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View Full Version : Schmi's Death, Plot of Palpitine?????



scruffziller
05-20-2002, 05:01 PM
Anyone think so?????

JediDan
05-20-2002, 05:36 PM
Sure now you got me thinking. ;) I never thought of it, but I would doubt Palpatine is behind it. Makes a person think though, Palpatine would know that the death of Anakin's mom would bring out the hate in him. Things that make you go hmmm.

Mandalorian Candidat
05-20-2002, 05:40 PM
No. Why wouldn't Palpatine just kill the mom or at least tell Ani that his mom was kidnapped so he would be sure to go berzerk?

At this point Palpatine should know of ani's brazenness and his potential to be turned. But why would he want Ani at this point to be a Sith? He already has Dooku. By EP3, Ani should be powerful enough to take over for Dooku and Palpatine will have all that time between 2 and 3 to bend his ear.

kadamontaga
05-20-2002, 05:45 PM
I think Palpatine had an eye on Anakin anyway. He noticed and commented on his kick-*** jedi skills. Also, being all sith-ed up and stuff he could probably sense Anakin's anger and saw the potential.

The death of Anakin's mum is just an unfortunate occurance that influences Anakin turning to the dark side. If his mum hadn't been killed would he have still turned?....

(I hope that makes sense!):)

Katy (One half of Kadamontaga)

Dryanta
05-20-2002, 05:47 PM
Hmmmm.I've only seen it once so if my factoids are little off please forgive me.While I don't think Palpy was directly behind it,I wonder if he wasn't aware of the situation and was eager to use it to his advantage.Anakin said he couldn't sleep because of dreams about his mother.And Palpy wants Ani sent to Naboo with Padme.Now this idea may have had more than one motive.If Ani was some what aware that his mother was in trouble,then Palpy may have been too.If he could keep Ani away from Tatooine just a little longer she'd die and help push Anakin along Palpy's path.What do you all think?Any merit to this idea?

scruffziller
05-20-2002, 06:59 PM
Yes, I think old Palpy has got his fingers in everything we are seeing take form. And probably in ways that aren't so obvious, but may be revealed in EPS 3 or in novels.

Jedi Clint
05-20-2002, 07:37 PM
Did we watch the same movie? Palpatine had nothing to do with her death.

Bosskman
05-20-2002, 08:02 PM
Palpy might have something to do with Shmi's death, although I doubt it. I wouldn't be surprised if he did though. I'm gonna keep an open mind on that one though. I'm SURE he had something to do with Anakin's protecting of Padme on Naboo. He knows that attatchment is forbidden for the Jedi and that Anakin's involvment with Padme, who he's been manipulating from both sides since TPM, is bound to stir up feelings in Anakin that will turn him to the dark side. Why else would he assign Obi Wan (and therefore Anakin by default) to protect her. He could care less for her safety. He KNOWS Anakin has always had feelings for her, he can sense it, he's a freakin master of the force!! For this reason, I think that it is also POSSIBLE that, when EIII rolls around, we could be shown that Palpy had a hand in Shmi's demise somehow. The fact that, as far as we know, Tuskens kill anyone around them who's not a Tusken makes me lean towards Shmi's death as a coincidence, since I can't se the Tuskens making a deal with anyone based on what they've been shown as in the movies so far.

hango fett
05-20-2002, 08:09 PM
i don't really know. i mean, how would he be able to talk to the tuskens and tell them "go after her and i will reward you handsomly." but, you know george. he can make anything happen that he wants. but i think all of this will be unraveled in E3. just have to wait ANOTHER 3 years...

