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View Full Version : Jedi Knights: Not as strong as we thought.



Darth_Growl
05-19-2002, 08:25 PM
Last night I was entirely blown away by the movie. It was definitly worth the one hour wait that I had to endure, but I guess it's all part of the experience, right? hehehe! One thing I noticed after watching AOTC is that Jedi Knights can be killed as easily as a storm trooper, which to me is kind of sad. Growing up, I always thought of a Jedi Knight as this holy warrior, who was always protected by the power of the force, and who could never die. For some reason, I always thought of them as immortal. :( Now, Lucas has all but erased that aura of invincibility with AOTC. Jedi Knights can die; it's sad but true. :cry:

MikeAndTheBots
05-19-2002, 08:31 PM
Originally posted by Darth_Growl
Last night I was entirely blown away by the movie. It was definitly worth the one hour wait that I had to endure, but I guess it's all part of the experience, right? hehehe! One thing I noticed after watching AOTC is that Jedi Knights can be killed as easily as a storm trooper, which to me is kind of sad. Growing up, I always thought of a Jedi Knight as this holy warrior, who was always protected by the power of the force, and who could never die. For some reason, I always thought of them as immortal. :( Now, Lucas has all but erased that aura of invincibility with AOTC. Jedi Knights can die; it's sad but true. :cry:
Remember episode one when anakin says "but no one can kill a jedi" and qui-gon says somehting (i think) and gives him a look. So they were always able to die.

chewie
05-19-2002, 08:33 PM
Yah. Even with the power of the force and a lightsaber as your weapon, it still isn't much help against thousands of droids shooting at you in all directions. I would have thought more jedi would have at least attempted to use force lifting powers to wipe out scores of droids at a time, but I didn't see that happening. Guess it takes too much concentration during battle to attempt such things.

Quite mortal beings with supernatural powers are still quite mortal beings.

Beast
05-19-2002, 08:36 PM
Not to mention they were horribly outnumbered in the battle. It's suprising that any of them survived, when there were battle droids firing at them from all sides. You can't deflect shots coming at you from multiple directions at once. Remeber, Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon only faced around 6-8 Battle Droids at a time in Episode 1. And had to run from only 2 Destroyer Droids. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Eternal Padawan
05-20-2002, 02:05 AM
Upon repeated viewings, the one thing I noticed was that the Jedi in the background are moving verrrrry slowly, considering theres "thousands" of battledroids attacking.

I think this is because george was trying to cut down on animation time/resources and a background lightsaber that only moves a few times is easier to insert than a flailing blade attacking "thousands" of droids.

Still, it looks goofy if you're concentrating on the background Jedi action rather than the foreground narrative.

2-1B
05-20-2002, 02:59 AM
If they were so invincible and immortal, I'd think a few more would be alive during ANH. :D

Did ya catch the twin-sabered Jedi that thrusts a blade into a fallen battle droid? That was one of the poorer background shots for me.

SQueek
05-20-2002, 07:05 AM
also if this has already made 114 million dollars i think lucas can take a few more minutes to have the backround guys animated better

lunchymeatball
05-20-2002, 07:19 AM
On first viewing I thought that the arena battle was just plain awesome:D
In a Father son type of moment my son turned to me and said that he wanted to be a Jedi in the arena and I thought God I'd love to be in the arena with my (imaginary) lightsabre kicking battle droid ***.
maybe Jedi's can be killed by mere mortal blasters but doesnt that mean we can connect with them easier and they aren't immortal God like beings.
I didnt feel let down that it was basically a Jedi cull, it just made want to be there more:D

Lman316
05-20-2002, 09:26 AM
Not to mention they were horribly outnumbered in the battle

Ah, but there was one (Jedi) that wasn't. At least, in a way, he wasn't.
There was a part where a Jedi jumped up the balcony to attack Dooku. But before that Jedi could do anything, Jango opened fire and shot him down, making him fall off the balcony to his death.
That was only two blasters and one opponent. That Jedi should have been able to block those shots - at least that's what I thought. I just see him as a weak Jedi, lol :crazed:
However, had he survived Jango's blasting, he more than likely would have been killed by Dooku anyway. So, I guess it was only a matter of time :p .

