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View Full Version : Vader in Anakin's Shadow? (MERGED)



pinoysith
05-16-2002, 08:51 PM
I'll start it off:
Darth Vader's shadow on the Lars homestead right before he goes off to find his mother.

Beast
05-16-2002, 08:59 PM
Umm, you mean Anakin's shadow, as he hugs Padme? That shadow looked nothing like Darth Vader. The shape of the shadow is an entirely normal human shape. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Freedom
05-16-2002, 09:09 PM
Exactly. That was NOT Darth Vader's shadow. It was clearly Anakin's. I saw Anthony Daniels. Was the ship in the Lars garage the beginnings of a T-16 Skyhopper?

There was a lot going on. I really didn't even try for Easter eggs yet.

joe-da
05-17-2002, 12:26 AM
Re: Umm, you mean Anakin's shadow, as he hugs Padme? That shadow looked nothing like Darth Vader. The shape of the shadow is an entirely normal human shape.

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

_________________________________


Anakin's "Vader" shadow is shown before he hugs Padme. When both shadows are shown together, his is "normal human" shaped again...

Beast
05-17-2002, 12:34 AM
I still disagree, the shadow at no point looked anything like Darth Vader's. It moved cause Anakin turned around, nothing more.

But, Salicious Crumb's cackle can be heard in the nightclub when they are looking around for Zam Wesell. :cool: :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

pinoysith
05-17-2002, 04:38 AM
JJB,

Just saw the movie again tonite, and it is Vader's shadow. It happens for a second, but you can see the profile of vader's helmet as anakin turns. Check it out next time you see it...

2-1B
05-17-2002, 05:18 AM
I'm not convinced. Every time I've seen it it just appears to be his clump of hair tied back that gives the vague appearance of a "helmet."
I'll look again tomorrow but right now I place this in league with the "Vader shadow in Watto's shop" legend.

jeffonthego
05-17-2002, 09:54 AM
With the costume he is wearing, Anakin's tatoine shadow is identical to TPM teaser poster of Darth Vader's statue, with the exception of no helmet. However, just his height and the robes alone (colour and size) made me think of Darth Vader throughout. But especially in that Tatoine scene...very cool!

greedo
05-17-2002, 10:31 AM
It was (in my opinnion) Vaders shadow on the side of the hut..otherwise, what is the purpose of going through all the work of shooting it, and the point of putting it in the movie?
There were all kinds of references to him becoming Vader.

What was Qui Gon's voice saying in the movie, I don't remember it...I also don't remember seeing any Royal guards either?

Jpalisi
05-17-2002, 10:56 AM
ok is it Just me or did anyone notice that on tattooine, and he is talkin to padme, anakins shadow, looks as if its darth vaders shadow? i saw this immediatly, all 4 times i saw the movie but my friends say its not vaders helmet. anyone else agree that it is vader?

pthfnder89
05-17-2002, 11:03 AM
Yes, that was intentional. That's why the whole first part of the scene played out with just Anakin and Padmes shadows on the wall. :) I liked that scene.

This is also a question/comment that belongs in the Episode 2 Movie section, not in the Toy column. It's best to keep them seperated, so the mods will probably move it soon.

Jpalisi
05-17-2002, 11:23 AM
thanks pthfnder,
i thought as much, and i think i should pay attention to where i am before i post something.
thanks again

pthfnder89
05-17-2002, 11:30 AM
No problemo! :) I definitely don't want to discourage you from posting. This just gives the moderators a little less work.

pthfnder89
05-17-2002, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by Caesar
I'm not convinced. Every time I've seen it it just appears to be his clump of hair tied back that gives the vague appearance of a "helmet."


Well, yes, that is exactly what it was. His ponytail was postitioned so that it gave the impression of being the slope at the back of Vaders helmet.

I feel positive that the whole thing was intentional. As greedo said, why else would they bother to frame the whole first part of the scene as shadows against the wall? George isn't really know for creative camera angles. Most of his shots are pretty straight forward. They seem to be trying to drawn the viewers attention to the shadows.

Taichi
05-17-2002, 12:50 PM
I kinda saw it.....as soon as I saw the scene play out with Shadows, I figured they'd try something like that (People claimed the same thing with Episode I), but this time it seems like it's really there (It wasn't in TPM)......

I was looking for Vader's shadow in that scene, but musta blinked, because I really didn't see it too well......but I'm sure it's there.......

2-1B
05-17-2002, 01:26 PM
"Why would they film it that way?"
Hmmm, I think because shadows have a certain mystery to them. Kinda like Yoda's shadow in the hangar.
It's cool if the audience draws an inference from the way they shot it (I didn't, but a friend of mine did), but I doubt they were trying to manipulate the scene into a literal depiction of Vader.

jawaboy
05-17-2002, 01:38 PM
There is no shadow of Vader. At all. Period. Not EVEN from a certain point of view.

BanthaPoodoo
05-17-2002, 02:11 PM
::in Dr Evazan voice:: I dont think it was a Darth shadow eitha......

It would be a neat little thing to have in there but until I see a screen shot convincing me otherwise, I think its just an exterior shot of the Lars Homestead with Anakins shadow against it.

greedo
05-17-2002, 02:25 PM
You may be right, but I do disagree, I think they were going for the original episode I poster look.....I don't remember any other side of the building shots with shadows...why waste. Lucas has a purpose to every shot..and I dont' think he is too much for wasting a shot of the side of the hut, plus they focus on the shadow, not the hut.

