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View Full Version : Empire won! Now which of these FOUR is your favorite SW movie?



Tycho
05-24-2002, 01:25 AM
You wanted it, and you've got it: a way to rank the movies.

Our previous poll asked you to pick a favorite of all the films out there now. You picked THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK!

But that did not RANK the movies as to which of them is our favorites "By What Order!"

Since a majority of the voters picked "Empire," we still have no idea what their next favorite movie is.

So now you choose amongst these:

The Phantom Menace
Attack of the Clones
A New Hope
Return of the Jedi

Select your favorite and please post a quick note which one you chose at the very least. Now the discussion can continue.

DarthBrandon
05-24-2002, 01:32 AM
Liked this one second cause it rocked right behind Empire in my opinion. Good action,good story plot, and it just plain rocked, seen
it four times already.

Tycho
05-24-2002, 01:34 AM
I picked Attack of the Clones! It's the only one of these to make me cry.

There was some powerful stuff in those 2 1/2 hours!

Powerful stuff!

browndroid
05-24-2002, 01:48 AM
AOTC, i really liked the movie

2-1B
05-24-2002, 02:05 AM
AOTC is my favorite as posted in the other thread, and since ESB won I hope to see the Clones take second place. So I am voting AOTC.

Tycho, I too teared up during this movie! :cry:

JediTricks
05-24-2002, 02:09 AM
Whoa whoa whoa! The other poll isn't OVER for 2 more days...

bigbarada
05-24-2002, 03:24 AM
Well, I voted for AOTC.......again.

Anyways, as I've stated before, AOTC is my favorite and everything else just takes second banana.

Wow! AOTC has 100% of the votes right now. Kewl!

I too got a little teary eyed during parts of this movie. You could really feel what Anakin was going through when he lost his mother. It hit me much harder than Luke's loss in ANH, although that is probably because we had an entire movie to get to know Shmi before she died, and Pernilla August did an amazing job of making us care about her character in TPM.

However, I will say that, after having seen AOTC, I rewatched ANH today and felt a little lump in my throat when I saw the burning homestead. In fact Ep1 and 2 have greatly enhanced my enjoyment of Ep4. I can pick out so many little nuances that are a result of knowing what happened before. Obi-Wan's shifty eyes when explaining about Luke's father. Owen watching Artoo roll off after buying him, probably thinking to himself, "I hope that's not the droid I think it is."

JediTricks
05-24-2002, 03:44 AM
My favorite is still ANH.

kadamontaga
05-24-2002, 04:12 AM
AOTC is my favourite of the 4 by a very long way.

Rogue II
05-24-2002, 08:29 AM
I like ANH almost as much as ESB. If ANH wasn't any good, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now.

As for ATOC, I still need to see it a few more times, so it will sit tied for 3rd with ROTJ.

stormie
05-24-2002, 03:29 PM
A New Hope is my favorite of all, so I voted for it again. However, my vote should be asterisked since I have yet to see AOTC. But I'm confident that ANH will still be my favorite even after I see AOTC.

Tycho
05-24-2002, 03:36 PM
LOL - Stormie, we better see YOU post in this thread again. Meanwhile, you're missing a great movie!

Jonna
05-24-2002, 03:47 PM
Of course Empire won. It is by far the best movie as far as emotion, drama and mood goes. Second in line, I would have to say A New Hope. ATOC was fun, but the new movies don't draw me in like the old ones.

stormie
05-24-2002, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by Tycho
LOL - Stormie, we better see YOU post in this thread again. Meanwhile, you're missing a great movie!

:)Oh, yeah. I'll definitely post again after I see it. Hopefully soon!

At least I've got all the toys! ;)

bandontherun
05-24-2002, 05:32 PM
Unfortunately I haven't seen AOTC yet (hopefully this weekend). But I don't think it can beat Jedi.

Andto Rivben
05-25-2002, 11:33 PM
A New Hope! Should have been ranked #1.

Pendo
05-26-2002, 12:03 PM
A New Hope gets my vote of best out of these 4. I'm glad ESB won the last poll, it's by far the best :D.

PENDO!

DarthBrandon
05-26-2002, 12:30 PM
ATOC Baby !

InsaneJediGirl
05-26-2002, 12:32 PM
AOTC is the 2nd best(Empire begin #1).A very moving story..and dark,similar to ESB.:D

The True Maul
05-26-2002, 01:17 PM
AOTC, Hard becuase I really like the Phantom Menace.

Darth_Stevious
05-27-2002, 01:57 PM
Star Wars (A New Hope to you young folks) is still far better than AOTC in many aspects.

And just in case you are keeping track my list goes like this:
1) The Empire Strikes Back
2) Star Wars: A New Hope
3) Attack of the Clones
4) Return of the Jedi (could have been 3rd if not for those blasted Ewoks!)
5) The Phantom Menace

SithDroid
05-27-2002, 03:25 PM
My list is the same as yours Darth_Stevious. If A New Hope loses this one to AOTC I will be extremely upset. It was the original Star Wars and set everything up for the other movies. Plus the story is way more interesting.

sith_killer_99
05-27-2002, 06:03 PM
AOTC #2???????

Argh, I HAVE to go with Jedi on this one. Next I would say ANH.

I still feel that the OT has yet to be outdone. AOTC gave it a run for it's money, but still falls short.

The thing that killed it for me was the acting. Nat and Hayden just couldn't pull it off. They didn't get the job done. Their no Han and Leia.:p

plasticfetish
05-27-2002, 08:48 PM
This is a great poll, because it asks "which is your favorite?" ... but it doesn't really ask for a serious critical evaluation of any of these movies. I picked A New Hope as my #2 favorite (for the reasons I stated in the last poll) right behind ESB.
I'll admit, I enjoyed AOTC very much (it ranks a close 3rd) and look forward to enjoying it for years to come ... but, again ANH has its history with me and that alone puts it in a place of honor.

Not to mention, I love the way that movie looks and have a huge appreciation for what it accomplished for a major fraction of what the later movies cost. We wouldn't be doing this now if that movie hadn't been what it was or if it hadn't have had the effect that it did on fans everywhere.

plo koon 200
05-27-2002, 08:58 PM
The first poll I voted for ROTJ but now AOTC has grown on me and is my favorite Star Wars movie of all of them.

Quite-Gone Jim
05-28-2002, 07:35 AM
I saw AOTC again this weekend, and I must admit I loved it more the second time.

But ANH is still going to be #2 for me. It got everything started, and I thought the overall pace of the movie was better than clones.

Wonderboy
05-28-2002, 09:43 AM
Attack of the Clones...

stillakid
05-28-2002, 09:54 AM
Hands down, ANH. STILL a better movie overall than any of the others as it stands alone without having to limp by being propped up by any of the others and it contains all of the elements that ESB fans claim to be the reason they picked that one. It is entertaining from start to finish unlike any of the others which have definite "strong moments" and unfortunate "dead spots."

Runobot
05-28-2002, 10:08 AM
I voted AOTC, but ANH is great. It would be more fair to ask this question in a year, after the hype of AOTC wears off.

Mandalorian Candidat
05-28-2002, 10:41 AM
Did I see the same movie as the rest of you guys? ANH was much better, dialogue-wise, story-wise, and entertainment-wise.

stormie
05-28-2002, 11:33 AM
Okay, finally saw AOTC. As I suspected, ANH is still my favorite...by far. In fact, even though I thoroughly enjoyed AOTC, it just doesn't hold the appeal that the original trilogy does. It's above Ep. I, but behind ESB and ROTJ for me.

sith_killer_99
05-28-2002, 11:38 AM
Right on Stormie!

I'm with you. AOTC was great, just not as good as the original trillogy.

bigpimpjones
05-28-2002, 11:49 AM
It's tough to rank your top five movies of all time (more or less) in order, because of how old I was when I saw the original trilogy. If this question was slightly different (like which one blew you away the most when you first saw it?) or something, my list would be different. But, here it is:

1. Attack of the Clones (whoa. 3 times so far and the final 40 minutes still blows me away)
2. Empire Strikes Back
3. Phantom Menace
4. New Hope
5. Return of the Jedi

-Bigpimpjones

JangoTango
05-28-2002, 12:00 PM
First off-- HELLO??!! Some of you guys voting haven't even seen AOTC yet??!! The movie's only been out for almost two weeks now. WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR??!! :confused:
I can't believe there are such "die-hard" fans out there that haven't even seen it yet. That's why there are midnight showings-- for US fans.

Anyhow, as I begin my fall to the dark side I will now try not to let my feelings interfere on that subject...

Must say that right now AOTC gets my vote. It did have a few flaws, but was the most visually astonishing. Not quite as obvious as TPM's CG scenes, much smoother. I think the main reason for this vote is that the story was a little deeper, and it connected and mimicked alot of the OT. Yes, Hayden and Natalie's acting left me nervous for ep 3. Shmi's death scene was the worst on-screen death l've ever seen (did GL only do one take of this? or just use the worst one?-- also-- would have been nice to see more Tusken butt get cut up). And Padme jumping right up after being knocked out of the Republic Gunship was a little too much-- GL should have at least made the film another 30 seconds longer to show her a little groggy getting up. He also should have left the scene of Padme, Ani, and Dooku in the film. It just jumps from Jango catching them in the Droid Factory to them being led into the arena. Can't wait to see it on the DVD though, if they add the deleted scenes.

I've seen AOTC 6 times now, and ANH well over 100. I think the freshness does sway the vote, but right now it's 2, then 4. (with 6 and 1 rounding out the list). (By the way, I was 6 when ANH was released, so I guess I'm old school). I dunno, ask me again in 20 years!:cool:

Darth Grifter
05-28-2002, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by plasticfetish
This is a great poll, because it asks "which is your favorite?" ... but it doesn't really ask for a serious critical evaluation of any of these movies.

I agree with plasticfetish because, to be critical of the other movies is to deminish their value as a cultural icon that we all worship enough to belong to this website and post, or at least check forums, on a daily basis. Good thought.

I have to say that I voted for AOTC in the first poll and I voted for it again in this poll. I have only seen it twice but I am going again this weekend (after payday). The final 40 minutes just blow my mind. Lucas took Star Wars to a new level with this movie. It opens my eyes to so many questions that were left unfufilled in the OT. It also at the same time hightens my appreciation for the OT and their storyline. I view Darth Vader in an all new light now that I have seen where he came from and the turbulent time that caused him to fall out of faith with the original Jedi Order.

I wasn't dissappointed in the least about ESB winning the first poll because, yes, in many ways, it was an extremely well done movie. The visuals were good, the storyline was great, the original introduction of Jedi training, and the "I am your father" line still brings goosebumps to my skin.

My order still stands:

1) AOTC (Wow! Visuals, Storyline, Development, Foreshadowing. Wow! :eek: )
2) ESB (Great Story, Unbreakable Plotline, Flawless Characters, YODA...:happy: )
3) ANH (Works as a good introduction, however, a little weak on development because of time :) )
4) ROTJ (Cool Movie, Great Ending to the OT, brings everything in full circle and leaves me wanting more, however, Ewoks grate on my skin...:P )
5) TPM (Ewoks may grate on my skin but not as bad as Jar Jar :crazed: . Otherwise an excellent re-introduction to the saga. Thanks George. :D )

Tycho
05-28-2002, 01:30 PM
Keep them coming!

While Clones is my favorite (and I think it should stand the test of time) - Empire is definitely the challenger for me - I will run this poll approximately 1 year after the DVD has come out (so the newness has worn off).

Meaning, we'll do this again around November 2003, or Spring '04 as hype for Episode 3 is still a little ways away.

At the time of the DVD release, Clones will hit another all-time favorite hype.

But meanwhile, it's interesting to hear all of your favorite movies, your theater experiences, and why you like each of these movies!

So keep on posting!

SithDroid
05-28-2002, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by Mandalorian Candidat
Did I see the same movie as the rest of you guys? ANH was much better, dialogue-wise, story-wise, and entertainment-wise.

