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Brave Sir Robin
09-12-2001, 06:26 PM
Now, there has been some different views on this forum as to whether or not an Indiana Jones toy line should include a figure of Adolf Hitler. Some people feel that he should be a mail-away exclusive, and many people do not want to see a toy of him at all. There was also a recent debate on About.com Action Figures as to wheather McFarlene Toys' Sin City figure "Death Row Marv" (a figure strapped to an electric chair which lights up and makes a buzzing sound) after the general public decided that it was too gruesome for children and somebody used it as a George W. Bush parody. There have also been polls for toys of adult movie stars to be released that would only be available in adult bookstores.
What am I trying to get at? What I am trying to say is that toys are no longer just for kids. The toy buying community and the general public has to accept that. There are some lines that are mostly for kids, such as Pokemon, Digimon, X-Men Evolution and Star Wars, and there are lines that are targeted mostly as adults and collectors, such as most McFarlene products, The Matrix, the new collector Military figures, and Star Wars. I am not supporting the idea of any of the three above mentioned toys, all I am saying is that there aren't any strange weirdos who get their kicks from buying children's playthings anymore, there are toys that are just not for kids and people have to accept that.

Eternal Padawan
09-12-2001, 09:38 PM
I think the 'Death Row Marv" was a knee jerk reaction of a parent somewhere that got blown out of proportion. Most people haven't read Sin City and wouldn't know the character or his story. I happened to enjoy the book and think the figure was a fine idea. Similarly, figures of Adult movie stars and/or Bunnies or what have you is a fine idea if your into displaying that sort of thing.

The Hitler figure, however is a lot trickier. While the completist in me would want to see this figure in an Indy Jones line, I cannot condone anybody profiting from the image of this heinous, atrocious figure from our history. To make little toys of Adolph Hitler would be to mock every single person who gave thier life during WWII, voluntarily or otherwise. Reducing the fanatical accomplishments of this man and the monumental efforts of the Allied forces to stop him and his evil regime to a sales point on the third quarter earnings report for Hasbro or Mattel is unconsionable. For this reason, I will never purchase a Hitler figure and I hope and pray no one ever thinks to make one...

bigbarada
09-12-2001, 10:08 PM
The day that an American company produces and profits from an Adolf Hitler toy is the day that Hitler achieves his greatest victory over America. It would be a slap in the face of every American who died in WW2 and the 3 million people murdered by this madman. Hitler wasn't a comic book badguy he was a ruthless monster and leave it to the short-memory and ignorance of today's America to actually want to honor this animal with an action figure.

I know I've joked about this figure before but the events of the last 48 hours have forced me to realize just how horrible it must have been for the whole world back then.

No offense to you, Brave Sir Robin, but I think it would be best to postpone this discussion for a while.

JediTricks
09-13-2001, 09:15 AM
Barada, I'm afraid not only has one company already profitted from a 12" Hitler figure, but another, definitely US-based, company is planning an even more accurate one for release.

People who sell Hitler toys and other Hitler junk are as low as those a-holes who are selling pieces of concrete from the World Trade Center and papers they found that came from the buildings on ebay.

If this was something like Satan toys, porno star action figures, other "adult-themed and -marketed toys", I'd have no problem, but I think Hitler figures cross the line, EP's comments about this really take that home.

Brave Sir Robin
09-13-2001, 09:20 AM
I was not saying that either idea was a good one, and in fact the Hitler toy was probably a crappy example because of the past events that have happened but because of the evil things that Hilter is hated for. I personally do not want one and do not think that they should be made, even in an exclusively collector-aimed Military line of toys. The point that I was trying to make, however, is that toys are not playthings anymore. sorry if anyone got the wrong impression.

Obi-Don
09-13-2001, 09:36 AM
Brave Sir Robin, I don't believe you were saying you want a Hitler toy or any other toys about him.I also am with you on that toys are not just for kids anymore.

EP,You said a mouth full,and hit the target dead center.I don't believe it could have been said better!

Brave Sir Robin
09-13-2001, 05:32 PM
I think that modern toys can be compared to modern animation. A long time ago, kids were the only people who watched cartoons, and parents could always be sure that if a show had animated drawings in it that it was safe and appropriate. But nowadsays, we have stuff like South Park, Pink Floyd's "The Wall" an onslaught of manga/anime toons from Japan, cartoons based on grownup comic books like Spawn and Heavy Metal, and arguably shows like The Simpsons and The Nightmare Before Christmas. Animation, like action figures, have gone past the Trix mark are no longer just for kids.

bigbarada
09-13-2001, 05:49 PM
I totally agree that action figures are becoming a grown-up market. Sure some kids collect them but they are rapidly becoming the minority. Video games and electronic toys are overshadowing the craftmanship that goes into today's action figures. However there is a distinct line between mature and deviant. Any real-life mass-murderer/criminal should not be glorified with an action figure. Just because there are some people who would buy it doesn't mean making the toy is the right thing to do. Not too long ago the FBI broke up a child-porn website (I recalling this from memory so my details are sketchy) and found thousands of people subscribed to this site! Thousands!! So using the reasoning that demand makes right, should the government legalize child-porn because so many people want to see it? Of course not!!! Because that would be violating a basic moral principal of humanity! The same with a mass-murderer/criminal action figure.

One more note, imagine the grief felt by the families of the victims of say Jeffery Daumer if they were to walk into a store and see an action figure of the very man responsible for killing their loved one.

Obi-Dan Kenobi
09-13-2001, 10:01 PM
Originally posted by Brave Sir Robin
all I am saying is that there aren't any strange weirdos who get their kicks from buying children's playthings anymore, there are toys that are just not for kids and people have to accept that.

Yes, but I really think people are getting that. Maybe not most people, but a lot. Most of my friends don't collect figures, and I myself pretty much stick to Star Wars, but I'm constantly running into people in "real life" that are into figures. I'll say a lot of them are mostly into Spawn and the "darker side" of figures, but they are out there. Even celebrities are freely admitting to collecting figures. As everyone here knows, McFarlane was probably the one who can be credited with this development. Just the fact that his comics and figures are being made around more adult themes makes them more appealing. This Death Row Marv sounds sick to me, and not something I'd probably want, but it also sounds like it wasn't being made for children. The animation thing is a good comparison. I think in another ten or twenty years you won't hear as much of the kinds of outcry that you speak of. Although there will always be some parent group or politician who will find something to complain about. If you ask me, it's up to the parents to determine what their kids see and do. The companies that make toys should take responsibility, but ultimately is up to the parents.