Americans are Middle-Eastern and/or Muslims and did not have anything to do with these attacks, most are just as outraged and disgusted by the horrifying deeds of cowardly terrorists as you are.

JEDIpartner
09-13-2001, 01:05 PM
Yo, JT! You can count on me for support for the Arabic community here in the Cleveland, OH area.

My neighbourhood is growing with a steady stream of folks who are of Arabic descent. There were reports of restaurant owners and people in other establishments who were the targets of hate crimes.

Hel-LO!!! Were these citizens flying the planes? Are they holding your neighbourhood hostage? NO! NO! NO! Are these people not just fathers, mothers, children or other family members who have decided to live in this fantastic country of ours?? Yes they are. Let's not give them a reason to feel as many of their native counterparts do. Don't put the blame on them... only in the very rare instance will you find that one in probably a million of these folks had anything to do with what happened on Tuesday. LEAVE THEM ALONE!!!! Be nice to them!!! Support them!!! Stop making complete jackasses out of yourselves. You represnt America- don't YOU tarnish this country's respectability!!!

bigbarada
09-13-2001, 01:52 PM
I heard someone at my work say they recieved an e-mail titled "Nostradamus" which lays out how Nostradamus predicted this whole incident centuries ago. I heard something like "twin giants shall fall from the sky" and the like. I checked my e-mail account and recieved nothing, did anyone else get this e-mail?

JediCole
09-13-2001, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by JediTricks

- A mosque, an Islamic house of worship, in Texas was shot up last night in a cowardly act of hatred. There was nobody inside luckily, but this Muslim place of prayer is the site of a hateful attack most likely by Americans. This is what it means when we say that falling into this thinking of hatred and racist stereotyping brings those who commit these acts as no better than terrorists themselves. Many other Muslim believers, especially those of Middle-Eastern descent, here in Los Angeles have received hate e-mails and phone calls, and reports from New York have come in saying similar things.


And please, let me remind you all that hate speech and hateful deeds against anybody, especially in the vein of vigilante revenge, should be discouraged and halted at all costs. Many fine, upstanding Americans are Middle-Eastern and/or Muslims and did not have anything to do with these attacks, most are just as outraged and disgusted by the horrifying deeds of cowardly terrorists as you are.
I want to commend both Jedi Tricks who I quote here, and indeed all in the Sir Steve's community for the outpouring of support, information, and, above all, intelligent discourse on this tragic chain of events. I checked in on these forums all day Tuesday and as you can see, posted my thoughts quite often. That evening after work I compared the thoughts and feelings expressed here with those elsewhere and found that we in the Sir Steve's forums have our heads on a lot straighter than most people out there. It does us all credit, especially since we are in a fringe that is often refered to as geeks.

Now I would like to address the reports of a mosque being attacked in Texas. In fact two Islamic buildings were thusly attacked by cowards feeling that they were somehow achieving retribution for the crimes of the terrorists. One of the incidents occured in Irving, TX, a suburb of Dallas that is not far from my home. As much as it pains me to say this, I feel that those responsible for such actions are actually worse than the terrorsits. They have, in the name of patriotism and vindication become terrorists themselves, though they would never be convinced of as much. Shall we answer random acts of cowardace in kind? What really was achieved by such actions? Nothing but to justify the acts of the terrorists and feed the perception by their peers that their actions against the U.S. were correct. We become not as bad, but worse than those who did this when we succumb to such a course of action. I am going on record as condemning the actions of all who seek to right the tragedy of Tuesday through randomly attacking those of Islamic decent with disdain equal to that I feel for the terrorists. The true enemies will be revealed in time, do not seek to create new ones in their stead.

El Chuxter
09-13-2001, 02:41 PM
bigbarada, I haven't received it, but a co-worker did and was telling us about it. I don't buy it for a moment, and put it in the same league as the supposed cash reward for forwarding the fictitious "e-mail tracking system" by AOL and Intel. She forwarded it on, adding a comment about the rescheduling of the Madonna concert (something like "She who bears the name of the mother of our Lord shalt not sing on Monday, but on the following day of Saturn"). I found her "joke" in extremely poor taste (in fact, I find most of her actions in poor taste, but that's another story), but it goes to show how easy it is to lie through e-mail.

