PDA

View Full Version : Wrong way Hasbro has taken!!!



maulreborn
05-25-2002, 01:55 PM
I have received my last order of EPISODE II figures and I am very, very angry with the bad quality Hasbro has made the latest toys from the saga. They are including stupid "slashing" action on the figures giving them an awful look. Just see the wheel on Anakin Hanger Duel and the "button" on Vader Bespin. Since the mayority of people buying Star Wars are collectors, we have no stupid features for kids. STOP DOING THIS HASBROOOOOO!!!!! AND PLEAAASE DONT PACK MORE "BLUE BOLTS" WITH THE FIGURES!!

maulreborn
05-25-2002, 02:07 PM
I have to carry on with the bad quality of the latest ATOC Toys: Now size relations.

- Just see the diference between Dooku- Obi Wan figure sizes or Anakin-Obi Wan sizes, they seem to belong to different collections. WHAT'S THE MATTER WITH YOU HASBRO????

- And now a Question: How do you sit your Zam Wessell figure on her speeder? Perhaps Hasbro has the answer!!


I ASK FOR SIRSTEVE TO OPEN A PETITION FOR HASBRO TO BE MORE SERIOUS WITH THE COLLECTORS AND MAKING TOYS WITH BETTER QUALITY!!!

QLD
05-25-2002, 02:12 PM
Well some of the size comparisons are a little off because some of the characters are squatting or in some other weird pose. However, I think you'll find many posts that agree with you in the "Dear Hasbro" section of Sir Steves guide. Hasbro actually watches the opinions of others there, even though legally they cannot speak with us. That is the best place you can be heard. But for the most part, I agree with you.

Dooku Fett
05-25-2002, 02:12 PM
Wow never noticed that one. That's pretty bad...
It could be how the figures are posed too...

Beast
05-25-2002, 02:21 PM
Also some of the scale differences is because Christopher Lee himself in real life is 6' 5" tall. And Hayden is pretty tall also. Ewan McGregor is only 5'10" tall. Plus the figures of Dooku and Anakin are in a pretty basic poses, while the Obi-Wan you are comparing it to has a wide stance. Not to also mention, the Obi-Wan figure is a tad smaller in scale, so he will hang properly from the Assassin droid. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Beast
05-25-2002, 02:29 PM
The wheel isn't that big of a deal, and there is another Anakin coming out in that outfit anyway. As for the Vader, the button could be shorter like Luke: Bespin's but that's easily remedied, just cut some of it off. And there may be alot of collector's buying Star Wars figures, but kids buy them also...and if you show figures like these to most kids they would eat them up. They are fun to play with. As for the complaining about the blue bolts, well they are removable...you don't like em, throw em away or toss them away into a box. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

JON9000
05-25-2002, 02:32 PM
The target audience for the initial waves after the films release is kids. I have been out looking at figs and while I see the occasional adult collector, I mainly see younglings begging their mothers for the main characters! Some things never change! While collectors like us may be all for scale and accuracy, Hasbro needs these to look exciting and fun as kids have a lot to choose from these days.

And anyway- this line contains some cool figures with features I like! The Jangos, blaster effects, noises, and some of the pack-ins are really cool. They sure beat commtech chips!

JediIan
05-25-2002, 02:38 PM
I love your attitude Jar Jar, you rule!

Laserbrain
05-25-2002, 02:42 PM
Is that the basic Count Dooku? Hey, that's pretty cool, how tall he is like Christopher Lee. I wasn't planning on getting one but I'll give it a second look when it hits my AO.

And the droid-hanging Obi-Wan is out of scale? Feh....the straight arm was bad enough...

Bring back POTJ!

Laserbrain
05-25-2002, 02:56 PM
I'm not sure kids will like the new Vader all that much. When I was a kid never played with the figure with action feature cuz they never worked right. The accessories would fling out of the hand, lose arms would get in the way of neutral poses, ect. I always drifted toward the more articulated, neutral posed figures.

Even now I'm contemplating adding GIJoe parts to my customs...

I agree that as a whole, the first Saga wave is pretty lame for the most part. Only a few like the Fetts and the non-action Jedi are worth the trouble IMHO.

Dar' Argol
05-25-2002, 06:00 PM
#1. maulreborn, there is no reason to start another thread titled the same and complaining about the same basic thing. So I have merged them. That said . . . . .

#2. In reguards to the size issue. I like the size differances. It makes it more realistic. Dooku is much taller then Obi, the same for Ani. And as JarJar explained, Obi's stanse is real wide. Every one of us is a different height, so then why can't the figs be the same?? That was one of the problems I had with the vintage line. That my Luke was the same height as my Chewie, it just didn't look right!

maulreborn
05-25-2002, 06:26 PM
One thing is one character is taller than other and another the wrong size between figures like Obi Wan, Giant-Dooku, Luminara, Anakin & even more, I only ask for Hasbro to be more careful about this. If you are not be able to see this on the pic I have posted , perhaps you should see the movie again, taking with you the figures and comparing them with the action on the screen.


THANKS!!!

Beast
05-25-2002, 06:32 PM
maulreborn, read the posts. Obi-Wan seems short, because he is compared to Dooku and Anakin. He's also in a wide legged stance, while Anakin and Dooku arn't. If you squeeze Obi's legs together and put him back to back with Ani or Dooku, he appears the correct height. Luminara seems short, only due to the fact of how she's standing. Look under her gown, she's in the same stance as the arena when she activates her lightsaber, with one leg way forward.

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

LTBasker
05-25-2002, 06:52 PM
When it comes to heights only figure I really have a problem with is Padme considering that USA intreview thing said Portman was just over 5 feet but her figure is taller than the Obi-Wan even though her knees are even bent more than his. The only one to be complaining about on heights is basically Padme.

maulreborn
05-25-2002, 06:53 PM
I see its very difficult to bring some sense here. How about a comparation between Deluxe Dooku & Basic Dooku? What is the excuse now? Both are the same character.

Beast
05-25-2002, 07:02 PM
Deluxe Dooku is in a crouched stance, so he'll flip correctly. If he wasn't posed like that, he would be the same heigth. As I said above, Christopher Lee is 6'5" tall. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

maulreborn
05-25-2002, 07:09 PM
I dont believe in so. The Deluxe arms are shorter & the torso is smaller than the basic. ....¡ Unless,...Count Dooku's dark power allow him to change his size when he is in a crouched stance!. ¡¡INCREDIBLE!!

LTBasker
05-25-2002, 07:14 PM
Well the Deluxe Dooku is just a deluxe figure, and they're usually not very accurate when there are basic counterparts, look at Deluxe Jango. Not too mention had they made Dooku to accurate scale, it might've gotten in the way with the flipping action.

maulreborn
05-25-2002, 07:15 PM
By the way: Five minutes ago, "Fabulous" cut arm of my Anakin Duel figure, has fallen to the floor and the green lighsaber on the hand has been broken. Thanks again to Hasbro for their cool ideas like the magnetics joints, thanks again!!!

Beast
05-25-2002, 07:17 PM
Yeah, the deluxe figures arn't really accurate is another thing. After all, I don't recall Jango having a gigantic backpack on his back, and a massive hole in his back. LTBasker could be correct with making the figure smalller and more balanced to be sure he can flip correctly. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

DarthMaulSithLord
05-25-2002, 07:46 PM
Originally posted by maulreborn
I have received my last order of EPISODE II figures and I am very, very angry with the bad quality Hasbro has made the latest toys from the saga. They are including stupid "slashing" action on the figures giving them an awful look. Just see the wheel on Anakin Hanger Duel and the "button" on Vader Bespin. Since the mayority of people buying Star Wars are collectors, we have no stupid features for kids. STOP DOING THIS HASBROOOOOO!!!!! AND PLEAAASE DONT PACK MORE "BLUE BOLTS" WITH THE FIGURES!!

Just wondering, are you a carded collector or do you open your figs?

:rolleyes:

bigbarada
05-25-2002, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by maulreborn
I see its very difficult to bring some sense here.

Y'know if you are going to be abusive, you can just go start posting in the SW.com forums. We don't need disfunctional malcontents here to bring us down to your level.

Basically we've been through all of this before, and we've had all these discussions before. So, what you are saying is nothing new to us at all, we've just come to accept it and moved on with our lives. I suggest you do the same.

fourtwo
05-25-2002, 09:23 PM
stupid hasbro for making toys for kids, why would a kids toys company do such a thing! maybe they should start making things how the older guys who whine more than children do want them to be made.

if you don't like the features then don't buy them. i think its cool hasbro added stuff like that for the kids. most of em are cheesy but it still gives kids something to do other than look at a toy that doesn't do anything.

tagmac
05-25-2002, 09:27 PM
Considering how out of scale the figs were from '95 to '99, I don't think the current crop is all that bad. (Aside from the muscular figures, remember the giant Tantive IV trooper?) Sure, the scale isn't as perfect as the Hoth Leia/ Hanger Chewbacca wave (perfect scale there), but it could certainly be much worse.

maulreborn
05-25-2002, 09:30 PM
For me, this discussion is closed. I see you dont understand me and also I see a lack of tolerance about my opinions.

"PLEASE, FORGIVE ME, OH GREAT GOD HASBRO!"

THANKS TO EVERYBODY FOR BRING THE LIGHT TO MY LIFE!!!

Beast
05-25-2002, 09:41 PM
We understand you, but the arguments not valid. Are we supposed to support your argument, even though the figures themselves don't support yours? We tolerate you, it's just you don't even seem to read the posts, even though they are pointing out somthing you posted is wrong. And then you blast us back, for not supporting you. Pretty silly attitude, if you ask me. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

bigbarada
05-26-2002, 12:17 AM
You do realize that there are two sides to every discussion. There is also this thing called "listening," not just shouting out your uninformed opinions and getting mad when people don't agree. Anyways, see ya!

derek
05-26-2002, 01:33 AM
jar jar,

do you really think ewan is 5'10"? i was thinking he's shorter than that. i have heard natalie is about 5'3". look at the back of the episode 2 soundtrack with hayden and natalie. hayden dosen't seem much taller than her.

i would bet hayden is barley 5'10" himself, which would put ewan around 5'8" at the tallest.

i do agree that lee is pretty tall though. 6'5" sounds right. and neeson is about 6'4" and he towered over ewan.:)

remember, agents and football coaches always say their clients/players are taller than they really are/:)

Beast
05-26-2002, 01:39 AM
I know for sure that Lee is 6'5" tall. His Internet Movie Database file says so. I just checked, and Ewan's is updated with his heigth. He's listed as 5'10 1/2". Which means he's only 5'10", and likely demanded the extra 1/2". :D They also have updated Hayden's, he's 6'1". And Natalie is listed at 5' 3", so your correct.

I knew that Hayden was over 6' himself, though it's usually hard to actually find info like that on the web. Regardless, if you bend the bent legs of Kenobi together and place him back to back with Anakin, there isn't that big of a difference. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Wolfwood319
05-26-2002, 01:44 AM
There always seems to be this one sect of fans/collectors out there who just ***** and complain about everything. They're never happy with what they have, yet they still "care" enough to come to boards like these and complain about stuff.