With Yoda, the shadow was to make you think someone bigger was coming around the corner like Mace...but instead it was little Yoda....

GroundskeeperWillie
05-17-2002, 02:50 PM
In my opinion, the shot is meant to call to mind the teaser poster, but I didn't see a Vader shadow there, either. Plus, that would be pretty heavy-handed if you ask me.

What I liked just for laughs was the electronic billboard over the cantina where Zam hides out. Did you catch the Bith (Cantina Band lightbulb-headed guy) and the other alien giving thumbs-up signs? I wonder if that was Lucas trying to subliminally force a good review from the critics LOL!

Gonna have to watch this movie about 1,000 more times to catch everything going on!

MichaelV103
05-17-2002, 04:29 PM
I noticed it right away and pointed it out to my wife in the theatre, I think thats why Ani had that little bun of hair in the back, to give the shadow that appearance.

pthfnder89
05-17-2002, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by jawaboy
There is no shadow of Vader. At all. Period. Not EVEN from a certain point of view.

That's funny. I could swear from my point of view that there was. Um... maybe that's why they call it a "point of view". Next you will be telling me that when Obi Wan tells Anakin "I have a feeling you'll be the death of me..." that line wasn't intentional either.:rolleyes:

If some people don't see the shadow it's not that big of a deal. It's a personal interpretation; like finding shapes in the clouds. The question isn't "IS the shadow there?", the only question is "Did the filmmakers INTEND for us to see the shadow that way."

And to answer that question, I agree with greedo, it seems to me that they were re-creating the shot from the teaser poster. I hadn't heard about the shadow before I saw the movie, and yet I still noticed it on my own. So unless I hear different I don't have any reason to believe that the shot wasn't on purpose.

Hopefully Lucas or McCallum will say whether or not it was intentional and we'll know for sure.
:)

jlw
05-17-2002, 05:43 PM
OK OK OK, enough with the Vader shadow thing!! I am sure the Insider will reveal soon enough whether or not Anakin's shadow is suppose to look like Vader.

I did hear the Vader breathing as Yoda is meditating on Anakin. Qui-Gon says, No, Anakin, No; but it also sounds like something else at the end.

I like the fact that an older Sebulba is seen in two scenes, Courascant chase and bar scene.

My favorite "easter egg" though is the shot of the woman's backside wearing the thong in the opening scene of the nightclub!!! HOOOOOOYAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I cannot wait to see all the still photos of the Jedi in the arena. I also like the "bully" super battle droid pushing all the battle droids out of the way.

One easter egg I looked for but couldn't see (I cannot focus that good) was 1138 on the back of any battle droid, but especially on a clone trooper. There are several close up shots of clone trooper numbers.

In the Lars homestead that is the skyhopper between the buildings, but is that Luke's speeder in the back (where the Lar's speeder is in A New Hope)?

saw the movie today (Friday) at 12:30pm, and it was packed!! When the scene come with the image of the Death Star, and the Geonosian turns it off; almost everyone in the audience (almost in concert) gasped and said, "Oh my god, the Death Star"

In my opinion this was THE best Star Wars to date. One last "easter egg" I liked was the dialogue between Obi-Wan and Count Dooku, it was almost word for word with Vader's and Luke's in Empire!!!

Did anyone by chance catch all the Senators in the Senate chamber, I am just wondering if ET was in this one?? That's all

tagmac
05-17-2002, 06:52 PM
I definitely saw a hint of Vader's shadow in that scene. For a split second, the shadow of Anakin's head looked like a side view of the helmet. I agree with what some people have said - why else would Lucas have done that? Showing the shadows serves no other purpose.

Here's one no one else, mentioned yet - when Anakin realizes his saber is broken in the droid factory, he says "Obi-Wan's gonna kill me." Well, that, too IS true, "from a certain point of view."

Lastly, and most obviously, was the final scene. Almost exactly like the final scene in ESB (right down to the robotic hand), only not in a spaceship.

And lastly, look at Amidala's entire attitude politically and on the battlefield - like mother, like daughter.

DarthChuckMc
05-17-2002, 09:26 PM
Vader IS in AOTC. This was from awhile back. When Obi-wan is flying through Coruscant on the assassian droid, you can see a very faint image of Vader on one of the buildings. It goes by very quickly, but it is there. I just watched the Ani-shadow scene. My first impression was I SAW VADER, but watching it again, I'm not so sure now. Wishful thinking I guess.

2-1B
05-17-2002, 09:45 PM
The use of shadows in film is "wasteful" and of "no purpose"? ? ? :rolleyes:
I really tried to see the Vader shadow tonight, it didn't work for me. I think it's a great shot by itself, I don't need the cheap thrill of Vader's shadow.

I've heard rumors that George Lucas can be seen in the Senate. I hadn't noticed, but today I looked and saw an overhead shot of a guy who possibly bore a slight resemblance to GL. During the applause, on the right hand side of the screen it looked like a gray haired human clapping. But it was very small and not convincing. Who knows . . .