stillakid
05-20-2002, 09:33 AM
Originally posted by JarJarBinks
Not to mention they were horribly outnumbered in the battle. It's suprising that any of them survived, when there were battle droids firing at them from all sides. You can't deflect shots coming at you from multiple directions at once. Remeber, Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon only faced around 6-8 Battle Droids at a time in Episode 1. And had to run from only 2 Destroyer Droids. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks


This question occurred to me the second time I watched it: where are the rest of the Jedi? How many are there total? Why wouldn't the Council call in the battalions or was this assumed to be a quick in and out rescue mission? If that's the case, then why would Yoda bring the Clone army? So, assuming that the Jedi Council knew that it would be a big battle, where were the rest of Jedi?

Darth_Growl
05-20-2002, 10:18 AM
Well, as I recall, Mace Windu told Yoda before they departed to Geonosis that he was going to round up whatever Jedi he could , and Yoda was going to visit the Clone army on Kamino. I'm sure there are thousands of Jedi in the Galaxy, but even then, it's a huge galaxy and the Jedi Knights are probably spread very thin in this time of turmoil.

Taichi
05-20-2002, 10:20 AM
Originally posted by Lman316


Ah, but there was one (Jedi) that wasn't. At least, in a way, he wasn't.
There was a part where a Jedi jumped up the balcony to attack Dooku. But before that Jedi could do anything, Jango opened fire and shot him down, making him fall off the balcony to his death.
That was only two blasters and one opponent. That Jedi should have been able to block those shots - at least that's what I thought. I just see him as a weak Jedi, lol :crazed:
However, had he survived Jango's blasting, he more than likely would have been killed by Dooku anyway. So, I guess it was only a matter of time :p .

That "Weak Jedi" was Coleman Trebor......


A COUNCIL MEMBER!!!!

Lman316
05-20-2002, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by Taichi


That "Weak Jedi" was Coleman Trebor......


A COUNCIL MEMBER!!!!

Wow, really? I knew that there was some kind of irony there, but I didn't know that.
The council must let just anyone in... :crazed:

Darth_Growl
05-20-2002, 10:32 AM
A council memeber was dispatched that easily?! Hmm...I guess Yoda was right; the Jedi Knights ability to use the force is beginning to diminish. It's kind of disturbing how just one Sith has managed to neutralize most if not all the Jedi including Yoda. I can't wait to read the novel.

Beast
05-20-2002, 12:05 PM
Originally posted by stillakid
This question occurred to me the second time I watched it: where are the rest of the Jedi? How many are there total? Why wouldn't the Council call in the battalions or was this assumed to be a quick in and out rescue mission? If that's the case, then why would Yoda bring the Clone army? So, assuming that the Jedi Council knew that it would be a big battle, where were the rest of Jedi?
It's explained in the visual dictionary, that there are 9000+ Jedi's spread thought the galaxy on assignments. Only around 200 or so are available for emergancy missions. Mace and Yoda thought all they were going to face was tons of Geonosians and possibly some Battle Droids. They were overconfident that they would be able to handle it. Yoda went to Kamino, as a Jedi was needed to claim the Clone Army, since one supposedly ordered them. He brought them to Geonosis, since he figured they might be needed. I don't think the Jedi's foresaw the massive numbers of Battle Droids, Destroyer Droids, or the new Super Battle Droids. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

stillakid
05-20-2002, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by JarJarBinks

It's explained in the visual dictionary, that there are 9000+ Jedi's spread thought the galaxy on assignments. Only around 200 or so are available for emergancy missions. Mace and Yoda thought all they were going to face was tons of Geonosians and possibly some Battle Droids. They were overconfident that they would be able to handle it. Yoda went to Kamino, as a Jedi was needed to claim the Clone Army, since one supposedly ordered them. He brought them to Geonosis, since he figured they might be needed. I don't think the Jedi's foresaw the massive numbers of Battle Droids, Destroyer Droids, or the new Super Battle Droids. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

So if that's the case, what is Yoda's motivation for bringing that huge army with him? He would have assumed, like the others, that those few Jedi could handle it?