Its sad to think that some people have nothing better to do than whine about toys.:rolleyes:

derek
05-26-2002, 02:24 AM
jar jar,

you are correct that IMDB lists hayden as being 6"1", but i just don't buy it. like i said, check out the back of the episode 2 soundtrack. hayden just dosen't look 10 inch taller than natalie. i still think he's about 5'10".:)

here is another photo thats a pretty good reference point:

derek
05-26-2002, 02:32 AM
also, to kind of prove a point, IMDB has harrison ford listed as being 6'1" also. but i have good info that ford is only 5'10".

a member of the replica prop forums is in the process of putting together a lifesize indiana jones manequin. he has been in contact with the actual costume people who have all of ford's measurements and they guarantee he is 5'10".

http://rpf.prop-planet.com/viewtopic.php?topic=10417&forum=1

Beast
05-26-2002, 02:33 AM
According to IMDB, Anthony Daniels is 5'9". And Anakin is obviously still taller then AD in that scene. I think 6'1" is correct, because I know that Lucas was looking for actors over 6' tall, to atleast make Vader's 6'7" plausible after his electronics. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

derek
05-26-2002, 02:40 AM
my point is i don't buy all of the height listings at IMDB.:)

as with guys like ford or hayden, 6'1" just sounds better than 5 foot something, and i think their agents or publicity people would stretch these numbers a bit.:)

for guys like lee or neeson, who are obviously tall, no one needs to lie for them.:)

and look at the photo i posted above. i bet daniels is barley 5'6", if that.:) also, here's a shot of lucas and daniels. word is lucas is 5'6", about as tall as daniels.:)

bigbarada
05-26-2002, 05:18 AM
Isn't Mark Hamill like 5'8"?

derek
05-26-2002, 12:12 PM
big barada,

i doubt hamil is that height. here is a photo of a fan who met lucas. the fan says he is 5'7"1/2, and he is taller than lucas. in the photo i posted above, lucas, daniels and hamil all appear about the same height.:)

JON9000
05-26-2002, 02:20 PM
In the scene where Anakin and Obi-Wan run into the hanger, Hayden appears to be considerably taller than Ewan. As for the picture above- it seems to be shot from a relatively low angle, de-emphasizing the height differential between Hayden and Natalie. As for Harrison Ford, He is a fairly tall guy. I went to the wax museum in NYC. I am six feet tall and his wax was a little taller than me. I trust the waxes- they are meticulously made. The only other SW person I saw one of was Sam Jackson, and he is at least 6'3. If you're ever in NYC, it is an interesting way to spend an hour.

There are various tricks one can use to either make someone appear taller or shorter in film. It would be pretty difficult to gauge someone's height that way. I really believe Hayden is pretty tall and Natalie is not.

Hamill has to be short- at least a little short to be a stormtrooper!

derek
05-26-2002, 02:26 PM
here is lucas and ford. i stand by my claim that IMDB has incorrect height listings for some actors,like ford and hayden and ewan, and that ford is under 6 foot.:)

derek
05-26-2002, 02:29 PM
and here is ford with ben afflect, who is supposed to be 6'2".

DarthMaulSithLord
05-26-2002, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by maulreborn
For me, this discussion is closed. I see you dont understand me and also I see a lack of tolerance about my opinions.

"PLEASE, FORGIVE ME, OH GREAT GOD HASBRO!"

THANKS TO EVERYBODY FOR BRING THE LIGHT TO MY LIFE!!!

Take it easy. We're just trying to see what you are talking about. We can't always agree you know?

Anyway, are you an opener?

:)

JON9000
05-26-2002, 02:34 PM
I don't know how short Lucas is- perhaps I could stand a Jorg Sacul figure next to my Han Commtech (my fave version) and compare! JK! The photo seems to show Lucas standing straight up and Ford leaning in a little. Oh well. I do agree that IMDB is probably inaccurate tho.

JON9000
05-26-2002, 02:35 PM
yeah Affleck definitely has a couple of inches on Ford

derek
05-26-2002, 02:41 PM
lucas is about 5'6".

check out this photo of nicole kidman, who IMDB lists as being 5'10", with ewan, who IMDB also lists as being 5'10".

i know nicole has high heel shoes on, but there is no way ewan is 5'10. i say no more than 5'8".:)

JediTricks
05-26-2002, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by Dar' Argol
#2. In reguards to the size issue. I like the size differances. It makes it more realistic. Dooku is much taller then Obi, the same for Ani. And as JarJar explained, Obi's stanse is real wide. Every one of us is a different height, so then why can't the figs be the same?? That was one of the problems I had with the vintage line. That my Luke was the same height as my Chewie, it just didn't look right! Dat don't explain Anakin OPD vs Anakin HD now does it? ;) Same character, but they're CLEARLY not in the same scale - Ani OPD doesn't even have the same sized head as Ani HD (at first, I thought Ani HD just had a huge mellon, but this entire figure - head and body - is significantly larger in scale).

bigbarada
05-26-2002, 10:56 PM
Anakin OPD and Obi-Wan Coruscant are noticeably smaller but small mistakes like this you have to expect when Hasbro is churning out so many new figures in such a short period of time. It's not really a big deal to me because we already have two new Anakins (HD & DX) and another on the way. Plus we have another Obi-Wan on the way so everything's cool.

stillakid
05-26-2002, 11:03 PM
Originally posted by JarJarBinks
Luminara seems short, only due to the fact of how she's standing. Look under her gown, she's in the same stance as the arena when she activates her lightsaber, with one leg way forward.

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Is that really why you were looking under her gown?:sur:

therock0603
05-27-2002, 01:09 AM
LOL, I love your pic of Zam in her speeder, maulreborn.

lurk_shady
05-27-2002, 01:26 AM
I think you must appeal to the new generation of kids who will ultimately become Star Wars Fans...look at the high tech gadgets they have to pick from today...Star Wars is not a line that appeals in that respect...so the occasional accessory or action that a figure possesses can't hurt. And besides, you'll buy them anyway, so shut up :)

A'Sharad Hett
05-27-2002, 02:05 AM
I have my Luminara standing next to my EP1 Ki-Adi-Mundi, JESUS, I mean I know shes in a fighting leaning stance and everything, but still, WOW. And Shaak Ti's hands bug me, have you noticed how big her lightsaber is in compairison?

bigbarada
05-27-2002, 05:56 AM
Originally posted by therock0603
LOL, I love your pic of Zam in her speeder, maulreborn.

She looks like she's taking a nap in there.:)

I do agree about releasing vehicles without figures that fit inside them, that does nothing but frustrates the collectors who like to play with their toys. Sure the versions that fit are coming later; but why weren't they released in conjunction with the ships? Stupid.

In any case, I'm still waiting for Han and Chewie figures that will actually fit in the cockpit of the 1995 re-released Millenium Falcon. But it's only been seven years Hasbro, no rush.:rolleyes:

maulreborn
05-27-2002, 06:01 AM
Thanks, BigBarada and JediTricks

I see , at least, there are some persons with common sense, who share my opinion about the scales and they arent blinded with "Perfect" SW Hasbro Universe.

And to those who are asking me: I ALSO OPEN ALL MY FIGURES TO PUT THEM IN CUSTOM DIORAMAS TO RE-CREATE MOVIE SCENES. SEND YOU AN EXAMPLE.



Thanks!!!

bigbarada
05-27-2002, 06:09 AM
I feel your pain, maulreborn; but I just think you need to work on your people skills.:)

Anyways, cool diorama! I'm especially impressed with the lighting.

stillakid
05-27-2002, 11:05 AM
Originally posted by bigbarada


She looks like she's taking a nap in there.:)

I do agree about releasing vehicles without figures that fit inside them, that does nothing but frustrates the collectors who like to play with their toys. Sure the versions that fit are coming later; but why weren't they released in conjunction with the ships? Stupid.

In any case, I'm still waiting for Han and Chewie figures that will actually fit in the cockpit of the 1995 re-released Millenium Falcon. But it's only been seven years Hasbro, no rush.:rolleyes:

For the price, I wish they'd release the appropriately sized figures with the vehicles. The Zam thing is just silly. The Falcon, well, the Falcon just should have been rebuilt from the ground up, but because it wasn't, it shouldn't have been too difficult to prioritize a figure or two the fit into the cockpit. What are you going to do?:rolleyes:

bigbarada
05-27-2002, 11:11 AM
Yeah, everyone (including me) used to complain about how bad the pack-in figures looked; but if this is the alternative, then I'll take crappy pack-ins anyday.

DarthMaulSithLord
05-27-2002, 11:18 AM
Neat diorama Maulreborn!

:)

maulreborn
05-27-2002, 11:46 AM
Where is the fetus from the Clone Chamber of the Taun We figure?. A so hard detail that has been cropped in order to avoid hurt to Kids "little minds" ? Very, very sad!!!

stillakid
05-27-2002, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by maulreborn
Where is the fetus from the Clone Chamber of the Taun We figure?. A so hard detail that has been cropped in order to avoid hurt to Kids "little minds" ? Very, very sad!!!

I thought of that the other day, but forgot to mention it here. An empty cloning chamber is kinda dumb. It almost looks like the Jetson's car.

bigbarada
05-27-2002, 11:51 AM
I think a fetus in a jar is too taboo for a toy line, even today. Imagine the parental outrage, or at least those two or three easily-offended parents who make it their life's work to ruin stuff for everybody else.:rolleyes:

stillakid
05-27-2002, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by bigbarada
Look, strange women lying in ponds, distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.


I thought that was what Katherine Harris was doing! :D

maulreborn
05-27-2002, 12:01 PM
Found an use for "stupid" blue bolts (this is from Jar-Jar figure) .See it

JON9000
05-27-2002, 12:08 PM
You will never see a fetus in a clone chamber, and we all know why. And I have to admit it is probably a reasonable fear on Hasbro's part. Remember the Austin Powers figure that asked if he made you horny? Besides- I'm not about to buy a dozen Taun We's so I can have a cloning room diorama. Maybe you can open the chamber and put a bean and some alcohol in it. From a distance it might look convincing enough. :) The Fett diorama is slick. As for figures fitting in the vehicles- I just use my vintage Bespin Han and Chewie for the falcon. A falcon that could fit a modern Chewie (especially mechanic) would be mammoth. I'd settle for a playset that is more like a cross section with some of the cool rooms exposed and a full cockpit with 4 chairs. Zam should fit in her speeder though- no excuse there!

maulreborn
05-27-2002, 12:10 PM
Originally posted by bigbarada
I think a fetus in a jar is too taboo for a toy line, even today. Imagine the parental outrage, or at least those two or three easily-offended parents who make it their life's work to ruin stuff for everybody else.:rolleyes:


Ok, so we have to sign a petition for an exclusive Clone fetus figure, of course, only available for adult collectors, and also a recomendation for the kids: they can put into the clone chamber a little Mickey Mouse figure that wont hurt the parents!!!

Chaddymac
05-27-2002, 12:38 PM
I don't know about the height difference and all that other stuff. I think they look fine...incredible even. I think Hasbro's attention to detail and creativity has really paid off this round. These figures are the best figures to date, IMHO and I'm excited to be collecting them. Metal lightsaer hilts? Awesome! With detchable blades? Incredible! And the figures generally come with awesome accessories. Not too long ago, all these accessories probably would have categorized most of these basics as deluxes. Consider the POTF Deluxe Snowtrooper and the Clone Trooper. AND these figures are cheaper than they've been for years. I really find it difficult to complain about something menial like size issues. I mean, most of these sculpts are really awesome too. And the fact that Hasbro is even varying the sizes between figures (like they started with Chewie and Leia roughly a year ago) is like a love letter to all of us fans. I would feel dirty to slap them in the face for that.

But as for Vader's extra long button, I noticed that my button has the exciting extra feature of holding his cape up so it appears to be billowing in the wind. If that was intentional, I continue to applaud Hasbro's efforts.

Perhaps they are occasionally off the mark (I'm as preturbed as anyone that none of the Zam's fit in the speeder), but give them the credit they deserve. Thank You, Hasbro. For the first time since before the Episode I figures I'm excited to see what you have in store for us next.

maulreborn
05-27-2002, 12:38 PM
This variation on Taun We explains all!!!

bigbarada
05-27-2002, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by stillakid


I thought that was what Katherine Harris was doing! :D

Teehee, classic and oh so wrong!:D:D

Another note on the "offensivness" of the pickle-jar fetus: do we really want to give Tipper Gore something to do?:p

bigbarada
05-27-2002, 12:45 PM
Good points, Chaddymac.