No kidding. I think that the only reason people are voting for AOTC is because it is new and it is what is hyped up right now. Storywise there wasn't anything great. Nothing that really stood out. Plus the script just doesn't hold up to ANH. I wonder what age all of these people voting for AOTC are? I bet a majority of them are younger and didn't see the OT in the theatre like we all did back in 77-83. Of course, I could be wrong, but it has been my observation that a good majority of the OT generation hold the OT much higher than the prequels. I would give AOTC some credit had it not had the really long and boring "love" scenes in the movie. They were poorly written and, from a writer/actor point of view, they just didn't move me at all and I didn't believe any of it.

Tycho
05-28-2002, 04:54 PM
I saw the OT in the theater since its first showing in May, 1977 and I still like Attack of the Clones the best.

I'm not married, and falling in love still interests me.

ANH and ESB used to waver for my favorite movie. Once in a while ROTJ would get up there if I hadn't seen the space, land, and lightsaber duel scenes in a while, and get longing for them.

TPM was a perfect movie in my opinion too. Liam Neeson was great as Qui-Gon Jinn, and he joins Han Solo amongst characters that really interest me.

Plot-wise though, Clones should have no competition.

Keep in mind that I prefer more complicated plots. The more simplistic it is, the quicker I bore.

One other thing though: (this is with regards to ANH) - nothing can ever replace the feeling us 12-backers got when we first got into SW with that film. Here's why:

A NEW HOPE: - there was nothing like it ever done before. From the first time we heard the music - themed to each important character - to that explosive dark entrance where the good guy-looking 'heroes' like the Fleet Trooper Sergeant just get blown away by seemingly unstoppable stormtroopers, and the desperation of the mysterious Princess, to the bone-crunching snap of Captain Antilles' neck, we realized we were witnessing some serious stuff!

Then the possibilities were endless: would Luke Skywalker become a Jedi and kill Darth Vader? Who would the Princess choose? Luke or Han? What was Darth Vader going to do without a Death Star? Just how big and powerful was the Empire? (was it just those dudes on the Death Star, or where was this Emperor-guy they kept talking about? Was he even human?

EVERY MOVIE AFTER THAT FILLS IN THE DETAILS

We all have some special fondness for our own sequels - where Obi-Wan Kenobi is really Luke's estranged father who came back to do him right for all the guilt he has during his absense. Or (for a kid) where Luke defeats Darth Vader and marries the Princess but then must fight Godzilla and the Shogun Warriors, etc. etc.

Every movie after that changed how we perceived Star Wars. Someone out there didn't want Darth Vader to really be Luke's father. Even after Empire, they were saying that when Luke goes back to ask Yoda, he'll say "no, your father he is not." Some people didn't want the Empire defeated at Endor - Ewoks or not. Just the fact that it was ending hurt Jedi in some fans' minds whether they are aware of it or not. That, and the fact that characters like Han Solo changed (grew in other words) because they effectively erased the crimes of their past.

The Phantom Menace came along and following ROTJ's revealing that Obi-Wan was a pathological liar (from a certain point of view), it also broke the news that Obi-Wan was unprepared to be a Master (he was too young and sort of inherited a kid too early) and Qui-Gon was brought in to establish this and make a link (or more than one, if you count Dooku) to Anakin that Obi-Wan could not escape even if he wanted to. Furthermore, it established that Anakin was too old and tied into 'his world' instead of 'a larger universe' so that his loyalties to his mother and his concepts of practical ends justify the means solutions as well as his competative (show-off, pod racing) nature would be firmly rooted in his character, so pride and any shattering of his self-confidence could be his tragic flaws. People didn't like the changes to their preconceived notions. They also didn't like (or see the importance of) knowing Darth Vader as a 9 year old. Finally, if they did like Qui-Gon, they didn't like him never being mentioned in the OT, nor if he was the hero of TPM, did people like him being killed off all of the sudden. The shock was under appreciated. Oh, and they didn't pick up on Obi-Wan's own stubborn pride - determining when he could take the trials, being jealous of Anakin (he actually was in TPM, though I think he's over it now in spite of what Anakin says), and Obi-Wan's besting Maul at lightsaber skills until he gets in Maul's face nearly killing him...He forgot Maul could call upon the Force and throw Obi-Wan back into the reactor shaft. Obi-Wan's rage at losing Qui-Gon and his arrogance at being better than Maul were of the Dark Side and almost were Obi-Wan's undoing. It's showing that no one's perfect and Obi-Wan overcomes this by remembering his master's training, and quite instantly that his Master's lightsaber is still lying there, but Anakin never takes to that (in later movies). "I've heard this lesson before." Anakin: *bored with Obi-Wan*

TPM might have JarJar to lighten the tone because you need to go darker each movie until you come out of it in ROTJ (just barely - Luke is pushed to the edge and tempted to murder his own father - that's not dark? Ewoks just lighten the mood a little and add some FUN). But TPM did what it needed to do to set this all up and get Palpatine into power, etc. It doesn't have to be your favorite movie, but it shouldn't be hated either.

But I promised to get to plots - and like I said, I prefer the complicated. But here they are anyway:

ANH - Leia has to get the stolen plans to Obi-Wan Kenobi so the Rebels can blow up this Death Star thing. He's their last chance. R2D2 is chosen to carry the message. In R2D2's journey - the first character with a real mission in ANH - he meets Luke Skywalker who has no idea what he's getting caught up in. Obi-Wan does receive the message and recruits Han Solo and Chewbacca to help fly R2D2 to Alderaan. In the process of their journey, they find the Death Star is operational and has destroyed a panet in the Galactic Core in an arrogant and bold display of power, and the mission is made all the more urgent. The good guys are captured, and while Obi-Wan sacrafices himself for the cause, they escape rescuing the Princess and rush up some fighters to destroy the evil space station thing. The heroes find themselves in a larger cause all because they played delivery boys. Any UPS driver knows how this can happen.

ESB - Vader is obsessed with stalking Luke down. We think it's for revenge but later know it's because he's Luke's father and he's obsessed with getting something of his human life back (but we never know how it was stolen from him). Vader is supposed to be evil and we think the same about a lot of dad's who don't take any interest in their children they don't live or care for. So why does the evil guy all the sudden want to play father? Maybe he's lying, maybe he's not, but he wants to overthrow the Emperor and is concerned his Master knows too much. There's obviously some lack of trust between those two. So the plot is simple: Vader assaults Hoth and chases the ship he thinks Luke is on. Instead he captures Han and Leia and somehow he knows that by torturing them, he'll draw Luke to him. He's going to turn Luke evil if he can. That's not nice and it interrupts Luke's "Learn to be a Jedi in less than a week" correspondence course he's taking with ghosts and green midgits and Luke learns the truth about why Vader is stalking him, but pays the price for that information with the loss of his best friend and his right hand.


ROTJ: Luke and all his friends set in motion a plan to rescue Han Solo and they play around finally bringing justice to a planet most of the galaxy could care less about. However, in doing so, Luke brings some measure of goodness to the very same planet his father's life rotted on (but we didn't know that by viewing ROTJ) Shortly thereafter his training mission (in a lot of ways) he visits Yoda and confirms his relationship to Vader. His trial as a Jedi will be to use this to his advantage and confront the evil Lord. Meanwhile, either Palpatine was ordering a fleet of Death Stars to be built, or a new one was a rush job, but it was all to plan a trap for the Alliance against him. He goes there to act as bait, seemingly unaware that Skywalker will interfere, or figuring Luke will be tied up at the Hutt's. (the EU makes the logical motive Palpatine would have for killing Luke while he's at Jabbas a reality - enter Mara Jade, the assasin - actually should've been thought of and added to the movie - but in 1983, though I wouldn't throw up if they did it now with Shannon Baksa and Ian McDiarmid - just do it in a way where she doesn't interact with scenes Mark Hamill never filmed. The EU story goes that way anyway). But back to the story, with Han and Chewie's bungling help, the Rebels enlist the aid of unlikely revolutionaries - the Ewoks - who no one expects to enter into the fray. Because they are primatives, even their sheer numbers are underestimated, and it proves fatal to the Empire keeping their shields up. What happened to overwhelming the enemy with Stormtroopers? The Ewoks' numbers weren't counted amongst the enemy. Just 12 - 20 Rebel Commandos and a command crew of 4. Because the movies had attracted a LOT of kids following it (while Lucas made ANH and ESB for 30-something adults before he was a parent himself), the sheer number of Ewoks who probably died were not shown, and it is only clear that 1 died for certain. Furthermore, besides being entertainment for kids, and a plot device, the Ewoks served to lighten the movie so the last chapter brings you out of the darkness, if just a little, though mind you we have the tragic funeral scene mixed in with the end - which is most likely why Lucas also adds the extra footage to the end sequence (which is enough, btw - don't add Padme!) But the political story and the personal Skywalker story all come to a conclusion, and we have good things to imagine coming out of it, like Han and Leia's love and likely marriage.

TPM - Much more is going on here than the others. There is a Trade Federation blockade of a never-before-heard-of planet and Palpatine we learn is the Senator from there. This blockade is being controlled by the Dark Lord of the Sith, who suspiciously resembles Palpatine as the Emperor, not to mention makes a bunch of references to the Senate. This is causing a situation to arise to cause sympathy for the Senator and he can engineer his own election to the Supreme Chancellor's position. He was probably going to have the Trade Federation's Senator Lott Dodd do that, once they represented Naboo - by treaty (which could not be proven was forced upon the Naboo's young Queen unless it was investigated) but the Queen proved more adept at dodging even the Sith Lord's apprentice who was sent to make sure she cooperated. This was because 2 Jedi interfered. But during the course of their journey, the ship they escape on needs repairs and money will be raised in a side-plot plan that involves a slave boy who Qui-Gon believes might be an extra-special Force-sensitive. The whole situation comes to a resolution but claims Qui-Gon's life, leaving his much-too-young-and-stubborn apprentice with a child that's very inappropriate for Jedi Training, but suspiciously forecasted in an important Jedi prophesy. Palpatine, always looking for advantages, begins to take an interest in the boy. The most of any story could be going on here.

AOTC - Another mysterious situation in the galaxy has a Separatist Movement gaining popularity with the idea of seceeding from the Republic, because it is proposed that democracy on so large of scale does not work because it takes too long to decide things and advance society and the standards of living. Businesses seeking to profit as always, find better chances in perpetuating an arms race in the middle of this debate, because a war would further their profits more than a resolution or even peaceful breakup of the Republic would. They are taking their orders from an Ex-Jedi, Count Dooku, who we later learn was specifically targeted to be recruited by the Sith. And this Dooku, under another name, then secretly recruited a man named Jango Fett to be a genetic template for a Clone Army for the Republic to fight these Separatists with. To get executive emergency powers and make these decisions rather quickly and without interference from pacifists, Palpatine looks for someone he can manipulate while his home planet is against the Republic having an army, while the vote is split 50-50 or thereabouts deadlocked. If Naboo's senator is killed or taken out of the picture, Represenative Binks, a fool, could be manipulated into completely reversing Naboo's position. It could be done without much reservation, since the Trade Federation wants her dead because they are beleagured by her constant lawsuits against them for the deaths they caused on Naboo 10 years ago. So if she's killed by the Separatists and Naboo reverses its position, it will look completely natural - like Naboo now wants retribution. Meanwhile, the bounty hunters used to complete her assasination will be traced back to Kamino by the Jedi - all by design of Palpatine who wants the Jedi to take control of this Clone army so he can implicate them as conspirators in the Clone Wars (since Dooku was once also a Jedi). Palpatine personally selects Obi-Wan to become involved in this, suspiciously with Mace's help. Furthermore, it moves the enigma Palpatine faces - that of Anakin - into a position where he's isolated from Obi-Wan and his feelings will make him vulnerable to the Dark Side. The whole scheme succeeds brilliantly and many Jedi are killed and Palpatine has emergency powers and the Clones are brought out into the public and left at his command. Anakin is on the edge of turning - and the Senator Palpatine wants dead is now the central focus of Anakin's hidden weaknesses in his emotions.

