Palpatine: His Motivation?

[stillakid]

On this Memorial Weekend, I got to thinking about the various wars and incursions we've been a part of and what caused them in the first place (Israel/Palestine being the hotbed right now).

I got to wondering, what did Palpatine wish to accomplish anyway? Usually a bid for control is ultimately about money, or fame or repression of a specific population. But we never see Palpatine surrounded by wealth, babes, or going after anyone in particular (except the Jedi, but that's because they stand in his way).

So, was he after something specific, or is it just a Pinky and the Brain style bid to take over the world (Bwah hah hah!) ?

[DarthBrandon]

I think that Palpatine just has a serious beef with the Jedi, and he does have alot of power,Wealth, and fame. Wealth represents all that he can bulid and control ( ie. Death Stars and Star Destoyers ) Power comes from eveything he has at his finger tips (ie. The Fleet , Vader, and being one Bad A** wth the Dark side of the Force (Force Lightning) ) Fame comes from being feared by all in the Galaxy as one bad mo fo.

Best guess is that he just wanted the Jedi out of the way for good.

[Dar' Argol]

I feel this fits in more at the AOTC forum, so I moved it here.

[Lman316]

He's crazy. Plain and simple. Crazy people don't need a motive, they just do stuff they want. :crazed: lol.

But, really, it seems that some people can just get a high from control. And Paply wants things done his way. What person wouldn't want everything done his or her way? I know you, Stillakid, if you had that kind of power, you'd have GL recall TPM and have him redo it, right? :D. So, it's probably control that he's after...

[jjreason]

I think he wants the Sith to be in ultimate power with as few threats (Jedi) and as much protection (Clone army, political control) as he can muster. Mission accomplished. A nice side-benefit of this is the fact that he gets to be Emperor. Not a bad little bit of motivation, either.

[bigbarada]

I think being a Sith means that he basically wants to have exclusive access to the Force. He has had a taste of power and now craves more and more. Remember when Mace states in Ep2 that the Jedis' ability to use the Force was diminished? I think that is Palpatine's ultimate goal, to be the sole controller of the Force. That's why, in order to bring balance to the Force, Palpatine must be destroyed. Which is what Vader does.

If Palpatine was sucking the Force dry when there were 10,000 Jedi alive, imagine how much of it he controlled when it was just Luke, Yoda and Vader.

The Jedi tap into the Force to gain knowledge and aid in defense (anybody who trains hard enough can use a lightsaber, the Jedis' enhanced senses and speed just make them much better at it); but they never take from the Force. In other words they never try to use the Force to obtain power or profit. The Sith are exactly the opposite, they attempt to bleed the Force dry and will even kill their own colleagues just to obtain more power.

Balance wasn't 2 Jedi/2 Sith. It meant that the Sith had to be completely wiped out as their method of using the Force was incompatible with the natural order of things.

Just my ideas on the matter.

[stillakid]

Originally posted by Dar' Argol
I feel this fits in more at the AOTC forum, so I moved it here.

But it doesn't. It was a general question that covers the actions and behavior of the Emperor across all 6 films. That's why it was in the General area, thank you very much. :rolleyes:

[stillakid]

Originally posted by bigbarada
I think being a Sith means that he basically wants to have exclusive access to the Force. He has had a taste of power and now craves more and more. Remember when Mace states in Ep2 that the Jedis' ability to use the Force was diminished? I think that is Palpatine's ultimate goal, to be the sole controller of the Force. That's why, in order to bring balance to the Force, Palpatine must be destroyed. Which is what Vader does.

If Palpatine was sucking the Force dry when there were 10,000 Jedi alive, imagine how much of it he controlled when it was just Luke, Yoda and Vader.

The Jedi tap into the Force to gain knowledge and aid in defense (anybody who trains hard enough can use a lightsaber, the Jedis' enhanced senses and speed just make them much better at it); but they never take from the Force. In other words they never try to use the Force to obtain power or profit. The Sith are exactly the opposite, they attempt to bleed the Force dry and will even kill their own colleagues just to obtain more power.

Balance wasn't 2 Jedi/2 Sith. It meant that the Sith had to be completely wiped out as their method of using the Force was incompatible with the natural order of things.

Just my ideas on the matter.

Ah, that makes sense. I didn't pick up on the "sucking the Force dry" thing. I figured that there had to more to it than just power for powers sake (Pinky and the Brain, any James Bond villian).

And I almost tripped on the keyboard. I didn't recognize you behind that Han mask! ;)

[bigbarada]

Originally posted by stillakid


And I almost tripped on the keyboard. I didn't recognize you behind that Han mask! ;)

Yeah, I found this pic while browsing around on some SW fan pages and thought it was pretty cool. I'll probably be sick of it in a couple of days and go back to my normal face.:)

[Lman316]

Originally posted by bigbarada
Balance wasn't 2 Jedi/2 Sith. It meant that the Sith had to be completely wiped out as their method of using the Force was incompatible with the natural order of things.

That actually makes sense to me now. I used to think it was the 2 Sith/ 2 Jedi thing. But if that's what it was, then the Force was always out of balance, and would continue to be after Palpy died.
'Cause before the only 2 of each thing, there were thousands of Jedi and only 2 Sith. And after, there was 1 Jedi and no Sith.
So, that makes a ton of sense to me.

[jjreason]

I too like that concept. The comic "Rising Stars" deals with a group of superheroes that have to share one lot of power between them, and the survivors grow more powerful as the rest get killed off. The ultimate "survivor" game. I can see the force working that way as well. Exceedingly well thought out, BigBarada.

[Darth_Stevious]

Originally posted by stillakid
On this Memorial Weekend, I got to thinking about the various wars and incursions we've been a part of and what caused them in the first place (Israel/Palestine being the hotbed right now).

I got to wondering, what did Palpatine wish to accomplish anyway? Usually a bid for control is ultimately about money, or fame or repression of a specific population. But we never see Palpatine surrounded by wealth, babes, or going after anyone in particular (except the Jedi, but that's because they stand in his way).

So, was he after something specific, or is it just a Pinky and the Brain style bid to take over the world (Bwah hah hah!) ?

"Are you thinking what I'm thinking Vader?"
"I think so Palpy, but balancing a family and a career. I just don't know if it could work"

I feel Palpatine's motivation is political power. All of his actions in the past two films have been to gain as much legitimate political power as he can get. The emphasis being on legitimate power. He isn't simply content to usurp the power of the Senate or grab power in a military coup. He wants the power to be given to him willingly.

"Quiet Vader, I need to make my plans for tonight."
"What are we going to do tonight Palpy?"
"The same thing we do every night Vader. Try to take over the Universe."

[stillakid]

Originally posted by Darth_Stevious


"Are you thinking what I'm thinking Vader?"
"I think so Palpy, but balancing a family and a career. I just don't know if it could work"

I feel Palpatine's motivation is political power. All of his actions in the past two films have been to gain as much legitimate political power as he can get. The emphasis being on legitimate power. He isn't simply content to usurp the power of the Senate or grab power in a military coup. He wants the power to be given to him willingly.

"Quiet Vader, I need to make my plans for tonight."
"What are we going to do tonight Palpy?"
"The same thing we do every night Vader. Try to take over the Universe."

Yeah, power, I got it. But for what? Money, fame, women?

[Darth_Stevious]

Originally posted by stillakid


Yeah, power, I got it. But for what? Money, fame, women?

Power is his motivation. He wants power for power's sake. As we have seen in the past few films he seems to enjoy pulling the strings and making people do what he wants. I believe that he wants to rule the Universe and control it the same way he does the Senate.
Why this thirst for power and control? Perhaps he was picked on a lot as a child. Perhaps his mother didn't breast feed him. Perhaps he had a domineering father. The world may never know.