You should put that pic on Ebay, maulreborn, and see how many bids you get on it.:)

JON9000
05-27-2002, 12:47 PM
That's pretty funny. As for Vader- would that I could find one in order to have an opinion. Alas. But there is no doubt that the figures are offering a lot for the money now. I remember the price boost to $5.99. I believe that is why the freeze frames came out, to justify the extra cost. Then POTJ went to $6.99 and I had to lay off getting everything I wanted. Now we're talking $5.88 at Wal-Mart and with features like Jango KE has. Hold your Jango next to a '96 Boba and tell me we have not come a long way.

Chaddymac
05-27-2002, 01:01 PM
I heard about that Taun We, maulreborn. Isn't that the Star Tours Exclusive?

stillakid
05-27-2002, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by maulreborn
This variation on Taun We explains all!!!

Very nice Photoshop work there!

pthfnder89
05-27-2002, 09:38 PM
Originally posted by Chaddymac
AND these figures are cheaper than they've been for years. I really find it difficult to complain about something menial like size issues. I mean, most of these sculpts are really awesome too.

I totally agrre on that Chaddymac. I LOVE the fact that Hasbro has finally brought down the prices. Hopefully it will be a while before they go up again, but right now we are getting more for our money than we EVER have in the Star Wars toy line.:) It makes me feel all warm inside...:D

maulreborn
05-28-2002, 01:20 PM
A recopilation of mistakes and bad things from Saga Line:

- The R4-T7 figure (ha,ha,ha!!!, good pre-view)
- The Sidious Hologram & the green Saber on Dooku
- The non-fetus clone chamber on Taun-We
- No blood on Amidala scrathes
- False atttack mode of the Jedi Starfighter (- I couldnt see the "ATTACK MODE" of the Jedi Starfighter on the film, where is???)
- Uncaped deluxe Dooku. We never see him on the film without it. (Please dont argue balance reasons)

- The interchangeable right arm of Super Battle droid (horrible!!!)
- The pale skin of young Bobba
- "Misterious" blue bolts never seen on the fim ( except for Dooku, who comes whithout it)
- More "Misterious" energy on Ploo-Koon, Saese-Tinn & Deluxe Mace figure
- Zam speeder with "great sitting action"
- C3PO removable panels
- Outland pleasant Anakin (WITH LIGHSABER????)

ABOUT SCALES:

- A very small Obi-Wan Coruscant Chase
- A very,very,very small Luminara Unduli.

"MARVELLOUS" FEATURES:

- Stupid Amidala Arena "action" that breaks down a good quality figure.
- Awful wheel on Anakin hangar duel
- Awful button on Vader Bespin (Another Good Quality figure broken down)
- For now, I dont have Luke Bespin but I suposse he comes with another awful button.

I'll say prayers for Hasbro to abort abominable "slashing action" on the figures

- Note, Eeth Kooth figure is an ATOC figure not a POTJ. He is a real sneak preview. They put it on the wrong card


FRO THE REST I THINK THE WORK IS OK AND VERY SUPERIOR TO PREVIOUS HASBRO COLLECTIONS.

bigbarada
05-28-2002, 01:47 PM
List of mistakes from the vintage line:
-Yellow lightsaber blade on original and Bespin Luke
-NO lightsaber with Hoth Luke, just a rifle never seen in the film
-pink lightsaber blade on Vader
-lightsaber blades are too short
-no third leg on Artoo or Arfive
-Death Star Droid was black in the movie not silver
-Greedo figure has the wrong body, no orange vest
-Walrusman is totally off
-Hammerhead didn't have a blue jumpsuit
-Star Destroyer Commanders had black not grey suits
-Chewbacca's bowcaster is completely wrong
-Stormtroopers head can't turn
-Darth Vader's TIE is completely inaccurate when compared to the movie
-Darth Vader's cape went OVER his shoulders
-Same with Ben Kenobi, plus he had a hood
-Bossk's head doesn't match the color of his arms and legs
-Boba Fett's missile wasn't red
-The Imperial Officer has a black uniform when the card picture shows it as grey
-Han's head is too small
-Han's head is now too big
-Luke X-Wing doesn't have his gloves and his visor was clear orange not brown
-Dengar is too short
-Chewie is too short
-TIE Fighter pilots gloves and boots were black not grey
-Stormtroopers mouthpiece not painted
-Han Carbonite's arms are not in the right position
-Wicket is too short
-Luke Endor's helmet should be removable
-Speeder Bikes handlebars are in the wrong position
-Rebel Commando's uniform should be camoflauge
-Barada is sculpted like Barada but painted like Kithaba
-Squidhead's belt should be gold
-Bib Fortuna's cloak should be blue
-4-LOM and Zuckuss' names are switched
-Threepio's "wired" waist area is not painted
-Imperial Dignitary's face is blue
-PruneFace's cloak should be shorter and camoflauged
-Logray is too tall

List of mistakes from the POTF2 line:
-They are all too buff
-Leia looks like a man
-Luke's harpoon gun is useless
-Chewie is too short
-Figures won't fit in vehicles
-Tusken Raider's hand is molded shut
-R5-D4 is ruined by action features
-Blockade Runner trooper too buff
-Emperor's Royal Guard is a salt-shaker
-Emperor can't sit down
-Boushh's bounty Chewie has crossed eyes
-Removable Helmet Vader's lightsaber is too clear
-Han Hoth is completely inaccurate to the movie
-Spirit of Obi-Wan is a glorified PVC figure

I could go on all day, but I feel I've made my point. Errors and mistakes have existed since the beginning and are par for the course in toy collecting. If you are waiting for Hasbro to put out a perfect line of figures then you will be waiting a very loooooong time.

Beast
05-28-2002, 01:53 PM
Well said BigB, Especially since half the stuff maulreborn is still complaining about has been explained add nausium. Alot of the figures are being made while the movie is in production. Script and scene changes can cause there to be some minor inaccuraces in the toys. But, I think I will just leave the discussion now, no sense beating your head against a wall trying to explain somthing when someone isn't listening. :frus: :p

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

maulreborn
05-28-2002, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by JarJarBinks
Well said BigB, Especially since half the stuff maulreborn is still complaining about has been explained add nausium. Alot of the figures are being made while the movie is in production. Script and scene changes can cause there to be some minor inaccuraces in the toys. But, I think I will just leave the discussion now, no sense beating your head against a wall trying to explain somthing when someone isn't listening. :frus: :p

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

DONT GET ANGRY, JAR JAR. I KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT AOTC CUT SCENES. IT WAS ONLY A RECOPILATION LIST, NOT A COMPLAIN!!!

stillakid
05-28-2002, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by bigbarada
List of mistakes from the vintage line:
-Yellow lightsaber blade on original and Bespin Luke
-NO lightsaber with Hoth Luke, just a rifle never seen in the film
-pink lightsaber blade on Vader
-lightsaber blades are too short
-no third leg on Artoo or Arfive
-Death Star Droid was black in the movie not silver
-Greedo figure has the wrong body, no orange vest
-Walrusman is totally off
-Hammerhead didn't have a blue jumpsuit
-Star Destroyer Commanders had black not grey suits
-Chewbacca's bowcaster is completely wrong
-Stormtroopers head can't turn
-Darth Vader's TIE is completely inaccurate when compared to the movie
-Darth Vader's cape went OVER his shoulders
-Same with Ben Kenobi, plus he had a hood
-Bossk's head doesn't match the color of his arms and legs
-Boba Fett's missile wasn't red
-The Imperial Officer has a black uniform when the card picture shows it as grey
-Han's head is too small
-Han's head is now too big
-Luke X-Wing doesn't have his gloves and his visor was clear orange not brown
-Dengar is too short
-Chewie is too short
-TIE Fighter pilots gloves and boots were black not grey
-Stormtroopers mouthpiece not painted
-Han Carbonite's arms are not in the right position
-Wicket is too short
-Luke Endor's helmet should be removable
-Speeder Bikes handlebars are in the wrong position
-Rebel Commando's uniform should be camoflauge
-Barada is sculpted like Barada but painted like Kithaba
-Squidhead's belt should be gold
-Bib Fortuna's cloak should be blue
-4-LOM and Zuckuss' names are switched
-Threepio's "wired" waist area is not painted
-Imperial Dignitary's face is blue
-PruneFace's cloak should be shorter and camoflauged
-Logray is too tall

List of mistakes from the POTF2 line:
-They are all too buff
-Leia looks like a man
-Luke's harpoon gun is useless
-Chewie is too short
-Figures won't fit in vehicles
-Tusken Raider's hand is molded shut
-R5-D4 is ruined by action features
-Blockade Runner trooper too buff
-Emperor's Royal Guard is a salt-shaker
-Emperor can't sit down
-Boushh's bounty Chewie has crossed eyes
-Removable Helmet Vader's lightsaber is too clear
-Han Hoth is completely inaccurate to the movie
-Spirit of Obi-Wan is a glorified PVC figure

I could go on all day, but I feel I've made my point. Errors and mistakes have existed since the beginning and are par for the course in toy collecting. If you are waiting for Hasbro to put out a perfect line of figures then you will be waiting a very loooooong time.


You forgot to mention that they're all way too small! The characters in the movie are around 6 feet tall. My toys are way smaller than that.

For absolute accuracy I propose they Hasbro start making them ACTUAL SIZE! How cool would that be?! But then again, where the heck I'm I gonna store 'em? :rolleyes:

;)

Chaddymac
05-28-2002, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by stillakid



You forgot to mention that they're all way too small! The characters in the movie are around 6 feet tall. My toys are way smaller than that.

For absolute accuracy I propose they Hasbro start making them ACTUAL SIZE! How cool would that be?! But then again, where the heck I'm I gonna store 'em? :rolleyes:

;)

Actual size, huh? Well, I know I'd have to store Slave Leia under my bed. There'd just be NO easy way to explain her.

bigbarada
05-28-2002, 02:48 PM
I thought Don Post was making life size action figures, only $10,000 each too. What a deal!:rolleyes:

Maulreborn, I understand your frustration as I felt the same way when the line restarted again in 1995. All the figures were terribly inaccurate and most of them didn't fit in their own vehicles. Unfortunately that situation hasn't changed much, which is why I will always consider the vintage line to be the superior Star Wars toy line. It's level of playability far outweighed it's lack of detail and accuracy, plus Kenner had their focus in the right place back then. Star Wars works best as an accessory driven line, the figures are basically glorified vehicle accessories. Thus they should be made to fit into any vehicle regardless of what compromises need to be made to the sculpts. If Hasbro plans to not follow this direction, then they should just up the size of the figures to 8" each and never make any vehicles for them. What's more frustrating, having no vehicles or having vehicles and figures that are so poorly designed that they are completely incompatible with each other?

I would love to see an 8" accessoryless line plus a smaller accessory driven line with Lego sized action figures. This way kids would still be able to buy cheap (under $2 each figure), go-anywhere, highly-playable figures and adults could have a super-detailed, super-articulated collectors line that is cheaper than a 12" figure line.

Darth Evil
05-28-2002, 02:53 PM
Yes, having the vehicles and the figures incompatible with each other is incredibly stupid. I remember having to put Han and Chewie in weird positions to make them both fit in the Falcon's cockpit. Do Jango and Boba fit in the Saga Slave 1?

maulreborn
05-28-2002, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by Darth Evil
Yes, having the vehicles and the figures incompatible with each other is incredibly stupid. I remember having to put Han and Chewie in weird positions to make them both fit in the Falcon's cockpit. Do Jango and Boba fit in the Saga Slave 1?

Fortunatelly Jango and Boba fit (more or less) in the Saga Slave 1, but this fact seems to be an exception!!