2-1B
05-17-2002, 10:09 PM
Ani had that bun of hair in the back because that's how human padawans keep their hair. At least, Obi-Wan did a decade earlier :)

SQueek
05-17-2002, 10:23 PM
it was most deffanitly not vaders shadow but put there to remind us of the teaser poster and hence he will become vader

pinoysith
05-18-2002, 08:07 AM
can someone please post a screenshot of the Vader shadow ? i know for a fact that it does happen in the movie, and i know i'm not the only one who saw it.

jawaboy
05-18-2002, 11:15 AM
Doesn't Yoda also say something along the lines of "the shadow of the Sith has fallen"? That's Ani's shadow!!!

pthfnder89
05-18-2002, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by jawaboy
Doesn't Yoda also say something along the lines of "the shadow of the Sith has fallen"? That's Ani's shadow!!!

Close, the word was "shroud" thoough, not shadow.:)

BanthaPoodoo
05-18-2002, 05:00 PM
Nope, don't see it.

therock0603
05-18-2002, 05:29 PM
It only looks like that as the shadow of his head move over the corner of the door and side of the building. Purely coincidence. The corner makes his shadow bend and just out on both sides looking kind of similar to Vader's helmet.

jawa9
05-20-2002, 02:29 AM
I too saw Vaders shadow. But I saw Anakins' also. I bet George Lucas wanted fans to argue amongst themseleves over that scene.

cujo fett
05-20-2002, 06:55 AM
the shadow is clearly just anakin's silouette, but it is the angle of the shadow makes it look very similar to vader
like the little clump of hair in the back makes it look like the back of vader's helmet
this scene was not just merely coincidence
it was there to foreshadow the future of things to come
kind of a tease, don't you think

cujo fett
05-20-2002, 06:56 AM
the movie is full of foreshadowing things to come, if you watch carefully

therock0603
05-20-2002, 12:15 PM
Of course the movie is full of foreshadowings, but I think the whole shadow think was just a coincidence. I mean, it hardly looks like Vader's shadow, and it's only for a split second. I doubt Lucas sat there and said "All right, now let's make his shadow pass over a corner of the building so that his head's shadow will be shaped like Vader's....or a toaster oven, whichever it looks more like cause it would be so distorted anyways." I mean, I only saw it for a second and then I was like "so that's what people are talking about!" and then I realized I was blowing it out of proportion. It is very likely just something that people are searching for and then they distort it in their own minds so it will be what they want it to be.

Jedi Clint
05-21-2002, 12:55 AM
The shadow didn't really look like Vader IMO. Anakin walking toward the speeder bike though......WOW! His stride and the cape flowing behind him really reminded me of Vader.

2-1B
05-21-2002, 01:10 AM
George Lucas via a TF.N link
"I like putting a lot on the screen for fans to notice, or imagine, or interpret," Lucas says. "I think it's what a good movie does."

I still don't "see" the shadow. :D

DarthBrandon
05-21-2002, 01:18 AM
Could not see it guess I'm blind, I only seen it four times though.

Darth Nihilus
05-22-2002, 12:59 AM
The shadow is not Vader's on Tatooine. When I watched it the second time I kept an eye out for it and it definitely was not a DV silhouette.

As for easter eggs - A report in my local paper the other day quoted one of the special effects people (Denis Muren) as saying that in the asteroid field you can see that one of the asteroids has little legs - it is in fact a Shaak.

Jargo
05-22-2002, 02:20 PM
Well i thought the shadow of Anakin and Padme together on that building was intentionally Vader shaped. The camera deliberately dwells on the shadow of Anakin to make that point. His face and ponytail are making helmet shapes and his cloak was designed to look like vader's. Why else would they film a freakin' shadow if not to make a subtle allusion to Anakin's future?

derek
05-22-2002, 11:26 PM
i cast my vote in favor of the shadow. i know i briefly saw it and lucas is the kind of director that would only film shadows(most likely CG shadows) for the distinct purpose of flashing a vader shadow on the wall.

and jedi clint, you are correct, the robe anakin was wearing looked more vader than jedi.

on a side note, it is looking like hayden may actually wear the vader suit in E3. he said lucas has told him to bulk up a little, and george has been giving him the hint.

anakin is a little short for the OT vader, but if hobbits and dwarves can be rendered believable on screen, ILM can surely add about 5 inches to hayden.:)

therock0603
05-23-2002, 01:21 AM
Um...it never even remotely looked like Vader's shadow when it was zoomed in on the shadow only. The reason they would zoom in on a shadow is probably because some kind of symbolism of a shadow over him or that he has a darker side (a shadow is dark). The only time it looks even partially like Vader is when his shadow passes over a corner of the building, and it only lasts for a split second and is completely coincidental.

therock0603
05-23-2002, 01:23 AM
Also, yes, he will be wearing the suit. It's been established that Vader will have a role in E3 for a while. James Earl Jones said in an interview a long time ago that he is going to have to do voice work for Vader after they finish filming the movie.

Eternal Padawan
05-23-2002, 02:48 AM
I have to admit after several viewings (it's great working in a theatre) I cannot see any Vaderesque shadow on the wall. I have to conclude that it is wishful thinking on the part of the viewer. Unless somebody wants to produce a screenshot of said shadow (the one posted already is an argument in favor of the No-Shadow camp) or until Lucas and co. confim the Vader shadow, it doesn't exist.

stillakid
05-23-2002, 03:04 AM
Originally posted by pthfnder89


That's funny. I could swear from my point of view that there was. Um... maybe that's why they call it a "point of view". Next you will be telling me that when Obi Wan tells Anakin "I have a feeling you'll be the death of me..." that line wasn't intentional either.:rolleyes:

If some people don't see the shadow it's not that big of a deal. It's a personal interpretation; like finding shapes in the clouds. The question isn't "IS the shadow there?", the only question is "Did the filmmakers INTEND for us to see the shadow that way."

And to answer that question, I agree with greedo, it seems to me that they were re-creating the shot from the teaser poster. I hadn't heard about the shadow before I saw the movie, and yet I still noticed it on my own. So unless I hear different I don't have any reason to believe that the shot wasn't on purpose.

Hopefully Lucas or McCallum will say whether or not it was intentional and we'll know for sure.
:)


You're absolutely correct except for the "in my opinion" part. Any third rate film student could tell you that it was an intentional "re-creation" of the Ep I teaser poster. I'm consistently amazed at the tiny things that are incredibly obvious being questioned. Really. I mean...like wow. This is actually a thread?:confused:

Eternal Padawan
05-23-2002, 03:20 AM
Originally posted by stillakid



You're absolutely correct except for the "in my opinion" part. Any third rate film student could tell you that it was an intentional "re-creation" of the Ep I teaser poster. I'm consistently amazed at the tiny things that are incredibly obvious being questioned. Really. I mean...like wow. This is actually a thread?:confused:

As a film student, I saw no correlation between the poster and the scene. THAT sounds like wishful thinking to me. Is it like questioning whether Sifo-Dyas is really Sidious when they are clearly two different characters. If someone could show all the non-believers a picture of this infamous shadow that none of us can see, we might be more inclined to believe you. But since no one can show us the image, we have to wonder if it's because it doesn't exist.

stillakid
05-23-2002, 03:44 AM
Originally posted by Eternal Padawan


As a film student, I saw no correlation between the poster and the scene. THAT sounds like wishful thinking to me. Is it like questioning whether Sifo-Dyas is really Sidious when they are clearly two different characters. If someone could show all the non-believers a picture of this infamous shadow that none of us can see, we might be more inclined to believe you. But since no one can show us the image, we have to wonder if it's because it doesn't exist.

I would if I could, but I don't have a copy of the film on me at the moment. Cough up another 8 bucks and go check it out. The similarity doesn't last through the entire shot, mostly at the beginning and as he turns to Padme. What other reason would there be to shoot that part of the scene in that way? :confused:

Beast
05-23-2002, 03:50 AM
Originally posted by stillakid
What other reason would there be to shoot that part of the scene in that way? :confused:
I dunno, maybe a little somthing directors like to call, artistic expression? :D

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

2-1B
05-23-2002, 03:55 AM
Originally posted by stillakid
You're absolutely correct except for the "in my opinion" part. Any third rate film student could tell you that it was an intentional "re-creation" of the Ep I teaser poster. I'm consistently amazed at the tiny things that are incredibly obvious being questioned. Really. I mean...like wow. This is actually a thread?:confused:

No, the teaser poster had a blatant image of Vader, 3-4 times the size of Jake Lloyd. That is obvious, this issue is not.
The ingredients are there for someone to "see" the shadow, but it isn't clearcut. To me the use of shadows in that scene did convey darkness and uncertainty, much like Anakin's future (and I'll add Padme's to that as well.) A beautiful shot, IMO.
If people physically "see" the shadow of Vader, that's cool. I don't, and no I am not missing "the obvious." :)

Eternal Padawan
05-23-2002, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by stillakid


I would if I could, but I don't have a copy of the film on me at the moment. Cough up another 8 bucks and go check it out.

Pshaw. I don't pay to watch Star Wars. I get paid to watch it. :D

bobafett07728
05-23-2002, 11:23 AM
In the same scene Padme's shadow looks like Leia, and it recreates the "You're part of the Rebel Alliance and a traitor. . .take her away" scene with Vader.


No. . .seriously. . .some people see Vader. . .some don't.
I have a few times. . .and I haven't on other occasions.

It all depends on what the viewer feels they see. . .if you see it great. . .if you don't see it. . .great.

Some people can't see the hidden picture in those MagicEye posters either. . .big deal.
Some people can't see images in the clouds. . .big deal.

The movie ruled, and until you can stop it frame by frame, the argument is going to continue. . .and even then. . .it may not be concluded.

stillakid
05-23-2002, 11:32 AM
Originally posted by bobafett07728
Some people can't see the hidden picture in those MagicEye posters either. . .big deal.


Ahhh, but the fact is is that the hidden picture is there whether you can see it for yourself or not.;)

therock0603
05-23-2002, 03:37 PM
lol, now some of you are saying that any film student would know that it was supposed to resemble Vader....no, actually, any good film student would know it's most likely just zooming in on his shadow as a symbol of the dark shadow over Anakin. Or artistic expression as Jar Jar said.

stillakid
05-24-2002, 06:49 PM
Originally posted by therock0603
lol, now some of you are saying that any film student would know that it was supposed to resemble Vader....no, actually, any good film student would know it's most likely just zooming in on his shadow as a symbol of the dark shadow over Anakin. Or artistic expression as Jar Jar said.

Nah, it wasn't some of us, it was just me. :)

Yes, artistic expression exactly! Expressing what?! Why, I'm glad you asked. Expressing a mirror of the image on the Episode I teaser poster. Filmmakers (well, most of them anyway) don't just toss random shots into a movie just to be different. Typically, they mean something.

therock0603
05-24-2002, 11:35 PM
which is exactly why I said it's probably just a symbol of the shadow over Anakin... he has a dark side, which is represented by his dark shadow...

stillakid
05-25-2002, 12:32 AM
Originally posted by therock0603
which is exactly why I said it's probably just a symbol of the shadow over Anakin... he has a dark side, which is represented by his dark shadow...


...in an image replicating the Episode I teaser poster. :)

derek
05-25-2002, 12:39 AM
just to be clear, so some will know when to look for it, i saw the vader shaped shadow right when it first appeared and the camera panned, or either hayden turned his head, not later in the shot.:)

stillakid
05-25-2002, 12:45 AM
Originally posted by derek
just to be clear, so some will know when to look for it, i saw the vader shaped shadow right when it first appeared and the camera panned, or either hayden turned his head, not later in the shot.:)

It's too late now. They'll deny it forever just on principle. ;)

2-1B
05-25-2002, 02:49 AM
stillakid, what is there to deny? Some people see it, some don't. Why don't you accept interpretation on this issue? :confused:

Without question, Vader's shadow appears on the TPM teaser. Vader's shadow does not appear "without question" in AOTC.

How do I draw that distinction? Little Jake Lloyd was shown standing in front of a wall, and someone took the exact image of an adult Darth Vader from another source and imposed it in the background. The scene is not in the movie, it was done for promotion. It was physically impossible to pass off a shadow of Jake as Vader. Hayden is another story . . .

In AOTC, it's a realistic shadow of Hayden Christensen in costume, perhaps manipulated to give the impression of Darth Vader's shadow. If you interpret it that way, great! :)
I recognize the aspects of the shot that lead some people to see Vader's shadow, yet I can clearly see those same attributes in Hayden's hair/costume.

These two shadows are shown in different contexts, I think it's open for interpretation.

stillakid
05-25-2002, 10:56 AM
Perhaps this a good question for the Ask the Jedi Council thing over at the official site.

Eternal Padawan
05-25-2002, 10:59 AM
And I don't buy the Episode Teaser poster argument. Where's the precedent for that? I don't remember and of the other posters images getting worked into the film. Where was the scene where Hayden and Natalie are back to back and Anakin has a lit lightsaber? When did Leia grab a hold of Luke's thigh when he was looking skyward?

There's no image. You guys won't admit there's no image just on principle.

stillakid
05-25-2002, 11:09 AM
Originally posted by Eternal Padawan
And I don't buy the Episode Teaser poster argument. Where's the precedent for that? I don't remember and of the other posters images getting worked into the film. Where was the scene where Hayden and Natalie are back to back and Anakin has a lit lightsaber? When did Leia grab a hold of Luke's thigh when he was looking skyward?

There's no image. You guys won't admit there's no image just on principle.


Alright, then explain why he would do that shot. Every other shot in the last 5 movies have been terribly straight forward and then WHAM! out of the blue comes this "artistic expression" that looks radically similar to the Teaser Poster. What would the motivation for doing that be exactly? :confused:

Eternal Padawan
05-25-2002, 12:51 PM
I dunno. What was with the "C-3PO cam" shot in Anakin and Shmi's hovel when Anakin is saying good-bye to the droid? That seemed out of place to me, too. Was that referencing one of the teaser posters?

Maybe George just likes to experiment with shots. It doesn't change the fact there's no Vader helmet on the wall. Unless you want to see it. I wanted to see the three stooges in that shot. Guess what. I saw 'em. Except Curly looked a little thin... :rolleyes:

stillakid
05-25-2002, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by Eternal Padawan
I dunno. What was with the "C-3PO cam" shot in Anakin and Shmi's hovel when Anakin is saying good-bye to the droid? That seemed out of place to me, too. Was that referencing one of the teaser posters?

Maybe George just likes to experiment with shots. It doesn't change the fact there's no Vader helmet on the wall. Unless you want to see it. I wanted to see the three stooges in that shot. Guess what. I saw 'em. Except Curly looked a little thin... :rolleyes:


Hmm? I need to watch the movie again to be sure, but I don't remember Anakin's little rat tail being tied up at any time during the story except at the very specific time at that very specific place that specifically looked exactly like the "dome" on the desert planet as shown in the teaser poster. With that little lump on the back of his head, and his robes out the way they were and the light creating that silhouette (although I don't believe that it is a true shadow, I can't prove it but I believe that it is a post effect to sharpen the edges) all of the elements are present to simulate the Darth Vader image that was evident on the Teaser Poster.

And if he does just like to experiment with shots, why then, why there, why do it at with the precise conditions that set up the "potential" for the replication of the Vader imagery when he didn't mean to do it? A satisfactory answer to that question will convince me.

As far as the C-3PO POV shot? I'm entirely in the dark about that one. Nothing is obvious in that example so that is a topic open for speculation.

Darth Nihilus
05-25-2002, 02:47 PM
It's not his rat's tail tied up, it's a small bob he has at the back of his hair. At best the silhouette slopes at the back but that's it. IMO anyone who sees Vader in that picture is freaky high:crazed:

2-1B
05-25-2002, 11:01 PM
There are a few other shots from AOTC that struck me as "different", I'm wondering if they affected any of you in the same way:

Anakin chasing Zam on foot, the shots going back and forth of them racing thru the crowds - almost at a blur.

Closeup on Mace's feet as he "sneaks" up on Dooks and Jangy.
Okay, now that I typed out my Mace reference, I'm reminded of Wicket's feet shot in ROTJ. But the tone is alot different.

:crazed:

stillakid
05-25-2002, 11:19 PM
But no one is answering this question:

And if he does just like to experiment with shots, why then, why there, why do it at with the precise conditions that set up the "potential" for the replication of the Vader imagery when he didn't mean to do it?

2-1B
05-25-2002, 11:38 PM
I'm not saying the "potential" wasn't there, I'm just saying it isn't clearcut (I saw it today for the 10th time and really tried to see it but still don't :D).

A few pages back I quoted ol' Georgie from the new Insider that I thought might apply. In case ya missed it, I'll put it here:
"I like putting a lot on the screen for fans to notice, or imagine, or interpret," Lucas says. "I think it's what a good movie does."

If Lucas comes out in the future and says that the shot was done to suggest Vader's shadow, I won't have a problem with it.
But if he states that the shadow of Vader is definitely shown, I'll hold him guilty of doing a pretty vague job. :crazed:

stillakid
05-25-2002, 11:45 PM
Originally posted by Caesar
I'm not saying the "potential" wasn't there, I'm just saying it isn't clearcut (I saw it today for the 10th time and really tried to see it but still don't :D).

A few pages back I quoted ol' Georgie from the new Insider that I thought might apply. In case ya missed it, I'll put it here:
"I like putting a lot on the screen for fans to notice, or imagine, or interpret," Lucas says. "I think it's what a good movie does."

If Lucas comes out in the future and says that the shot was done to suggest Vader's shadow, I won't have a problem with it.
But if he states that the shadow of Vader is definitely shown, I'll hold him guilty of doing a pretty vague job. :crazed:

Mine (Insider) just showed up today. I'll take a look at it.

It's a standoff! (whoosh, I use my Jedi powers to sprint off to another thread...);)

2-1B
05-25-2002, 11:50 PM
LOL, stillakid - it's pretty funny that you popped into this thread asking (sarcastically, no doubt) "this is a thread?" but the thing keeps growing, nearing 6 pages. :D

stillakid
05-25-2002, 11:57 PM
Originally posted by Caesar
LOL, stillakid - it's pretty funny that you popped into this thread asking (sarcastically, no doubt) "this is a thread?" but the thing keeps growing, nearing 6 pages. :D


No, actually I was pretty serious. While the imagery is momentary, the intent is crystal clear and I am honestly amazed that so many people failed to see it or don't really want to. It seems like one of those things that is so obvious that you can't believe it when you hear somebody say that they definitively without a doubt no questions asked don't see it. Maybe we're talking about two different movies? Attack of the Clones, right? ;)

Anyway, until Lucas spells it out in plain English, and it appears that he has no intention of doing so, there's no sense in going on and on about it.

(whoosh, he dashes out to check on the Just Found threads because it's the toys that really matter :) ...)

Beast
05-26-2002, 12:01 AM
I bet Lucas is just gonna sit back and be quiet about the whole issue, and talk about it on the DVD in November. Thus making sure everyone buys the DVD to hear the answer. He loves to torture the fans. Good going George!! :D

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

therock0603
05-26-2002, 12:38 AM
ok, stillakid, you're not putting up a good argument at all.... you keep asking why else he would show the shadow up close if not to replicate the E1 poster and I keep telling you exactly why else he would do it...it's probably just a symbol of the shadow over Anakin... he has a dark side, which is represented by his dark shadow...
Then you just pretend that message was never posted and ask the same question. It's been answered 3 or 4 times.

derek
05-26-2002, 01:08 AM
i think the point that stillakid is making is that it isn't in george's style to film a shot like this without adding a split second CGI vader shadow in there. there are plenty of other directors(john woo, david finchner) who would shoot a straight shadow scene just for effect, but lucas isn't one of them. the guy barely directs his actors. he's more concerned with editing and CG stuff to concentrate on symbolism. i won't be suprised if this issue isn't discussed 5 months late in the "insider", where all the easter eggs are pointed out.:)

stillakid
05-26-2002, 01:14 AM
Originally posted by therock0603
ok, stillakid, you're not putting up a good argument at all.... you keep asking why else he would show the shadow up close if not to replicate the E1 poster and I keep telling you exactly why else he would do it...it's probably just a symbol of the shadow over Anakin... he has a dark side, which is represented by his dark shadow...
Then you just pretend that message was never posted and ask the same question. It's been answered 3 or 4 times.