JEDIpartner
09-13-2001, 02:47 PM
Hey El Chuxter!!!

The Nostradamus e-mail is a hoax...:mad: someone put a bunch of his text together and made it all up to suit their silly whim. I will post a thing on here as soon as I can find it again.

Obi-Dan Kenobi
09-13-2001, 04:19 PM
Actually, the bulk of the quoet isn't even really from Nostradamus. And Nostradamus was full of poo.



http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/predict.htm

This sight has some great stuff on it, including info on that "obscene" C-3PO trading card. (It does LOOK obscene, doesn't it?)

bigbarada
09-13-2001, 05:29 PM
Thanks Obi-Dan Kenobi! I can see now actually reading it myself how it is totally bogus. However this guy I worked with was totally convinced it was real and that the end of the world is near. Oh well, as the movie "The Messenger" said, "You know how simple people are. Always ready to believe any old prophecy."

About the mosque being attacked in TX, while I hardly find it shocking (I've seen just how prejudice still has a strong foothold in many parts of this country. Not just Texas, but everywhere.) I am angered that these perpetrators have allowed the terrorists to win. Once we begin to turn on each other then we've lost all hope.

El Chuxter
09-13-2001, 05:53 PM
If anyone is still awaiting word on loved ones, msnbc.com has a listing of contact numbers at the following url:
http://www.msnbc.com/news/627095_asp.htm?0cm=c30

Sean the Hutt
09-13-2001, 08:24 PM
God Bless America. I Know the Star Wars community here and around the world will support what needs to be done in the coming months and years. It really puts the whole collecting thing in perspective. I really don't need any of this stuff and it seems about as important as a 2 cent stamp these days. Do not fere Islam, or any religion. These are just the tools seriously disturbed people use and hide behind. My sorrow goes out to the people of New York, and to the free world. Now let's unite and do what needs to be done!

bigbarada
09-13-2001, 09:49 PM
washingtonpost.com is reporting that the Pentagon plans to begin calling up Reservists to active duty within the next few days. It's supposed to be the start of a much larger military campaign.

Jargo
09-13-2001, 10:11 PM
Much as I wish to see the perpetrators brought to book for this atrocity, war is not the answer. I hang my head in shame that i belong to the human race. What have we all become that we destroy each other so easily and so swiftly? And still the arrogance that brought this attack upon you. I fear that you have not learned a single thing in these tragic few days. In the name of one god you will destroy those who attacked you in the name of theirs, and this is progress? What have we all become.............

bigbarada
09-13-2001, 10:20 PM
Trust me, no one is more disturbed at the idea of a full scale conflict than me. I have only six months left on my Army contract. I was really looking forward to going home. Now because of this I'll be forced to stay in until this conflict is resolved. I don't want to go to war, I'll admit that; it's the last thing I want to do right now. However if this will bring an end to this madness so that the world will never have to worry about terrorism from these people again, then I will go.

Reluctantly, I'll try to do my duty to make the world a safe place and hope that my actions will make a difference in the grand scheme of things.

Jargo
09-13-2001, 10:37 PM
vain hope that the destructon of these terrorists will mean no more of the same. Your country has many enemies around the world, fanatical zealots or not. to assume that this insanity can be ended by a conflict in the middle east is pure lunacy. War and conflict do not resolve a damn thing. I've lived with the fear of terrorist attack from Northern Ireland nearly all my life. it is something that you learn to live with. Look how the 'peacekeeping' forces have fared in Northern ireland. How many years has that struggle been going on with no end? America is a naive country that thinks it has the smarts. A knee jerk reaction now will bring down so much suffering on the American people. There are alternatives to war. But no-one wants that in your country do they? Seems everyone will follow Bush like the followers of Osama bin Laden follow him. The President has too much power. And that is the scariest thing.

Obi-Dan Kenobi
09-13-2001, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by bigbarada
However this guy I worked with was totally convinced it was real and that the end of the world is near. Oh well, as the movie "The Messenger" said, "You know how simple people are. Always ready to believe any old prophecy."


The thing that's great about that page is it shows how easy it is to write something that sounds like Nostradamus! I actually read a bit of his stuff in my first year of college. It's so broad and hard to understand (I'm sure something gets lost in the translation to English). Because it's so broad, and the quatrains don't seem to follow a chronological order, you really can make it sound like almost anything.

Hearing about survivors being pulled from the wreckage today made me feel good. It's amazing to me that they lived, and held on for two days like that. Let's hope there's more.:)

bigbarada
09-13-2001, 11:04 PM
Jargo, your talking to me like I actually decided to go to war with these countries. I want nothing to do with this conflict, because in the end there will be another terrorist group who will take over were bin Laden left off. I just wanted to express my hope that if we do get involved in a destructive conflict then hopefully it at least results in bin Laden and his followers being neutralized. I'm fully aware that he's not the only terrorist organization on the planet. However, I must follow my orders, if for no other reason than desertion in a time of war could be punishable by death. I remember hearing a quote from Babylon 5 saying, "The avalanche has started, the pebbles can no longer vote." I'm just a pebble in all this. There are massive wheels in motion as we speak and the fate of the world is being decided for us.

stillakid
09-13-2001, 11:27 PM
Jargo, no one wants to go to war, but it wasn't us that rammed three passenger jets into buildings. They started it. Period. If those lunatics actually have some kind of reasonable goal to achieve, any reasonable person would have been able to see that something of this magnitude would be counter productive to achieving it. Clearly, this people are neither reasonable nor to be reasoned with. They may seem intelligent, but any intelligent being would have foreseen the world community backing us up. They are the ones instigating the conflict. They are bringing this upon themselves. You couldn't possibly sit back and imply that we should too? You think these "people" should just get away with it this time? Be loose to do it again?! That's almost as insane as what they're up to. While we're at it, why not just open up those vials of the Black Plague. I mean, you know, why perpertrate violence on an organism? There'll be more to come. Cancer, AIDS, etc. Why bother stopping one when more are coming down the road? Is that what you're getting at? That is insane.

Yes there are alternatives to war, but the world is waiting for that wisdom. It's easy to say, but what are your ideas? We've tried diplomacy with the guy. We've tried keeping tabs on his activities ourselves. The Afghan gvnt even claimed that they would keep him under control. Boy, all those "alternatives" have really worked out well. Just how many more people have to die before it'll be okay to go in and wipe him off the face of the planet? Another 10,000? Will that be enough? For god sakes, 1 should be the limit before a "human" gets the boot.

Nobody wants a war. We've all got our lives that we're living, peacefully, with friends and family. Going to work, coming home, engaging in our favorite hobbies and pasttimes. These are the evil things that we are being "punished" for. They hate us because those things are evil to them. Anyone out there feel free to explain how that could be. Never mind. I'll answer it -- because they are fanatical zealots using religion as an excuse to hate and commit violence. That's why they exist... to hate. That's why we must destroy them.

Jedi Clint
09-14-2001, 01:15 AM
Nothing was done about the attack on the U.S.S. Cole. Doing nothing is not an option. We are lucky to have rubble to sift through for survivors. Anyone who would use commercial planes as weapons of mass destruction, would not think twice about setting off a nuke on American soil, or using biological or chemical warfare. They must be stopped. They set the bar very high with this mission in their holy war. Should we wait and see if their next attack destroys 6 buildings, or if they decide to take out an entire city, or worse?

I am not saying that we attack them in haste. Let us gather massive amounts of intelligence on their location, their hiding places, the depth of their organization(s), their resources, and their supporters. When we are satisfied that they have nowhere to run, nowhere to hide, and no one willing to support them at cost of being associated with them. At that point (and not one second later) we should wipe out their organization, and its supporters in their entirety.

The rules have changed. Traveling by plane will never be the same. Immigration will never be the same. Our very sense of national security has changed. Those are just a few obvious examples of things that changed on September 11th. Feel free to add to this list.

A formal declaration of war is irrelevant. The lunatics that destroyed the twin towers are the instigators of this insanity. We are a part of it whether we like it or not. We can't bury our heads in the sand and pretend it didn't happen, or that it won't happen again. A holy war has been declared in the mid-east and their goal is the annihilation of the United States, and it's allies.

Nothing about this gives me any kind of pleasure. My mind conjures up thoughts of WW3, and the prophecies of the book of Revelations. I have a family, a wife and 2 children. I miss my security. Madmen stole it from me a couple of days ago. They stole the lives of thousands. Their supporters reveled in the success of their mission. Previous terrorist attacks were perpetuated by monsters that took just as much satisfaction in the carnage they were responsible for. I hate what we must do.

Sean the Hutt
09-14-2001, 06:46 AM
Yes, Anyone who does not believe that these people will indeed set off Nyclear weapons is living in a dream world. There are 146000 tons of plutonium sitting around in Russia. Do not think that some has not dissapeared. We have a problem here people. I don't like war either. It is the dirty part of humanity. However after the other day our Children will]may never know a truely secure day. The ramafacations of this are so deep it is too hard to get a grasp of. The world is different my friends. I will not say " good bye untill better times," Instead I will say," hello my Brother Americans, I have never felt as close to all of you as I do these days. All of our Silly squabbles seem shallow and Petty, We have it in our power to unite in diversity." Diversity is our best asset.

JediTricks
09-14-2001, 10:10 AM
Conventional warfare is not the answer, wiping Afghanistan off the map will not bring back our dead, will kill many innocent people, will put the lives of thousands of America's servicemen and women in harm's way, and all the while will most likely serve to empower the terrorists who survive to commit more sickeningly-spectacular acts of terror via the "hydra" effect (where you cut off one head and another grows). Killing those who committed or played a part in these terrible acts won't stop terrorism, we don't need a bigger military effort, we need a smarter one who can take these criminals ALIVE so vital information on other terrorists and planned terrorism acts can be extracted from these sons of *****es. When you involve yourself with killing thousands of innocent civilians, you throw away your human rights and deserve to be used as a tool against terrorism -- sodium pentathol is a powerful motivator, and I've heard the CIA has experts at loosening tongues. No, we don't need to make a big stupid war showing where we wipe out innocent civilians, we need to strike smart and covertly and use these people against the evils they promote.

Do you think if these terrorists could get nuclear or chemical weapons into the US and be able to use them, that they would have flown planes into the WTC and the Pentagon? Of course not, they'd just set off their ultimate devices of terror and be done with it; but obviously they saw these awful options as being far too difficult and used our own easily-accessed tools of destruction against us -- and those jet planes were tools of destruction. Nothing else - outside military hardware and large explosive devices - could have done the damage these commercial jets were tragically capable of, and clearly the security to these jets was far too easy to breach.

I know these are times of fear right now, but we have to try to remain calm and cool and reasonable. If we respond with brute force against a whole country, we will not win the war against terrorism and we will simply be giving in to feelings of vengence, not justice. We need to make smart decisions from here on in and not let the terrorists win, we can't give in to the terror. We should demand justice for all involved with committing these deplorable tragedies, but we should remain superior in honor and civility.

JediTricks
09-14-2001, 11:25 AM
updates:

- CNN is reporting that all 18 hijacking subjects have been identified and their site has a list of the suspects names.

- The US Senate voted 98 to 0 approving the use of force in retaliation. (this happened within the past 10 minutes)

- Both black boxes from the jet that crashed into the Pentagon have been recovered and are being analyzed.

- Bush approves the Defense Department's request to callup 50,000 military reservists.(this happened within the past 30 minutes)

- Detainees from yesterday's opening of airports have been cleared and released.

- At Phoenix's Skyharbor Airport, 3 Northwest Airlines employees did an unauthorized test of a security checkpoint and each breached the point - one with a corkscrew, one with a pocket knife, and a pilot passing through without proper ID. Once they did this, they turned around and pointed out the breaches to security. A Skyharbor spokesperson also said that that they ask that NOBODY should intentionally try to break security. A different Skyharbor spokesperson said that the matter was referred to the FAA.

- There are conflicting reports about the 5 firefighters rescued yesterday. CNN is saying that a spokesperson for the fire department claims that this did not happen and was just a rumor, however MSNBC claims 2 firefighters were rescued, not 5, and Fox News had interviews with rescue workers who claimed they pulled those 5 firefighters from the wreckage themselves. There is also some confusion about how long these firefighters were there before they were rescued.

- There are increasing numbers of hate crimes against Arab-Americans and people of the Muslim faith being reported. Tragic that fear and anger have turned some Americans into terrorists themselves.

stillakid
09-14-2001, 12:12 PM
As so much email is forwarded these days, this ended up in my mailbox yesterday. I think that it expresses the feelings of many Americans and others around the world:

Leonard Pitts-STAR LEDGER
September 12, 2001

We'll go forward from this moment

It's my job to have something to say.

They pay me to provide words that help make sense of that which
troubles the American soul. But in this moment of airless shock when hot tears sting disbelieving eyes, the only thing I can find to say, the only words that seem to fit, must be addressed to the unknown author of this suffering.

You monster. You beast. You unspeakable bastard.

What lesson did you hope to teach us by your coward's attack on our World Trade Center, our Pentagon, us? What was it you hoped we would learn?

Whatever it was, please know that you failed.

Did you want us to respect your cause? You just damned your cause.

Did you want to make us fear? You just steeled our resolve.

Did you want to tear us apart? You just brought us together.

Let me tell you about my people. We are a vast and quarrelsome
family, a family rent by racial, social, political and class division, but a family nonetheless. We're frivolous, yes, capable of expending tremendous emotional energy on pop cultural minutiae-a singer's revealing dress, a ball team's misfortune, a cartoon mouse. We're wealthy, too, spoiled by the ready
availability of trinkets and material goods, and maybe because of that, we walk through life with a certain sense of blithe entitlement. We are fundamentally decent, though-peace-loving and compassionate. We struggle to know the right thing and to do it. And we are, the overwhelming majority of us, people of faith, believers in a just and loving God.

Some people-you, perhaps-think that any or all of this makes us weak. You're mistaken. We are not weak. Indeed, we are strong in ways that cannot be measured by arsenals.

Yes, we're in pain now. We are in mourning and we are in shock.
We're still grappling with the unreality of the awful thing you did, still working to make ourselves understand that this isn't a special effect from some Hollywood blockbuster, isn't the plot development from a Tom Clancy novel. Both in terms of the awful scope of their ambition and the probable final death toll, your attacks are likely to go down as the worst acts of terrorism in the history of the United States and, probably, the history of
the world. You've bloodied us as we have never been bloodied before.

But there's a gulf of difference between making us bloody and making us fall. This is the lesson Japan was taught to its bitter sorrow the last time anyone hit us this hard, the last time anyone brought us such abrupt and monumental pain. When roused, we are righteous in our outrage, terrible in our force. When provoked by this level of barbarism, we will bear any suffering, pay any cost, go to any length, in the pursuit of justice.

I tell you this without fear of contradiction. I know my people, as
you, I think, do not. What I know reassures me. It also causes me to tremble with dread of the future.

In the days to come, there will be recrimination and accusation,
fingers pointing to determine whose failure allowed this to happen and what can be done to prevent it from happening again. There will be heightened security, misguided talk of revoking basic freedoms. We'll go forward from this moment sobered, chastened, sad. But determined, too. Unimaginably
determined.

You see, the steel in us is not always readily apparent. That aspect of our character is seldom understood by people who don't know us well. On this day, the family's bickering is put on hold.

As Americans we will weep, as Americans we will mourn, and as
Americans, we will rise in defense of all that we cherish.

So I ask again: What was it you hoped to teach us? It occurs to me that maybe you just wanted us to know the depths of your hatred. If that's the case, consider the message received. And take this message in exchange: You don't know my people. You don't know what we're capable of. You don't know what you just started.

But you're about to learn.