DarthMaulSithLord
05-28-2002, 05:47 PM
Originally posted by stillakid



You forgot to mention that they're all way too small! The characters in the movie are around 6 feet tall. My toys are way smaller than that.

For absolute accuracy I propose they Hasbro start making them ACTUAL SIZE! How cool would that be?! But then again, where the heck I'm I gonna store 'em? :rolleyes:

;)

I'm all for that!!! Give me a full scale Padmé!!!

:crazed:

JON9000
05-28-2002, 08:17 PM
It seems to me that most modern figures fit their respective vehicles. A modern Chewie won't fit the Falcon, true, but I don't own either Anakin's or Zam's speeders so I can't comment there. But in general don't the vast majority fit fine?

Maybe figure pack-ins with vehicles are a good idea- they can be scaled down a bit if need be. But for carded figures, I prefer them in scale to each other- so if Cloud City Chewie never sees the inside of a cockpit, so be it. I want him a quarter inch taller than the others.

stillakid
05-28-2002, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by JON9000
It seems to me that most modern figures fit their respective vehicles. A modern Chewie won't fit the Falcon, true, but I don't own either Anakin's or Zam's speeders so I can't comment there. But in general don't the vast majority fit fine?

Maybe figure pack-ins with vehicles are a good idea- they can be scaled down a bit if need be. But for carded figures, I prefer them in scale to each other- so if Cloud City Chewie never sees the inside of a cockpit, so be it. I want him a quarter inch taller than the others.

I did just squeeze Porkins into the X-Wing for the first time. It was a little harder to get him out, but he can fly. :)

JediTricks
05-29-2002, 02:26 AM
"Oh, let's all be happy with what we have no matter how big the mistakes are" - I'm sorry, but figure scale matters to me, poseability matters to me, giant gappy torsos and arms to allow for cheap gimmicks which limit the figure to being a "cheap action statue" matters to me, figures not fitting into NEW vehicles like the Zam speeder matters to me. If these things don't matter to you, fine, but does there always a few sermons about how "everything's fine, don't rock the boat" whenever someone points out flaws?!? "Just focus on the positive" is denial in my book.

"Now let's forget all our troubles with a big bowl of strawberry ice cream." - Malibu Stacy

stillakid
05-29-2002, 10:05 AM
Originally posted by JediTricks
"Oh, let's all be happy with what we have no matter how big the mistakes are" - I'm sorry, but figure scale matters to me, poseability matters to me, giant gappy torsos and arms to allow for cheap gimmicks which limit the figure to being a "cheap action statue" matters to me, figures not fitting into NEW vehicles like the Zam speeder matters to me. If these things don't matter to you, fine, but does there always a few sermons about how "everything's fine, don't rock the boat" whenever someone points out flaws?!? "Just focus on the positive" is denial in my book.

"Now let's forget all our troubles with a big bowl of strawberry ice cream." - Malibu Stacy


It's all part of a growing pattern where SSG'ers aren't being encouraged to "discuss" differing opinions regarding toys, movies, etc. :cry:

Forhekset
05-29-2002, 11:06 AM
Originally posted by JediTricks
"Oh, let's all be happy with what we have no matter how big the mistakes are" - I'm sorry, but figure scale matters to me, poseability matters to me, giant gappy torsos and arms to allow for cheap gimmicks which limit the figure to being a "cheap action statue" matters to me, figures not fitting into NEW vehicles like the Zam speeder matters to me. If these things don't matter to you, fine, but does there always a few sermons about how "everything's fine, don't rock the boat" whenever someone points out flaws?!? "Just focus on the positive" is denial in my book.

"Now let's forget all our troubles with a big bowl of strawberry ice cream." - Malibu Stacy

Well, I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who feels this way. I can't count the number of times on this forum where I've seen someone raise a problem or concern they have with something, only to be shot down by certain people who think anything with a Hasbro or Star Wars logo on it is golden. :rolleyes:

It's real easy to say, "If you don't like it, don't buy it", and excessive complaining does come off as whining. But isn't it more productive to discuss the flaws and problems rather than shrug them off and pretend everything is OK™?

Chaddymac
05-29-2002, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by Forhekset


It's real easy to say, "If you don't like it, don't buy it", and excessive complaining does come off as whining. But isn't it more productive to discuss the flaws and problems rather than shrug them off and pretend everything is OK™?

I can go along with that. But it seems like not everyone agrees these are problems. What happens is a camp divides into people saying "They complain too much!" and people saying "They don't complain enough!" Those aren't fair statements. It's like we're holding each other to an unreasonable standard. It's just a difference of opinion. I personally think that Hasbro's doing a bang up job on this line. Not perfect, but commendable. There seems to be a number who disagree wih that. Fine, that's your right, but give me my right to like the action features if I want. Allow me the ability to compliment Hasbro without being told I'm just following the brand like sheep. Don't treat me like a simpleton for disagreeing with you and I'll show you the same respect, the respect we both deserve. This isn't directed at anyone in particular and something I think both camp should consider.

Let the discussion continue!! But leave the insults outside.

[EDIT: I hate spelling mistakes]

JON9000
05-29-2002, 12:09 PM
My point is simply that in the case of some figures I prefer accurate scaling in relation to each other rather than the ability to fit in vehicles. If anything, I don't mind if vehicle cockpits are scaled up a bit to fit figures. That's usually what Hasbro does anyway. I think the driver's compartment of Zam's speeder should have been made a bit bigger if she does not fit and you are absolutely right- it is unacceptable.

I also noted that most figures fit their vehicles (and this is true). It is unfair IMHO to say that Boba and Jango fitting into Slave I is the exception. Of course, I am speaking in terms of the entire modern line. I am in no way telling any of you that your points are not valid or incorrect or that you should "stop whining and be happy." I am just putting in my 2 cents.

There will always be room from improvement, but I also understand that any modern Chewbacca figure made to fit the Millenium Falcon's cockpit will be about the size of the vintage Chewie, and I like Chewie to be tall. I am sorry if you do not agree.

JON9000
05-29-2002, 12:11 PM
Right on Chaddy

pthfnder89
05-29-2002, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by JediTricks
"Oh, let's all be happy with what we have no matter how big the mistakes are" - I'm sorry, but figure scale matters to me, poseability matters to me, giant gappy torsos and arms to allow for cheap gimmicks which limit the figure to being a "cheap action statue" matters to me, figures not fitting into NEW vehicles like the Zam speeder matters to me.

I have no problem with pointing out ridiculous flaws. That fact that Anakins speeder doesn't fit ANY normal Hasbro figure ticks me off like you wouldn't believe. But Any figure I want to put in Zams speeder goes in just fine.:)

Since we are paying for Hasbros product I think we have every right to let them know what we want and don't want. But there is a fine line there between sticking up for what we want and yelling and moaning because a single BUTTON is out of place on R4...:rolleyes:

What I'm saying is that if I was a product designer or sculptor at Hasbro, and I came to these boards (or most of the others) the majority of what I would see is people screaming at me and my coworkers about what a horrible job we're doing and how we have raped the beloved childhood of every collector here. What I WOULDN'T see are many collectors commenting on well thought out, innovative and considerate features like a holder to fit Jangos jetpack into on Slave One, or lots of extra articulation on otherwise static figures like Orn Free Taa.

I'm not against taking Hasbro to task for things that they screw up, because they certainly do make some big mistakes. But face it, a LARGE number of collectors on this board won't be happy with anything less than perfectly-scaled, 3 3/4" figure with eight packin accessories, NINE points of articulation PER LIMB, an absolute photo likeness of the actor, paint applied by hand by skilled, precision artists at ILM, and scale vehicles the approximate sze of most single-family dwellings.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Forhekset
05-29-2002, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by Chaddymac


I can go along with that. But it seems like not everyone agrees these are problems. What happens is a camp divides into people saying "They complain too much!" and people saying "They don't complain enough!" Those aren't fair statements. It's like we're holding each other to an unreasonable standard. It's just a difference of opinion. I personally think that Hasbro's doing a bang up job on this line. Not perfect, but commendable. There seems to be a number who disagree wih that. Fine, that's your right, but give me my right to like the action features if I want. Allow me the ability to compliment Hasbro without being told I'm just following the brand like sheep. Don't treat me like a simpilton for disagreeing with you and I'll show you the same respect, the respect we both deserve. This isn't directed at anyone in particular and something I thingboth camp should consider.

Let the discussion continue!! But leave the insults outside.

Well, I guess what I should have said is, "But isn't it more productive to discuss the flaws and problems rather than shrug them off and pretend everything is OK™, and for those of you who are 100% happy with the line the way it is, allow those of us who have problems with it to discuss them without resorting to name-calling and trying to squelch all criticism?"

Also, I'm not referring to anyone's comments in this thread in particular when I say there are certain people who like to try to shoot down people with complaints (though I am referring to at least a couple of people in particular, who I won't name, based on what I've seen them do during the time I've been browsing these forums).

The problem as I see it, Chaddymac, is that I don't see a whole lot of people who dislike a certain figure going into a thread about how great some figure is and trashing peoples' opinions. What I see are people who think Hasbro can do no wrong going into threads regarding complaints or perceived flaws and trying to shut them up, RATHER than have an intelligent discussion. So I think the people with the complaints get slighted, more often than not.

Also, you seemed to have taken my previous post a little personally. Like I said, it wasn't aimed at anything you've said in this thread, nor was it aimed at you in general.

Chaddymac
05-29-2002, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by Forhekset


Also, you seemed to have taken my previous post a little personally. Like I said, it wasn't aimed at anything you've said in this thread, nor was it aimed at you in general.

Oh I know that, Forhekset. It wasn't anyone in particular I was referring to, just a tone I've been picking up from the threads. I could tell you weren't intentionally attacking anyone. I just felt that it was a good time to share my thought.

And I have my problems with some of the figures too. Outland Peasant Anakin was an interesting experiment, resurrecting the "oversized lightsaber molded into the arm so that the saber blade can ignite" idea, but I prefer the metal hilts with detachable saber blades myself. So, I've passed on this figure at every opportunity. I'll not be picking it up until TRU puts them out for $.97, and then only for that metal box thing that looks like diorama fodder. Maybe if they release a peasant Padme.

Forhekset
05-29-2002, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by Chaddymac


Oh I know that, Forhekset. It wasn't anyone in particular I was referring to, just a tone I've been picking up from the threads. I could tell you weren't intentionally attacking anyone. I just felt that it was a good time to share my thought.

And I have my problems with some of the figures too. Outland Peasant Anakin was an interesting experiment, resurrecting the "oversized lightsaber molded into the arm so that the saber blade can ignite" idea, but I prefer the metal hilts with detachable saber blades myself. So, I've passed on this figure at every opportunity. I'll not be picking it up until TRU puts them out for $.97, and then only for that metal box thing that looks like diorama fodder. Maybe if they release a peasant Padme.

That's what I'm waiting on too. When they go on sale, I'll be picking up a few OPD Anakins and a few C3POs so I can use their boxes for scene-building :D

Herby
05-29-2002, 02:43 PM
Wow! What a thread, I have to add my two cents in. While I agree that constructive criticism can lead to great conversions, there are quite a few posts that are just the same complaint over and over again. I would love to know how many posts I've read complaining that the Massiff or the C3PO toys were mistakes that Hasbro was stupid to make.

The toy quality comes and goes. I do agree with the fact that the first few waves are meant to excite collectors and children, so there are some comprimises that had to be made. Stuff like the empty clone chamber reflects that (although I believe that if Jango's head can come off, a small baby in a jar isn't THAT bad). Actually, after typing the line "small baby in a jar" maybe I can see why they avoided it :). Let's face it, without some accessory, Taun would be a pretty dull figure.