I wasn't pretending anything. That answer isn't a satisfactory explanation of why he would do such a shot at that specific time at that specific place in the script emulating a very specific image that had come previously. I'm not arguing anything...merely explaining what is actually there. :)

Eternal Padawan
05-26-2002, 10:01 AM
Originally posted by JarJarBinks
I bet Lucas is just gonna sit back and be quiet about the whole issue, and talk about it on the DVD in November. Thus making sure everyone buys the DVD to hear the answer. He loves to torture the fans. Good going George!! :D

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

And it will go something like this.

"Back when the movie came out, a bunch of rumors started on the internet about how they could see Vader's image in Anakin's shadow. I didn't actually put it in there, but it's nice that the fans see what they want to see. It's just not in my nature to put hidden stuff in there like that. It's a pretty straightforward film. (sigh) The fans grow up. The films don't."

:)

(whooshes to the Battle Time Polls, because it's all about the polls!) ;)

therock0603
05-26-2002, 01:25 PM
Actually, stillakid, that's exactly the type of answer you were asking for. You said "why else would he focus on a shadow?" I gave you an exact answer....to symbolize the dark side of Anakin. It is not emulating the stupid E1 poster. The shadow looks nothing like Darth Vader. Just cause George Lucas might not be talented enough to come up with the idea of zooming in on a shadow to symbolize the dark side, it doesn't mean that none of the thousands of others on the cast and crew couldn't suggest the idea. If he was trying to "emulate" the poster, he would have had an exact image of DV's shadow. However, people are just wanting to find something like that in the movie so badly that they'll expand Anakin's head in their minds to make it look like Darth Vader's. If you're a film student and all you can come up with is that he's just plainly emulating a poster, I'm surprised you're passing (assuming you are).

Darth Nihilus
05-26-2002, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by stillakid
I'm not arguing anything...merely explaining what is actually there. :)

If what you say was actually there, then there wouldn't be an argument. I focused intensely on that shot the second time I watched the movie and there was nothing there that said "Darth Vader". In fact Rock's answer makes perfect sense and is more likely than seeing figures in shadows, especially when put into the context of the next shot - which is Anakin leaving Padme all alone, as he does after turning to the dark side.

stillakid
05-26-2002, 07:40 PM
Originally posted by Darth Nihilus


If what you say was actually there, then there wouldn't be an argument. I focused intensely on that shot the second time I watched the movie and there was nothing there that said "Darth Vader". In fact Rock's answer makes perfect sense and is more likely than seeing figures in shadows, especially when put into the context of the next shot - which is Anakin leaving Padme all alone, as he does after turning to the dark side.


But you guys haven't answered the question. It is "why do that shot right there, with the shadow on that wall, in that place, at that time of day, in a situation with all the elements required to recreate the Teaser poster if he didn't mean to do it?" I heard your answer, but you're still avoiding the question.

Assume for a second that you are correct and he just wanted to throw in a random artistic shot to show off or "suggest a dark shadow over Anakin's tortured soul" or something. Why didn't he pick someplace else to do it? Why there? Why not anywhere else in the film? He started his bipolar behavior much sooner than that? Why not "foreshadow" the sh*t out of the character earlier? The point is, if GL didn't intend to have the Teaser poster "replicated," then why bother going to the trouble of doing the shot at all?

And no, I'm not a film student anymore...and yes, I passed quite well thank you. Perhaps a film class or two for some members of his audience wouldn't hurt their appreciation of the subtext filmmakers attempt to insert into their work. Clearly their efforts are being wasted... There's a new Adam Sandler movie coming out soon that should be basic enough to understand.

therock0603
05-26-2002, 08:04 PM
He did it there because it's Tatooine. It has 2 suns. It is the brightest planet featured in the Star Wars movies. It is the perfect location to symbolize the dark side with a shadow because it is the brightest location available. It provides a contrast, a light side, if you will. There, I answered the other aspect of your question.
Allow me to go even deeper. This could answer why it was this EXACT location on Tatooine. It shows Anakin's dark shadow on the future homestead of Luke Skywalker. When Luke wants to leave and go to the academy to be a great star pilot like his father, but his uncle won't let him, he feels he is in his father's shadow. Also when he finds out that Darth Vader is his father, that's even more of a shadow over him until he can finally confront him and turn him to the light side before he dies. Anakin's shadow over Luke's future home could symbolize the future shadow of Luke's father over him. There you go. I answered it all.

therock0603
05-26-2002, 11:57 PM
bump

stillakid
05-27-2002, 12:34 AM
Where's the avatar of the little yellow guy shaking his head in disbelief?

therock0603
05-27-2002, 12:40 AM
lol, say what?

Eternal Padawan
05-27-2002, 02:18 AM
Originally posted by stillakid
Where's the avatar of the little yellow guy shaking his head in disbelief? :crazed: Close enough?:rolleyes:



:)

stillakid
05-27-2002, 02:56 AM
Originally posted by Eternal Padawan
:crazed: Close enough?:rolleyes:



:)

Yeah! I think that maybe there's some calculus in there to make it work out...

:rolleyes: / :crazed: x 2 = :eek: + :stupid:

pthfnder89
05-28-2002, 07:10 PM
Originally posted by Caesar
I'm not saying the "potential" wasn't there, I'm just saying it isn't clearcut (I saw it today for the 10th time and really tried to see it but still don't :D).