[stillakid]

Originally posted by Darth_Stevious


Power is his motivation. He wants power for power's sake. As we have seen in the past few films he seems to enjoy pulling the strings and making people do what he wants. I believe that he wants to rule the Universe and control it the same way he does the Senate.
Why this thirst for power and control? Perhaps he was picked on a lot as a child. Perhaps his mother didn't breast feed him. Perhaps he had a domineering father. The world may never know.

So you're favoring the Pinky and the Brain/James Bond Villian Motivation?

[Laserbrain]

That's why, in order to bring balance to the Force, Palpatine must be destroyed. Which is what Vader does.
***********************************************

Whoa...hey...thanks for stating that, I've been trying to put that into words ever since TPM...

Did this come to you with the help of the EU? Them novels are a good read...like textbooks, they are....

[Darth_Stevious]

Originally posted by stillakid


So you're favoring the Pinky and the Brain/James Bond Villian Motivation?

Pretty much, yep.

[Darkross]

Originally posted by bigbarada
I think being a Sith means that he basically wants to have exclusive access to the Force. He has had a taste of power and now craves more and more. Remember when Mace states in Ep2 that the Jedis' ability to use the Force was diminished? I think that is Palpatine's ultimate goal, to be the sole controller of the Force. That's why, in order to bring balance to the Force, Palpatine must be destroyed. Which is what Vader does.

If Palpatine was sucking the Force dry when there were 10,000 Jedi alive, imagine how much of it he controlled when it was just Luke, Yoda and Vader.

The Jedi tap into the Force to gain knowledge and aid in defense (anybody who trains hard enough can use a lightsaber, the Jedis' enhanced senses and speed just make them much better at it); but they never take from the Force. In other words they never try to use the Force to obtain power or profit. The Sith are exactly the opposite, they attempt to bleed the Force dry and will even kill their own colleagues just to obtain more power.

Balance wasn't 2 Jedi/2 Sith. It meant that the Sith had to be completely wiped out as their method of using the Force was incompatible with the natural order of things.

Just my ideas on the matter.

I agree with you...good theory and one that I feel is more in line with how the force is balanced.

[OriginalBryGuy]

Stillakid,

You know, I got flamed on a forum for the exact same question. Why does Palpatine want to controlt the galaxy anyway? Who killed his love, or mother to make him turn to the dark side? haha.

At the time I got flamed as die hard fans said simply, "Evil is evil, it doesn't have to have a motive" to which I simply say, "Whateva"

Good storytelling should fill in those blanks and sadly Lucas hasn't owned up to that one. I've asked myself the same question for years with no avail.

[stillakid]

Originally posted by OriginalBryGuy
Stillakid,

You know, I got flamed on a forum for the exact same question. Why does Palpatine want to controlt the galaxy anyway? Who killed his love, or mother to make him turn to the dark side? haha.

At the time I got flamed as die hard fans said simply, "Evil is evil, it doesn't have to have a motive" to which I simply say, "Whateva"

Good storytelling should fill in those blanks and sadly Lucas hasn't owned up to that one. I've asked myself the same question for years with no avail.

I agree with you 100%. For cartoons, it's alright to have an evil genius whose only wish is to "take over the world." But what does that really mean? What do you do with it once you've got it?

I like BB's theory and it makes the most sense out the alternatives, but again, once he gets control of the Force, what's the point? So he can move stuff around without touching it better than anybody else. Then what? :confused:

[JediTricks]

I think Palpatine also wants power over the galaxy so he can reshape it to fit his whims - humans in power over aliens, him in charge of the whole thing. I think it's more complicated than "I want it all", he may even at one point have thought this was the right thing to do, and that could have led him down his dark path. Good intentions pave the path to hell, even Hitler believed in his ravings were for the best.

[stillakid]

Originally posted by JediTricks
I think Palpatine also wants power over the galaxy so he can reshape it to fit his whims - humans in power over aliens, him in charge of the whole thing. I think it's more complicated than "I want it all", he may even at one point have thought this was the right thing to do, and that could have led him down his dark path. Good intentions pave the path to hell, even Hitler believed in his ravings were for the best.

I think I'm headed down that road. ;) Well, at least some people here do.:sur:

[chewie]

Palpatine became the ruler of the known universe. I think that would be the greatest of accomplishments right there. No need for any further gains once you own everything that is perceptible.

However, in RotJ, his next goals were quite obvious. Smashing the threat of the rebellion, and I think, trying to gain immortality and not the kind of immortality of being a statue from a bygone era. Why would the emporer want Luke to become his apprentice and kill Vader? If Palpatine was a sith that believed in handing down the master/apprentice relationship, he would have insisted on Luke being detained in prison until Palp's died from natural/unnatural causes. Which apparently didn't seem that long from then by the looks of him in RotJ. IMO, he thought that if he killed Luke or if Luke joined him, that he would not die and thus become immortal by escaping fate. Now if he had succeeded in ruling the universe AND escaping death and becoming a living god by becoming immortal, what exactly else could you possibly want? :)

[Darth Nihilus]

Being a sith lord, Palpatine was bred to hate. What caused that we do not know. As for his current political plays - he wants to wipe out the Jedi. The best way to do that is turn the means of power in the galaxy against them (the Senate), to do that he needs to control it. Through the senate he got an army of incomparable size even the Jedi, nor any dissident forces could resist.

But going back to his ulterior motives, the enmity he fosters against mankind in general. Bummed if I know.

[bigbarada]

Originally posted by Laserbrain
That's why, in order to bring balance to the Force, Palpatine must be destroyed. Which is what Vader does.
***********************************************

Whoa...hey...thanks for stating that, I've been trying to put that into words ever since TPM...

Did this come to you with the help of the EU? Them novels are a good read...like textbooks, they are....

If you ever bought the 2000 re-release of the OT (the one where they officially rename Star Wars as Episode IV: A New Hope) there is an Ep2 preview at the beginning of Ep4's video. On it they interview GL and he states that Anakin brings about balance in ROTJ by "doing away with evil in the universe." That's where I got it. Straight from the horse's mouth.:)

[Darth_Stevious]

They added the title of Episode 4: A New Hope long before the 2000 re-release. I have a boxed set from 1991 that has the title in the opening crawl. I have heard that it was added for either the 1 year anniversary re-release in 78 or the re-release in 80 leading up to The Empire Strikes Back which opened with the Episode 5 title in the crawl.

[darthvyn]

there is no balance when palpatine is destroyed, there is just the light side of the force, no dark... that's not balance... i would like to fully hear what lucas said on the matter of doing away with evil, BB, if you could maybe post the entire sentence...

i do agree, however, with the diminished power of the jedi... as i have stated in other threads, i feel that like, with 5000 jedi using the light side of the force to do 5000 different things, and only two sith using the dark side, the light side comes out diluted, and the dark side comes out powerful, of one purpose.

as for palpatines motivations, we get hints to that in anakin's political views... he wants order and the only way he sees that happening is by one person taking control. i think this was what palpatine's original motivations were... to bring order to what he saw as chaos. but the dark side corrupts that view, and with some power, he wants more and more, until it's just about conquest, not order.

[Jedi Clint]

Balance has nothing to do with how many Jedi vs Sith there are. Palpatine pushed the force out of it's utopian balance, and when he is destroyed, it is able to return to that balance.

[darthvyn]

i'm not saying jedi versus sith. it's bigger than that, but it obviously concerns both of them... what i'm getting at is like yin-yang, light and dark, two sides of a coin. that's balance. yin is not balance. that is why i feel that the balance prophecy will be fulfilled in ep III. if palpatine already "pushed" the force out of balance, somehow, then why does he have all the jedi killed? seems to me, he really wouldn't need to. i think this is trying to make the prophecy sound like a good thing, and to affirm the fact that good is balance, but i don't see it that way. and with the obvious parallels to samauri, i would think that the idea of a yin-yang balance would also be quite at home in the star wars universe. i may be wrong, but that's the way i feel about it. that's all any of us can say. if anyone can truly say that they are right, i'd like to see it.

[Jedi Clint]

I agree with the yin-yang principle, but I apply it differently. The impact Palpatine has on everything makes negativity the more dominant aspect of life for everyone. He want's the Jedi dead, because the are a threat to his power base. IMO power is it's own reward, but I bet Palpatine is EXTREMELY wealthy in the OT.

[bigbarada]

Originally posted by Darth_Stevious
They added the title of Episode 4: A New Hope long before the 2000 re-release. I have a boxed set from 1991 that has the title in the opening crawl. I have heard that it was added for either the 1 year anniversary re-release in 78 or the re-release in 80 leading up to The Empire Strikes Back which opened with the Episode 5 title in the crawl.

The subtitle Ep4: A New Hope was added in the 1978 rerelease. However, on all video releases until 2000 it was simply titled Star Wars on the cover, even the SEs. That was what I was referring to. It is also the set where the covers were designed to match the Ep1 video.

Darthvyn - that was pretty much the entire quote, GL didn't really elaborate as is usual with him. I don't think he had the yin-yang thing in mind when he defined balance. Which is fine by me since I don't subscribe to the yin-yang philosophy anyway.

[billfremore]

Anakin does bring balance to the force.
In TPM, Jedis are everywhere and arrogant and confident in their abilities and station in the universe.

Anakin along with Palpatine "humble" the Jedi and thin their number considerably (this is speculation as we won't know for 3 years)

The darkside then reigns for the first time in 1000 years.

Then Anakin/Vader destroys Palpatine ending the current threat of the darkside.

I admit it's not a textbook definition of balance but I think it works...

...from a certain point of view ;)

[JediTricks]

I don't think it's a yin/yang thing, I don't think there have to be 2 sith and 2 jedi to have this balance, I think it has more to do with the power of the Force and how it's being corrupted to cause greater and greater evil and suffering. The more powerful the Sith get over 1000 years, the more they can cause life forms everywhere to suffer pain and dispare. Only when those that hoist EXTRA evil on the universe via the Force succeed can the Force be put out of balance.

[steve3p0]

i hope to see more explanation of "the balance of the force" as well as explanations on Palpatine's motivations in e3.

actually, i'm hoping Palpatine will be the central character of e3. (his motivations, rise to power, explanations on why he did this and that and his revealing of himself to be the dark lord of the sith. )

[darthvyn]

the fact remains that in ROJ, there is no mention of vader/anakin bringing balance to the force, therefore if this plot device doesn't take place in ep III, it kind of dangles...

[saladin]

well lets look at this way, i believe all great dictator want's is more power, you get more power from having more subjects. Palp just wanted power rom the universe and the force.

[stillakid]

well lets look at this way, i believe all great dictator want's is more power, you get more power from having more subjects. Palp just wanted power rom the universe and the force.

...to have and/or do what? Palpatine surrounds himself with ugly old men, not hot chicks in bikinis or even sports spaceships (cars). Granted, he's got the ultimate in mansions, a massive spacestation capable of blowing up the "Jones'" if they somehow get more than him, but is that what it comes down to? Simple ego and greed? Can a single human be capable of such a thing?

If so, then I would find it genuinely interesting to learn and see how Palpatine grew up. Was he sexually and/or emotionally abused as a child? Did he watch "immigrants" (ala Mexicans in the US) given unearned government benefits? Was he orphaned?

What causes someone to become so inherently evil that unmitigated power becomes the obsession regardless of what it can bring. Palps didn't surround himself with naked sex slaves or luxurious surroundings. This quest for "power" ... is it enough to be a motivation and one's purpose in life?