RooJay
05-20-2002, 08:49 PM
I honestly think there might be something there. I won't say that I think this is the case for certain, but I think it's quite possible that Palpatine may even have had a hand in this. Ever since I had first heard descriptions of Shmi's death months ago I thought there seemed to be more to it. Why would the Tusken Raiders kidnap her? Why wouldn't they have tried to capture any of the members of her search party and make them prisoners as well? Where and how did the rumor that Aurra Sing would be involved in her death originate? What reason would they have had to keep her around for a month?
Getting back to the Aurra Sing rumor (whether anyone likes her or not), Lucas DID say that he planned to use her in Ep. 2. He even said that she was to play a major part in the story. I think it is entirely possible that the rumor may have started as fact. Again, please keep in mind that this is pure speculation on my part based on what little evidence there is, and is in no way based on any level of appreciation I may or may not have for the character. Part of the rumor stated that Aurra Sing was to have been secretly hired by Plapatine to kidnap Shmi and frame the Tusken's for her death in order to give Anakin a starting shove down the dark path. One of the rumors I'd heard was that Aurra Sing was to have kidnapped Shmi with the help of a band of bounty hunters while disguised as Tusken Raiders, and then leave her for dead near a Tusken encampment. Supposedly (according to the rumors) the Tusken's were to have discovered her and would've attempted to nurse her back to health (which admittedly wouldn't explain why they would've kept her tied to that frame the way she was, but honestly, what do we know about Tusken medicine? Maybe the frame was used in some kind of healing ritual). Anakin would later discover the encampment and, not knowing a whole lot about Tusken Raider culture, assume that they actually were the one's responsible, which would lead to his viciously and cruelly slaughtering the whole tribe. I think if Anakin were to discover this was the case in Ep. 3 that the guilt alone would go a long way toward pushing him MUCH closer to the Dark Side! In fact, what if Palpatine were able to convince Anakin that the Jedi had hired Sing to kill Shmi (fans of the EU know that Aurra Sing is supposed to have had ties to the Jedi order in the past. In some of the comics she's even had dealings with the Tusken Raiders in the past!) in order to eliminate Anakin's ties to his past. He might possibly be convinced that the Jedi Council had seen his connection to his mother (and his LOVE for her) as an obstacle to his training and the fulfillment of their prophecy. Did Lucas film scenes with Aurra Sing that revealed her to be the real killer of Shmi? Did he decide to leave that fact a mystery to be revealed in Ep. 3? If so, then WILL we learn the truth in Ep. 3, or did Lucas decide not to take the story this direction and just cut the scene's he might've filmed, thus eliminating them from the story entirely? An interesting theory, think. Please remember, though, that I submit this post ONLY as theory, and do not imply that I think that any of this is gospel or not. Might be interesting to see play out though.

Jedi Clint
05-20-2002, 09:10 PM
How can you frame someone for murder if the victim is still alive?

Lord Tenebrous
05-20-2002, 09:25 PM
This discussion is far from new, in fact, there was a spy report on it as far back as October of 2001...




We've heard a lot about the plot of Episode II, but so far there has been no indication of an earth shattering "Luke, I am your father" type of revelation in the movie. However, a new spy named Earthmonkey has checked in. He has sent us several reports in the past which we never posted, but they ended up being true. He also sent us this latest report, but we haven't yet confirmed it with other spies. If what he says is true, it could be the major twist of AOTC. If not, it's still interesting.



Full link: http://cgi.theforce.net/theforce/tfn.cgi?storyID=12670

Darth Sinister
05-20-2002, 11:50 PM
Of course Palpatine had something to do with it. Why do you think she was kept alive all that time. If yoda and the other members of the council new in EP 1 that Anakin's thoughts dwelled on his mother, I'm sure the Sith Master knew this as well. Yoda is keeping an eye an Anakin, Palpy is too.....though they didn't show it, you know Sidious had a smile on his face at the same time Yoda had that sad look.

Anakin will blame Obi-Wan and the Jedi order for holding him back and not letting him trust his feelings.....something Paply told him he should be able to do. All of that it not coincidense. I had the feeling when I first saw it that she was kept alive for a reason. With his mother gone, the only other person keeping him stable his Padme and you know Sidious has a plan for that as well. Stay tuned!!!!!!!!

DarthBrandon
05-20-2002, 11:55 PM
Palpatine had nothing to do with Anakins mothers death period.

Obi-Don
05-21-2002, 12:10 AM
No I don't think he had anything to do with it,but I believe he will take advange of it.