A few pages back I quoted ol' Georgie from the new Insider that I thought might apply. In case ya missed it, I'll put it here:
"I like putting a lot on the screen for fans to notice, or imagine, or interpret," Lucas says. "I think it's what a good movie does."

If Lucas comes out in the future and says that the shot was done to suggest Vader's shadow, I won't have a problem with it.
But if he states that the shadow of Vader is definitely shown, I'll hold him guilty of doing a pretty vague job. :crazed:

I think you have the best angle on it Ceasar, and it's the same one I was trying to make earlier in the thread. It's all about interpretation, not about whether it's there or not, but whether Lucas *intended* it to be seen that way.

I didn't hear anything about it before I went to see the movie, but the very first time I saw it, Vaders shadow jumped out at me.

I think it's a hot enough topic that he will come out in a few months and say if he intentionally put it there with some CG work or not. Till then it's fun to debate, but theres no need for anyone to get angry about it.:)

stillakid
05-28-2002, 09:27 PM
Originally posted by pthfnder89


I think you have the best angle on it Ceasar, and it's the same one I was trying to make earlier in the thread. It's all about interpretation, not about whether it's there or not, but whether Lucas *intended* it to be seen that way.

I didn't hear anything about it before I went to see the movie, but the very first time I saw it, Vaders shadow jumped out at me.

I think it's a hot enough topic that he will come out in a few months and say if he intentionally put it there with some CG work or not. Till then it's fun to debate, but theres no need for anyone to get angry about it.:)


I'll go with that! :)

In the meantime, I'm working some of my 'inside' sources to find out what was going on with that shot. I'll report back here if I find out anything.

2-1B
05-29-2002, 03:16 AM
pthfnder, I went into the movie with no knowledge of this shot either, and immediately after the film ended, a friend turned to me and said that Vader was Anakin shadow. "No way", I said, because I honestly hadn't "seen" it. Still don't. :D

Anyway, I want to throw out this tidbit, not sure if it means anything . . . I am impatient with downloading the Making Ep2 docs, so last night I finally knocked out the last few shows.
I saw brief footage of them working on that scene, and the whole time I only saw Hayden and Natalie - and there was no shot of the shadows. Of course, this was not footage for the film, but "footage of the shooting of" the film . . . maybe when they offer the DVD we'll get a better sense of the techniques they used. See, I wouldn't put it past them to just use CGI shadows in that scene, but the documentary showed that there were naturally occurring shadows.

I dunno, like I said I saw that last night and thought of y'all. :kiss:

scruffziller
06-03-2002, 11:29 AM
Right off hand I can't think of any scenes themselves from the movie, but on the back of the soundtrack CD, with Yoda on the front anyway, you cover up Anikin's head and the body is that of VADER'S!!!!!!!!!!!!

pthfnder89
06-03-2002, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by scruffziller
Right off hand I can't think of any scenes themselves from the movie, but on the back of the soundtrack CD, with Yoda on the front anyway, you cover up Anikin's head and the body is that of VADER'S!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, they purposefully made the leather "straps" (I don't know what they're called, the leather parts of his tunic that run over his shoulders) a little oversized so that when he wears his robe it gives him very broad shoulders, and he looks very similar to Vader.

darthvyn
06-03-2002, 06:19 PM
yeah, the shadow really DOES look like vader... the little tail on the back of his head turns into the back lip of the helmet, and his nose/mouth/chin meld together to form the grillpiece... seriously, it's there.

Chaddymac
06-03-2002, 11:53 PM
Was it just me (and I'm being entirely serious now) or was Vader in the hanger with Count Dooku when he took off on his speeder bike. Not the hanger with Anakin, Obi, and Yoda. I mean, the one he took off from to get to that hanger.

I swear, in the shot right before Dooku takes off on his speeder, I saw the sillouette of Darth Vader turn and walk away in the foreground (while Dooku was in the middle-to-background.

I have to admit, though, that the quality of the print I was watching was entirely too dark to notice any details and the other two times I watched it, I didn't notice. But this time there he was, right there in the lower left sixth of the screen.

Will somebody verify this please?

El Chuxter
02-21-2010, 07:25 PM
Since Anakin and Vader are the same person, Vader's shadow can be seen any time Anakin casts a shadow.

Bel-Cam Jos
02-22-2010, 08:38 PM
I have the Episode I teaser poster on my classroom wall as a visual example of foreshadowing (duh... :tired: ), and a student asked me how that was foreshadowing. I proceeded to explain the concept of giving clues to future events in a story while also trying to remain "spoiler free" in case he hadn't seen all the films (now THAT was some hard teaching). It turned out, he knew the SW films but didn't undertstand how THE LITTLE BOY MADE SUCH A BIG SHADOW THAT LOOKED NOTHING LIKE HIM. Guess I failed in that lesson... which opened up another off-the-cuff lesson on poetic license (and CGI technology).

pbarnard
02-23-2010, 11:43 AM
Episode I was cgi, but Episode II was not according to the commentary, correct?

JimJamBonds
02-25-2010, 07:45 AM
Since Anakin and Vader are the same person, Vader's shadow can be seen any time Anakin casts a shadow.

Wait... what?!?!?!? Umm how about a spoiler alert Chuxie!!!