I never pay close attention to scale, but I haven't noticed anything so hideous that it stands out. I don't agree that the button on the back of Vader is a horrible thing, unless you are prone to displaying Vader with his butt facing out and both of the cape pieces off. If you do display him that way, I'd really like to know what the title of that diorama is.

bigbarada
05-29-2002, 02:59 PM
I see a distinct difference between complaining and whining. Complaining is when you bring up a valid point that can be corrected on Hasbro's level ("Please stop putting giant buttons/wheels on the figures' backs!" "Figures that actually fit in the vehicles please!"). Whining is just complaining for the sake of complaining, with no interest in whether the fault gets fixed or not. Whiners tend to be overly negative and come up with ridiculous assumptions or personal insults ("Lucas is raping our childhood!" "We've been betrayed by Lucas!" "Hasbro is a bunch of morons because my Padme has a splotch of paint on her foot that shouldn't be there, what crappy quality control!").

Keeping in mind that these are $6 action figures and they are not going to be perfect, there are still a few things that we have the right to expect: compatibility with vehicles (although expecting a Mechanic Chewie to fit in the old Falcon is too much - so I would ask for Hasbro to resculpt the Falcon at least 2x it's current size and sell if for $100 with loads of features), action features that don't compromise the sculpts, and a reasonable amount of accuracy considering that these figures are under 4" tall and things like moles and liver spots are not really necessary, and poses that don't limit the figure's playability or displayability.

If I were to give the Saga line a letter grade like we got in school, I would rate it a B+. Very good line but could use some improvement. For reference, I would give POTJ an A- , the initial waves of POTF2 a D and the Ep1 line a B. Vintage gets an A, since they utilized the current technology of the time to produce figures that were not only detailed, but completely compatible with any accessory (with only a few exceptions: Gamorrean, Amanaman, etc) and the range of figures, vehicles, playsets, accessories and beasts is unmatched today.

Just for the heck of it, here are my personal grades for other SW toy lines:
Action Fleet: A
Epic Force: D
Action Collection: C-
Lego: A
Playskool: A+

Just my $0.02 or maybe $0.03 :)

Forhekset
05-29-2002, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by Herby
Wow! What a thread, I have to add my two cents in. While I agree that constructive criticism can lead to great conversions, there are quite a few posts that are just the same complaint over and over again. I would love to know how many posts I've read complaining that the Massiff or the C3PO toys were mistakes that Hasbro was stupid to make.

The toy quality comes and goes. I do agree with the fact that the first few waves are meant to excite collectors and children, so there are some comprimises that had to be made. Stuff like the empty clone chamber reflects that (although I believe that if Jango's head can come off, a small baby in a jar isn't THAT bad). Actually, after typing the line "small baby in a jar" maybe I can see why they avoided it :). Let's face it, without some accessory, Taun would be a pretty dull figure.

I never pay close attention to scale, but I haven't noticed anything so hideous that it stands out. I don't agree that the button on the back of Vader is a horrible thing, unless you are prone to displaying Vader with his butt facing out and both of the cape pieces off. If you do display him that way, I'd really like to know what the title of that diorama is.

Although I wish I had a small baby figure that would fit in Taun We's cloning chamber, there's no way Hasbro EVER would have packed one in. I mean, with all the uproar in the first place over whether or not cloning is "moral" in real life, I can just see the hailstorm of criticism that would have come down on Hasbro had they packed in a plastic fetus with Taun We. It just would have been too risky on Hasbro's part.

Oh, and I know what you mean, Herby, on Vader's button. His front is facing so that the button is behind him, when do you ever see it except when looking the entire figure over? It isn't like he has a cloth cape and the button juts out making the cape look weird, or something. Same with the complaints about HD Anakin's wheel: are people making dioramas with Anakin facing backwards? That doesn't sound like it would look too good. :)

Chaddymac
05-29-2002, 05:49 PM
I would love to have a Millennium Falcon more to scale. I remember when the FX X-Wing came out and everone said that if this sells well they should do the same thing to the Millennium Falcon. Well, it didn't sell well (which I think has to do with the fact that R2 and Luke were dedicated figures...come on Saga X-Wing and show them how it's done!!!)

But I digress. If we DID get a Falcon that was twice as big as the one we have, how would kids be able to play with it? That would be huge! Cool...very cool...but huge! And probably far too heavy to carry. I just use my Chewy Dejarik champ in the Falcon and put Han in the cockpit alone.

By the by...does anyone know the scale of the Saga X-Wing? Is it the same size as the FX version?

Beast
05-29-2002, 05:56 PM
Originally posted by Chaddymac
By the by...does anyone know the scale of the Saga X-Wing? Is it the same size as the FX version?
It's the same ship, it's just beem gutted, retooled, and repainted. I can't wait for it though, especially since we finally get a Dagobah R2-D2 and Luke's supplies. :D

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Chaddymac
05-29-2002, 06:00 PM
Ah, beautiful.

JON9000
05-29-2002, 06:27 PM
I would be for a Millenium Falcon playset. One that is more like a cross section of the vehicle rather than a vehicle per se. A full size cockpit with 4 chairs- Djarek chewie is already sitting! the main area with the Djarek board and Engine area in ESB, a couple of smuggler's bays and the medical area would be slick too. Creating a whole vehicle with these features would pretty much mean building rather meticulously to 3 and 3/4 scale. Not very likely. I'm happy with the standard Falcon for flying around and setting up in dioramas but a playset would be cool for the interior scenes. I own the F/X X-wing and I think it's main problem was that the price was prohibitive for most people. I have to say that I really love mine, though. The light up engines are my favorite feature.

Chaddymac
05-29-2002, 06:33 PM
Originally posted by JON9000
I would be for a Millenium Falcon playset. One that is more like a cross section of the vehicle rather than a vehicle per se. A full size cockpit with 4 chairs- Djarek chewie is already sitting! the main area with the Djarek board and Engine area in ESB, a couple of smuggler's bays and the medical area would be slick too. Creating a whole vehicle with these features would pretty much mean building rather meticulously to 3 and 3/4 scale. Not very likely. I'm happy with the standard Falcon for flying around and setting up in dioramas but a playset would be cool for the interior scenes. I own the F/X X-wing and I think it's main problem was that the price was prohibitive for most people. I have to say that I really love mine, though. The light up engines are my favorite feature.

Won't the Saga X-Wing retail for the same price? Man, I really hope TRU can keep these in stock.

What's the word on the Saga Landspeeder? I'm trying to figure out why they want to make this and I haven't seen any pictures.

JON9000
05-29-2002, 06:50 PM
Geez I hope not. $50 bucks is a lot of cash. Especially when all they are doing is releasing the exact same vehicle sans electronics and a figure with a new paint job. I think they will probably be in stock. All I see at my local TRU is At-St with the ewok. I'll stick with my FX.

Beast
05-29-2002, 06:58 PM
The Saga X-Wing retails for 39.99. Can't wait! :D

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

maulreborn
05-29-2002, 08:44 PM
See how well Hasbro has captured the spirit of Mace Windu in the Geonosian rescue figure, I cant stop laughing when I read the text of the card back . Keep up the "good work" , Hasbro,ha,ha,ha, you are doing it very well!!!


What have you done to Hasbro, Samuel, to they put you with that face??

JON9000
05-29-2002, 10:40 PM
fortunately I have my EpI and preview Mace! Much better for general purposes!

JediTricks
05-30-2002, 05:07 AM
Originally posted by pthfnder89
I have no problem with pointing out ridiculous flaws. That fact that Anakins speeder doesn't fit ANY normal Hasbro figure ticks me off like you wouldn't believe. But Any figure I want to put in Zams speeder goes in just fine.
Sure, any figure can fit in Zam's speeder, you can also fill it with lime jello or whipped cream, they'll be about as functional in there IMO. This cockpit doesn't PROPERLY fit either of the Zam figures out there, and it's really nothing more than an action figure bed - that bugs me a LOT. It's not "one little button out of place", to me it's a HUGE deviation from the proper design or even a reasonable action figure vehicle cockpit.


Since we are paying for Hasbros product I think we have every right to let them know what we want and don't want. But there is a fine line there between sticking up for what we want and yelling and moaning because a single BUTTON is out of place on R4...:rolleyes:
- While I'm not accusing you of this, there are far too many people out there who see ANY complaint as moaning and yelling over a tiny single button on an R4. I'm just sick of being and seeing folks trashed for their opinions based on a ridiculous stereotype and an impossible standard of acceptability.


What I'm saying is that if I was a product designer or sculptor at Hasbro, and I came to these boards (or most of the others) the majority of what I would see is people screaming at me and my coworkers about what a horrible job we're doing and how we have raped the beloved childhood of every collector here. What I WOULDN'T see are many collectors commenting on well thought out, innovative and considerate features like a holder to fit Jangos jetpack into on Slave One, or lots of extra articulation on otherwise static figures like Orn Free Taa.

I'm not against taking Hasbro to task for things that they screw up, because they certainly do make some big mistakes. But face it, a LARGE number of collectors on this board won't be happy with anything less than perfectly-scaled, 3 3/4" figure with eight packin accessories, NINE points of articulation PER LIMB, an absolute photo likeness of the actor, paint applied by hand by skilled, precision artists at ILM, and scale vehicles the approximate sze of most single-family dwellings.
This sort of statement I think strengthens that negative stereotype that we're all whiners and we hate everything Hasbro does. I don't think a lot of these so-called "negative nellies" would even continue to bother posting here if they hated everything, and I have noticed a lot of folks giving both positive and negative opinions, yet those same folks only get stuck in that "negative" grouping because others focus only on those negative comments and it makes these "negative nellies" angry and frustrated.


The idea that the buttons on the back of Bespin Luke and Vader aren't that bad doesn't ring true for me, I'll take figure accuracy over gimmicks that affect figure poseability and look any day, and I don't see why I shouldn't be allowed to discuss that with people who agree AND disagree without being attacked for a less-than-positive viewpoint. Sometimes I think those who complain about the complainers are the ones with the REAL problem and the more I see of it, the more I want to yell and scream at the unfairness of it - why shouldn't my viewpoint be just as acceptable as yours? If it's not a valid viewpoint, it would die a quick death anyway, but if it bothers a lot of people, then maybe it's not such a minor nit after all!!!

---

maulreborn, that's one funny pic! Maybe they're saying that he's SO calm that he's yawning!!! :o :D

stillakid
05-30-2002, 11:45 AM
Originally posted by JediTricks

- While I'm not accusing you of this, there are far too many people out there who see ANY complaint as moaning and yelling over a tiny single button on an R4. I'm just sick of being and seeing folks trashed for their opinions based on a ridiculous stereotype and an impossible standard of acceptability.

This sort of statement I think strengthens that negative stereotype that we're all whiners and we hate everything Hasbro does. I don't think a lot of these so-called "negative nellies" would even continue to bother posting here if they hated everything, and I have noticed a lot of folks giving both positive and negative opinions, yet those same folks only get stuck in that "negative" grouping because others focus only on those negative comments and it makes these "negative nellies" angry and frustrated.

This attitude extends far beyond the toys area. In the following post:

http://www.sirstevesguide.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=92717#post92717

I was challenged by the following question:

Nobody said that criticism is out of bounds for "true fans". What we're saying is that a lot of people lately seem to only have negative things to say about Star Wars. It's difficult for some of us to understand how someone can or would consider themselves a fan when all they have is criticism for Star Wars. So let's hear it! What do you like about Star Wars?

I replied with my favorite things about Star Wars. What followed? Nothing but more complaining by others that threw down the challenge. I thought that my reply might open up a whole new chapter of posts proclaiming all that is good in Star Wars, but not one person followed up with a positive comment regarding the saga.