Clones is brilliant - just brilliant!

And like I said, I prefer the more complicated, while I am both old enough to have seen ANH in the theaters on or about May 25, 1977 - though I was a toddler, I also am old enough to UNDERSTAND these films and think about them in terms of the larger story.

Now what do you all think about that? LOL

Hellboy
05-28-2002, 05:45 PM
Tycho I agree with much of what you have to say and feel that AOTC is the best of the 5 movies. ESB is such a close second though but in the end the complexity and foreshadowing in AOTC won me over. I think more people will realize the brilliance and importance of this chapter as time passes.

plasticfetish
05-28-2002, 06:02 PM
Tycho: "We all have some special fondness for our own sequels - where Obi-Wan Kenobi is really Luke's estranged father who came back to do him right for all the guilt he has during his absense. Or (for a kid) where Luke defeats Darth Vader and marries the Princess but then must fight Godzilla and the Shogun Warriors, etc. etc. "

Hahahahahahahaha!

He would have never defeated Godzilla if it weren't for the help of the Micronauts.

bigbarada
05-28-2002, 06:45 PM
Originally posted by SithDroid


No kidding. I think that the only reason people are voting for AOTC is because it is new and it is what is hyped up right now.

I think that the only reason people are voting for OT movies is because they are stuck in the past and refuse to let go.:rolleyes:

See? It does no good to generalize people or try to trivialize their opinion because you do not agree with them. It also just makes you look ignorant.

BTW, I am 29 and I pick AOTC as my favorite of the films. Don't agree? Fine. Hated every minute of it? Fine. All simply your opinion and really has no bearing on mine.

jedi_mindtricks_yoda
05-28-2002, 09:28 PM
I agree with some of you on AOTC. Yodas sceen was great and it had some great scenes but come on Star Wars started it all. If not for Star Wars we would not be at this site or waiting in line for a year to see a movie or in line at midnight to buy toys. Remember the original that happened 25 years ago that made all of this happen. Thats why Star Wars: A New Hope got my vote. I seen it opening day in 1977 and it has been a wild ride. Thank You Mr Lucas for starting a dynasty.

2-1B
05-29-2002, 12:50 AM
I second bigb's post,
I turned 24 recently and Clones is my favorite. Nope, not due to the freshness. TPM was pretty fresh but it couldn't topple any of the classic films for me. And no, my esteem for AOTC is not an overreaction to the "poorness" of TPM since I really like TPM.

SithDroid
05-29-2002, 09:37 AM
Originally posted by bigbarada


I think that the only reason people are voting for OT movies is because they are stuck in the past and refuse to let go.:rolleyes:

See? It does no good to generalize people or try to trivialize their opinion because you do not agree with them. It also just makes you look ignorant.

BTW, I am 29 and I pick AOTC as my favorite of the films. Don't agree? Fine. Hated every minute of it? Fine. All simply your opinion and really has no bearing on mine.

No that isn't why I choose the OT over the prequels. Looking at it from a straight on storytelling POV the prequels are not that great storywise. And that is my opinion. Also I am not ignorant bigbarada. I relaized that others of us from the OT days would pick AOTC as their favorite, that is why in my post I said that MOST of us, not ALL. I think you should read my posts more from now on before posting. You and I usually disagree, but I never call you ignorant for your views. If you like AOTC better, then fine, but there is no need to keep arguing this debate with those of us who feel that the OT is better than the prequels. Posting stuff like what you posted above usually results into arguements, which at this time I'm not willing to get into.

Darth Tornado
05-29-2002, 11:06 AM
How can anyone decide what thier favorite movie is each one has climatic and epic moments that in my opinion make it impossible to select. Such as

1) the trench run in ANH
2) Luke and Vaders battle in ESB
3) Vader grabbing the Emperor and chucking him down the shaft
4) Obi Wan clashing with Darth Maul after Qui Gon gets cut down
5) Yoda taking on Dooku in AOTC
6) THE MUSIC IN ALL OF THEM!!!!!

and the list goes on

Each Episode cant survive without the others each one adds another piece to the puzzle another brush stroke to the painting
the is STAR WARS

PS have you noticed how these prequels dont have much in the ways of space battles like the OT did

JangoTango
05-29-2002, 11:14 AM
Hmmmm.....:rolleyes:

What I really think is going on here is that TYCHO is really a SITH LORD (Darth Tycho, perhaps!?) and is using these polls to pit us all against each other in order to topple the REPUBLIC of POLLS from the inside!:evil:


"everything is going as I have foreseen..."


{BTW, I have found an exact replica of Shmi's death scene amongst the smilies--->:crazed: }

Pendo
05-29-2002, 11:48 AM
it seems like AOTC is winning, how can this be??? I think maybe it might be because it is new. I'm not saying it isn't a good film, but maybe people prefere it because it is newer, fresh in their head and still have that "first showing" feeling to it. Just a thought...

PENDO!

2-1B
05-29-2002, 12:12 PM
Sithdroid, you did say
I think that the only reason people are voting for AOTC is because it is new and it is what is hyped up right now. Immediately a flag went up in my mind because it's a blanket statement, one not true in my case. When I read bigB's post, I only saw it as a complete reversal of that stance, meant to show that we shouldn't generalize.
You did give the "all" not "most" impression . . . to me anyway. :)
And, evidently, to bigbarada. :D

inki4cat
05-29-2002, 03:06 PM
My vote was for AOTC for IMHO it showed that George really cared about the concerns many fans had after TPM. He really tried to create something special, something one could sense intensively in ESB and ANH (at least in some parts). It's been almost a week now since I have first seen AOTC and still it keeps me rather restless and wanting for more and more and more....I felt the plot tightening and sometimes it was so thick you could hardly breath - it was absolutely overwhelming!!!
By the way: the movie I would rank as the "worst" or least thrilling to put it mild is definetly TPM.
All the way through this film I hardly could care for any of the characters. If it wasn't for Liam Neeson who was great as usual I couldn't have cared less. On the other hand I have to admit that I was so full of expectations for the new trilogy that TPM had no chance but to fail to keep up with them...

bigbarada
05-29-2002, 04:41 PM
SithDroid, I didn't say you were ignorant, just that your blanket observation made you LOOK ignorant; as did mine (which was only created as a counter-point to yours and in no way reflects how I really feel).

I saw your statement as a subtle jab at the people who like AOTC better and as a way to try to discredit their opinion, so I turned the tables to see how you would feel about a similar jab. I can see you didn't like being generalized and neither did I with your initial statement. I wasn't trying to start a fight with you just trying to get you to see how pidgeon-holing people for their opinions is really not a fair or logical tactic.

I'm glad you like the OT so much, I'm not insulted or annoyed that our opinions don't match. When it comes right down to it, we are all Star Wars fans, arguing which movie is best is simply apples and oranges.

Tycho
05-29-2002, 05:19 PM
I was in Toys R Us today. (big surprise, right?)

I was getting Palpatine and Djas Puhr action figures.

So was my friend.

So were 2 other collector dudes (older - I'd say in their 30's to 40's).

So were some women, either moms or moms with their children, and a young lady that was probably someone's sister or girlfriend.
(there wasn't time to flirt if you wanted to insure you got a Palpatine and Djas Puhr when the manager brought the new cases out).

This gets relevant to this thread.

One mother was buying 3 JarJar figures - for her kids she said.

The other mother with 2 kids was waiting because they had to bring out Obi-Wan lightsabers and Anakin lightsabers from the back stockroom (only Dooku's was on the floor). She got her kids the lightsabers, but they screamed they wanted JarJar. So she bought 2 of those and a couple Dexter Jettsters because the kids liked him too.

Finally I met the girl around my own age. She was shopping for her boyfriend. She said she saw AOTC and asked me what I thought. So I told her I thought it was the best movie. She said "no way!" and proceeded to argue that TPM was the best movie. "She loved JarJar Binks and thought little Anakin was soooo cute." She said Clones made her cry and was 'disturbing.' She thinks TPM was the best mix of adventure, cute characters, and fun.

What's my point? They are out there. It takes all kinds and actually different things in different SW movies appeal to different people. I'm actually glad - today I saw 5 JarJar's fly off the shelf and that made room for the manager to stock another case of the Djas Puhr & Palpatine wave.

By the way, if you buy over $50 worth of Star Wars figures from Toys R Us, you get the wide-screen video of TPM free. This is the collectors' set that comes with the Art of Star Wars excerpt booklet. If nothing else, it makes a great gift - especially to those younger family members with casual adult fans for parents, or those who've never seen a SW movie (if they like your present, they might watch the other ones and for them, it can only get better!) Anyway, just thought I'd add that 2 cents in about TPM and who's out there backing it:

Moms and kids who for a little while will be clearing off our pegs so retailers will have the success with the line they need to order up the latest offerings. Thank you JarJar. Today you did something for me!

SithDroid
05-30-2002, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by SithDroid
I wonder what age all of these people voting for AOTC are? I bet a majority of them are younger and didn't see the OT in the theatre like we all did back in 77-83. Of course, I could be wrong, but it has been my observation that a good majority of the OT generation hold the OT much higher than the prequels.

That is fine Bigbarada, but if you look at my quote up above you will notice that it didn't say ALL and I also said "Of course, I could be wrong." So I don't se how in that post I made a generalization for EVERYONE and even though I said majority, I did say "Of course, I could be wrong," meaning that I knew my statement might not be purely 100% true. I thought that it was obviously clear when I wrote it at the time. That is all I was getting at by you calling me ignorant, because if you look at my post it isn't ignorant really by the way I worded things.

2-1B
05-30-2002, 12:41 PM
Sithdroid, I don't know that bigB was referring to that quote so much as he was the first one. It's all good, you've cleared up your opinion that you actually don't "think that the only reason people are voting for AOTC is because it is new and it is what is hyped up right now."
:cool:

Jonna
05-30-2002, 12:58 PM
Simmer down now...Sima!!! It's all good!

sir wilbur copeland
05-30-2002, 10:45 PM
Sorry I'm new here, but I was weened on Star Wars - can someone please tell me how Empire rates as #1? It was great, but by far the weakest of the bunch. The only one close to it was TPM.

"We shall double our efforts!"

Darth Grifter
05-31-2002, 01:18 AM
yippee! -- oh wait, was that a Jake-Lloydism...sorry. Tycho, just wanted to tell you that your post was the funniest thing I've read in a long time and it made me laugh a little bit.

I agree that there are people who like TPM, my sister (30) and my nephew (5) would be two of them. My sister saw ANH in the theaters and she still likes TPM. Now, it may be the influence of a persistent little five year old begging her to watch TPM five times a day that drives her to a liking of the film, nevertheless, she likes it. :crazed:

I don't know what to say...taste obviously doesn't run in the family...;)

JediTricks
05-31-2002, 02:28 AM
Originally posted by sir wilbur copeland
Sorry I'm new here, but I was weened on Star Wars - can someone please tell me how Empire rates as #1? It was great, but by far the weakest of the bunch. The only one close to it was TPM.

"We shall double our efforts!" Differing tastes. I, for one, rank the films in terms of favorites like so:
1) ANH
2) ESB
3) ROTJ
4) AOTC
5) TPM

clearly others feel that ESB is their favorite. You want reasons? ESB has:
- Tightest story
- Largest scale
- Great direction
- Incredible special effects
- A story that is well-layered and wide in scope
- Our biggest step into the Force
- The most incredibly powerful lightsaber duel in the saga

and so much more. When I was 9, I thought ROTJ was the greatest and it was my favorite, but by 12, I thought ESB was the best. As an adult, I feel ESB is still the best, but ANH is my favorite.

Tycho
05-31-2002, 04:31 AM
I am going to first tell you the newest news, then agree with JediTricks a little, but ask for some clarifications...

Attack of the Clones has won this poll!

It is ranked by at least our readers who voted as the No. 2 Star Wars movie out of all of them released at this point.

However, "Clones" won with 432 people voting while the initial interest in the best-of-the-bunch poll sparked 1739 people to vote.

I think it's appropriate to look at the victory in the context of reality. However, I voted for Clones as my favorite of this pack so I was happy about it.

Just the same, people are losing interest in ranking the others. But I said I'd offer it, so now, the new news is that it's up in the main poll section and you can go vote between TPM, ANH, and ROTJ as they duke it out for the 3rd spot.

Now the majority of people who voted for Clones in this poll can decide on their next favorite of the group.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Back to what JT was saying, I personally regard Empire very highly, but think I would've given the top spot to "Clones."

But while Empire is easily a favorite SW movie for me, JediTricks, what did you mean that it had the largest scale?

I agree that seeing a bit of the Jedi training process was awesome! And the Bespin Lightsaber duel is too cool. Each films' lightsaber duel had its own unique character, and Empire's with Vader hurling stuff with the Force and then the stalking through Cloud City's underworld was awesome!

Now I liked the flash of TPM's 3-way duel (best part of that movie) and I liked Clones duel concluding with Yoda, lightning, and hurling equipment between the Masters, but I think the emotion put into both TPM's (after Qui-Gon's death) and especially Empire's, makes the latter two actually more dramatic. In the end run, we have less invested interest in Yoda or Dooku as characters, than we do with Obi-Wan and especially Luke. That might be why it comes down to it, with Empire's duel.

So anyway, I am mostly agreeing with JediTricks, but do have a question about the large scale.

sir wilbur copeland
05-31-2002, 07:05 AM
Let me give you my take on ESB. While I will compare it and contrast it with others, I want to be quick to point out that I love it and can only make such comparison with other star wars movies.

Hoth - interresting, but the battle pales when compared to either attack on the death star or the arena battle in AOTC.

Degobah - this world didn't play very well. Meeting Yoda is great, training is great, the cave is cool, but overall not a tremendously gripping segment.

the Asteroids - this was a dramatic portion which is cool, esecially when you through in some cool maneuvers from han and boba fett.

Bespin - Some neat dramatic twists and all, but by far the least exciting of all the finales. Luke sucks witha light sabre, as opposed to Jedi where you have a much better lightsaber battle one where Luke is more compitent. The scope of Jedi is far greater because you pretty much have the entire rebellion engaged in the largest battle, being fought on two fronts, well three if you count the throne room. Likewise, the scope of ATOC is even greater still. That's why I had to chose it #1. I saw it 3x and it just engulfs you with the story. There is so much explained (the greatest failure of TPM was that nothing was explained). You can get lost in the effects, but after sorting out the facts. It has to be #1 because it's scope is the greatest.

This is just kinda scratching the surface, but what do you think?

"We're fine... we're all fine here....situation normal."

JediTricks
06-01-2002, 12:11 AM
Tycho, by "largest scale", I meant that the film draws us into the most characters in the most diverse situations without having story threads pull away from the main story. The battle at the beginning of the film is the most epic in "scale" because those are real actors fighting the Imperials and even though there are lots of rebels, the Imperial forces never seem to stop coming... and this isn't some cut/paste editing trick either.

ESB is large on scale also because it weaves itself through huge vistas and each one has a lot of diverse places and characters rather than just set decor and painted walls. We see inside: Star Destroyers Super Star Destroyers Vader's chamber; Hoth's frozen tundra the Wampa's cave Echo base's main hangar control room medical bay hallways and more; more of the inside of the Millennium Falcon the asteroid field the inside of the slug the attack on the Star Destroyers floating away with the garbage; Dagobah's watery swamp the mysterious land areas Yoda's house the training areas the cave; Bespin's skies Cloud City's landing platform its hallways and side rooms Leia & Han's "apartment" the prison cell the torture chamber the carbon freezing chamber the inner rooms of the central core the central core itself the underside of Cloud City; and finally, the medical frigate.

ESB covers a lot of cinematic ground, and at every turn are bit players and minor characters, interactive things and plot devices. ESB shows off a very rich universe on a huge scale, few scenes feel like they're in tiny, boxed-in sets or are forced to hide elements in vein attempts to trick the audience.


Tycho, as for why I think the lightsaber battle is "the most incredibly powerful", I think you hit it on the head. TPM's big saber battle at the end is a glorious ballet, but the characters don't draw you in enough until nearly the end when Qui-Gon takes one in the gut.

Tycho
06-01-2002, 12:46 AM
That cleared things up a bit, and I appreciated the time you took to write that long list of set locations for ESB. I am intrigued by your argument that the characters interacted with their environment more in this movie than in others (mostly because it was real and not digitally produced), but I could make the same lists of settings for each of the other movies which I found equally fulfilling in that particular aspect. It's what draws me to Star Wars and recreating those sets in my dioramas I make with my action figures.

But I think ANH gives ESB a run for its money in that category. ROTJ might be harder to match that list with. Things were getting very plain in certain environments in that movie or the tribal village hut wasn't that impressive? TPM certainly had a lot of great sets and visually appealing locations! It could top Empire in that way. Clones does equally as well with interiors of the Jedi Temple, Palpatine's office, then taking you back to the Lars' homestead and seeing a Tusken Raider camp - even if it borders on less exciting than an Ewok hut. The danger element was there in Clones, as well as one of the most powerful scenes enacted there.

It's tough to say, but ROTJ definitely ranks last on the list. Sad in a way, isn't it? No wonder the changes in the ending for the Special Edition...

JediTricks
06-01-2002, 02:06 AM
But do those other films really WEAVE that stuff together so each scene feels neccessary to the story? I think those that voted for ESB (and some who didn't) feel that ESB is the best at putting everything it had all together so as little as possible feels forced, out of place, unneccesary, or shoe-horned in. I think the criteria isn't just that "it looks great" or "something cool went on there", but also that it was part of the story, part of the universe it was taking place in, and (probably the most important reason) that it had reason to be there.

BTW, if you feel so inclinced, make a list of ROTJ and TPM, but ANH I think is exempt because it clearly isn't trying to cover as much ground - i.e., the characters are only separated for short periods of time, we follow the main focus of that part of the film throughout - first the droids, then Luke. Maybe it'll have as many, but I don't think ANH was even trying to be as large-scale in this way, I think that's what the focus thing was about.

Tycho
06-01-2002, 02:42 AM
Good points. Both ANH and TPM as intro movies GATHER the characters all together, introducing them to the audience and each other.

AOTC, ESB, and ROTJ pull them apart on their own storylines.

I'm too tired at the moment to put a list of scenes together for the other movies and relate what they are there for. But I invite anyone who wants to take the ball to do it for "Clones, Jedi or Phantom."

sir wilbur copeland
06-01-2002, 07:06 PM
Tricks- you make some very good points about Empire that I hadn't considered. But lets think about it on 2 different levels.

1. Story - this could be the plot, characters and their developement etc.

2. Setting - this would include obviously sets, special effects camera angles etc.

While the setting dramatically influences the story and vice versa, i think it would be wise to think of it this way. The setting is just the pan - the pie inside the pan is what we love and that is the story.

Clones takes us into new and exciting worlds like Kamino (sp) and Geonosis. We get to look at the real training of padawans, the archives, "downtown" Corresant, and new parts of Naboo. All of these were especially exciting - far more so than Hoth, Degobah and Bespin in my opinion. But what Clones brought us, that none else could was the return to Luke's home on Tatooine. That moment overwhelmed me. Even down to seeing the land speeder and the blue juice that Luke drank some 20 years later. Nostalgia!

But that was only the pan - now for the pie! Clones took us deep into the heart of Anakin. It showed us Obi-wan's incredible strength and his fateful weaknesses. It showed us the manuevering of Sidious in his creation of the army that he will use to seize power, his courting of Anakin, and the disarray of the Jedi counsil. It took us deeper into Amidala's thought process and her prestige/power and her weakness. It showed us Yoda as we all dreamed he would have been (perhaps overdone a little in my opinion). We saw the beginnings of the villain Boba Fett - awesome! It showed us Owen and Beru - didn't they look like them?! ----- Clones unfolded so much. It succeeded where I felt Menace failed - it filled in so many gaps. I know that Menace was made to establish context, and it succeeded at that, but it didn't answer my questions like Clones did.

Perhaps it's unfair to compare Clone to Empire in this respect because Clones delivered in a way that empire could not because the originals are what make the prequels so imporrtant to us. I don't know - but I do feel that one way or another, and perhaps in all ways Clones delivered like no other before it. It's hard to go back to the beginning and remember how you felt then, but after watching Clones 3x I think it's the most impacting.

"C'mon goldenrod or you're going to be a permanent resident!"

plasticfetish
06-02-2002, 03:10 AM
So ... I got out to the local megamultiplex this afternoon to look at Episode 2 again. I really enjoyed this movie just as much the second time. Perhaps in some ways, after really squinting at the most critiqued elements, I may like it more. I do know this now ... I can't compare the OT to these new movies at all. It's apples and oranges for me.

It really clicked this time, the pace, the dialogue, the theme in general ... maybe similar to the OT (perhaps out of acknowledged respect) but not the same.

The OT is about a hero's journey (Joseph Campbell on PBS tonight reminded me of all this, maybe I should send those people some money) from innocence to adulthood. He embarks on a journey, discovers his calling, battles the forces of evil and ultimately survives (somewhat) and comes full circle to help fulfill his and his father's destiny.
The movie is most certainly an ensemble ... his journey is not a lonely one, he has a crew and a spiritual guide and all of the good stuff a hero needs to get where he's got to go.

This new trilogy has a similar story line ... one that we already know the ending to. It's also about a hero's journey from youth to adulthood. It's about a rise to power, and how that power is corrupted and how the young man will eventually have to sacrifice himself as a result, to fulfill his destiny. I don't see these movies as being the same kind of ensemble ... I think this bothers some people ... but, I think this trilogy is meant to be more about Anakin's "lonely" journey. He's really cursed by this prophecy if you think about it.

So ... long winded build up leads to this conclusion ... the first trilogy is a heroic tragedy and the second trilogy is a heroic victory. I'm really looking forward to episode 3 and I really hope it ties this trilogy up nicely. I also hope it works as a perfect partner to that other great trilogy that we already know and love.

Tycho
06-02-2002, 03:22 AM
That was very insightful Plastic!

Wow. Good job. I don't think I could have expressed it more eloquently. :)

JediTricks
06-02-2002, 05:39 PM
SWC, those are some interesting points, but again, it's all going to come down to personal taste. To take your metaphor further, I personally think the pie that is AOTC has too many cloves and dashes of thyme trying to cover up a filling that just tastes like a 29-cent can of beans. A lot of folks don't agree with me, and that's fine, but I think for ESB, the pie tastes a lot better to them than any other.

sir wilbur copeland
06-02-2002, 06:17 PM
Cool Trickster! You certainly have helped me appreciate ESB more. I've always thought of it as less than the other 2 OT's. I will watch it again soon, and with more discernment perhaps.

Thanks for the good points.

JediTricks
06-02-2002, 10:17 PM
Sure thing, I'm just glad I could convey why so many fans like ESB the most. Oh, and by that same token of yours, I still haven't made up my mind about Ep 2 after my 2 viewings, I plan on seeing it more during the summer. :)

sir wilbur copeland
06-02-2002, 11:35 PM
I think I will take my 2 and 3yr olds to see it wed. - my day off. I was 3 when I saw ANH. I fell aslep, but I was there.....I want my kids to be able to say that in 30 years. My three yr old saw TPM when he was about 9mo. old, and I've already taken my 3mo. old baby to ATOC.

Then again.... maybe it's just an excuse to see it one more time.