2-1B
05-21-2002, 12:22 AM
Palps was not behind Anakin's trip to Naboo, we can thank the "wisdom" of Mace Windu and his cohorts for that blunder. :D

The only influence Palps may have had is in his advice to trust your feelings. Anakin is obviously not ready to always do that, and it carries over into how he copes with his mother's death.

No, this was not a plot of Palpatine. But like the leacherous creep he is, he'll certainly latch onto the tragedy.

Darth Sinister
05-21-2002, 12:25 AM
In case it hasn't been noticed yet.......EVERYTHING that happens in these prequels is because of Palpatine. He created the problem on Naboo to get into power...creates a clone army 10 YEARS in advance because he has his apprentice create a sepratist movement that he uses the clone army to squash. This army will eventually be used against the Jedi because they will try to oust him from power because "somehow" they found out a Sith was in charge of the Senate. The Jedi will be seen as traitors and be extiguished.

And then.....you have the most powerful Jedi ever laying at your doorstep who is filled with anger, fear and hate waiting to be released. Lets see, how could a Sith Master manipulate things so that such a powerful source goes to his side like he did the rest of the galactic republic.

The idea of the Tuskens just happening to take Anakin's mother and keeping her alive for some reason while killing everyone that tries to rescue her is rediculous. They kept her alive for a month....why??? Everyone is a pawn in a epic game of chess.

Jedi Clint
05-21-2002, 12:43 AM
In the novel it says that they kept her alive because that is how they test the strength of their enemies. Shmi lasted a month because she "knew" that she would see her son again. No one has been able to answer the following question:

How can you frame someone for murder if the victim is still alive?

It sure isn't a very well conceived plan. There weren't any hints or suggestions that Palpatine had any part in her death either in the film or in the novel. Raiders are mean spirited monsters. They took a human woman from the moisture farming community and tested her to see how long she would last before she broke.

Pendo
05-21-2002, 11:39 AM
Palpy had nothing to do with Shmi's death, and even if he did I don't know how it could be revealed in Episode 3 without confusing people. There was nothing in Episode II to say that Palpatine had anything to do with it. Aura Sing doesn't even show up like reported so I guess that side of the story is gone.
Anyway, I like the idea of the Tuskens killing her, it makes them look more evil so the attack on Luke in Episode IV will be more exciting.

PENDO!

icatch9
05-21-2002, 12:52 PM
The biggest trick the Emporer ever pulled was makeing us think he's not behind it all. None of us realize how powerful the emperor is. Only he could will the force over such great distances. Do you really think all this that has happened is by accedint. Think this, I do not. The emperers plan is comeing together perfectly. Dooku is the Emperors chump. He's just useing him to do his bidding. The Emperor plan is so complex it is near impossible to see. It would not be confusing the figure out that he was controlling everything.

This will really bake your cookies...... What if it comes to be that he is the one that created Aniken. It was he who caused Shim to become pregnit. Hard to believe this is. Never underestimate the power of the Emperor.

Vader says to Luke: I am your father.

Sidous says to Aniken: I am your father.

Bosskman
05-21-2002, 01:18 PM
icatch9, your theory has been on my mind for a long time now, I wouldn't be surpirsed if it comes true. Palpy is really, really powerful. Moreso than Yoda "Do not undersestimate the powers of the Emperor." Remember that speech. The full extent of his plotting and sceming has not yet been revealed. I don't know what exactly, but I do know that we'll all be in for a surprise in EIII.

RooJay
05-21-2002, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by Jedi Clint
In the novel it says that they kept her alive because that is how they test the strength of their enemies. Shmi lasted a month because she "knew" that she would see her son again. No one has been able to answer the following question:

How can you frame someone for murder if the victim is still alive?