As a necessary note to this, I'm not just referring to the principle players in the thread (you'll see why), but the thread was open to everyone here and nobody joined in to express any positive feedback regarding what makes Star Wars great. Apparently it easier to insult those of of who find fault with certain aspects of the saga than it is to post threads which extol the virtues of the saga.

JON9000
05-30-2002, 12:13 PM
IMHO- It's fine to vent your gripes, but at least try to follow up with how you would like to see the figures done in the alternative. I find those posts to be the most interesting to read.

Lame post- HASBRO SUCKS!!!

Good post- I do not like feature X- instead Hasbro should try Y

pthfnder89
05-30-2002, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by JediTricks
I don't see why I shouldn't be allowed to discuss that with people who agree AND disagree without being attacked for a less-than-positive viewpoint. Sometimes I think those who complain about the complainers are the ones with the REAL problem and the more I see of it, the more I want to yell and scream at the unfairness of it - why shouldn't my viewpoint be just as acceptable as yours?

JediTricks - I really don't mean to step on anyones views or opinions here. I think that my last post was simply born out of the same frustration that you feel; ie - having people attack me for my opinions.

When I stick up for Hasbro doing something that I like, some posters think I'm just being their lapdog and I'll buy anything they make as long as they slap on a Star Wars logo. I feel the same sort of disrespect you're getting.

Looking back I didn't express that view nearly as eloquently as Chaddymac has. But the point is that intolerence here is a problem for everyone.

maulreborn
05-30-2002, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by JON9000
IMHO- It's fine to vent your gripes, but at least try to follow up with how you would like to see the figures done in the alternative. I find those posts to be the most interesting to read.

Lame post- HASBRO SUCKS!!!

Good post- I do not like feature X- instead Hasbro should try Y

I do not like "Slashing action" with awful buttons instead Hasbro should try to release regular figures without it and let those "exciting features" to deluxe figures as always they have done.

I do not like vehicles that dont allow figures to fit into instead Hasbro should try to release those vehicles with sitting figures packed in

Do you like those posts?

JediTricks
05-31-2002, 02:14 AM
Originally posted by pthfnder89
JediTricks - I really don't mean to step on anyones views or opinions here. I think that my last post was simply born out of the same frustration that you feel; ie - having people attack me for my opinions.

When I stick up for Hasbro doing something that I like, some posters think I'm just being their lapdog and I'll buy anything they make as long as they slap on a Star Wars logo. I feel the same sort of disrespect you're getting.

Looking back I didn't express that view nearly as eloquently as Chaddymac has. But the point is that intolerence here is a problem for everyone. I understand what you're saying pthfnder, and agree, we all have to work hard to end the stereotyping and attack/counterattack style of posting.

Let me now iterate, I am not accusing you pthfnder of doing the following, but I've noticed that when I point out something that bugs me about a figure, there are often a few folks who seem to feel that I'm automatically attacking both Star Wars in general AND them in specific, and they respond with nasty attacks on both myself and "all complainers". It's part of what's led to a circle of unhappiness on both sides of the "negative nellie/positive pete" coin since there are actually very few forumites here who are staunchly in either corner.

For me, it can be frustrating to seeing some forum posters make a blanket statement about how "everything is so great, why don't you agree with us here on the winning team?!?" to counter claims I find at least somewhat reasonable, but I try very hard not to call anybody a "Hasbro Cheerleader" or anything nasty like that. I may have a while back, but I've been trying hard not to and I think we should all take our statements and responses on a case-by-case basis rather than a snap-judgement based on a stereotype we think we're seeing.

JON9000
05-31-2002, 10:53 AM
Do you like those posts?

Yes I do as a matter of fact. I like reading about people's ideas and thinking about how they would work out if translated to the actual toys. But to each his own.

Chaddymac
05-31-2002, 01:07 PM
I have a thought, so tell me if you disagree. But what strikes me as an issue in threads such as this is a fear that Hasbro is watching. It's a scary thought realizing that we fans, consumers as one member noted, actually have the power to influence this line, now that mass communication is the norm. And we know that Hasbro visits these threads (and I don't think they remain loyal to the "Ask Hasbro" Forum--and you probably don't either). Could it be that there is a fear among us that the opinions we disagree with could be instituted in the line, simply because Hasbro is listening?

Maybe it's just me, but I sensed an urge to scream "Don't take away my action features!" when I knew good and well that no one speaking in this thread had that power. Then I realized that subconciously I was thinking that if Hasbro read that people were displeased with what they were doing, then they'd start changing it and I didn't like the changes being suggested. I felt an urge to lash out at the people suggesting those things, even thouh that's an absurd reaction. And perhaps you felt the same way. Perhaps you didn't want the changes people were suggesting. Or perhaps you didn't like the complacency of some fans because it meant things would never become the way you wanted them.

I mean, I don't think anyone's really angry at anyone else just because they have a different opinion. I just think that we might be afraid of what would happen if Hasbro listened to that other person. But fear is the path to the dark side, right :). I mean, it's goofy, but it's true. Fear comes from greed and really, there's no reason for that. We've got at least three more years of these guys and then maybe three more after that. And in that time, there's no reason we won't get everything we've been looking for...all of us. And if not, I don't think personally attacking someone is really worth it. Because, then everyone loses twice.

But that's assuming I'm on to something here. I might be speaking out of the wrong hole :)

stillakid
05-31-2002, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by Chaddymac
I have a thought, so tell me if you disagree. But what strikes me as an issue in threads such as this is a fear that Hasbro is watching. It's a scary thought realizing that we fans, consumers as one member noted, actually have the power to influence this line, now that mass communication is the norm. And we know that Hasbro visits these threads (and I don't think they remain loyal to the "Ask Hasbro" Forum--and you probably don't either). Could it be that there is a fear among us that the opinions we disagree with could be instituted in the line, simply because Hasbro is listening?

Maybe it's just me, but I sensed an urge to scream "Don't take away my action features!" when I knew good and well that no one speaking in this thread had that power. Then I realized that subconciously I was thinking that if Hasbro read that people were displeased with what they were doing, then they'd start changing it and I didn't like the changes being suggested. I felt an urge to lash out at the people suggesting those things, even thouh that's an absurd reaction. And perhaps you felt the same way. Perhaps you didn't want the changes people were suggesting. Or perhaps you didn't like the complacency of some fans because it meant things would never become the way you wanted them.

I mean, I don't think anyone's really angry at anyone else just because they have a different opinion. I just think that we might be afraid of what would happen if Hasbro listened to that other person. But fear is the path to the dark side, right :). I mean, it's goofy, but it's true. Fear comes from greed and really, there's no reason for that. We've got at least three more years of these guys and then maybe three more after that. And in that time, there's no reason we won't get everything we've been looking for...all of us. And if not, I don't think personally attacking someone is really worth it. Because, then everyone loses twice.

But that's assuming I'm on to something here. I might be speaking out of the wrong hole :)

"I sense it too. :)

It's true, for me at least. I believe that Hasbro pays attention to some of the messages on the boards. I remember a while back, someone posted about how easy it was to find bins full of Comm Tech Troopers at $2 a pop. I piped in really fast because I didn't want Hasbro to get the wrong idea that these things were readily available to everyone at any time. They need to know that one store's peg warmer is another one's scalper bait.

This is also the reason I continue to bang my drum against making ships and playsets in compartmentalized pieces. I really don't believe that they'd sell so well to the broad market. With as few ships and playsets as we get, I'd rather they not waste their time catering to just a few collectors and instead devote the effort to pleasing a larger range of consumer.

Are they listening really? Who knows? But, just like religious folk, we'd better act like they do just in case! ;)

JON9000
05-31-2002, 02:55 PM
I know it would be difficult to make, but I think a Destroyer Droid with an action feature might be cool. Press a little button on the back and the arms would pump in a firing motion. Probably too difficult to pull off though! But I'm sure Hasbro listens! If they didn't, even Duros would have been pumped up on 'roids like the first waves. Our opinions count!

Chaddymac
05-31-2002, 07:36 PM
I like that, JON. In fact, I think they could do a transforming 3.75" DD (they do make Transformers, afterall). Maybe that's what we can expect from the Deluxe Destroyer (has anyone seen pics???)

But pumping action would rock too.

JediTricks
06-01-2002, 05:36 AM
I know Hasbro is looking at this stuff, and I know that if someone has a valid point to make, others will agree and Hasbro may take notice of that.

If people didn't complain about the "steroid" look of the '95 POTF2 figures, Count Dooku figures would look more like Conan the Barbarian than Christopher Lee.

If an issue doesn't have validity, others won't flock to that issue and Hasbro will see that too. If someone posts "I think there are too many colors on naked C-3PO" and it doesn't get many responses, that will tell Hasbro that few people agree on that point.

LTBasker
06-01-2002, 10:02 AM
Originally posted by JediTricks
If people didn't complain about the "steroid" look of the '95 POTF2 figures, Count Dooku figures would look more like Conan the Barbarian than Christopher Lee.

Whoa, when I saw the "Conan" part I thought you were gonna say O'Brien.. :eek:

Hasbro may read the boards, but how much is actually taken into consideration? From alot of stuff that's gone on, I'd guess not alot. :rolleyes:

Chaddymac
06-01-2002, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by JediTricks
If an issue doesn't have validity, others won't flock to that issue and Hasbro will see that too. If someone posts "I think there are too many colors on naked C-3PO" and it doesn't get many responses, that will tell Hasbro that few people agree on that point.

I agree, but when an issue attracts a lot of response (like this one) with an argument being represented on both sides with differences that don't seem to be resolvable, who does Hasbro listen to? I think that's the question people ask themselves and I think that's why the subject is being so hotly debated. People want to make sure that Hasbro hears their side AND listens to what they have to say.

That's my theory, anyway, which probably didn't need to be posted again. But what're ya gonna do?:D

maulreborn
06-02-2002, 08:26 PM
I seems Hasbro enjoy making totally unnecesary figures and repeating again and again the same characters in similar poses instead of making unreleased figures. Here they are the new ones coming:

Anakin Skywalker Tatooine Attack ( second HD Anakin from a future serie of 10000000000000......)
Darth Maul Sith Training ( Hasbro: Maul is dead!!!!)
Destroyer Droid - Arena Battle (We have the EP1 version)
Jango Fett - Slave I Pilot (AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARG!!!)
Ki-Adi Mundi, Jedi Master (We have the EP1 version)
Tusken Raider with Massiff ( I cant believe this!!)
Watto - Mos Espa Junk Dealer ( we really need an EP2 Watto?)


Deluxe ( need comments???)

Anakin Skywalker with Force Flipping Action
Flying Geonosian
Yoda with Force Powers

BlahBlahBlah
06-02-2002, 08:46 PM
Originally posted by maulreborn
I seems Hasbro enjoy making totally unnecesary figures and repeating again and again the same characters in similar poses instead of making unreleased figures. Here they are the new ones coming:

Anakin Skywalker Tatooine Attack ( second HD Anakin from a future serie of 10000000000000......)
Darth Maul Sith Training ( Hasbro: Maul is dead!!!!)
Destroyer Droid - Arena Battle (We have the EP1 version)
Jango Fett - Slave I Pilot (AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARG!!!)
Ki-Adi Mundi, Jedi Master (We have the EP1 version)
Tusken Raider with Massiff ( I cant believe this!!)
Watto - Mos Espa Junk Dealer ( we really need an EP2 Watto?)


Deluxe ( need comments???)

Anakin Skywalker with Force Flipping Action
Flying Geonosian
Yoda with Force Powers

About the destroyer droid and Ki Adi- you may have them, but some may not. Also, besides the sniper Tusken, when was the last time we saw a Tusken of any kind? Yeah, we got a mom. That's great for play. I never even saw the Tusken sniper, along with a lot of the POTJ line.

More Anakins are to be expected. We'll be seeing tons of those until 2005, when they start pumping out episode 3 Anakins by the truckfull. Same with Jango, though I doubt we'll see an ep 3 version of him, unless we get a rotting corpse. (Hey, that sounds like a good custom-- just kidding:D )

Beast
06-02-2002, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by maulreborn
I seems Hasbro enjoy making totally unnecesary figures and repeating again and again the same characters in similar poses instead of making unreleased figures. Here they are the new ones coming:
Anakin Skywalker Tatooine Attack ( second HD Anakin from a future serie of 10000000000000......)
Darth Maul Sith Training ( Hasbro: Maul is dead!!!!)
Destroyer Droid - Arena Battle (We have the EP1 version)
Jango Fett - Slave I Pilot (AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARG!!!)
Ki-Adi Mundi, Jedi Master (We have the EP1 version)
Tusken Raider with Massiff ( I cant believe this!!)
Watto - Mos Espa Junk Dealer ( we really need an EP2 Watto?)
Deluxe ( need comments???)
Anakin Skywalker with Force Flipping Action
Flying Geonosian
Yoda with Force Powers
They seem to be unnecissary in your mind, but not everyone is you. Main charecters will always get new versions, since Hasbro has to keep the line fresh, as new people are getting into it. As for the figures you are specifically complaing about. Here is my opinions on them.

Anakin Skywalker: Tatooine Attack - A non gimmick version of the Jedi Anakin figure. This should make alot of people happy that don't like the Hanger Duel version. Also comes with a tusken rifle, gaffi stick, and what looks to be the fram his mom was tied to. Nice well done figure, that should fit in his speeder.

Darth Maul: Sith Training - Sure, you don't like it. But alot of people still are huge Maul fans. I would rather see them do a concept version like this one, then a boring E1 version again. Plus it comes with a highly accurate Sith Prode Droid. Cool Beans!

Destroyer Droid: Arena Battle - Yeah, there was an E1 version or two. But not everyone got them, it was 3 years ago ya know. Plus they weren't exactly movie accurate. Hopefully this version has the extended middle eye, like was shown on the droids in the movie.

Jango Fett: Slave I Pilot - This figure is a good idea, he does have a headset type of thing he wears while flying the Slave 1. Toss in the tracking device that Obi-Wan tosses onto the side of the Slave 1 and you have a great figure. :)

Ki-Adi Mundi: Jedi Master - Again, the E1 figure came out 3 years ago. And not everyone bought him, because he was a boring Jedi guy that just sat on his keister in the Council Chambers. The new one looks better sculpted, and has the correct color lightsaber.

Tusken Raider with Massiff - An army builder, you can always use another Tusken Raider for diorama's or display. Army builders like variety in the poses and looks of the figures. And with a removable head feature, and Massiff w/ bone, he should be pretty cool looking.

Watto: Mos Espa Junk Dealer - Yes, we need an E2 Watto. He's in a different outfit from the E1 version. And they could always pack in 1 or 2 of those pit droids from that cancelled Pit Droids 3-pack.

As for the deluxe figure, why not a force flipping Ani to go with Obi and Dooku. They get to have fun, why shouldn't Ani. As for the Geonosian, hopefully he will have wing flapping action, and come with the sonic blaster that the warriors had in the movie. And finally, we could always use second less posed Yoda. Maybe they will give him soft goods, for added value. Toss in a section of the hanger w/ that pillar that Dooku tries to drop on Ani and Obi, and he's cool. :cool: :D

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

JediTricks
06-02-2002, 10:30 PM
Basker, the "magnets as the Force" thing was mentioned on the SSG forums about 2 and a half years ago, I don't know for sure if Hasbro saw that, but I never saw a demand for that anywhere else (and in my defense, I did say that they should be STRONG magnets :D).


Originally posted by Chaddymac
...but when an issue attracts a lot of response (like this one) with an argument being represented on both sides with differences that don't seem to be resolvable, who does Hasbro listen to? I think that's the question people ask themselves and I think that's why the subject is being so hotly debated. People want to make sure that Hasbro hears their side AND listens to what they have to say.
This is just a guess, but Hasbro probably won't listen to either since the title isn't that specific, and because there's plenty of confusion between the posts going back and forth on an issue. I don't think personal attacks will get Hasbro to side with the attacker though, so I truly don't understand the bickering and slander and stereotyping that goes on with these situations. Pretty much nobody at Hasbro or in the adult world is going to take that type of behavior as a superior message seriously.


Basically, like JJB points out, it's about personal tastes. If you have to resort to stereotyping others and trashing them instead of discussing a point rationally based on your point of view, how can you expect others to take your point of view seriously, especially when some day, you might end up on the other end of an issue?

Chaddymac
06-03-2002, 12:22 AM
They sound really cool to me, actually. We had a Geonosian with Massif, why not a Tusken? And all those other figures have me pretty excited too. After his fantastic duel in episode II, I can't wait to see what a deluxe Yoda looks like. And in all honesty, they REALLY need a force flipping Yoda! He did the most flipping of anyone!

BizRodian
06-03-2002, 02:39 AM
Yeah, all those new toys are great I think... I've been rather disapointed with about 50% of the Saga line, but these choices aren't bad ones. You might have a Ki Adi or a Destroyer Droid, but some don't. Kids don't... they're in this movie and they should get new toys.

I agree with you on the size issue though. The picture you showed looks like each figure doesn't belong in the same line. I appreceate that Dooku is tall, but I don't think he should be THAT tall. Obi Wan is waaaay too short. They could have done a better job definitly.

I don't want 100% neutral poses... but I don't want ones that are totally wacky like Mace's. I like Saesee Tinn, he's ready for battle... you can tell... but he's not screaming his head off. You can still move him around to do stuff. Deluxe Mace is pretty much stuck in one pose... that's a no no.

The figures not fitting in the vehicles are terrible. I have never had this problem with any other Star Wars toys. None of the POTF2 ones at all. They all worked great for me. I was pretty much in shock when I tried to put Zam in her speeder and just realised that doing so would be IMPOSSIBLE. What the hell were they thinking?

I don't mind the action features if they are well done. For example, I think Zam's arm is a little annoying, but the magnet is strong, it doesn't limit possability in the least. Her quick draw action doesn't make it impossible to move her arm either. THAT is a good action feature... Count Dooku on the other hand... what the hell? his slashing action feels cheap and like you'll break it any minute... and it limits the movement of his arm. That's a bad action feature. Personally, I'd rather just have more accessorys packed in opposed to action features. I think kids would rather this to. I know I did when I was a kid.

maulreborn
06-03-2002, 09:41 AM
Originally posted by JarJarBinks

They seem to be unnecissary in your mind, but not everyone is you. Main charecters will always get new versions, since Hasbro has to keep the line fresh, as new people are getting into it. As for the figures you are specifically complaing about. Here is my opinions on them.

Anakin Skywalker: Tatooine Attack - A non gimmick version of the Jedi Anakin figure. This should make alot of people happy that don't like the Hanger Duel version. Also comes with a tusken rifle, gaffi stick, and what looks to be the fram his mom was tied to. Nice well done figure, that should fit in his speeder.

Darth Maul: Sith Training - Sure, you don't like it. But alot of people still are huge Maul fans. I would rather see them do a concept version like this one, then a boring E1 version again. Plus it comes with a highly accurate Sith Prode Droid. Cool Beans!

Destroyer Droid: Arena Battle - Yeah, there was an E1 version or two. But not everyone got them, it was 3 years ago ya know. Plus they weren't exactly movie accurate. Hopefully this version has the extended middle eye, like was shown on the droids in the movie.

Jango Fett: Slave I Pilot - This figure is a good idea, he does have a headset type of thing he wears while flying the Slave 1. Toss in the tracking device that Obi-Wan tosses onto the side of the Slave 1 and you have a great figure. :)

Ki-Adi Mundi: Jedi Master - Again, the E1 figure came out 3 years ago. And not everyone bought him, because he was a boring Jedi guy that just sat on his keister in the Council Chambers. The new one looks better sculpted, and has the correct color lightsaber.

Tusken Raider with Massiff - An army builder, you can always use another Tusken Raider for diorama's or display. Army builders like variety in the poses and looks of the figures. And with a removable head feature, and Massiff w/ bone, he should be pretty cool looking.

Watto: Mos Espa Junk Dealer - Yes, we need an E2 Watto. He's in a different outfit from the E1 version. And they could always pack in 1 or 2 of those pit droids from that cancelled Pit Droids 3-pack.

As for the deluxe figure, why not a force flipping Ani to go with Obi and Dooku. They get to have fun, why shouldn't Ani. As for the Geonosian, hopefully he will have wing flapping action, and come with the sonic blaster that the warriors had in the movie. And finally, we could always use second less posed Yoda. Maybe they will give him soft goods, for added value. Toss in a section of the hanger w/ that pillar that Dooku tries to drop on Ani and Obi, and he's cool. :cool: :D

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks


I'm starting to think you're employed at Hasbro!!!

pthfnder89
06-03-2002, 09:55 AM
Originally posted by Chaddymac
They sound really cool to me, actually. We had a Geonosian with Massif, why not a Tusken? And all those other figures have me pretty excited too. After his fantastic duel in episode II, I can't wait to see what a deluxe Yoda looks like. And in all honesty, they REALLY need a force flipping Yoda! He did the most flipping of anyone!


Lol, absolutely true Chaddymac. Where is our flipping Yoda?! :)

The Flipping Anakin is the only figure off this list that I see as unnecessary, and I probably won't buy him. The other flipping figures aren't that great (although they aren't too bad either) but with several other versions of him already out and still to come I definitely don't need this Anakin.:)

LTBasker
06-03-2002, 10:02 AM
I dunno about the whole flipping thing, I tried flipping my Obi-Wan when I opened him and I had opened Deluxe Mace before him so on the first flip Obi got catapaulted to the right and landed right on Mace. :sur:

stillakid
06-03-2002, 12:04 PM
Originally posted by BizRodian
Personally, I'd rather just have more accessorys packed in opposed to action features. I think kids would rather this to. I know I did when I was a kid.

My kid enjoys shooting the little darts more than playing with "slashing action." That goes for the ships too.

maulreborn
06-03-2002, 03:18 PM
to JarJarBinks
"This should make alot of people happy that don't like the Hanger Duel version"

I have to say:

Making an awful figure is no excuse to do this same figure later, they should make well at first. I think Habro first makes awful sculpts of characters to be sure people will buy the improved version, people like me, for example.

Beast
06-03-2002, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by maulreborn
to JarJarBinks
"This should make alot of people happy that don't like the Hanger Duel version"
I have to say:
Making an awful figure is no excuse to do this same figure later, they should make well at first. I think Habro first makes awful sculpts of characters to be sure people will buy the improved version, people like me, for example.
Again, the opinion that the Hanger Duel version is awful, is your opinion. Alot of people like the figure, myself included. The Tatooine version won't have a removable arm, of course...since that doesn't happen until the duel in the hanger w/ Dooku. And it won't have gimmicks, for all the gimmick haters out there. Again, you complain as if Hasbro is forcing you to buy this stuff. If you don't like it, don't buy it...simple as that.

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

maulreborn
06-03-2002, 04:58 PM
Originally posted by JarJarBinks

Again, the opinion that the Hanger Duel version is awful, is your opinion. Alot of people like the figure, myself included. The Tatooine version won't have a removable arm, of course...since that doesn't happen until the duel in the hanger w/ Dooku. And it won't have gimmicks, for all the gimmick haters out there. Again, you complain as if Hasbro is forcing you to buy this stuff. If you don't like it, don't buy it...simple as that.

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

It's not easy, I have been buying everything (POTF2,SOTE, EU, EP1, POTJ) since 1995 and since Ill buy everything in the future is my task to post mi opinions about a work I thing goes to ruin a good colection, and try to they do the best. And by the way, I dont hate HD anakin, I say "awful" because I hate the wheel on his back and the hand movement, they break down (again) a well-scuplted figure. Since 1995 I cant remember such AWFUL feature in any Hasbro SW figure .