Jedi Clint
05-20-2002, 12:34 PM
The Jedi simply made it to Geonosis before Yoda and the clone army.

pthfnder89
05-20-2002, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by Jedi Clint
The Jedi simply made it to Geonosis before Yoda and the clone army.
Plus, Mace and the other Jedi weren't going there to fight the entire Seperatist Army. They were going to save Padme, Anakin, and Obi Wan. They didn't know exactly what kind of opposition to expect at first, and it turned out to be stronger than anticipated.


Originally posted by SQueek
also if this has already made 114 million dollars i think lucas can take a few more minutes to have the backround guys animated better


The Jedi in the background weren't animted. They were real actors doing real stunts and composited into the Arena. I think this goes for most of the background Jedi I saw. Whenever there was a CGI Jedi like Coleman Trebor or the Howard the Duck fellow, they were up front and obvious.

Beast
05-20-2002, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by pthfnder89
Plus, Mace and the other Jedi weren't going there to fight the entire Seperatist Army. They were going to save Padme, Anakin, and Obi Wan. They didn't know exactly what kind of opposition to expect at first, and it turned out to be stronger than anticipated.
Not to mention, they only really expected to have to save Obi-Wan Kenobi and then get the heck out of there. But Padme and Anakin where there as well, against Mace's strict orders. I wonder if lil Ani is gonna get his head chewed off for it. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

pthfnder89
05-20-2002, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by JarJarBinks

Not to mention, they only really expected to have to save Obi-Wan Kenobi and then get the heck out of there. But Padme and Anakin where there as well, against Mace's strict orders. I wonder if lil Ani is gonna get his head chewed off for it. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks


Exactly my point. They weren't planning on sticking around and facing off against the Seperatist Army. They were there for a single rescue mission, and then possibly assisting the Clone Army once Yoda showed up. They basically got stuck against their wishes.

stillakid
05-20-2002, 01:09 PM
So what you're saying is that Yoda intended to bring the army to the planet anyway, not as part of the rescue?

Jedi Clint
05-20-2002, 02:36 PM
I understand your question stillakid. JJB supplied the information to answer it originally. Let me see if I can bridge the gap here. Two hundred Jedi were available to go to Geonosis out of around nine thousand total scattered across the galaxy. Mace took those he could gather and headed straight for Geo to rescue Kenobi AND stop the Separatist movement (Kenobi reported many leaders of this movement, including Dooku, were on Geonosis in his final report) and it's battle droid creation before it could gather enough momentum to overtake the Republic. Yoda (knowing that the Jedi would face great odds) stopped on Kamino and gathered the clones that were ready for battle. They knew they were in for a fight. Why else would they bring the clones?

artdoesart
05-20-2002, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by Caesar
If they were so invincible and immortal, I'd think a few more would be alive during ANH. :D

Did ya catch the twin-sabered Jedi that thrusts a blade into a fallen battle droid? That was one of the poorer background shots for me.

well consider this... once ani become vader and has millions of clone troppers/storm troopers at his disposal, well its not hard to hunt down anyone.. sure the jedi are powerful and are the "****" but remember they are not GODS or SUPERHUMAN... a hundred clone troopers let alone battle droids is enough to kill almost anyone...

likewise take for instance, in todays terms... bruce lee who is unrivaled as the kind of karate and what not, would in real life probably get his *** kicked if he were to fight 3-5 ecxperienced fighters realistically. sure one-on-one he was GOD but when you are outnumbered or grossly outnumbered what can one expect...

hence... darth vader with 1,000's of clone troopers hunting door to door for jedi is not hard, and yes do eventually lead to their extinction...

2-1B
05-21-2002, 12:45 AM
Yes Art, that's exactly my point :)
Darth Growl started the thread by saying that he always thought of them as immortal / invincible, and I thought it was odd because they were gone by ANH so how could a viewer think they were invincible? :crazed: