PDA

View Full Version : Official Canon?



jjreason
05-22-2002, 05:16 AM
Having done the requisite searches of this forum (which turned up no results) I'd like to know if anyone out there can tell me what actually composes the "Official" Star Wars Canon that keeps getting mentioned. Obviously the movies as they exist until now compose the base of the Canon. When the novel "Shadows of the Empire" came out, I remember it being a big deal because it had been given inclusion in the official canon. Can anyone confirm this? Has anything else beside the 5 movies been granted "real" status by George Lucas? Thanks for any info!

Eternal Padawan
05-22-2002, 09:31 AM
Lucas Licensing is wishy washy about what is ''Canon".

The ONLY things that are canon are the films.

The deleted scenes aren't canon (so technically Biggs never talked to Luke at Anchorhead, the bongo never almost went over a waterfall, etc)
The "fact" guides aren't canon. (Visual Guides, Cross sections etc)
The comics are not canon (Aurra Sing, if that's even her name is just a podrace spectator...)
The video games are not canon.
Not even the Novels of the films are canon. (Obi Wan is not Owen's brother)

ONLY the five (soon to be six) films are canon.

Mandalorian Candidat
05-22-2002, 11:59 AM
I agree with EP, Lucas has said over and over that only the stuff that makes it to the screen is canon. That means...

-Greedo did shoot first but never got beatup by Anakin
-Gasgano never talked
-Ani actually got into a taxi with Padme on Coruscant
-Dexter's butt crack is more real than Prince Xizor

Starfig873
05-22-2002, 12:02 PM
Part of SOTE is canon anyway...the Outrider is in ANH Special Edition. :)
As well as the ASPs and the Swoops.

sith_killer_99
05-22-2002, 12:18 PM
So which is CANNON, the original 1977 release of Star Wars (no A New Hope subtitle) where Han shot first.

Or is the new "Special Edition" with Greedo shooting first?

Or is that backwards? I don't know? Darn Jedi Mind tricks!

I MUST KNOW!!!:eek: ;) :p

Cannon, EU who cares?:crazed: It really all depends on your level of an@l retentivity.:eek:

Highest: MOVIES ONLY (usually the original release), if it wasn't on film it never happened.

Higher: Movies and the Radio Drama.

High: Movies, their novelization and the Radio Drama.

Moderate: Movies, their novelization, the Radio Drama, and closely related novels (Splinter of the Minds Eye, Shadows of the Empire)

Low: Movies, their novelization, the Radio Drama, all novels, ref books.

Lowest: ANYTHING that has a SW logo on it!:D

Man In The Box
05-22-2002, 01:31 PM
Doesnt matter Star Wars isnt real or anything, but I do agree that whats in the movies should be set above whats in the say the books or comics

QLD
05-22-2002, 01:40 PM
For me, everything is canon. Otherwise, why pay attention to the other stuff. I know some don't. However, I read the books and comics, and love them. In fact, they rival the movies to me. If it wasn't for the books, I may have lost interest in SW by now. IMHO, they do a SUPREMELY excellent job in making sure that nothing contradicts itself. There are a few exceptions, but for the most part, it is outstanding. I'll never understand people who get MAD at EU. If you don't like it, don't read it. Just because it's not "canon" for you, doesn't mean it isn't for someone else.

jjreason
05-22-2002, 03:28 PM
I guess that's really it then. Canon is how you see it. In my Star Wars universe, Han shot first. That scene defines Han's character immediately, I can't remember being more surprised in a movie than at ANHSE when I first saw Greedo's gun go off. If you love the books and comics, read away! I find them too much to keep track of, but have enjoyed most of what I've read. Thanks for clearing up my question.

El Chuxter
05-22-2002, 03:38 PM
Everything's canon. . . so long as it doesn't contradict something with "more legitimacy."

EG, Owen Lars is not Obi-Wan's brother (ROTJ novel), but he does have a brother named Owen, whose last name is presumably Kenobi as well (Jedi Apprentice series).

bigbarada
05-22-2002, 04:20 PM
According to GL, the SEs are canon and the original versions aren't. He stated in the latest Insider that the considers the original theatrical releases of the OT to be incomplete, roughcuts. So in some instances, stuff in the movies becomes un-canonized by later releases. The way I see it, when GL finishes Ep3 and does all the changes he is going to do for the OTs DVD releases; when he does all that then says "Okay, I'm done. That's it." Then and only then can we say that whatever shows up on the DVD releases is canon (except for the cutscenes).

I do get mad at EU for the direction it took the story after ROTJ and some of the crap it pulls (killing Chewie!). Which is exactly why I don't read any of it. I know the general direction of where things are going from Insider articles and such but I will never read any of the post-ROTJ novels. Stuff that takes place within the saga timeline or prior to EP1, I am a little more open to checking out, though.

THE Slayer
05-22-2002, 06:28 PM
I probablly shouldn't even bring this up but,,, what about the ewok movies,, those are star wars movies,, are they cannon? Why shouldn't they be? except for the reason 'everyone hates ewoks.'

sith_killer_99
05-22-2002, 10:51 PM
Or what about the HOLIDAY SPECIAL?:eek: :eek: :eek:

I think GL still denies it's very existance.;)

BigB, too bad about those novels. I personally thought the Zahn Trillogy was AWESOME. He is by far the best SW author to date IMHO.

I do understand peoples frustration with some of the novels, especially the NJO series. Though I enjoy them, they are a bit, UH, well...?

They killed Chewie! You B@stards!:eek:

Eternal Padawan
05-22-2002, 11:10 PM
I wouldn't dismiss Chewie's death out of hand like that. The conflict it set up between the other characters (Specifically Han blaming Anakin and then withdrawing emotionally from everyone) is some of the most emotional storytelling I've read. Besides, every great legend has an ending. Robin Hood shot the arrow out the window as he died, Authur in final battle with his son. Chewie has reached that plateau. If you don't think of the EU as Star Wars, that's fine. But still read them for the great fiction that they are (the good ones anyway. Leave Kevin Anderson's crap on the shelf...)

I would definitely put the Ewok movies and Holiday special in the NON-canon category.

bigbarada
05-23-2002, 12:54 AM
I started reading "Heir to the Empire" a few months back, but only got about a third of the way through before I quit. Nothing about it really captured my interest and the whole Luuke thing was laughably stupid.

I also tried reading Vector Prime but had to stop after only a couple chapters. I despised Mara Jade's character and just felt that the whole direction they were taking the story was completely wrong.

I don't know, I guess after Vader's death, I just felt that there really was no reason to drag everything out.

EU novels I did like were SOTE, the AC Crispin Han Solo books, the old Han Solo books from the 70s, the Jedi Apprentice books and Rogue Planet. I want to check out The Approaching Storm and Cloak of Deception and the Ep2 novelization; but for now that's all that interests me.

I think it would have been better if they had killed off Han and focused on Chewie's reaction.:D

Beast
05-23-2002, 12:58 AM
Originally posted by bigbarada
I think it would have been better if they had killed off Han and focused on Chewie's reaction.:D
Nah, they should have killed Leia off, so that Han can go back to being the charming rogue smuggler, instead of Mr. Mom. Ugh, he's so whipped now. :p :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

bigbarada
05-23-2002, 02:38 AM
lol, Jar Jar!:D

For the record, I don't hold it against anyone if they like EU stuff. It's done a good job of keeping interest alive after the movies. I just don't particularly like the post ROTJ timeline.

sith_killer_99
05-23-2002, 08:45 AM
LOL, Chewie's reaction to Han's death!:eek:

BigB Cloak of Deception is a truely exceptional book.

As for the Zahn stuff, I agree the Luuke (cloan thing) was bad. What I did like was the way that Zahn was able to setstuff up thoughout the 3 novels and you see how it develops and comes together. Zahn played Thrawns' character out PERFECTLY. In fact he is my all-time favorite EU character! All due to Zahn's great story-telling!

Mandalorian Candidat
05-23-2002, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by bigbarada
novels I did like were SOTE, the AC Crispin Han Solo books, the old Han Solo books from the 70s, the Jedi Apprentice books and Rogue Planet. I want to check out The Approaching Storm and Cloak of Deception and the Ep2 novelization; but for now that's all that interests me.


Yes! SOTE was a good story and I really enjoyed it. The old and new HS books were done very well; I liked how AC Crispin had the frame of mind to include the old adventures in his story arc, plus including ANH lead-in material. I would also include Splinter of the Mind's Eye (though its ending isn't contiguous with the rest of the OT) and the Lando stories. I've only read the Mindharp (?) of Sharu and not the other two books.

I also really enjoyed Darksaber because it delved a lot into the Emperor behind the scenes before and after ANH.

As far as the NJO goes, I've had no interest in reading them. Can't say exactly why, I just don't care. Although I did enjoy Zahn's last two books of the older series.

QLD
05-23-2002, 12:58 PM
I was fine with Chewbacca as being the one killed off.

He had become nothing more than a glorified babysitter.

sith_killer_99
05-23-2002, 01:28 PM
MC, Zahn's last two books before the NJO series (Specter of the Past and Visions of the Future)REALLY lays a lot of ground work for the future NJO series.

Starfig873
05-23-2002, 10:22 PM
I love the Thrawn trilogy, and the Hand of Thrawn books. They were indeed, very well done.
SOTE will always be loved by me. Dash Rendar was too cool a character to dismiss. :) In my opinion, of course.

As for Chewie's death, at first I hated the idea. After reading Vector Prime I was bewildered. But now I accept it, and felt it was a good way to start off the New Jedi Order. Something that grabs your attention.

JediTricks
05-24-2002, 04:33 AM
I like some of the EU, not most, but some. However, I only accept the movies as canon - especially for discussion issues - but I also have my own little "EU" going on to back up the canon that intermingles various sources and my own theories. For example, I have a big theory on midichlorians being totally not what Qui-Gon said, about Qui-Gon being not totally with the light side, I buy the "flashback seal" issue on the sabers from Ep 1, other stuff like that.

I think there are 2 different levels: my personal SW path, and the foundation for that, the films. I wouldn't assume my personal take on the SW universe is the same as everybody else's, but when Lucas says the films are the only canon, the I have a common ground to discuss issues of SW.

bigbarada
05-24-2002, 05:42 AM
Originally posted by Quite-Long Dong
I was fine with Chewbacca as being the one killed off.

He had become nothing more than a glorified babysitter.

I blame that on the writers.

JediTricks
05-24-2002, 06:38 PM
BB, when they announced they were gonna kill off a main character, I knew it was either gonna be Lando or Chewie since I think the writers simply didn't know how to write for either of those 2 characters.

Eternal Padawan
05-25-2002, 09:32 AM
Originally posted by JediTricks
BB, when they announced they were gonna kill off a main character, I knew it was either gonna be Lando or Chewie since I think the writers simply didn't know how to write for either of those 2 characters.

And they still don't. I hope Lando is the next major character to get offed simply to put him out of his narrative misery.