LTBasker
06-03-2002, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by JarJarBinks
The Tatooine version won't have a removable arm, of course...since that doesn't happen until the duel in the hanger w/ Dooku. And it won't have gimmicks, for all the gimmick haters out there.

The HD Ani is good except for the gimmicks but the new Anakin coming out is another pre-posed statue so we're not seeing the Anakin we NEED. So while it'll be gimmick free, it won't be free to move.

maulreborn
06-03-2002, 05:14 PM
I have been thinking about this and I believe Hasbro has included on the SAGA those features and new figure actions "inspired" by The Lord of the Rings action figures and try to follow the example to avoid toys competence. I think is only another marketing idea from a marketing "genius" that is damaging a nearly six-years-old collection.

Beast
06-03-2002, 05:21 PM
Originally posted by LTBasker
The HD Ani is good except for the gimmicks but the new Anakin coming out is another pre-posed statue so we're not seeing the Anakin we NEED. So while it'll be gimmick free, it won't be free to move.
I doubt it's a pre-posed statue. You haven't held it in your hands and seen what articulation it has yet. Remember, your one of the people that didn't notice that the Imperial Officer had an articulation point at the base of his gloves. Never judge anything by pictures, you can't always see the articulation in them.

Originally posted by maulreborn
I have been thinking about this and I believe Hasbro has included on the SAGA those features and new figure actions "inspired" by The Lord of the Rings action figures and try to follow the example to avoid toys competence. I think is only another marketing idea from a marketing "genius" that is damaging a nearly six-years-old collection.
Actually, the Star Wars figures were being planned and in production, well before the LOTR's Toys came out. So these features and actions were somthing Hasbro decided to try, to spice the line up. Not because LOTR's figures have play features. Action features on toys have existed since the 70's and 80's. Infact, if it wasn't for the size of the vehicles needed for the Star Wars line, I bet we would have had 5" figures back in the 70's and 80's with the same play action features. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

LTBasker
06-03-2002, 05:30 PM
The Imp. Officer was different, it was only the hand articulation I missed. :p The Tat. Ani all you gotta do is look at the pictures and see that's it too wild to be neutral due to the plastics and pre-posing. HD Ani is an ok neutral figure because his legs aren't too pre-posed so you can just put his arms at his sides and there ya go, it's just that dumb wheel, weak arm and weak "swinging" action that screws it up...

maulreborn
06-03-2002, 05:35 PM
Actually, the Star Wars figures were being planned and in production, well before the LOTR's Toys came out. So these features and actions were somthing Hasbro decided to try, to spice the line up. Not because LOTR's figures have play features. Action features on toys have existed since the 70's and 80's. Infact, if it wasn't for the size of the vehicles needed for the Star Wars line, I bet we would have had 5" figures back in the 70's and 80's with the same play action features. :)

I dont believe it so. What a misterious and suspicious coincidence!!!

LOTR with magnets on Hands ---> SAGA with magnets on Hands
Remember Saruman
LOTR with Slashing action ----> SAGA with Slashing action
Remember Lord of Nazgul and Legolas who has the same Action feature as Dooku by squeezing their legs

Will come Deluxe Yoda with a lighting cane like Gandalf???

LTBasker
06-03-2002, 05:40 PM
Actually the gimmicks in the figures have been around much before the LOTR and Saga figs. early 90's Batman figures even had these gimmicks. Hence "ancient gimmicks."

Starfig873
06-03-2002, 05:45 PM
I suppose I should be shocked and appalled...sheesh. :p

It's 2002, they just wanted to try something new, let it go. It's trial and error, if this stuff doesn't do well, or is complained about they'll do something else. That's all.
I fear you'll give yourself an ulcer if you don't settle down on finding anything possibly wrong with ol' Habro's products. :)

As you just stated action features have existed since the 70s and 80s so saying that the Saga line is copying in some way the LOTR line, is kinda silly.
Now from a marketing standpoint it might have been necessary to follow in the footsteps, and that's business unfortunately.

maulreborn
06-03-2002, 06:19 PM
Originally posted by Starfig873
I suppose I should be shocked and appalled...sheesh. :p

It's 2002, they just wanted to try something new, let it go. It's trial and error, if this stuff doesn't do well, or is complained about they'll do something else. That's all.
I fear you'll give yourself an ulcer if you don't settle down on finding anything possibly wrong with ol' Habro's products. :)

As you just stated action features have existed since the 70s and 80s so saying that the Saga line is copying in some way the LOTR line, is kinda silly.
Now from a marketing standpoint it might have been necessary to follow in the footsteps, and that's business unfortunately.

My friend, you must understand Im not saying Hasbro has copied the features itself ( Im not so silly) but the moment they're launched the SW with these features. In a line of toys with six years of existence, with no such features, when LOTR figures comes with them, Saga also comes with them. I think it's all well explained.

Starfig873
06-03-2002, 09:41 PM
And if they did, it's because they thought it was a good idea. We were all a little iffy about such features added to our little plastic collection. But why bother with such a claim? If something is seen as a good idea or a big seller (for instance the LOTR features) then from a marketing standpoint it would be wise to take a shot at it and include it into your product. Yes? Hasbro is mainly trying to stay up and running as a company. So it's not surprising that the Saga line has these new features at all.

And IMO, most of Hasbro's attempts with the new gimmicks have been fairly successful. Alas it's not all perfect, but when has it ever been? They screw up, they get better. They screw up again, they fix it later on. It's the same cycle over and over. I would hope we'd be used to it. :)

JediTricks
06-04-2002, 11:35 PM
Gimmicky figures were big with Masters of the Universe figures back in the '80s, but IMO the current styles of gimmicky figures comes from Toy Biz and their Marvel lines from the mid-to-late 90s (not the early-90s ones where the only gimmick was a quality spring-loaded waist that could still be posed). Web Traps Spider-Man, Water Torture X-men, and especially the X-men movie toys are the height of gimmicky figures before SAGA collection 1 came down the pike.

bigbarada
06-04-2002, 11:48 PM
Well the original 1978 Luke Skywalker figure was originally designed to have a knob in his back with a spool inside so that his lightsaber could "magically" appear in his hand. After all the prototype sabers kept coming out curved, Kenner dumped the idea and went with the telescoping saber gimmick all of us vintage collectors remember so well. Gimmicks have existed almost as long as toys have existed.

I can see how it would seem odd that LOTR and Ep2 toy lines could come out with such similar features so close to each other; but that's the nature of corporate espionage. One company spies on another company and swipes their ideas. I'm not pointing fingers at the companies, just saying that it has been known to happen. All in the name of business.

LTBasker
06-05-2002, 07:51 AM
I have an X-men figure that has a gun drawing action much like the Zam Wesell one (and the same side. :D) and you can only have his arm posed in the pointing gun, or beside his leg which has the gimmick activated by a button on his back... I remember getting tired of that figure after awhile. ;)

Also remember I had two Spider-Man figures from one of the animated series, one had a spring in his arm with a missile type piece that was grey and on the outer end it looked like webbing and it was attached to a piece of twine which you pulled through his arm and the "web" missile would fire out from a pull of a button so it looked like he was web-slinging and the other one was just a basic Spider-Man figure that was quite articulated - I remember favoring that one over the web-sling one. :D Was only about 5 or 6...

So while some kids may enjoy the gimmicks, others don't, somehow even as kids there was more of a desire to have a regular figure of the character with the correction painting and stuff that could you actually play with in several ways that would also fit in/on their vehicles. Ninja Turtles were great for that... :cool:

Maybe I was just weird. :crazed: ;)

sideswipe1984
06-05-2002, 11:36 AM
In general, I really loathe the gimmicks. Some are alright, but by and large they just serve to ruin, very nice sculpts. For instance, the Bespin Luke or Vader - both incredible sculpts with great detail and accessories. However, the buttons sticking out from their tailbones really take away from the overall appeal of them. What's more, since most of the main characters fall within the Collection 1 designation, trying to secure a 'popular' (i.e. Luke, Han, Anakin, Obi-Wan) character that lacks some sort of wheel or button protruding from them is an exercise in futility. I like peripheral characters (like most of the Collection 2 assortment offers), but at heart, I am still the little kid that I was back in the late 70s/early 80s craving main characters all the time.

It is just a shame, IMO, because I was really jazzed up for the saga line. Sadly, 50% of the line has been somewhat of a disappointment because of these damned gimmicks, and to a lesser extent, the extreme poses. I still enjoy the figures, but not nearly as much as I would have had they given us stylistically-similar figures to POTJ.

And I really don't buy the whole "kids love the action features" garbage. I hated action features as a kid. I also have 3 nephews who collect SW, and they don't care for the buttons or wheels either (although, they do like firing missles).

maulreborn
06-05-2002, 12:40 PM
As you can see, HASBRO defenders, im not the only one who hates action features on the new Saga figures. All this action features may be goos for Deluxe but not for the regular.

MisterPL
06-05-2002, 01:32 PM
Following is a list of character heights taken from the most recent, official Star Wars style guide (Hasbro's bible from Lucasfilm). It's not complete, but it should give us a pretty good idea of how well Hasbro's been doing in the scale department. I'll leave the rest of the math to you, but here's the first part of the equation:

Yoda - .66 meters
Artoo-Detoo - .96 meters
Princess Leia - 1.52 meters
Padmé Amidala - 1.65 meters
See-Threepio - 1.68 meters
Luke Skywalker - 1.72 meters
Darth Maul - 1.75 meters
Obi-Wan Kenobi - 1.79 meters
Jango Fett - 1.83 meters
Clone Troopers - 1.83 meters
Stormtrooper - 1.83 meters
Boba Fett - 1.83 meters
Han Solo - 1.83 meters
Anakin Skywalker (AOTC) - 1.85 meters
Mace Windu - 1.88 meters
Super Battle Droid - 1.91 meters
Count Dooku - 1.93 meters
Darth Vader - 2.03 meters
Chewbacca - 2.29 meters

And here are some vehicle lengths, from shortest to longest:

Anakin's Speeder - 5.09 meters
TIE Fighter - 6.3 meters
Zam's Speeder - 6.61 meters
Jedi Starfighter - 8.00 meters
Vader's TIE Fighter - 9.2 meters
Naboo Starfighter - 12.5 meters
X-wing Fighter - 12.5 meters
Dooku's Solar Sailer - 14.27 meters
Slave I - 21.5 meters
Millennium Falcon - 26.7 meters
Death Star - 120 kilometers

I wish the list included more than this, alas it does not. Feel free to quarrel amongst yourselves. :D

LTBasker
06-05-2002, 04:08 PM
Hasbro doesn't always get accurate information though.

MisterPL
06-05-2002, 06:48 PM
It doesn't matter. These are the OFFICIAL heights of the CHARACTERS, not the ACTORS. Whether Hasbro had the info or not at the time they started work on the line, I don't know. But these are the standards every other licensee is being held to. Why not Hasbro?

Chaddymac
06-05-2002, 11:43 PM
Originally posted by maulreborn
As you can see, HASBRO defenders, im not the only one who hates action features on the new Saga figures. All this action features may be goos for Deluxe but not for the regular.

No one ever said you were alone, maulreborn. But some of us disagree.

I, for one, think that the AOTC Bespin Luke is the best Star Wars figure to date. Great sculpt, great articulation, great accessories, and a pretty well constructed action feature. But some people disagree with me. That's their perogative. I'm not saying that this figure is the definitive best of the line, "No need to argue." I'm just stating my opinion. I'm a HASBRO defender, and I'm proud of that. Although, I'd never shame you for not agreeing with me.