It sure isn't a very well conceived plan. There weren't any hints or suggestions that Palpatine had any part in her death either in the film or in the novel. Raiders are mean spirited monsters. They took a human woman from the moisture farming community and tested her to see how long she would last before she broke.
The original Star Wars novel said that Owen Lars was Ben Kenobi's brother, and we now know that to be completely false. That would also have been a pretty major revelation with major implications for the story in my opinion. Sometimes the authors do their best, but they are not Lucas, and are not always right when it comes to the story.
I for one never said that she HAD to be murdered. All they would've had to do is hurt enough that she would eventually expire from her wounds regardless. Besides, the more pain she was in, the higher the likelyhood that Anakin would feel it. This is actually beside the point that I'm now arguing a side of an argument that I don't personally believe in, even though I think a possibility for it exists.
Remember, there weren't any hints about Yoda or Vader having been Anakin in Ep. 4 either. I think suspicion of the event is enough to bring up the question. Her death seemed very suspicious to me. Of course, now I'm supporting the argument I don't necessarily subscribe to again!:crazed:
Wouldn't it be a major shocker if we THINK the Tusken's are mean spirited monsters and it turns out they're not? Imagine what that'd do to Anakin!

RooJay
05-21-2002, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by icatch9
The biggest trick the Emporer ever pulled was makeing us think he's not behind it all.
You're thinking of Keyser Soze.;) :D

Rogue II
05-21-2002, 02:06 PM
I believe Palpy had set up Shmi tortured. Why not, Vader did it to Han in ESB. He has the power to cloud things with his Dark Side of the Force, sneaky emperor. He got Anakin away from the rest of the Jedi knowing that Anakin's nightmares his mother would take him back to Tatooine.

I think Paply will do it again in EP 2 with Padme, but that's a different thread.

evenflow
05-21-2002, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by Obi-Don
No I don't think he had anything to do with it,but I believe he will take advange of it.


Exactly. I don't think he was behind it.

icatch9
05-21-2002, 04:27 PM
RooJay,

Who is this Keyser Soze? I do not know this name.

Jedi Clint
05-21-2002, 04:40 PM
icatch9,

Keyser is just one of the usual suspects.

RooJay
05-21-2002, 04:44 PM
Keyser Soze was the awesome lead villain in Bryan Singer's film The Usual Suspects. He seems to be manipulating everything from behind the scenes in the film. I won't give away the ending since you obviously haven't seen it, but the reveal of his true identity at the end is CLASSIC! Kevin Spacey says regarding Keyser Soze in the movie, "The greatest trick the Devil (referring to Soze) ever pulled was convincing the world that he doesn't exist.". Your post sounded so much like that line that I thought you were quoting! Seriously though, anyone who hasn't seen the movie should really check it out!

RooJay
05-21-2002, 04:45 PM
WOW, I never really thought about how much Palpatine/ Sidious has in common with Keyser Soze until this! COOL!

scruffziller
05-21-2002, 11:23 PM
I was thinking that if Palpy may not have had anything to do with it directly but may have had a vision of this happening and encorperating it into his plan. Any which way he could he's at work.

2-1B
05-22-2002, 02:17 AM
Yoda and Mace (not Palpatine) were responsible for getting Anakin away from the Jedi.

R2D2DUKFAN
05-22-2002, 12:47 PM
It was NOT Yoda, and Mace's fault for Anakin turning. This is all due to Palpatine. Think about it, the suggestion of Anakin alone watching Amidala on Naboo. The thought of Obi Wan and Anakin looking out for Amidala on Couresant, and most of all the coincidence of Shmi dying at a critical point in Anakin's life. Of course palpatine was behind it.

Darth Sinister
05-22-2002, 09:49 PM
Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!........Palpatine has a hand in everything that is going on. Things are not happeing because of coincedence and everything is going to his design. Why does there have to be clues in THIS movie that he had a hand in it. I don't recall any hints that Vader was Lukes father in ANH and I think it is the consensus of this forum that if it doesn't show up on screen it doesn't matter. The novels are just something for you to spend money on until you see the movie.

Palpatine's overconfindence will come out and he will reveal that he is the ultimate puppetmaster. Two things had to happen to get Anakin to the dark side.....his mom had to suffer and die....and something has to happen to Padme. ONE DOWN, ONE TO GO.

R2D2DUKFAN
05-25-2002, 09:33 AM
You know I never really thought of that in regareds to Anakin turning because of something happening to padme. Now forgive me because I think that Natalie Portman is a goddess, but I think if it wasnt for Padme and the way she acted, I think that Anakin wouldnt have turned out the way he did. Damn why did she have to be sooo hot?![/